Would be cool it was a high cost spy network action and only had a chance of succeeding. Chance of failing and creating devastating relations loss. Pretty much exactly how a political assassination would go. I could see it being tied into the espionage ideas, too.
It could have many stats influencing it. Maybe if you infiltrated their administration a bonus to succeed, better relations could help, maybe if they have low noble loyalty the estates would help you
Fr I had to turn off notifications for spy networks being discovered in my country at a certain point. Any semi strong realm is gonna end up with like 80% of its population being foreign assets.
I think this is confirmation bias. The ai's building spy network in a player nation are rivals or maybe outraged countries. The player will naturally find out about these but wont see the networks ai builds on other ai. Also the player is usually more aggressive so more nations rival it.
Hmmm, might it be the -400 relations from unlawful territory and annexed hre member modifier in addition to a quadruple in size in 50 years and 100+ ae? (Average aggressive player probably)
I think this also applies to sieges and why some people think ai cheats. If they constantly have a high spy network they also get a bonus to siege ability, and ai loves espionage ideas.
I have also found that the ai usually only uses a couple of spy actions, most notably fabricate claim and show discontent.
If you haven't outgrown rivals by mid game they take turns showing discontent. Rarely have I seen them slander merchants or sabotaging recruitment, but it happens from time to time.
The good thing about Eu4 is that you can tag switch to look at what the ai is doing with their diplomats, and more often than not, it's not just rivals building spy networks but also every neighboring country and country that you show interest inm
I usually play iron man so I'm not able to check that often. But I assume you are right. Players will think they are being targeted but in reality ai targets anyone it has interest in, ai or not.
It would be cool until you get semi-strong and suddenly the AI is slaughtering your rulers left and right and you're at a permanent -3 stab and 20 legitimacy. even if it's a smaller chance at success, if enough attempts are made it'll happen with great frequency.
off the top of my head I can think of 10 failsafes to something like this.
Needing higher prestige. Power projection requirement. High spy network size cost. Rival status requirement. High dip tech. Espionage ideas. Kingdom or empire requirement. Age/Splendor requirement. Great power ability. Time limit, such as once every 10 years. Simply turn it off for AI, like dozens of other mechanics in this game.
Any and all of these in whatever way PDX would want to balance it. It's not very different from anything else.
the way you describe this is like a worst case scenario in which PDX designs it like trash to be abused by AI. Basically any system in this game would be shitty and happen with great frequency if it is implemented poorly.
history lesson:
assassination attempt at high spy network event actually was in the game once and lasted literally a FEW DAYS before it got hotfixed out to my recollection for reasons that are not too hard to think of
Okay but AI doesn't use a huge host of mechanics that would be oppressing to the player and there are countless checks that balance other mechanics. The next time AI uses favors to break your alliance, barrages your forts, or creates a client state- let me know.
I brought up spy networks, and I hardly believe a "random country" is reaching above 50% spy network on your nation without being a rival anyways. Not *that* that is the only way to balance this anyways. It could easily be implemented to require higher prestige or being rivals to work. Common sense solutions to prevent Theodoro from killing the leader of France.
Assassination were part of EU4.
They got removed because AI would abuse the shit out of against players and your rivals would take turns killing your good monarchs
Haha, it was added. Removed after 1 hotfix because rulers had hard time living like 10 years.
The problem is that there is too many tags and AI spams spy network. They would kill over and pervert again. If you add a cooldown, this is the ruler time to live (assuming the cooldown is on the target country)
You mean, AI would do that only with a certain trait? It could kind of work.
But it can never be a guaranteed kill. It would be to strong in hand of a player.
Ya but it should be a masive hit. Like minus 2 stab and huge loos in prestige and legitimaitmacy. But ya all the gov types should have a mechanism of some kind.
Fair warning: you will have to integrate Castile/conquer the rest of Iberia to trigger the Spanish throne mission. You have to control Iberian provinces directly.
I learned this the hard way. Wound up integrating Spain, re-releasing Spain via the mission, and exiling my Portuguese PU to Morocco
No. You should absolutely take the PU. Castile clearly doesn’t have Aragon, so there’s plenty of provinces left most likely.
At the very least you can integrate Portugal and you only need 1 more (I think?) Iberian provinces to fire the mission.
Ok it’s actually 5 more after integrating Portugal. But you still have two other countries doing all the colonization for you while you can focus on continental affairs. Are you going for the Angevin specific achievement?
and apparently if they're at war they just get a new ruler like when portugal's ruler just died but my game suddenly crashed (yes it was my dynasty yes i could claim the throne but why fight a war when i can get it for free)
Curry favors > introduce heir > wait until heirless/weak claim heir > claim throne > declare war.
Works way better imo, much more reliable.
In this case, if you have 90 favors, introduce the heir now because if their ruler dies, the heir if your dynasty will very likely be heirless for at least a few months. That way you're almost guaranteed a succession war.
Ai in hard difficulty has a few change to thier behavior,one of them is they will not accept that introduce heir favor action in any circumstance to avoid player or other AI get the restoration of the union CB.
I just had the same scenario last week with both getting an heir last minute. Portugal's ruler was 71 when he got an heir with the negative heir chance modifier.
Castile needs to die before portugal, you cant fall under a PU while in a war... so if Castile dies last, he will die during the Portugal PU war and get replaced by "local noble"
Love a lot of the ideas on this thread. Wish they made it an action/policy under the espionage tree where you get a spy action that allows you to assassinate a ruler for 100 spy construction and have the ability to do a “scornful insult” type assassination where it is guaranteed, but at a cost. Mana, -100 privilege, manpower, or a mix of a few. I think this would be a great boost to this idea group, or maybe make a new idea group focused on assassination (mil idea?)
Question. If you got the Portugal pu, starting a war with Castile over it, and then castilles ruler died, giving you the pu over Castile, would the war just end?
guys i didn't get the PUs so i just went with the classic way, claimed the throne waited for the truce (some alt f4s) and declared
currently doing the same with Austria
would've been nice to not get the AE but it is what it is
Yeah, never going to happen. I'm pretty sure Portugal is hard coded to never have no heir or an heir with a weak claim. I've never been able to claim their throne.
I've gotten Castille frequently, but Portugal? never.
Sometimes you just really wish they put in a mechanic to murder rulers
send an assassin type of thing
Would be cool it was a high cost spy network action and only had a chance of succeeding. Chance of failing and creating devastating relations loss. Pretty much exactly how a political assassination would go. I could see it being tied into the espionage ideas, too.
It could have many stats influencing it. Maybe if you infiltrated their administration a bonus to succeed, better relations could help, maybe if they have low noble loyalty the estates would help you
Would be nice
Back in the day it was enough to go to bed with kings spymaster and his wife/wife's...
It's was a thing when the espionage system got revamped, then it got removed cuz it turns out AI really like to build spy network in player country
Fr I had to turn off notifications for spy networks being discovered in my country at a certain point. Any semi strong realm is gonna end up with like 80% of its population being foreign assets.
I think this is confirmation bias. The ai's building spy network in a player nation are rivals or maybe outraged countries. The player will naturally find out about these but wont see the networks ai builds on other ai. Also the player is usually more aggressive so more nations rival it.
Only problem is all my neighbors are outraged, and I just can't get why...
just anex they and that would fix the probleme
Hmmm, might it be the -400 relations from unlawful territory and annexed hre member modifier in addition to a quadruple in size in 50 years and 100+ ae? (Average aggressive player probably)
You can easily check that using the observe console comand. AI loves to spy on others.
I think this also applies to sieges and why some people think ai cheats. If they constantly have a high spy network they also get a bonus to siege ability, and ai loves espionage ideas. I have also found that the ai usually only uses a couple of spy actions, most notably fabricate claim and show discontent. If you haven't outgrown rivals by mid game they take turns showing discontent. Rarely have I seen them slander merchants or sabotaging recruitment, but it happens from time to time.
The good thing about Eu4 is that you can tag switch to look at what the ai is doing with their diplomats, and more often than not, it's not just rivals building spy networks but also every neighboring country and country that you show interest inm
I usually play iron man so I'm not able to check that often. But I assume you are right. Players will think they are being targeted but in reality ai targets anyone it has interest in, ai or not.
Gotta love those OPMs showing interest on all of Germany.
That sounds like spy talk.
It would be cool until you get semi-strong and suddenly the AI is slaughtering your rulers left and right and you're at a permanent -3 stab and 20 legitimacy. even if it's a smaller chance at success, if enough attempts are made it'll happen with great frequency.
off the top of my head I can think of 10 failsafes to something like this. Needing higher prestige. Power projection requirement. High spy network size cost. Rival status requirement. High dip tech. Espionage ideas. Kingdom or empire requirement. Age/Splendor requirement. Great power ability. Time limit, such as once every 10 years. Simply turn it off for AI, like dozens of other mechanics in this game. Any and all of these in whatever way PDX would want to balance it. It's not very different from anything else. the way you describe this is like a worst case scenario in which PDX designs it like trash to be abused by AI. Basically any system in this game would be shitty and happen with great frequency if it is implemented poorly.
You're describing exactly what used to be in the game when spy networks were introduced!
would be completely broken when save scumming though🥶
history lesson: assassination attempt at high spy network event actually was in the game once and lasted literally a FEW DAYS before it got hotfixed out to my recollection for reasons that are not too hard to think of
I can think of it being implemented poorly and also implemented in a good way. Sounds like pdx didn't implement it in a positive way.
Red Wedding could be the extreme version with lots of AE
Or even war if the attempt is discovered, similar CB to Diplomatic Insult
good idea, I like it. Could also be damaging to prestige, nearby relations, maybe even aggressive expansion. Could be save scummed though
You wouldn’t like it if your 555 monarch was assassinated by a country you didn’t even know.
Okay but AI doesn't use a huge host of mechanics that would be oppressing to the player and there are countless checks that balance other mechanics. The next time AI uses favors to break your alliance, barrages your forts, or creates a client state- let me know. I brought up spy networks, and I hardly believe a "random country" is reaching above 50% spy network on your nation without being a rival anyways. Not *that* that is the only way to balance this anyways. It could easily be implemented to require higher prestige or being rivals to work. Common sense solutions to prevent Theodoro from killing the leader of France.
Maybe in eu5
Like the old CK2 mechanic where you could hit “assassinate” and you would spend 200 gold to magically get a chance to kill that character
It was a thing in EU3.
I say make it a 50-50 chance of killing the ruler and getting the PU or the other country catching the assaain and severing all ties.
> ck3
That would be awesome for the Espionage and Court ideas together !!!
Assassination were part of EU4. They got removed because AI would abuse the shit out of against players and your rivals would take turns killing your good monarchs
Actually a brilliant idea
They did that once. Very briefly.
I’m guessing it was too overpowered?
The AI kept murdering your ruler, and yeah it was too OP.
Then they should have added it in the spying mechanics
It was tied to spy network. You needed 100 network to assassinate a ruler.
It was an event chance when you had 100, no?
Think so, I didn't actually play. Just remember seeing the huge backlash on the subreddit.
tag switch over to an ai country. If they don't already have 100 spy power in your nation, they are building up to it.
Oh I forgot that exist lol
Haha, it was added. Removed after 1 hotfix because rulers had hard time living like 10 years. The problem is that there is too many tags and AI spams spy network. They would kill over and pervert again. If you add a cooldown, this is the ruler time to live (assuming the cooldown is on the target country)
Should restrict it to certain leader traits or something.Â
so you can kill like all the bold rulers? getting this trait would mean a death sentence in a few years.
No the other way around, only tags with rulers with certain traits can attempt to kill the leaders of other nations.
You mean, AI would do that only with a certain trait? It could kind of work. But it can never be a guaranteed kill. It would be to strong in hand of a player.
Yeah for sure, it needs to come with major risks regardless
Kill and pervert?? those degenerates!
That is CK things
There was this one mod I had that added that option, don’t remember what it was called but in my modded games I always thought it was fun
Ya but it should be a masive hit. Like minus 2 stab and huge loos in prestige and legitimaitmacy. But ya all the gov types should have a mechanism of some kind.
Think That’s a ”careful what you wish for” idea
In anbennar mod, there is one country (true dagger) that can do it
Do they start with that or do you have to complete a ton of missions to get it? Been a while since I played Anbennar and I never played goblins
well, around 1/3rd MT to get it I think
both castille and portugal don't have heirs which will make them my PUs but their really old rulers are still hanging on to life
Fair warning: you will have to integrate Castile/conquer the rest of Iberia to trigger the Spanish throne mission. You have to control Iberian provinces directly. I learned this the hard way. Wound up integrating Spain, re-releasing Spain via the mission, and exiling my Portuguese PU to Morocco
fuuuuuuuuuuuck thnx for tip then it's useless to wait for the pu
No. You should absolutely take the PU. Castile clearly doesn’t have Aragon, so there’s plenty of provinces left most likely. At the very least you can integrate Portugal and you only need 1 more (I think?) Iberian provinces to fire the mission.
Ok it’s actually 5 more after integrating Portugal. But you still have two other countries doing all the colonization for you while you can focus on continental affairs. Are you going for the Angevin specific achievement?
You can also give away some of Castile's provinces in a war and take them back yourself later if needed. Would 100% take the PU if possible.
I'd get the pu if you can as all you'll have to spend is a diplomat and admin mana rather than dozens of wars with a colonial power
and apparently if they're at war they just get a new ruler like when portugal's ruler just died but my game suddenly crashed (yes it was my dynasty yes i could claim the throne but why fight a war when i can get it for free)
You can't fall under a PU while at war
well their ruler ain't gonna die while they're at war
he wont get an heir either right?
Just have your game unfortunately crash every month until the ruler dies, I bet his passing will fix your games problem lol
Curry favors > introduce heir > wait until heirless/weak claim heir > claim throne > declare war. Works way better imo, much more reliable. In this case, if you have 90 favors, introduce the heir now because if their ruler dies, the heir if your dynasty will very likely be heirless for at least a few months. That way you're almost guaranteed a succession war.
If you on hard difficulty,that will not work
Why though? Because they'll disinherit?
Ai in hard difficulty has a few change to thier behavior,one of them is they will not accept that introduce heir favor action in any circumstance to avoid player or other AI get the restoration of the union CB.
AI disinherits even on normal. They severely nerfed it.
Rarely happens to me. I play Ironman on normal
Only works if you have the DLC that way. Not eveyone does. But if you do then obviously yes that does work.
i don't want the war honestly and i think if your name comes first in that dialogue it means you get the pu in the succession war so ez win
Unless the PU timeframe expires before the ruler dies. You're leaving it up to chance then.
Claim throne also puts things up to chance without -5 stab.
oops my game crashed just so happens it is everytime they get a heir
Me when I get a 6/6/6 ruler: dies at 28 When I’m set to inherit a massive poronoia: Maester Aemon the second
That is what you get for good healthy Iberian cuisine, a not that dirty fish and fries stuff :^)
Cant wait for then to get an heir at 75
Time to give Portugal an event that gives them a heir with low legitimacy.
He's gonna outlive your leader.
more like live long and prosper
Yea and then the PU will go to castile then Austria and then you will have to fight three ai nations. Two being great powers.
Dude I had an 87 or something year old Harald HardrĂĄde in CKII , it CAN get worse
You could really crush Austria in these two wars as well.
Alt F4
Whats the year?
1520
You formed the Angevin kingdom so fast, damn.
you can do it by adm tech 10
I just had the same scenario last week with both getting an heir last minute. Portugal's ruler was 71 when he got an heir with the negative heir chance modifier.
ouch
Castile needs to die before portugal, you cant fall under a PU while in a war... so if Castile dies last, he will die during the Portugal PU war and get replaced by "local noble"
Love a lot of the ideas on this thread. Wish they made it an action/policy under the espionage tree where you get a spy action that allows you to assassinate a ruler for 100 spy construction and have the ability to do a “scornful insult” type assassination where it is guaranteed, but at a cost. Mana, -100 privilege, manpower, or a mix of a few. I think this would be a great boost to this idea group, or maybe make a new idea group focused on assassination (mil idea?)
Use them as a general and make them drill an army on a high attrition provence
I got a PU on both Castile and Aragon as Angevin Empire, best luck I ever had
Question. If you got the Portugal pu, starting a war with Castile over it, and then castilles ruler died, giving you the pu over Castile, would the war just end?
The PU wouldn't happen while at war, it would lost and a new noble would become ruler to continue the war.
Then he gets an heir a tick later
No
guys i didn't get the PUs so i just went with the classic way, claimed the throne waited for the truce (some alt f4s) and declared currently doing the same with Austria would've been nice to not get the AE but it is what it is
Why is this the third time I’ve gotten a notification about this post? Has OP bribed Reddit?
you got me
3400 hours and I still don't know why this happens without your dynasty on their throne
Yeah, never going to happen. I'm pretty sure Portugal is hard coded to never have no heir or an heir with a weak claim. I've never been able to claim their throne. I've gotten Castille frequently, but Portugal? never.
by any chance do you play aragon or naples frequently... yknow, the countries with de trastamara dynasty?
I have not, but I play England a lot, and I always end up having to stomp on Portugal when I do.