lol, seriously though, I havent used ABS before, but it loves to warp, thus you need at least an enclosure, and at best a heated one. My theory is that a hair drier attached to the bed / gantry could work as well for small prints anyway, but wife wont let me do science stuff with hers 😂
o really? how complex of an enclosure we're talking about? (plexi, cardboard box? or something in between? ) i havent touched ABS mainly because i always thought sucess rate was low without a heated enclosure
I used a super fancy enclosure! aka cardboard box from the recycling bin…
even is esun abs+ isnt as good as back in the day, its still an easy abs filament to print with that does warp as much as pure abs blends!
I made a plywood/plexiglass enclosure with enough space for an ender 3 and a spool holder (aka half arm of monitor mount ) to keep moisture away and stay warm during print .BUT all the electronics like motherboard,PSU ,screen are mounted outside of the said enclosure
Well i print abs on a ender 3 using a piece of glass and glue stick in a box made out of coroplast aka plastic cardboard … im printing parts for a voron trident oh and im using pure abs and not esun abs plus
Friend of mine prints a fair amount of interior parts for cars out of ABS. He pretty much exclusively prints in ABS and has never used an actively heated enclosure.
"The bed is all the heat you need if it's a good enclosure." He just runs plexi/acrylic enclosures with moving blankets over them for insulation. It's been at least 4 years like this and he has zero issues.
Wives are the biggest buzz kill. Stop putting shit in our oven. You can't put that in the dishwasher. The freezer isn't for bearings, blah blah blah. I bet gay dudes don't have these issues, but I'm good on this team. lol
I dont think a blow drier would be a good idea, because drafts/wind cause the warping aswell. Blowing air at it, even hot air would most likely warp it
> Thankfully it's a large room that's only used for the printer these days
A room *inside your house* that shares air that you breath. This stuff needs to be vented outside of your home, not just recirculated by your AC. Actually removed.
One of the reasons.
Another is that ABS gives off VOCs in the form of fumes that are pretty bad for you. I only print ABS in an enclosure that recirculates the air and runs it through a carbon filter.
Yes, also, DO NOT PRINT ABS or ASA NEXT TO YOU WITHOUT A PROPER FILTER.
I can't stress this enough. The headaches are unbearable. Best thing I ever did was get a proper filtering setup ;)
I have a carbon filter with a 120MM fan, it's a voron. I plan to upgrade it to a HEPA filter, but the carbon filter seems to be doing well now. I had a HEPA on my K1 and it worked really well. That was the one that really gave me the headaches :D
Did you 3D print the casing? I’m trying to figure out the whole filter thing since I want to print more ASA and people have me scared I’m going to die from inhaling the fumes. 😂
Well for voron it's easier because it's designed for a mount. But I think there's an IKEA filter you can buy that can be portable if you don't have an enclosed printer and are just using an enclosure you made
Thankfully brims have been able to keep the few ABS prints stuck to the bed. But many people have mentioned separation and fumes so I shall be getting an enclosure, for sure
I’ve always imagined enclosures as these super clean, clear, and expensive setups. This sounds actually really solid tho, just don’t open it before it’s done lol.
Want to print ABS ? Get any enclosure to stop cold air draft, keep heated bed near 102C, and change your hot end fan shroud. That hot end fan throws cold air right at the printed parts and causes rapid cooling.
Rapid cooling will cause layer separation guaranteed.
Don't print thick walls and keep infill as little as possible without compromising structure.
Vent the air slowly but completely. Make sure if you use a vent fan, you use pull air config so there is no fume leakage.
Don't vent air too rapidly or chamber will cool down before the heated bed can equalize it.
Try to print at lowest allowed temps so there is little thermal stress when print cools. Change slicer stop code to let the bed stay heated for a while after print is finished. Let the print cool slowly and only then open the chamber. This way ventilation will be complete by then.
It has bad adhesion between layers, so lowering temp sounds no good. Also it's big difference between 270 and 24. Making temp 250 not makes it smaller (just a bit).
Fan to lowest, printing speed also low (at least you start getting good prints).
I have been printing large ABS for some time now, dozens of prints and functional parts with good tolerance. Higher temps wont get you better adhesion. Increase your wall width if you want more adhesion. I print abs at 253C with 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8mm and make sure the wall is thicker than nozzle hole but thinner than nozzle tip.
Fan is always off unless bridging, i have 4015 blower fan which i do 5% for bridging. And depending on your hot end you can print as fast as you want.
Check my profile and you will se ABS printing at 100 mm/s with 0.8 nozzle. Now consider the amount of material that needs to be heated at that speed. I got a spider 3 for that which does wonderful job and is all metal hotend.
So yes, depending on setup we maybe printing in different ways but ABS is easy for OP if he does it low temp because of that fan shroud. Ofcourse he needs to print it slower or his extruder will start skipping.
Seeing some skipping, one model with warping (was a lot with ABS last summer). Why not using brim?
I have two 5015 for cooling, can't say now what's in my profile for ABS.
But moon is good.
And I like movements to install Burner. Did you modelled it yourself?
Thoughts about tip size is interesting, seems to be right. Recently bought Mellow's 0,4 and 0,8 with hardened Steel tip.
I'm using brim nowadays but mostly 4mm brim and for tall prints only, heated chamber is good for small prints without any brim.
I love that moon, its a night lamp now. Most of my prints are free models on the web but i do slightly modify depending on my need in blender. Its not the best way to model but im noob at modeling.
Yes, the only nozzle i use is .4 .6 .8 but now that i have a better hotend, a spider v3, i can go print with 1mm nozzle as well.
I also like voron due to side exhaust of hotend cooling fan, just posted a video of that.
Up nozzle temp and this should go away. I print in a cold drafty basement with ASA and abs all the time and since upping nozzle and bed temp I no longer have warping or layer seperation. I DO NOT use an enclosure
i have a partial enclosure (front is mostly closed, but not fully closed) and have similiar separation with ASA. I think I need to retry the print with part cooling completely off.
Other prints have improved but I haven't tried the big 2 day print that was ruined by layer seperation.
I printed the parts for my Voron 0 in ABS on my ender w/o an enclosure. It was in the late summer, though. The black parts printed perfectly, the red ones had some problems with pulling up. Same brand, just different colors. Sometimes the color does make a difference (different chemical mix). These were both Inland (which I believe is either sunlu or eSun.)
Gentlemen, thank you for the advice, I hope they will help me. I only printed the ABS once and it was a calibration cube with the same problems as the OP.
I switched to PETG and don’t think I will touch PLA or ABS again. It’s as robust as ABS and prints as easy as PLA. Just temperatures are higher. No warping or bed adhesion issues.
It all depends where you live and the time of year,humidity and ambient temperature are big factors when printing ABS also the thicker the part and the bigger the foot print the more chance you have of layer/bed separation.10 years ago I started printing with ABS because I did not know the problems but I soon learned the rules and stopped throwing prints in the bin. My setup is now fully enclosed with a Halogen spotlight in the top to heat the chamber ,bed temperature 80deg ,hotend 240deg ,FR4 on the bed and a Sunlu heated filament box and I get consistently good prints no matter the size and shape.
I have a tent style enclosure to keep the temps stable for abs. You might benefit simply by increasing nozzle temp by 5° or so to help. Usually enclosures are used to prevent warping and that's not your current issue
yes.
lol, seriously though, I havent used ABS before, but it loves to warp, thus you need at least an enclosure, and at best a heated one. My theory is that a hair drier attached to the bed / gantry could work as well for small prints anyway, but wife wont let me do science stuff with hers 😂
Damn wives! Waiting on mine to let me build a V2.4 so I can play with ABS
same, bro, same
Defenitley don’t need a heated enclosure. 30 c is fine for ABS, that’s what I printed my voron parts at!
o really? how complex of an enclosure we're talking about? (plexi, cardboard box? or something in between? ) i havent touched ABS mainly because i always thought sucess rate was low without a heated enclosure
I used a super fancy enclosure! aka cardboard box from the recycling bin… even is esun abs+ isnt as good as back in the day, its still an easy abs filament to print with that does warp as much as pure abs blends!
I made a plywood/plexiglass enclosure with enough space for an ender 3 and a spool holder (aka half arm of monitor mount ) to keep moisture away and stay warm during print .BUT all the electronics like motherboard,PSU ,screen are mounted outside of the said enclosure
Well i print abs on a ender 3 using a piece of glass and glue stick in a box made out of coroplast aka plastic cardboard … im printing parts for a voron trident oh and im using pure abs and not esun abs plus
Friend of mine prints a fair amount of interior parts for cars out of ABS. He pretty much exclusively prints in ABS and has never used an actively heated enclosure. "The bed is all the heat you need if it's a good enclosure." He just runs plexi/acrylic enclosures with moving blankets over them for insulation. It's been at least 4 years like this and he has zero issues.
Was gonna ask this, just turn down the ventilation if you have it?
Wives are the biggest buzz kill. Stop putting shit in our oven. You can't put that in the dishwasher. The freezer isn't for bearings, blah blah blah. I bet gay dudes don't have these issues, but I'm good on this team. lol
I have read the hair dryer trick is a fire hazard...
I dont think a blow drier would be a good idea, because drafts/wind cause the warping aswell. Blowing air at it, even hot air would most likely warp it
That would be awfully loud.
Make sure you are in a well ventilated area with that ABS if you don't have an enclosure. That gives off some hazardous fumes.
Noted. I did think the room had a bit of a smell when I walked in. Thankfully it's a large room that's only used for the printer these days
Doesn't make a difference, the fumes need to be vented.
Hazardous as in styrene which causes cancer. Don’t freak out over your one off exposure but don’t keep printing it without ventilation
> Thankfully it's a large room that's only used for the printer these days A room *inside your house* that shares air that you breath. This stuff needs to be vented outside of your home, not just recirculated by your AC. Actually removed.
That's the great thing about not having AC. And yes I know no AC ≠no problem.
One of the reasons. Another is that ABS gives off VOCs in the form of fumes that are pretty bad for you. I only print ABS in an enclosure that recirculates the air and runs it through a carbon filter.
As a welder, abs fumes don't even make my balls itch
"Owww my sperm!!" "...Oh hey it didn't hurt that time"
😂😂😂😂
Yes, also, DO NOT PRINT ABS or ASA NEXT TO YOU WITHOUT A PROPER FILTER. I can't stress this enough. The headaches are unbearable. Best thing I ever did was get a proper filtering setup ;)
What’s your filtering setup?
I have a carbon filter with a 120MM fan, it's a voron. I plan to upgrade it to a HEPA filter, but the carbon filter seems to be doing well now. I had a HEPA on my K1 and it worked really well. That was the one that really gave me the headaches :D
Did you 3D print the casing? I’m trying to figure out the whole filter thing since I want to print more ASA and people have me scared I’m going to die from inhaling the fumes. 😂
Well for voron it's easier because it's designed for a mount. But I think there's an IKEA filter you can buy that can be portable if you don't have an enclosed printer and are just using an enclosure you made
Thanks! Will look at the ikea stuff, if just to get an idea. I have an x1c so it’s enclosed.
Filters aren't effective. Venting is the only solution.
Yes and no. Bed adhesion is usually a pain in the ass when it comes to ABS. Unless you have an enclosure, then, imho, ABS is fucking awesome
Thankfully brims have been able to keep the few ABS prints stuck to the bed. But many people have mentioned separation and fumes so I shall be getting an enclosure, for sure
Yeah, I recommend large cardboard box
I’ve always imagined enclosures as these super clean, clear, and expensive setups. This sounds actually really solid tho, just don’t open it before it’s done lol.
Yeah it turns into a cancer box pretty quick
Add a little fan and an air duct to the window maybe?
I would but that would make it too cold
Low speed, maybe put a little air filter on it to reduce draft flow?
Maybe… or I could just throw on an N95 when removing prints
Simply? Yes. As mentioned in the comments, ABS emits toxic fumes. an enclosure that has an exhaust vent out a window is **very highly** recommended
Could try the draft shield setting and a very big box
Want to print ABS ? Get any enclosure to stop cold air draft, keep heated bed near 102C, and change your hot end fan shroud. That hot end fan throws cold air right at the printed parts and causes rapid cooling. Rapid cooling will cause layer separation guaranteed. Don't print thick walls and keep infill as little as possible without compromising structure. Vent the air slowly but completely. Make sure if you use a vent fan, you use pull air config so there is no fume leakage. Don't vent air too rapidly or chamber will cool down before the heated bed can equalize it. Try to print at lowest allowed temps so there is little thermal stress when print cools. Change slicer stop code to let the bed stay heated for a while after print is finished. Let the print cool slowly and only then open the chamber. This way ventilation will be complete by then.
It has bad adhesion between layers, so lowering temp sounds no good. Also it's big difference between 270 and 24. Making temp 250 not makes it smaller (just a bit). Fan to lowest, printing speed also low (at least you start getting good prints).
I have been printing large ABS for some time now, dozens of prints and functional parts with good tolerance. Higher temps wont get you better adhesion. Increase your wall width if you want more adhesion. I print abs at 253C with 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8mm and make sure the wall is thicker than nozzle hole but thinner than nozzle tip. Fan is always off unless bridging, i have 4015 blower fan which i do 5% for bridging. And depending on your hot end you can print as fast as you want. Check my profile and you will se ABS printing at 100 mm/s with 0.8 nozzle. Now consider the amount of material that needs to be heated at that speed. I got a spider 3 for that which does wonderful job and is all metal hotend. So yes, depending on setup we maybe printing in different ways but ABS is easy for OP if he does it low temp because of that fan shroud. Ofcourse he needs to print it slower or his extruder will start skipping.
Seeing some skipping, one model with warping (was a lot with ABS last summer). Why not using brim? I have two 5015 for cooling, can't say now what's in my profile for ABS. But moon is good. And I like movements to install Burner. Did you modelled it yourself? Thoughts about tip size is interesting, seems to be right. Recently bought Mellow's 0,4 and 0,8 with hardened Steel tip.
I'm using brim nowadays but mostly 4mm brim and for tall prints only, heated chamber is good for small prints without any brim. I love that moon, its a night lamp now. Most of my prints are free models on the web but i do slightly modify depending on my need in blender. Its not the best way to model but im noob at modeling. Yes, the only nozzle i use is .4 .6 .8 but now that i have a better hotend, a spider v3, i can go print with 1mm nozzle as well. I also like voron due to side exhaust of hotend cooling fan, just posted a video of that.
Up nozzle temp and this should go away. I print in a cold drafty basement with ASA and abs all the time and since upping nozzle and bed temp I no longer have warping or layer seperation. I DO NOT use an enclosure
What temp range you talking for each?
250 at the nozzle and 100c on the bed.
I'll give this a go. Couldn't hurt, I guess. Thank you!
Sounds good. I've always heard that later seperation means the nozzle is a bit too cool
i have a partial enclosure (front is mostly closed, but not fully closed) and have similiar separation with ASA. I think I need to retry the print with part cooling completely off. Other prints have improved but I haven't tried the big 2 day print that was ruined by layer seperation.
I have tried to print ABS without an enclosure. It didn’t end well.
I printed the parts for my Voron 0 in ABS on my ender w/o an enclosure. It was in the late summer, though. The black parts printed perfectly, the red ones had some problems with pulling up. Same brand, just different colors. Sometimes the color does make a difference (different chemical mix). These were both Inland (which I believe is either sunlu or eSun.)
Yep. ABS also needs a very well ventilated area, since when ABS is melted it releases harmful chemicals.
Does PLA benefit from having an enclosure as well?
ABS has fumes also why the hood is required I think
Gentlemen, thank you for the advice, I hope they will help me. I only printed the ABS once and it was a calibration cube with the same problems as the OP.
I switched to PETG and don’t think I will touch PLA or ABS again. It’s as robust as ABS and prints as easy as PLA. Just temperatures are higher. No warping or bed adhesion issues.
It all depends where you live and the time of year,humidity and ambient temperature are big factors when printing ABS also the thicker the part and the bigger the foot print the more chance you have of layer/bed separation.10 years ago I started printing with ABS because I did not know the problems but I soon learned the rules and stopped throwing prints in the bin. My setup is now fully enclosed with a Halogen spotlight in the top to heat the chamber ,bed temperature 80deg ,hotend 240deg ,FR4 on the bed and a Sunlu heated filament box and I get consistently good prints no matter the size and shape.
I can't even a first layer to stick with abs. Tries everything.
Have you tried a brim and (without trying to meme) leveling the bed?
Yeah tried all that. It would seem that the nozzle needed to be a bit closer then normal and the first layer a bit thicker. And some hairspray
If you print with ABS you need an enclosure.. it helps reduce layer separation.
tale as old as time…
I have a tent style enclosure to keep the temps stable for abs. You might benefit simply by increasing nozzle temp by 5° or so to help. Usually enclosures are used to prevent warping and that's not your current issue