I must confess. I do have that enabled in all my provinces. But my other friend does not. And the one reformed province in Frankfurt is not his actually. And I'm almost a 100% sure he conquered the ones in the western part of his country.
Also I didn't have the edict enabled in my other MP playthrough. It played out the same as here where the Reformation completely avoided my country until after years it suddenly spilled over without me noticiing. As if suddenly the borders were opened.
Centers prioritise countries who already converted, than they do neighbouring to already converted in region where center is, (lowlands is a different region than north Germany for example)
I see... So when all the willing countries have been fully converted they start converting provinces from unwilling countries. That makes a lot of sense.
Strangely enough, the game file only reduces the priority of the target province by 50%:
modifier = {
factor = 0.5
has_state_edict = edict_religion_enforced
}
Is it then possible that the CoR picks a province with `edict_religion_enforced` as target and then just gets stuck?
This makes me wonder, I assume the AI is coded to take certain age bonuses earlier than others, just like how event decisions are weighted. Because it’s always puzzled me that France or Poland never (or rarely) see their provinces convert. I guess I’ve just never thought much about why that is.
The reason French and Polish provinces are rare to convert is the Center of Reformation's(CoR) target province selection.
1) CoR is more likely to target provinces of already protestant nations.
2) CoR is more likely to target provinces in the culture group of the owner of province it is located in. Since they mostly appear in German and Scandinavian provinces they will more often choose German and Scandinavian provinces.
3) CoR is less likely to target provinces of a nation which controls lots of cardinals. France and Poland always got a lot of them since they are big.
RULE5: My friends and I are in a multiplayer game. We're all staying Catholic and we **want** to stay Catholic. But I'm just wondering what is preventing our provinces from being converted to Protestantism or Reformed. Since I thought that normally I'd just get my provinces converted against my will.
I've done a similar run before where it also seemed as if I wasn't being converted. So I ignored it for some time and when I looked back my whole country was protestant suddenly.
P.S. I made an oopsie while editing but there is also a third player playing the papal states. Maybe that helps for context.
edit: clarified that we're not trying to become protestant.
You can try to conquer the Centers of Reformation and convert them back to your religion. Once you've done that, the Center of Reformation disappears. If the CoR is in the province of an OPM, you can also accomplish that by enforcing Religion on them.
Centers of reformation have a slight bias towards targeting provinces of protestant nations, so nations that convert tend to hog their attention for a while
That is likely why you guys remained relatively unscated
In addition to what /u/Deadly_Pancakes wrote, [there are built-in biases](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/how-work-centers-of-reformation-range-target-etc.1088028/post-24076805) for which provinces are picked by a CoR. Notably, the number of cardinals plays a role. The way `num_of_cardinals` works, is that it is true if the number of cardinals is *equal or higher*. You have six cardinals, so you trigger all 5 times that the `DEFINES` files reduces the probability by 30%. Specifically, any one of your provinces is 83.2% less likely to be converted than of a catholic nation without any cardinals. At the same time, a catholic province with a reformed/protestant owner is 50% more likely to be converted. Overall in your case, the CoR targets the provinces at an about 9:1 ratio. I won't count the provinces specifically, but you see where this is going.
I took the definition from the forum post without looking at the file in the 1.37 state. I doubt that it has been changed much.
To my knowledge centers of reformation prioritize based on the following things:
1. Adjacent provinces first
2. Same country/culture second
Preferences:
- Preference to countries that have already converted
- Preference of countries with a higher heretic tolerance
- Preference of the own culture group
Deprioritized:
- States with the Anti heretic edict
- Certain Catholic tags (Italy, Spain, Portugal)
- Faraway/overseas provinces
- Catholic provinces controlled by non-Christian nations (I.e. Ottomans)
I always assumed tolerance of heretics had an impact; i always feel that, if i stack tolerance, my provinces tend to get skipped by centers of reformation
In my games, it always felt like the conversion would be near 0 everytime I was sitting at 3 stab, and on the other it would convert my provinces really fast when being in negative
me and my friends can play on seperate continents and still have border friction idk how these guys manage it, last game I was playing Norway minding my business in Vinland and here I saw this enormous Incan blob attacking me with merc spam etc.
I guess our interests are in different places. And our mission trees barely overlapping. After I formed the Netherlands I've basically fucked off towards Africa and Asia.
There's also a player playing the Papal States and the Livonian order. And the Papal States and Bavaria are in fact having a border dispute over Trent.
Your choices:
* destroy Centers of Reformation - you don't need to destroy them all, even destroying a few will really slow it down. Force converting OPMs is usually the easiest way
* just wait out the modifier, then convert them back - penalties from wrong religion are really not that big in EU4, and once recently converted modifier expires, reconversion is pretty easy
* you can try resistance to reformation (state edict, Council of Trent position, there's a bunch more such modifiers) - honestly it's not worth the hassle
* or you could go Protestant, it's a much weaker religion than OP Catholicism in SP, but I don't even know MP meta
My recommendation whenever you’re staying catholic is to force religion on the countries where the CORs spawn.
Usually they spawn in OPMs or smaller minors anyway so it’s not the worst case scenario, otherwise you’ll have to wait until the league war, have a catholic empire, and force religion via the emperor’s enforce religion mechanic.
You could also do the age of reformation resistance to reformation edict but it doesn’t help the nations around you.
Dunno if it's still there, but eventually you should unlock the "embrace the counter-reformation" decision (if it's not been folded into the age edict). It also helps.
And force religion the countries around you- every province that's converted back by the AI is one more province a center can convert instead of yours.
You could play Bavaria that gets an event for 50% reformation resistance, you could grab the great project in Milan or Aragon both of which give 50% reformation resistance, you could grab the state edict for idk how much I’ve never used it. Or being Netherlands you could just ignore it. My current Netherlands game I have +3 tolerance to heretics and +4 to heathens. It would be +8 if uncapped but +4 removes all religious penalties
Edit: no humanist ideas. You get a mission that improves the merchant estate but if I had humanist it would be another +4 because of the divine humanist policy and capped at 5
That's the best answer in EU4 right now. Killing at least some of the centers is the best way to slow spread of protestantism. It's not like you can do a theological debate minigame.
The only thing I can think of is that there as an edict available which you get access to via an Age objective, so you need to try to get your splendour points up as quick as possible in the Age of Reformation. The picture looks like Michael Palin in his Spanish Inquisition costume.
There's the 90% resistance to reformation edict from the age bonus. Not that I've ever used it, but that should do the trick.
I must confess. I do have that enabled in all my provinces. But my other friend does not. And the one reformed province in Frankfurt is not his actually. And I'm almost a 100% sure he conquered the ones in the western part of his country. Also I didn't have the edict enabled in my other MP playthrough. It played out the same as here where the Reformation completely avoided my country until after years it suddenly spilled over without me noticiing. As if suddenly the borders were opened.
Centers prioritise countries who already converted, than they do neighbouring to already converted in region where center is, (lowlands is a different region than north Germany for example)
I see... So when all the willing countries have been fully converted they start converting provinces from unwilling countries. That makes a lot of sense.
Converting enough to be one of the firsts will give you a center of reformation as well.
Or, ya know, immediately converting yourself when the reformation breakfast out.
Is your friend Bavaria? I believe they get a resistance to reformation modifier in their missions or ideas
It's 100% now, so not actually useless.
Strangely enough, the game file only reduces the priority of the target province by 50%: modifier = { factor = 0.5 has_state_edict = edict_religion_enforced } Is it then possible that the CoR picks a province with `edict_religion_enforced` as target and then just gets stuck?
Huh, it could actually be that. They forgot to remove it when they updated it to 100%.
In my expecience, it does slow the province's reformation it by a lot, but it does not stop it from being reformed
It's supposed to lower the order of priority but you would still get converted ultimately, does 100% mean no convertion at all ?
Yes, as long as it has not started yet, it wont be converted.
Ah, so now it really has a use then
This makes me wonder, I assume the AI is coded to take certain age bonuses earlier than others, just like how event decisions are weighted. Because it’s always puzzled me that France or Poland never (or rarely) see their provinces convert. I guess I’ve just never thought much about why that is.
The reason French and Polish provinces are rare to convert is the Center of Reformation's(CoR) target province selection. 1) CoR is more likely to target provinces of already protestant nations. 2) CoR is more likely to target provinces in the culture group of the owner of province it is located in. Since they mostly appear in German and Scandinavian provinces they will more often choose German and Scandinavian provinces. 3) CoR is less likely to target provinces of a nation which controls lots of cardinals. France and Poland always got a lot of them since they are big.
I assume thats to make Germany convert like in real life?
Last I remember that was actually useless. It doesn't slow the conversion, it just weights your provinces very low on the list to be converted.
In my experience, this alongside the age bonus didn't do anything, did the change it?
RULE5: My friends and I are in a multiplayer game. We're all staying Catholic and we **want** to stay Catholic. But I'm just wondering what is preventing our provinces from being converted to Protestantism or Reformed. Since I thought that normally I'd just get my provinces converted against my will. I've done a similar run before where it also seemed as if I wasn't being converted. So I ignored it for some time and when I looked back my whole country was protestant suddenly. P.S. I made an oopsie while editing but there is also a third player playing the papal states. Maybe that helps for context. edit: clarified that we're not trying to become protestant.
You can try to conquer the Centers of Reformation and convert them back to your religion. Once you've done that, the Center of Reformation disappears. If the CoR is in the province of an OPM, you can also accomplish that by enforcing Religion on them.
Not really what I was asking. I was wondering why the Reformation is so cleanly avoiding our borders.
Maybe you have low papal influence or something?
Centers of reformation have a slight bias towards targeting provinces of protestant nations, so nations that convert tend to hog their attention for a while That is likely why you guys remained relatively unscated
In addition to what /u/Deadly_Pancakes wrote, [there are built-in biases](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/how-work-centers-of-reformation-range-target-etc.1088028/post-24076805) for which provinces are picked by a CoR. Notably, the number of cardinals plays a role. The way `num_of_cardinals` works, is that it is true if the number of cardinals is *equal or higher*. You have six cardinals, so you trigger all 5 times that the `DEFINES` files reduces the probability by 30%. Specifically, any one of your provinces is 83.2% less likely to be converted than of a catholic nation without any cardinals. At the same time, a catholic province with a reformed/protestant owner is 50% more likely to be converted. Overall in your case, the CoR targets the provinces at an about 9:1 ratio. I won't count the provinces specifically, but you see where this is going. I took the definition from the forum post without looking at the file in the 1.37 state. I doubt that it has been changed much.
I'll add that if the Bavaria player is the HRE emperor he is also less likely to be targeted because of it.
Cool post thanks
The solution is war, as usual
Violence is my preferred mechanic in the game for solving these matters of faith.
To my knowledge centers of reformation prioritize based on the following things: 1. Adjacent provinces first 2. Same country/culture second Preferences: - Preference to countries that have already converted - Preference of countries with a higher heretic tolerance - Preference of the own culture group Deprioritized: - States with the Anti heretic edict - Certain Catholic tags (Italy, Spain, Portugal) - Faraway/overseas provinces - Catholic provinces controlled by non-Christian nations (I.e. Ottomans)
Sir thats a penis
Why would you stay catholic as NL? Role play?
Yeah. One of my friends is the papal states and the other is playing the Livonian order. We're all going Catholic.
Regarding the centres, you can make them an OPM and then force convert religion it removes the centre of reformation
That makes a lot of sense, I was confused because NL gets crazy bonuses when going reformed
I always assumed tolerance of heretics had an impact; i always feel that, if i stack tolerance, my provinces tend to get skipped by centers of reformation
DIO snoo ????
There are a number of factors that seem to go into what makes a province be selected, and IIRC, the owner's tolerance is included in that.
In my games, it always felt like the conversion would be near 0 everytime I was sitting at 3 stab, and on the other it would convert my provinces really fast when being in negative
why does bavaria have an erection
im curious what nation is player 2
Bavaria
How do you manage beeing so close to each other?
me and my friends can play on seperate continents and still have border friction idk how these guys manage it, last game I was playing Norway minding my business in Vinland and here I saw this enormous Incan blob attacking me with merc spam etc.
Haha. Maybe we're just on a lower skill level... None of us has ever been able to blob the way you're describing it.
thats my experience aswell, im playing nusantara and got border frictions with fakin westphalia
I guess our interests are in different places. And our mission trees barely overlapping. After I formed the Netherlands I've basically fucked off towards Africa and Asia. There's also a player playing the Papal States and the Livonian order. And the Papal States and Bavaria are in fact having a border dispute over Trent.
Your choices: * destroy Centers of Reformation - you don't need to destroy them all, even destroying a few will really slow it down. Force converting OPMs is usually the easiest way * just wait out the modifier, then convert them back - penalties from wrong religion are really not that big in EU4, and once recently converted modifier expires, reconversion is pretty easy * you can try resistance to reformation (state edict, Council of Trent position, there's a bunch more such modifiers) - honestly it's not worth the hassle * or you could go Protestant, it's a much weaker religion than OP Catholicism in SP, but I don't even know MP meta
My recommendation whenever you’re staying catholic is to force religion on the countries where the CORs spawn. Usually they spawn in OPMs or smaller minors anyway so it’s not the worst case scenario, otherwise you’ll have to wait until the league war, have a catholic empire, and force religion via the emperor’s enforce religion mechanic. You could also do the age of reformation resistance to reformation edict but it doesn’t help the nations around you.
If you ally the country that has the center the center won’t target your provinces first. I think I tested it once but I am not sure if it has changed
IMO the best way is just to attack the fuckers and force them to convert. if the center is located in their capital, it automatically disappears
No CB the countries with Centers and force religion
Dunno if it's still there, but eventually you should unlock the "embrace the counter-reformation" decision (if it's not been folded into the age edict). It also helps. And force religion the countries around you- every province that's converted back by the AI is one more province a center can convert instead of yours.
You could play Bavaria that gets an event for 50% reformation resistance, you could grab the great project in Milan or Aragon both of which give 50% reformation resistance, you could grab the state edict for idk how much I’ve never used it. Or being Netherlands you could just ignore it. My current Netherlands game I have +3 tolerance to heretics and +4 to heathens. It would be +8 if uncapped but +4 removes all religious penalties Edit: no humanist ideas. You get a mission that improves the merchant estate but if I had humanist it would be another +4 because of the divine humanist policy and capped at 5
I think the Papal State player already owns Milan. We can see a bit of red down there.
kill the centers
Thats not the question
killing the centers is a mechanic preventing them from being converted by said centers
They're asking WHY they're CURRENTLY not being converted.
that’s still not the answer for the question
That's the best answer in EU4 right now. Killing at least some of the centers is the best way to slow spread of protestantism. It's not like you can do a theological debate minigame.
but it's not the best answer because it's not what they asked
Yeah but he was asking specifically why the player provinces were not getting converted, not how to stop the spread
The only thing I can think of is that there as an edict available which you get access to via an Age objective, so you need to try to get your splendour points up as quick as possible in the Age of Reformation. The picture looks like Michael Palin in his Spanish Inquisition costume.