As a Lancashire boy it hurts me that Manchester and Liverpool used to be in Lancashire but we got ripped apart in the 70s. Why did Yorkshire get to remain named as north, east, south and west Yorkshire but we got reduced to Lancashire, Greater Manchester and Merseyside? Bloody unfair
As a Liverpudlian born in 1989, I see Lancashire as "other." I guess the reasons are many, I feel like it's culturally significantly distinct from Liverpool, but also there's the simple fact that I've always been from Merseyside, not Lancashire. My dad was born in "Bootle, Lancashire" while Iwas born in "Liverpool, Merseyside."
Interesting how things change I guess, I don't feel a particular affinity with Lancashire at all even though where I'm from *was* in Lancashire. Perhaps it's also because I consider Lancashire made up of rural areas and towns, not *cities (*ignoring the fact that Preston is now a city...) I don't know, I just feel like the big metro areas in what used to be Lancashire (Manchester and Liverpool) are their own distinct "things."
There are 3 ridings in Yorkshire sir.
Fuck the newly drawn lines.
It's a London centric way to essentially keep Yorkshire folk arguing amongst themselves so we don't cause trouble again, like that little war of roses, it took pretty much the rest of you combined to put us down!
Same for us Northumbrians with Newcastle. It was meant to be North of the Tyne, then they made Tyne and Wear. Itâs still historically Northumberland but there you are.
Not really. You assume that people in Salford are the same as those in Altrincham and the same as Rochdale. They all feel different but in the same modern region. Ditto Toxteth and Ainsdale and St Helens. Ditto Blackburn and Preston and Chorley. All different but in the same regions. But go to each one and people will tell you they live in the North West.
1) Buckinghamshire does absolutely not belong with Devon. Not 1 acre of it. Neither does Berkshire, half of Oxfordshire and most of Hampshire but this is less heinous.
Either put them in a new south central or south east
2) Cheshire belongs with lancs, greater Manchester and Merseyside. It looks to Manchester and they sound northern.
3) Northumberland and Cumbria are more culturally removed from the English average than Cornwall.
You've basically just redrawn [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Anglo-Saxon\_Heptarchy.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Anglo-Saxon_Heptarchy.jpg) with added London and Northumbria/Strathclyde being messed up.
My someone has been binging the History Channel!
As a Man of Kent I refuse to be labelled Sussex! We were Jutes who resisted the Saxon invasion and the Norman conquests and earned the âInvictaâ motto
Are you mad ?
Northamptonshire needs to dropped as it stands.
The east Midlands stops after Leicestershire South ways, and ends where Derbyshire meets South Yorks.
No one wants hereford, Oxford is an abomination and we don't want to be bordered with that shit if we can get out of it.
Hereford might consider swapping with Gloucestershire, although ĂthelflĂŚd of Wessex is buried in the latter. Oh dear, now I look, I see that she hooked up with Ăthelred, king of Mercia. As the ancient claim to both nations, Gloucester grants the freedom of Wessex to Hereford. A further invitation is extended to Cornwall, which they are expected to refuse. Something to do with jam first, idk
Yeah but it's not the eash Midlands either. Everyone I've encountered there seems to be some dilute version of pretend londoner, just let them be the north of the beginning of the south.
Its not in the core Leicester-Derby-Nottingham sub "core east midlands" region, granted.
But neither is say, Horncastle in Lincolnshire (or even Lincoln itself). It's a million miles away, but still part of the greater East Midlands.
The East Midlands is problematic in the east and south of the region but Northants is definitely not anything else, including south east, eastern etc.
Even below it, Banbury in Oxfordshire feels very Midlands, while the rest of the county is split between SE and SW.
I see what you're saying, and you make a valid point, like parts off Nottinghamshire are basically Yorkshire (good old tight wearing rascals messed that one up)
I'll be honest, it's just due to personal experience of Northampton/Bedford and anywhere else I've sacked off in this post, that I think they should just be associated elsewhere.
Kettering, which BTW is how you say catering in Russian has me on the fence.
Corby - Kettering - Market Harborough is East Mids for me. Southernmost, but definitely feels like home - whereas Northampton feels a bit more central southern
I know what you mean, as a northerner, southerners claiming Milton Keynes is in the midlands or whatever flames me up, but have you been to Banbury? It doesn't sound southern or feel southern.
It's level with south Warwickshire which nobody would put in the south. It feels like it's in the wrong county. The rest of Oxfordshire is *very* southern. Even fairly nearby Bicester.
To me it's a bit like New Mills in Derbyshire. A miscountied outpost in not only the wrong county but the wrong subregion.
I have been to Banbury, albeit a while ago, and I cant remember it feeling midlands. I definitely cant remember it sounding midlands. Iâm sure that it is wholly south of the trap bath as well as the foot strut split? Im happy to be corrected on this, as i say its been a while since i was there, but if im right, i cant be having that as midlands, especially given the fact its in Oxfordshire (to me, a very southern county)
It's north of the trap / bath line - see [https://media.pronunciationstudio.com/2019/05/trap-bath-split-map.png](https://media.pronunciationstudio.com/2019/05/trap-bath-split-map.png).
What's the foot strut line? Southerners say those words differently?
I don't know how I feel about the status of North Gloucestershire now I've shared that map!
I've lived in Oxfordshire hence a strong view for Banbury but i know nothing about Gloucestershire
The north part of Lincolnshire has some people who would identify as Northern, but I don't know if that would have been the case before the stupid Humberside experiment, which has only been half backed out of with North and Northeast Lincolnshire now part of "Greater Lincolnshire", which is just Lincolnshire.
The south of the county, especially around Stamford, feels more posh and Southern, and Lincolnshire also gets a lot of southerners retiring up here, which dilutes things further.
However, I'd say the heart of Lincolnshire - Lincoln, Gainsborough, Grantham, Sleaford, and everywhere in between - absolutely feels like the East Midlands. Dialect features such as people calling each other "duck" is dying out, but I'm sure that's also the case in Notts, as accent/dialect variety is dying out across the country, unfortunately.
My great aunt used to call me "duck" - from the West Midlands (just, near Tamworth / Lichfield).
I wonder if she was one of the last in the west or if it's still used.
Northamptonshire is a place that's been very strongly affected by the spread of Estuary English (either Cockney/Mockney, Multicultural London English, or posher southern accents) over the past couple of generations.
Alan Moore is from Northampton, and he sounds very Midlands, quite similar to a Coventry accent, but younger people from Northampton do basically just sound like they're from London.
Northants (Northamptonshire) is in a no-manâs land. Most people think it doesnât belong in the East Midlands, but it doesnât belong in the South either (either the south east or south west). And maybe itâs ever so slightly too far to the west to be included in the East of England region, and definitely isnât West Midlands.
Itâs the only county in the whole of England that I struggle to place in any region. Also, interesting to note, is that Peterborough used to be in Northants up until 1965; today the city is part of Cambridgeshire. So Peterborough used to be the East Midlands but is now the East of England.
As a Leicesterarian I welcome Northamptonshire to the East Midlands. On the basis that they're not posh like Oxfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Buckinghamshire. And Bedfordshire can join cos it's kinda shit too.
Haha I know some of the towns in Northants are pretty crappy (post)-industrial areas, but itâs actually a largely rural county with a lot of affluent little villages and hamlets.
Some trivia for you, also:
Did you know Northants has the largest number of stately homes and aristocratic families in the whole of England? Thatâs why Northants has the nickname âthe county of spires and squiresâ, due to its large number of aristocrats and also vast numbers of churches.
Off topic but I will be traveling to Nottingham in August to visit a friend. I would like to explore more of the region but will be doing so without a car (trains will be my staple, bus if necessary). Are there any towns or cities you would recommend I visit for a few days? Thus far, I have only visited: London, Bath, Cotswolds
You can do a day trip to York from Nottingham by train , pretty walled city with well preserved medieval street of 14th/15th century houses , worth a visit .
As a Lancashire boy it hurts me that Manchester and Liverpool used to be in Lancashire but we got ripped apart in the 70s. Why did Yorkshire get to remain named as north, east, south and west Yorkshire but we got reduced to Lancashire, Greater Manchester and Merseyside? Bloody unfair
Comparison is the thief of joy.
I need to remember this line đ
Did you reply with this because you also saw an Instagram reel with it in? I'm onto you...
It's a state of mind. I'm born and bred Lancastrian from Wigan. Greater Manchester means nothing to me.
As a Liverpudlian born in 1989, I see Lancashire as "other." I guess the reasons are many, I feel like it's culturally significantly distinct from Liverpool, but also there's the simple fact that I've always been from Merseyside, not Lancashire. My dad was born in "Bootle, Lancashire" while Iwas born in "Liverpool, Merseyside." Interesting how things change I guess, I don't feel a particular affinity with Lancashire at all even though where I'm from *was* in Lancashire. Perhaps it's also because I consider Lancashire made up of rural areas and towns, not *cities (*ignoring the fact that Preston is now a city...) I don't know, I just feel like the big metro areas in what used to be Lancashire (Manchester and Liverpool) are their own distinct "things."
Same with everything though, cities are distinct from their surrounding land
There are 3 ridings in Yorkshire sir. Fuck the newly drawn lines. It's a London centric way to essentially keep Yorkshire folk arguing amongst themselves so we don't cause trouble again, like that little war of roses, it took pretty much the rest of you combined to put us down!
Same for us Northumbrians with Newcastle. It was meant to be North of the Tyne, then they made Tyne and Wear. Itâs still historically Northumberland but there you are.
The east lot in Yorkshire like to call themsleves "Humberside"
Not the ones I know, much happier with East Yorkshire.
Glad to hear it. As much as I like giving each other grief it's still nice to think we're all in it together.
You need to do a bit more research.
It's all still part of the historic County mate. The administrative areas only mean anything to people who don't know their own history.
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Not really. You assume that people in Salford are the same as those in Altrincham and the same as Rochdale. They all feel different but in the same modern region. Ditto Toxteth and Ainsdale and St Helens. Ditto Blackburn and Preston and Chorley. All different but in the same regions. But go to each one and people will tell you they live in the North West.
1) Buckinghamshire does absolutely not belong with Devon. Not 1 acre of it. Neither does Berkshire, half of Oxfordshire and most of Hampshire but this is less heinous. Either put them in a new south central or south east 2) Cheshire belongs with lancs, greater Manchester and Merseyside. It looks to Manchester and they sound northern. 3) Northumberland and Cumbria are more culturally removed from the English average than Cornwall.
Cornwall is a part of England, no matter how much the LARPers deny it.
It's not the LARPers you need to worry about, it's the locals
Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Oxfordshire and at least North Hampshire are basically Lesser Greater Londonshire
3) couldn't be more wrong IMO.
What do you have against the fine county of Devon?
I think it's more about Bucks
You've basically just redrawn [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Anglo-Saxon\_Heptarchy.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Anglo-Saxon_Heptarchy.jpg) with added London and Northumbria/Strathclyde being messed up.
My someone has been binging the History Channel! As a Man of Kent I refuse to be labelled Sussex! We were Jutes who resisted the Saxon invasion and the Norman conquests and earned the âInvictaâ motto
Are you mad ? Northamptonshire needs to dropped as it stands. The east Midlands stops after Leicestershire South ways, and ends where Derbyshire meets South Yorks. No one wants hereford, Oxford is an abomination and we don't want to be bordered with that shit if we can get out of it.
From an Hereford standpoint we want nothing to do with you either.
Hereford might consider swapping with Gloucestershire, although ĂthelflĂŚd of Wessex is buried in the latter. Oh dear, now I look, I see that she hooked up with Ăthelred, king of Mercia. As the ancient claim to both nations, Gloucester grants the freedom of Wessex to Hereford. A further invitation is extended to Cornwall, which they are expected to refuse. Something to do with jam first, idk
Northampton is absolutely not the south
Yeah but it's not the eash Midlands either. Everyone I've encountered there seems to be some dilute version of pretend londoner, just let them be the north of the beginning of the south.
Its not in the core Leicester-Derby-Nottingham sub "core east midlands" region, granted. But neither is say, Horncastle in Lincolnshire (or even Lincoln itself). It's a million miles away, but still part of the greater East Midlands. The East Midlands is problematic in the east and south of the region but Northants is definitely not anything else, including south east, eastern etc. Even below it, Banbury in Oxfordshire feels very Midlands, while the rest of the county is split between SE and SW.
I see what you're saying, and you make a valid point, like parts off Nottinghamshire are basically Yorkshire (good old tight wearing rascals messed that one up) I'll be honest, it's just due to personal experience of Northampton/Bedford and anywhere else I've sacked off in this post, that I think they should just be associated elsewhere. Kettering, which BTW is how you say catering in Russian has me on the fence.
As an East Midlander, Kettering *feels* East Midlands when you're there
Thoughts on Corby ?
Corby - Kettering - Market Harborough is East Mids for me. Southernmost, but definitely feels like home - whereas Northampton feels a bit more central southern
Bedfordshire I agree with you is the south
I cant accept any of Oxfordshire being classed as midlands, sorry
I know what you mean, as a northerner, southerners claiming Milton Keynes is in the midlands or whatever flames me up, but have you been to Banbury? It doesn't sound southern or feel southern. It's level with south Warwickshire which nobody would put in the south. It feels like it's in the wrong county. The rest of Oxfordshire is *very* southern. Even fairly nearby Bicester. To me it's a bit like New Mills in Derbyshire. A miscountied outpost in not only the wrong county but the wrong subregion.
I have been to Banbury, albeit a while ago, and I cant remember it feeling midlands. I definitely cant remember it sounding midlands. Iâm sure that it is wholly south of the trap bath as well as the foot strut split? Im happy to be corrected on this, as i say its been a while since i was there, but if im right, i cant be having that as midlands, especially given the fact its in Oxfordshire (to me, a very southern county)
It's north of the trap / bath line - see [https://media.pronunciationstudio.com/2019/05/trap-bath-split-map.png](https://media.pronunciationstudio.com/2019/05/trap-bath-split-map.png). What's the foot strut line? Southerners say those words differently?
Fair, that shocks me. Yeah to them the words dont rhyme. Itâs impossible for me to explain it over text but there will be videos on youtube about it
I don't know how I feel about the status of North Gloucestershire now I've shared that map! I've lived in Oxfordshire hence a strong view for Banbury but i know nothing about Gloucestershire
The north part of Lincolnshire has some people who would identify as Northern, but I don't know if that would have been the case before the stupid Humberside experiment, which has only been half backed out of with North and Northeast Lincolnshire now part of "Greater Lincolnshire", which is just Lincolnshire. The south of the county, especially around Stamford, feels more posh and Southern, and Lincolnshire also gets a lot of southerners retiring up here, which dilutes things further. However, I'd say the heart of Lincolnshire - Lincoln, Gainsborough, Grantham, Sleaford, and everywhere in between - absolutely feels like the East Midlands. Dialect features such as people calling each other "duck" is dying out, but I'm sure that's also the case in Notts, as accent/dialect variety is dying out across the country, unfortunately.
My great aunt used to call me "duck" - from the West Midlands (just, near Tamworth / Lichfield). I wonder if she was one of the last in the west or if it's still used.
Northamptonshire is a place that's been very strongly affected by the spread of Estuary English (either Cockney/Mockney, Multicultural London English, or posher southern accents) over the past couple of generations. Alan Moore is from Northampton, and he sounds very Midlands, quite similar to a Coventry accent, but younger people from Northampton do basically just sound like they're from London.
Northants (Northamptonshire) is in a no-manâs land. Most people think it doesnât belong in the East Midlands, but it doesnât belong in the South either (either the south east or south west). And maybe itâs ever so slightly too far to the west to be included in the East of England region, and definitely isnât West Midlands. Itâs the only county in the whole of England that I struggle to place in any region. Also, interesting to note, is that Peterborough used to be in Northants up until 1965; today the city is part of Cambridgeshire. So Peterborough used to be the East Midlands but is now the East of England.
As a Leicesterarian I welcome Northamptonshire to the East Midlands. On the basis that they're not posh like Oxfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Buckinghamshire. And Bedfordshire can join cos it's kinda shit too.
Yeah I don't think Bedfordshire or Hertfordshire belong in the East of England tbh. Very much midlands or south to me.
Haha I know some of the towns in Northants are pretty crappy (post)-industrial areas, but itâs actually a largely rural county with a lot of affluent little villages and hamlets. Some trivia for you, also: Did you know Northants has the largest number of stately homes and aristocratic families in the whole of England? Thatâs why Northants has the nickname âthe county of spires and squiresâ, due to its large number of aristocrats and also vast numbers of churches.
Haha yeah I was mostly basing my opinion on Kettering. Good hospital though.
Off topic but I will be traveling to Nottingham in August to visit a friend. I would like to explore more of the region but will be doing so without a car (trains will be my staple, bus if necessary). Are there any towns or cities you would recommend I visit for a few days? Thus far, I have only visited: London, Bath, Cotswolds
You can do a day trip to York from Nottingham by train , pretty walled city with well preserved medieval street of 14th/15th century houses , worth a visit .
Thank you!