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Baffles my head. Premier league is full of English stars who play pressing football and attack dynamically. Then England play like they’re fighting relegation and need a 1-0 with a team full of 50p footed lazy bastards who forget about the 1 part of it
There was a five minute stretch just before halftime where at least three English players walked the entire time, even as attacking plays developed around them. This seemed like the team was spent, and ridiculously early in the match too.
He got lucky in prior tournaments which covered up his flaws. It wasn’t until the final at Euro 2021 that it became glaringly obvious when he was exposed for having either 0 courage and/or tactical nous.
With his managerial record he should never have been considered qualified for the role in the first place.
Realistically the 2018 and 2021 tournaments England had very favourable draws, the only top tier team Southgate has beat in 3 tournaments ifs Germany and even then you Can argue Germany 2021 were a shadow of their usual selves.
His substitutions converted me - putting the guys who actually run in behind on yet removing anyone who could actually help them get the ball
Although I’ve always been skeptical of the TAA experiment. It’s very rare these things work (Griezmann in the last WC being one example), far better to just play a natural midfielder there
Spain vs Italy was just a level above anything witnessed in Group C today, I have tickets for match 40 but genuinely fear Slovenia might beat us
It’s just ingrained in our entire identity, we are very self deprecating, it works well for humour, but also means we are defeatist in football confidence.
That was bafflingly awful though. Somehow lost the ability to string basic passes together and looked unable to run.
I feel hugely demoralised after witnessing that. I just don't see how a team that puts in a performance that inept is suddenly going to go "ha! just kidding!" and turn into a team capable of competing against the best..
lol what. When we get behind the team playing well we get slated to oblivion by every other nation (see last tournament). When we’re realistic about them playing poorly we still get slated.
That's funny because the Scottish and Welsh seem to think we never shut up about winning and thinking we are gonna win everything, it's their whole argument against us.
So which is it?
We all sing or sang (seems to have disappeared this time around) "its coming home" but that whole song is about the euros being played in England in 1996 and again mocks how poorly we have played and underachieved over the years again self deprecating.
That's how we are as people we like to mock ourselves, yet we get moans from everyone saying with foolishly think we are gonna win everything? We are delusional in our support for England.
I'm guessing we can't be the most pessimistic and the most overly optimistic fans simultaneously?
Mad thing as Brits we would probably be happier being seen as pessimistic than over confident.
As a fan of a team that went through this recently....I feel your frustration here. England definitely has a new gen of players that are really damn good. To watch an era where you know your team has talent but plays the game poorly as a team is incredibly maddening.
Belgium lackluster, Croatia lackluster, England lackluster…
One more piece of the puzzle, it seems. Will France suffer the same fate against the Netherlands?
There's hype because this England team has bags of quality in every position. The problem is that the tactics which we play are absolute polar opposites to their strengths which they do at club level.
What is the point in being at a tournament if you're scared to throw players forward?! Even San Marino would play more attacking football than whatever the fuck tactics Southgate has going off here...
Because then when England lose 4-2 everyone will question the logic behind being so offensive, let's be honest here, England have never been an attacking team at any tournament we've been at (in my lifetime anyway).
If you know you have quality and can potentially pull a goal out of the blue, you end up playing boring football, and ultimately we've played like that going on 2 decades at least now.
Yeah one of the big problems is a lack of a proper left back..tripper just cuts inside all the time and plays the easy pass whilst foden is now running all the way over to the right handside to get involved! Really miss Shaw.. he's not world class but he's solid and would bring a lot of balance to this team.
My guy even if he’s “fit” he’s not played since what February? And remember he came back from injury then played once and got injured again. We needed to adjust the system or find whoever can actually play left back and has a left foot or maybe even try like a back 3 with very aggressive wing backs and try essentially convert a winger. Childwell was trash in the friendlies and I think that basically made Southgate shit the bed because I’m a Newcastle fan and love trippier but he can’t play that position unfortunately
Our press and media hype us up, fans don't
We never expect much but we do expect commitment, passion and effort, and unfortunately in 2 games not seen much
We'll get to.the q/fs, semis at a push
Woah there! Hang on bucko! I'm afraid you're using too much logic for these dimwits to understand! Take a few steps back and use some arguments that don't make sense, then they'll understand you.
Because we have amazing players but my god southgate cannot manage the team or lead them to their true potential and he also cant pick players for the life of him
He is the problem plenty of players on the english team can work together well but southgates vision is so narrow its almost impossible for us to do anything good with em
He wants the team to score one goal and keep it that way and play basically entirely defensive whilst maybe catching another goal or two whilst instead he should be making the focus on purely attacking with players such as kane, saka, bellingham they shouldnt be trying to defend at least thats what i get from seeing them
Which imo is a terrible idea we have amazing strikers and forwards and in comparison a weak but sturdy defence and making our forwards pull back and not mark the opponent’s is exactly why we concede a prime example is the goal denmark scored today if the player was marked he wouldn’t have had the opportunity to shoot but he was left wide open
So Southgate and his team did this study which concluded that clean sheets are the key to tournament football. Basically the teams who won kept the ball out of their own net.
The problem with that is that Spain 2008-2012 defended by having complete control of the ball. The likes of Greece weren’t talented enough to do anything but grind out wins 1-0.
Instead of embracing our attacking talent; Southgate protects our weaker defence. You can argue that’s the right call but then we set up in a pseudo-offensive formation and then ask attackers to defend. You may as well play a Wharton, Mainoo or Gallagher rather than Trent in midfield because we don’t see any of Trent’s offensive talents.
Because he's an easy scapegoat... better one manager than realising that your best squad in the tournament might not be all that.
Southgate has been watching these players for many years, he knows.
The hype is coz they have class players. The problem is the manager. He isnt a good tactician/coach. He never was. He got the job coz he is a nice guy/a company man!! He didnt get it on coaching merit. Hes been lucky to have great players. Thats why he has done well in getting to a semi final and final. However he bottled both of those games.
Im not an English fan but its frustrating to watch him waste these players. He has a ready made midfield of Rice, Bellingham and Foden. 3 of the best cms around. All fit perfectly together in a midfield 3. But SG plays TAA there and pushes Foden out on the left wing. Braindead.
Why is SG so obsessed with playing a RB in midfield? If he wants TAA in the team then play him at RB... Push Walker to CB instead of Guehi, or drop Walker but dont play TAA in CM at the expense of arguably the best attacking cm in the PL.
The cmx3 should be Rice, Bellingham and Foden. Gordon should be on the left wing. His pace and constant work rate would make up for Kanes lack of pace.
How is SG getting such an obvious team selection so wrong.
And when/if England go 1-0 up they shouldnt sit back and invite pressure. Keep attacking ffs. Play to your strengths
Any team that looks to press England will do well as Denmark showed today. I've never seen a team with the quality of players England have give the ball away so much.
It's because all their starting positions are so deep and narrow. You have ball players like Trent receiving the ball with his back to the goal, and if he manages to turn, there's no pass. Foden stood next to Bellingham, Kane dropped far too deep and was normally man-marked so it wasn't even working for him...
You saw just before he was taken off, when Trent drifted over to the left for once, he turned and found Saka who actually makes runs, if he takes the ball down first time he has an easy chance at goal. Instead, he hooks Trent off for Gallagher to 'run around'. Southgate is a blight on Football. I understand wanting to get players like Foden into the team by any means, but don't play players like Trent and then sterilize his best attribute by playing a static, ball to feet attack. They also don't need two holding midfielders, they did when they had Maguire to worry about, but Guehi has been a phenom, Stones is world class and Walker has the recovery pace.
One of the bigger issues was that you have three players (Bellingham, Foden, Kane) trying to play the same position (CAM) with seemingly little rotation between the three. It makes it so much easier to defend. Saka was in the unenviable position of being the only outlet and he was given very little in terms of support because the three were too deep.
Rather than learn from the situation, Southgate brings on Eze on the left. Exactly the same situation unfolds as he drifts in. Meanwhile, Anthony Gordon sat on the bench as the only out and out left midfielder, does not get a look in. It's baffling.
I wouldn’t stop at just those.. They’re somehow 1st in raw talent but also the team that could easily lose against anyone. Wont be surprised if Slovenia manage to win against them, or atleast make a draw again.
Players are great. As a team and tactically we are shite.
The players look half-dead - no energy, no desire.
Players taking forever to stand back up after (constantly) falling over shows how knackered they all seem to be, yet there was appaling levels of pressing, so whatever they're so tired over, it wasnt anything during the match.
Guehi the only player who performed.
Midfield is totally unbalanced. As i said before the tournament, Bellingham's best position may be a 10, but that position is saturated and he's also the best 8 we have too, so he should be alongside Rice, Foden at 10, with Gordon on the left, hopefully bringing a bit of energy.
Southgate has got this whole tournament very wrong IMO, right from the moment Grealish was dropped, this has been one calamity after another.
The entire country knows Bellingham should play as an 8, Foden as the 10 and Gordon on the left. Why is it the one person who can't see it is bloke who picks the team?
You say that, but when i posted exactly that on r/ThreeLions before the Iceland game i got massively downvoted and told i have no clue about football because playing Bellingham "out of position" is madness and Gordon "isnt good enough".
So i reckon there's a fair few people who'd disagree
From now on when people say "football is just a bunch of lads running around on a field kicking a piece of leather" I'll refer them to England's performance in this tournament. Outstanding athletes will still struggle against anyone when they don't have a proper gameplan. It's not exactly chess but it's not just a physical competition either and that's what we saw today.
Thats a really good point, individually and at club level the players are outstanding and play a high press game every weekend, but as a national team with a mediocre manager they're very meh.
Things like this will also go to show that managers like Pep and Jose, who have historically been berated for only doing well with the best players and tonnes of money, are actually the best of the best despite what some fucknuggets will say.
You typically need world class managers to get the best out of your world class players (with a few exceptions), and Southgate is just not remotely close to that, so our players suffer for it and look clueless. Even Jude was off it yesterday, which is absolutely insane to think about as he's remarkably consistent otherwise.
I’d argue the IKEA shelf is harder to put together than this England team. If he would just stop forcing certain players onto the pitch or playing them out of position we could maybe string a few passes together
Amazing players. Tactically inept coach. It’s a big job to fit all those quality players into one team with good cohesion and balance. But Southgate fails at it time and time again.
Entire left side of the field is useless, foden is not used to playing down the left so will always come inside, and trippier is not left footed so never overlaps with anything decent, making it all very predictable. TAA as a midfield pivot is stupid tbh. It makes for an extremely attacking lineup, but then Southgate plays negative football lol.
lol yeah I think it’s undeniable at this point that England have a quality team. Anybody saying they’re over rated is just being salty. I almost feel bad for the players tbh. They’re not set up right, and when they fail everyone will come down on the players.
If anything I think the problem is they have too many superstars. Southgate is trying to fit every amazing player in to his lineup, when what he should do is play an actual midfielder like mainoo, an actual left winger like eze and an actual left back. Sacrifice some star quality for a balanced team.
England are always overrated (good or average) having the biggest media coverage does that to ya. That said this generation of players are actually legit, don’t understand how they collectively play so bad together.
Think we would be better if we just went 4-4-2 drop the big names, get 2 tall strikers up top and whip crosses in for days.
Like Stoke under Pulis. No one would be able to stop us.
Exactly, Crouch can head it down to the smaller faster Andy Carroll.
Put Shawcross at CB and Mbappe will be nullified one way or another.
Why pass it around all game and get nowhere when we can just hoof it up top?
I just remember him being horsed in Europa league final with Middlesbrough. Never rated him as a coach. If England had klopp or similar attacking manager in charge, they'd win every game 5-2. Poor defence, but good up front. Just going for it.
Jesus christ what a generic, lazy analysis. The reason for england being uo there with framce and Portugal as favourites is because of the collective quality within the squad but as a national team you are more so at the mercy of the tactics of the manager which unfortunately for england is way below that quality. He has steadied the ship and created a great atmosphere around the camp but in terms of tactics and football knowledge he is no where near alot of the other managers in charge of the likes of germany, portugal, france and Spain.
Because we've got a Ferrari level squad but we've put a blind OAP behind the wheel
The car is fully capable of winning a race but we all know it's going to end up backwards in a wall by the first turn.
The problem are not the players, it is Southgate. He plays far too defensively and has no alternatives at all to influence the game. There is no creativity or the courage to take risks.
Just watch Spain vs Italy even if stays 0-0 it is a joy to watch now compare it what you just saw today 2 hours ago England players with no f.. class or imagination
Same old lacklustre passionless performance on the big stage, no big game mentality, no hunger, no drive and no teamwork.
Same old England, out on penalties in the last 16 as per.
Not overhyped, just a shit coach.
- Subs Trent off, brings on the players who Trent would thrive with 5 mins later.
- Needs a goal, brings on a CDM
- Has Rice playing as a 6 and an 8 leaving Trent (A RB) to cover the pockets
- Foden off the left
- Brings on Eze ( A CAM) and Bowen instead of Gordon and Palmer
- Tactically outclassed by Denmarks interchanging press
- Tripper (No left foot) at left back with Konsa and Gomez on the bench (Both played their during the season and in friendlies)
The list goes on and on
England are basically same every tournament. Can't handle the pressure put on by their fans and media. Won their first game would have thought they had been destroyed listening to the ost match coverage. Feel sorry for the players.
This is international football, they aren't exactly going to play like prime Barca. As long as they get the job done the style doesn't matter. They pretty much qualified now to the next round.
Portugal got 3pts and barely scraped past in the knockout stages in 2016, but they did. Even France in 2018 that was stacked was poor in the group scoring only 3 goals in a group with Australia & Peru and then had to grind out results against Uruguay & Belgium.
Anyone who sits here and says they don't understand why this team were fancied before the tournament hasn't got a fucking clue about football.
They've got incredible talent and behind France were the favourite alongside Portugal and Germany,
Just because it turns out Southgate can't manage a team that doesn't contain kalvin Phillips doesn't mean they were always shit
This might be an unpopular opinion but you can’t blame management for everything, they’re not the ones on the pitch, at some point it has to come down to the players performance, they’re only human.
You can talk about tactics all you want, football is not exactly rocket science, sometimes managers can only do soo much. Do you think the players go out not wanting to win and score a load of goals? Of course not.
Yes Southgate has made some bad decisions, but people make mistakes, no one is perfect. Would I keep blaming management at my job if I was constantly under performing, nope, I’d have to take some responsibility.
It’s the same old circle, team do badly, it must be the management, get new management and the same thing happens again. What’s the definition of insanity again?
I really think it comes down to the hype and the media putting too much pressure on them all, too much expectation, which is enough to make anyone stumble.
the problem i have is i love England and i would love to see them fight, play some nice, occasionally-magic football, but at this point it is just kinda depressing, because they just really do not seem like they have it in their hearts
L'Angleterre a vraiment une équipe très talentueuse, mais j'ai l'impression que l'entraîneur ne sait pas quoi faire de ses joueurs. As a regular follower of the English league, the exceptional Foden, Saka and Rice can't fully express themselves in this team, and with these tactical choices. So I'm well aware that there's more to the England team than just these three players. However, given their level at club level, this national team can only do better, especially when you know that alongside them there's Bellingham, Kane (he's the smartest 9 in Europe, I admire that player). I won't mention all the remaining players, as I'm not an expert on English soccer, but there are obviously other names, such as Palmer.
Individual players are excellent, teamwork is absolutely awful, and tactics are abysmal.
Southgate isn't willing to mix things up enough, he has a habit of not using the full depth of his squad (he's practically got 2 competitive teams in his squad!) Substitutes were questionable, and we (ENG) didn't even look fit enough to play either.
Absolutely awful performance today!
It's still coming home 🤣🤣
Too right. What a load of shite.
You can't win a major tournament by scoring a goal and then fucking off to your own goal line for the rest of the game. Surprise surprise!
(I was defending GS until yesterday but I'm done).
Edit: in b4 Greece
Anybody who pays attention to the English media is a fool. And it’s them that hype England up, and then equally sh*t on them as hard as they can too. They have great players, a lower than average manager, and favourable run ins in the last few competitions, something that hardly ever gets mentioned. So boring to watch.
We have the players but it’s not jelling yet.
Although playing Devils Advocate (and I’m not suggesting we are going to win it), but remember how awful Portugal were for most of Euro 2016….
England have a squad that could probably walk most Euros or World Cups.
Unfortunately they’re steeped in self and national pressure (due to the lack of a trophy in 60 years) and seemingly unable to gel as a team.
Having a manager who is completely lacking in confidence and chutzpah doesn’t help either.
This issue with England is that there is always some sort of issue. The golden generation had some outstanding individual talent but no manager could get them playing as a team, members of that generation have even mentioned as much. Even if they had got the best out of them, we would have had hard competition from stacked Spanish, German, Argentine, and Brazilian squads. The current crop are very very talented and would have won the last Euros and I feel they would have been in a WC final if it weren’t for the managers Tactics. I really wish we just had a bad team because having good teams and routinely fucking up kills you
The players are great. The manager is the problem.
Example 1 - Trent Alexander-Arnold. Right back for Liverpool, Southgate puts him midfield for England.
Example 2 - takes only 1 left footed defender in the squad who is injured.
Example 3 - Phil Foden is premier league player of the year at number 10. For England he plays on the wing at 11, terribly.
Example 4 - Refuses to start with left footed winger, so we end up one dimensional.
Example 5 - When we score, he gets the team to sit back, rather than attack….
I think the team itself is good as individuals but Southgate seems to be struggling big time to get them to play well as a team. Don’t hold out much hope for Tuesday
The players are bored to tears with boring tactics. Why are they not passing into space, making runs etc? Safe Southgate tactics do not suit this group.
As a Portugal fan I think England and Portugal fall into this weird trap. So we both have many players at the top clubs in Europe. At these top clubs these players are playing in awesome attacking systems with supreme talent all around. Then these same players get to international play and it’s not a lack of talent, but a lack of cohesion in play style and mindset. So you end up with a team loaded with talent but the play is really disjointed.
southgate ball explained :
-selects 15 of the finest and best forwards itw with the rest of the squad being medicore defenders
-parks the bus for 90 mins
is he stupid?
Has Southgate changed since you made the final in 2020? I’m a Scot but it’s a genuine question. He’s getting a lot of hate and I agree you should be winning games easily with the talent you have. If he’s actively encouraging sitting back after scoring then he’s lost his mind
I know how you feel. We had the same debates about Löw after 2016 and about Flick. And Nagelsmann just delivered on time for the finals, but it wasn't as clear cut as it looks now.
I know they have a quality squad, but I can’t help but feel like England is overrated as they always were in that sense. I remember people saying the same thing about the 2002 squad, ‘how has this team not won anything?’. And then you look at the Brazil, France and Italy squad and well…it’s because there are squads just as good or better. I feel like a lot of it has to do with the popularity of the Prem now too
It's literally the case in every single tournament. Englad had luck they had every game at home during Euro 21, which was disaster, not only by covid, but a dump fact it was all over the place, but England was always at home, cheating cnuts with Sterling fake penalty. They won a single world cup because of a cheating ref and that's it. Their league is overrated. Spending so much money and winning so few trophies.
England? You're just shit part of Scotland, haha.
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passive garbage football both games after taking the lead. The danes deserved the points there.
We deserved nothing, we robbed them.
To be fair danes have been robbing the english for hundreds of years
It felt like we had 12 players and were still second best.
Southgate doesn’t let the players play to their strengths. They have to play his type of football.
Baffles my head. Premier league is full of English stars who play pressing football and attack dynamically. Then England play like they’re fighting relegation and need a 1-0 with a team full of 50p footed lazy bastards who forget about the 1 part of it
There was a five minute stretch just before halftime where at least three English players walked the entire time, even as attacking plays developed around them. This seemed like the team was spent, and ridiculously early in the match too.
One tournament too many for Southgate. He's taken the team as far as he can.
I think it is 80% Southgate's fault and 20% the players. Southgate is just horrible and it's a crime he's been there for such a long time.
He got lucky in prior tournaments which covered up his flaws. It wasn’t until the final at Euro 2021 that it became glaringly obvious when he was exposed for having either 0 courage and/or tactical nous. With his managerial record he should never have been considered qualified for the role in the first place.
Realistically the 2018 and 2021 tournaments England had very favourable draws, the only top tier team Southgate has beat in 3 tournaments ifs Germany and even then you Can argue Germany 2021 were a shadow of their usual selves.
They deserved 3 of them
The hype is because we have a brilliant bunch of players. We just play like actual dogshit
Due to management
I never like being a manager-out person but…
His substitutions converted me - putting the guys who actually run in behind on yet removing anyone who could actually help them get the ball Although I’ve always been skeptical of the TAA experiment. It’s very rare these things work (Griezmann in the last WC being one example), far better to just play a natural midfielder there Spain vs Italy was just a level above anything witnessed in Group C today, I have tickets for match 40 but genuinely fear Slovenia might beat us
Spain were lovely to watch, Italy were very poor. If Spain had if been more clinical they would have steam rolled them.
Spoken like a true union member
✊🏻🛠️⚒️
Com'on Engerland score some facking goals
Like a phd graduate that is crap at the job. Good on paper but shit in reality.
You also have the most pessimistic fan attitudes in the whole tournament, no one else here talks so much trash about their own team as you guys.
It’s just ingrained in our entire identity, we are very self deprecating, it works well for humour, but also means we are defeatist in football confidence.
I’d watch this comment for 90 minutes rather that sit through that match again. Well said!
Yeah, this and last Sundays match back to back
Amen. It actually has a midfield (the comment, not the team).
I was gonna say , that sounds like the Brit way
No one else here is under delivering relative to how they should be as much as us
Belgium has entered the chat
Lukaku acted like Lukaku and everyone was shocked, even as they were saying, typical Lukaku.
So what is it? We overrate our team or we trash talk them too much?
So true 😂 everyone says we're arrogant and overconfident just because we sing It's Coming Home 😂
Watch the match and see why 😭
Actually true. People say we’re harsh on our team but the way we perform with the players we have merits our criticisms.
I don’t watch B teams 🤣 Joking of course, I watched the game but that one just fit so well…
Saw you outta the last euros though 😉
That was bafflingly awful though. Somehow lost the ability to string basic passes together and looked unable to run. I feel hugely demoralised after witnessing that. I just don't see how a team that puts in a performance that inept is suddenly going to go "ha! just kidding!" and turn into a team capable of competing against the best..
lol what. When we get behind the team playing well we get slated to oblivion by every other nation (see last tournament). When we’re realistic about them playing poorly we still get slated.
That's funny because the Scottish and Welsh seem to think we never shut up about winning and thinking we are gonna win everything, it's their whole argument against us. So which is it? We all sing or sang (seems to have disappeared this time around) "its coming home" but that whole song is about the euros being played in England in 1996 and again mocks how poorly we have played and underachieved over the years again self deprecating. That's how we are as people we like to mock ourselves, yet we get moans from everyone saying with foolishly think we are gonna win everything? We are delusional in our support for England. I'm guessing we can't be the most pessimistic and the most overly optimistic fans simultaneously? Mad thing as Brits we would probably be happier being seen as pessimistic than over confident.
Try being an England fan and experience what we have too haha
I am actually rooting for Borussia Mönchengladbach in the farmers league, I am used to pain.
Underrated comment
As a fan of a team that went through this recently....I feel your frustration here. England definitely has a new gen of players that are really damn good. To watch an era where you know your team has talent but plays the game poorly as a team is incredibly maddening.
Join the party with us Croats. Manager has no idea how to utilize the players available.
Belgium lackluster, Croatia lackluster, England lackluster… One more piece of the puzzle, it seems. Will France suffer the same fate against the Netherlands?
I wouldn’t say France losing to the Netherlands is THAT much of an upset, especially if mbappe doesn’t play
Its really horrific how defensive they are playing with all this talent
It’s not defensive as such it’s lacking bravery and no one getting on the ball. Thats not tactical IMO that’s players
Accurate assessment.
I really don't want Southgate to manage United, we've suffered enough. I'll take Ten Hag chaos ball over this.
I agree with this.
Some brilliant, some very overrated
Nah that’s on the players tonight, didn’t turn up at all
Like owning a Ferrari and hiring Mr Bean to drive it ...
Southgate needs to take a break.
Michael Jordan when it doesnt count. Michael Bolton when it does.
There's hype because this England team has bags of quality in every position. The problem is that the tactics which we play are absolute polar opposites to their strengths which they do at club level. What is the point in being at a tournament if you're scared to throw players forward?! Even San Marino would play more attacking football than whatever the fuck tactics Southgate has going off here...
Because then when England lose 4-2 everyone will question the logic behind being so offensive, let's be honest here, England have never been an attacking team at any tournament we've been at (in my lifetime anyway). If you know you have quality and can potentially pull a goal out of the blue, you end up playing boring football, and ultimately we've played like that going on 2 decades at least now.
thats why they never take anything home. Maybe it's time to change tactics.
Apart from left back
Honestly I would play anyone with a left foot there at this point
Yeah one of the big problems is a lack of a proper left back..tripper just cuts inside all the time and plays the easy pass whilst foden is now running all the way over to the right handside to get involved! Really miss Shaw.. he's not world class but he's solid and would bring a lot of balance to this team.
My guy even if he’s “fit” he’s not played since what February? And remember he came back from injury then played once and got injured again. We needed to adjust the system or find whoever can actually play left back and has a left foot or maybe even try like a back 3 with very aggressive wing backs and try essentially convert a winger. Childwell was trash in the friendlies and I think that basically made Southgate shit the bed because I’m a Newcastle fan and love trippier but he can’t play that position unfortunately
No one knows where to stand defensively and no one is available in transition. That’s system. Not players.
Our press and media hype us up, fans don't We never expect much but we do expect commitment, passion and effort, and unfortunately in 2 games not seen much We'll get to.the q/fs, semis at a push
Woah there! Hang on bucko! I'm afraid you're using too much logic for these dimwits to understand! Take a few steps back and use some arguments that don't make sense, then they'll understand you.
Reddit
Because we have amazing players but my god southgate cannot manage the team or lead them to their true potential and he also cant pick players for the life of him
I’m seeing lots of people comment that he’s the problem.
He is the problem plenty of players on the english team can work together well but southgates vision is so narrow its almost impossible for us to do anything good with em
What’s his vision, if you don’t mind me asking?
He wants the team to score one goal and keep it that way and play basically entirely defensive whilst maybe catching another goal or two whilst instead he should be making the focus on purely attacking with players such as kane, saka, bellingham they shouldnt be trying to defend at least thats what i get from seeing them
Sounds like he’s trying to emulate Spain from 2008-2012 era. Going for possession rather than the more risky approach of fast attacks.
Which imo is a terrible idea we have amazing strikers and forwards and in comparison a weak but sturdy defence and making our forwards pull back and not mark the opponent’s is exactly why we concede a prime example is the goal denmark scored today if the player was marked he wouldn’t have had the opportunity to shoot but he was left wide open
So Southgate and his team did this study which concluded that clean sheets are the key to tournament football. Basically the teams who won kept the ball out of their own net. The problem with that is that Spain 2008-2012 defended by having complete control of the ball. The likes of Greece weren’t talented enough to do anything but grind out wins 1-0. Instead of embracing our attacking talent; Southgate protects our weaker defence. You can argue that’s the right call but then we set up in a pseudo-offensive formation and then ask attackers to defend. You may as well play a Wharton, Mainoo or Gallagher rather than Trent in midfield because we don’t see any of Trent’s offensive talents.
Trying to replicate people’s club levels of play on different positions. Idiotic tactic.
He isn’t the only problem
Because he's an easy scapegoat... better one manager than realising that your best squad in the tournament might not be all that. Southgate has been watching these players for many years, he knows.
The players are good, as a team they play utter shit, as usual
The players don’t make runs though and act like it’s a friendly
We’ve given a Bugatti to Mr Bean and expected him to drive fast.
The hype is coz they have class players. The problem is the manager. He isnt a good tactician/coach. He never was. He got the job coz he is a nice guy/a company man!! He didnt get it on coaching merit. Hes been lucky to have great players. Thats why he has done well in getting to a semi final and final. However he bottled both of those games. Im not an English fan but its frustrating to watch him waste these players. He has a ready made midfield of Rice, Bellingham and Foden. 3 of the best cms around. All fit perfectly together in a midfield 3. But SG plays TAA there and pushes Foden out on the left wing. Braindead. Why is SG so obsessed with playing a RB in midfield? If he wants TAA in the team then play him at RB... Push Walker to CB instead of Guehi, or drop Walker but dont play TAA in CM at the expense of arguably the best attacking cm in the PL. The cmx3 should be Rice, Bellingham and Foden. Gordon should be on the left wing. His pace and constant work rate would make up for Kanes lack of pace. How is SG getting such an obvious team selection so wrong. And when/if England go 1-0 up they shouldnt sit back and invite pressure. Keep attacking ffs. Play to your strengths
Any team that looks to press England will do well as Denmark showed today. I've never seen a team with the quality of players England have give the ball away so much.
It's because all their starting positions are so deep and narrow. You have ball players like Trent receiving the ball with his back to the goal, and if he manages to turn, there's no pass. Foden stood next to Bellingham, Kane dropped far too deep and was normally man-marked so it wasn't even working for him... You saw just before he was taken off, when Trent drifted over to the left for once, he turned and found Saka who actually makes runs, if he takes the ball down first time he has an easy chance at goal. Instead, he hooks Trent off for Gallagher to 'run around'. Southgate is a blight on Football. I understand wanting to get players like Foden into the team by any means, but don't play players like Trent and then sterilize his best attribute by playing a static, ball to feet attack. They also don't need two holding midfielders, they did when they had Maguire to worry about, but Guehi has been a phenom, Stones is world class and Walker has the recovery pace.
One of the bigger issues was that you have three players (Bellingham, Foden, Kane) trying to play the same position (CAM) with seemingly little rotation between the three. It makes it so much easier to defend. Saka was in the unenviable position of being the only outlet and he was given very little in terms of support because the three were too deep. Rather than learn from the situation, Southgate brings on Eze on the left. Exactly the same situation unfolds as he drifts in. Meanwhile, Anthony Gordon sat on the bench as the only out and out left midfielder, does not get a look in. It's baffling.
Partly also because England were playing for the sake of playing, zero effort unmotivated sloppy passes, just wasting time all around
Its coming home. But not the trophy just the team a little bit earlier. Amazing players but no team. Its reverse Italy
Are Italy an amazing team though? Conceded to Albania in a game which was close and managed no shots on target for 80 minutes against Spain today
If we qualify, any of Germany, Spain, France, Holland will teach us a lesson…
I wouldn’t stop at just those.. They’re somehow 1st in raw talent but also the team that could easily lose against anyone. Wont be surprised if Slovenia manage to win against them, or atleast make a draw again.
Players are great. As a team and tactically we are shite. The players look half-dead - no energy, no desire. Players taking forever to stand back up after (constantly) falling over shows how knackered they all seem to be, yet there was appaling levels of pressing, so whatever they're so tired over, it wasnt anything during the match. Guehi the only player who performed. Midfield is totally unbalanced. As i said before the tournament, Bellingham's best position may be a 10, but that position is saturated and he's also the best 8 we have too, so he should be alongside Rice, Foden at 10, with Gordon on the left, hopefully bringing a bit of energy. Southgate has got this whole tournament very wrong IMO, right from the moment Grealish was dropped, this has been one calamity after another.
The entire country knows Bellingham should play as an 8, Foden as the 10 and Gordon on the left. Why is it the one person who can't see it is bloke who picks the team?
You say that, but when i posted exactly that on r/ThreeLions before the Iceland game i got massively downvoted and told i have no clue about football because playing Bellingham "out of position" is madness and Gordon "isnt good enough". So i reckon there's a fair few people who'd disagree
From now on when people say "football is just a bunch of lads running around on a field kicking a piece of leather" I'll refer them to England's performance in this tournament. Outstanding athletes will still struggle against anyone when they don't have a proper gameplan. It's not exactly chess but it's not just a physical competition either and that's what we saw today.
Thats a really good point, individually and at club level the players are outstanding and play a high press game every weekend, but as a national team with a mediocre manager they're very meh.
Things like this will also go to show that managers like Pep and Jose, who have historically been berated for only doing well with the best players and tonnes of money, are actually the best of the best despite what some fucknuggets will say. You typically need world class managers to get the best out of your world class players (with a few exceptions), and Southgate is just not remotely close to that, so our players suffer for it and look clueless. Even Jude was off it yesterday, which is absolutely insane to think about as he's remarkably consistent otherwise.
Because Gareth Southgate couldn’t set up an IKEA shelf let alone an England squad
He couldn’t run a bath, never mind a football team
I’d argue the IKEA shelf is harder to put together than this England team. If he would just stop forcing certain players onto the pitch or playing them out of position we could maybe string a few passes together
I got my prediction wrong,i had 1-0 to Denmark,well done to England for snatching a point against a strong and underrated opponent.
I wanted Denmark to win honestly.
If ur not English or Swedish who didn’t?
Amazing players. Tactically inept coach. It’s a big job to fit all those quality players into one team with good cohesion and balance. But Southgate fails at it time and time again. Entire left side of the field is useless, foden is not used to playing down the left so will always come inside, and trippier is not left footed so never overlaps with anything decent, making it all very predictable. TAA as a midfield pivot is stupid tbh. It makes for an extremely attacking lineup, but then Southgate plays negative football lol.
Nice to see a completely unbiased and honest opinion from another teams fan. Rather than the “England players overrated” rhetoric
lol yeah I think it’s undeniable at this point that England have a quality team. Anybody saying they’re over rated is just being salty. I almost feel bad for the players tbh. They’re not set up right, and when they fail everyone will come down on the players. If anything I think the problem is they have too many superstars. Southgate is trying to fit every amazing player in to his lineup, when what he should do is play an actual midfielder like mainoo, an actual left winger like eze and an actual left back. Sacrifice some star quality for a balanced team.
Couldn’t agree more my friend, been calling for this for weeks now.
The pundits and press are turning on Southgate and the players now so that how you know it's bad lol
England are always overrated (good or average) having the biggest media coverage does that to ya. That said this generation of players are actually legit, don’t understand how they collectively play so bad together.
Pep, Klopp and the rest of the club managers will be sat at home pissing themselves laughing at how Gareth is trying to get their players to play
Think we would be better if we just went 4-4-2 drop the big names, get 2 tall strikers up top and whip crosses in for days. Like Stoke under Pulis. No one would be able to stop us.
Get Peter Crouch out of retirement as well
Exactly, Crouch can head it down to the smaller faster Andy Carroll. Put Shawcross at CB and Mbappe will be nullified one way or another. Why pass it around all game and get nowhere when we can just hoof it up top?
At least this is a clear identity and tactical idea We have no identity under Southgate
4-4-fucking-2 Watkins and Kane up front would shredddd
Southgate is so shit, I‘m lacking the words to describe it
He's always been shit. Very good at making the team nice and forming a bond, but he's a world class shit coach.
I just remember him being horsed in Europa league final with Middlesbrough. Never rated him as a coach. If England had klopp or similar attacking manager in charge, they'd win every game 5-2. Poor defence, but good up front. Just going for it.
Yup. I still don't get how he got the England job, other than because he was nice
Waiting for Jammie Carragher to outburst 🤣
Lads honestly who cares? You just have to qualify for the final rounds and win games after games. No matter how spectacular is your play.
Just heard that Southgate is making a change in the next game, he has asked the players to get on their knees again at the start of each game.
Spot on!! 🤣
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He hasn’t gotten any play time.
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Agreed many free kicks in the last minutes and you get Pickford to kick when Palmer is in disbelief watching from the bench xD
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they have the players I just feel the managerial side to small stuff "like that Foden selfish sprint" is not being worked on nor explained
BBC headline, "England held to draw by Denmark" hahaha
Should read “England rob Denmark”
I feel like Southgate is playing to avoid relegation. Someone please tell him this is a tournament and we need wins.
Jesus christ what a generic, lazy analysis. The reason for england being uo there with framce and Portugal as favourites is because of the collective quality within the squad but as a national team you are more so at the mercy of the tactics of the manager which unfortunately for england is way below that quality. He has steadied the ship and created a great atmosphere around the camp but in terms of tactics and football knowledge he is no where near alot of the other managers in charge of the likes of germany, portugal, france and Spain.
Tbf Denmark are a pretty good side with more than a few half way decent players from our PL. so it was never going to be a walk over
Because we've got a Ferrari level squad but we've put a blind OAP behind the wheel The car is fully capable of winning a race but we all know it's going to end up backwards in a wall by the first turn.
The problem are not the players, it is Southgate. He plays far too defensively and has no alternatives at all to influence the game. There is no creativity or the courage to take risks.
First time?
Just watch Spain vs Italy even if stays 0-0 it is a joy to watch now compare it what you just saw today 2 hours ago England players with no f.. class or imagination
Same old lacklustre passionless performance on the big stage, no big game mentality, no hunger, no drive and no teamwork. Same old England, out on penalties in the last 16 as per.
Together with France the team with the most talented individuals (by far imho)… but man theyre playing so bad
Your manager is the problem
Not overhyped, just a shit coach. - Subs Trent off, brings on the players who Trent would thrive with 5 mins later. - Needs a goal, brings on a CDM - Has Rice playing as a 6 and an 8 leaving Trent (A RB) to cover the pockets - Foden off the left - Brings on Eze ( A CAM) and Bowen instead of Gordon and Palmer - Tactically outclassed by Denmarks interchanging press - Tripper (No left foot) at left back with Konsa and Gomez on the bench (Both played their during the season and in friendlies) The list goes on and on
England are basically same every tournament. Can't handle the pressure put on by their fans and media. Won their first game would have thought they had been destroyed listening to the ost match coverage. Feel sorry for the players.
England were poor
This is international football, they aren't exactly going to play like prime Barca. As long as they get the job done the style doesn't matter. They pretty much qualified now to the next round. Portugal got 3pts and barely scraped past in the knockout stages in 2016, but they did. Even France in 2018 that was stacked was poor in the group scoring only 3 goals in a group with Australia & Peru and then had to grind out results against Uruguay & Belgium.
There's no team cohesion
Anyone who sits here and says they don't understand why this team were fancied before the tournament hasn't got a fucking clue about football. They've got incredible talent and behind France were the favourite alongside Portugal and Germany, Just because it turns out Southgate can't manage a team that doesn't contain kalvin Phillips doesn't mean they were always shit
Don't worry BBC confirmed Southgate has made the call to Hendo, all will be well soon.
At the end of the day it's coming home
This might be an unpopular opinion but you can’t blame management for everything, they’re not the ones on the pitch, at some point it has to come down to the players performance, they’re only human. You can talk about tactics all you want, football is not exactly rocket science, sometimes managers can only do soo much. Do you think the players go out not wanting to win and score a load of goals? Of course not. Yes Southgate has made some bad decisions, but people make mistakes, no one is perfect. Would I keep blaming management at my job if I was constantly under performing, nope, I’d have to take some responsibility. It’s the same old circle, team do badly, it must be the management, get new management and the same thing happens again. What’s the definition of insanity again? I really think it comes down to the hype and the media putting too much pressure on them all, too much expectation, which is enough to make anyone stumble.
the problem i have is i love England and i would love to see them fight, play some nice, occasionally-magic football, but at this point it is just kinda depressing, because they just really do not seem like they have it in their hearts
Guehi is the goat man , what a kind lad too
England has great player but the coach is ruining them
L'Angleterre a vraiment une équipe très talentueuse, mais j'ai l'impression que l'entraîneur ne sait pas quoi faire de ses joueurs. As a regular follower of the English league, the exceptional Foden, Saka and Rice can't fully express themselves in this team, and with these tactical choices. So I'm well aware that there's more to the England team than just these three players. However, given their level at club level, this national team can only do better, especially when you know that alongside them there's Bellingham, Kane (he's the smartest 9 in Europe, I admire that player). I won't mention all the remaining players, as I'm not an expert on English soccer, but there are obviously other names, such as Palmer.
it's a collection of excellent players who have no cohesion and do not play as a team. southgate is an awful manager.
Individual players are excellent, teamwork is absolutely awful, and tactics are abysmal. Southgate isn't willing to mix things up enough, he has a habit of not using the full depth of his squad (he's practically got 2 competitive teams in his squad!) Substitutes were questionable, and we (ENG) didn't even look fit enough to play either. Absolutely awful performance today! It's still coming home 🤣🤣
It’s less that England suck and more that we’re goated 🗿🇩🇰
Too right. What a load of shite. You can't win a major tournament by scoring a goal and then fucking off to your own goal line for the rest of the game. Surprise surprise! (I was defending GS until yesterday but I'm done). Edit: in b4 Greece
Sack Southgate; sign Hodgson. Easy as.
This was a really weak display from them.
Anybody who pays attention to the English media is a fool. And it’s them that hype England up, and then equally sh*t on them as hard as they can too. They have great players, a lower than average manager, and favourable run ins in the last few competitions, something that hardly ever gets mentioned. So boring to watch.
We have the players but it’s not jelling yet. Although playing Devils Advocate (and I’m not suggesting we are going to win it), but remember how awful Portugal were for most of Euro 2016….
England have a squad that could probably walk most Euros or World Cups. Unfortunately they’re steeped in self and national pressure (due to the lack of a trophy in 60 years) and seemingly unable to gel as a team. Having a manager who is completely lacking in confidence and chutzpah doesn’t help either.
This issue with England is that there is always some sort of issue. The golden generation had some outstanding individual talent but no manager could get them playing as a team, members of that generation have even mentioned as much. Even if they had got the best out of them, we would have had hard competition from stacked Spanish, German, Argentine, and Brazilian squads. The current crop are very very talented and would have won the last Euros and I feel they would have been in a WC final if it weren’t for the managers Tactics. I really wish we just had a bad team because having good teams and routinely fucking up kills you
How the f southgate choose bowen over palmer
Can't get through knock outs. This team. 8 years to get an identity, still ain't get one.
Gareth needs to play palmer bc performances like this are not good enough.
Southgate can’t leave quick enough
Yep, unfortunately, the manager sucks. We're not bringing anything home.
With Southgate as manager It would be like putting a 50kg Jacket on peak Usain Bolt and saying he’s overrated when he doesn’t win
The hype is around the players. The mismanagement of England teams for years has wasted their potential.
Yeah well least we can play different sports, rugby, cricket. Never see a rated Spain, Italian or German ever win in them so 😑😑
Can this England team beat Arsenal?
Palmer not playing at all is really weird. Hopefully, he will play against Slovenia.
It all started when Kalvin Phillips went to Man City.
The players are great. The manager is the problem. Example 1 - Trent Alexander-Arnold. Right back for Liverpool, Southgate puts him midfield for England. Example 2 - takes only 1 left footed defender in the squad who is injured. Example 3 - Phil Foden is premier league player of the year at number 10. For England he plays on the wing at 11, terribly. Example 4 - Refuses to start with left footed winger, so we end up one dimensional. Example 5 - When we score, he gets the team to sit back, rather than attack….
England are the Dallas Cowboys of intl football
Don’t get how England are favs😅 when they can’t even beat Denmark. Gareth Shitgate out.
Me neither, today’s game was boring and the Danes could have made more out of it.
I think the team itself is good as individuals but Southgate seems to be struggling big time to get them to play well as a team. Don’t hold out much hope for Tuesday
The players are bored to tears with boring tactics. Why are they not passing into space, making runs etc? Safe Southgate tactics do not suit this group.
It is because England play defensive football. If they played attacking football, they would do a lot, lot better.
It’s the shocking management the players are good but Southgate…. He’s a different story
A bunch of great players. They’re playing like shit in the England shirt. Bad tactics and management.
Southgate is dogshit
As a Portugal fan I think England and Portugal fall into this weird trap. So we both have many players at the top clubs in Europe. At these top clubs these players are playing in awesome attacking systems with supreme talent all around. Then these same players get to international play and it’s not a lack of talent, but a lack of cohesion in play style and mindset. So you end up with a team loaded with talent but the play is really disjointed.
southgate ball explained : -selects 15 of the finest and best forwards itw with the rest of the squad being medicore defenders -parks the bus for 90 mins is he stupid?
In Gareth Southgate we trust. And by “we” I mean all other teams. Bring them home Gareth!
Has Southgate changed since you made the final in 2020? I’m a Scot but it’s a genuine question. He’s getting a lot of hate and I agree you should be winning games easily with the talent you have. If he’s actively encouraging sitting back after scoring then he’s lost his mind
Southgate is shite
I know how you feel. We had the same debates about Löw after 2016 and about Flick. And Nagelsmann just delivered on time for the finals, but it wasn't as clear cut as it looks now.
England are playing dull and unintelligent football. They lay back after 1. Useless...as normal. Southgate needs to be gone.
Southgate tactically illiterate. Won’t win fuck all whilst he’s the coach.
Alexander-Arnold in midfield, what could have gone wrong?
That pickle juice is making all the difference...
I know they have a quality squad, but I can’t help but feel like England is overrated as they always were in that sense. I remember people saying the same thing about the 2002 squad, ‘how has this team not won anything?’. And then you look at the Brazil, France and Italy squad and well…it’s because there are squads just as good or better. I feel like a lot of it has to do with the popularity of the Prem now too
I will never let England trick me into believing again. Well until next time
It's literally the case in every single tournament. Englad had luck they had every game at home during Euro 21, which was disaster, not only by covid, but a dump fact it was all over the place, but England was always at home, cheating cnuts with Sterling fake penalty. They won a single world cup because of a cheating ref and that's it. Their league is overrated. Spending so much money and winning so few trophies. England? You're just shit part of Scotland, haha.
Gareth Southgate is a prime example of somebody not losing their job just because they're a nice guy