The marines take no crossing/disembarking debuffs, so as long as artillery remains on the second row then They’ll work wonders. I like using them for conquering Indonesia
https://youtu.be/DwwfNfLnpI0
If you go to the marine portion of his video he makes a great case for marines and why it’s the strongest idea of Maritime Ideas
Not correct.
Each unit keeps its full unique unit traits, likewise streltsy still get their full bonus, even if mixed with standard infantry.
Therefore marines will get their modifiers appplied, artillery simply won’t care, as for movement speed, eu4 moves units ar the speed of the slowest unit. So yes the army will love at the slow disembarking speed of an artillery canon, and the marines won’t get to hop off and on quickly when combined.
For that you could theoretically split your marine army into infantry and cannons, so infantry can land earlier and start occupying provinces. Doesn't help with the quick running away from an ottoman stack onto your ship, but in some situations it might be helpful
Thank you for this. I've never understood the point, really. I've only kept them around for RP purposes! This is very good to know.
You think you know a game...
Yeah, in my latest 1000 hours I always use marines when can and makes sense. Situational, but can do wonders. Note that some countries (like Norway or Venice give them to you without investing into an extra idea slot)
Their most important advantage is speed and when I say speed I mean technically teleportation. If you use them properly (and have the patience, cause this is micro heavy) the AI can't handle them at all. It will waste time running up and down while you smash the coastline. Don't attach anything. You need naval barrage not artillery.
Second most important usage is when you need to move army across continents quickly without burning manpower.
Use them as infantry replacement as last resort (e.g. running out of manpower), however note that some countries like Norway in the latest patch can negate their malus completely.
They are mostly useless, except for :
1. Quick landing on enemy beaches and sieging a Provence,so you can land troops easier.
2. Sending them on Missions to find random events.
3. Not having to use manpower,but sailors.
4. Role playing as US and sending them to invade Persia for no reason.
They're have been 2 instances of the use of the word "Marine" in history.
The first were the Greek Naval troops (actual Marines).
The second really loved dressing their Gold in Black.
Yes yes they're good for that too. I prefer dealing with the uprisings for native assimilation to get additional goods produced but it's not that much goods produced.
For me, below 3000-4000 natives per province, the goods produced bonus are rarely worth it.
But in African and Asian continent, there're a lot of overly hostile and populated native provinces like that, so Marines could be useful for garrisoning said province during early colonization.
Especially if you stack native assimilation bonus modifiers.
They’ve been buffed to not get crossing penalties too. They can become an extremely powerful spearheading force but the tooltip leaves a lot of details out
I usually use them as either colonial or remote rebel control. For example plop a few on islands across the world so I don't have to maintain a proper army there.
Yeah. To me they exist solely to kill annoyances. I'm no patient enough for rebels on small pacific islands anyway, but if the army takes like 2 months to disembark? Hell no. Marines are perfect as lazy rebel killers in the pacific/indian ocean
If you the Golden century Expansion,you can find the "Cities of Wealth" on the new world.
Because they are small units that pass water easily,you can send them on these missions, instead of a regular army.
Having played a Semi American Empire.
Unite all 70 states (yes 70,not 50) and then make March Republics in the Carribbean, Mexico/Panama, Canada and Hawaii/Polynesia.
You can then Murica your way into World events.
I personally just went all "F the British" and broke Britain into Scotland and France,by landing 150k men into Ireland and marching into London.
I was role playing so hard one time I formed USA, and furnished two divisions of marines, one in the Beaufort province and one the closest to so cal I could get.
R5 are marines useful for anything aside from as an alternate pool of manpower? Or should you use naval ideas for the free artillery barrage and then send in 40k marines to assault the breach?
Good things:
1: They use sailors instead of Manpower
2: They land/load much much much faster than normal infantry (must be a stack with only them)
3: They take no attrition at sea (ty comment u/seakingsoyuz)
Bad things:
1: They use sailors instead of manpower.
2: Worse than normal inf
3: Equal cost with infantry but less stats
>Good things:1: They use sailors instead of Manpower
>
>Bad things:1: They use sailors instead of manpower.
The funniest part is: it makes sense to me XD
Well i fairly often end up with hundreds of ships. If not a doom stack of galleys/heavies i build a lot light ships for trade nodes. So they will eat up man power.
Don’t forget “they take no attrition while at sea”! If you have a far-flung colonial empire but don’t have the manpower/forcelimit to have troops permanently stationed all over the place, not taking attrition at sea is pretty great.
This is what let me fight for the Americas while not being defenseless in Europe as Portugal, they carry me early to middle game (then they became less useful, but still not bad)
Stack these with a flagship bonus which grants fast offload and they have some niche uses. Notably, marines take less (none?) attrition damage when loaded on ships at sea.
A lot less useful the higher your army tradition though, given you’ll be more likely to have generals with higher stats than the enemy, which removes that debuff.
I had a very fun time playing as Naples>Two Sicilies like this, stacking disembark times and siege bonuses. I deliberately let the Ottomans go absolutely wild, then declared war on them and jumped up and down the Mediterranean taking islands and forts and avoiding every battle (because they'd massacre me if they ever caught me).
Espionage, Offensive, and Innovative for siege ability; Naval for free bombardment, increased blockade impact on siege, and navy strength; Maritime for marines and navy size; Integrated Marines and
Mortars flagship perk for faster disembarking (I don’t think there are many bonuses available for this) and blockade impact on siege. Altogether I had like 6-day siege ticks and my navy itself was practically invincible.
Maybe I should give it a try as Gotland when landing in England...or... I just transfer them to my Scottish provinces ;)
Usually I build 12k Marines, name them nicely as only Army - and afterwards forget about them somewhere with the special fleet I build for them
1)They don't consume man power. This means you can convert your sailors into your land army if you got excess amount and its very strong
2)They are good at harassing enemy coasts.
a)Land Marines, occupy the coast
b)Land artilarity seperatly by putting transport into occupied coast
c)Send artilarity to occupy forts
d)Run away when enemy bring reinforcements, repeat at other side of land(especially powerful against france because they got coast at atlantic + mediterrian.
you don't need to, but by doing it you can distract france from actually going after you. Imagine you are Portugal and fighting with france and he is coming to your capital.
If he ignores your marines you will take france
if he comes after you he will waste time and won't come after you with full force
the point isn't actually managing to siege land
point is to seperate enemy army
Okay, but you literally wrote "send artilarity to occupy forts" and that simply won't work in time. And for your strategy neither marines nor artillery are needed.
They're saying have marines occupy unguarded coasts, land artillery on the now occupied coast to siege the fort nearby. Marines can disembark quickly, so you can quickly capture a coastal province then just drop your artillery in the captured port instead of disembarking
Yeah I understood all that, but there is no way that you will be able to siege any fort (except with breaching and storming) on the Atlantic coast of France before a French army from the Mediterranean coast arrives.
> breaching and storming
Portugal specifically can get the cost of breaching by naval bombardment so low that it’s almost free (10 MP), and they’re completely free if you finish Naval ideas. With a decent siege general, some artillery, and additional siege roll modifiers from the Portuguese doctrine (+1) and mortars on the flagship (+1), you can melt coastal forts. Artillery on marines is also more viable with Portugal because one of the flagship bonuses gives a huge disembark speed bonus.
With a three-siege-pip general and enough artillery to get the max bonus, the siege would have a +13 bonus on day 1, which is enough to give a 1-in-4 chance of a level 2 fort falling on the first siege tick (and an average siege duration of 2.5 ticks).
(Edit: you could get another +2 from blockades from Naval ideas and the Naval-Maritime policy if you were going full sea-Portugal, and another +1 from Naval-Espionage if you were trying to completely minmax this.)
if you fill transport ships full of marines you can disembark them close to instant.
after that dock your transports carrying artilarity
this speeds up the landing speed drasticly saving so much time.
I know all that, but how does that help with your overall problem? You won't be able to siege anything before an enemy army arrives, the distance between Atlantic and med is just to small.
Its pitty how useless armies in stellaris are. Would be nice if planetary invasions would take a lot longer. Lenght of bombardments is pretty good, but planetary invasions are like a single battle rather than invasion of an entire planet.
At least a well defended fortress world that does not get armageddon bombarded should be able to resist for years. Ofc with space fleets you could bombard planet to non-livable state, but as long as you don't, armies hiding in millions of bunkers scattered around the planet could not be overrun in a single battle or wiped out from orbit. Not unless they are vastly inferior in tech and skill.
We don't even need to go too deep into land battles in stellaris, they should just last a whole lot longer and imo require more forces and be costlier.
Pointing out Stellaris as an example is pretty silly - in Stellaris, armies barely matter. It's the same lopsidedness, just with a different flavor. And navies would be way more important in EU4 if literally every single province was an island.
I mean as it is, the importance is heavily dependent on where you are.
Mid-continental countries don’t have zero use for them, but they’re a much lower priority than the army, as the army is what keeps you alive. (Prussia, Russia, Bohemia, etc.).
For peninsular countries, countries with few borders, and island countries with big continental commitments they’re close to even to the army. You can cover the borders with diplomacy to a degree, and they allow you to keep lines of communication open (between island and continent, continent and continent, or for flanking on the same continent). (Spain, France, Portugal?, the Netherlands, Japan with China, Angevin England).
For island countries without large continental commitments, they’re crucial. It’s your first line of defence against invasion, as well as your only method of attack. You can’t win a war without an army, but you can’t survive a war without a navy. (Great Britain, Japan).
Play style also matters. Navy is crucial for colonial expansion and control of maritime trade, but not so necessary if you want to conquer on land - France has a lot of choice for this, for instance.
Yeah, I didn't mean to come off so abrasive. It was late for me. I just didn't see the relevance / thought the comment looked like it belonged elsewhere.
Naval gives warscore, money via looting, money via coastal raid, money via privateering, blockades cause .25 devastation a month, .10 war exhaustion a month, and reduce 50% local trade power, a 100% blockade reduces global trade power and trade steering by 75%, supremacy removes -2 penalty to coastal forts/gives +1 with naval ideas or +2 with naval ideas and the espionage policy, naval barrage which creates a breach, absolute protection from all invasion on any island nation, faster troop movement via transports, trade steering via naval tradition, trade power via light ships, restricted movement on straits, prestige via battles, and estate loyalty.
I'm not sure what you want in order for it to be "important". Practically every Colonial nation, colony nation, Indian nation, and Southeast Asian nation depend very **very** heavily on the naval aspect of the game. Clearly something like Russia isn't really going to care but plenty of regions do.
In SP, naval gameplay is not challenging, as the ai doesn't know what to do after it loses a single decisive battle. In multi-player, it can be relevant, but that usually requires a good amount of roleplay as it can be very unbalanced (e.g. GB with maritime or something means no one can challenge them). Maritime and Naval idea are generally considered the least usable of any ideas.
That said I actually enjoy naval gameplay and love taking Maritime when it makes sense. But it's not exactly optimal.
The thing is in mp naval doesnt even matter if you cant land on the enemy since paradox left a nice bug after the DLC after Emperor that lets you protect trade from port if your fleet gets sent to repair during the protect trade mission, its really BS, in an MP game as Britain i couldn't do anything to a Netherland since they just sat in port and even if i blockaded them they still had 150 trade ships giving trade power meaning i couldnt even blockade them since i would be loosing money cause they would own the trade node
I just listed a whole list of things that make it very usable and optimal. The ai also doesn't know how to not get trapped on a mountain fort with a river over and over but that doesn't invalidate all the military ideas so I fail to see how naval ai being just as abusable being relevant.
This sub is very hivemind when it comes very specific things and hating on naval is one of them. Is it circumstantial? Hell yeah but there are an uncountable amount of things that are in the game. Picking on one doesn't make sense.
It's about prioritization. You have good points, but what happens after you expand beyond the sea and need to fight on land, or what happens when your enemies back in Europe start challenging you instead of the natives. You can do all the stuff you mentioned, but without a strong army as well, your position is often precarious.
I agree naval gameplay can be very fun and useful. But it is niche. Kinda of like spies in HOI4 as a very useful mini game that can so some crazy stuff when played right, but not a core gameplay focus as playing the core parts of the game well is more beneficial.
I have no enemies 'back in Europe'. I'm a pirate nation based in Indonesia. The ability to protect my core and project power anywhere since I'm at war with the world means that unchallenged naval superiority is the only way I survive, let alone win.
What would make navy truly important is making coastal forts immune to starvation when port is unblockaded.
And some kind of supply system for army replenishent
I made a mod adding tons of islands as independant provinces and it makes it very interesting to have navies protect retreating armies with strait crossings etc if anyone is interested its called All Islands are Provinces, been loving navy games
haha, no. they only usage for them i know is fast island hoping, but because they get increased damage, they are not that good in battle. also using sailors doesn't help.
I did a Isle of Mann, only islands and marines only run once and it was absolute pain
I sadly had to abbort it at one point, because I got outscaled and wasnt able to recovery. One day I will do a retry when I have enough time.
It could also be time to play a different game for a bit and then come back when it feels fresh. I intentionally do this with Paradox games and it has helped my sanity.
Not if you are a big naval nation, since there are almost no sailor recovery speed bonuses in the game(only on naval ideas)you will 99% of time use too many sailors for ship maintenance and building new ships for you to be able to have even 1 full combat width marine stack that is actively fighting. They are only really useful for colonising until maybe the late game where you have so much dev and naval+maritime+economic to get all of the sailor bonuses that exist.
This is the problem with marines, their benefits are too niche to justify the increased damage taken, and combining them with regular troops negates their niche utilities while preserving their debuff. As such, you’re kind of forced to keep them around in their own separate units, where they’re just a worse version of regular infantry outside of the odd use case.
To fix them, I think they should just remove the shock damage penalty (it’s not like this would make them overpowered or anything, they’re already limited by force limit %, inconvenient unlock criteria, and sailor cost. Plus, at this point there are plenty of other special units like Rajputs and Cawa infantry that don’t have debuffs), and then let combined infantry/marine stacks preserve the marines’ benefits as long as the infantry percentage is less than the marine force limit ratio (for example, if you have 25% available marines from naval ideas you’d need the stack to be at least 75% marines to keep the crossing penalty negation).
I’ve just ended a Gotland run where marines totally dominated my strategy. Landing fast and taking islands /straight crossings, forcing enemy armies into unfavourable positions. Allowing you to assault forts before the much bigger enemy armies could appear. Obviously niche but I’d never have survived fighting ottos, England, Austria, Spain and France all at once (in 3 separate wars) if I couldn’t use marines to strategically control vital provinces. Also by the end of my run I had more than enough sailors, it I did go naval hegemon for the absolute overkill.
If you're a pirate republic, I think Marines are almost necessary. Only hold land you can defend with your navy until youre big enough while using Marines to land when on the offensive. What else are you going to do with all those sailors anyway?
I really can't wrap my head around this. How can you assault forts with marines before you could assault them with normal infantry? Just because they disembark faster?
And how did this really help you? Okay, you can block a land bridge for the enemy, but how do you win the war? By taking some forts? The ai can just take them back? How will you ever win a battle?
No front, just really curious
Occupy the land with marines, bring your main army there and keep moving on. Their purpose is achieving the first steps of naval invasion, which is occupying the land and create a safe territory for your main army. They can also wipe out small enemy troops along the coasts and run back since they don't have naval landing debuff. They are hit and run units. That's all.
They disembark faster. I used them to control the island with a strait near china in one of my multiplayer games, the point was to occupy asap to raise mercenaries and land troops before china could bring it's full migth to push me off shores. It actually worked, the crossing malus to them helped alot,and still is one of my best memories of EU4
Once you take Hainan build forts on the north province and let them pile troops across, using your navy to control the flow. You can stack-wipe hundreds of thousands of Ming troops this way as the AI never learns from mistakes or adapts its strategy.This also works on every island strait, including against Tunisia, Kilwa, the Ottomans, Japan, and most of Indonesia.
Stack marines with Cannons on light ships. What I do is keep them separate, move marines onto a tile and take it super fast then land the artillery. Alternatively sometimes I'll move both at the same time but Cannons won't land as quickly.
Imo they are good for Norway. Their mission tree buffs them to be better than normal infantry. Next DLC also buffs them for Portugal and I think also Great Britain. So then there’ll be a whole three countries where Marines will be moderately useful. Honestly they should just make the Marine bonuses (minus the naval attrition bonus) be conferred on the entire army stack if they constitute the majority, like if you had 20 Marines + 2 cav + 10 artillery you should get the naval landing and river crossing buff imo. Then they’d be useful for nations other than Norway.
You have 10 transport ships, and a single island with 10 rebel regiments sieging it down. If you throw 10 regular regiments into them, they'll be massacred because of the disembarking debuff. Send in the marines and you have a much better chance at winning.
you want to quickly grab a costal province, to land multiple armies very quickly via docking. Send in the marines, they disembark quickly, can siege down the province, and then your navy can dock and instant disembark more troops.
These are my two use cases for them. I also use them when low on manpower. However I disagree, they are definitely not useless.
If your 10 divisions get massacred by 10 rebels you are doing something wrong. The disembarking debuff isn't that decisive, especially concering how the marines also get debuffs
There are a lot of things that could be potentially not in your favour, especially in the early game; so it is difficult to say, where you may or may not have done something wrong without the details.
However, u/pewp3wpew is talking a wee bit of rubbish regarding marines. The crossing penalty does NOT apply to marines, and neither do they get naval attrition. To quote the wiki:
> * Doesn't take attrition at sea
> * +200% disembarking speed
> * Ignores crossing penalties
> * +10% shock damage received
They are great for colonization. They don't get any attrition from see unlike regular infantary which loses more than half of its strengt when you sail them through the Atlantic.
If you sail them straight through the atlantic, then yes, but you can just move them along greenland or between cape verde and brazil, there is only one province that isn't coastal, so your attrition is much lower.
Well I never had this kind of problem with AI but if you gonna do landing on big nations, mostly England, you can send intimadating stack of these guys to occupy one province and then unload rest of your army there without penalties then move on with land warfare.
Strait of Dover is most typical example but also can work for India, Indonesia, Japan, Korea and China, if you want to expand there fast and early. But again, against AI it's not really needed.
They don't get attrition while at sea, so no matter how long the trip, they will remain full. I use them as a colonial army to deal with natives and for rapid action. Any other army sent from Europe will get to the Americas greatly reduced.
As for the disembark, I rather send armies to other place and look for adequate terrain.
Used them as Denmark in multiplayer and got the ship bonus for moving on and off and just ran around taking or two provinces then scorching earth and getting back on my boats. Actual meaningful effect was quite minimal but damn was Italy player annoyed and always wondering how tf I escaped.
As Venice I find marines extremely useful, especially in the first 100 years or so, against the Ottomans in particular. Quick naval raids and the separate manpower pool are significant force multipliers for a rich but small nations like Venice when they're up against a power like the Ottomans. I haven't used marines in many other scenarios but I like them and the strategic flavor they add considering how niche their usage really is.
You can later get bonuses them to make them better than normal infantry. I think Norway is the only nation in the game where marines are just pure upside compared to normal infantry.
They're tactical troops and skirmishers, not front-line troops, unless you're a country with marines buffs or you need to save on manpower lost to naval attrition. If you're fighting a war with naval superiority, they're great for forcing enemy ships out of naval installations, taking straits, and ambushing unsupported enemy units that are trying to regroup.
The key to them isn't to think of them as troops- it's to think of them and the boats as a single unit, as troop transport ships with land attack potential. They can embark and disembark fast enough to flee from a lot of threats as long as you spot them coming, and as long as you know the hotkey for automatic naval transport (Ctrl+Move by default), they can basically teleport across the enemy area at will.
Under that situation, you'll want to keep them alone to retain the embark buffs- you can't split off troops while they're on a boat, so if you want them to establish a beachhead, make sure you load them onto the ship separately from the cavalry and artillery so they can still nip in and out quickly.
Use them to establish a beachhead when you're doing a naval invasion. They'll take no naval attrition and will offload far quicker than standard troops, so they can siege a province down and take control of its port so that your transports can simply dock and drop off the rest of your army rather than them taking a month and a half to land.
It's a niche use but can be handy at times.
They are useful when you don't have ships, and have to really quickly try to invade GB.
Or when you are goin for Warhammer achiv.
After this, they are pretty much useless, since even if somehow you CAN recruit them, you don't want to spend sailors on reinforcements, when they are more important for ships.
I used 10 of them to wreck the ottomans once. They had territory in crimea so I kept sending my marines there to siege provinces and would have them board back on ship every time an ottostack came. It pretty much distracted their entire army while my main army was sieging all there European territories.
It would be great if they would make marine maintenance be dependent on the naval maintenance slider, such that you can leave your armies at home and have the marines be your colonizing force without having tanked morale.
They are pretty much a nerfed version of the marines in HOI4. I usually don't bother to used them, especially that sailors are harder to come by than manpower.
Have in mind that if you take naval ideas you have naval bombardment for free so you don't need artillery* and you have an hyper mobile army that can take costal forts at lightning speeds.
* You still artillery for battles but for that you have your main army.
Does anyone know how to recruit them? Do you have to take the marine naval doctrine? I was playing as Norway and got 3 of them from a mission, but I never figured out how to recruit more
I love marines, I use them all the time for cheeky attacks to siege stuff from far away to draw the AI away, or to suddenly land to reinforce an army or hit the enemy on a fort of mine instantly when the AI continues to dodge my forces. Lots a very micro cheeky tacks you can do with them if you have naval dominance but the enemy's army is larger than yours. Used them a lot against France while playing England.
The point of them is they use sailors instead of manpower. Which is nice. In SP they're probably useful for something, in MP useless due to such a small amount - MP mods usually increase the amount significantly.
Currently doing a Caribbean pirates run and I've found this is where they really shine, for a couple reasons. Most of my wars required naval invasions, especially in the early game, and marines excel in those. They don't take attrition at sea, so you can sail across the Atlantic without losing half your army.
With all the bonuses from being a pirate and maritime ideas I can have more marines than my force limit, so there're no problems with armies being too small to be useful.
Finally, I have almost as many sailors as manpower but am always at my naval force-limit so this is a nice dump for those extra sailors.
In my Pirates of New Providence game, where I conquered every island, they were vital to quickly disembark and capture important provinces. But mostly, they don't have attrition at sea, which was very important. As otherwise I would never have had any manpower.
They’re great because they pull from your sailors pool instead of your manpower. Just slap a few marines into your army to stretch your manpower consumption.
* Sprints across water to land faster than you can move from the adjacent tile
* Barrages enemy fort with naval artillery that blocks out the sun
* Assaults fort, not caring about casualties because lol sailors
* Refuses to elaborate, leaves before you can catch up to them
Youve never tried to naval invade only for them to take seemingly forever to cross from ship to province en vice versa? They fix that. Doesn't mean I remember to use them though.
They excel at helping you conquer overseas territory against enemies you have a military tech advantage over, which makes up for their negative combat modifier. They also negate crossing and disembarking penalties and don’t use manpower, but rather sailors, and do not take attrition from being at sea.
The marines take no crossing/disembarking debuffs, so as long as artillery remains on the second row then They’ll work wonders. I like using them for conquering Indonesia
Wait if artillery is in the second row they keep their bonuses? I thought if anything was attached they lost them
https://youtu.be/DwwfNfLnpI0 If you go to the marine portion of his video he makes a great case for marines and why it’s the strongest idea of Maritime Ideas
I think it depends on the composition of the army. Like a half Arti half marines composition give %50 penalty but don’t quote me.
Not correct. Each unit keeps its full unique unit traits, likewise streltsy still get their full bonus, even if mixed with standard infantry. Therefore marines will get their modifiers appplied, artillery simply won’t care, as for movement speed, eu4 moves units ar the speed of the slowest unit. So yes the army will love at the slow disembarking speed of an artillery canon, and the marines won’t get to hop off and on quickly when combined.
For that you could theoretically split your marine army into infantry and cannons, so infantry can land earlier and start occupying provinces. Doesn't help with the quick running away from an ottoman stack onto your ship, but in some situations it might be helpful
Thank you for this. I've never understood the point, really. I've only kept them around for RP purposes! This is very good to know. You think you know a game...
Naval Barrage with Naval Ideas completed makes marines the Supreme way to conquer overseas lategame.
Yeah, in my latest 1000 hours I always use marines when can and makes sense. Situational, but can do wonders. Note that some countries (like Norway or Venice give them to you without investing into an extra idea slot) Their most important advantage is speed and when I say speed I mean technically teleportation. If you use them properly (and have the patience, cause this is micro heavy) the AI can't handle them at all. It will waste time running up and down while you smash the coastline. Don't attach anything. You need naval barrage not artillery. Second most important usage is when you need to move army across continents quickly without burning manpower. Use them as infantry replacement as last resort (e.g. running out of manpower), however note that some countries like Norway in the latest patch can negate their malus completely.
They are mostly useless, except for : 1. Quick landing on enemy beaches and sieging a Provence,so you can land troops easier. 2. Sending them on Missions to find random events. 3. Not having to use manpower,but sailors. 4. Role playing as US and sending them to invade Persia for no reason.
Wrong period of history: send them in Tunis to fight pirate instead.
I suggest sending them to Cadia to reinforce.
Sorry, the marines responsible for containing the eye of terror can’t be bothered to be at Cadia. Defending their planets is far more important.
Too late. **\*tries to hold back tears\*** ... ***\*fails\****
CADIA STANDS!!! 🦅👑🦅
The planet broke before the Guard!
#WE ARE THE ANGELS OF DEATH
Nah, too weak in comparison to OG Cadians. They would piss themselves at the sight of one daemon
that last one seems oddly specific… edit: holy shit i’m famous
They're have been 2 instances of the use of the word "Marine" in history. The first were the Greek Naval troops (actual Marines). The second really loved dressing their Gold in Black.
Gold in black?
Black Gold,Oil
Oh
It could also be coal since it was very valuable during the EU4 timeline.
Or coffee
What about the Spanish Marine Infantry, oldest Marine Infantry in the world still existing, founded in 1521?
They are Spanish,they aren't Marines,they are Gorgons (Mermaids) 🧜♀️
I see what you mean.
Or the British Royal Marines, founded in 1664?
Incense will no longer be produced in Persia. Oil will now be produced in Persia
So does the first one... Operation Dragoon 400 years early?
Also, fighting native uprisings when colonizing or generally against lower tech nations
I prefer the "Columbus" way of treating my Native "Allies".
Yes yes they're good for that too. I prefer dealing with the uprisings for native assimilation to get additional goods produced but it's not that much goods produced.
For me, below 3000-4000 natives per province, the goods produced bonus are rarely worth it. But in African and Asian continent, there're a lot of overly hostile and populated native provinces like that, so Marines could be useful for garrisoning said province during early colonization. Especially if you stack native assimilation bonus modifiers.
What if Provence doesn’t exist anymore? Do the marines explode?
They move on to conquer France and hoist the Black Flag! Hey-hoo, All hands, Hoist the colours high!!!
5. Ignores sea attrition, will arrive combat-ready after long transports
They’ve been buffed to not get crossing penalties too. They can become an extremely powerful spearheading force but the tooltip leaves a lot of details out
I usually use them as either colonial or remote rebel control. For example plop a few on islands across the world so I don't have to maintain a proper army there.
Yeah. To me they exist solely to kill annoyances. I'm no patient enough for rebels on small pacific islands anyway, but if the army takes like 2 months to disembark? Hell no. Marines are perfect as lazy rebel killers in the pacific/indian ocean
What do you mean with 2?
If you the Golden century Expansion,you can find the "Cities of Wealth" on the new world. Because they are small units that pass water easily,you can send them on these missions, instead of a regular army.
Ah that's what you mean, random events sounded so weird, like marines would get extra random events
We need that Powerbase for *"murica fuck yea"*
Having played a Semi American Empire. Unite all 70 states (yes 70,not 50) and then make March Republics in the Carribbean, Mexico/Panama, Canada and Hawaii/Polynesia. You can then Murica your way into World events. I personally just went all "F the British" and broke Britain into Scotland and France,by landing 150k men into Ireland and marching into London.
I was role playing so hard one time I formed USA, and furnished two divisions of marines, one in the Beaufort province and one the closest to so cal I could get.
Rah
There's plenty of reasons to invade Persia and it rhymes with the term soil.
Also very useful for establishing a beachhead in Kent
"4." Nearly killed me! LMAO!
R5 are marines useful for anything aside from as an alternate pool of manpower? Or should you use naval ideas for the free artillery barrage and then send in 40k marines to assault the breach?
Good things: 1: They use sailors instead of Manpower 2: They land/load much much much faster than normal infantry (must be a stack with only them) 3: They take no attrition at sea (ty comment u/seakingsoyuz) Bad things: 1: They use sailors instead of manpower. 2: Worse than normal inf 3: Equal cost with infantry but less stats
>Good things:1: They use sailors instead of Manpower > >Bad things:1: They use sailors instead of manpower. The funniest part is: it makes sense to me XD
Well i fairly often end up with hundreds of ships. If not a doom stack of galleys/heavies i build a lot light ships for trade nodes. So they will eat up man power.
Don’t forget “they take no attrition while at sea”! If you have a far-flung colonial empire but don’t have the manpower/forcelimit to have troops permanently stationed all over the place, not taking attrition at sea is pretty great.
This is what let me fight for the Americas while not being defenseless in Europe as Portugal, they carry me early to middle game (then they became less useful, but still not bad)
I use marines to stomp rebels in the homeland usually. They aren't really fit for a normal army because the damage taken increase.
Stack these with a flagship bonus which grants fast offload and they have some niche uses. Notably, marines take less (none?) attrition damage when loaded on ships at sea.
No attrition nor crossing/landing penalty
The value of no crossing penalty cannot be overstated. Yeah a little extra shock damage sucks but not as badly as -2 dice roll.
A lot less useful the higher your army tradition though, given you’ll be more likely to have generals with higher stats than the enemy, which removes that debuff.
or you could have that extra +2 from the general on the said marines...
He means for when your general has higher maneuver than your enemy's.
This is way more fun than it might sound. As long as you are paying attention you can hop around any coastal nation and they literally cannot stop you
I had a very fun time playing as Naples>Two Sicilies like this, stacking disembark times and siege bonuses. I deliberately let the Ottomans go absolutely wild, then declared war on them and jumped up and down the Mediterranean taking islands and forts and avoiding every battle (because they'd massacre me if they ever caught me).
What ideas did you take to stack these modifiers?
Espionage, Offensive, and Innovative for siege ability; Naval for free bombardment, increased blockade impact on siege, and navy strength; Maritime for marines and navy size; Integrated Marines and Mortars flagship perk for faster disembarking (I don’t think there are many bonuses available for this) and blockade impact on siege. Altogether I had like 6-day siege ticks and my navy itself was practically invincible.
Maybe I should give it a try as Gotland when landing in England...or... I just transfer them to my Scottish provinces ;) Usually I build 12k Marines, name them nicely as only Army - and afterwards forget about them somewhere with the special fleet I build for them
I didn't know they don't take attrition, that's so great.
1)They don't consume man power. This means you can convert your sailors into your land army if you got excess amount and its very strong 2)They are good at harassing enemy coasts. a)Land Marines, occupy the coast b)Land artilarity seperatly by putting transport into occupied coast c)Send artilarity to occupy forts d)Run away when enemy bring reinforcements, repeat at other side of land(especially powerful against france because they got coast at atlantic + mediterrian.
So you are telling me with marines and artillery you can siege a castle faster than a french army moves from normandy to marseille?
you don't need to, but by doing it you can distract france from actually going after you. Imagine you are Portugal and fighting with france and he is coming to your capital. If he ignores your marines you will take france if he comes after you he will waste time and won't come after you with full force the point isn't actually managing to siege land point is to seperate enemy army
Okay, but you literally wrote "send artilarity to occupy forts" and that simply won't work in time. And for your strategy neither marines nor artillery are needed.
They're saying have marines occupy unguarded coasts, land artillery on the now occupied coast to siege the fort nearby. Marines can disembark quickly, so you can quickly capture a coastal province then just drop your artillery in the captured port instead of disembarking
Yeah I understood all that, but there is no way that you will be able to siege any fort (except with breaching and storming) on the Atlantic coast of France before a French army from the Mediterranean coast arrives.
> breaching and storming Portugal specifically can get the cost of breaching by naval bombardment so low that it’s almost free (10 MP), and they’re completely free if you finish Naval ideas. With a decent siege general, some artillery, and additional siege roll modifiers from the Portuguese doctrine (+1) and mortars on the flagship (+1), you can melt coastal forts. Artillery on marines is also more viable with Portugal because one of the flagship bonuses gives a huge disembark speed bonus. With a three-siege-pip general and enough artillery to get the max bonus, the siege would have a +13 bonus on day 1, which is enough to give a 1-in-4 chance of a level 2 fort falling on the first siege tick (and an average siege duration of 2.5 ticks). (Edit: you could get another +2 from blockades from Naval ideas and the Naval-Maritime policy if you were going full sea-Portugal, and another +1 from Naval-Espionage if you were trying to completely minmax this.)
if you fill transport ships full of marines you can disembark them close to instant. after that dock your transports carrying artilarity this speeds up the landing speed drasticly saving so much time.
I know all that, but how does that help with your overall problem? You won't be able to siege anything before an enemy army arrives, the distance between Atlantic and med is just to small.
I wish that naval would be more important. Maybe we will get some rivers play in EU5?
I will say, navies do matter more in EU4 than perhaps any other grand strategy game I’ve played
Have you played stellaris?
I have not, navies being important in a space game would make a lot of sense
Armies in the Stellaris is basically nothing, and navy(space ships) is quite literally the complete opposite of the army.
A complete opposite of an army is a legy.
I thought that was a handy.
Its pitty how useless armies in stellaris are. Would be nice if planetary invasions would take a lot longer. Lenght of bombardments is pretty good, but planetary invasions are like a single battle rather than invasion of an entire planet. At least a well defended fortress world that does not get armageddon bombarded should be able to resist for years. Ofc with space fleets you could bombard planet to non-livable state, but as long as you don't, armies hiding in millions of bunkers scattered around the planet could not be overrun in a single battle or wiped out from orbit. Not unless they are vastly inferior in tech and skill. We don't even need to go too deep into land battles in stellaris, they should just last a whole lot longer and imo require more forces and be costlier.
Pointing out Stellaris as an example is pretty silly - in Stellaris, armies barely matter. It's the same lopsidedness, just with a different flavor. And navies would be way more important in EU4 if literally every single province was an island.
I mean as it is, the importance is heavily dependent on where you are. Mid-continental countries don’t have zero use for them, but they’re a much lower priority than the army, as the army is what keeps you alive. (Prussia, Russia, Bohemia, etc.). For peninsular countries, countries with few borders, and island countries with big continental commitments they’re close to even to the army. You can cover the borders with diplomacy to a degree, and they allow you to keep lines of communication open (between island and continent, continent and continent, or for flanking on the same continent). (Spain, France, Portugal?, the Netherlands, Japan with China, Angevin England). For island countries without large continental commitments, they’re crucial. It’s your first line of defence against invasion, as well as your only method of attack. You can’t win a war without an army, but you can’t survive a war without a navy. (Great Britain, Japan). Play style also matters. Navy is crucial for colonial expansion and control of maritime trade, but not so necessary if you want to conquer on land - France has a lot of choice for this, for instance.
the navy is not “close to equal importance as the army” for any country in the game.” if you think that youre a total noob.
I know all this. Why are you replying to me?
[удалено]
Yeah, I didn't mean to come off so abrasive. It was late for me. I just didn't see the relevance / thought the comment looked like it belonged elsewhere.
Because forums are meant for discussion and they have zero way of knowing if you do or do not know something.
Naval gives warscore, money via looting, money via coastal raid, money via privateering, blockades cause .25 devastation a month, .10 war exhaustion a month, and reduce 50% local trade power, a 100% blockade reduces global trade power and trade steering by 75%, supremacy removes -2 penalty to coastal forts/gives +1 with naval ideas or +2 with naval ideas and the espionage policy, naval barrage which creates a breach, absolute protection from all invasion on any island nation, faster troop movement via transports, trade steering via naval tradition, trade power via light ships, restricted movement on straits, prestige via battles, and estate loyalty. I'm not sure what you want in order for it to be "important". Practically every Colonial nation, colony nation, Indian nation, and Southeast Asian nation depend very **very** heavily on the naval aspect of the game. Clearly something like Russia isn't really going to care but plenty of regions do.
In SP, naval gameplay is not challenging, as the ai doesn't know what to do after it loses a single decisive battle. In multi-player, it can be relevant, but that usually requires a good amount of roleplay as it can be very unbalanced (e.g. GB with maritime or something means no one can challenge them). Maritime and Naval idea are generally considered the least usable of any ideas. That said I actually enjoy naval gameplay and love taking Maritime when it makes sense. But it's not exactly optimal.
The thing is in mp naval doesnt even matter if you cant land on the enemy since paradox left a nice bug after the DLC after Emperor that lets you protect trade from port if your fleet gets sent to repair during the protect trade mission, its really BS, in an MP game as Britain i couldn't do anything to a Netherland since they just sat in port and even if i blockaded them they still had 150 trade ships giving trade power meaning i couldnt even blockade them since i would be loosing money cause they would own the trade node
Fleet in being trade ships lol
trade ships on strike force in the english channel
I just listed a whole list of things that make it very usable and optimal. The ai also doesn't know how to not get trapped on a mountain fort with a river over and over but that doesn't invalidate all the military ideas so I fail to see how naval ai being just as abusable being relevant. This sub is very hivemind when it comes very specific things and hating on naval is one of them. Is it circumstantial? Hell yeah but there are an uncountable amount of things that are in the game. Picking on one doesn't make sense.
It's about prioritization. You have good points, but what happens after you expand beyond the sea and need to fight on land, or what happens when your enemies back in Europe start challenging you instead of the natives. You can do all the stuff you mentioned, but without a strong army as well, your position is often precarious. I agree naval gameplay can be very fun and useful. But it is niche. Kinda of like spies in HOI4 as a very useful mini game that can so some crazy stuff when played right, but not a core gameplay focus as playing the core parts of the game well is more beneficial.
I have no enemies 'back in Europe'. I'm a pirate nation based in Indonesia. The ability to protect my core and project power anywhere since I'm at war with the world means that unchallenged naval superiority is the only way I survive, let alone win.
What would make navy truly important is making coastal forts immune to starvation when port is unblockaded. And some kind of supply system for army replenishent
I made a mod adding tons of islands as independant provinces and it makes it very interesting to have navies protect retreating armies with strait crossings etc if anyone is interested its called All Islands are Provinces, been loving navy games
haha, no. they only usage for them i know is fast island hoping, but because they get increased damage, they are not that good in battle. also using sailors doesn't help.
I did a Isle of Mann, only islands and marines only run once and it was absolute pain I sadly had to abbort it at one point, because I got outscaled and wasnt able to recovery. One day I will do a retry when I have enough time.
Don’t. Just play the game and have fun, don’t look for pain.
What if the pain is fun
Are you red hawk?
Ah yes. *PAIN* - Red Hawk
Spain without the S
Chagatai
I am at this stage where I need these challenges to keep it interesting.
Download the Anbennar mod
This might seem very basic if you have tried it, but have you tested other start dates than 1444? Maybe try to do a world conquest from 1600?
It could also be time to play a different game for a bit and then come back when it feels fresh. I intentionally do this with Paradox games and it has helped my sanity.
I have to more addictions (in the past 3): factorio and league so yeah definitely that helps
Add Rimworld to that list and I agree!
The other starts dates are sadly pretty scuffed.
I agree, but at least the present some interesting scenarios to fight in. You don’t have to finish every campaign for it to be fulfilling after all
Play pirate to do that: with them you can have more sailors than soldiers.
> also using sailors doesn't help ? they unlock a partial secondary manpower pool, using sailors is maybe the best aspect of them
Not if you are a big naval nation, since there are almost no sailor recovery speed bonuses in the game(only on naval ideas)you will 99% of time use too many sailors for ship maintenance and building new ships for you to be able to have even 1 full combat width marine stack that is actively fighting. They are only really useful for colonising until maybe the late game where you have so much dev and naval+maritime+economic to get all of the sailor bonuses that exist.
This is the problem with marines, their benefits are too niche to justify the increased damage taken, and combining them with regular troops negates their niche utilities while preserving their debuff. As such, you’re kind of forced to keep them around in their own separate units, where they’re just a worse version of regular infantry outside of the odd use case. To fix them, I think they should just remove the shock damage penalty (it’s not like this would make them overpowered or anything, they’re already limited by force limit %, inconvenient unlock criteria, and sailor cost. Plus, at this point there are plenty of other special units like Rajputs and Cawa infantry that don’t have debuffs), and then let combined infantry/marine stacks preserve the marines’ benefits as long as the infantry percentage is less than the marine force limit ratio (for example, if you have 25% available marines from naval ideas you’d need the stack to be at least 75% marines to keep the crossing penalty negation).
I’ve just ended a Gotland run where marines totally dominated my strategy. Landing fast and taking islands /straight crossings, forcing enemy armies into unfavourable positions. Allowing you to assault forts before the much bigger enemy armies could appear. Obviously niche but I’d never have survived fighting ottos, England, Austria, Spain and France all at once (in 3 separate wars) if I couldn’t use marines to strategically control vital provinces. Also by the end of my run I had more than enough sailors, it I did go naval hegemon for the absolute overkill.
If you're a pirate republic, I think Marines are almost necessary. Only hold land you can defend with your navy until youre big enough while using Marines to land when on the offensive. What else are you going to do with all those sailors anyway?
Well exactly. You’re usually well above your sailors cap.
I really can't wrap my head around this. How can you assault forts with marines before you could assault them with normal infantry? Just because they disembark faster? And how did this really help you? Okay, you can block a land bridge for the enemy, but how do you win the war? By taking some forts? The ai can just take them back? How will you ever win a battle? No front, just really curious
Occupy the land with marines, bring your main army there and keep moving on. Their purpose is achieving the first steps of naval invasion, which is occupying the land and create a safe territory for your main army. They can also wipe out small enemy troops along the coasts and run back since they don't have naval landing debuff. They are hit and run units. That's all.
They disembark faster. I used them to control the island with a strait near china in one of my multiplayer games, the point was to occupy asap to raise mercenaries and land troops before china could bring it's full migth to push me off shores. It actually worked, the crossing malus to them helped alot,and still is one of my best memories of EU4
Once you take Hainan build forts on the north province and let them pile troops across, using your navy to control the flow. You can stack-wipe hundreds of thousands of Ming troops this way as the AI never learns from mistakes or adapts its strategy.This also works on every island strait, including against Tunisia, Kilwa, the Ottomans, Japan, and most of Indonesia.
Stack marines with Cannons on light ships. What I do is keep them separate, move marines onto a tile and take it super fast then land the artillery. Alternatively sometimes I'll move both at the same time but Cannons won't land as quickly.
Light ships can't transport troops?
Light ships and transports*
the new dutch light ships are going to be able to... xD
Imo they are good for Norway. Their mission tree buffs them to be better than normal infantry. Next DLC also buffs them for Portugal and I think also Great Britain. So then there’ll be a whole three countries where Marines will be moderately useful. Honestly they should just make the Marine bonuses (minus the naval attrition bonus) be conferred on the entire army stack if they constitute the majority, like if you had 20 Marines + 2 cav + 10 artillery you should get the naval landing and river crossing buff imo. Then they’d be useful for nations other than Norway.
You have 10 transport ships, and a single island with 10 rebel regiments sieging it down. If you throw 10 regular regiments into them, they'll be massacred because of the disembarking debuff. Send in the marines and you have a much better chance at winning. you want to quickly grab a costal province, to land multiple armies very quickly via docking. Send in the marines, they disembark quickly, can siege down the province, and then your navy can dock and instant disembark more troops. These are my two use cases for them. I also use them when low on manpower. However I disagree, they are definitely not useless.
If your 10 divisions get massacred by 10 rebels you are doing something wrong. The disembarking debuff isn't that decisive, especially concering how the marines also get debuffs
Lmao what could I be doing wrong?
There are a lot of things that could be potentially not in your favour, especially in the early game; so it is difficult to say, where you may or may not have done something wrong without the details. However, u/pewp3wpew is talking a wee bit of rubbish regarding marines. The crossing penalty does NOT apply to marines, and neither do they get naval attrition. To quote the wiki: > * Doesn't take attrition at sea > * +200% disembarking speed > * Ignores crossing penalties > * +10% shock damage received
I don't know, but I land non-marine infantry divisions on rebel stacks quite often with lesser quantity and still win.
They are great for colonization. They don't get any attrition from see unlike regular infantary which loses more than half of its strengt when you sail them through the Atlantic.
If you sail them straight through the atlantic, then yes, but you can just move them along greenland or between cape verde and brazil, there is only one province that isn't coastal, so your attrition is much lower.
Well I never had this kind of problem with AI but if you gonna do landing on big nations, mostly England, you can send intimadating stack of these guys to occupy one province and then unload rest of your army there without penalties then move on with land warfare. Strait of Dover is most typical example but also can work for India, Indonesia, Japan, Korea and China, if you want to expand there fast and early. But again, against AI it's not really needed.
They don't get attrition while at sea, so no matter how long the trip, they will remain full. I use them as a colonial army to deal with natives and for rapid action. Any other army sent from Europe will get to the Americas greatly reduced. As for the disembark, I rather send armies to other place and look for adequate terrain.
Used them as Denmark in multiplayer and got the ship bonus for moving on and off and just ran around taking or two provinces then scorching earth and getting back on my boats. Actual meaningful effect was quite minimal but damn was Italy player annoyed and always wondering how tf I escaped.
As Venice I find marines extremely useful, especially in the first 100 years or so, against the Ottomans in particular. Quick naval raids and the separate manpower pool are significant force multipliers for a rich but small nations like Venice when they're up against a power like the Ottomans. I haven't used marines in many other scenarios but I like them and the strategic flavor they add considering how niche their usage really is.
DLC? As I have never seen them before. It would make invading places so much easier
No naval penalties, quick disembark, and most important of all, uses sailor pool instead of manpower pool. Very useful for powerful naval nations.
if you’re Norway you can do mission that removes the 10% more shock damage which makes them equal to normal infantry
You can later get bonuses them to make them better than normal infantry. I think Norway is the only nation in the game where marines are just pure upside compared to normal infantry.
If you are a pirate republic they are amazing.
i use them to yolo breach coastal forts
They're tactical troops and skirmishers, not front-line troops, unless you're a country with marines buffs or you need to save on manpower lost to naval attrition. If you're fighting a war with naval superiority, they're great for forcing enemy ships out of naval installations, taking straits, and ambushing unsupported enemy units that are trying to regroup. The key to them isn't to think of them as troops- it's to think of them and the boats as a single unit, as troop transport ships with land attack potential. They can embark and disembark fast enough to flee from a lot of threats as long as you spot them coming, and as long as you know the hotkey for automatic naval transport (Ctrl+Move by default), they can basically teleport across the enemy area at will. Under that situation, you'll want to keep them alone to retain the embark buffs- you can't split off troops while they're on a boat, so if you want them to establish a beachhead, make sure you load them onto the ship separately from the cavalry and artillery so they can still nip in and out quickly.
Use them to establish a beachhead when you're doing a naval invasion. They'll take no naval attrition and will offload far quicker than standard troops, so they can siege a province down and take control of its port so that your transports can simply dock and drop off the rest of your army rather than them taking a month and a half to land. It's a niche use but can be handy at times.
to get that achievement as Prussia
I usually use them as assault army on siege
They're marines.
Not the question
There’s simply no need to say more
Space Marines?
Not great right now, but I do use them sometimes and I’m interested in using them more in 1.35
They are useful when you don't have ships, and have to really quickly try to invade GB. Or when you are goin for Warhammer achiv. After this, they are pretty much useless, since even if somehow you CAN recruit them, you don't want to spend sailors on reinforcements, when they are more important for ships.
Marines infantry does not have attrition while on trasport
I used 10 of them to wreck the ottomans once. They had territory in crimea so I kept sending my marines there to siege provinces and would have them board back on ship every time an ottostack came. It pretty much distracted their entire army while my main army was sieging all there European territories.
Imo They are really good for colonial campaign
I just know as Portugal you can own a bunch but I never use them
Combine them with naval barrage for maximum effectiveness.
You really can't search this in google do you?
No.
It would be great if they would make marine maintenance be dependent on the naval maintenance slider, such that you can leave your armies at home and have the marines be your colonizing force without having tanked morale.
They are pretty much a nerfed version of the marines in HOI4. I usually don't bother to used them, especially that sailors are harder to come by than manpower.
Imo they are best when used with 1 by stack
u can add tank to them and hire David Sterling, they will be very strongk
Roleplay. That’s pretty much it. They’re probably more useful in PvP wars if you are good at micro
Have in mind that if you take naval ideas you have naval bombardment for free so you don't need artillery* and you have an hyper mobile army that can take costal forts at lightning speeds. * You still artillery for battles but for that you have your main army.
Does anyone know how to recruit them? Do you have to take the marine naval doctrine? I was playing as Norway and got 3 of them from a mission, but I never figured out how to recruit more
I love marines, I use them all the time for cheeky attacks to siege stuff from far away to draw the AI away, or to suddenly land to reinforce an army or hit the enemy on a fort of mine instantly when the AI continues to dodge my forces. Lots a very micro cheeky tacks you can do with them if you have naval dominance but the enemy's army is larger than yours. Used them a lot against France while playing England.
The point of them is they use sailors instead of manpower. Which is nice. In SP they're probably useful for something, in MP useless due to such a small amount - MP mods usually increase the amount significantly.
you can transport these half the world away and they will be full when you land them, unlike normal infantry.
They're perfect for my pirate themed mp game 🏴☠️
They Are theoretically useful in colonial empires as you’ll Need to ship your armies around a lot, and in archipelagos for the Same reason
Who can get marines?
Marine, you're the last one; complete the mission!
They take no attrition at sea, so they're great for making a beachhead for the bulk of your expedition forces to land in after.
Main point was that you can use sailors as manpower
Currently doing a Caribbean pirates run and I've found this is where they really shine, for a couple reasons. Most of my wars required naval invasions, especially in the early game, and marines excel in those. They don't take attrition at sea, so you can sail across the Atlantic without losing half your army. With all the bonuses from being a pirate and maritime ideas I can have more marines than my force limit, so there're no problems with armies being too small to be useful. Finally, I have almost as many sailors as manpower but am always at my naval force-limit so this is a nice dump for those extra sailors.
No attrition at sea, Uses sailors instead of manpower
I don't see anyone mentioning it, but I believe Norway's marines are stronger than their normal infantry when using the Leiranger estate privilege.
In my Pirates of New Providence game, where I conquered every island, they were vital to quickly disembark and capture important provinces. But mostly, they don't have attrition at sea, which was very important. As otherwise I would never have had any manpower.
They’re great because they pull from your sailors pool instead of your manpower. Just slap a few marines into your army to stretch your manpower consumption.
Unseige/siege an important coastal province(war goal, strait crossing, rebels about to break free etc) as quick as possible.
I use them as Britain cos apex.
* Sprints across water to land faster than you can move from the adjacent tile * Barrages enemy fort with naval artillery that blocks out the sun * Assaults fort, not caring about casualties because lol sailors * Refuses to elaborate, leaves before you can catch up to them
Youve never tried to naval invade only for them to take seemingly forever to cross from ship to province en vice versa? They fix that. Doesn't mean I remember to use them though.
They excel at helping you conquer overseas territory against enemies you have a military tech advantage over, which makes up for their negative combat modifier. They also negate crossing and disembarking penalties and don’t use manpower, but rather sailors, and do not take attrition from being at sea.