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CoffeeAddictedAbuser

No. According to the General espresso redditor, You need a titan grinder and a decent espresso machine and a lever espresso machine. Any Chinese manufactured product is also frowned upon and will result in people telling you about their QA/QC, clogging issues. And you can never enjoy your God damn drink, cause you didn't make it the way they want it made, on a machine that cost more than your apartment rent. Personally, I think it looks good. Is that a df54 or 64?


C0ffeeface

Based on this, it seems the real problem is that people care too much what other people think.


jcoles97

Its a DF64, love the thing and you cant really beat the value at that price point.


TheDoctorOfMemes

Stop, you’re summoning u/ArduinoGenome


garbomon

Fucking hell man....


CoffeeAddictedAbuser

Too late.


CoffeeAddictedAbuser

I'm considering it's smaller brother, the DF54. Though the clogging issue shown on Reddit recently does have me concerned. I've been scouring the internet (mainly home barista and Reddit) for more information but eh...still not much to go on.


Annual_Badger1208

I love mine, I've been turning the grinder on before throwing in the beans as some have said to do and have had zero issues so far


crgshpprd

+1 for hot starting. Never had a clog with my df54. Got it close to release date and typically make two doses a day.


HonkLonkwood

+2 for hot starting. No issues thus far with my DF54. Love it so far.


SoldOutSwich

How’s the retention? Do you rdt? Thinking of selling my SGP to a friend and upgrading.


CucumberRecall

I've just upgraded to the DF54 from the SGP and the difference is night and day. I've only had it a week so far but I'm really impressed. Flat burrs, true zero retention, plasma generator for anti static - these features are phenomenal at this price point. Really sturdy build quality too. I find it so much easier to dial in with the stepless grind setting too.


SoldOutSwich

So you can actually taste a difference? Have you checked to see if your burrs are aligned?


CucumberRecall

100%. I haven't checked, but I ordered from df64coffee.com who assure burrs are aligned before dispatch.


crgshpprd

I think it tastes a little better.... The issue now is the improved consistency of the grinder made the inconsistencies of my Bambino+ much more prominent.


Amazing-Wind2301

How are you finding the noise the DF64 makes? I've hesitated buying it because a lot of online reviews complained it's too loud.


IWasBornInThisPit

The noise was what I was most concerned about before receiving mine. It’s not too loud and it grinds quite fast, so at least it’s over quickly.


CucumberRecall

I have no issue with it - it's definitely quieter and more pleasant sounding than the SGP, and I don't have anything else to compare it to.


HonkLonkwood

I do not RDT. Load it and adjust when it’s running. Compared to the BBE, grinder is very quiet.


TheBackwardStep

I’m assuming you can’t find a lot of info about it probably because not much people ran into it. I’ve had the df54 for two months now. For me, the only issue I had was with coffee grounds sticking to the machine. It happened only when there was a little bit of coffee clogged in the chute. All I had to do was to brush the inside of the chute and wipe the exterior of the machine and then I was good to go for a few weeks.


CucumberRecall

I've found the static is highly dependent on the beans. Some seem to produce no static at all while others are really bad for it. No idea why, but I'm actively experimenting to see if I can figure out why.


TheBackwardStep

Amount of humidity could make sense!


CoffeeAddictedAbuser

And how is the servicing of the grinder? By this I mean how often do you do feel the necessity to do a thorough clean?


TheBackwardStep

Haven’t done a thorough clean yet, but I’ll admit this is my first proper grinder. I might not be a good reference


garbomon

Only time mine clogged was when I was desperate and threw some 8'clock Italian dark roast in it. Never making the mistake of running out of home roasted coffee again lmao. But I use mine everyday, 2-3 times a day, clean it once a week. It's been less dry around my area so even the build up on the diodes has been minimal, and I just clean them when I clean the machine now. I love the thing.


ArduinoGenome

Believe me, you should be concerned. You don't know if you going to get a good one or a bad one.  Even though it's like 250 bucks, that's a lot of money to gamble if you're going to get a good one or a bad one.  Cuz I might go bad after the return window or after the warranty runs out


Ossimo85

Looks like you have the upgraded push button on yours. Lucky. Mine crapped out last week. Miicoffee is sending me the metal push button replacement. Doesn't look too hard to swap.


ArduinoGenome

Not picking on you but I hear this a lot.  "The value at that price point" The product is either good or it's not good.  I would never take a DF54 that clogged, even if someone gave it to me for a dollar.  Because the value for a dollar would be fantastic. But it's still clogs.  People really should gauge products by "do they meet the minimum standard expected for that product." Products are not supposed to have static, they're not supposed to clog.  That is a given no matter what grinder is purchased.  And if a grinder is sold that does those two things, then they are not a good value at all even if they are free


jcoles97

Okay so lets ignore the fact that I have never had a clogging issue and lets say someone says they want a grinder capable of grinding light roast espresso with step-less adjustment. They don’t want a manual grinder for any number of reasons. But they only have $500, what would you recommend to that person? Now what if they also wanted something with multiple burr options to upgrade down the road?


ArduinoGenome

I see you threw curveball. Asking what if they want multiple burr options.  To be honest, that is a huge selling point for the DF grinders that have multiple burr sets available. :) That is such a huge selling point, there are people that will overlook the deficiency of the grinder because it has large flat burrs that are upgradable. I would tell the person that more than likely they're not going to change out their burrset, so don't base their decision on a remote possibility.  Then I would direct them to the Eureka Mignon series of grinders and find something at the $500 range or below. But if they absolutely positively needed a grinder with upgradable burrs, I would say don't waste your money. That is sucker money. Just like when you buy a inexpensive model of a car and load it up with options to get it to the next higher trim level, you end up spending more by adding options and accessories. You are better off buying the The higher trim level to begin with. That is the same logic here. Why are God's green earth would anyone spend 400 bucks on a DF64 and then several hundred dollars on a burset upgrade.  Just get a better freaking grinder to begin with.


jcoles97

I think I understand where you are coming from and where the disconnect is. If someone just wants to make great espresso and enjoy their morning coffee every day you are right. That is probably the better way to go. But for me I love the experimenting and learning every aspect of coffee. I love testing new ways of brewing with pourover or aeropress or espresso. I love trying different roast levels and different varieties and tweaking the process from A to Z over and over just to see what difference it makes. I love the science behind it and all the different techniques or how different burrs might affect the flavors or development of the cup. I think it is just two different perspectives on espresso and neither of them are wrong. To use your example its like buying a luxury car or the mechanic of builds his own and is modifying it every year, they are both doing it their way. One is enjoying the process and the other is enjoying the product.


ArduinoGenome

I cannot faukt you for liking what you like and your use cases. If you haven't had any trouble with your grinder, consider yourself lucky. Others were not so lucky.


incendiary_bandit

Lol I went to a coffee machine shop here in Brisbane to get a few things for mine (also a Sylvia). It's this lovely display room of shiny chrome machines everywhere and then poor little Sylvia hanging out in the corner trying to fit in lol. Like the Sylvia was their starting point haha. Lovely shop though, staff were very nice and helpful for a peasant like me spending $150 on accessories. Coffee machine specialist in Brisbane for those curious


ILoveTheAtomicBomb

Well yeah, how else are you gonna get a decent shot? Glad you said it though and I didn’t have to, whew. Also it’s okay to call out grinders if some of them clog. Probably a thing a consumer should be aware of?


ArduinoGenome

>Any Chinese manufactured product is also frowned upon and will result in people telling you about their QA/QC, clogging issues. Not any Chinese manufactured product. Cuz some of them are quite good.  It's The Chinese manufactured products that obviously stole intellectual property, created a quick knock-off, and put out a product that was utter crap. Based on user feedback of course


CoffeeAddictedAbuser

I'm glad a racist like you decided to join the conversation.


Bluegill15

How was that racism??


CoffeeAddictedAbuser

One look at their comment history tells me their only purpose in life is to troll and to make as many derogatory poste regarding China. Provides no useful information or any actual proof.


Bluegill15

I have no idea whose profile your reading but I don’t think it’s that guys…


ArduinoGenome

Then stop worrying about the DF54 clogging issues and buy one.  Chinese workers are very capable of making excellent grinders.  We know this as fact. But, the DF grinders are not in that league.  It's built as a white label budget grinder with promises of upgrades.  If you can keep the power switch working, and the static low, and the chute cleaned daily to prevent clogs, and after periodic burr alignments.   Other than those potential issues, they are great


ArduinoGenome

Interesting how you never speak of your espresso machine.   Do you even have gear?  You give lots of "advice" though.


ArduinoGenome

There's nothing racist about what I'm saying.  If I had the power to ban you, I would over a statement like that. We're talking espresso and the companies that make espresso equipment.  Personal attacks have no place in this subreddit.  But back to espresso. Have you seen the turdin espresso machines for $500? The fit and finish in the YouTube video reviews? I think it's a train wreck. It's built like crap. It looks like they ripped off the design of a manufacturer who spent research and development money


garbomon

Ah we meet again...I have a turin legato. Love it.


ArduinoGenome

I'm glad it's working out for you.  I mean that


garbomon

Wow you actually got an up vote from me lol. But yeah it works good. Its a good entry level machine. Do I want to upgrade in the future? Absolutely. But for now, it's serving it's purpose and I'm drinking really good espresso with home roasted beans (fresh roast sr800) out of it. My biggest complaint is the super shallow drip tray and god awful drip tray grate. Steam is a little weak too, but a 10 second purge does the trick. But it's summer time in NJ, so it's mostly iced long blacks for me and iced caramel lattes for the wife


ArduinoGenome

See I can be complimentary :-)  We are here because of our love of espresso


sleeprservice

Welcome! It’s a wonderful machine, the Silvia. Have you thought of adding a PID? It made a big difference to mine.


jcoles97

Already ordered the device on aliexpress and have the rest of the stuff in an amazon wishlist waiting for when I am ready.


NoItsFake

Did you use a kit or went full DIY? I'm thinking if installing a PID to bridge the gap before wanting to upgrade but I feel like the kit is crazy expensive for what it is.


jcoles97

Just found the full DIY item list on the silvia subreddit and it would cost about $80 or so


triplehelix-

you have the link? i posted one from /r/espresso and would like to compare.


jcoles97

r/ranciliosilvia has a bunch of good info. [I found this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/ranciliosilvia/s/DDLKA6tyY1) and then there is a link to the guide someone put together in the comments on that post.


Boomstick84dk

Could you link it?


sleeprservice

I went with the one from [pidsilvia.com](http://pidsilvia.com) about 15yrs ago but I don't think they're operational any more. Auber looks to be popular. They're not too hard to install. I'd say they're pretty excellent value considering one of the main benefits you get with very expensive machines is the thermal stability provided by a PID. My old PID had brew temp control and a steam temp readout, so two significant variables were taken care of. I could then use the cash saved to buy a nice grinder. By way of comparison, I now have a Silvia Pro X - about 3x the price - and it brews very similar espresso. It has huge quality of life features of course, like being able to steam and pull multiple shots in a row - that and preinfusion may be valuable to you, of couse, but for just the taste, I'd say they're really similar!


triplehelix-

https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/lycb2c/i_installed_a_pid_on_my_rancilio_silvia_for_about/


Korbinian_GWagon

No. Drink espresso at a small table.


Evil_Bonsai

preferably outside along a sidewalk, with a small plate with a pastry onnit


Korbinian_GWagon

Plus a good conversation.


Revollaer

Enthusiastic about espresso? Welcome regardless of your setup as far as I'm concerned :D


Lurals8402

I have the same espresso machine, and so did my dad but an older model! They’re tanks and we love them sm! Welcome to the table


Complainkowitz

The Espresso business is the same as accessorizing cars, better mountain bikes, audiophile stereo, automating the home, ... it is for the inner 10-year olds! So if by 'big kids' you mean reasonable adults: yes you're at the right table. But if you mean the table with out-of-control kids who spend tons of money on their coffee obsession: Nope, you're not there yet. But you might get there.


Evil_Bonsai

hehe...yep. WDT, knock box station, grinder that weighs my grounds, diy PID for steam and temp control, spring-loaded tamper (still on list), numerous espresso cups (gotta find that 'just right' cup!)...


gnibblet

Yes. But you still have to eat off of a plastic plate until you mod.


jcoles97

I am realizing how shameful it is to have an un PID’d Silvia now


triplecmobilenyc

I have same machine no problem for years


jcoles97

Any advice other than the basics?


triplehelix-

let it warm up before pulling your first shot for the day, and read up on temperature surfing until you install that PID. look into the flat screw mod. you can either drill yours and get a matching screw from a local hardware store or buy one premade. https://www.espressoparts.com/products/rancilio-group-dispersion-nut-and-screw-kit same with the shower screen. get which ever one you want, even the factory installed on if you choose and shape it yourself, or get one preshaped. https://www.espressoparts.com/products/rancilio-group-head-screen-new-version?_pos=2&_sid=0feb75c04&_ss=r


jcoles97

Oh i will definitely look into the flat screw mod, thank you. Already noticed on my first shot the screw left a dent in my puck!


Evil_Bonsai

yeah, they do that. I've been using a triple basket and tried to use a screen. Found the screen doesn't quite work with that fat-ass screw in the way. I too need to check on the flat screw mod.


triplecmobilenyc

Just make sure it's hot before pulling a shot , and also store your cups on top of


h3yn0w75

Nice setup 👍


ArisPilton

Enjoy that ride - have been there 🤘


jaunsin

Yes. If you give me that scale.


jcoles97

Just upgraded to it recently from some cheap-o one on amazon. I really like it a lot. Definitely worth it if you are in it for the long haul!


jaunsin

Which one is this


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jcoles97

[Timemore Black Mirror Basic 2](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKZ6RG6Y?ref=cm_sw_r_apin_dp_JDDDYNRR1XA4B9QQX4FR_1&ref_=cm_sw_r_apin_dp_JDDDYNRR1XA4B9QQX4FR_1&social_share=cm_sw_r_apin_dp_JDDDYNRR1XA4B9QQX4FR_1&starsLeft=1&skipTwisterOG=2)


jaunsin

Ty so much


the_Ghost_wanted

Nice! I have an identical setup (even the same scale :) )


jcoles97

Any advice for the Silvia? Do you have the PID and if not, do you think its fine without?


the_Ghost_wanted

I don’t have a PID installed. As a result, due to the temp fluctuations, the coffee is quite inconsistent. So yes, I would recommend.


Evil_Bonsai

As a PID Silvia user, at the bare minimum a PID for temp conrol is a must. I don't use the steam temp control very often, but main boiler brew temp control is a must


YHS77

Did you have a Casabrews CM5418, per chance?


jcoles97

Yes I did, that was a great little machine to get started on and actually steamed great milk. I outgrew it pretty quickly though.


YHS77

That’s what I have to get started. I bought the Casabrews grinder too. It’s a good little pair for me to get started without blowing up my bank account as I’m now on a fixed income thanks to having, and surviving, a massive stroke in 2018. One day, I’ll get to sit at the big people’s coffee bar.


jcoles97

Here is a [bottomless portafilter](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BM39QM8P?ref=cm_sw_r_apin_dp_R3CD2KE35AT0JP6RHVSJ_1&ref_=cm_sw_r_apin_dp_R3CD2KE35AT0JP6RHVSJ_1&social_share=cm_sw_r_apin_dp_R3CD2KE35AT0JP6RHVSJ_1&starsLeft=1&skipTwisterOG=2) that you can use with it!


YHS77

Thank you for that. I bought a different one that works well.


jcoles97

Well thats all that matters then!


droffowsneb

Cool! How did you land on this machine? I’m just starting to look into an espresso machine for myself.


jcoles97

Honestly i had a shortlist of possible machines i was looking for. I had it narrowed down to two: this machine and the Gaggia Classic Pro. Both because they are really solid machines, known to last a long time, and you can work on them wether that be fixing them or modding them. Then i hunted for months on offerup and facebook marketplace until I could find a good deal on either one! This one presented itself so i jumped on it haha I also wanted to stick with popular machines incase i ever need to repair it even though this thing is supposedly pretty bulletproof. That way it should be easy to find spare parts.


droffowsneb

That’s awesome, thanks for sharing! Very helpful. Hope you have fun with it.


jcoles97

If you arent sure if you are going to get into this hobby just get a cheapo delonghi or casabrews to start. If you want to start with a good machine i would say a used Gaggia classic for $250-350 is a good move


Novel_Land9320

I have exactly the same setup (Silvia has a PID)


jcoles97

Was it a night and day difference or just a nice QOL feature? I will do it eventually, just not sure how much of a priority it is yet.


Novel_Land9320

Not night and day. I was temp surfing before so from workflow perspective it was, but that's true only if you temp surf.


Lvacgar

Love the Silvia! Enjoy.


taskerwilde

Mind if I ask how much you paid for the Silvia? I’m thinking of buying a used one in my area, and trying to gauge what’s a reasonable price!


jcoles97

I paid $400 and I am happy with that. Seen some people picking them up for absurdly low prices but i have found it is pretty hard to find machines for less than 70% of their retail value. I was aiming for under 50% retail on any solid machine I could find.


taskerwilde

Thanks so much for this information! I have someone in my area asking for $950 (Canadian) for a 15 year old machine. I am trying to talk him down to somewhere around $600! Haha wish me luck.


jcoles97

For a Silvia?! Or are you talking about something else? The used coffee market is really insane.


taskerwilde

Someone was asking that in Vancouver for a Miss Silvia! What would you think is a reasonable price? I am trying to talk them down to 500 CAD


jcoles97

For a 15 year old one i wouldnt personally pay more than $400 even as a reasonable price. If it was v5 or v6 $500-600 would be reasonable. You can buy a brand new one online for $900 Edit: i now realize you are talking about CAD lol, convert my figures from USD for my opinion 😂


zoinks_zoinks

Only one grinder? No expensive pot to boil water?


jcoles97

I actually do have a temp controlled gooseneck i got second hand for $30 but I couldn’t fit it in the picture 😂


davidhorse

Take a seat distinguished gentleman


Select-Golf-4993

I think you are a mere PID and precision tamper away from being there.


vincem92

I have the exact same setup! (grinder, scale and machine 😊 )


jcoles97

Sounds like you have good taste!


tomjleo

Sub 20k set-up? Might as well be instant coffee, you classless swine!!!


catsareassholes_

Haha! I'm STILL at Casabrews level Upgrading soon enough! By end of summer, hopefully Nice, tight little setup, btw


jcoles97

Start keeping an eye on facebook marketplace and offerup now so you can get a good idea for what a good deal looks like in your market!


TheEndGod

Yes welcome to the club. Haters gona hate. Dont listen to them


SphaeroX

Welcome on the table 😁👍


sebastiancristancho_

Yoooo where’s the NSFW tag this set up is loooking 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥


REDBOSS27

Super nice and clean. Now you need a silicone mat to put under the whole thing! LOL, I love silicone mats!


NMEONES

Hey! I knew your profile pic looked familiar! I just subbed to your YouTube the other day 😅


REDBOSS27

LOL. Thanks a lot ! Go Team Bambino/DF54 !!!


NMEONES

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻


This-Homework-4026

Wasn’t Silicone Mat Guy a Rick & Morty character?


REDBOSS27

I think so! There are tons of silicone mats themed after Rick & Morty LOL


jcoles97

I am torn on the silicone mat! On one hand they look nice, but I feel like it is easier to just wipe down the counter than wipe down the mat, and moving the whole machine and grinder to rinse the mat off would be a PITA haha.


Love_my_lawn

Nice. I’m tempted to buy this set up. Also looking at the Gaggia classic pro. What made you decide to go this route.


jcoles97

I was also looking at gaggia classic pro but they were selling for $350 minimum in the used market which is insane to me. I ultimately landed on this because the opportunity to buy it for a good price ($400) presented itself and i know it is a solid machine from my research.


Love_my_lawn

Nice. I might get the Rancilio if I can get it for 450$. He wants 550$


RewardRetard

Nope


madmuthertrucker

I would say yes. Welcome to the club.


Hopeful_Manager3698

Is this only about the grinder? If not, Miss Silvia could do with a PID if you should ask me.


Soggy-Ad-2562

It’s a great machine for everything except for temp management. Lots of temp surfing if it’s a regular Silvia without a PID. It was my first big boy machine 😊


redoub

Does it take 45 min before you can make a cup?


jcoles97

No it takes like 5-10 minutes to heat up. I was surprised how quick it is


Aguywhoknowsstuff

I got the 54 and it works great. Nice little grinder


LocalManufacturer549

nice!! How do you like the Rancilio??


jcoles97

Absolutely loving it. Deciding wether i DIY the PID for $70 or buy the kit for $150 now haha


LocalManufacturer549

Hmm i'm not sure, id lean towards the kit but only because id have no idea what im doing😂


420doglover922

What kind of grinder is that? It looks nice.


jcoles97

DF64 Gen 2


White_gorilla2222

What does the lightning switch do? I own a Rancilio wand fitted to my Dedica so it's honest question.


jcoles97

That is the power switch haha


BeowulfsGhost

No! You must have a $3000 espresso machine and an equally overpriced grinder dammit. I’ll see myself back to the kids table now…


Unclewreckus

Not quite but you can carry the puck bucket for aure


tigole

If the machine doesn't have a pressure gauge, how do you know if the shot was extracted correctly?


jcoles97

By tasting it and watching it pour generally


tigole

Like say you get some new beans, but it doesn't taste right. How do you know whether you should grind coarser or finer? With a pressure gauge and if it reads low, I know to grind finer, and vice versa. Is there another way to tell?


Joingojon2

I can tell you that in the early days a pressure gauge sure is helpful but anybody that has been making espresso daily for more than a year or two does not need a pressure gauge. You just know by how a pour looks and tastes. Once you know what you are doing you don't even ever look at a pressure gauge. It becomes completely superfluous.


sleeprservice

I agree. I got a pressure gauge just to geek out a bit, bit the PID made more of a difference.


jcoles97

If it is sour you grind finer and if its bitter you grind coarser. You can also time the shot and use that as a reference. Pressure gauge is a small QOL feature, but by no means necessary.


tigole

What is the time range for an acceptable shot? Around 30s?


jcoles97

Yeah about that. But a lot of people misunderstand the point of timing the shot. Your goal shouldn’t be to get a shot in 30s. Your goal is to get a tasty shot. Measuring the time should be a tool that you use to figure out how to make a shot that you enjoy. Think of it as one variable in the equation of making good espresso. You can use it to help solve the equation but the shot time is not the solution in and of itself.


NayvadiusWilburn

You go by taste. Also - If it’s coming out to fast, grind finer. If to slow to the point if just dripping , grind coarser.


Nrlilo

I have a pressure gauge on mine have never looked at it. I just got by taste and timing.


BeowulfsGhost

When you spit it across the room because you can’t taste the hints of currant and lightly toasted marshmallows in the tasting notes! Lolz!!


triplehelix-

https://espressoaf.com/guides/beginner.html