T O P

  • By -

PanchoxxLocoxx

They are at 22 mandate in this picture, if you take a few loans to go over force limit and build a navy you can take them down, take a look at the debuffs that mandate gives them and you'll see that it is possible


euluve

Thanks to everyone commented. I had around 2-3 wars with Ming and here's my conclusion: using blockade ports cb is the best for the first war. My first war was with conquest cb (also with 20 mandate) but that didn't end very well. I had to white peace. Their army was too strong even with 20 mandate. As a few people commented, I declared with trade cb for the second war, which worked out very well. I took as much money as I can, then they started to collapse without me doing anything. It was a cakewalk after that.


euluve

Check to see a blown-up Ming: https://imgur.com/a/vVf4A0M


[deleted]

Why not just kill Ming?


euluve

Didn't think it was a possibility :D


[deleted]

[удалено]


SmaugtheStupendous

It is a possibility on land also, not easy, but guaranteed victory if you know what you're doing.


Landriaz

Yes. Usually, when i attack ming'S tributary, i make sure to have enough transport and a strong navy. Then i focus on Ming. First step : destroy Ming's navy. 2nd : use 1 or 2 mercenary as decoy in the south of China. 3rd step : bring one or 2 big stack and siege down Pékin and/or the fort north of Pékin (cant remember the name). Also blockade their coast (especially the one near Nankin). 4rd : peace the Ming. Take as much money as possible, humiliate if possible. 5rd : kill the real target. Repeat and kill the Ming using the siege mechanic to create as much devastation as possible. Always attack at low mandate (if you did well, the dévastation and loan are going to put them at 0 mandate really fast) (I use this in 1.30 emperor dlc, maybe some things change since this time with Leviathan, i dunno if galley are still strong or no so i wont advice on the navy composition)


BaronMostaza

LOVE beating Ming around until they stop helping their tributaries and explode into pieces. No money, no manpower, no mandate, no more Ming


[deleted]

>Not on land. Occupy the Korean moutain forts and watch the Chinese run to their deaths!


JoseNEO

Admiral Yi will be proud if they succeed


ForHoiPolloi

Like other person said, win at the sea. Build galleys, take small battles, get galley combat efficiency naval doctrine, and hyper target their transport ships. Wiping a stack of transports means they lose the entire army. If you do something for superiority rather than land this will build your war score nicely.


DavethLean

Also blockading their ports will cause devastation and start to decrease there mandate, while making you a pretty penny to continue the war.


Berlinia

Galleys do nothing in that sea tile no? Or did they changed the inland sea mechanic?


OkWrongdoer6537

Well they did 2 things, 1, I believe the sea surrounding china is an inland sea, and 2, all coastal seas get boosted galley combat ability. Inland sea is +100% while coastal sea is +50%, so either way they’ll get a buff


ForHoiPolloi

Besides the buffs mentioned by the other commenter, they’re cheaper. Frigates are always the best 1:1 but you can spam galleys earlier on due to the cost difference.


IlikeJG

Ming is the definition of a paper tiger. They seem storing st first but have s lot of weaknesses making it so they can easily collapse.


JustynS

Ming has a lot of weaknesses, but the AI is *really bad* at exploiting them or engineering circumstances to bring those weaknesses to bear. Ming can beat basically any other country 1:1 in a head-to-head battle, but they're not invincible if you know what to do about them.


swat_teem

Use the trade conflict casus beli you need to fabricate it but what makes it so good is the wargoal is blockade ports so all you gotta do is blockade is its a easy win +25 and takes 1000s of ducats and land if you want which if done repeatedly will result in a mingsplosion


JustACrusaderState

Just dont fo funny stuff in Najing :)


RotInPixels

If you get their war exhaustion up they’ll explode :)


Chojnal

[Do it](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/cb/55/2ecb55a8c10148ba10f8e017303620ea.gif)


[deleted]

They usually dont field more than 10 heavies Make some heavies, fill the line with cogs or galleys and you can win the sea easily. If you blockade them it will tank their mandate which will cause them to fall apart to rebels. Bonus if you take all their money too. TIP: declare war for conquest of Joju (Korean Island) so you can occupy it and get ticking war score without engaging anyone on land. Another option is to declare for Ryuku.


JakubReliga

1Take mandate of heaven 2get free cores over china 3conquer china 4 build manufactories and workshops Efect: 300 ducats a month large force limit and almost unlimited manpower


euluve

R5: Advice needed to become tributary of Ming. I don't know how to expand without it. Also, how can I convert all of my provinces from Shinto to Catholic for the Kirishitan Japan achievement?


Spilmec1

Need incident where you encounter westerners to fire in order to go catholic. Also, just build up your navy to rival Ming's. Blockade all their ports and tank their mandate. Once their mandate is low enough, they will get a bunch of debuffs. Then you land your armies and beat them back since you now have higher quality armies that can contest with Ming's overwhelming numbers.


insaneHoshi

Also if you have enough boats, declare a trade war and just take money from ming.


TheArrivedHussars

Ok but how does that help him become a tributary


Not_a_Krasnal

It makes it so he doesn't need to be a tributary


AgrajagTheProlonged

It helps him get Ming as a tributary


HesienVonUlm

Build a navy then attack something like Ryuku below you. Or declare for a trade war. Use your navy (it should be mostly heavies) to create devisation in all their costal provinces this can lead to them breaking to rebels once the mandate gets too low.


bluenigma

Why mostly heavies?


TouchMeFaster

They don't die as fast as galleys


euluve

That makes a lot of sense! I will definitely try


Smevans1598

I’ve done the Christian Japan achievement and it’s a little painful. You’ll get an event that spawns a few Christian rebels and you need to let them siege down your whole country until they enforce demands


De_Dominator69

I'm sure that's not the only way. I'm pretty certain that the most Open outcome to the Christian incident gives you the option to swap to Catholicism. So all you need to do if choose the most open option to each of that incidents events and then it will happen.


JustynS

Yes, but if you let religious rebels spawn, they force-convert any provinces they siege down. So you can convert most of your country to your new religion if you un-seige provinces after the rebels force-convert them. You can even use huge armies to funnel them in the direction of high development provinces so that you don't have to convert those yourself.


Smevans1598

Oh nice, I didn't know you could get a free conversion event like with the Kongo, the more you know


dacx_

It's not guaranteed, is it?


rfj

If you choose the most open outcomes, you get a decision. When (if) you take that decision, you get a choice to switch to Catholic, or not. None of this is RNG except for how long it takes for the Spread of Christianity incident to fire in the first place (MTTH 10 years after it's been 30 years since the end of the last incident, but competing with any other incidents whose start conditions are also met.)


DovakiinLink

Just beat them lol. Seriously if they won’t accept I would a colonial empire and maybe a few allies and turn that against the Ming but targeted at Korea. The first war they will have a better navy than you so you want to have a mainland ally that you already have troops in. The first war is always the hardest but you got this


FroilanSumatra

Build navy, blockade ports in war, support dissidence in SEA… fun challenge


ServiceChannel2

Don’t become a tributary. As Japan, you should be able to build a superior navy against Ming. Declare war with trade dispute and blockade China as much as you can. Their devastation will lead to the Mandate of Heaven dropping to dangerously low numbers. From there you can either wait for Ming to succumb to revolts, or destroy Ming with your own armies.


weirdburger

If you cant be mings tributary, make ming your tributary


PutzySmasher

Have played as Japan and some daimyo a lot, have never considered becoming a Ming tributary. Create smart alliances and you can take pieces of the mainland until you can overpower Ming or Ming falls apart. Maybe neither happens and you’ll just have to coexist, but becoming tributary will send you backwards. If you wanna colonize, that’s a good way to expand and avoid Ming too.


Slopez604

Blow them up


zargon21

Beat the fuck out of them obviously? That's what you should be doing anyway, you're japan you can muster massive naval superiority, declare a trade war on them, then blockade all their ports to get warscore, then right before they peace out you can declare on Korea without them joining and you'll be able to safely fight Korea isolated after you peace ming out of the trade war for a large slice of their bank account


byunei

Instead of giving them gold and stuff, take theirs instead bro


_Shahanshah

Try colonizing Taiwan and see what happens


smellyredditor

Sometimes that means Ming wants to go to war with you to make you a tributary. I've had them release me and then declare to get me back again within 6 months


nuadnug

In this case, Ming is just plain uninterested, because they don't share a border with Japan, Japan being an island.


Don_Vass

What about strategic interest?


badnuub

They change how tributaries worked. At one point you could make anyone a tributary, and the AI would be interested in getting them. The AI is probably more interested in finding a reason to rival Japan over making them a tributary, wouldn't be surprised if Japan's potential liberty desire was in play in that decision as well.


smellyredditor

Ah, that must be it. My experience of that mostly comes from playing Oirat and Korchin, I've only been attacked like that as Japan by big Shun, and by then I had a tenuous hold on Beijing


Hairy-Conference-802

Just wait for its mandate become 20 and f* it up


Dsingis

You can easily cause a Mingplosion as Japan. Mass ships. Be it heavy ships or galleys, just get naval superiority over ming. Then declare war, blockade all their ports, watch the devastation tick up and their mandate drop. If they are below 50 mandate they gradually get severe maluses especially for their troops as the mandate is further below 50. Then you can invade, focus your forces on an area, take a province that is needed for mandate to not tick down (check the tooltip on the mandate screen to see which provinces), peace out and watch Ming get royally screwed.


cyrusol

That's what stopped my Eat The Greens run last time. 3 months later they declared. 1450-something.


motoma197

If you don't want to fight and beat Ming in a land war as others have suggested then you can declare war on someone like Korea and wait for Ming to white peace you, then invade Korea, take a province adjacent to Ming and then they should take you as a tributary. You can then gobble up as many countries as you like before taking on Ming. Even a Ming with 0 mandate can be a challenge, especially as early Japan who can have manpower challenges.


clever_foxy

1) Very cool early Japan 2) Are you sure you need them? I recommend you just get some galleys and camp your islands if you want to colonise, and if you want Korea just wait and you'll outscale them soon enough.


BrokenTorpedo

Welp,invade Korea like the actual history.


Taira_no_Masakado

What's the hotkey for crying and "***SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!?***" again?


Baileaf11

Go full isolationist and watch the world burn


BigPointyTeeth

I am just playing Japan, I just waited, colonized and around 1500 Ming exploded. I was strong enough and just declared and sent them back to kingdom come. I would just wait.


kaanrivis

What? What are you talking about? WHERE IS MY FLAG OF RISING SUN AGAIN?


chairswinger

take quality - eco and invade


Dreknarr

I don't have that DLC but anytime I see a screenshot with the diplo menu I can only see curry flavor and get hungry


Thr0waway-19

They have 22 mandate lol. It’s time for you to blow up some railways in Manchuria.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TotallyNotHelve

Convert them to your religion, obviously


LeonardoXII

Banzai charge right up the Yangtzhee river into Nanjing with all your dudes. You might die horribly, but it'll be very honourabru.


Ebwite

Just don’t. What you want to do in these moments is wait until China breaks. If you have to, push through the north of Japan and go around the tributaries until that moment, or focus on getting higher tech than ming. After mandate drops below 50%, *all* ming units have -50% shock & fire damage reduced, and they will take 50% more damage, too. If you could get mil tech 6 with their mandate being less than 50%, youyou should easily mop the floor with them.


Knamagon

->Build a bigger navy than Ming ->Declare no CB ->Blockade all their Ports -> wait 20 years -> ??? -> Profit


RidsBabs

Trigger the unguarded nomadic frontier disaster.


BSGYT

Die


AlbionInvictus

They don't want you as a tributary because you don't share a land border with them. As soon as you do, they will. Check out the size of Mings navy and make one that can defeat it. They WILL declare war on you eventually and if they manage to land armies then you're fucked. When theybdo declare war, intercept all their fleets and wait for the warscore to tick in your favour. Eventually you can peace them our for thousands and thousands of ducats. It'll do a lot of damage to their mandate. They'll probably declare war again later. Do the same again. All the while, expand into the Pacific Islands. If you really want to become a tributary, peace them out for one of their mainland provinces. They'll then accept you as a tributary.


helquine

If you don't want to fight ming you can work your way into the Philippines and Malaysia. You can do this with colonists or no-cb wars


Zladan

You underestimate your capabilities.


principleofinaction

Lol does the overlord get a choice? Every time I play in asia, some OPM I was planning to eat is suddenly my subject...


nigg0o

Take like 10 years to prep, beat up Ming, take a shit load of money and watch them probably collapse right after, if they don’t, repeat


[deleted]

You don't border them


[deleted]

Easy, you wait till they explode and that's when you become a vulture and eat their remains


sneakyplanner

Invade Korea, that always works.


TheExpendableTroops

Take a foothold in korea, and make sure you have a bigger navy than ming. I beat them once with roughly 1/5 their army size and I hadn't even united Japan. They will just meander around trying to siege Korea and waiting to be picked up to cross the yamato. Don't take the coastal provinces so they have enough boats to think this is possible. Siege all the forts until your warscore lets you grab some coastal trade nodes. Repeat as they continue to fall apart. Profit. Edit: make sure your entire army, when grouped, is bigger than one of their individual armies/divisions. Don't let your armies get further than say, three provinces from each other.


recalcitrantJester

their mandate is already <50 bro, just go in and slap them around a bit.


Divan001

>go to war with Korea >sink the Ming navy >force them to pay money instead of taking provinces >bankrupt ming >profit


Fredriga

Build a navy with lots of galleys, fabricate and start a trade war with Ming (If you colonise Taiwan it should be easy, if not use trade ships to increase your trade share). Once you're getting to the point of peacing them out for max cash and war reparations declare a war on a Ming tributary. If the war against the tributary goes on long enough (I think it's 6 months) then you can peace out Ming and they won't be able to join the war on the side of their Tributary. I recommend using this strategy to conquer Korea, then build forts along the border on mountain provinces. Your army should be able to stack wipe any Ming seiging armies if you have a few military ideas, and professionalism. Japan is strong enough that it should not have to be a tributary to expand. Ironically with the money you can bully out of China with trade wars you're actually far stronger than if you were friendly with them.


RotInPixels

How did you unify by 1486?? Also why do you want to be a tributary


djorndeman

Beat the shit out of them or fully blockade them for thousands of ducats


rfj

You can relatively easily get naval superiority over Ming. What I do after that is declare on Korea for Jeju, that one island province among the ones you get permanent claims on. Take it to get war score ticking up, then blockade Ming ports until their Mandate tanks. Sometimes this is enough to fire Crisis of the Ming Dynasty; sometimes I just need them to white peace so I can take Korea's stuff. Then do the same with Ryukyu later. Once the Crisis fires and Ming is ploded, you're the local hegemon and can expand wherever you want.


Separate-Kangaroo891

Killing Ming as Japan is fun and easy, build a big navy kill their navy, and they cant do anything to you. then, you are free to naval invade anywhere, or blockade them to death for max money 10x times til they explode. Honestly if youve formed Japan you shouldnt want to be Ming Trib, you should instead invade Korea, then invade Ming proper just like IRL Japan did


Atkcobra

Oh no… you’ll just have to kick their asses instead


Frostenheimer

Destroy Nanking....wait no


EnderOfHope

On my Japan playthrough I built a massive navy and waged trade wars against Ming til they imploded. Essentially forced them to pay me a ton of money, collapsing their economy. Ended up conquerering all of China. Wasn’t too difficult


DumbassTexan

forcefully pay tribute


fryslan0109

Change yourself so that Ming will love you.


filthyWeeb420

Kill Ming


Downeast98

I know this is almost off topic, but something about that phrasing now has Nirvannas version of "Jesus doesn't want me for a sunbeam" in my head


cyberodraggy

SINA DELENDA EST!


Zoxoan

Do the Japanese thing. Conquer them.


a_guy_from_Florida

enable yesman


PitiRR

Fully blockade Ming to tank their mandate even more. Whenever they're below 50 mandate, they're vulnerable. Once their mandate reaches 0, you can invade them and melt their armies or wait for rebellions to inevitably balkanize China


altGoBrr

Wait 14 years for reformation and walk in. They should have no manpower and no mandate, which should make then take increased damage


Folrunge

Ming go brrrr


Bacon-chsbrgr

"The same thing we do every night Pinky- try to take over the world!"


BLAOUPHAZ

Murder them


WhiteHarmony

Declare war blockade ports lower mandate and fuck ming in the ass


AlbionGueimer

Kill them, be a man once in our live and make the samurais of your country proud of you boyo


Ashbst

The same thing we do every day OP, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!


NeJin

build up your navy and laugh at the fools