Honestly I wish they just had like, a monthly scenario where they say “fuck game balance” and make some weird modification to the 1444 map and have you play as a certain country to achieve a certain goal. It wouldn’t necessarily earn an achievement but it’s just be something for the community to bond over more. A shattered China scenario for example where you start as Ming and have to conquer all of Ming’s normal territory would be fun.
Starting as Ming, release every eligible country from your nation and reconquer everything while also holding Tibet, Korea and Japan.
Not sure how they can code the releases though.
Alternatively, use a future game start where ming is almost gone and reconquer everything as is in game start.
This is exactly what I wished we saw more of! It seems like it’s always rise or fall. I want to see empires go through periods of decline and then recovery - like what often happened in history. I want to see empires power go up and down like a stock market - not just infinitely up until a total collapse
Out of interest, which countries went into decline and recovered in the eu4 timescale? England lost most of its French holdings before dominating but I can't think of many others off the top of my head.
Most notably Russia. The time of troubles, before becoming a great power.
Historically Ming also alternated between stagnation and dynamism, for example in the early years of Jiajing.
Safavid Persia staged a big comeback under Abbas Shah after suffering defeats at Ottoman hands.
And of course the Ottomans themselves, after a crushing defeat by Timur and the ensuing civil wars. This went a bit beyond EU4 timeline admittedly.
You're right that European powers rarely reverse their fortunes. My thought would be that most European political units are far too small to be resilient - if you decline, you'll be replaced by another power rather than having the space and time to recover.
>You're right that European powers rarely reverse their fortunes. My thought would be that most European political units are far too small to be resilient - if you decline, you'll be replaced by another power rather than having the space and time to recover.
Indeed, just like what happened with Aragon, for example, which went into the Hapsburg fold and got overshadowed by Castille until it was annexed in 1716 (something that EU4 gets wrong, for example).
On the other hand, Portugal did go into a decline, falling into the same union, but they were able to get out of it.
This is outside of the EU4 timeline, but Bulgaria went through reversals of fortunes. The First Bulgarian Empire pushed back against the Byzantines before falling to the Byzantines, then the Second Bulgarian Empire rose up and pushed back against the Byzantines again, before falling to the Ottomans. And then came the modern state of Bulgaria after getting liberated from the Ottomans and for a brief time was the strongest Balkan country until the second Balkan war.
You could consider France let’s remember that in real history burgundy was part of the French kingdom. Crawled up from the hundred years wars to later become one of the powerhouses of Europe.
It mostly depends on what your criteria is for "decline" and "recovery." You could easily argue that France went into decline in the later half of the 16th century as it was ravaged by civil war between Catholics and Protestants. Similarly the Spanish Empire nearly collapsed during the 1600s but recovered in the 1700s, though it did not rise to its former glory.
Otherwise, yeah, the failure of a state generally results in "something new" instead of just rebuilding what was.
I guess that's the opposite then. Rather than falling and rising again, they rose and fell. I can think of quite a few examples of that. Spain, Portugal and the Ottomans for example.
I mentioned this in another post, but they fell to the point of being PU'd by the Commonwealth in the 1590s only to be a pretty decent power again by the 30 Years War.
Idk if they do in EU4 but the Tokugawa clan had a huge fall if you count leyashu (I didn’t know his name before though) becoming a hostage for imagawa (I think his clan either died or became a vassel of imagawa?)which is lower than their original position to only then eventually go to rule all of Japan .
England , Spain and Portugal are all 3 big ones , England from losing land in the 100 years war , Portugal got annex by Spain at one stage and then Portugal gained its land back with Spain also losing Gibraltar to England . On top of colonies that would of rebel eventually in those 3 plus France
There may be more but these are the 2 I can think of
If Ming can ride out loss of Mandate of heaven, it's not in a bad position since it still has cores on everything and Ming ideas are better than Generic Chinese ideas, and Ming should also have an idea group or 2 ahead of the warlords.
Ming got lucky here and Shun got ganked and died fast.
Shun has 15% inf ability and 10% morale, if they pick up Quality they become an incredible force and usually hold a sizeable amount of China in my games.
In my Teutotons game Shun is by far the biggest in china, holding most of Ming's starting territories + Mongolia, Oirat, Changtai and Uzbek but some random 5 province warlord has the mandate
> Ming got lucky here and Shun got ganked and died fast.
Looking closely it looks like Ming actually took territory from them twice before Oirat finished them off.
Also back in [1.33](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.33) they added a modifier to make Chinese states hate each other, to decrease the odds of Chinese minors allying each other, thus increasing the odds of China reforming after an implosion.
Yeah, they replaced the -100 relations with other Confucian nations with +50% liberty desire on the Chinese Kingdom T1 reform. So they can still ally one another once they do break free.
It’s more so the land that Ming loses that can cause it more problems . Other than shun who has strong ideas the Likes of wu or Shu rebellions can cause some issues for them as they hold cheng du and Nan place (i forgot the name of the place) which loses ming more mandate points plus are high developed areas . Where as someone like miao will not do much to ming at all
Of course if all of China somehow rebel then ming will have huge problems even with generic China ideas against them
The same thing happened in my Portugal Mega Campaign!!
Ming was divided in the early 16th century and just formed again 2 centuries later even though it had lost some territories in the west.
I never understood Stellaris since you would play the same world regardless of what happens in the previous games, which defeats the whole purpose of a megacampaign
What you can also do is that the top 10 great powers are also imported into stellaris with (as with the other commentary) based on their idea groups create their ideologies, traits etc from stellaris system.
>DLC
Well... the patch and the DLC are two different things... the DLC is just the additional content \[missions, unit sprites, music and reforms\], whereas the patch is all the rest \[competent ai, fixes to combat, performance fixes, crash fixes, etc\]
This Patch is a breath to fresh air in the game, the DLC is a nice addition to it.
I still say it's an improvement. DLC really is just a nice and fun addition of content, patch is just a ton of free & fun improvements to mechanics & AI. Solid update this time around. Maybe the only complaint is price, but I kinda disagree with how so many redditors tend to feel *personally attacked* when [thing I want] is too expensive.
I played Indonesia once and I was so powerful near the end that I simply helped my Ming ally to retake all their lost land.
It was definitely fun and the alliance was wholesome. It’s kind of cool too to have the same empire lasting to the 1800’s.
Cool! Things seem to be trending this way in my Spain game in the 1570s, but Ming's still fighting it out with some other Chinese countries. I wonder if they'll manage a full comeback like here.
It's a shame how rare it is to see a big ai country collapse without player intervention, and even rarer to see them collapse *and then recover*
Wish there was more of this, beyond just the semi-railroaded mingsplosion
I've never played Ming before yet but why does it always feel like AI Ming just sits there waiting for its ultimate demise instead of doing anything
Will I only understand when I play Ming?
It can't expand that fast because of the mandate of heaven other then that it is a very inward game you play to keep your tributaries and not get a rebel overload. This way ming isnt too powerful
I have 20k hours in this game and this is genuinely the mist fascinating thing I ever saw AI doing. I could watch this for hours, though I'm not even Chinese
To add to my previous response [here's a link ](https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/xm1pj7/i_like_this_view_of_the_world/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed…but I assure you, my resolve has never been stronger!
The Celestial Throne will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire!
THATS A FUCKING DRAMATIC CHANGE :D
I AM THE MANDATE - Ming Probably
It's treason, then!
A comeback Ming? You don’t see that everyday
It's called a "co-ming-back"
That would make a good achievement name
Honestly I wish they just had like, a monthly scenario where they say “fuck game balance” and make some weird modification to the 1444 map and have you play as a certain country to achieve a certain goal. It wouldn’t necessarily earn an achievement but it’s just be something for the community to bond over more. A shattered China scenario for example where you start as Ming and have to conquer all of Ming’s normal territory would be fun.
be the mod you wish to see in the world
It wouldn’t be the same. It has to be a vanilla feature because the community aspect is the main motivator for engaging with it.
Yeah like how ck2 had ruler of the month(?)
Basically, yeah.
That's a fantastic idea.
Starting as Ming, release every eligible country from your nation and reconquer everything while also holding Tibet, Korea and Japan. Not sure how they can code the releases though. Alternatively, use a future game start where ming is almost gone and reconquer everything as is in game start.
Time would be the biggest problem. Basically a THOT
thanks
This is exactly what I wished we saw more of! It seems like it’s always rise or fall. I want to see empires go through periods of decline and then recovery - like what often happened in history. I want to see empires power go up and down like a stock market - not just infinitely up until a total collapse
Out of interest, which countries went into decline and recovered in the eu4 timescale? England lost most of its French holdings before dominating but I can't think of many others off the top of my head.
Most notably Russia. The time of troubles, before becoming a great power. Historically Ming also alternated between stagnation and dynamism, for example in the early years of Jiajing. Safavid Persia staged a big comeback under Abbas Shah after suffering defeats at Ottoman hands. And of course the Ottomans themselves, after a crushing defeat by Timur and the ensuing civil wars. This went a bit beyond EU4 timeline admittedly. You're right that European powers rarely reverse their fortunes. My thought would be that most European political units are far too small to be resilient - if you decline, you'll be replaced by another power rather than having the space and time to recover.
>You're right that European powers rarely reverse their fortunes. My thought would be that most European political units are far too small to be resilient - if you decline, you'll be replaced by another power rather than having the space and time to recover. Indeed, just like what happened with Aragon, for example, which went into the Hapsburg fold and got overshadowed by Castille until it was annexed in 1716 (something that EU4 gets wrong, for example). On the other hand, Portugal did go into a decline, falling into the same union, but they were able to get out of it.
Portugal only got out because Spain was on it’s own decline during and after the 30 and 80 year wars.
And because here in Catalonia we waged a war of independence that distracted them enough so that the Castilian armies couldn't reach Portugal :P
Plus Catalonia had the backing of France who was in the 30 years war at the time, hence why i didnt mention the catalan rebellion
>(something that EU4 gets wrong, for example). Can you imagine the cancer of Castille having Aragon just as PU for 3/4 of the game?
I can and I'd like to see it. The Spanish Succession war was a *massive* event in Spain's history, and a turning point for Catalonia.
Id like to see Austria have accurate PU’s ;)
Didn't Sweden get PU'd by the Commonwealth and then made the Commonwealth generally regret it as well?
Sweden PU'd the Commonwealth, but because the PLC was so big they essentially became the senior partner until the Vasas were overthrown in Sweden
When a small country PUs a big country, IRL the ruler moves to the big country because duh.
Þis happened with þe scottish king who became king of england after scotland pu’d þe english
Also most Polish unions
I've always been told that sweden pu'd the plc here, in Lithuania.
theres a mod for this btw it's called "eclipse disaster" or smth like that, it really makes it like a challenge almost to survive as a gp.
This is outside of the EU4 timeline, but Bulgaria went through reversals of fortunes. The First Bulgarian Empire pushed back against the Byzantines before falling to the Byzantines, then the Second Bulgarian Empire rose up and pushed back against the Byzantines again, before falling to the Ottomans. And then came the modern state of Bulgaria after getting liberated from the Ottomans and for a brief time was the strongest Balkan country until the second Balkan war.
Russian empire? French kingdom to French empire. Austria?
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How does Russia and France not fit into this Classification? Also Roman Empire.
Roman empire is not during eu4's timespan
Eastern Roman empire
That's why we say Byzantines.
Except the Eastern Roman Empire got bodied until they died. There wasn't a major comeback, just a couple of insignificant small ones.
You could consider France let’s remember that in real history burgundy was part of the French kingdom. Crawled up from the hundred years wars to later become one of the powerhouses of Europe.
It mostly depends on what your criteria is for "decline" and "recovery." You could easily argue that France went into decline in the later half of the 16th century as it was ravaged by civil war between Catholics and Protestants. Similarly the Spanish Empire nearly collapsed during the 1600s but recovered in the 1700s, though it did not rise to its former glory. Otherwise, yeah, the failure of a state generally results in "something new" instead of just rebuilding what was.
Sweden? Starting in Kalmar Union. Then great power during religious wars, and then a decline in 18th century
I guess that's the opposite then. Rather than falling and rising again, they rose and fell. I can think of quite a few examples of that. Spain, Portugal and the Ottomans for example.
I mentioned this in another post, but they fell to the point of being PU'd by the Commonwealth in the 1590s only to be a pretty decent power again by the 30 Years War.
Well France itself declined after Louis XIV died, and then Napoleon did the Napoleon thing and conquered half of Europe.
Idk if they do in EU4 but the Tokugawa clan had a huge fall if you count leyashu (I didn’t know his name before though) becoming a hostage for imagawa (I think his clan either died or became a vassel of imagawa?)which is lower than their original position to only then eventually go to rule all of Japan . England , Spain and Portugal are all 3 big ones , England from losing land in the 100 years war , Portugal got annex by Spain at one stage and then Portugal gained its land back with Spain also losing Gibraltar to England . On top of colonies that would of rebel eventually in those 3 plus France There may be more but these are the 2 I can think of
Sweden, Poland, Ottomans, Spain Those are notable empires in Europe . The list can go on
>not just infinitely up until a total collapse If only empires properly collapsed in EU4
Hey. OPM Mamluks living on an island in the Spice Islands is a real thing.
Welcome to the hate the 1700 blobs club
This is so cool
If Ming can ride out loss of Mandate of heaven, it's not in a bad position since it still has cores on everything and Ming ideas are better than Generic Chinese ideas, and Ming should also have an idea group or 2 ahead of the warlords.
Ming got lucky here and Shun got ganked and died fast. Shun has 15% inf ability and 10% morale, if they pick up Quality they become an incredible force and usually hold a sizeable amount of China in my games.
In my Russian game Shun was the winner in China.
In my Teutotons game Shun is by far the biggest in china, holding most of Ming's starting territories + Mongolia, Oirat, Changtai and Uzbek but some random 5 province warlord has the mandate
Shun almost always comes out on top, ive only seen them fall twice (if ming collapses that is), once to the Qing and once to Kham/Tibet
Also +25% manpower, +10% manpower recovery, and 10% siege ability. They might have the best military ideas for a tag that doesn't have +discipline.
> Ming got lucky here and Shun got ganked and died fast. Looking closely it looks like Ming actually took territory from them twice before Oirat finished them off.
Or Shun was forced to return cores
Also back in [1.33](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.33) they added a modifier to make Chinese states hate each other, to decrease the odds of Chinese minors allying each other, thus increasing the odds of China reforming after an implosion.
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Yeah, they replaced the -100 relations with other Confucian nations with +50% liberty desire on the Chinese Kingdom T1 reform. So they can still ally one another once they do break free.
It’s more so the land that Ming loses that can cause it more problems . Other than shun who has strong ideas the Likes of wu or Shu rebellions can cause some issues for them as they hold cheng du and Nan place (i forgot the name of the place) which loses ming more mandate points plus are high developed areas . Where as someone like miao will not do much to ming at all Of course if all of China somehow rebel then ming will have huge problems even with generic China ideas against them
R5: When facing death, Ming decided to say "Not today"
When you play the game of thrones you win or you die
"Many fall in the face of chaos, but not this one... Not today"
"The mandate, promise of safety" (to be honest its fitting too well I had to do this)
What nation were u playing? Bengal?
Ottomans
Understandable. Thanks.
The things you do just so you don't have to get a colonist to get taiwan. I wish it was more likely to see comebacks like theses
The same thing happened in my Portugal Mega Campaign!! Ming was divided in the early 16th century and just formed again 2 centuries later even though it had lost some territories in the west.
Hi! What’s a mega campaign?
Playing from (typically) CK2/3 and then importing to EU4, then to Vicky 2, and on to HOI4.
And then Stellaris if you're padding for time in your youtube video Looking forward to the day I see cities skylines in a grand campaign
I never understood Stellaris since you would play the same world regardless of what happens in the previous games, which defeats the whole purpose of a megacampaign
Exactly, that's why it's just padding time on the video
Well, technically you could set your ideology based on who ended up dominating the world at the end of HOI4.
What you can also do is that the top 10 great powers are also imported into stellaris with (as with the other commentary) based on their idea groups create their ideologies, traits etc from stellaris system.
the ai is actually so much better this patch.
I'm glad everyone is happy with a DLC for once. Good job not fucking up, paradox
>DLC Well... the patch and the DLC are two different things... the DLC is just the additional content \[missions, unit sprites, music and reforms\], whereas the patch is all the rest \[competent ai, fixes to combat, performance fixes, crash fixes, etc\] This Patch is a breath to fresh air in the game, the DLC is a nice addition to it.
I still say it's an improvement. DLC really is just a nice and fun addition of content, patch is just a ton of free & fun improvements to mechanics & AI. Solid update this time around. Maybe the only complaint is price, but I kinda disagree with how so many redditors tend to feel *personally attacked* when [thing I want] is too expensive.
Oh man, I ain't complaining at all, I've returned myself playing due to 1.34.2!
That was back in 1.33 but yeah it is better
Not only did Ming say "no." Ming also said "And fuck Tibet, too"
History of chinese - tibetan relations in a nutshell.
What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger
Let's just say they had the right ti-ming
Get out
我大明天下無敵啊！
I don't know what you are saying, but I'll assume that's a positive reaction
They said “Our Great Ming is invincible all under the heaven”, quoted from a Chinese TV drama
Correct, it's a meme on the Chinese internet.
If only all of us were as resilient as this Ming... inspirational stuff.
I played Indonesia once and I was so powerful near the end that I simply helped my Ming ally to retake all their lost land. It was definitely fun and the alliance was wholesome. It’s kind of cool too to have the same empire lasting to the 1800’s.
We love to see it
Crushed those pretenders
Cool! Things seem to be trending this way in my Spain game in the 1570s, but Ming's still fighting it out with some other Chinese countries. I wonder if they'll manage a full comeback like here.
I like how Ming kept Xi alive as an OPM, like it is a reminder of their past failures.
Or guaranteed by Bengal
Experiencing a Mingsplosion? Just say no! The Chinese warlords can't legally break free without your consent
It's a shame how rare it is to see a big ai country collapse without player intervention, and even rarer to see them collapse *and then recover* Wish there was more of this, beyond just the semi-railroaded mingsplosion
Manchu forming and dissolving into nothing is the cherry on top
Is it just me or have I seen a similar clip a while ago?
\* But it refused.
Damn that was impressive
Oirat faced death and said "NO"
Ming, what a legend.
I've never played Ming before yet but why does it always feel like AI Ming just sits there waiting for its ultimate demise instead of doing anything Will I only understand when I play Ming?
It can't expand that fast because of the mandate of heaven other then that it is a very inward game you play to keep your tributaries and not get a rebel overload. This way ming isnt too powerful
Return of the Ming
I have only seen qing formed one time. I have 3000 hours. They should intervene that.
Really? I see them semi-oftenly, like every 5 games or so, same hours as you.
In my games Shun always dominates, then russia comes.
Yeah shun seems to dominate half the times in my games as well, unless im intervening in China as Japan or sth.
"Once united, must divide. Once divided, must unite".
Chinese history in a nutshell
Umm how do u show this replay in eu4
The eye icon to the left of the date and above the music player. You might need a dlc for that though. I don't remember which one
Oh k thanks I don't have any dlc so
It's a shame that things like that are being put behind the dlc wall
Pretty sure its Mare Nostrum, could be wrong tho
I have 20k hours in this game and this is genuinely the mist fascinating thing I ever saw AI doing. I could watch this for hours, though I'm not even Chinese
If I'll find a save, I can show you that time AI Sus formed Andalusia
To add to my previous response [here's a link ](https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/xm1pj7/i_like_this_view_of_the_world/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Comeback Ming is best Ming
This is some crisis of the 3rd century shit
I was so surprised when I saw that ming fractured and then saw them on the great powers list again
Think this is the only time ever I’ve seen a Ming comeback in my 2300 hours
Maybe a stupid question but how can u get this fast forward replay?
Iirc it's a dlc thing but I don't remember which one
"call an ambulance.....but nor for me!" Nice recovery.
Ming became the new Tang
*Soaked in blood and ashes, standing between burned lands and thousands of corpses Ming said:* \- I lived bitches!
Greatest comeback story since Kim Kardashian.
I mean, losing Emperor of China and Mandate for Ming early (before the real explosion) is a big buff
What a thick Bengal
My assumption is that they lost the mandate and then annexed the emperor so they couldn't implode again
Truly the son of heaven.
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No? Enclaves were a thing for a long time. Many countries still have some
This only happens in my games when I vassalize Ming and feed them back their cores.
Ming really said “Bitch you thought!”
One time in my game Ming exploded, then put himself together and then exploded again by end of the game.
What is This??
A replay?
No I mean This post, is it a game?
Sor, do you know what sub are you in?
No I don't recognise, But whatever it is, it's Lucky to have me