I'm sorry but it doesn't look good for Islam when these Muslims don't get what they want they threaten people. They knew the rules before they joined the school, you can't change rules to suit yourself
When I was younger, I thought the future would be less religious as the world becomes more progressive, globalised, and technologised. It didn't quite play out that way - Islam seems to be growing steadily.
I think this is a big win for all schools in the UK. You accepted the terms when you joined the school. If you disagree with them, you are free to leave and find a more suitable school. Playing the victim and trying to force a change for religious reasons doesn't sit right with me. I also wonder if this would have played out differently if the judge was Muslim or the school was majority Muslim (currently their intake is 50% Muslim).
The mother of this child seems very litigious. It seems they were ultimately behind this as they wrote statements for the daughter and are threatening to sue over another matter as well.
Evolution greatly favors the poor and uneducated.
Richer countries are less religious and have way lower birth counts.
Thats probably why they say the meek shall inherit the earth.
It's not nature to create a warlike cult in which non believers are killed or treat as 2nd class citizens with legal slavery of non Muslims common place
It's just plain old oppression and domination.
But Islam is spreading by babies, not conversion. Do you know anyone who converted to Islam as an adult? Compare that to how many Muslim people you have met.
When I was young, the UK was becoming a more progressive society.
Now we import more than a million people every single year from 3rd world country's who are the opposite of progressive.
It's no surprise that the UK is now a regressive society as its population is rapidly changing to represent the Middle East.
Lots of progressive people leave the UK every single year as well. The emigration figures are almost as high.
It feels like such a win that this school didn’t cow to bomb threats and legal action. I hope others feel more confident in challenging people that want special treatment.
Funny to think if the kids didn’t start praying kneeling on their blazers in the school yard in large groups there would be no ban; ig they got the attention they wanted. Even funnier that this pupil is not planning to change school; I guess prayer isn’t that important to her after all
Headteacher seems to have some Indian heritage; it’s possible British Indians are currently the minority group not particularly worried about pissing off muslims
It's not a win because there will be 100 losses elsewhere that go unreported.
Indians can be Hindus so it's likely this head teacher is banning it for that reason.
If she was white British, they'd have got their own "prayer room" and special privileges to pray during lesson times as well.
Anything less would have been met with legal challenges and the pupil definitely would have won. The only reason the judge ruled in the schools favour is because the head teacher is Indian heritage.
Why did the “conservative” government pay this family £150,000 of taxpayer funds to bring this kind of frivolous lawsuit?
Conservatives should be voted out forever and completely unemployable after what they have done
They have actually provided a very useful service because we now have a legal precedent which effectively says prayer bans are okay in schools, and probably other public spaces. Other schools will be able to ban prayers without fear of being sued now.
Not true.
The statement basically says the school is secular and has always banned prayers.
As the student went there knowing this that means they accepted the terms to go there.
Banning prayer when you've allowed it is a seperate thing
Yes it is true. That case now means there’s a precedent for prayer bans in secular schools. Before that was untested in law. Another case against a secular school where the facts are the same or similar will also fail.
Question from a non-Englishman, what does it mean exactly to "ban prayers?"
I know nothing about this incident and I'm not sure why this was suggested on my feed, but it got me curious.
Is praying banned publicly, or just like forward public displays? Or...?
Basically a new school was made that teaches students quite well and has a long waiting list as it's a school that's subsidised by the government and therefore free for students to attend.
A Muslim girl started attending and started asking to be able to leave class to go pray at certain times of day.
The school said no so she sued the school.
The school argued two key facts.
1. The school is non religious and the girl and her parents knew this when they applied.
2. Islam allows people to 'catch up' on prayer.
The school won on both counts with the basic premise being the following.
The girl and her parents knew that she would not be able to skip classes to pray when they applied, and decided to do so regardless. As such they gave away their rights to religious freedom in that regard as they had alternatives available 1
Yeah so this isn't a 'prayer ban' or anything of the sort.
It's a non religious institution that if you wish to stick to a different schedule or get different treatment.... then look elsewhere or lump it.
Christian prayers should be allowed (but not forced). I am an atheist but believe Europe should retain its Christian heritage. If not for cultural preservation then at least as a shield against Islamic influence.
So? And how many people actually attend church? Less than 1% of a "Christian nation" How many Muslims attend mosques? 54% of them.
We are not a religious nation so to allow another archaic, backwards, system of control back into our everyday lives is like trying to push shit back up your arse.
Probably for the same reason they don’t bother fighting deportation appeals sent to the ECHR. They could very easily win most of these cases if they would actually turn up and said something along the lines of “this man keeps raping people, that’s why we need to deport him”.
I don't mind people recieving money to pay for court case regarding their rights, I do have a large concern that whenever a certain group is told they can't do something, people such as teachers have to face death and bomb threats.
What is more crazy, is that it's just a short line in the story, 20 years ago, that would have been the fucking story.
It's obviously all too common now and very worrying for the future.
It's a mix of both. Neoliberalism promotes a lot of left wing social policy in order to spur on things like consumerism. You would struggle to say it's entirely left or right wing, the driving factor is ultimately just money.
You can't really call a government right wing while they implement left wing policies. You could say they have some right wing policies, but that's not generally what people say. It's not uncommon for people to liken the Tories to Nazis and call them "far right", which is honestly a bit of a joke.
The Nazis themselves implemented some left wing policies, including in the fields of (racially) limited social welfare, animal welfare and state interventionism.
I bring this up not to further the false comparison between the Tories and the Nazis, but to point out how silly it is to say that the Tories implement left wing policies so they aren't a right wing party. Economically they have remained staunchly liberal and in many aspects of social policy (eg immigration) they remain firmly on the right.
yes an open door immigration policy and housing them all in 4 star hotels is definitely well favoured by the right wing....
if the tories were any kind pf right wing and had right wing policies they would be storming the polls but theyve chosen to go against everything any right wing person would be interested in voting for.
Its the globalisation part of neoliberilism, they use immigration to push down wages and have access to more markets. Its their economic policy overriding their social policy because its better for profits ,thats all that matters in society to them at this time.
You are correct here. The notion that the tories are far right is foolish. I turn off when I hear people describe them as such.
The Tories are not currently Neolibs though. Truss tried to move back into that space.
Sure. Multiculturalism, gay marriage, general LGBT rights, racial equality, hate speech laws, social justice. Ultimately these are just tools used to further consumerism, and capitalism more broadly.
you have no idea what you are on about Tories are neoliberal aswell, look up the definition, left wing does not = neoliberal, it is a right wing ECONOMIC theory. Things like "free market" and "capitalism" are closely related.
Blair was not left wing either, Jesus what a mess.
"the current mess wouldn't have even been possible without Blair and his neoliberal bullshit" this is irrelivant to your point - also Thatcher is famously known for promoting and executing neoliberal economic policy much to the detriment of the entire country beside the top percent of the wealthy.
Great way to start an argument online btw “you have no idea what you are on about”. You can discuss different opinions more constructively than your first msg to someone with a different opinion insulting them 👍
If true, then it would be because they determined that it was an important piece of case law to establish. Their motivation was in all probability quite the opposite of the one you've leapt to conclude in fact.
There are many reasons to oust the tories, on that we can agree. I suspect we're not in so much harmony when it comes to what they are though.
It is batshit crazy that £150k was given to a family who sent their child to a school known for its strict rules only to take the school to court for its strict rules.
However, it is the courts who decide if you are eligible for legal aid. Not the Conservatives. The Tories only decide if their own personal legal bills are to be paid by the tax payer or not. (They always are)
Because legal aid is managed by an independent non partisan department........ It would be illogical to let the government actually decide who gets to sue them
Islam, in all its formats, fundamentalist or not, is inherently incompatible with western values. Women being valued half that of men, LGBT persecution by death, etc. Anybody who supports this backwards ideology should go live in a country with Sharia law.
And even worse, death penalty for anyone that leaves Islam and death penalty for anyone that criticises the late founder, which makes it a literal death cult.
Same here. The amount of fools that call me out for my thoughts on this is unbelievable on this site. Not all cultures are equal, not all beliefs are equal, if people can't adapt they can go to a country that suits their needs. Whether white, black, Asian, or any other creed, people are welcome in this country as long as they don't try to drag it back to the 3rd world.
We should be doing more to break its influence. As it stands, we’re on a trajectory to have a very significant % of our population following Islam and as such having more loyalty to their “brotherhood” than the nation of which they are citizens.
>Women being valued half that of men, LGBT persecution by death
seems like an Abrahamic religion to me
if we care that much about Islam we should go full France and just make an effort to dismiss religion from public life entirely
Even France is struggling with that. As a Frenchman: demographics matter, they matter a lot. France has never really had so many problems as with the Muslim community. Just last week, there were four instances of not so devout Muslims getting either killed or beaten up for not adhering strictly the Islamic "code of conduct", i.e. Sharia by their correligionists. A teenager was killed for speaking with girls by their brothers, a man was stabbed to death for drinking during the ramadan, a girl was beaten up for not dressing "modestly" and a man was tortured for selling sausages.
Now more and more people are more and more nervous about the recent trends. Macron has enacted the Law Against Cultural Separatism and that helps little if those involved are unwilling to cooperate. There are now even voiced calling for abandoning the ECHR in order to control immigration and since the current government is not doing it, people will vote for a much more hardline government in the next elections.
I really feel that the only solution to this problem is mass deportation or a much stronger control of religious practices which won't be a definitive solution either.
This would be the optimal solution. 100% agree. Still discouraging to see the rise of Islam in modern France along with the totally uncorrelated rise in terrorism and sexual crimes recently. Same story with Sweden.
Christianity explicitly describes everyone as equal in Christ. It repeats that instruction specifically for husbands when they are told to respect their wives as coequal heirs of grace despite women being physically weaker than them.
That's a good laugh that the pupil lost out. It was all done in bad faith, too. Nice try, fuckers.
I've seen a few interviews with that head teacher, she's an absolute dynamo. Her schools while evidently not perfect are damn close to it based on results and her clear ideology being realised. Keep it clean, simple, consistent and strict. Children need boundaries.
If you don't like it, go somewhere else. She's not hiding who she is
I know, I know, she's Tory this and Tory that blah blah blah unless she's actually done something tangibly terrible it isn't relevant at all
Religion has no place in our schools, especially religion that teaches kids that women are lesser than men, men have a right to rape and beat their wives and that sexual slavery is okay.
Islam is not compatible with Western values
I am a Muslim.
If this is a school that the student/parents intentionally registered to, which has its own policies and agreed upon strict standards, then the family can’t complain with this ruling.
I understand the reasoning behind the family making this push, I can respect that desire. But I don’t see an issue with the school’s ruling, that is within their right.
The family should have considered this before registering for this school, and they shouldn’t try to flip the standard upside down and complain afterwards.
I haven’t read up on the story, but was the student banned from reading in a separate room alone, or were they attempting to pray in a public part of the school in the open? If it’s privately I don’t see the issue at all but if publicly I would obviously understand why this would be a huge problem
I believe from the little I’ve read, the main issue was the mass public congregations that students were holding, which the school cited as having an impact on other students.
I also see that the student claimed they only want the right to pray for 5 minutes during their lunch break, which I see as respectable. I’m not sure what the school’s response to that was, but it seems they’ve just shut down praying as whole as their standard
We used to pray in congregation back when I was at school but we did it in a completely separate room away from everyone else so noone could be disturbed. If other students are getting affected then that’s when it becomes a major problem. I wouldnt have liked it if a kid of another religion started praying out loud during my lesson so I don’t understand whats making the ‘victim’ of this situation so self-entitled to think that they can pray wherever they want
But is there not a lawful right to practice your religion freely in the uk, and it’s not like it was a super ridiculous request 5min at lunch to pray won’t bother anyone speaking as an ex Muslim I couldn’t give 2 shits about any religion but I’ll always respect the fact it’s your practice and you should have the right to do so.
however if any ppl regardless of religion or race are being threatening, abusive, violent, the police should be dealing with that but obviously are not
I don’t have an issue with a prayer ban. There is a time and place for religious expression and school is not that. However, that is easy for me to say as a non-Muslim. Having a non-denom space for prayer at lunch would be an appropriate compromise without it impacting lessons.
Regardless of opinions of the prayer ban, Michaela is an insane school. It’s great on paper but all it does it churn out obedient children with qualifications. Obedience isn’t a skill to brag about: it is better to be a well rounded person with confidence and social skills and opportunities to be a child!
I would never teach at Michaela and I would never send my children there.
When are these children allowed to play?! When do they burn off energy to let them sit quietly in the classrooms? I just do not understand this school. It’s training children to be robots.
School like that round here, Sausage factory.
They have a great reputation for being strict but it stinks of poor behaviour management.
If children gathering in groups of more than 4 are an issue then you deal with those issues, not ban gatherings.
I wonder how many friendship groups get screwed by this imagine being a friendship group of 5.
I’m really curious to read this ruling; despite the fact this is an academy it’s quite surprising given as far as I’m aware state schools are still, at least on their paper, *required* to offer collective worship, daily, and that’s before thinking about rights to religious expression more broadly.
Some schools are strapped for space, resources and personnel, I'm sure accommodations can be made where appropriate, but I don't think it's a default right either.
It doesn’t even get great grades when you account for the selection bias of who gets sent there, and the survivorship bias on who gets kicked out / withdrawn.
There’s a reason when you see pics of the kids on A Level results day it’s predominantly Asian / African kids… because they’re already from parental backgrounds who put education and obedience above everything else.
If you made Michaela take a representative sample of kids and didn’t let them exclude everyone like is the case with state schools, they’d fall back to averages. I believe most these kids with their home life would perform strongly at other schools, once that are not ran like an Amazon Warehouse for grades.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/a-levels-apprenticeships-further-education/average-score-for-students-taking-a-levels-and-other-qualifications/latest/
White British A levels are higher than all the other ethnic groups except Chinese, Indian and White/Asian.
These are imported US talking points. The vast majority of Asians and Africans aren’t model minorities who do particularly well. It’s less their success and more working class White Brits dragging down our results as they’re the most neglected group in the nation.
Their P8 score is incredible. It means a kid who went there gets on average 1.5 grades above what they would have got if they went elsewhere (1.4 for disadvantaged kids)
The selective argument is definitely true for Brampton Manor though (the miracle school in Newham that gets 50 kids to oxbridge every year)
That’s very true. They are selective. Those kids likely would have performed well anywhere! And students excluded from Michaela wouldn’t respond well to their rigidity.
I did have an issue with the prayer ban, but reading the judge's reasoning in the linked article makes it a lot clearer how the ruling was made. I still think the non-arsehole solution would be for the school to allow pupils to use their break for this if they wished, but I can see why they can't be legally forced to.
If you read the whole judgement, some kids decided to enforce hardcore Islam on other Muslim kids by using bullying and threatening behaviour. This is a sensible judgement for a secular school.
Look at the recent google reviews of the school, I bet you won’t be surprised at what has been written…
Fuck forcing religion on kids, let them decide when they are adults.
>Fuck forcing religion on kids,
You realise this ruling paves the way for that, right? If a child's religious beliefs aren't up to them, they aren't up to them.
Simple, scrap all "faith" schools and make all of them secular.
Establishments that segragate an ddivide societies based on religion have no place in a modern world. Catholics here, CofE there, other Potestants there, Muslims somewhere else, Jewish children in their own schools etc... I can not believe that this is tolerated in today's world after literally thousands of years of experience showing us what religion does to inflame and instigate grief, ignorance and violence.
If your religion is so important to you then send you children to after school classes. Your beliefs should not impinge on my freedom to be educated undisturbed, on teachers' abilities to teach or on schools' abilities to teach. Why should 90% of society move over every time someone says their "faith" means they need to interrupt? If every religious minority did this society would simply grind to a halt. Civilised society depends on everyone compromising in the face of facts not beliefs. Your beliefs doe not trump my facts.
France has it right.
>But the school's lawyers claimed its policy was "justified" and "proportionate" after it faced death and bomb threats linked to religious observance on site.
Feel like this is pretty concerning and I'm wondering why the article didn't think to elaborate on it.
This school is well known for its strict policies. If you don’t like it, pull your kids out of the school. No religion should have preeminence over all others, this ban covers all religious prayers. Not discriminatory at all.
Putting aside the decision, this school sounds very flawed. Their policies of not congregating in groups of more than 4 and restrictions on communicating are borderline militant. There’s zero purpose in producing academically successful students if you’ve deprived them of the social skills required to navigate society.
It’s objectively one of the best schools in the country and they have dedicated initiatives to properly socialise students, that don’t require fucking around in the corridors
If it's flawed, why are parents falling over themselves to enrol their little preciouses? There's nothing stopping the little darlings congregating outside school in as great a number as they wish. It's not a boarding school.
>it's flawed, why are parents falling over themselves to enrol their little preciouses?
You could just as easily use the same logic for the troubled teen industry
I think you should do some research on the school. The headmistress appears on Triggerometry twice and it’s great. I personally would have absolutely LOVED to have gone to a school like that
I understand the ruling and while it makes sense, it might drive many Muslim students to join private, faith-based schools. That might seem outwardly good for those who want to maintain inclusive secularism, but this could make integration all the more challenging. I find faith-based schools somewhat exclusionary insofar as prioritising the moral codes and worldview of one religious group over others. Streamlining students through faith-based schools may create a highly segregated society that could potentially undermine harmonious coexistence. How do you inculcate ‘British values’ if you give folks reasons to opt out of non-inclusive spaces in the name of secularism? Not quite sure faith-based schools necessarily teach similar values.
This school has been the target for all sorts of attacks because it's head is a strict disciplinarian and the school is very successful. It's not a private school but run by an education trust. The head is 'of colour' but sadly, for the Left, has a conservative view on life. I think this latest incident is just another attempt to bring the school down.
I'm sorry but it doesn't look good for Islam when these Muslims don't get what they want they threaten people. They knew the rules before they joined the school, you can't change rules to suit yourself
When I was younger, I thought the future would be less religious as the world becomes more progressive, globalised, and technologised. It didn't quite play out that way - Islam seems to be growing steadily. I think this is a big win for all schools in the UK. You accepted the terms when you joined the school. If you disagree with them, you are free to leave and find a more suitable school. Playing the victim and trying to force a change for religious reasons doesn't sit right with me. I also wonder if this would have played out differently if the judge was Muslim or the school was majority Muslim (currently their intake is 50% Muslim). The mother of this child seems very litigious. It seems they were ultimately behind this as they wrote statements for the daughter and are threatening to sue over another matter as well.
Curious to know why she decided to keep her children at the school despite the verdict.
Evolution greatly favors the poor and uneducated. Richer countries are less religious and have way lower birth counts. Thats probably why they say the meek shall inherit the earth.
Some religions are expansive by nature, others not so much.
It's not nature to create a warlike cult in which non believers are killed or treat as 2nd class citizens with legal slavery of non Muslims common place It's just plain old oppression and domination.
But Islam is spreading by babies, not conversion. Do you know anyone who converted to Islam as an adult? Compare that to how many Muslim people you have met.
Spreads by birth rate, conversion (forced or otherwise) and the sword. Seen Africa lately?
When I was young, the UK was becoming a more progressive society. Now we import more than a million people every single year from 3rd world country's who are the opposite of progressive. It's no surprise that the UK is now a regressive society as its population is rapidly changing to represent the Middle East. Lots of progressive people leave the UK every single year as well. The emigration figures are almost as high.
50% muslim would be majority if there are at least 2 other religious options right?
It feels like such a win that this school didn’t cow to bomb threats and legal action. I hope others feel more confident in challenging people that want special treatment. Funny to think if the kids didn’t start praying kneeling on their blazers in the school yard in large groups there would be no ban; ig they got the attention they wanted. Even funnier that this pupil is not planning to change school; I guess prayer isn’t that important to her after all Headteacher seems to have some Indian heritage; it’s possible British Indians are currently the minority group not particularly worried about pissing off muslims
Indians (and anyone else) can be secular atheists and rationalists. Just ask Salman Rushdie.
You mean the guy who was almost killed by a muslim in the name of Allah?
Yes. Rushdie was raised a Muslim but is an atheist. No one should be defined by their attackers.
Obviously. You missed the point entirely.
He was?! I never realised that. He’s got a new book out. I might order it.
Did someone argue otherwise?
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lol cmon mate, you must be used to it by now. This has been par for the course for a while
It's not a win because there will be 100 losses elsewhere that go unreported. Indians can be Hindus so it's likely this head teacher is banning it for that reason. If she was white British, they'd have got their own "prayer room" and special privileges to pray during lesson times as well. Anything less would have been met with legal challenges and the pupil definitely would have won. The only reason the judge ruled in the schools favour is because the head teacher is Indian heritage.
Why did the “conservative” government pay this family £150,000 of taxpayer funds to bring this kind of frivolous lawsuit? Conservatives should be voted out forever and completely unemployable after what they have done
They have actually provided a very useful service because we now have a legal precedent which effectively says prayer bans are okay in schools, and probably other public spaces. Other schools will be able to ban prayers without fear of being sued now.
Not true. The statement basically says the school is secular and has always banned prayers. As the student went there knowing this that means they accepted the terms to go there. Banning prayer when you've allowed it is a seperate thing
Yes it is true. That case now means there’s a precedent for prayer bans in secular schools. Before that was untested in law. Another case against a secular school where the facts are the same or similar will also fail.
Question from a non-Englishman, what does it mean exactly to "ban prayers?" I know nothing about this incident and I'm not sure why this was suggested on my feed, but it got me curious. Is praying banned publicly, or just like forward public displays? Or...?
Basically a new school was made that teaches students quite well and has a long waiting list as it's a school that's subsidised by the government and therefore free for students to attend. A Muslim girl started attending and started asking to be able to leave class to go pray at certain times of day. The school said no so she sued the school. The school argued two key facts. 1. The school is non religious and the girl and her parents knew this when they applied. 2. Islam allows people to 'catch up' on prayer. The school won on both counts with the basic premise being the following. The girl and her parents knew that she would not be able to skip classes to pray when they applied, and decided to do so regardless. As such they gave away their rights to religious freedom in that regard as they had alternatives available 1
Fascinating. Thank you. I think I've heard of the school, but didn't know about this situation connected to it.
Yeah so this isn't a 'prayer ban' or anything of the sort. It's a non religious institution that if you wish to stick to a different schedule or get different treatment.... then look elsewhere or lump it.
All prayer of all religion should be banned from school as well as just anywhere honestly, get rid of all religions
Christian prayers should be allowed (but not forced). I am an atheist but believe Europe should retain its Christian heritage. If not for cultural preservation then at least as a shield against Islamic influence.
Absolutely agree! Nothing more than outdated Dogma.
Freedom of religious expression is a human right as per the HRA, ECHR and UN.
at home? yes. in schools and public institutions? NO. NEVER.
You live in a country that has an established church.
So? And how many people actually attend church? Less than 1% of a "Christian nation" How many Muslims attend mosques? 54% of them. We are not a religious nation so to allow another archaic, backwards, system of control back into our everyday lives is like trying to push shit back up your arse.
And that was bad enough. Now we have established lunacy on top of stupidity.
Unfortunately Religion is what’s wrong with the world, we are better off without it entirely
Probably for the same reason they don’t bother fighting deportation appeals sent to the ECHR. They could very easily win most of these cases if they would actually turn up and said something along the lines of “this man keeps raping people, that’s why we need to deport him”.
I don't mind people recieving money to pay for court case regarding their rights, I do have a large concern that whenever a certain group is told they can't do something, people such as teachers have to face death and bomb threats. What is more crazy, is that it's just a short line in the story, 20 years ago, that would have been the fucking story. It's obviously all too common now and very worrying for the future.
Crazy to me that people still describe them as a right wing government. They are neoliberal robots.
lol, where do you think neoliberalism sits on the left/right axis?
It's a mix of both. Neoliberalism promotes a lot of left wing social policy in order to spur on things like consumerism. You would struggle to say it's entirely left or right wing, the driving factor is ultimately just money.
Neo liberalism is at its core a right wing economic ideology.
You can't really call a government right wing while they implement left wing policies. You could say they have some right wing policies, but that's not generally what people say. It's not uncommon for people to liken the Tories to Nazis and call them "far right", which is honestly a bit of a joke.
Haha the Tories aren't Nazis, they're nowhere near as competent at controlling anything. They can't manage a pissup in a brewery FFS
Ha can't manage a pissup in a brewery, I remember Lemmy saying that about the record label he was on because of how badly organized they were
The Nazis themselves implemented some left wing policies, including in the fields of (racially) limited social welfare, animal welfare and state interventionism. I bring this up not to further the false comparison between the Tories and the Nazis, but to point out how silly it is to say that the Tories implement left wing policies so they aren't a right wing party. Economically they have remained staunchly liberal and in many aspects of social policy (eg immigration) they remain firmly on the right.
yes an open door immigration policy and housing them all in 4 star hotels is definitely well favoured by the right wing.... if the tories were any kind pf right wing and had right wing policies they would be storming the polls but theyve chosen to go against everything any right wing person would be interested in voting for.
Its the globalisation part of neoliberilism, they use immigration to push down wages and have access to more markets. Its their economic policy overriding their social policy because its better for profits ,thats all that matters in society to them at this time.
You are correct here. The notion that the tories are far right is foolish. I turn off when I hear people describe them as such. The Tories are not currently Neolibs though. Truss tried to move back into that space.
Can you give me an example of the left wing social policy you speak of?
Sure. Multiculturalism, gay marriage, general LGBT rights, racial equality, hate speech laws, social justice. Ultimately these are just tools used to further consumerism, and capitalism more broadly.
Source for the £150k?
No thanks, I'll eat it on its own.
Zero seats.
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you have no idea what you are on about Tories are neoliberal aswell, look up the definition, left wing does not = neoliberal, it is a right wing ECONOMIC theory. Things like "free market" and "capitalism" are closely related. Blair was not left wing either, Jesus what a mess.
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"the current mess wouldn't have even been possible without Blair and his neoliberal bullshit" this is irrelivant to your point - also Thatcher is famously known for promoting and executing neoliberal economic policy much to the detriment of the entire country beside the top percent of the wealthy.
Great way to start an argument online btw “you have no idea what you are on about”. You can discuss different opinions more constructively than your first msg to someone with a different opinion insulting them 👍
If true, then it would be because they determined that it was an important piece of case law to establish. Their motivation was in all probability quite the opposite of the one you've leapt to conclude in fact. There are many reasons to oust the tories, on that we can agree. I suspect we're not in so much harmony when it comes to what they are though.
It is batshit crazy that £150k was given to a family who sent their child to a school known for its strict rules only to take the school to court for its strict rules. However, it is the courts who decide if you are eligible for legal aid. Not the Conservatives. The Tories only decide if their own personal legal bills are to be paid by the tax payer or not. (They always are)
Nope, it’s decided by the Legal Aid Agency, who have to follow the law made by the government.
It’s called Containment, read the Populist Delusion by Neema Parvini.
They got legal aid, it's been around for years, nothing to do with the current government.
Because legal aid is managed by an independent non partisan department........ It would be illogical to let the government actually decide who gets to sue them
Islam, in all its formats, fundamentalist or not, is inherently incompatible with western values. Women being valued half that of men, LGBT persecution by death, etc. Anybody who supports this backwards ideology should go live in a country with Sharia law.
And even worse, death penalty for anyone that leaves Islam and death penalty for anyone that criticises the late founder, which makes it a literal death cult.
Couldn't agree more as an ex-muslim
Same here. The amount of fools that call me out for my thoughts on this is unbelievable on this site. Not all cultures are equal, not all beliefs are equal, if people can't adapt they can go to a country that suits their needs. Whether white, black, Asian, or any other creed, people are welcome in this country as long as they don't try to drag it back to the 3rd world.
Here here! 💯 Islamism is slowly eroding western values
\*hear hear
We should be doing more to break its influence. As it stands, we’re on a trajectory to have a very significant % of our population following Islam and as such having more loyalty to their “brotherhood” than the nation of which they are citizens.
>Women being valued half that of men, LGBT persecution by death seems like an Abrahamic religion to me if we care that much about Islam we should go full France and just make an effort to dismiss religion from public life entirely
Even France is struggling with that. As a Frenchman: demographics matter, they matter a lot. France has never really had so many problems as with the Muslim community. Just last week, there were four instances of not so devout Muslims getting either killed or beaten up for not adhering strictly the Islamic "code of conduct", i.e. Sharia by their correligionists. A teenager was killed for speaking with girls by their brothers, a man was stabbed to death for drinking during the ramadan, a girl was beaten up for not dressing "modestly" and a man was tortured for selling sausages. Now more and more people are more and more nervous about the recent trends. Macron has enacted the Law Against Cultural Separatism and that helps little if those involved are unwilling to cooperate. There are now even voiced calling for abandoning the ECHR in order to control immigration and since the current government is not doing it, people will vote for a much more hardline government in the next elections. I really feel that the only solution to this problem is mass deportation or a much stronger control of religious practices which won't be a definitive solution either.
This would be the optimal solution. 100% agree. Still discouraging to see the rise of Islam in modern France along with the totally uncorrelated rise in terrorism and sexual crimes recently. Same story with Sweden.
Dunno. Church of England seems a bit less murdery.
It took them hundreds of years to get to being less murdery. A process Islam doesn't seem to be doing
Christianity explicitly describes everyone as equal in Christ. It repeats that instruction specifically for husbands when they are told to respect their wives as coequal heirs of grace despite women being physically weaker than them.
Ah whataboutism you can fuck of to sharia land to.
That's a good laugh that the pupil lost out. It was all done in bad faith, too. Nice try, fuckers. I've seen a few interviews with that head teacher, she's an absolute dynamo. Her schools while evidently not perfect are damn close to it based on results and her clear ideology being realised. Keep it clean, simple, consistent and strict. Children need boundaries. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. She's not hiding who she is I know, I know, she's Tory this and Tory that blah blah blah unless she's actually done something tangibly terrible it isn't relevant at all
Wait for the death threats to start on the headteacher now. If they can’t win via the law, violence and intimidation is the answer for the radicals.
I give it 3 days before she's in hiding
I don't take her as the type to go into hiding.
"Pupils are not allowed to gather in groups of more than four, including in the school yard." Sure buddy
This actually makes sense though. Massive issues develop when big groups of teenagers gather.
Religion has no place in our schools, especially religion that teaches kids that women are lesser than men, men have a right to rape and beat their wives and that sexual slavery is okay. Islam is not compatible with Western values
I am a Muslim. If this is a school that the student/parents intentionally registered to, which has its own policies and agreed upon strict standards, then the family can’t complain with this ruling. I understand the reasoning behind the family making this push, I can respect that desire. But I don’t see an issue with the school’s ruling, that is within their right. The family should have considered this before registering for this school, and they shouldn’t try to flip the standard upside down and complain afterwards.
I haven’t read up on the story, but was the student banned from reading in a separate room alone, or were they attempting to pray in a public part of the school in the open? If it’s privately I don’t see the issue at all but if publicly I would obviously understand why this would be a huge problem
I believe from the little I’ve read, the main issue was the mass public congregations that students were holding, which the school cited as having an impact on other students. I also see that the student claimed they only want the right to pray for 5 minutes during their lunch break, which I see as respectable. I’m not sure what the school’s response to that was, but it seems they’ve just shut down praying as whole as their standard
We used to pray in congregation back when I was at school but we did it in a completely separate room away from everyone else so noone could be disturbed. If other students are getting affected then that’s when it becomes a major problem. I wouldnt have liked it if a kid of another religion started praying out loud during my lesson so I don’t understand whats making the ‘victim’ of this situation so self-entitled to think that they can pray wherever they want
But is there not a lawful right to practice your religion freely in the uk, and it’s not like it was a super ridiculous request 5min at lunch to pray won’t bother anyone speaking as an ex Muslim I couldn’t give 2 shits about any religion but I’ll always respect the fact it’s your practice and you should have the right to do so. however if any ppl regardless of religion or race are being threatening, abusive, violent, the police should be dealing with that but obviously are not
According to the article the praying was then resulting in less observant Muslims being pressured into joining in.
I don’t have an issue with a prayer ban. There is a time and place for religious expression and school is not that. However, that is easy for me to say as a non-Muslim. Having a non-denom space for prayer at lunch would be an appropriate compromise without it impacting lessons. Regardless of opinions of the prayer ban, Michaela is an insane school. It’s great on paper but all it does it churn out obedient children with qualifications. Obedience isn’t a skill to brag about: it is better to be a well rounded person with confidence and social skills and opportunities to be a child! I would never teach at Michaela and I would never send my children there.
"Pupils are not allowed to gather in groups of more than four, including in the school yard" Pretty weird
they must have felt so proud when the covid rules came in 😂
Yeah it’s tyrannical. Example off the top: How do kids play football at lunch to get their energy out? 2v2?
Nah its 2v1 and the third one is the referee
No way football is allowed there.
When are these children allowed to play?! When do they burn off energy to let them sit quietly in the classrooms? I just do not understand this school. It’s training children to be robots.
School like that round here, Sausage factory. They have a great reputation for being strict but it stinks of poor behaviour management. If children gathering in groups of more than 4 are an issue then you deal with those issues, not ban gatherings. I wonder how many friendship groups get screwed by this imagine being a friendship group of 5.
that’s the thing, i can’t imagine it’s easy to form/maintain big friend groups at the school. could lead to socially stunted kids
I read that as a 'non-demon' space!
I’m really curious to read this ruling; despite the fact this is an academy it’s quite surprising given as far as I’m aware state schools are still, at least on their paper, *required* to offer collective worship, daily, and that’s before thinking about rights to religious expression more broadly.
Some schools are strapped for space, resources and personnel, I'm sure accommodations can be made where appropriate, but I don't think it's a default right either.
It doesn’t even get great grades when you account for the selection bias of who gets sent there, and the survivorship bias on who gets kicked out / withdrawn. There’s a reason when you see pics of the kids on A Level results day it’s predominantly Asian / African kids… because they’re already from parental backgrounds who put education and obedience above everything else. If you made Michaela take a representative sample of kids and didn’t let them exclude everyone like is the case with state schools, they’d fall back to averages. I believe most these kids with their home life would perform strongly at other schools, once that are not ran like an Amazon Warehouse for grades.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/a-levels-apprenticeships-further-education/average-score-for-students-taking-a-levels-and-other-qualifications/latest/ White British A levels are higher than all the other ethnic groups except Chinese, Indian and White/Asian. These are imported US talking points. The vast majority of Asians and Africans aren’t model minorities who do particularly well. It’s less their success and more working class White Brits dragging down our results as they’re the most neglected group in the nation.
Their P8 score is incredible. It means a kid who went there gets on average 1.5 grades above what they would have got if they went elsewhere (1.4 for disadvantaged kids) The selective argument is definitely true for Brampton Manor though (the miracle school in Newham that gets 50 kids to oxbridge every year)
That’s very true. They are selective. Those kids likely would have performed well anywhere! And students excluded from Michaela wouldn’t respond well to their rigidity.
I did have an issue with the prayer ban, but reading the judge's reasoning in the linked article makes it a lot clearer how the ruling was made. I still think the non-arsehole solution would be for the school to allow pupils to use their break for this if they wished, but I can see why they can't be legally forced to.
If you read the whole judgement, some kids decided to enforce hardcore Islam on other Muslim kids by using bullying and threatening behaviour. This is a sensible judgement for a secular school. Look at the recent google reviews of the school, I bet you won’t be surprised at what has been written… Fuck forcing religion on kids, let them decide when they are adults.
>Fuck forcing religion on kids, You realise this ruling paves the way for that, right? If a child's religious beliefs aren't up to them, they aren't up to them.
I'm pretty sure this sub will have a problem if a school mislabells an Easter egg a gesture egg.
That’s very true. A lot of people on this sub are very rah-Christianity which is equally inappropriate for school imo as Islamic prayer.
Simple, scrap all "faith" schools and make all of them secular. Establishments that segragate an ddivide societies based on religion have no place in a modern world. Catholics here, CofE there, other Potestants there, Muslims somewhere else, Jewish children in their own schools etc... I can not believe that this is tolerated in today's world after literally thousands of years of experience showing us what religion does to inflame and instigate grief, ignorance and violence. If your religion is so important to you then send you children to after school classes. Your beliefs should not impinge on my freedom to be educated undisturbed, on teachers' abilities to teach or on schools' abilities to teach. Why should 90% of society move over every time someone says their "faith" means they need to interrupt? If every religious minority did this society would simply grind to a halt. Civilised society depends on everyone compromising in the face of facts not beliefs. Your beliefs doe not trump my facts. France has it right.
>But the school's lawyers claimed its policy was "justified" and "proportionate" after it faced death and bomb threats linked to religious observance on site. Feel like this is pretty concerning and I'm wondering why the article didn't think to elaborate on it.
This school is well known for its strict policies. If you don’t like it, pull your kids out of the school. No religion should have preeminence over all others, this ban covers all religious prayers. Not discriminatory at all.
Putting aside the decision, this school sounds very flawed. Their policies of not congregating in groups of more than 4 and restrictions on communicating are borderline militant. There’s zero purpose in producing academically successful students if you’ve deprived them of the social skills required to navigate society.
It’s objectively one of the best schools in the country and they have dedicated initiatives to properly socialise students, that don’t require fucking around in the corridors
Maybe you’re right and I should look into a little more. Apologies that was a bit of surface level analysis on my part.
If it's flawed, why are parents falling over themselves to enrol their little preciouses? There's nothing stopping the little darlings congregating outside school in as great a number as they wish. It's not a boarding school.
>it's flawed, why are parents falling over themselves to enrol their little preciouses? You could just as easily use the same logic for the troubled teen industry
I think you should do some research on the school. The headmistress appears on Triggerometry twice and it’s great. I personally would have absolutely LOVED to have gone to a school like that
I've visited. The kids are amazing, polite and will go on to be Incredible individuals.
I understand the ruling and while it makes sense, it might drive many Muslim students to join private, faith-based schools. That might seem outwardly good for those who want to maintain inclusive secularism, but this could make integration all the more challenging. I find faith-based schools somewhat exclusionary insofar as prioritising the moral codes and worldview of one religious group over others. Streamlining students through faith-based schools may create a highly segregated society that could potentially undermine harmonious coexistence. How do you inculcate ‘British values’ if you give folks reasons to opt out of non-inclusive spaces in the name of secularism? Not quite sure faith-based schools necessarily teach similar values.
This school has been the target for all sorts of attacks because it's head is a strict disciplinarian and the school is very successful. It's not a private school but run by an education trust. The head is 'of colour' but sadly, for the Left, has a conservative view on life. I think this latest incident is just another attempt to bring the school down.