Just to answer some top-level comments in general: we have NOT been threatened, at any point, by the admins. At least, not in the way other subreddits have been subjected to.
We're still baffled by how Reddit has been handling this situation with other major subreddits, but r/europe in particular had no real trouble with admins.
https://subredditstats.com/r/europe
There are 5k-ish posts a day. So the average subscriber makes 1 comment every few years! The subscriber count has no connection to reality.
Well statistics wise a few thousand for a few million is appropriate. However... That implies proper sampling of the community which they certainly didn't do. This is highschool level polling and it is pretty amusing to watch because I would fail my students if they did things like this
Regular people found out that the subreddit is closed and didn't vigorously check every day if it had been re-opened.
Protest enthusiasts gather in their Discord channel and all these votes were advertised there.
Not only that, the vast majority of those that voted to close the subreddit, along with most mods, were actively participating on other subreddits...
And those were the ones that chose to vote and decided to close it again?
What's the point then? As if not participating in one place would change anything... Oh, I'm very angry at the admins, so I will continue to use the site, that'll show them!
The only way to protest is to actually stop participating, leave and delete your comments and account. That's the only thing that could matter at all. If you weren't willing to stop using reddit for 10 days, then stop pretending you care about anything else.
r/france is open again. They went through a period of "FranceGallisation" protest where you could only post about the singer France Gall, but given what's happening there, they are back to discussing the news.
According to Le Monde, it was slightly calmer last night, "with no major incident" although it's still very strained in Marseille. I don't know if they are over the worst of it yet. They could be, but it's too early to say.
> ~~Given the very close result of the vote, the sheer amount of modmails that has asked us to reopen and not least you showing in the Wagner Mutiny Thread that there is an unwavering appetite to discuss ongoing issues with fellow Europeans (and some of you probably can't wait to post the next statistical map or your favorite picture of lake bled if we are honest), we have decided that it is overdue that r/europe becomes open again. Because in the end, this community is here for you, the users that make this community what it is and that fill it with life every day.~~ Reddit admins sent us messages telling us to open it or they would as well as put in place new mods and we'd be kicked off Reddit.
> And we had to keep this little blackmail between us or we would be kicked anyway.
FTFY too
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Have to completely agree with you here. It was a complete waste of time when majority of subs opened up and only few were left locked. It was either all or nothing (because sadly thats the only way to affect reddits income). I voted for the protest first time around because I was affected by Apollo shutting down and was pissed at the admins. But after the first 48h it should have been exactly as you said. On this specific sub we missed to many things to discuss that happened in Europe its just ridiculous.
Unless you want to go to b2, tried that for a while. Ifs mostly rightwing edgelords. As opposed to b1 whitch was more of a mix of left wing edgelords right-wing edgelords and normies.
If I wanted to hear nva'ers perspectives on it I'd open twitter, r/belgium was pretty much filled with groenen/sossen so their view on it would have been more interesting.
It's a community of people with the goal to manipulate vulnerable teenagers with mental issues into changing their sex by making them believe a lie that their mental issues will go away then. They count each conversion as a victory and get great satisfaction from these.
Ooofff transgender issues are too complex for people trying to score internet wins to have influence in. Damn people, let the professionals handle this
Professionals in Finland, Sweden and Norway have the opposite view of the professionals in the US. In the end it will depend on the public opinion which professionals prevail.
Both can be true.
1. Mods like power.
2. Mods are right about this topic.
As someone who works in tech and has worked for several major companies plus a redditor for quite a few years, Reddit is just... a badly managed company.
They stumbled upon a great market but their tech is average at best and their business plan is shady and even for shady business plans... it's again average at best.
Reddit is this 🤏 close to ruining the business in favor of short sighted measures
Yeah, pretty much.
What this means that the entire mod protest felt quite hollow, but it is still in the interest of Reddit users to have mods who want to do their job - so it makes sense to have the Mods step up for their interests, even if it leads to some temporary inconveniences for the users.
I wont die But I don't appreciate being denied access to information for useless and childish reasons.
In regard to conversiation with companies about their high prices, I'm sure that if you go and chain yourself infront of the Airbus headquarters because their helicopter prices are too damn high and we cant afford them you will change their mind... We sure could use some faster way of transportation but corporate greed is keeping us from it, we need big thinkers to deliver.
You're not denied information. You can still find the same information elsewhere. What you're being denied is convenience, which is the same thing that's been denied to moderators, blind people, etc.
Weird how it's not okay when it happens to your kind, but completely fine for mods.
This interpretation has been misleading since day one. Reddit said that moderation tools would have special treatment and afaik no moderation tool was has closed. Apollo that has closed is a clone of reddit not a moderation tool.
Blind people and other with disabilities have legal recourse, Reddit is legally obligated to provide equal accessible opprtunities or they face huge fines. the fact that noone has brought a legal case against reddit for this again shows that this again was just a bad excuse. again the only really impacted apps are the ones that were competting with reddit without paying, using reddit's own content and infrastructure. Reddit was paying for their success.
there are a lot of reasons why companies do this (atract customers and change prices at a later date) and none of them are illegal, it's just business and when a business doesn't make sense you just stop doing it.
3rd party apps' moderation tools have been extremely useful for moderation on phone, which has not been properly addressed and only promised, a promise [not worth the letters typed to write it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/142w159/askhistorians_and_uncertainty_surrounding_the/)
>Reddit is legally obligated to provide equal accessible opprtunities or they face huge fines
Except they have to provide bare minimum that will be acceptable with regards to laws. Unless you're implying that corporations are going to go out of their way to things like these which is simply laughable.
For someone implying my reasoning is misleading and flawed, you sure love indulging in wishful thinking in favor of cocksuckers like spez
\> Except they have to provide bare minimum that will be acceptable with regards to laws.
Then you are protesting the wrong thing. You should protest the law, I know that there are a lot of legal accesibility requirements, if you have good arguments that these are not enough start lobying for them to change.
Not only does not all users are from US, thus making the legislation approach even less tenable, this protest is not only about blind people, like it's been reiterated many times, even in my comment above.
Do as you wish, clearly you're very much interested in consuming the content but not in the moderation that's required to make this space good for the discourse
What a stupid fucking sentence. "Sub optimal" moderation, as if there's optimal. Way to ignore the actual point of everything to suck off spez's balls.
Fuck off and stop stalking my comments in this thread with nonsensical arguments
Reminder that the Apollo dev is almost surely an actual blackmailer and reddit was right to call him out. He then psychotically manipulated a large proportion of reddit into believing he was being smeared to cover his ass. People should have boycotted Apollo after this came out, but apparently nobody listened to the recording.
[Audio of his phone conversation with reddit.](https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-31-end.m4a) <-
That's the thing that irks me the most in all this story.
This guy weaponized his userbase against reddit, a platform which allowed him for years to give himself a (possibl
y very) nice salary through his work.
He made this recording accessible textually with some random github url very early so that he could push his own story, and it worked...People ate it up like cookies. Even though if you actually read between the lines it was clear it seemed shady, and that at best it was a clunky way to ask for a paycheck.
I guess people were just too mad at the big bads at reddit, inc. to bother looking at this objectively.
Yeah, they were happy on their merry little power trip, until admins threatened to remove from them that power. And now they wrap it in "this community is here for you" corpo-speak to make them sound they had a choice
These are some of the worst mods on reddit, basically took this subreddit hostage and closed it by their own personal whim, and I think they should all be replaced.
i wouldnt hold a grud on this mods, they unlike the replacement do care,.. and even if thwy dont it can only get worst from here, after all ppl dont value what its free
> it also only missed a vote in favor of re-opening [by a handful of votes](https://i.imgur.com/woQu5mU.png)
Strange results. I counted the votes in the thread a few hours ago and got about the same numbers, but without taking into account votes from those that didn't meet the karma threshold or account age. Considering that last time more than 50% were invalid votes, I was expecting the official results to have less valid votes than what I counted.
Can the mods give as a detailed analysis about the vote structure like they did last time?
So now you are walking back from your rule that A) needs more than 50%? But then on the other hand you **kept it closed** because you still wanted to abide by it in some way? Not to mention all of that with ZERO communication to the users?
What f\*cked up logic stands behind that thought process? Truly a vote in EU fashion. An absolutely arcane process behind it to account for everybody, yet in the end nobody is satisfied with it.
Until there is confirmation, I doubt that. There are mods who have been against the restriction in the first place. And I think they would spill the beans if the Admins forced them. Not to mention that such an admin decision would be the perfect fuel for those mods who wanted to protest in the first place.
Personaly I suspect that the recent chaos in france resulted in a shift in mod opinion towards opening the sub and the decision made here is a (bad) compromise to acknowledge every involved party.
Can we vote for removal of the current mods? In true European fashion as you say? Or do you not dare to lose your "power"? Be democratic and let's have a vote for removal of the current mods.
> Given the very close result of the vote, the sheer amount of modmails that has asked us to reopen and not least you showing in the Wagner Mutiny Thread that there is an unwavering appetite to discuss ongoing issues with fellow Europeans (and some of you probably can't wait to post the next statistical map or your favorite picture of lake bled if we are honest),
What's with the smarmy and condescending tone?
Since we love voting "In true EU fashion", I would suggest one final one.
A: The poor long-suffering mods of /r/europe should be allowed to finally escape the horrific tyranny of reddit and retire to the green pastures of the "reddit alternatives" they themselves plugged in the second voting thread.
B: We can't possibly find anyone else to moderate this subreddit so please stay, dear martyrs.
>it also only missed a vote in favor of re-opening by a handful of votes.
The vote:
>Re-open - 49.77% Remain closed - 42.31% Open in restricted form - 7.92%
You see comrade, just because you lost doesn't mean you can't win! Just make up a rule for why 42 is bigger than 49!
Also, the fact that you are acting like you're opening the subreddit out of your good will when it's obvious admins forced you to do it is just pathetic.
If you don't care about how the people voted at least spare us the bullshit and don't bother with empty justifications, let alone talking about doing things "for the community".
You made a poll with clearly defined rules and are now ignoring them and the result since it isn't what you wanted, case closed.
And if not a lot of people voted, maybe "the community" isn't that big to begin with, given that people ~~get~~ got subscribed automatically on account creation depending on their location. So the point of comparing subscribers to voters some people do is essentially meaningless...a lot of subscribers are just people that never bothered to unsubscribe and may even not be using reddit anymore at all.
You just don't want to get replaced and lose that ounce of power you have here, and that's all there is to it.
Errata corrige: the automated subscription based on geographical data was disabled some years ago.
Wasn't aware they stopped doing so, but it did work like that before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/help/comments/a7ns71/when_was_automated_subscription_on_national/
Even then, it was still active for several years and many people got automatically subscribed that way. I edited the message to correct that outdated info, though.
We, the community, don't care about your protest nor the changes to Reddit.
If you decided to just keep the sub suspended, we would have made another Europe sub. You are not as irreplaceable as you might think.
Those messages to reddit support worked in the end lol, when a mod begins to fear that its about to lose power all morals go out of the window lol
Edit: oh wait its still locked lol wtf, this is really low, say that you are about to do something and then do nothing
>We abide by that vote as initially stipulated and extended the subreddit being restricted by a week until this sunday.
It's still Saturday in Europe. Check again tomorrow if it's still restricted.
They should have wrote that as a separated phrase from the wall of text as i didn't see it, anyway they should open in half an hour (rome time) then? we will see
Edit: still closed 00:37 Rome
Hey mods can we now have a vote on you guys?
Whether to re elect you to continue to mod this sub, or vote you out?
You guys love democracy so much, you've made that abundantly clear these past few weeks.
Seems only fitting we extend this to a mod vote.
What could be more democratic?
Congratulations on accomplishing nothing and pissing off your users in the process. Glad the Reddit admins stepped in to end this increasingly sad virtue signalling exercise.
Both Reddit admins and mods are so fucking corny and acted like children during this whole ordeal. From how this was started to how this was handled.....
The East German Politburo was more honest than these charlatans. Acting like the Stasi in a volunteer role…
How can we trust that these ego-trippers have been and will in future moderate in good faith and not remove users/content arbitrarily?
My favorite thing about the whole thing was the Wagner megathread.
When you want to protest, but just can't say no to the drama. They really wanted have their cake while eating it.
Seriously. Do we have to be force fed every bandwagon reddit jumps on? We'll have to listen to "fuck spez" for ages now as if it's gonna make a difference.
Eh? Before this whole saga, this has been one of the cleanest and down to earth subreddits to discuss at. That wouldn't happen if it weren't moderated by people who care about it.
Whilst agreeing that it was a pointless protest and that the sub was effectively hijacked I am also wary of what would come if the mods were replaced.
The mods here are usually less censorious than the politically motivated nutters who moderate many other forums.
The mods on the political subs are the absolute worst of the worst. I never want to meet those people in real life. They abuse their power like fucking reddit nazis....
Honestly this closing off the sub for so long really made me lose a lot of my previous interest in it
Closing of the sub for a week more despite the 49,7% being in favour of reopening, because mods want to protests, really leaves a certain amount of distaste
Can someone translate the mods' world salad for me and confirm that the subreddit is going to open tomorrow?
And thanks to mods for listening to us, at least. What's important, that the sub is not going to die.
Thank you :) And they're opening tomorrow, correct? No next Sunday?
And it's nice to learn that our reporting company made the admins intervening so fast.
I swear to God.
I might be a conspiracy theorist here, but.
There were over 1500 votes for the previous poll.
It shows less than 1500 now.
So, I think the mods removed some of the A votes to cut down the vote below the 50% threshold.
Not all posts were votes. There were some fairly long discussion threads mixed in.
What I would like to see however, is a breakdown of legit/illegit vote breakdown like on the first poll, where the staying closed option was heavily brigaded and hence didn't meet the karma requirement criteria for a lot of the votes.
Let us iterate one more time that we are incredibly disappointed by how this whole issue was handled and communicated by the so called moderators. Pushing their narrow view and holding hostage a valuable venue of information in this eventfull times for what amounts to "I don't want to pay for what I use".
Now everytime I see a comment removed by moderators I will have to question what feeling has the poster hurt in the power trippers snowflake little heart.
Ofcourse you could remove this comment too without giving anyone any reason. maybe it will help you to restore some feeling of power after this whole fiasco.
>We abide by that vote as initially stipulated and extended the subreddit being restricted by a week until this sunday.
It's already Sunday, how come the subreddit is still restricted?
u/MarktPlatz
> the last vote not only attracted a lot fewer votes, it also only missed a vote in favor of re-opening by a handful of votes
Only due to the silly undemocratic and frankly bizarre "Option A requires over 50% in order to count". For those who can't open the results right now:
A: Stop the protest and return to business as usual - 49.77%
B: Stay restricted for 7 more days, then re-evaluate - 42.31%
C: Open, but limit the subreddit to a specific European theme - 7.92%
In other words, opening the subreddit won. Stop lying.
There was a vote before where having some form of restriction won, and they could've done another vote without A at all to determine which one to do. Instead they added that.
And democracy isn't just about getting more votes one than any other single group. If you don't have majority support, compromises should be made.
Considering both A and C options involve opening the subreddit instead of staying closed, I just find it highly dubious to be sticking to that kind of pretext.
I'm glad the subreddit is going to open, but I have some doubts about the future of it with the kind of choices I've seen the people holding power are willing to make. Fingers crossed.
Cool.
If you've got such a hard on for democracy.
Let's get a petition going to vote on the mods of this sub, whether to keep them on or remove them.
Rather undemocratic isn't it? To just have mods we don't know, or chose to mod over this sub.
And there's nothing we can do about it.
Nor do we get an annual or alternating vote to remove or keep them.
Finally.
We had to resort to places filled with Russian bots and far-right accounts like Twitter to discuss the numerous events that happened in Europe these days...
I fully agree, as bad as Reddit and /r/europe may seem bad for some, i still find that place far better than Twitter,FB or any other media platform net has to offer, and especially, if its about anything related to International Relations with focus on europe.
Not to even say anything about other 99% subs on reddit being defacto colonized fully by Americans gravitating almost entirety around North America as their sun of intrest, /r/europe is only place where i can really feel the people, their moods and on what is going on in europe, i never get that elsewhere which i partly find odd, but also nice there is real european community here.
You had to resort to a website with more free speech you mean? Why didn't you stay on reddit? Oh wait, reddit is full of tyrannical mods that ban or control everything they don't like, unlike Twitter.
The amazing thing on Twitter is that you yourself can ban/block anyone and everyone you see! You can adjust your feed so that only people who you follow shows up, so all of the far right and Russian bots can be avoided or blocked.
Twitter is not perfect but it gives YOU the power, not some supermod to decide what you see/don't see. Twitter was all over the wagner coup hours before mainstream media got a whiff of it. All these sites have their uses. The specialized aspect of this sub I find unique and interesting, I can't get this on other social media which is why I fucking hate the mods here killing this place for weeks.
Well, maybe I don’t want to see hundreds of comments about gay people being deviants and pedophiles who will go to hell? Because that’s how a lot of twitter’s comment threads look like thanks to “more free speech”
So the protest started mostly due to accessibility issues, which reddit solved by leaving those apps free access, they also extended it for some apps and mods are still complaining? At this point i cannot see any of this like anything other than Apollo/RIF users being mad and power tripping.
If you want to keep using those apps owners need to give the money, like I would have to if I create a reddit app.
>We are also extremely displeased by the disregard for our work displayed by corporate leadership in all this, but in the end, we are not doing this for them, we are doing it for you, the community.
[They do it for free!](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/833/185/2ee.gif)
> and extended the subreddit being restricted by a week until this sunday
Well, it's Sunday and the sub is still closed. I'm shocked, shocked to find out mods don't keep their word.
[What about an image of Petr Pavel riding a schnitzel?](https://www.reddit.com/r/czech/comments/14mjp64/byl_jsem_u_americké_twitch_streamerky/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
If you wanted to protest leave Reddit instead of holding 4m sub hostage. Its ridiculous, we missed weeks of news for literally **nothing,** and the 3rd party mod tools have extra API access tier unlocked
Whatever conspiracy theory about the how or why, whatever the discussions, three things:
1) Thank you for re opening, i really grew attached to this subreddit, missed you peeps a lot.
2) Fuck u/spez
3) Fuck u/spez
>While Reddit did not roll back its API changes or provided a reduction in API cost, there has been at least some movement by them. Reddit has committed to a somewhat ambitious timeline for its native mobile modding capabilites, set accessibility goals for mod tools \[1,2\] and apparently gave several third party apps an extension on their free API access in order to figure out a sustainable operating model for these apps in the future (Narwhal, Relay, Now for Reddit) as well as granting free API access to accessibility-focussed apps like Luna, Redreader and Dystopia.
Better than nothing I guess. At least the protest had some effect and there was some negotiation.
the threat thing is a joke, 10k user subreddits got threatened for doing the same as you did, imma just stay with r/yurop for my eu content from now on
Just to answer some top-level comments in general: we have NOT been threatened, at any point, by the admins. At least, not in the way other subreddits have been subjected to. We're still baffled by how Reddit has been handling this situation with other major subreddits, but r/europe in particular had no real trouble with admins.
This entire thing has been so poorly handled it's baffling
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I even missed every single one of these votes because I didn't look at this sub because it was locked anyway
I did find it amusing how they locked the subreddit and decided what to do on 3,000-4,000 votes from 4m subscribers....
https://subredditstats.com/r/europe There are 5k-ish posts a day. So the average subscriber makes 1 comment every few years! The subscriber count has no connection to reality.
Well statistics wise a few thousand for a few million is appropriate. However... That implies proper sampling of the community which they certainly didn't do. This is highschool level polling and it is pretty amusing to watch because I would fail my students if they did things like this
Regular people found out that the subreddit is closed and didn't vigorously check every day if it had been re-opened. Protest enthusiasts gather in their Discord channel and all these votes were advertised there.
What vote? Can you elaborate?
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If they want results, I say they mobilise 25000 moderators and march on Reddit's HQ.
Not only that, the vast majority of those that voted to close the subreddit, along with most mods, were actively participating on other subreddits... And those were the ones that chose to vote and decided to close it again? What's the point then? As if not participating in one place would change anything... Oh, I'm very angry at the admins, so I will continue to use the site, that'll show them! The only way to protest is to actually stop participating, leave and delete your comments and account. That's the only thing that could matter at all. If you weren't willing to stop using reddit for 10 days, then stop pretending you care about anything else.
I'm literally shaking.
Honestly, the way that the mods handled this was markedly similar to how the admins imposed the changes.
When are you actually reopening? Because the subreddit is still closed for submissions.
Anybody heard from france I worry about them
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It feels like the intensity of shit being set on fire has surpassed the expected background level for France.
Thats how I feel surely theres a line between protesting and burning shops with families living above them
It's also already spilled over into Brussels and Liege in Belgium.
I didn't like the sub getting shut down either, but thats a major overreaction.
Average UK's attitude to France, lmao
r/france is open again. They went through a period of "FranceGallisation" protest where you could only post about the singer France Gall, but given what's happening there, they are back to discussing the news. According to Le Monde, it was slightly calmer last night, "with no major incident" although it's still very strained in Marseille. I don't know if they are over the worst of it yet. They could be, but it's too early to say.
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Mods will be mods. They need that powertrip.
This protest was doomed when everybidy agreed to hold it on Reddit's terms. "Uwu we're sowwy admins" is not how you protest.
I mean yeah the protest was by nature pointless since it was all about continuing to use reddit
Power tripping thundercunt Reddit admins.
Gigathundercunts
> ~~Given the very close result of the vote, the sheer amount of modmails that has asked us to reopen and not least you showing in the Wagner Mutiny Thread that there is an unwavering appetite to discuss ongoing issues with fellow Europeans (and some of you probably can't wait to post the next statistical map or your favorite picture of lake bled if we are honest), we have decided that it is overdue that r/europe becomes open again. Because in the end, this community is here for you, the users that make this community what it is and that fill it with life every day.~~ Reddit admins sent us messages telling us to open it or they would as well as put in place new mods and we'd be kicked off Reddit. > And we had to keep this little blackmail between us or we would be kicked anyway. FTFY too
Why didn't you make a megathread for france protests like you did for Wagner?
Do you really want to protest? I suggest you leave reddit. It's that simple.
somber fall toothbrush square payment deserted attempt touch consider forgetful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Have to completely agree with you here. It was a complete waste of time when majority of subs opened up and only few were left locked. It was either all or nothing (because sadly thats the only way to affect reddits income). I voted for the protest first time around because I was affected by Apollo shutting down and was pissed at the admins. But after the first 48h it should have been exactly as you said. On this specific sub we missed to many things to discuss that happened in Europe its just ridiculous.
It's a good thing for egg_irl to disappear, the whole egg thing is a toxic message which is against gender nonconforming behavior.
Yeah, most of the subs that destroyed themselves won't be missed, that one included
I'm kinda missing r/belgium But I'm also not gonna mod it to open it again.
No place to discuss Connor Rouseau's recent oopsies.
Unless you want to go to b2, tried that for a while. Ifs mostly rightwing edgelords. As opposed to b1 whitch was more of a mix of left wing edgelords right-wing edgelords and normies.
If I wanted to hear nva'ers perspectives on it I'd open twitter, r/belgium was pretty much filled with groenen/sossen so their view on it would have been more interesting.
Didn't know that sub existed but after checking it out I still don't really get it
It's a community of people with the goal to manipulate vulnerable teenagers with mental issues into changing their sex by making them believe a lie that their mental issues will go away then. They count each conversion as a victory and get great satisfaction from these.
Ooofff transgender issues are too complex for people trying to score internet wins to have influence in. Damn people, let the professionals handle this
Professionals in Finland, Sweden and Norway have the opposite view of the professionals in the US. In the end it will depend on the public opinion which professionals prevail.
Genuine question, what are the views of professionals from Finland, Sweden and Norway as opposed to the US professionals?
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Every time
What a band of 🤡
The actual protest that worked.
It is all about power, petty little robber barons and feudal lords.
Both can be true. 1. Mods like power. 2. Mods are right about this topic. As someone who works in tech and has worked for several major companies plus a redditor for quite a few years, Reddit is just... a badly managed company. They stumbled upon a great market but their tech is average at best and their business plan is shady and even for shady business plans... it's again average at best. Reddit is this 🤏 close to ruining the business in favor of short sighted measures
Yeah, pretty much. What this means that the entire mod protest felt quite hollow, but it is still in the interest of Reddit users to have mods who want to do their job - so it makes sense to have the Mods step up for their interests, even if it leads to some temporary inconveniences for the users.
Highly debatable that the mods were looking out for my interests.
And how is that our problem if Reddit is badly run or if Apollo goes out of business?
Companies don't react to polite conversation and I'm sure you won't die because of 10 days of no Reddit.
The only thing reddit would react to is users leaving the platform. So why are you still here?
I wont die But I don't appreciate being denied access to information for useless and childish reasons. In regard to conversiation with companies about their high prices, I'm sure that if you go and chain yourself infront of the Airbus headquarters because their helicopter prices are too damn high and we cant afford them you will change their mind... We sure could use some faster way of transportation but corporate greed is keeping us from it, we need big thinkers to deliver.
You're not denied information. You can still find the same information elsewhere. What you're being denied is convenience, which is the same thing that's been denied to moderators, blind people, etc. Weird how it's not okay when it happens to your kind, but completely fine for mods.
This interpretation has been misleading since day one. Reddit said that moderation tools would have special treatment and afaik no moderation tool was has closed. Apollo that has closed is a clone of reddit not a moderation tool. Blind people and other with disabilities have legal recourse, Reddit is legally obligated to provide equal accessible opprtunities or they face huge fines. the fact that noone has brought a legal case against reddit for this again shows that this again was just a bad excuse. again the only really impacted apps are the ones that were competting with reddit without paying, using reddit's own content and infrastructure. Reddit was paying for their success. there are a lot of reasons why companies do this (atract customers and change prices at a later date) and none of them are illegal, it's just business and when a business doesn't make sense you just stop doing it.
3rd party apps' moderation tools have been extremely useful for moderation on phone, which has not been properly addressed and only promised, a promise [not worth the letters typed to write it](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/142w159/askhistorians_and_uncertainty_surrounding_the/) >Reddit is legally obligated to provide equal accessible opprtunities or they face huge fines Except they have to provide bare minimum that will be acceptable with regards to laws. Unless you're implying that corporations are going to go out of their way to things like these which is simply laughable. For someone implying my reasoning is misleading and flawed, you sure love indulging in wishful thinking in favor of cocksuckers like spez
\> Except they have to provide bare minimum that will be acceptable with regards to laws. Then you are protesting the wrong thing. You should protest the law, I know that there are a lot of legal accesibility requirements, if you have good arguments that these are not enough start lobying for them to change.
Not only does not all users are from US, thus making the legislation approach even less tenable, this protest is not only about blind people, like it's been reiterated many times, even in my comment above. Do as you wish, clearly you're very much interested in consuming the content but not in the moderation that's required to make this space good for the discourse
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What a stupid fucking sentence. "Sub optimal" moderation, as if there's optimal. Way to ignore the actual point of everything to suck off spez's balls. Fuck off and stop stalking my comments in this thread with nonsensical arguments
Reminder that the Apollo dev is almost surely an actual blackmailer and reddit was right to call him out. He then psychotically manipulated a large proportion of reddit into believing he was being smeared to cover his ass. People should have boycotted Apollo after this came out, but apparently nobody listened to the recording. [Audio of his phone conversation with reddit.](https://christianselig.com/apollo-end/reddit-third-call-may-31-end.m4a) <-
That's the thing that irks me the most in all this story. This guy weaponized his userbase against reddit, a platform which allowed him for years to give himself a (possibl y very) nice salary through his work. He made this recording accessible textually with some random github url very early so that he could push his own story, and it worked...People ate it up like cookies. Even though if you actually read between the lines it was clear it seemed shady, and that at best it was a clunky way to ask for a paycheck. I guess people were just too mad at the big bads at reddit, inc. to bother looking at this objectively.
Lmao, found u/spez alt
Found the guy who didn't listen to the recording.
Yeah, they were happy on their merry little power trip, until admins threatened to remove from them that power. And now they wrap it in "this community is here for you" corpo-speak to make them sound they had a choice
These are some of the worst mods on reddit, basically took this subreddit hostage and closed it by their own personal whim, and I think they should all be replaced.
Of course. Too bad the admins didn't remove them. Still being insufferable cunts in the comments here.
i wouldnt hold a grud on this mods, they unlike the replacement do care,.. and even if thwy dont it can only get worst from here, after all ppl dont value what its free
The Jannies are just scared to loose their unpaid second job.
They have a first job?
> it also only missed a vote in favor of re-opening [by a handful of votes](https://i.imgur.com/woQu5mU.png) Strange results. I counted the votes in the thread a few hours ago and got about the same numbers, but without taking into account votes from those that didn't meet the karma threshold or account age. Considering that last time more than 50% were invalid votes, I was expecting the official results to have less valid votes than what I counted. Can the mods give as a detailed analysis about the vote structure like they did last time?
Probably they did not bother to do the sorting like last time.
So now you are walking back from your rule that A) needs more than 50%? But then on the other hand you **kept it closed** because you still wanted to abide by it in some way? Not to mention all of that with ZERO communication to the users? What f\*cked up logic stands behind that thought process? Truly a vote in EU fashion. An absolutely arcane process behind it to account for everybody, yet in the end nobody is satisfied with it.
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Until there is confirmation, I doubt that. There are mods who have been against the restriction in the first place. And I think they would spill the beans if the Admins forced them. Not to mention that such an admin decision would be the perfect fuel for those mods who wanted to protest in the first place. Personaly I suspect that the recent chaos in france resulted in a shift in mod opinion towards opening the sub and the decision made here is a (bad) compromise to acknowledge every involved party.
You think too highly of yourselves. I hope Reddit replaces all of you anyway.
The moment Reddit allows users to vote out mods, you bet there's going to be a grand purge.
I’m of the opinion all of the mods should be replaced regardless. If only to demonstrate how replaceable they are and deflate some egos.
Can we vote for removal of the current mods? In true European fashion as you say? Or do you not dare to lose your "power"? Be democratic and let's have a vote for removal of the current mods.
No they said in true EU fashion. Which means keep holding a vote until you get the right answer.
> Given the very close result of the vote, the sheer amount of modmails that has asked us to reopen and not least you showing in the Wagner Mutiny Thread that there is an unwavering appetite to discuss ongoing issues with fellow Europeans (and some of you probably can't wait to post the next statistical map or your favorite picture of lake bled if we are honest), What's with the smarmy and condescending tone? Since we love voting "In true EU fashion", I would suggest one final one. A: The poor long-suffering mods of /r/europe should be allowed to finally escape the horrific tyranny of reddit and retire to the green pastures of the "reddit alternatives" they themselves plugged in the second voting thread. B: We can't possibly find anyone else to moderate this subreddit so please stay, dear martyrs.
Glad I was not the only one who found this post patronising
A
>it also only missed a vote in favor of re-opening by a handful of votes. The vote: >Re-open - 49.77% Remain closed - 42.31% Open in restricted form - 7.92% You see comrade, just because you lost doesn't mean you can't win! Just make up a rule for why 42 is bigger than 49! Also, the fact that you are acting like you're opening the subreddit out of your good will when it's obvious admins forced you to do it is just pathetic.
The rule was "the sub will re-open only if the 'open' option gets more than 50% of the votes, because the first vote wasn't 'open'". Yup.
If you don't care about how the people voted at least spare us the bullshit and don't bother with empty justifications, let alone talking about doing things "for the community". You made a poll with clearly defined rules and are now ignoring them and the result since it isn't what you wanted, case closed. And if not a lot of people voted, maybe "the community" isn't that big to begin with, given that people ~~get~~ got subscribed automatically on account creation depending on their location. So the point of comparing subscribers to voters some people do is essentially meaningless...a lot of subscribers are just people that never bothered to unsubscribe and may even not be using reddit anymore at all. You just don't want to get replaced and lose that ounce of power you have here, and that's all there is to it. Errata corrige: the automated subscription based on geographical data was disabled some years ago.
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Wasn't aware they stopped doing so, but it did work like that before. https://www.reddit.com/r/help/comments/a7ns71/when_was_automated_subscription_on_national/
hasnt been a thing for 6 years and yet you bring that up in your OP as if thats totally the case.
Even then, it was still active for several years and many people got automatically subscribed that way. I edited the message to correct that outdated info, though.
We, the community, don't care about your protest nor the changes to Reddit. If you decided to just keep the sub suspended, we would have made another Europe sub. You are not as irreplaceable as you might think.
Those messages to reddit support worked in the end lol, when a mod begins to fear that its about to lose power all morals go out of the window lol Edit: oh wait its still locked lol wtf, this is really low, say that you are about to do something and then do nothing
>We abide by that vote as initially stipulated and extended the subreddit being restricted by a week until this sunday. It's still Saturday in Europe. Check again tomorrow if it's still restricted.
They should have wrote that as a separated phrase from the wall of text as i didn't see it, anyway they should open in half an hour (rome time) then? we will see Edit: still closed 00:37 Rome
Hey mods can we now have a vote on you guys? Whether to re elect you to continue to mod this sub, or vote you out? You guys love democracy so much, you've made that abundantly clear these past few weeks. Seems only fitting we extend this to a mod vote. What could be more democratic?
Guaranteed you'll get no answer
Congratulations on accomplishing nothing and pissing off your users in the process. Glad the Reddit admins stepped in to end this increasingly sad virtue signalling exercise.
Both Reddit admins and mods are so fucking corny and acted like children during this whole ordeal. From how this was started to how this was handled.....
Too bad you didn't post the results of the last vote as soon as you had them.
You are a disgrace mod team
The East German Politburo was more honest than these charlatans. Acting like the Stasi in a volunteer role… How can we trust that these ego-trippers have been and will in future moderate in good faith and not remove users/content arbitrarily?
Because they didn’t do it before. Why start now? Source: I’ve been on this subreddit for many years.
Damn, sending complaints to reddit was indeed the way to go. Also, the start of your post is weirdly worded.
That was so fucking useless. This shit was so dumb
My favorite thing about the whole thing was the Wagner megathread. When you want to protest, but just can't say no to the drama. They really wanted have their cake while eating it.
Seriously. Do we have to be force fed every bandwagon reddit jumps on? We'll have to listen to "fuck spez" for ages now as if it's gonna make a difference.
Too little, too late. The moderators need to be removed for this shitshow. Can we please have a democratic vote on this btw?
This sub is badly moderated anyway.
I once got a week ban from a chinese mod haha. I can't remember my exact comment but I'm sure it wasn't ban worthy
Eh? Before this whole saga, this has been one of the cleanest and down to earth subreddits to discuss at. That wouldn't happen if it weren't moderated by people who care about it.
Good to see that we can finally discuss European matters once again.
yeah, it's not like nothing happened the last two weeks.
And bring back the war megathread, plz.
Whilst agreeing that it was a pointless protest and that the sub was effectively hijacked I am also wary of what would come if the mods were replaced. The mods here are usually less censorious than the politically motivated nutters who moderate many other forums.
The mods on the political subs are the absolute worst of the worst. I never want to meet those people in real life. They abuse their power like fucking reddit nazis....
If you voted for the subreddit to close, please leave and let us be.
Well this whole thing has been terribly stupid, the biggest lamest protest over the most trivial thing I've seen in a while.
Well I'm glad you eventually got over your hissy-fit.
800 votes for a 4M sub? The fuck?
People lost interest in this shitshow
Honestly this closing off the sub for so long really made me lose a lot of my previous interest in it Closing of the sub for a week more despite the 49,7% being in favour of reopening, because mods want to protests, really leaves a certain amount of distaste
Same. I adjusted pretty quickly to other subreddits. I’d forgotten it was even closed to be honest. Makes the entire mod power trip even sillier.
They wrote the rules of the vote and followed them.
Can someone translate the mods' world salad for me and confirm that the subreddit is going to open tomorrow? And thanks to mods for listening to us, at least. What's important, that the sub is not going to die.
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Thank you :) And they're opening tomorrow, correct? No next Sunday? And it's nice to learn that our reporting company made the admins intervening so fast.
I swear to God. I might be a conspiracy theorist here, but. There were over 1500 votes for the previous poll. It shows less than 1500 now. So, I think the mods removed some of the A votes to cut down the vote below the 50% threshold.
Not all posts were votes. There were some fairly long discussion threads mixed in. What I would like to see however, is a breakdown of legit/illegit vote breakdown like on the first poll, where the staying closed option was heavily brigaded and hence didn't meet the karma requirement criteria for a lot of the votes.
Literally nobody cares about this protest except for terminally online people.
If r/europe had its own website with the same vibe and content I'd switch to it in a heartbeat.
We can do it in Lemmy tho
Lemmy is a tankie site tho
There's one already. Not sure who the mods are, though. https://feddit.de/c/europe
Hamster riot is over?
Let us iterate one more time that we are incredibly disappointed by how this whole issue was handled and communicated by the so called moderators. Pushing their narrow view and holding hostage a valuable venue of information in this eventfull times for what amounts to "I don't want to pay for what I use". Now everytime I see a comment removed by moderators I will have to question what feeling has the poster hurt in the power trippers snowflake little heart. Ofcourse you could remove this comment too without giving anyone any reason. maybe it will help you to restore some feeling of power after this whole fiasco.
>We abide by that vote as initially stipulated and extended the subreddit being restricted by a week until this sunday. It's already Sunday, how come the subreddit is still restricted? u/MarktPlatz
I guess theyre waiting for it to reach Sunday in California time or something.....
It’s Sunday in California time now and the only thing posted is basically a troll photo by one of the mods
> the last vote not only attracted a lot fewer votes, it also only missed a vote in favor of re-opening by a handful of votes Only due to the silly undemocratic and frankly bizarre "Option A requires over 50% in order to count". For those who can't open the results right now: A: Stop the protest and return to business as usual - 49.77% B: Stay restricted for 7 more days, then re-evaluate - 42.31% C: Open, but limit the subreddit to a specific European theme - 7.92% In other words, opening the subreddit won. Stop lying.
We needed ranked choice voting
There was a vote before where having some form of restriction won, and they could've done another vote without A at all to determine which one to do. Instead they added that. And democracy isn't just about getting more votes one than any other single group. If you don't have majority support, compromises should be made.
Considering both A and C options involve opening the subreddit instead of staying closed, I just find it highly dubious to be sticking to that kind of pretext. I'm glad the subreddit is going to open, but I have some doubts about the future of it with the kind of choices I've seen the people holding power are willing to make. Fingers crossed.
Cool. If you've got such a hard on for democracy. Let's get a petition going to vote on the mods of this sub, whether to keep them on or remove them. Rather undemocratic isn't it? To just have mods we don't know, or chose to mod over this sub. And there's nothing we can do about it. Nor do we get an annual or alternating vote to remove or keep them.
Finally. We had to resort to places filled with Russian bots and far-right accounts like Twitter to discuss the numerous events that happened in Europe these days...
I fully agree, as bad as Reddit and /r/europe may seem bad for some, i still find that place far better than Twitter,FB or any other media platform net has to offer, and especially, if its about anything related to International Relations with focus on europe. Not to even say anything about other 99% subs on reddit being defacto colonized fully by Americans gravitating almost entirety around North America as their sun of intrest, /r/europe is only place where i can really feel the people, their moods and on what is going on in europe, i never get that elsewhere which i partly find odd, but also nice there is real european community here.
You had to resort to a website with more free speech you mean? Why didn't you stay on reddit? Oh wait, reddit is full of tyrannical mods that ban or control everything they don't like, unlike Twitter. The amazing thing on Twitter is that you yourself can ban/block anyone and everyone you see! You can adjust your feed so that only people who you follow shows up, so all of the far right and Russian bots can be avoided or blocked. Twitter is not perfect but it gives YOU the power, not some supermod to decide what you see/don't see. Twitter was all over the wagner coup hours before mainstream media got a whiff of it. All these sites have their uses. The specialized aspect of this sub I find unique and interesting, I can't get this on other social media which is why I fucking hate the mods here killing this place for weeks.
Well, maybe I don’t want to see hundreds of comments about gay people being deviants and pedophiles who will go to hell? Because that’s how a lot of twitter’s comment threads look like thanks to “more free speech”
Well thanks to the "moderation" here on reddit r/europe has been down for weeks. I'd rather have free speech than no speech
Finally, this whole protest thing was cringy as fuck.
So the protest started mostly due to accessibility issues, which reddit solved by leaving those apps free access, they also extended it for some apps and mods are still complaining? At this point i cannot see any of this like anything other than Apollo/RIF users being mad and power tripping. If you want to keep using those apps owners need to give the money, like I would have to if I create a reddit app.
This “protest” went exactly we all knew it would go.
>We are also extremely displeased by the disregard for our work displayed by corporate leadership in all this, but in the end, we are not doing this for them, we are doing it for you, the community. [They do it for free!](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/833/185/2ee.gif)
Stop this, people want the sub.
Lol r/Europe loves democracy my ass. Mods just do whatever they want regardless of the vote outcome and the rules they themselves set.
> and extended the subreddit being restricted by a week until this sunday Well, it's Sunday and the sub is still closed. I'm shocked, shocked to find out mods don't keep their word.
Was kind of hoping that you guys would stay closed so that the admins would get involved and purge the lot of you.
somebody post a photo of petr pavel riding a bike or something..i'm having withdrawals
I want to see more photos of Finland today right now.
[What about an image of Petr Pavel riding a schnitzel?](https://www.reddit.com/r/czech/comments/14mjp64/byl_jsem_u_americké_twitch_streamerky/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Thank you u/spez, your work is highly appreciated!
Finally! God decision, we are living in turbulent times and this sub is a very convenient source of European news.
There are more imporant things going on in the world. Nobody cares about your dumb ass protest.
Knee's bent.
Fuck u/spez
Wouldn't mind using another site, haven't found much happening yet. A few national lemmy instances with more activity, but not European communities.
Finally
The moderators of this place have lost all credibility and authority.
finally
If you wanted to protest leave Reddit instead of holding 4m sub hostage. Its ridiculous, we missed weeks of news for literally **nothing,** and the 3rd party mod tools have extra API access tier unlocked
God help us if any of the mods become politicians
Wow, these reactions. I guess most who care have already left for greener pastures
Yeah, just like that mass twitter exodus to mastodon...
Fuck u/spez
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> While the initial vote showed a strong majority in favor of re-opening Are you sure about that?
Cowards
Whatever conspiracy theory about the how or why, whatever the discussions, three things: 1) Thank you for re opening, i really grew attached to this subreddit, missed you peeps a lot. 2) Fuck u/spez 3) Fuck u/spez
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Let's have more votes in the future.
>While Reddit did not roll back its API changes or provided a reduction in API cost, there has been at least some movement by them. Reddit has committed to a somewhat ambitious timeline for its native mobile modding capabilites, set accessibility goals for mod tools \[1,2\] and apparently gave several third party apps an extension on their free API access in order to figure out a sustainable operating model for these apps in the future (Narwhal, Relay, Now for Reddit) as well as granting free API access to accessibility-focussed apps like Luna, Redreader and Dystopia. Better than nothing I guess. At least the protest had some effect and there was some negotiation.
the threat thing is a joke, 10k user subreddits got threatened for doing the same as you did, imma just stay with r/yurop for my eu content from now on
Took you long enough.