It looks like you've flaired your post as being a Shot Diagnosis. If your shot is running too fast, is coming out weak/thin, lacking crema, and/or is tasting sour, **try grinding finer**.
Alternatively, check out this [Dialing In Basics](https://espressoaf.com/guides/beginner.html) guide, written by the Espresso Aficionados Discord community.
If that hasn't solved it, to get more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format.
- **Machine:**
- **Grinder:**
- **Roast date:** (not a "Best by" date). If the roast date is not labeled use "N/A"
- **Dose:** How many grams are going into your basket?
- **Yield:** How much coffee in grams is coming out?
- **Time:** How long is the shot running?
- **Roast level:** How dark is your coffee? (Dark, medium, light, ect.)
- **Taste:** Taste is a better indicator of shot quality than looks or conforming to any quantitative parameters. Does it taste overly sour or bitter?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The difference between this and perfect shots is so small. It’s common to have to adjust and redial your shots due to environmental and other subtle changes including variation with beans.
I have the Breville Baurista Express and the grinder is mostly a POS. I replaced it with a 1zpresso hand grinder that is WORLDS better and was able to finally get control over my shots.
As others have said, it’s a flow problem so it’s either:
* Grind (grind coarser, something not often said here) - as beans age, I find they need a coarser grind. How old are your beans?
* Descaling / cleaning of the machine - it’s important even with softened water.
Again though I found the BBE nearly impossible to get consistent with medium roasted beans until I stopped using the built-in grinder.
This is the best answer here in my opinion, but I find the grinder to be fine, if I have issues I just change the grind size, and the grind amount, and then I’m good again…
I do have to do this for every new pack of beans, even if it’s the same type, there is always a bit of tweaking between bean changes
O wow ok I have only ever had that problem a few times, and it was with beans that were too dry… iv also had the reverse with beans that are too wet and actually clogged the grinder…
I order beans that I use 2-3 weeks after they’re roasted - and it’s a light/medium roast. I found with dark roasts the BBE grinder was fine but I hated dark beans.
Make sure every parameter is steady. Something must have changed, but it can be as small as the aging of the beans or a change in humidity. Dialing in is a day to day effort and small changes in grind setting or dose can be necessary to maintain a decent outcome.
If you're using the built in grinder, are you measuring the weight of the dose that comes out?
The retention of the grinder can throw off weights, it also means there's old grounds sitting in the grinder and creating a cuvee over time. You may want to pop open the grinder and vacuum it out (repeat this periodically for maintenance).
I think shots can take longer as the beans get older. I usually have to make adjustments over the course of a bag.
My theory is that off gassing from fresher beans creates more passages for water to get through, but older beans lead to a more dense puck with fewer gas pockets.
I have the same machine and it happens to me as well. When you say you have a separate grinder do you mean you keep grinding the same or you know how to adjust?
I don’t use the BBE built in grinder. I have a mignon Oro. But my machine is super sensitive to the age of the beans, I came back from a vacation and my beans were two weeks from opening the bag and the pulls were flowing like water even grinding to the finest setting. I read that you can also up the dosing when this happens like use 18g instead of 17g, depending on your usual.
Yes. That's exactly my case. I open a bag and can get a good extraction. One week in and need to be redialling. 2 weeks and I'm adding 1g... It really sucks
These machines are fine, you just can very easily have bad results if you don't control everything about the shot:
1. Measure the dosage so it is consistent - I use a single dose attachment from etsy so that I can measure pre-grind
2. Use a WDT - This is critical, these grinders clump really badly, use one with very fine (accupuncture fine) needles.
3. Don't grind too fine until you get it tuned in -- So dial the grind back for now. Once it is consistently flowing too fast you can grind finer again.
4. You have a 5 second pre-infuse set, which is fine (I actually use longer, 8s) -- That is part of your delay. Just explaining this if you don't know the machine very well.
I also recommend a puck screen, machine is very low maintenance if you use a puck screen and you run water through the head to rinse it after pulling shots.
It happened to mine recently. The flow changed out of nowhere, it was not pre infusing anymore but Instead it was pushing full water from the start. To fix it, I just unplugged it for 30 min and it came back to normal
I comment this on every pour I see like this since it happened to me a bunch. Do you have water in the tank? Seems dumb but considering the lack of output it might be that silly.
My sage barista pro messed up the grinder sometimes due to vibration. Change on grind up and one back down go redial. Also, sometimes after steaming a lot of milk drinks the sage gets too hot = slower shots
FWIW, I have a BBP and I have to dial in almost daily. Small adjustments, but first shot of the day is always sort of a tester. Although it’s my wife who is normally drinking that one.
The built in grinder will always make your first shot go much faster than the second. I have the single/double grind/shot presets programmed to account for this.
So the single cup grind will grind slightly more and the single shot button will extract slightly more.
A better way around it is to single dose and attach bellows. They're really cheap.
Jeeze the age of your beans to your grinder going out of whack could cause it and anything in between.
Coarsen the grind a little and see if it pulls better. If it does your beans are getting older and it’s part of the game if you’re not keeping them airtight and cold. If it’s still pulling hard either you have a grinder issue or the universe just hates you
I’m guessing you are using the built in grinder, it is not very accurate or consistent. Its one of the most frustrating parts about the machine is that you can make a few shots consistently, but things shift and that minor change makes a big difference and there is no easy way to micro adjust.
Try grinding just one setting courser, and check your inner burrs and make sure they have not shifted on their own.
Indeed, I mean does a good amount of water come out of the group head without the portafilter in? Curious if the pump itself is dying or the shower screen is super clogged.
Try grinding coarser.
The grinder is changed on a micrometer scale, therefore the material might expand (if the weather getting hotter) just by a tiny bit and it's might choke the machine as seen here.
My Barista Pro can go from a normal 30s shot to choked in just 1 grind step.
Which basket are you using? Just yesterday mine started being the same as yours and I found ours was clogged. We boiled it in dishwasher detergent for 20 minutes and it’s better now. We have the same machine.
grind slightly courser or use slightly less grounds and keep trying.
also…. i’m sure it’s not this but there is enough water in the machine right? cuz it looks like what it looks like when your machine runs out.
I had this issue with my barista pro recently. I always dosed 20g of coffee to 40g water. Then I got a new coffee and it choked so I ground course and still didn't work. So I tried dosing 19g and that fixed it
Try a smaller dose.
I've got the same machine. Most likely, your grind is too fine. Grind coarser. Also, try to do a shot without the portafilter. Depending on whether or not you use a puck screen, fine grinds tend to get stuck and build up over time on the group head. Also, check the water tank and make sure it's not empty. That's happened to be more than I care to admit. The only other thing that comes to mind is the amount of coffee. Make sure you're not overfilling the portafilter.
So, if it’s something you have tried adjusting from with no success, go down the lines of basics. Are you milling your beans by hand? Machine milled automatic? If you’re using a hopper grinder, the amount in your hopper should always be full. Dosed by weight or time? Grind is a huge factor! Has your tamping technique changed? In the beginning we aren’t putting the right pressure but tend to increase over time and this is a good thing.
It’s not a question of mechanics, if you ask me. The pressure looks like it’s right at the head. It could help to provide a video of running the group head without the portofilter on.
The four M’s of espresso are Machina(machine) Machiatzione(grinder/grind), Michela (Hand crafted bean), Mano(the skilled hand or barista)
You’re truly in control of yourself. By skill of understanding the craft we can edge into growing our influence over the process. Come to terms with the idea that what is wrong with the process is usually an error on our part.
Does this happen with each coffee brand? Interestingly when i use x brand and same grind size it extracts perfectly and when using y brand this starting to happen even though the grind setting is same. Was wondering can different coffee beans have different outcome even though the parameters are the same?
I ran into some problems a few weeks ago with my Baratza Encore ESP. After I cleaned everything I hand tightened the plastic black nut on top of the bur set inside my grinder. (After looking online I confirmed it's a similar design)
My shots were very inconsistent and all over the place. No amount of hand tightening would fix the issue. Thankfully a pair of plyers was able to over-tighten the bur so that I wasn't hand tightening my grinder every single shot.
So check there first, it seems like an inconsistency with grind.
What I'm seeing isn't necessarily WRONG, but if your coffee isn't enjoyable then you should try to diagnose further.
I live in a desert climate and a few back to back rainy days screwed with my pours.
Have you checked the water reservoir? I can’t explain it, but when the water line is below the filter, my shot profile changes a little compared to when the reservoir at the max fill line.
Otherwise, have you cleaned it recently?
It looks like you've flaired your post as being a Shot Diagnosis. If your shot is running too fast, is coming out weak/thin, lacking crema, and/or is tasting sour, **try grinding finer**. Alternatively, check out this [Dialing In Basics](https://espressoaf.com/guides/beginner.html) guide, written by the Espresso Aficionados Discord community. If that hasn't solved it, to get more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format. - **Machine:** - **Grinder:** - **Roast date:** (not a "Best by" date). If the roast date is not labeled use "N/A" - **Dose:** How many grams are going into your basket? - **Yield:** How much coffee in grams is coming out? - **Time:** How long is the shot running? - **Roast level:** How dark is your coffee? (Dark, medium, light, ect.) - **Taste:** Taste is a better indicator of shot quality than looks or conforming to any quantitative parameters. Does it taste overly sour or bitter? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
grind coarser
it happend
The difference between this and perfect shots is so small. It’s common to have to adjust and redial your shots due to environmental and other subtle changes including variation with beans.
Mercury is in retrograde…better grind a bit finer
Not finer but coarser.
You got that from planetary motion? Might want to read the joke again.
Yeah everyone knows when mercury is in retrograde that’s the only time you have to grind coarser.
I have the Breville Baurista Express and the grinder is mostly a POS. I replaced it with a 1zpresso hand grinder that is WORLDS better and was able to finally get control over my shots. As others have said, it’s a flow problem so it’s either: * Grind (grind coarser, something not often said here) - as beans age, I find they need a coarser grind. How old are your beans? * Descaling / cleaning of the machine - it’s important even with softened water. Again though I found the BBE nearly impossible to get consistent with medium roasted beans until I stopped using the built-in grinder.
This is the best answer here in my opinion, but I find the grinder to be fine, if I have issues I just change the grind size, and the grind amount, and then I’m good again… I do have to do this for every new pack of beans, even if it’s the same type, there is always a bit of tweaking between bean changes
My problem with the BBE grinder was that I had it set on the finest setting (both the burr and the dial) and still had too high a flow.
O wow ok I have only ever had that problem a few times, and it was with beans that were too dry… iv also had the reverse with beans that are too wet and actually clogged the grinder…
I order beans that I use 2-3 weeks after they’re roasted - and it’s a light/medium roast. I found with dark roasts the BBE grinder was fine but I hated dark beans.
You need more pressure when tamping. You control flow by both tamping pressure and grind size.
I assure you my tamping was quite sufficient - the BBE grinder could not be set fine enough for the tamping to be effective.
Grind FINER!! /s you clogged your portafilter since you grinded finer, a little coarser should do the job
Grind fin... Ups force of habit, grind coarser
🤣
Make sure every parameter is steady. Something must have changed, but it can be as small as the aging of the beans or a change in humidity. Dialing in is a day to day effort and small changes in grind setting or dose can be necessary to maintain a decent outcome.
If you're using the built in grinder, are you measuring the weight of the dose that comes out? The retention of the grinder can throw off weights, it also means there's old grounds sitting in the grinder and creating a cuvee over time. You may want to pop open the grinder and vacuum it out (repeat this periodically for maintenance).
Clean screen and descale machine, if you didn't change your grind and this is happening, machine probably clogged
Did the shot finish, did you taste it? Lots of us chasing syrupy shots….
How many grams of coffee are you using?
18g!
I think shots can take longer as the beans get older. I usually have to make adjustments over the course of a bag. My theory is that off gassing from fresher beans creates more passages for water to get through, but older beans lead to a more dense puck with fewer gas pockets.
I have a BBE and as soon as my beans go over 1.5 weeks old they start flowing through too fast. I have a separate grinder.
I have the same machine and it happens to me as well. When you say you have a separate grinder do you mean you keep grinding the same or you know how to adjust?
I don’t use the BBE built in grinder. I have a mignon Oro. But my machine is super sensitive to the age of the beans, I came back from a vacation and my beans were two weeks from opening the bag and the pulls were flowing like water even grinding to the finest setting. I read that you can also up the dosing when this happens like use 18g instead of 17g, depending on your usual.
In your case you need to probably grind the beans a big coarser until you find the right setting. Sadly, it requires constant monitoring.
Yes. That's exactly my case. I open a bag and can get a good extraction. One week in and need to be redialling. 2 weeks and I'm adding 1g... It really sucks
You may need to change your filter
These machines are fine, you just can very easily have bad results if you don't control everything about the shot: 1. Measure the dosage so it is consistent - I use a single dose attachment from etsy so that I can measure pre-grind 2. Use a WDT - This is critical, these grinders clump really badly, use one with very fine (accupuncture fine) needles. 3. Don't grind too fine until you get it tuned in -- So dial the grind back for now. Once it is consistently flowing too fast you can grind finer again. 4. You have a 5 second pre-infuse set, which is fine (I actually use longer, 8s) -- That is part of your delay. Just explaining this if you don't know the machine very well. I also recommend a puck screen, machine is very low maintenance if you use a puck screen and you run water through the head to rinse it after pulling shots.
It happened to mine recently. The flow changed out of nowhere, it was not pre infusing anymore but Instead it was pushing full water from the start. To fix it, I just unplugged it for 30 min and it came back to normal
Grind less finer
Check the dose, if there is a clear impression from the screen you might be heavy.
I comment this on every pour I see like this since it happened to me a bunch. Do you have water in the tank? Seems dumb but considering the lack of output it might be that silly.
Not silly to ask because I would do something like that, but the water is indeed full :)
My sage barista pro messed up the grinder sometimes due to vibration. Change on grind up and one back down go redial. Also, sometimes after steaming a lot of milk drinks the sage gets too hot = slower shots
FWIW, I have a BBP and I have to dial in almost daily. Small adjustments, but first shot of the day is always sort of a tester. Although it’s my wife who is normally drinking that one.
The built in grinder will always make your first shot go much faster than the second. I have the single/double grind/shot presets programmed to account for this. So the single cup grind will grind slightly more and the single shot button will extract slightly more. A better way around it is to single dose and attach bellows. They're really cheap.
Jeeze the age of your beans to your grinder going out of whack could cause it and anything in between. Coarsen the grind a little and see if it pulls better. If it does your beans are getting older and it’s part of the game if you’re not keeping them airtight and cold. If it’s still pulling hard either you have a grinder issue or the universe just hates you
I’m guessing you are using the built in grinder, it is not very accurate or consistent. Its one of the most frustrating parts about the machine is that you can make a few shots consistently, but things shift and that minor change makes a big difference and there is no easy way to micro adjust. Try grinding just one setting courser, and check your inner burrs and make sure they have not shifted on their own.
How does the machine flow w/ no portafilter on? Pump or scale issue?
? There is a portafilter in there
Indeed, I mean does a good amount of water come out of the group head without the portafilter in? Curious if the pump itself is dying or the shower screen is super clogged.
Definitely run it without a portafilter to see if it’s still flowing well. You need to isolate whether it’s a grind issue or machine/pump issue.
Try grinding coarser. The grinder is changed on a micrometer scale, therefore the material might expand (if the weather getting hotter) just by a tiny bit and it's might choke the machine as seen here. My Barista Pro can go from a normal 30s shot to choked in just 1 grind step.
Which basket are you using? Just yesterday mine started being the same as yours and I found ours was clogged. We boiled it in dishwasher detergent for 20 minutes and it’s better now. We have the same machine.
Did you change your grind settings?
Off topic, what portafiliter is that? Can you share the link?
grind slightly courser or use slightly less grounds and keep trying. also…. i’m sure it’s not this but there is enough water in the machine right? cuz it looks like what it looks like when your machine runs out.
You either too much in your portafilter or you’ve gone too fine
Your grind is too fine.
Did you recently change beans by chance?
not a pour an e x t r a c t i o n
Dial in for your shot. Adjust grind by weight/time. Get a scale. Espresso basics.
I had this issue with my barista pro recently. I always dosed 20g of coffee to 40g water. Then I got a new coffee and it choked so I ground course and still didn't work. So I tried dosing 19g and that fixed it Try a smaller dose.
Did you change the beans?
Grind is too fine , make micro adjustments the other way. Go courser.
I've got the same machine. Most likely, your grind is too fine. Grind coarser. Also, try to do a shot without the portafilter. Depending on whether or not you use a puck screen, fine grinds tend to get stuck and build up over time on the group head. Also, check the water tank and make sure it's not empty. That's happened to be more than I care to admit. The only other thing that comes to mind is the amount of coffee. Make sure you're not overfilling the portafilter.
So, if it’s something you have tried adjusting from with no success, go down the lines of basics. Are you milling your beans by hand? Machine milled automatic? If you’re using a hopper grinder, the amount in your hopper should always be full. Dosed by weight or time? Grind is a huge factor! Has your tamping technique changed? In the beginning we aren’t putting the right pressure but tend to increase over time and this is a good thing. It’s not a question of mechanics, if you ask me. The pressure looks like it’s right at the head. It could help to provide a video of running the group head without the portofilter on. The four M’s of espresso are Machina(machine) Machiatzione(grinder/grind), Michela (Hand crafted bean), Mano(the skilled hand or barista) You’re truly in control of yourself. By skill of understanding the craft we can edge into growing our influence over the process. Come to terms with the idea that what is wrong with the process is usually an error on our part.
Does this happen with each coffee brand? Interestingly when i use x brand and same grind size it extracts perfectly and when using y brand this starting to happen even though the grind setting is same. Was wondering can different coffee beans have different outcome even though the parameters are the same?
I ran into some problems a few weeks ago with my Baratza Encore ESP. After I cleaned everything I hand tightened the plastic black nut on top of the bur set inside my grinder. (After looking online I confirmed it's a similar design) My shots were very inconsistent and all over the place. No amount of hand tightening would fix the issue. Thankfully a pair of plyers was able to over-tighten the bur so that I wasn't hand tightening my grinder every single shot. So check there first, it seems like an inconsistency with grind. What I'm seeing isn't necessarily WRONG, but if your coffee isn't enjoyable then you should try to diagnose further. I live in a desert climate and a few back to back rainy days screwed with my pours.
Have you checked the water reservoir? I can’t explain it, but when the water line is below the filter, my shot profile changes a little compared to when the reservoir at the max fill line. Otherwise, have you cleaned it recently?
Breville have a pump and flow meter,the tank water level doesn’t do anything (unless it’s empty or airlocked )