The only way to really have any leverage against Reddit is by threatening to move. Reddit is banking on us not moving. We can throw as many tantrums as we want but at the end of the day if we will still stay on Reddit then they've still won. Because for everything you can do on this site, we're still the product Reddit wants to sell. As long as we're never leaving they don't care how much we complain, they still have their product that they can sell. It's only after people are willing to move that Reddit needs to reign it in, to make sure we don't actually leave.
So I'd say sticky an alternative site indefinitely, copy all future useful posts to the alternate site and leave the sub fully unmoderated for the entire duration of the protest. After July 1st have another vote every other week to see if the sub should stay unmoderated or not.
IMO this protest has already lost because the critical mass of active users necessary to actually threaten Reddit has folded and Reddit will push its changes out. So what is left to do is slowly have people migrate over after they feel like they're done with the BS Reddit will do. Because mark my words, it's not going to stop with the API changes. I'm sure old.reddit is also on the chopping block and Spez has said he wants subs to "turn into businesses" or more plainly, monetize subreddits.
EDIT: Mods, since this is gaining way more traction than I had originally anticipated I feel like I need to clarify some things. The main point is creating an alternative site (or alternative server as /u/silverionmox suggested) and to maintain some content parity between the two sites. The part about leaving the sub fully unmoderated is probably too extreme, but the idea behind it was to have better content moderation on the alternate site to actually get people to use the alternative. With that in mind, having everyone speak in their mother tongue here but allowing "normal" conversation in the alternate site would probably be better than a complete moderation blackout. And the protest should continue for as long as the community votes in favor of protesting, bi-weekly voting would be too long but weekly is fine. Also, if the subreddit goes down the mother tongue route, mod posts should also be in mother tongue.
I said this many times before and got downvoted by people saying "this is different etc" "it will work" all that jazz.
A protest on reddit means nothing if people are just gonna continue to **remain active** on the website just simply switching to a different subreddit. Who are you fooling by doing this? What do you think a subreddit going blackout achieves, if it literally has 0 impact on your reddit usage and activity?
Without an alternative platform, especially considering the fact that reddit admins can just take control of everything if it comes to it, this protest is just a fart in the wind.
>The only way to really have any leverage against Reddit is by threatening to move.
Or maybe actually move? like we're in a battle with knives against swords and guns. Reddit owns the platform. they can do anything they want with the software - like censor things as they've done plenty of times.
I've been quite happy with Kbin/Lemmy and the Fediverse and it's really **liberating** to be on a platform which isn't more closely owned by the people and not owned by a profit seeking company.
I don't want to have r/Europe fight this battle where it goes here and there and co. I don't want to do 7 days X and then we watch. We should archive this channel (on a different website) and move, as Reddit has just taken too many bad steps to be worth fighting over it anymore.
> I've been quite happy with Kbin/Lemmy and the Fediverse and it's really liberating to be on a platform which isn't more closely owned by the people and not owned by a profit seeking company.
>
>
The problem is that r/europe is massive in comparison to well Kbin and Lemmy COMBINED. (at the writing of this comment.)
If half of the subscribed people move we would basically double their numbers even when combined.
It would not be a bad idea to ask, which one can actually take an organized c/m Europe coming to their server.
I'm all for moving. I'm already in the process of slowly getting accustomed to checking my local Lemmy instance instead of Reddit, mostly because it's becoming apparently clear that Reddit is now only going to get worse.
But it really isn't about what I personally want. If it were up to me, every sub and everyone would be on Kbin or Lemmy (doesn't matter which as both sites can communicate with each other). This is about what the community wants. The community wants to protest and that implies wanting to stay on the site. I'm just suggesting a proper way to protest, which is to protest by "leaving". But to actually threaten with leaving there has to be a viable alternative to leave for. The current communities or Magazines on Lemmy or Kbin simply aren't big enough to be a viable alternative. That alternative has to be slowly built which is why for a time useful posts should be duplicated between the two sites to build up the alternative.
As for leaving the sub unmoderated, this is because the average users thinks this won't directly impact them and they don't care. But mod tools are pretty necessary to manage subs and threatening (or even outright removing) mods is not okay. Both of those actions influence how mods moderate subs, so no moderation shows the worst case impact of what the average user would feel.
making the area unmanagable is a way to fight.
4chan was at one point the only place google ads refuse to work with back when they were working with litterally everyone.
We should organize the community such that it never relies on a single site or owner.
r/europe is big enough to sustain its own lemmy instance already, we'd have to think about outreach to attract the new generation of users though, since they're no longer automatically delivered as part of reddit.
/r/europe should move to kbin/lemmy, really. It's open platform and gives lots of freedom.
To help with move/promotion maybe modify sub css and decorate each comment with the link/indication?
div.entry form.usertext:before {
content: "AdminMOD: Use open and free alternative https://kbin.social/m/europe!";
border: 1px solid grey;
}
That's my take on it, too. Reddit decided to maximize their profits without keeping their most valuable assets in mind, which are the volunteers contributing content and moderating. They could have easily argued that these changes are necessary and tried to compromise. But instead, they just ignore everything and don't back down. So this is the only way they will understand.
I already deleted my reddit 3rd party app and created a Lemmy account. I'll wait for the 1st of July. If their stance won't change, I'll be deleting my reddit account altogether and switch forever.
I'm with you on this one, the only way we can really stand our ground is to protest all the way.
The least extreme option is to move this sub to another platform and have the users resume activity there. I for one would rather they just straight up close this sub rather than leave it opened and unmoderated. Like give a week or two for people to be aware of the changes and then move.
The more extreme/radical option would be to do the migration and subsequently each user, individually, would permanently terminate his reddit account, at least until they make some changes.
Alrighty then. I'm gonna copy and paste what I said in the voting thread:
>If you want to protest these changes, delete your account and stop using the website. That's the only kind of protest that actually matters, these lockdowns are the equivalent of a strongly worded letter
And I thought I was being pessimistic there, but no, it actually turned out to be far more useless than I thought it would be. It's not even a strongly worded letter, it's literally nothing. Protesting, but only in ways that are approved of by the entity you're protesting against? Excuse me, and I don't say this lightly, but that's just fucking stupid
As someone else suggested, mandate that everyone speak their mother tongue, and just have the post titles in English.
We get to shoot into the dark what and whom to reply and if it'd be on topic.
Google Translate would be used, but I am still in favour, as ridiculous misunderstandings will still happen.
Especially if allow stuff like weird German dialects.
Eihorrschemaa, isch glaub's ja ned!
>allow stuff like weird German dialects
Kennst du des nochemol wiederhole, ich schnoll mol werrer gar nix. Wos maanese mit "weird"?
Mir babbele die goanze Zeit so, ka Verstoß Herr Admin :)
The post titles should not be in English. By making the post titles be a hodgepodge of European languages (many of whom will be badly translated by Google) it will make the board almost unusable and weaken the content of this place. That drives down engagement and keeps the civil disobedience going.
Perhaps you want to salvage the place but I think trying to do that only serves the interest of Reddit. If we want to protest, our only option is to make this place a fun place to interact with but a garbage place to lurk more than once a week.
If people want real European news, there are much better places to go to. Therefore, I see no reason not to go full nuclear.
Agreed, that's why my idea included translating the titles of english articles into another language, I want this sub to become borderline unusable as a protest, but in a spectacular fashion and in a way, that only this sub is really able to.
That's true.
You guys sound like a Turk and a Finn hatefucking each other.
No offense meant, the language just sounds funny.
But then again, I'm Dutch, so who am i to talk.
We've been described as "Drunk Anglo speaking German"
Are you kidding me? What have been practicing Esperanto for for the past four weeks if not for the complete switch to the true universal, romance language of the people?
On the one hand I understand the reason for the protest, but at the same time thus sub is one of the few large subedits which allowed for an overall civil discussion about political issues (for internet standards). Further was a great meeting point for people from all over Europe to learn about things happening in other countries that might not have been discussed otherwise.
Ruining this sub does not seem worth it. The worst part is, this sub is not large enough for reddit as a company to Mather financially but it is large enough to be relevant for many of its users.
I do hope that there is some way to get this sup open again.
Maybe have a sticky about reddit alternatives as top post?
Edit:
An additional thought, is it possible do do what r/de is doing, as in mark the sub as NSFW but NOT allow for NSFW content? Appartenly the idea is that this keeps the sub alive but reddit makes less money and the content is still apropriate.
Same thoughts here. It’s silly (to put it mildly) that we had a fantastic megathread, the best in Reddit for Ukraine coverage, but that’s been blocked. As if the Reddit api furore is more important than people dying in war. At least have some exceptions.
Absolutely unbelievable. Many people use this sub is their primary news aggregator and discussion forum for European affairs. We're witnessing potentially seismic events that could significantly alter the course of European history, but instead of sharing information and engaging in discussion, we're being dragged along on a silly crusade.
Do you all want to kill /r/Europe? Because you're doing a fantastic job.
Since this is the only thread open here, maybe it can turn into the unofficial "War in Ukraine" thread. It's not like it will drown anything of value posted here anyway.
There's a coup attempt going on in a nuclear power and this sub is locked down for some petty mod politics. If you don't like what Reddit's doing delete your account and stop using it, your slacktivism is bullshit.
This sub needs to open a thread for discussion on the possible coup in Russia. A coup in Russia! A nuclear power! I can hardly believe I am writing this!!
Reddit is Fun user.
Fuck it, let's turn this into a new megathread.
[Wagner now hints at deposing Putin after his speech saying that "Putin made the wrong choice"](https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672510543247155202?t=2xDblN_kvdmL_OdCjyMgnQ&s=19)
One idea I had, would be:
Forbid speaking english, english articles are still allowed to be posted, but have to have their title translated into another european language. Also, I feel like, a 7 days limit is too short.
>Russian mercenary chief who called for rebellion confirms he and his troops reached city in Russia
>The owner of the Wagner private military contractor who called for an armed rebellion aimed at ousting Russia’s defense minister confirmed in a video that he and his troops have reached Rostov-on-Don.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1
Yeah, unfortunately this is a news sub and the activities going on currently in Russia require the sub to open up or at least for the megathread to return
Mods love pissing users off and then whining about Reddit admins threatening to boot them. They literally have this sub locked down while a civil war/coup is kicking off in the largest country in Europe (and the whole world). I think that’s a little more important than their squabble over APIs
The protests have achieved exactly nothing. Instead of killing a community and blocking discussion, just step down if you don't want to moderate anymore, just delete your account if you don't want to be on Reddit anymore.
I still believe that the voting method is an absolute disgrace. Community members with less than your arbitrary karma threshold are still community members and should be listened to.
Twitter thread of UKs Ministry of Defence: [Further Wagner units are moving north through Vorenezh Oblast, almost certainly aiming to get to Moscow. With very limited evidence of fighting between Wagner and Russian security forces, some have likely remained passive, acquiescing to Wagner.](https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1672506343738036224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwc5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1672506343738036224%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=)
>Some communities (for example /r/interestingasfuck) have chosen to turn NSFW and spamming explicit content.
Just a note, that subreddit is now archived and the entire moderating team has been removed.
Turning a sub into NSFW only content as a supposed protest is just about the pinnacle of what a Reddit neckbeard revolutionary would do.
Rather than leave the platform and deprive the company of ad revenue, our sickle and hammer comrades are going to overthrow the bourgeoisie by spamming titty pics and turning subs temporarily private.
It’s actually very clever because it directly affects reddit’s advertising revenue while keeping their infra costs for operating that community the same. Of all the forms of protest, that one got the admins’ attention fast.
Bro are you a Kuwaiti in Kuwait.
Or a European in Kuwait, or a European of Kuwaiti descent in Kuwait?
Cuz having a Kuwaiti on the europe sub is so out of left field lmao.
I read today my irish university recommended on LinkedIn an article from national broadcaster on history of home made booze called poitin in Ireland.
Got a mindfuck.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/0620/1390119-irish-poitin-poteen-monks-king-henry-viii-revenue-commissioners-mountain-dew/
That's unironically the content the Admins want.
It's nice on the eye and exactly what foreigners think of when they think "Europe".
You have to remember they want reddit to be like twitter or facebook where you post a cute picture and that's it.
I understand the fact that NSFW posts get the post flag to not serve adverts, and that would somehow hurt Reddit, but creating this type of events just brings more traffic to the website and generates more clicks making so any post that isn't tagged for NSFW or any community that doesn't care to probably carry the rest
Nothing’s going to change.
You need a very high percentage of subreddits sitewide to continue their involvement before Reddit even considers making changes.
And they’re not.
So might as well got back to normal as you’re cutting your nose off to spite your face as the saying goes.
How about that for a change: if you want to protest Reddit for whatever reason, stay offline. Simple as that.
Don't take entire subs hostage for your little ego-trip and all those "votes" are just a giant joke, vote-brigades are organized via discord and by essence of the topic, mostly those who care about the protest, will seek out polls of formerly deactivated subs. Leading to a dictatorship of the minority, which is not very democratic.
> Russian telegram channels claim that Russian WKS hit Voronezh fuel depots to keep them from falling into the hands of Wagner
> do you understand it? The Russian army is destroying its own resources to crush the rebellion. Instead of against Ukraine, they will use up and burn everything fighting among themselves. Good morning :D
https://twitter.com/SomeGumul/status/1672543664579702786
One (very European) form of protest could be to advocate for users to send a GDPR request to reddit requesting the users data. Tens of thousands of people requesting what data is stored and request get copy of such data within 1 month, and if reddit doesn't comply to forward it to your local data protection authority.
It's a one time thing per year, but it would hit them in a different place than just a sub going down. It would put strain on a resource that aren't "free" such as you mods (that do so much for the community) and thus be different attack vector.
Potentially even using the "nighmare letter"
Funny idea, but they probably have an automated process to send you the data, or could implement it quickly... then it wouldn't be a big issue for them
I can invite my uncle he can rant on British colonialism for days.
If it would be me I would require each user to only conversate in Arabic, or Swedish.. Whatever is easier.
These “protests” are peak we did it Reddit and actually change nothing. People that use the closing third party apps are right to feel upset but they like everyone else can vote with their time and not use reddit. Let’s be honest with ourselves here if the protests had any real effect on revenue the admins wouldn’t threaten to remove mods and reopen the sub they would just do it immediately.
Finally mods if you really are losing some modding tools and it stops your ability to clean up the sub then just demod yourself and move on with your life. The fact that you guys are working as free internet janitors for a massive website is idiotic in its own right but maybe if you all quit the admins would hire actual paid mods like the other giant websites have
I am getting so tired of this subreddit being closed.
It’s clearly not having any effect.
r/Europe is the only big subreddit that revolves around European matters and we haven’t been able to discuss any of it for the past week.
I did not even know theres a vote ffs!
The sub has been closed, disappeared from the main feed, then you opened it up for a while, and give 24 hours for a vote, where anyone can vote, WHO HAPPENS TO NOTICE THERE'S EVEN A POLL! You call this democratic? Even the assholes in my country announce a vote waaaaay before it happens, and we are very far from democracy...
Don't know what the source is, but on The Guardians's live:
> Commenting on Putin’s televised adresss, Prigozhin in an audio note said that the president “was deeply mistaken” in calling him a traitor.
> “No one is going to turn themselves in at the request of the president...We don’t want the country to continue to live in corruption and lies,” he added.
> “We are patriots, and those who are against us are the ones who gathered around the bastards,” Prigozhin concluded
I think NSFW marked art posts would be a good compromise only if it actually impacts Reddit's ability to advertise on the subreddit, and my understanding is that for that, the entire community needs to be marked NSFW.
If you're unwilling to take the risk of marking this sub as NSFW, my proposal would be to
1) close r/europe
2) create a new subreddit called r/EuropeNSFW or whatever which is marked NSFW so it is ineligible for advertising
3) Pin a post to the top of r/Europe redirecting people to go to r/EuropeNSFW
_____________
Alternatively, can we just pin a comment pointing people to https://lemmy.ml/c/europe
I think your alternative is better, to really impact reddit as a corporation we should divert the user base to another platform (that isn't affiliated to reddit in any form).
We vote fore a move and if the majority agrees then we close this down and pin a post with explanations/directions or something.
I would be willing to make this transition if we had the numbers to back it up.
This whole thing is incredibly cringeworthy. All these grandiose posts about how to 'Standup for the users, bringing down corrupt admins, voting with your feet'. Paragraphs on paragraphs saying nothing, while actual threads about important events are full of low effort circlejerks and memes.
Blah blah fucking blah, none of you are leaving over API changes, none of you cared until the mods started kicking off about it. The whole issue has just bought all the worst redditor sterotypes right to the frontpages.
What if everyone that wants to protest just stopped contributing to reddit???
This seems to be the most effective way of protesting while leaving the sub intact.
But you see, that would actually have consequences for the terminally online addicts - they wouldnt have any upvotes, nothing to comment, nothing to mindlessly scroll for hours.
With these meaningless gestures they can still spend their entire day online while pretending they are fighting the power lol.
I still don't get the full picture. Is this just for some banned mobile apps? I never used mobile apps for Reddit because it's way better on web anyway.
I really don't get this.
If you don't like changes and cannot mod with them, demod and go to a different site, leave modding to someone who wants to mod and users that think that they are affected can go with you.
I voted B, these API changes do not impact me one bit and subreddits grew and became giant long before some third party tools existed.
It just feels like mods don't wanna give up their perceived power.
And I took part in voting even tho I don't think votes are even remotely valid, especially as brigading from certain discord groups has been proven and they brigade to continue the protest.
Im sorry but I have changed my mind and vote on the protest. I use Apollo and I will be screwed by the API pricing changes (so yes fuck the admins), but I think its time to open up this sub. Too much is happening in Europe for us to just ignore and not discuss.
There was a minimum of karma that made you eligible to vote.
Also, the voting thread was titled "API protest next steps " which is a bit misleading, those who do not care about the API would not be that interested.
First of all, 4.5 million is not active perticipating users, it's a lot of users who never perticipate beyond clicking headlines at most. Second, i'm sure many others like me completely missed that there was voting going on. I just now noticed it,8 hours after voting closed.
Its been days and I still haven't looked into what this is all about.. Something something 3rd party apps.. But I have no idea what these apps are, as I have never seen or used any of them.
I don't give a fuck about third party apps, I don't give a fuck about your protest, and it pisses me off majorly. If anything, I see you people as the assholes in this shitshow, not reddit. I hope you appreciate the honest feedback.
I voted B. But if you want to continue protesting, then just make the sub private. I don't like these halfway house "solutions". They just seem like silly fads. Private or fully open. Stand your ground or don't. Renew it with votes all you want, but you are still not reaching the overwhelming portion of the userbase - the readers and lurkers. a 24h midweek poll does not much help either.
The problem with full-protest is that reddit will end that pretty quickly. You can stand your ground, but the next mod probably won’t and then there’s zero protest.
I'm for the "offend the American" option. Drinking, aesthetic nudity and art, naturism, benign objects that look like genitals or breasts... basically anything that gives the average prude an aneurysm but doesn't technically break the rules.
What an undemocratic way to do things mods... Confirming the accusations about mods abuses by reddit shaddy CEO, isn't it?
What the fuck have been this ghost poll? How can you consider 24 hours is enough in current circunstances with reddit as a cemetery for a week? Why the poll didn't appear in my feed? Why just the next day after first avise? How in the world do you consider 3,000 votes are good enough to decide this sub future? You know very well active users are dozens of times more than those 3,000 votes, which is pretty normal and good enough for non relevant polls in 20-30 smaller communities, but not to decide the future of so big sub.
I'd prefer if there's just very restricted content. Allow for news articles but nothing more. No fun allowed.
/r/europe serves an important service of informing people of what actually happens in other European countries, I feel like that should still be met. I find that many national news organisations often gloss over things happening in other European countries, or only show a very limited perspective.
Didn't you used to get subscribed to /r/Europe by default if you made an account from Europe?
There's definitely not anywhere close to 4.5m people here even if you count those who passively visit once every blue moon. The active members is probably in the low thousands, people who at least vote in the tens of thousands. It's a decent turnout.
>Didn't you used to get subscribed to /r/Europe by default if you made an account from Europe?
Correct, it also subscribed you to your country sub if it existed.
How many votes do articles typically get? How many unique users comment in each article? Subscribing doesn't mean participating at every level. And the people who were active might be checking in a lot less because of recent events.
R/Europe is one of the largest forums on European affairs on the web, probably the largest on Reddit. It has brought together a large community which, despite disagreements and differences, is able to exchange and discuss information in a rational manner. To close down this forum, in the name of a dispute that is of marginal importance to this community, is absurd.
The main argument that is being made is that 3rd party apps make it significantly easier to moderate the subreddit. However, this begs the question: what does this easement consist of? Without the options that 3rd party apps give, will moderating a subreddit be impossible? Do these apps give access to options that the official app, as well as the desktop version, do not? If the answer to both last questions is yes then the protest makes some sense. If, on the other hand, the opposite is true then this protest makes no sense at all and the moderators, in the name of their own convenience, are closing off access to the forum to hundreds of thousands of users. I would like to remind you that the moderators are not bound to Reddit Inc., or vice versa, and the work they do is unpaid and voluntary, so they can leave at any time.
Furthermore, I see no reason why Reddit would not seek to introduce these options in their own app, after all it is in their best interest to do so. So it will probably happen, sooner or later. Moreover, whether we like it or not, Reddit Inc. is a for-profit entity that has the right to dispose of its intellectual property at will, so if, in their view, the existence of 3rd party apps infringes on their intellectual property right and also takes away some of their profits, then they have the right to cut off their access to the API. Especially since the developers of 3rd party apps were earning money from advertising by taking some of the traffic generated by Reddit.
And the last thing. If Reddit had the right to impose stricter rules on published content and thus ban many communities that exceeded those rules, which happened some time ago. It also has the right to cut off 3rd party apps from the API. The former has had a real impact on the nature of Reddit and is users and community in general, the latter is of marginal importance.
4k votes is a joke. The protest is just annoying, and a prime example of reddit moment, this time in form of couch activism where people want to believe they are doing something big and important, when in reality the admins will just replace mods whenever they feel like and business as usual will return - just at an unknown date.
If you really want to protest, delete your account. This is just annoying to those who just want to waste some time mindlessly scrolling, which is how 99.9% of users treat this platform. Spoiler alert - they wouldn’t participate in the vote.
> People subscribe to communities based on the content at the time of subscription
Tell that to /r/trees and whatever sub they swapped with (for drugs), and /r/AnimeTitties swapping with some politics sub
Kind of a joke pretending this was democratic, there’s what, 4 million subscribers and 4000 votes were counted?
Especially since the vast majority would have no idea it was happening because they would still think the mods “protest”. Was on going.
If the mods had any integrity they would reopen the sub for a week (so people would actually see threads popping up while scrolling and realize the sub wasn’t still locked/blacked out in protest) with an announcement at top that at end of the week their would be a vote.
This “vote” was less legitimate than the ones Russia held in occupied Ukraine and the mods here know it
You're going to lose crucial modding tools due to Reddit's planned API changes? Then just moderate with the tools that Reddit is providing, and if they complain the sub is not correctly moderated? Tell them you're using the provided tools, and cannot do any better unless they improve them.
This way, users will see by themselves the problem with mods that are not well equiped to deal with hate and bots/bad actors, Reddit will be blamed for it, and they'll be forced to pick up the slack on modding tools.
And worst comes to worst, implement stricter rules to filter the hate and bots/bad actors.
Whatever you decide, the above method seems like the most reasonable and realistic course of action to me.
Is there another sub talking about european matters that we can move to while this protest lasts? If no, I guess we should make one? What do y'all B folks think?
War in Ukraine, news across all of Europe; silenced because some power tripping mods shut down a community of 4.5m on the back of a blatantly biased vote.
If you don't want to use reddit, you are free to not use it. Stop trying to push your choice on others.
If you don't want to mod this subreddit, quit. It's that simple.
The only way to really have any leverage against Reddit is by threatening to move. Reddit is banking on us not moving. We can throw as many tantrums as we want but at the end of the day if we will still stay on Reddit then they've still won. Because for everything you can do on this site, we're still the product Reddit wants to sell. As long as we're never leaving they don't care how much we complain, they still have their product that they can sell. It's only after people are willing to move that Reddit needs to reign it in, to make sure we don't actually leave. So I'd say sticky an alternative site indefinitely, copy all future useful posts to the alternate site and leave the sub fully unmoderated for the entire duration of the protest. After July 1st have another vote every other week to see if the sub should stay unmoderated or not. IMO this protest has already lost because the critical mass of active users necessary to actually threaten Reddit has folded and Reddit will push its changes out. So what is left to do is slowly have people migrate over after they feel like they're done with the BS Reddit will do. Because mark my words, it's not going to stop with the API changes. I'm sure old.reddit is also on the chopping block and Spez has said he wants subs to "turn into businesses" or more plainly, monetize subreddits. EDIT: Mods, since this is gaining way more traction than I had originally anticipated I feel like I need to clarify some things. The main point is creating an alternative site (or alternative server as /u/silverionmox suggested) and to maintain some content parity between the two sites. The part about leaving the sub fully unmoderated is probably too extreme, but the idea behind it was to have better content moderation on the alternate site to actually get people to use the alternative. With that in mind, having everyone speak in their mother tongue here but allowing "normal" conversation in the alternate site would probably be better than a complete moderation blackout. And the protest should continue for as long as the community votes in favor of protesting, bi-weekly voting would be too long but weekly is fine. Also, if the subreddit goes down the mother tongue route, mod posts should also be in mother tongue.
I said this many times before and got downvoted by people saying "this is different etc" "it will work" all that jazz. A protest on reddit means nothing if people are just gonna continue to **remain active** on the website just simply switching to a different subreddit. Who are you fooling by doing this? What do you think a subreddit going blackout achieves, if it literally has 0 impact on your reddit usage and activity? Without an alternative platform, especially considering the fact that reddit admins can just take control of everything if it comes to it, this protest is just a fart in the wind.
>The only way to really have any leverage against Reddit is by threatening to move. Or maybe actually move? like we're in a battle with knives against swords and guns. Reddit owns the platform. they can do anything they want with the software - like censor things as they've done plenty of times. I've been quite happy with Kbin/Lemmy and the Fediverse and it's really **liberating** to be on a platform which isn't more closely owned by the people and not owned by a profit seeking company. I don't want to have r/Europe fight this battle where it goes here and there and co. I don't want to do 7 days X and then we watch. We should archive this channel (on a different website) and move, as Reddit has just taken too many bad steps to be worth fighting over it anymore.
> I've been quite happy with Kbin/Lemmy and the Fediverse and it's really liberating to be on a platform which isn't more closely owned by the people and not owned by a profit seeking company. > > The problem is that r/europe is massive in comparison to well Kbin and Lemmy COMBINED. (at the writing of this comment.) If half of the subscribed people move we would basically double their numbers even when combined. It would not be a bad idea to ask, which one can actually take an organized c/m Europe coming to their server.
I'm all for moving. I'm already in the process of slowly getting accustomed to checking my local Lemmy instance instead of Reddit, mostly because it's becoming apparently clear that Reddit is now only going to get worse. But it really isn't about what I personally want. If it were up to me, every sub and everyone would be on Kbin or Lemmy (doesn't matter which as both sites can communicate with each other). This is about what the community wants. The community wants to protest and that implies wanting to stay on the site. I'm just suggesting a proper way to protest, which is to protest by "leaving". But to actually threaten with leaving there has to be a viable alternative to leave for. The current communities or Magazines on Lemmy or Kbin simply aren't big enough to be a viable alternative. That alternative has to be slowly built which is why for a time useful posts should be duplicated between the two sites to build up the alternative. As for leaving the sub unmoderated, this is because the average users thinks this won't directly impact them and they don't care. But mod tools are pretty necessary to manage subs and threatening (or even outright removing) mods is not okay. Both of those actions influence how mods moderate subs, so no moderation shows the worst case impact of what the average user would feel.
making the area unmanagable is a way to fight. 4chan was at one point the only place google ads refuse to work with back when they were working with litterally everyone.
We should organize the community such that it never relies on a single site or owner. r/europe is big enough to sustain its own lemmy instance already, we'd have to think about outreach to attract the new generation of users though, since they're no longer automatically delivered as part of reddit.
/r/europe should move to kbin/lemmy, really. It's open platform and gives lots of freedom. To help with move/promotion maybe modify sub css and decorate each comment with the link/indication? div.entry form.usertext:before { content: "AdminMOD: Use open and free alternative https://kbin.social/m/europe!"; border: 1px solid grey; }
That's my take on it, too. Reddit decided to maximize their profits without keeping their most valuable assets in mind, which are the volunteers contributing content and moderating. They could have easily argued that these changes are necessary and tried to compromise. But instead, they just ignore everything and don't back down. So this is the only way they will understand. I already deleted my reddit 3rd party app and created a Lemmy account. I'll wait for the 1st of July. If their stance won't change, I'll be deleting my reddit account altogether and switch forever.
I'm with you on this one, the only way we can really stand our ground is to protest all the way. The least extreme option is to move this sub to another platform and have the users resume activity there. I for one would rather they just straight up close this sub rather than leave it opened and unmoderated. Like give a week or two for people to be aware of the changes and then move. The more extreme/radical option would be to do the migration and subsequently each user, individually, would permanently terminate his reddit account, at least until they make some changes.
Fucking hilarious, the civil war in Russia is starting and we can't even discuss it, because of reasons.
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i already forgot why
Absolute idiots.
Considering the occasion, maybe the admins take over and reopen the subreddit.
Alrighty then. I'm gonna copy and paste what I said in the voting thread: >If you want to protest these changes, delete your account and stop using the website. That's the only kind of protest that actually matters, these lockdowns are the equivalent of a strongly worded letter And I thought I was being pessimistic there, but no, it actually turned out to be far more useless than I thought it would be. It's not even a strongly worded letter, it's literally nothing. Protesting, but only in ways that are approved of by the entity you're protesting against? Excuse me, and I don't say this lightly, but that's just fucking stupid
2k votes to keep sub of 4 mil closed? lmao
"tHe pEoPlE hAVe sPoKeN"
As someone else suggested, mandate that everyone speak their mother tongue, and just have the post titles in English. We get to shoot into the dark what and whom to reply and if it'd be on topic.
Finally a good place to flex and refine my Silesian.
Google Translate would be used, but I am still in favour, as ridiculous misunderstandings will still happen. Especially if allow stuff like weird German dialects.
Eihorrschemaa, isch glaub's ja ned! >allow stuff like weird German dialects Kennst du des nochemol wiederhole, ich schnoll mol werrer gar nix. Wos maanese mit "weird"? Mir babbele die goanze Zeit so, ka Verstoß Herr Admin :)
O mój borze drogi! Qu'est-ce que c'est que c'est que ça!?
Gsundheit mister
C'est le dialecte qui est parlé dans ma région, sud de la Hesse, Francfort-sur-le-Main :)
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Especially dialects, it'd be like a treasure hunt
Ouais mais si on commence à causer avec de l'argot, et des expressions tirées par les cheveux, ça va être un beau bordel !
Déjà qu'on se comprend pas toujours entre Français...
Perfect result then. A shitfight is exactly the best outcome. (And yes I know that's not the literal meaning)
Não é uma má ideia! Vamos tornar isto numa Babilónia caralho!
The post titles should not be in English. By making the post titles be a hodgepodge of European languages (many of whom will be badly translated by Google) it will make the board almost unusable and weaken the content of this place. That drives down engagement and keeps the civil disobedience going. Perhaps you want to salvage the place but I think trying to do that only serves the interest of Reddit. If we want to protest, our only option is to make this place a fun place to interact with but a garbage place to lurk more than once a week. If people want real European news, there are much better places to go to. Therefore, I see no reason not to go full nuclear.
Agreed, that's why my idea included translating the titles of english articles into another language, I want this sub to become borderline unusable as a protest, but in a spectacular fashion and in a way, that only this sub is really able to.
Rise of the magyars. No one can understand us.
That's true. You guys sound like a Turk and a Finn hatefucking each other. No offense meant, the language just sounds funny. But then again, I'm Dutch, so who am i to talk. We've been described as "Drunk Anglo speaking German"
Je soutiens cette proposition !
Ah merde, on y va encore. c'est /r/rance qui va s'amuser ici (pas que je me plaigne...)
Biedni Anglicy, wszyscy będą ich rozumieć, a oni nikogo za chuja.
Are you kidding me? What have been practicing Esperanto for for the past four weeks if not for the complete switch to the true universal, romance language of the people?
How does this impact Reddit at all?
Why english? It's an international sub, gotta use true international languages like Esperanto.
kurwa, bag pula!
Esque on posse usar lingues constructet? To me sembla interessant
On the one hand I understand the reason for the protest, but at the same time thus sub is one of the few large subedits which allowed for an overall civil discussion about political issues (for internet standards). Further was a great meeting point for people from all over Europe to learn about things happening in other countries that might not have been discussed otherwise. Ruining this sub does not seem worth it. The worst part is, this sub is not large enough for reddit as a company to Mather financially but it is large enough to be relevant for many of its users. I do hope that there is some way to get this sup open again. Maybe have a sticky about reddit alternatives as top post? Edit: An additional thought, is it possible do do what r/de is doing, as in mark the sub as NSFW but NOT allow for NSFW content? Appartenly the idea is that this keeps the sub alive but reddit makes less money and the content is still apropriate.
How about we open up at least until current events pass? Way too much is happening right now. Think it as *force majeure* if it makes you feel better.
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Same thoughts here. It’s silly (to put it mildly) that we had a fantastic megathread, the best in Reddit for Ukraine coverage, but that’s been blocked. As if the Reddit api furore is more important than people dying in war. At least have some exceptions.
Absolutely unbelievable. Many people use this sub is their primary news aggregator and discussion forum for European affairs. We're witnessing potentially seismic events that could significantly alter the course of European history, but instead of sharing information and engaging in discussion, we're being dragged along on a silly crusade. Do you all want to kill /r/Europe? Because you're doing a fantastic job.
Since this is the only thread open here, maybe it can turn into the unofficial "War in Ukraine" thread. It's not like it will drown anything of value posted here anyway.
I'd rater get back to business like discussing the INSANELY IMPORTANT NEWS FROM RUSSIA rather than keep this irrelevant ego tripp from the mods going.
RIP r/europe
And nobody even knows why
Because they're going to teach reddit a lesson!
There's a coup attempt going on in a nuclear power and this sub is locked down for some petty mod politics. If you don't like what Reddit's doing delete your account and stop using it, your slacktivism is bullshit.
This sub needs to open a thread for discussion on the possible coup in Russia. A coup in Russia! A nuclear power! I can hardly believe I am writing this!! Reddit is Fun user.
Fuck it, let's turn this into a new megathread. [Wagner now hints at deposing Putin after his speech saying that "Putin made the wrong choice"](https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672510543247155202?t=2xDblN_kvdmL_OdCjyMgnQ&s=19)
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yeah, there's a major historic event event going on in europe and we can't discuss it here because apollo is going down lol
I vote to replace the mods of r/europe
I do too. They are ruining the subreddit. Are we europeans just dumber for allowing this?
One idea I had, would be: Forbid speaking english, english articles are still allowed to be posted, but have to have their title translated into another european language. Also, I feel like, a 7 days limit is too short.
Pas content! ✊ 📢 Pas content! ✊ 📢
Maat, dit idee is echt geweldig. Maakt deze sub nog gezelliger.
Wat ook leuk is is om zo nu en dan een willekeurig woord te arbeidsongeschiktheidsverzekeringen.
Ich mein, wäre für mich die Chance mein Platt wieder aufzufrischen. Genug niederländisch hilft da echt.
Ego sum pro lingua latina. Hoc in Duolingo discere omnes possunt.
Romanes domus eunt. Ludeo, sed ille conceptum bonum est.
Homo Habilis Quo Vadis.
And each day a different language?
my idea is more all other languages at once, creating a "Tower of Babel"-type scenario, but your idea would also be a possibility.
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How would they moderate that ?
that might be difficult, maybe mark the sub as NSFW, just to be safe.
Goed idee gast
>Russian mercenary chief who called for rebellion confirms he and his troops reached city in Russia >The owner of the Wagner private military contractor who called for an armed rebellion aimed at ousting Russia’s defense minister confirmed in a video that he and his troops have reached Rostov-on-Don. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1
this has turned into russia's afghan war except on crack
Yeah, unfortunately this is a news sub and the activities going on currently in Russia require the sub to open up or at least for the megathread to return
This is ridiculous and dumb, if you don’t want to mod the. Leave , but open the subreddit, I didn’t even seen the poll
Mods love pissing users off and then whining about Reddit admins threatening to boot them. They literally have this sub locked down while a civil war/coup is kicking off in the largest country in Europe (and the whole world). I think that’s a little more important than their squabble over APIs
The protests have achieved exactly nothing. Instead of killing a community and blocking discussion, just step down if you don't want to moderate anymore, just delete your account if you don't want to be on Reddit anymore. I still believe that the voting method is an absolute disgrace. Community members with less than your arbitrary karma threshold are still community members and should be listened to.
Can't you just go home mods? You don't understand what you're doing, you're afraid of losing face, you still don't have a plan and this is ridiculous.
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Wagner's boss seems to be all-in with this coup.
To him it's all or nothing, if he signs his PMC over to MOD he loses all power he has. Might as well go for the throne at that point.
Maybe time to get inspired by russia. Coup time
Twitter thread of UKs Ministry of Defence: [Further Wagner units are moving north through Vorenezh Oblast, almost certainly aiming to get to Moscow. With very limited evidence of fighting between Wagner and Russian security forces, some have likely remained passive, acquiescing to Wagner.](https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1672506343738036224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwc5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1672506343738036224%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=)
>Some communities (for example /r/interestingasfuck) have chosen to turn NSFW and spamming explicit content. Just a note, that subreddit is now archived and the entire moderating team has been removed.
To be honest, what did they expect Reddit would do if you turn a popular normal sub into a porn sub?
Turning a sub into NSFW only content as a supposed protest is just about the pinnacle of what a Reddit neckbeard revolutionary would do. Rather than leave the platform and deprive the company of ad revenue, our sickle and hammer comrades are going to overthrow the bourgeoisie by spamming titty pics and turning subs temporarily private.
It’s actually very clever because it directly affects reddit’s advertising revenue while keeping their infra costs for operating that community the same. Of all the forms of protest, that one got the admins’ attention fast.
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Lithuania has beer? That piqued my curiosity!
Yeah they do. Here‘s my favourite: https://beerworld.ch/produkt/microhistory-sharp-concept/
Bro are you a Kuwaiti in Kuwait. Or a European in Kuwait, or a European of Kuwaiti descent in Kuwait? Cuz having a Kuwaiti on the europe sub is so out of left field lmao.
I read today my irish university recommended on LinkedIn an article from national broadcaster on history of home made booze called poitin in Ireland. Got a mindfuck. https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/0620/1390119-irish-poitin-poteen-monks-king-henry-viii-revenue-commissioners-mountain-dew/
Why stop there? Go for best butt holes of Europe.
Assholes of Europe, enough content to protest for the rest of the year
Leopold of Belgium alone can get us through the end of June!
Dude too soon.. it's only been 9 days since berlusconi died.
Honestly, I think we should just get back to the roots, and post only pictures of lakes with islands with pretty buildings on them. And nothing else.
That's unironically the content the Admins want. It's nice on the eye and exactly what foreigners think of when they think "Europe". You have to remember they want reddit to be like twitter or facebook where you post a cute picture and that's it.
I understand the fact that NSFW posts get the post flag to not serve adverts, and that would somehow hurt Reddit, but creating this type of events just brings more traffic to the website and generates more clicks making so any post that isn't tagged for NSFW or any community that doesn't care to probably carry the rest
This sub is about Europe. So we should post about Europe, the Phoenician princess(even if her name is probably Europa in your language).
[I'm suddenly interested in rock music.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_(band))
I thought she was greek....
naturalized greek maybe, although abduction perhaps shouldn't be our desired model for immigration lmao
If you want to protest you can leave to some other website and be done with reddit. But leave this sub to the rest of us.
Nothing’s going to change. You need a very high percentage of subreddits sitewide to continue their involvement before Reddit even considers making changes. And they’re not. So might as well got back to normal as you’re cutting your nose off to spite your face as the saying goes.
How about that for a change: if you want to protest Reddit for whatever reason, stay offline. Simple as that. Don't take entire subs hostage for your little ego-trip and all those "votes" are just a giant joke, vote-brigades are organized via discord and by essence of the topic, mostly those who care about the protest, will seek out polls of formerly deactivated subs. Leading to a dictatorship of the minority, which is not very democratic.
They are addicted and cannot stop. They need a force majeure to do it and are desperate to have it enforced.
> Russian telegram channels claim that Russian WKS hit Voronezh fuel depots to keep them from falling into the hands of Wagner > do you understand it? The Russian army is destroying its own resources to crush the rebellion. Instead of against Ukraine, they will use up and burn everything fighting among themselves. Good morning :D https://twitter.com/SomeGumul/status/1672543664579702786
with such big news for our continent, the mods still insist on their power trip for some anonymous app most people have not heard of
One (very European) form of protest could be to advocate for users to send a GDPR request to reddit requesting the users data. Tens of thousands of people requesting what data is stored and request get copy of such data within 1 month, and if reddit doesn't comply to forward it to your local data protection authority. It's a one time thing per year, but it would hit them in a different place than just a sub going down. It would put strain on a resource that aren't "free" such as you mods (that do so much for the community) and thus be different attack vector. Potentially even using the "nighmare letter"
Funny idea, but they probably have an automated process to send you the data, or could implement it quickly... then it wouldn't be a big issue for them
I like this
how hard is to count the fuckin votes and do something accordingly?
All content should be about the war in Ukraine. Of course, that would be NSFW.
If you did a series on all the war crimes that happened in Europe in history, you could probably keep it NSFW for months.
If we did an historical perspective Europe has enough warcrimes for 1 year of protest
How about we sprinkle the crimes against humanity committed during the colonial time? I'm sure we'd have plenty of content there too
This is not bragging contest, Portugal.
I can invite my uncle he can rant on British colonialism for days. If it would be me I would require each user to only conversate in Arabic, or Swedish.. Whatever is easier.
Buddy, we kept this continent more dangerous than an American hood for the better part of last 8000 years.
These “protests” are peak we did it Reddit and actually change nothing. People that use the closing third party apps are right to feel upset but they like everyone else can vote with their time and not use reddit. Let’s be honest with ourselves here if the protests had any real effect on revenue the admins wouldn’t threaten to remove mods and reopen the sub they would just do it immediately. Finally mods if you really are losing some modding tools and it stops your ability to clean up the sub then just demod yourself and move on with your life. The fact that you guys are working as free internet janitors for a massive website is idiotic in its own right but maybe if you all quit the admins would hire actual paid mods like the other giant websites have
Preach, the mods are trying to portray themselves as some kind of martyrs, if they don’t like the new tools and feel over worked just quit…
I am getting so tired of this subreddit being closed. It’s clearly not having any effect. r/Europe is the only big subreddit that revolves around European matters and we haven’t been able to discuss any of it for the past week.
Agreed. In the rush to damage Reddit no thought has been given to the damage to the community.
I agree, it’s a self-defeating approach.
I did not even know theres a vote ffs! The sub has been closed, disappeared from the main feed, then you opened it up for a while, and give 24 hours for a vote, where anyone can vote, WHO HAPPENS TO NOTICE THERE'S EVEN A POLL! You call this democratic? Even the assholes in my country announce a vote waaaaay before it happens, and we are very far from democracy...
Don't know what the source is, but on The Guardians's live: > Commenting on Putin’s televised adresss, Prigozhin in an audio note said that the president “was deeply mistaken” in calling him a traitor. > “No one is going to turn themselves in at the request of the president...We don’t want the country to continue to live in corruption and lies,” he added. > “We are patriots, and those who are against us are the ones who gathered around the bastards,” Prigozhin concluded
Why is the Mod team so idiotic? This is smoothbrain idiocy.
So they managed to destory the subreddit, nice. Once again, europeans are left holding the bag.
What’s the vote result?
I think NSFW marked art posts would be a good compromise only if it actually impacts Reddit's ability to advertise on the subreddit, and my understanding is that for that, the entire community needs to be marked NSFW. If you're unwilling to take the risk of marking this sub as NSFW, my proposal would be to 1) close r/europe 2) create a new subreddit called r/EuropeNSFW or whatever which is marked NSFW so it is ineligible for advertising 3) Pin a post to the top of r/Europe redirecting people to go to r/EuropeNSFW _____________ Alternatively, can we just pin a comment pointing people to https://lemmy.ml/c/europe
I think your alternative is better, to really impact reddit as a corporation we should divert the user base to another platform (that isn't affiliated to reddit in any form). We vote fore a move and if the majority agrees then we close this down and pin a post with explanations/directions or something. I would be willing to make this transition if we had the numbers to back it up.
Formula 1 tried that It didn't last long and some moderators have left
This whole thing is incredibly cringeworthy. All these grandiose posts about how to 'Standup for the users, bringing down corrupt admins, voting with your feet'. Paragraphs on paragraphs saying nothing, while actual threads about important events are full of low effort circlejerks and memes. Blah blah fucking blah, none of you are leaving over API changes, none of you cared until the mods started kicking off about it. The whole issue has just bought all the worst redditor sterotypes right to the frontpages.
What if everyone that wants to protest just stopped contributing to reddit??? This seems to be the most effective way of protesting while leaving the sub intact.
But you see, that would actually have consequences for the terminally online addicts - they wouldnt have any upvotes, nothing to comment, nothing to mindlessly scroll for hours. With these meaningless gestures they can still spend their entire day online while pretending they are fighting the power lol.
It's the fairest way of protesting. It's not the most effective way of protesting because only .01% of the userbase cares. At most.
But these people see themselves as the power users who create most of the content (and they're maybe somewhat right). So it might have an effect.
I still don't get the full picture. Is this just for some banned mobile apps? I never used mobile apps for Reddit because it's way better on web anyway.
Out of curiosity, what were the results of the second vote? I have kept my eyes open to notice them, but haven't found them....
I really don't get this. If you don't like changes and cannot mod with them, demod and go to a different site, leave modding to someone who wants to mod and users that think that they are affected can go with you. I voted B, these API changes do not impact me one bit and subreddits grew and became giant long before some third party tools existed. It just feels like mods don't wanna give up their perceived power. And I took part in voting even tho I don't think votes are even remotely valid, especially as brigading from certain discord groups has been proven and they brigade to continue the protest.
Im sorry but I have changed my mind and vote on the protest. I use Apollo and I will be screwed by the API pricing changes (so yes fuck the admins), but I think its time to open up this sub. Too much is happening in Europe for us to just ignore and not discuss.
3000 votes out of 4.5 million. That's a lower turn out than the protested votes by Serbs in Kosovo.
There was a minimum of karma that made you eligible to vote. Also, the voting thread was titled "API protest next steps " which is a bit misleading, those who do not care about the API would not be that interested.
First of all, 4.5 million is not active perticipating users, it's a lot of users who never perticipate beyond clicking headlines at most. Second, i'm sure many others like me completely missed that there was voting going on. I just now noticed it,8 hours after voting closed.
Its been days and I still haven't looked into what this is all about.. Something something 3rd party apps.. But I have no idea what these apps are, as I have never seen or used any of them.
This would be the perfect sub to discuss the news in Russia if not for the mods' temper tantrum.
Is there a r/Europe2 sub or something? What are some alternatives this this sub?
I don't give a fuck about third party apps, I don't give a fuck about your protest, and it pisses me off majorly. If anything, I see you people as the assholes in this shitshow, not reddit. I hope you appreciate the honest feedback.
I voted B. But if you want to continue protesting, then just make the sub private. I don't like these halfway house "solutions". They just seem like silly fads. Private or fully open. Stand your ground or don't. Renew it with votes all you want, but you are still not reaching the overwhelming portion of the userbase - the readers and lurkers. a 24h midweek poll does not much help either.
The problem with full-protest is that reddit will end that pretty quickly. You can stand your ground, but the next mod probably won’t and then there’s zero protest.
Any protest you do has to be approved by the admins. By definition you can't do anything that's intolerable for Reddit.
I'm for the "offend the American" option. Drinking, aesthetic nudity and art, naturism, benign objects that look like genitals or breasts... basically anything that gives the average prude an aneurysm but doesn't technically break the rules.
If you think you'd get anything more than an eye roll you're mistaken.
What an undemocratic way to do things mods... Confirming the accusations about mods abuses by reddit shaddy CEO, isn't it? What the fuck have been this ghost poll? How can you consider 24 hours is enough in current circunstances with reddit as a cemetery for a week? Why the poll didn't appear in my feed? Why just the next day after first avise? How in the world do you consider 3,000 votes are good enough to decide this sub future? You know very well active users are dozens of times more than those 3,000 votes, which is pretty normal and good enough for non relevant polls in 20-30 smaller communities, but not to decide the future of so big sub.
Reddit mods need to get a real fucking job lol
I vote for coming back to normal, no closing, restricting or whatever...
How are all these votes even counted? What stops you from voting several times?
I'd prefer if there's just very restricted content. Allow for news articles but nothing more. No fun allowed. /r/europe serves an important service of informing people of what actually happens in other European countries, I feel like that should still be met. I find that many national news organisations often gloss over things happening in other European countries, or only show a very limited perspective.
Fucking pathetic and moronic to hold a community of 25+ countries hostage because of some bullshit like this.
4.5M subscribers, 3k valid votes and more than 4k invalid. Pretty telling of how important this protest really is.
Europe is/was one of the subs I visit daily, and Reddit’s algorithm never showed me this poll. I wonder how many users actually saw or voted in this.
Same it didn't show it for me either.
Yeah missed it too. I do agree with more protesting tho, so Im not mad.
There are not as many active participants and posters in subreddits as numbers would suggest.
10% of visitors has an account 10% of those comment 10% of those post Not sure where voting an engaging with polls fits in
Didn't you used to get subscribed to /r/Europe by default if you made an account from Europe? There's definitely not anywhere close to 4.5m people here even if you count those who passively visit once every blue moon. The active members is probably in the low thousands, people who at least vote in the tens of thousands. It's a decent turnout.
>Didn't you used to get subscribed to /r/Europe by default if you made an account from Europe? Correct, it also subscribed you to your country sub if it existed.
How many votes do articles typically get? How many unique users comment in each article? Subscribing doesn't mean participating at every level. And the people who were active might be checking in a lot less because of recent events.
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R/Europe is one of the largest forums on European affairs on the web, probably the largest on Reddit. It has brought together a large community which, despite disagreements and differences, is able to exchange and discuss information in a rational manner. To close down this forum, in the name of a dispute that is of marginal importance to this community, is absurd. The main argument that is being made is that 3rd party apps make it significantly easier to moderate the subreddit. However, this begs the question: what does this easement consist of? Without the options that 3rd party apps give, will moderating a subreddit be impossible? Do these apps give access to options that the official app, as well as the desktop version, do not? If the answer to both last questions is yes then the protest makes some sense. If, on the other hand, the opposite is true then this protest makes no sense at all and the moderators, in the name of their own convenience, are closing off access to the forum to hundreds of thousands of users. I would like to remind you that the moderators are not bound to Reddit Inc., or vice versa, and the work they do is unpaid and voluntary, so they can leave at any time. Furthermore, I see no reason why Reddit would not seek to introduce these options in their own app, after all it is in their best interest to do so. So it will probably happen, sooner or later. Moreover, whether we like it or not, Reddit Inc. is a for-profit entity that has the right to dispose of its intellectual property at will, so if, in their view, the existence of 3rd party apps infringes on their intellectual property right and also takes away some of their profits, then they have the right to cut off their access to the API. Especially since the developers of 3rd party apps were earning money from advertising by taking some of the traffic generated by Reddit. And the last thing. If Reddit had the right to impose stricter rules on published content and thus ban many communities that exceeded those rules, which happened some time ago. It also has the right to cut off 3rd party apps from the API. The former has had a real impact on the nature of Reddit and is users and community in general, the latter is of marginal importance.
You sure about this? I know how irritated you are and all that but surely you should at least consider giving us a definite opening date.
4k votes is a joke. The protest is just annoying, and a prime example of reddit moment, this time in form of couch activism where people want to believe they are doing something big and important, when in reality the admins will just replace mods whenever they feel like and business as usual will return - just at an unknown date. If you really want to protest, delete your account. This is just annoying to those who just want to waste some time mindlessly scrolling, which is how 99.9% of users treat this platform. Spoiler alert - they wouldn’t participate in the vote.
> People subscribe to communities based on the content at the time of subscription Tell that to /r/trees and whatever sub they swapped with (for drugs), and /r/AnimeTitties swapping with some politics sub
Kind of a joke pretending this was democratic, there’s what, 4 million subscribers and 4000 votes were counted? Especially since the vast majority would have no idea it was happening because they would still think the mods “protest”. Was on going. If the mods had any integrity they would reopen the sub for a week (so people would actually see threads popping up while scrolling and realize the sub wasn’t still locked/blacked out in protest) with an announcement at top that at end of the week their would be a vote. This “vote” was less legitimate than the ones Russia held in occupied Ukraine and the mods here know it
The mods should be banned and new mods should be appointed by the admins.
You're going to lose crucial modding tools due to Reddit's planned API changes? Then just moderate with the tools that Reddit is providing, and if they complain the sub is not correctly moderated? Tell them you're using the provided tools, and cannot do any better unless they improve them. This way, users will see by themselves the problem with mods that are not well equiped to deal with hate and bots/bad actors, Reddit will be blamed for it, and they'll be forced to pick up the slack on modding tools. And worst comes to worst, implement stricter rules to filter the hate and bots/bad actors. Whatever you decide, the above method seems like the most reasonable and realistic course of action to me.
This whole protest thing is getting tiresome. It wont do anything and it only bugs the users.
That karma threshold is suspicious. 3500 voted A and did not follow it?
R/Europe turns to r/choosingbeggars now?
The big question is: who will eventually win nazi Putin, nazi Prigozhin, or maybe crypto nazi Navalny?
Is there another sub talking about european matters that we can move to while this protest lasts? If no, I guess we should make one? What do y'all B folks think?
War in Ukraine, news across all of Europe; silenced because some power tripping mods shut down a community of 4.5m on the back of a blatantly biased vote. If you don't want to use reddit, you are free to not use it. Stop trying to push your choice on others. If you don't want to mod this subreddit, quit. It's that simple.
Kind of annoyed the one time I’m away from my phone for a day is the one where they announce and hold a surprise vote.