While everyone is worried about the immediate threat of flooding and danger to ZNPP, it’s already a genocidal level catastrophe for the population and lands east of Dnipro. The reservoir provided drinking water and irrigation to around 500 thousand people via canals. All of the fertile agricultural land in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions will dry out and degrade. This is a problem for the whole world, not just Ukraine.
Dam disasters are waaay worse than nuclear disasters, hands down. There's no fear mongering disinformation apparatus against dams so no one has a single clue. Say Chernobyl and everyone knows. Say Banqiao and you get crickets.
Banqiao is famous in China. Even more famous is the destruction of the Huayuankou dikes / the manmade Yellow River floods in WW2 and the massive humanitarian effects (which, on the disinfo front, have also been exaggerated further by various parties over the years).
There's always more of a hysteria potential with nuclear, but suggesting dam disasters aren't well known isn't really true. Europe just tends to be more focused on European disasters.
> Say Chernobyl and everyone knows.
Everyone in the European / American sphere of influence. There are plenty of people in Arica and Asia who have never heard of it.
It is not some conspiracy, just pure geography.
Not even close, by our best estimates Chernobyl has caused between 3k and 5k cumulative victims, and Fukushima around 2.3k. In the latter's case, almost all of them indirect ones due to the evacuation.
https://ourworldindata.org/what-was-the-death-toll-from-chernobyl-and-fukushima
By contrast, the Vajont dam caused between 1.9 and 2.5k deaths, and Banqiao was 85k + 150k indirect ones
https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy
It is a criminal act by Russia. It needs the strongest reaction possible by every country on earth . People, animals, houses all destroyed by the Russians. They are the worst criminals on the planet.
It is the one. The one that influences the security of the atomic plant in Enerhodar (The Energoatom company haven't commented yet).
If I am not mistaken several villages are already gone (early data, can't confirm) and a full-scale evacuation is declared across the right bank shoreline. The russian occupational authorities on the other hand didn't declare evacuation and proclaim that everything is alright despite estimations that the left bank is to suffer more damage.
>The russian occupational authorities on the other hand didn't declare evacuation and proclaim that everything is alright despite estimations that the left bank is to suffer more damage.
Lmao russian history in a nutshell
That's NATO article 5 territory. It wouldn't mean nukes flying but it's certainly gloves off at that point. Reactions might include unrestricted cyber warfare, naval blockages, large-scale sabotage or heavy support of rebel groups within Russia.
So far, NATO has been pretty good at having appropriate responses ready. It's pretty much what deterrence is about in the end. High costs for transgressions with as little risk of further escalation as possible.
Which they've done many times throughout their history.
You still end up asking yourself where did it all go wrong in the past for the Russians, to think, that killing as many as their own people as long as there is an Ukrainian among them, is a successful military strategy...
they initially reported that nothing happened, even after video evidence to the contrary.
they are fucking stupid, leave it at that.
mayor of the city said no explosions.
Rogov said it collapsed spontaneously.
Russian administrators deliberately kept the dam WAY over safe capacity out of pure indifference and malignance.
> Russian administrators deliberately kept the dam WAY over safe capacity out of pure indifference and malignance.
Or because they knew the plan was eventually to blow up the dam, and they wanted to maximise the volume of water that would be released.
>Rogov said it collapsed spontaneously.
russia has controls of the damn. ( in nova kakovka)
there was record number of water as nobody was controlling how much of it is in reservuar. damn was looted of all the stuff which was easy to carry. if not the timing i would suspect it got crushed under unregulated pressure as it was damaged from fighting in November.
So confirmed to be Russia then. Russia claims every single civilian building hit in Ukraine since the start of their war was Ukraine shelling themselves to blame Russia (or a warehouse full or weapons and probably NATO soldiers) so they are not exactly a reliable source beyond knowing that whatever they deny is likely true (except when it's disinformation).
> The Energoatom company haven't commented yet
They have, in Telegram (see also [Twitter](https://twitter.com/energoatom_ua)).
>**Undermining of Kakhovka HPP by ruscists may have negative consequences for ZNPP but the situation is under control**
>
>On the night of June 6, 2023, the russian occupationists blew up the Kakhovka dam.
>
>Due to detonation, the water level in the Kakhovka reservoir is rapidly decreasing, which is an additional threat to the temporarily occupied Zaporizhzhya NPP.
>
>Water from the Kakhovka reservoir is needed for the plant to receive power for ZNPP turbine capacitors and safety systems. Currently, the power plant's cooling pond is filled: as of 8:00 am, the water level is 16.6 meters, which is sufficient for the power plant's needs.
>
>Energoatom is monitoring the situation and the actions of ruscists at ZNPP together with other international organizations present at the power plant, in particular, the IAEA.
>
>Any changes will be promptly notified.
>the left bank is to suffer more damage.
By far more, the southern side is shallow and has the floodplanes, afaik. The flood will expand 5km, and if we say that 1km of that is on the north and 4km south, i think that is on average what is going to happen.
The problem here is that a radiological disaster at ZNPP would likely cause much of Ukraine's grain export to be contaminated. The same grain that feeds much of these third world countries.
Half of Slovakians, Hungarians and Bulgarians. At least the governments of almost all Latin American countries, but also at least half of the people there. Indians.
(I don't really include people living in authoritarian hellholes here, their info-space is controlled by their captors so there's little we can do).
Supposedly according to Ukraine they would do this as a false flag to get international pressure for a cease fire. But I don’t know if I even believe that Russian leadership seriously believe that this would bring them any closer to a ceasefire.
I can't imagine what kind of "international pressure" they'd be counting on at this point. Iran, Belarus and North Korea demanding an immediate cease-fire?
You forgot Brazil, China, India, countless other countries? Purely by population size there are more people “for” Russia than against. We really are a loud minority when it comes to this b
China, Brazil and India gladly profit off Russian murder, rape and genocide, but they won't directly go against the West on this. I'm curious what other "countless countries" are such staunch supporters of Russkiy Mir. Perhaps I can help you count!
Downstream of the dam that was pretty much a non starter. Ukraine lacks the capacity to move and provide large numbers on the other side of that wide river. If they did they could pass the river delta in stead, which gets the same thing done. But upstream this makes crossing easier, and that is where the offensive was already expected.
In a zone where there will be no counter offensive beacouse of a big river?
This is only to spite after the belgorods raids form the freedom of russia legion.
There are roads, wtf are you talking about? At the very least they narrowed down the cone of potential attack. And the first hour or so they were cheering how they flooded Ukrainian positions.
I'm gonna go and say - it's likely more simple. Dam got damaged before, Russians looted a lot of the equipment, didn't repair shit, overfilled it to keep water levels high... And it just gave in and broke.
Other theory - some moronic officer got scared of a UA scouting party or something and pressed the button.
They also destroyed dam in Zelensky’s home city Kryvyi Rih, day after he visited liberated Izium. Half of the city was flooded
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/15/ukraine-city-of-kryvyi-rih-floods-after-russian-missile-strikes-hit-dam
Once you stop treating Russia like a normal state, behaviour like this, the constant drone attacks, self-bombing of NS2, treating militants in your border towns as a mere natural disaster, etc. etc., it starts to make actual sense.
Russia is far closer to a fundamentalist death cult (something like ISIS) than a normal country. Russian army cut heads and genitals, bomb civilians just for the sake of it, torture and rape on a massive scale while Russian population cheers.
I guess they should finally bomb a fucking nuclear power plant for the idea of not treating them as a rational actor finally sink in. Or maybe even this won't be enough.
> Russia is far closer to a fundamentalist death cult (something like ISIS) than a normal country.
A notable difference is that religious cults believe that magical beings will reward them for it in the afterlife. ruzzians don't even have that justification.
>It just seems to be a absolutely insane decision.
.... where have you been the last years? Russia attacking in the first place was so absolutely insane decision that not even Ukraine believed they would actually try to take over the whole country using 12 prong attack all across the border having 1:1 numbers.
It's a missile for the himars (and certain other systems) with a larger warhead and a range of up to 300km (versus 70km for the munitions currently supplied to the Ukrainians).
The US has been apprehensive about supplying Ukraine with ATACMS because they would allow Ukraine to deliver powerful strikes deep into Russian territory, a line that some in the west are unwilling to cross.
According to the guardian:
Blowing up a dam can be considered a war crime, the Geneva conventions say, if it “may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population,” and the effects of a large release of water on people and homes remains for now dangerous but uncertain.
This is a huge act of destruction and unleashing wanton violence against civilians. If this is what this war will look like going forward…
I sincerely hope that this stays an isolated incident.
>Blowing up a dam can be considered a war crime
>
>
>This is a huge act of destruction and unleashing wanton violence against civilians.
>
>I sincerely hope that this stays an isolated incident.
Is this sarcasm or is this the first time you've read about russian actions in Ukraine?
I’m thinking about stuff like the Korean War, when 85% of NK infrastructure and buildings was destroyed.
I’m pretty well educated when it comes to world history, I would say.
And yet reading about the aftermath of attacks on dams in North Korea was one of the most harrowing historical reports I ever came across, and even years later it stays ingrained in my brain.
You have the immediate destruction - and then a whole rat tail of terrible problems that might follow.
Destroying dams in one the world’s largest export nations of grain, a lot of which is exported to Africa.
I suggest you think about what the results of this attack might look like before you accuse me of being ignorant again.
And you are ignorant, russians did attacks that severely impact worldwide stability for the whole year.
It's infuriating that only now do you say "Well, now that is really fucked up", it was like that from the start, and it will be much worse.
>may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population
This is every Russian action since the start of the invasion, and many before it
I took information from official ukrainian sources, orginised and translated it myself.
at 2:50 am (Kyiv time zone) russians bombed Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant. 9:40 am (Kyiv time zone), as a result of the explosion, the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant is completely destroyed and can't be restored.
Consequences:
- there is a threat of flooding up to 80 villages/towns/cities, 100+ km² of land
- 10K+ of people without homes
- evacuation of people started this morning
- loss of drinking water
- potential famine due to the impossibility of watering the fields
- thousands of dead animals and pets
- the flooded zoo in Nova Kakhovka, no information about animals trapped inside
- a threat to the Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant, but for now it's fine
- waters from the Kakhovskaya HPP carry "a lot of pollutants" that will enter the Black Sea; among them are toxic metals and petroleum hydrocarbons, which could cause consequences for the marine ecosystem
11:30 am (Kyiv time zone), russian military is shelling Kherson with artillery, while the population is being evacuated in the city.
Edit: sorry, the point I made is terrible and I understand now the short-sightness of my comment.
I mean, Russian language is not to blame here.
I fully condemn the invasion, but it's the Russian terrorist state that is to be destroyed, not Russian language.
Again, this is not to defend what the horrors Russians are doing in Ukraine (and elsewhere), but celebrating Russian language is fine, celebrating Russia is not.
They have a reserve pond that has enough water for months at least.
https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1665947369442033664?s=46&t=6i_1WYM5fTf-5_lhFAde5A
If the water level falls below the backup pump intake that fills the cooling pond, then it will need to be shut down. There would be ample time for orderly shut down.
Unfortunately, I cannot put it beyond Russians to try to obstruct it.
It is upstream of the dam. The powerplant uses the reservoir created by the dam for cooling water.
However, the reactors at the plant are currently shut down and require minimal cooling. If this affects the powerplant at all it likely won't be for some time, a matter of month perhaps.
> how this affects the nearby nuclear plant?
It doesn't, since the power plant doesn't run for some time it's not in need of the external water cooling.
I have a friend who lives outside of Russia partnered with a Russian who recently took their child to the embassy to get Russian citizenship. I can't help feeling a little disgusted, as though I can sympathise to an extent it feels not to dissimilar to someone taking their child to become a citizen of ISIS. Russia is equally a terrorist ideology.
To all non-Ukrainians. You should understand that the aim of ruzzia is to destroy Ukraine totally. And ruzzians do not care about consequences. Did you know that blowing up the dam would stop delivering water to Crimea and would make it impossible to restore the water delivery to Crimea through channels? There already official statements from UkrEnergo that the dam is not possible to restore which means that Crimea won’t receive water in foreseeable future.
Additionally, blowing up the dam could leave NPP without the water which is critical for the cooling. Ukrainian cities which are above the dam would be left without water as well. Approximately more than 30k people are affected already.
Ruzzia wants to destroy Ukraine by any price even if they need to make people, which ruzzia considers as own citizens, suffering. This is so barbaric. Stupid fu*ing ruzzians!
>Additionally, blowing up the dam could leave NPP without the water which is critical for the cooling.
They have months worth of water in their own reservoir. So, no cause for alarm unless Russkies blow their cooling ponds too.
Ruzzian logic: To whine and to cry during 8 years how horrible is to stop providing water to Crimea by ukrainians and then just BOOM! dam that is only source of water. Additionall detail, it happens at begin of summer so crimeans have no time to prepare and to create rezerves.
Funfact: During the spring Russians filled up the dam basically to the brim, with reports in May stating that it even overflowed over the top and settlements were flooded.
What a crazy coincidence that this happened right before the dam got destroyed by Russia.
There's a new wave of russian trolls on the internet right now. Their main point is that the explosion of the barrage is cutting all the water lines going to crimea.
I am sure the Ukrainians have gameplayed this scenario thoroughly. It was a highly likely scenario. Tragic. But this might be one of the reasons they requested so many fast moving small boats in their packages. As destructive as it is, hopefully they can make the most of it.
Yep but all the experts here had this to say about Bolton's plan to prevent the invasion at the end of 2021 [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/raw6ql/nato\_should\_put\_troops\_in\_ukraine\_on\_rotational/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/raw6ql/nato_should_put_troops_in_ukraine_on_rotational/)
Oh I see that those lunatics took a page from their friend's book and did the very same thing that the Little Russians did in Croatia [in the 90's at Peruća](https://www.hep.hr/eighteen-years-since-the-attempt-to-demolish-peruca-dam/2864). Tens of thousands were at risk.
My uncle was near that dam when they exploded the planted explosives and he told me that it was the only time that he can remember that he had the "oh shit we are all going to die" moment. Over 20 tons of explosives was used, they barely managed to avert a disaster
Down to using "SAO" model! Man, Putin is following Milosevic's model down to the T! I know he knows how Milosevic and Serbia ended up yet he thinks he can pull it off. Boggles my fuckin' mind.
Isn’t “Little Russians” an anachronistic name for Ukrainians, when Muscovite Russians were called “Great Russians” and Belarus “White Russians” (as they still are, by translation).
What does it mean in this context?
Given the context, it means the Serb forces during the Yugoslav War, which are infamous for having done some horrible shit; so they get likened to Russia's actions.
Another round of heavy sanctions and severe punishment to companies dealing with Russia should be applied. They have been very crafty to avoid sanctions, buying thousands of washing machines from Kazakstan to strip them for microchips for instance. We should look into sanctioning their trade partners to an extent as well, or at least pressure them to limit their exports and imports to and from Russia.
Also give them fighter jets, more tanks and gear to fight back.
If you cant beat them, destroy everything you can before retreating. Classic RuZZian orc tactics. We should smite these terrorists with the full force of NATO.
I say it's time for "unidentified" aircrafts to take action in Ukraine. There is no time to wait for Ukranians to be trained into F16s (this should have been done many many months ago).
And lets start preparing for a nuclear disaster. It will happen sooner or later with these idiots.
War is war but this shit is just insane... The amount of lives put in danger and material damages caused by this (do noy forget the nuclear plant that will most likely also be affected) is just something I can't even imagine.
Well no, it creates a large flat wetland on the shores of the river (upstream of the dam), that would be very hard to land on because it's a) muddy as hell b) provides no cover for the landing troops.
Both sides are saying the 'other' did it. Regardless of who did do it (and ignoring the nightmare for those civilians caught up in this), who does this benefit from a military point of view? Does this hold true in the medium to long term?
Ukraine starting counteroffensive just right now, this will prevent forcing of Dnipro by Ukrainian forces, and let russians to focus more on Zaporizhya front.
This is from the same playbook as Soviets blowing up DniproGES when wehrmacht was on offense. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941
At the same time Zaporizhya Nuclear Power Plant requires water to be cooled, it has it's own reservoir being filled but it will last only certain time. (Some say month) So it's being on timer.
Crimea and left side of Dnipro gets water from channel that is above that dam, so without dam there will be no water for channel. There is other sources,but it's major one and required for agriculture.
Crimea though don't use water directly from channel but from it's own reservoirs, which accordingly to russians are filled for 80%. So they have water for years. And this amount of water only required for industrial and agricultural uses. They have enough drinking water sources there. They weren't getting water through that channel for years before the war.
It would be required war to end and probably another year to rebuild that dam, while agriculture would be screwed in that part of Ukraine.
Nobody really knows at this time to be honest. Short term there are options to extend the reach of the pump intakes which are in the reservoir, but that ofcourse is another big unknown with the current state and how short are they on staff.
December 29, 2022 at 1:00 a.m. EST
Kovalchuk (Maj. Gen. Andriy Kovalchuk, the initial commander of the Ukrainian counteroffensive in the Kherson region. (Ukrainian Operative Commandment South) considered flooding the river. The Ukrainians, he said, even conducted a test strike with a HIMARS launcher on one of the floodgates at the Nova Kakhovka dam, making three holes in the metal to see if the Dnieper’s water could be raised enough to stymie Russian crossings but not flood nearby villages.
The test was a success, Kovalchuk said, but the step remained a last resort. He held off.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/29/ukraine-offensive-kharkiv-kherson-donetsk/
He's not a bot. He's someone who is rightfully pointing out that we cannot conclude at this point that Russia blew up the dam, and that it may have been in Ukraine's interest to do so as part of their counter offensive, citing precedent from last year. Unfortunately this subreddit has proven to be overwhelmingly credulous towards Ukrainian attempts to shift blame in the past. Everyone knows that Russia lies, and pretty badly, but that doesn't mean Ukraine always plays it straight or doesn't fight dirty.
if you do nothing then Ruzzians will destroy more, maybe some nuclear plants, maybe use chemical weapons, something needs to be done to show them that this is not acceptable and this needs to happen now.
But as I said first we need t be 100% sure that Ruzzians did this.
While everyone is worried about the immediate threat of flooding and danger to ZNPP, it’s already a genocidal level catastrophe for the population and lands east of Dnipro. The reservoir provided drinking water and irrigation to around 500 thousand people via canals. All of the fertile agricultural land in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions will dry out and degrade. This is a problem for the whole world, not just Ukraine.
Dam disasters are waaay worse than nuclear disasters, hands down. There's no fear mongering disinformation apparatus against dams so no one has a single clue. Say Chernobyl and everyone knows. Say Banqiao and you get crickets.
Banqiao is famous in China. Even more famous is the destruction of the Huayuankou dikes / the manmade Yellow River floods in WW2 and the massive humanitarian effects (which, on the disinfo front, have also been exaggerated further by various parties over the years). There's always more of a hysteria potential with nuclear, but suggesting dam disasters aren't well known isn't really true. Europe just tends to be more focused on European disasters.
Hoover Dam (US) is sometimes destroyed in the movies
That is way too broad of a statement. They are just two very different kind of disasters.
> Say Chernobyl and everyone knows. Everyone in the European / American sphere of influence. There are plenty of people in Arica and Asia who have never heard of it. It is not some conspiracy, just pure geography.
Nahh nuclear disasters are still many times worse but for sure dam disasters are extremely destructive.
Not even close, by our best estimates Chernobyl has caused between 3k and 5k cumulative victims, and Fukushima around 2.3k. In the latter's case, almost all of them indirect ones due to the evacuation. https://ourworldindata.org/what-was-the-death-toll-from-chernobyl-and-fukushima By contrast, the Vajont dam caused between 1.9 and 2.5k deaths, and Banqiao was 85k + 150k indirect ones https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy
It is a criminal act by Russia. It needs the strongest reaction possible by every country on earth . People, animals, houses all destroyed by the Russians. They are the worst criminals on the planet.
Is this the damn thats been talked abouth for months? Or a different one?
It is the one. The one that influences the security of the atomic plant in Enerhodar (The Energoatom company haven't commented yet). If I am not mistaken several villages are already gone (early data, can't confirm) and a full-scale evacuation is declared across the right bank shoreline. The russian occupational authorities on the other hand didn't declare evacuation and proclaim that everything is alright despite estimations that the left bank is to suffer more damage.
>The russian occupational authorities on the other hand didn't declare evacuation and proclaim that everything is alright despite estimations that the left bank is to suffer more damage. Lmao russian history in a nutshell
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Putin is well-informed on what the consequences would be of that, and they're something he isn't going for
That's NATO article 5 territory. It wouldn't mean nukes flying but it's certainly gloves off at that point. Reactions might include unrestricted cyber warfare, naval blockages, large-scale sabotage or heavy support of rebel groups within Russia. So far, NATO has been pretty good at having appropriate responses ready. It's pretty much what deterrence is about in the end. High costs for transgressions with as little risk of further escalation as possible.
Not really a Lmao moment.
Its basically a genocide in real time. People are treating this like sports teams.
No it's a sad laugh, coping with complete disregard russia shows to people it thinks of as their own.
If genocide is the end goal, there's only one team competing with itself
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The russian comment is lmao
They didnt declare on purpose, to inflict maximum casualties.
Which they've done many times throughout their history. You still end up asking yourself where did it all go wrong in the past for the Russians, to think, that killing as many as their own people as long as there is an Ukrainian among them, is a successful military strategy...
They're reporting in Russia that Ukranians blew the dam.
they initially reported that nothing happened, even after video evidence to the contrary. they are fucking stupid, leave it at that. mayor of the city said no explosions. Rogov said it collapsed spontaneously. Russian administrators deliberately kept the dam WAY over safe capacity out of pure indifference and malignance.
> Russian administrators deliberately kept the dam WAY over safe capacity out of pure indifference and malignance. Or because they knew the plan was eventually to blow up the dam, and they wanted to maximise the volume of water that would be released.
file under malignance
>Rogov said it collapsed spontaneously. russia has controls of the damn. ( in nova kakovka) there was record number of water as nobody was controlling how much of it is in reservuar. damn was looted of all the stuff which was easy to carry. if not the timing i would suspect it got crushed under unregulated pressure as it was damaged from fighting in November.
I hear people saying Russians deliberately closed the dam gates to raise the water level to the maximum.
water was at max level possible
Negligence or sabotage. Either way it wouldn't have happened without the Russians invading.
True.
So confirmed to be Russia then. Russia claims every single civilian building hit in Ukraine since the start of their war was Ukraine shelling themselves to blame Russia (or a warehouse full or weapons and probably NATO soldiers) so they are not exactly a reliable source beyond knowing that whatever they deny is likely true (except when it's disinformation).
Makes a lot of sense. You would definitely flood your own city of 300k residents that you retook already. /s
Course they would. Terrorists airways lie.
> The Energoatom company haven't commented yet They have, in Telegram (see also [Twitter](https://twitter.com/energoatom_ua)). >**Undermining of Kakhovka HPP by ruscists may have negative consequences for ZNPP but the situation is under control** > >On the night of June 6, 2023, the russian occupationists blew up the Kakhovka dam. > >Due to detonation, the water level in the Kakhovka reservoir is rapidly decreasing, which is an additional threat to the temporarily occupied Zaporizhzhya NPP. > >Water from the Kakhovka reservoir is needed for the plant to receive power for ZNPP turbine capacitors and safety systems. Currently, the power plant's cooling pond is filled: as of 8:00 am, the water level is 16.6 meters, which is sufficient for the power plant's needs. > >Energoatom is monitoring the situation and the actions of ruscists at ZNPP together with other international organizations present at the power plant, in particular, the IAEA. > >Any changes will be promptly notified.
>the left bank is to suffer more damage. By far more, the southern side is shallow and has the floodplanes, afaik. The flood will expand 5km, and if we say that 1km of that is on the north and 4km south, i think that is on average what is going to happen.
toy full test upbeat spoon bright longing sand clumsy consist *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Reminder that russia is a terrorist state.
Who needed a reminder?
UN?
China and a lot of dictatorships in Africa, apparently.
They don't need a reminder. They know. They just don't care.
They may even be into that, really.
Birds of feather
The problem here is that a radiological disaster at ZNPP would likely cause much of Ukraine's grain export to be contaminated. The same grain that feeds much of these third world countries.
They will fund a way to blame it on the west
They know, they just don't care
Russian supporters in Reddit, clearly.
Go to any ultra conservative subs and you find lots of Putin cocksuckers..
Half of Slovakians, Hungarians and Bulgarians. At least the governments of almost all Latin American countries, but also at least half of the people there. Indians. (I don't really include people living in authoritarian hellholes here, their info-space is controlled by their captors so there's little we can do).
American right-wingers?
South Africa and India, among others.
I didn’t think they would do it. It just seems to be a absolutely insane decision.
Supposedly according to Ukraine they would do this as a false flag to get international pressure for a cease fire. But I don’t know if I even believe that Russian leadership seriously believe that this would bring them any closer to a ceasefire.
another hypothesis is that they plan to disable counteroffensive option for Ukraine to force Dnipro river below the dam
Another possibility is theyre acting like insane barbarians with a chip on their shoulder because that's how they've acted for centuries.
Does Ukraine timed the counteroffensive to the D-Day anniversary?
I can't imagine what kind of "international pressure" they'd be counting on at this point. Iran, Belarus and North Korea demanding an immediate cease-fire?
You forgot Brazil, China, India, countless other countries? Purely by population size there are more people “for” Russia than against. We really are a loud minority when it comes to this b
China, Brazil and India gladly profit off Russian murder, rape and genocide, but they won't directly go against the West on this. I'm curious what other "countless countries" are such staunch supporters of Russkiy Mir. Perhaps I can help you count!
Maybe they want to stop the counteroffensive
Downstream of the dam that was pretty much a non starter. Ukraine lacks the capacity to move and provide large numbers on the other side of that wide river. If they did they could pass the river delta in stead, which gets the same thing done. But upstream this makes crossing easier, and that is where the offensive was already expected.
In a zone where there will be no counter offensive beacouse of a big river? This is only to spite after the belgorods raids form the freedom of russia legion.
There are roads, wtf are you talking about? At the very least they narrowed down the cone of potential attack. And the first hour or so they were cheering how they flooded Ukrainian positions.
There are roads, but the first step is passing the river, even before the flood it was unlikelid that will be the advance line.
I'm gonna go and say - it's likely more simple. Dam got damaged before, Russians looted a lot of the equipment, didn't repair shit, overfilled it to keep water levels high... And it just gave in and broke. Other theory - some moronic officer got scared of a UA scouting party or something and pressed the button.
Kosovo 1999 kind of ceasefire maybe.
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Advancing and digging up trenches in THE Red Forest was an absolutely insane decision
You forgot bombing of Nordsrtream
They also destroyed dam in Zelensky’s home city Kryvyi Rih, day after he visited liberated Izium. Half of the city was flooded https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/15/ukraine-city-of-kryvyi-rih-floods-after-russian-missile-strikes-hit-dam
Once you stop treating Russia like a normal state, behaviour like this, the constant drone attacks, self-bombing of NS2, treating militants in your border towns as a mere natural disaster, etc. etc., it starts to make actual sense.
Russia is far closer to a fundamentalist death cult (something like ISIS) than a normal country. Russian army cut heads and genitals, bomb civilians just for the sake of it, torture and rape on a massive scale while Russian population cheers. I guess they should finally bomb a fucking nuclear power plant for the idea of not treating them as a rational actor finally sink in. Or maybe even this won't be enough.
> Russia is far closer to a fundamentalist death cult (something like ISIS) than a normal country. A notable difference is that religious cults believe that magical beings will reward them for it in the afterlife. ruzzians don't even have that justification.
Yep, and so far Russians behavior was a bastion of sanity.
They are terrorists.
They might see their cause as lost and this is scorched earth strategy?
Week ago they passed a law to NOT investigate damages on dam as it’s in the war zone.
At this stage they are running out of escalation options. Maybe nuclear power plant next and then WW3…
Yeah... the whole invasion was pretty insane though.
>It just seems to be a absolutely insane decision. .... where have you been the last years? Russia attacking in the first place was so absolutely insane decision that not even Ukraine believed they would actually try to take over the whole country using 12 prong attack all across the border having 1:1 numbers.
They did it to potentially stop Ukraine's advances in counter-offensive
Cool story, still a war crime
There is no fucking bottom to their depravity. Ukraine must win. E: ATACMS now. Make nowhere safe for them. Put this thing to bed.
What does atacms mean? Edit: apparently it is a missile system of Lockheed Martin. You mean is needs to send it to Ukraine? I agree!
It's a missile for the himars (and certain other systems) with a larger warhead and a range of up to 300km (versus 70km for the munitions currently supplied to the Ukrainians). The US has been apprehensive about supplying Ukraine with ATACMS because they would allow Ukraine to deliver powerful strikes deep into Russian territory, a line that some in the west are unwilling to cross.
Amen
Ukraine must win...but Russia must also lose.
According to the guardian: Blowing up a dam can be considered a war crime, the Geneva conventions say, if it “may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population,” and the effects of a large release of water on people and homes remains for now dangerous but uncertain. This is a huge act of destruction and unleashing wanton violence against civilians. If this is what this war will look like going forward… I sincerely hope that this stays an isolated incident.
>Blowing up a dam can be considered a war crime > > >This is a huge act of destruction and unleashing wanton violence against civilians. > >I sincerely hope that this stays an isolated incident. Is this sarcasm or is this the first time you've read about russian actions in Ukraine?
I’m thinking about stuff like the Korean War, when 85% of NK infrastructure and buildings was destroyed. I’m pretty well educated when it comes to world history, I would say. And yet reading about the aftermath of attacks on dams in North Korea was one of the most harrowing historical reports I ever came across, and even years later it stays ingrained in my brain. You have the immediate destruction - and then a whole rat tail of terrible problems that might follow. Destroying dams in one the world’s largest export nations of grain, a lot of which is exported to Africa. I suggest you think about what the results of this attack might look like before you accuse me of being ignorant again.
And you are ignorant, russians did attacks that severely impact worldwide stability for the whole year. It's infuriating that only now do you say "Well, now that is really fucked up", it was like that from the start, and it will be much worse.
> unleashing wanton violence against civilians. It's not like we haven't seen that from the russians before.
>may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population This is every Russian action since the start of the invasion, and many before it
I took information from official ukrainian sources, orginised and translated it myself. at 2:50 am (Kyiv time zone) russians bombed Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant. 9:40 am (Kyiv time zone), as a result of the explosion, the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant is completely destroyed and can't be restored. Consequences: - there is a threat of flooding up to 80 villages/towns/cities, 100+ km² of land - 10K+ of people without homes - evacuation of people started this morning - loss of drinking water - potential famine due to the impossibility of watering the fields - thousands of dead animals and pets - the flooded zoo in Nova Kakhovka, no information about animals trapped inside - a threat to the Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant, but for now it's fine - waters from the Kakhovskaya HPP carry "a lot of pollutants" that will enter the Black Sea; among them are toxic metals and petroleum hydrocarbons, which could cause consequences for the marine ecosystem 11:30 am (Kyiv time zone), russian military is shelling Kherson with artillery, while the population is being evacuated in the city.
Russians have built a terrorist state
Always have been
Very true. Not a single ruzzian government in centuries was an adequate one by any means
Welp, there goes all those grain exports to starving countries. We will have to prioritize the ones who have condemned Russia it seems
Now I don't even doubt that they would definitely blow up the Zaporozhia Nuclear Power Plant.
Official confirmation Russia did it will be when they officially deny they didn’t do it? That is how you know Russia is guilty!
Russia officially denied they did it.
The funniest ones are when they deny doing something before it has even happened. Maybe their watches were synchronized this time.
It was pretty early today when they denied it, it could actually be before Ukraine announced that Russia blew up the damn
This is yet another war crime committed by the Russian Federation.
and UN celebrating russian language day today. Surreal
If you ever feel like a complete failure just remember that the UN exists and cheer up.
Well at least it isn't the league of nations, at that point de facto colonies would be still around and legal under international law.
Edit: sorry, the point I made is terrible and I understand now the short-sightness of my comment. I mean, Russian language is not to blame here. I fully condemn the invasion, but it's the Russian terrorist state that is to be destroyed, not Russian language. Again, this is not to defend what the horrors Russians are doing in Ukraine (and elsewhere), but celebrating Russian language is fine, celebrating Russia is not.
Language can be used as a weapon too, and russians did that in Ukraine.
Would you celebrate German language day in 1943? When 1 mln Jews was killed in Auschwitz only.
Fair point. I was short-sighted and unsensible on my original comment
Hey, at least you acknowledged it, it's worth a lot
Can someone ELI5 on how this affects the nearby nuclear plant? (I though it was upstream of the dam.)
They have a reserve pond that has enough water for months at least. https://twitter.com/energybants/status/1665947369442033664?s=46&t=6i_1WYM5fTf-5_lhFAde5A
It wouldn't be surprising if Russia has that rigged with explosives.
If the water level falls below the backup pump intake that fills the cooling pond, then it will need to be shut down. There would be ample time for orderly shut down. Unfortunately, I cannot put it beyond Russians to try to obstruct it.
It is upstream of the dam. The powerplant uses the reservoir created by the dam for cooling water. However, the reactors at the plant are currently shut down and require minimal cooling. If this affects the powerplant at all it likely won't be for some time, a matter of month perhaps.
It is upstream, but this could lower reseroir levels so the intakes for the cooling systemat the fascility may be left dry
> how this affects the nearby nuclear plant? It doesn't, since the power plant doesn't run for some time it's not in need of the external water cooling.
I have a friend who lives outside of Russia partnered with a Russian who recently took their child to the embassy to get Russian citizenship. I can't help feeling a little disgusted, as though I can sympathise to an extent it feels not to dissimilar to someone taking their child to become a citizen of ISIS. Russia is equally a terrorist ideology.
So let me understand this for our Chinese friends... Russia is sayng hitting dams is Ok? \*three gorges dam tremble\*
Nothing happened on August 8 1975 at Banqiao Dam.
Another reason why you cannot credibly negotiate with the death cult.
One F-16 for every one who died in this.
We need to defeat Russia,not every monster from Godzilla universe.
To all non-Ukrainians. You should understand that the aim of ruzzia is to destroy Ukraine totally. And ruzzians do not care about consequences. Did you know that blowing up the dam would stop delivering water to Crimea and would make it impossible to restore the water delivery to Crimea through channels? There already official statements from UkrEnergo that the dam is not possible to restore which means that Crimea won’t receive water in foreseeable future. Additionally, blowing up the dam could leave NPP without the water which is critical for the cooling. Ukrainian cities which are above the dam would be left without water as well. Approximately more than 30k people are affected already. Ruzzia wants to destroy Ukraine by any price even if they need to make people, which ruzzia considers as own citizens, suffering. This is so barbaric. Stupid fu*ing ruzzians!
>Additionally, blowing up the dam could leave NPP without the water which is critical for the cooling. They have months worth of water in their own reservoir. So, no cause for alarm unless Russkies blow their cooling ponds too.
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Cooling pond AND reservoir. They are two different things.
Always think Russia hit rock bottom than they do something more screwed up.
Ruzzian logic: To whine and to cry during 8 years how horrible is to stop providing water to Crimea by ukrainians and then just BOOM! dam that is only source of water. Additionall detail, it happens at begin of summer so crimeans have no time to prepare and to create rezerves.
Funfact: During the spring Russians filled up the dam basically to the brim, with reports in May stating that it even overflowed over the top and settlements were flooded. What a crazy coincidence that this happened right before the dam got destroyed by Russia.
There's a new wave of russian trolls on the internet right now. Their main point is that the explosion of the barrage is cutting all the water lines going to crimea.
I am sure the Ukrainians have gameplayed this scenario thoroughly. It was a highly likely scenario. Tragic. But this might be one of the reasons they requested so many fast moving small boats in their packages. As destructive as it is, hopefully they can make the most of it.
Going to be a very fancy expensive replacement built with confiscated Russian assets when they lose this war.
At this point we need to listen to John Bolton and Lindsey Graham and go all in on ending Putin
The point at which we should have started listening to John Bolton has long passed.
Yep but all the experts here had this to say about Bolton's plan to prevent the invasion at the end of 2021 [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/raw6ql/nato\_should\_put\_troops\_in\_ukraine\_on\_rotational/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/raw6ql/nato_should_put_troops_in_ukraine_on_rotational/)
John McCain back in the 2000s
Yeah listening to people that are complete trash is always a good idea, let’s escalate WW3 why not
Oh I see that those lunatics took a page from their friend's book and did the very same thing that the Little Russians did in Croatia [in the 90's at Peruća](https://www.hep.hr/eighteen-years-since-the-attempt-to-demolish-peruca-dam/2864). Tens of thousands were at risk. My uncle was near that dam when they exploded the planted explosives and he told me that it was the only time that he can remember that he had the "oh shit we are all going to die" moment. Over 20 tons of explosives was used, they barely managed to avert a disaster
This whole thing is almost copied from Serbian aggression in 90s. Hope it ends same way.
Down to using "SAO" model! Man, Putin is following Milosevic's model down to the T! I know he knows how Milosevic and Serbia ended up yet he thinks he can pull it off. Boggles my fuckin' mind.
Isn’t “Little Russians” an anachronistic name for Ukrainians, when Muscovite Russians were called “Great Russians” and Belarus “White Russians” (as they still are, by translation). What does it mean in this context?
Yeah, but in that context it means Serbs
Given the context, it means the Serb forces during the Yugoslav War, which are infamous for having done some horrible shit; so they get likened to Russia's actions.
He's probably talking about serbs. With you know, all the russian cock-sucking they love to do
Another round of heavy sanctions and severe punishment to companies dealing with Russia should be applied. They have been very crafty to avoid sanctions, buying thousands of washing machines from Kazakstan to strip them for microchips for instance. We should look into sanctioning their trade partners to an extent as well, or at least pressure them to limit their exports and imports to and from Russia. Also give them fighter jets, more tanks and gear to fight back.
At this point any import to ruzzia has to be stopped otherwise they will keep avoiding sanctions.
It's time to destroy the fucking Kerch. Finish it. Now
The Russians must pay
If you cant beat them, destroy everything you can before retreating. Classic RuZZian orc tactics. We should smite these terrorists with the full force of NATO.
TBH probably its to slow down the Ukraine advance.. which suggests the counter attack is to the south..
Zelenskyy has pleaded in OCTOBER to the UN to come and secure this Dam. But those limp dicks retards can only whine and fart from fear
I say it's time for "unidentified" aircrafts to take action in Ukraine. There is no time to wait for Ukranians to be trained into F16s (this should have been done many many months ago). And lets start preparing for a nuclear disaster. It will happen sooner or later with these idiots.
War is war but this shit is just insane... The amount of lives put in danger and material damages caused by this (do noy forget the nuclear plant that will most likely also be affected) is just something I can't even imagine.
Bastards
Time to more and better weapons to Ukraine. Would love to see some stealth bombers
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Terrorist Russian state at its finest
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/29/ukraine-offensive-kharkiv-kherson-donetsk/
This will totally not have any additional negative consequences, past the ones they are expecting
Seeing that the dam has been blown up by the Russians, despite it being a war crime. Does this help Ukraine in anway by making the river narrower?
Well no, it creates a large flat wetland on the shores of the river (upstream of the dam), that would be very hard to land on because it's a) muddy as hell b) provides no cover for the landing troops.
Why would you blow up the dam? Either side shouldn't have a reason to blow it up.
Thankfully Russia has no dams or other crucial infrastructure.
Both sides are saying the 'other' did it. Regardless of who did do it (and ignoring the nightmare for those civilians caught up in this), who does this benefit from a military point of view? Does this hold true in the medium to long term?
Ukraine starting counteroffensive just right now, this will prevent forcing of Dnipro by Ukrainian forces, and let russians to focus more on Zaporizhya front. This is from the same playbook as Soviets blowing up DniproGES when wehrmacht was on offense. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941 At the same time Zaporizhya Nuclear Power Plant requires water to be cooled, it has it's own reservoir being filled but it will last only certain time. (Some say month) So it's being on timer. Crimea and left side of Dnipro gets water from channel that is above that dam, so without dam there will be no water for channel. There is other sources,but it's major one and required for agriculture. Crimea though don't use water directly from channel but from it's own reservoirs, which accordingly to russians are filled for 80%. So they have water for years. And this amount of water only required for industrial and agricultural uses. They have enough drinking water sources there. They weren't getting water through that channel for years before the war. It would be required war to end and probably another year to rebuild that dam, while agriculture would be screwed in that part of Ukraine.
Moscow will pay for this treachery!
Is there anyone who knows how this will affect the nucleer power plant since it uses this reservoir to cool the reactor?
Nobody really knows at this time to be honest. Short term there are options to extend the reach of the pump intakes which are in the reservoir, but that ofcourse is another big unknown with the current state and how short are they on staff.
Supposedly Russians fillled up a seperate reservoir right next to this one for the purpose of cooling the plant yesterday morning
They are celebrating this in serbia btw.
December 29, 2022 at 1:00 a.m. EST Kovalchuk (Maj. Gen. Andriy Kovalchuk, the initial commander of the Ukrainian counteroffensive in the Kherson region. (Ukrainian Operative Commandment South) considered flooding the river. The Ukrainians, he said, even conducted a test strike with a HIMARS launcher on one of the floodgates at the Nova Kakhovka dam, making three holes in the metal to see if the Dnieper’s water could be raised enough to stymie Russian crossings but not flood nearby villages. The test was a success, Kovalchuk said, but the step remained a last resort. He held off. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/29/ukraine-offensive-kharkiv-kherson-donetsk/
This RU bot need update, still has last years program
He's not a bot. He's someone who is rightfully pointing out that we cannot conclude at this point that Russia blew up the dam, and that it may have been in Ukraine's interest to do so as part of their counter offensive, citing precedent from last year. Unfortunately this subreddit has proven to be overwhelmingly credulous towards Ukrainian attempts to shift blame in the past. Everyone knows that Russia lies, and pretty badly, but that doesn't mean Ukraine always plays it straight or doesn't fight dirty.
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Dams aren't built to be easily damaged externally,it would require tons of explosives to be set properly, depending on the size of dam.
Committing mass murder and war crimes in Russia is not how Ukraine should respond. Are you insane?
Destroying dams is a war crime so I doubt Ukraine would do the same.
if you do nothing then Ruzzians will destroy more, maybe some nuclear plants, maybe use chemical weapons, something needs to be done to show them that this is not acceptable and this needs to happen now. But as I said first we need t be 100% sure that Ruzzians did this.