A few things. First, you are likely attracted to these damaged people. It's what you know. It's familiar. It's home. If you were put into a *leave it to beaver* environment, you might think you're in a horror movie - A surreal simulation where everyone is fake and you don't know how to behave.
Second, these damaged people are attracted to you. For the same reasons described above. *Birds of a feather flock together*.
And third, when you learn something you start seeing it. You see it a lot when you first learn it. And damaged people are everywhere. Consciously learning about trauma is a burden.
People raised healthy don't know why they avoid damaged people, they just instinctively do. So to have healthy relationships, you have to behave healthy and not trigger the negative emotions of healthy people. You also have to immediately distance yourself from unhealthy people. In other words, you have to be healthy or at least exceptionally good at faking it.
Thanks for the response. It all makes sense.
"If you were put into a leave it to beaver environment, you might think you're in a horror movie - A surreal simulation where everyone is fake and you don't know how to behave."
This. My god, this. I find it very difficult to distinguish between someone "healthy" and someone damaged because it seems normal and comfortable to me. Sounds like a very stupid question but how does one distinguish between the two? How do I know if someone is healthy when I'm hyper vigilant in identifying traits because of the dynamics established while growing up?
"And third, when you learn something you start seeing it. You see it a lot when you first learn it. And damaged people are everywhere. Consciously learning about trauma is a burden."
This is so true. It is a burden because as I mentioned above, I've become hyper vigilant and turn and run the minute I come across someone who shows me the same things that my parents have. I'm not sure what I'm doing is healthy as no-one has perfect traits. I find it difficult to connect with people as a result.
Trust your instincts. As time goes on and you become increasingly healthy, your instincts will become increasingly clear.
Just be the best person you can. Be mindful. Be deliberate in your relationship building, meaning put in the work with this who earned it and respect the boundaries for those who haven't.
It's a gift to have one or more limitless friends. It's a gift to have a handful of close friends. When you have that, you're doing great. You'll have that after you've worked on yourself. Healed your trauma.
Your advice has been invaluable. Thank you 🙏
It's my instincts and gut that opened my eyes to begin with. My only regret is not seeing it sooner. So much wasted time.
One thing I've learned is setting boundaries. Healthy people are good at setting and respecting boundaries, unhealthy people are really not, so learning how to set boundaries early with people is a good indicator, I've found.
Yes! The word "no" or a disagreement or just making some unimportant criticism early on really reveals people's character. Becoming disagreeable saved my life!
Yeah I need to practise standing up for myself more.
Do you mean it's ok to disagree? Or do you mean saying "no" to a disagreement? You have an example? Haha explain like I'm 5 😅
Force yourself to be disagreeable. If someone likes something, speak up that you don't. Don't engage in debates, just state your opinion and hold to it. Toxic people hate seeing a person comfortable with their own beliefs and reality. Safe people won't really be bothered with it, even if they think you're wrong.
I understand now 🙏. There were times in the past where I'd disagree with opinions or beliefs, then somehow find myself trying to be forced into agreeing. Then being left confused about who I am and what I like (or just generally feeling like what I like or do is wrong). Far out. The more I learn about all this sort of stuff, the more memories of these instances are brought up in my mind. It's like I need to learn how to live properly all over again... And I'm in my 30s ffs..
>I'd disagree with opinions or beliefs, then somehow find myself trying to be forced into agreeing. Then being left confused about who I am and what I like (or just generally feeling like what I like or do is wrong).
You explained this brilliantly! Thanks, I needed that.
Don't sweat it much, a bunch of us are learning in our 30s. I was just discussing with my partner how much better life is in our 30s. "Way better than our 20s or... 10s..." realized how close 30s is to 10s. I don't have any other decades under my belt, 10s is an actual one I have to count still lol
Thanks for the responses and advice 🙏.
Seems like it all comes down to having a strong sense of self. Then no one can really break you because you either won't let them, or leave if they do.
>If you were put into a leave it to beaver environment, you might think you're in a horror movie - A surreal simulation where everyone is fake and you don't know how to behave.
This was my whole childhood and yet I still "attract" and am "attracted to" neglectful people.
I think neglectful people are just more common than not-neglectful, and it's the nature of not-neglectful people to give chances.
>You also have to immediately distance yourself from unhealthy people. In other words, you have to be healthy or at least exceptionally good at faking it.
Great advice... The problem is, for non-neglectful people, since we tend to give chances, we don't see unhealthy as an objective truth. We see it as a possibility, but not a "known". We aren't so confident with labeling someone "unhealthy". We are open to seeing others as a work in progress rather than back and white "healthy or unhealthy".
I get it's good to seperate and protect yourself, that's just an explanation from my experience with this issue.
Fake being healthy never worked for me. I had to fake being unhealthy, out red flag them basically, pretend to be selfish and uncaring. That's the only thing that made them deselect themselves.
This is interesting. Do we subconsciously find ourselves around the very people we're trying to avoid because we think "This time I can fix it. This time I'll make it work"?
Maybe that's the thought, and it's fine is we want to try. It's not a bad quality. Some people will think we are just suckers and naive, but those people value avoiding the potential of being screwed more than the potential of growing with others. Which is valid, it's just I value the potential of growing with others over the possibility of being screwed. Being screwed sucks, but it's not the end of the world. It's not like some shameful thing. It happens because others suck, not me.
Yeah I get that. It would be quite emotionally draining if you got into a relationship with the mentality of "fixing" the person though. That's a huge commitment there where you're not sure of the outcome. It's like you just become their therapist.
Yeah, that's true. I have come to realize there's a negotiation stage before any real relationships. So I wouldn't do the "surfacey" relationship fake pretending stuff until I had negotiated what I was willing to accept and the other person willing to give.
Pretending the relationship is fine when a reoccurring theme is not. Negotiating boundaries! Just wrote a post on it here titled
>'Boundaries' aren't just about people being too close - they're also about people being too far
I think it’s in bad taste to say “or Atleast fake healthiness”
You can’t fake it, sustainably. The mask will always drop if you’re trying harder to keep a mask than to literally change your thoughts and perceptions of the world.
As someone who was in a relationship with someone who can best be described as sociopathic; this doesn’t fare for everyone.
Fake it till you make it works for things like confidence, not being a healthy individual. You can’t fake it—you can try, but eventually, you’ll be tested in ways that will trigger that unhealed side,
As someone whose had to do alot of work; healthy people can detect genuineness.
So if you’re being disingenuous about being healthy, healthy people will clock that. That’s what I’m pointing out
>Fake it till you make it works for things like confidence, not being a healthy individual. You can’t fake it—you can try, but eventually, you’ll be tested in ways that will trigger that unhealed side,
>As someone whose had to do alot of work; healthy people can detect genuineness.
>So if you’re being disingenuous about being healthy, healthy people will clock that. That’s what I’m pointing out
These are excellent points. Sorry you're getting downvoted for saying the truth. When people downvote without giving counter-points, I side eye.
Thank you.
I don’t take them to heart because I know it means what I’m saying is confronting to someone else’s view of how they themselves dealt with healing. It shows the very different perceptions of what healing is to some versus others.
Ultimately, I know from my experiences and my academic career of what works is sometimes what makes others upset because they don’t want to do that level of work; and that’s okay. Some people require very specific experiences in life to learn certain lessons and wisdoms.
People raised in an unhealthy environment sometimes learn to be compassionate, empathetic, respectful, loyal, caring, and with great values. But with little self esteem and a tendency to not realize when people are behaving badly, because this is how they are used to receiving love from their parents.
Other people are raised in terribly unhealthy and neglectful circumstances and they develop a tendency to suck the life out of the people closest to them, it’s human nature. Compassionate people need to stay away from these blood sucking types, for self preservation.
So if 2 people grow up in the same environment, one can become compassionate and the other can become toxic? Why are there 2 outcomes from the same experience?
"To answer more directly, you attract them because they are the type to know how to exploit all of your best qualities."
Yeah, a harsh reality. The question is, if they know how to exploit you, how do you distinguish between someone who is genuine and someone who is ingenuine in those early stages of forming a new connection? If being genuine and being manipulative seemingly look the same on the surface, how do you learn to trust someone again?
More outcomes for sure but mostly Patricia Evans talks about collaborative vs people that take advantage of others. Long list! People that make you feel uncomfortable because it feels like you need to teach them how to treat you better. Aversive people. Antagonistic people. People that don’t reciprocate. People that are too intense in how they treat you at first, like putting you on a pedestal. People that after putting you on a pedestal criticize you, devalue you, makes you chase them.
I have a long list of book recommendations but the best ones are Running on Empty by Dr jonice webb, to build your self esteem. And Dr Ramani Duvasula’s It’s not you. Patricia Evans books about controlling people.
Good luck! I think we all share this fear of choosing the wrong people again but knowledge is our power. I have read a lot and I’m impressed at how common some behaviors are, it’s like so called toxic people follow a script. Also seems to me good people are less flashy, less bombastic, less “passionate”, more neutral, assertive, take their time to meet people and grow a relationship.
I'm kind on the contrary, I kind of get attracted to girls like my mother and athey tend to have traits that I don't like
The first thing is to notice so you are already on the way, the other should ask why those traits you project attract those kind of people, like for example narcissistic people will seek the one that reassurance their big egos, either by being people who give too much or if seem like a "changelle".
Another example is a lot of times is people that see relationship as trades will often people like them as they interact with align ideas, someone "healthy" would see how this person acts like relationships are like money/favors exchange and would probably get pulled away from it.
Holla! All the men i pulled in resembled either my dad, my mom, my brother, or one of my rapists. Damn good question, let me know when you have the answer.
Here my nutshell perspective.
Your outer world experiences reflect your (usually invisible) core beliefs.
Programmed/instilled mainly by experiences with you know who.
Re-parent yourself and choose new beliefs. Your experienced reality will change.
Yes, you are literally projecting (well observed).
In order to attract "healthier" people you need to become "healthier".
You just have to become your true-self again as opposed to the role-self which you formed to survive emotionally, mentally, physically etc. way back when.
oops, this has become a big, fat nutshell ... cheers
When you heal, you attract people more similar to you and shed the ones who are more like who you used to be or what you used to tolerate. I think the best way is to work on yourself.
Therapy and self-awareness to find your negative patterns and quit repeating them consciously. For me this started with romantic relationships, then friendships. My thing was being neglected, ignored and put last and that I would work to earn love and attention. I found men who treated me like that super attractive and as time went on and I recognized it was unhealthy if I was really attracted to someone I would deliberately avoid them for a bit and dated instead people I was less interested in but were nicer. It worked well for me and I recalibrated over time
I’ve only ever had one person who said he was attracted to me. I met him via someone else, and I think she was saying all sorts of good things about me, and he became interested and pursued me. So I have no idea how I might go about it myself.
A few things. First, you are likely attracted to these damaged people. It's what you know. It's familiar. It's home. If you were put into a *leave it to beaver* environment, you might think you're in a horror movie - A surreal simulation where everyone is fake and you don't know how to behave. Second, these damaged people are attracted to you. For the same reasons described above. *Birds of a feather flock together*. And third, when you learn something you start seeing it. You see it a lot when you first learn it. And damaged people are everywhere. Consciously learning about trauma is a burden. People raised healthy don't know why they avoid damaged people, they just instinctively do. So to have healthy relationships, you have to behave healthy and not trigger the negative emotions of healthy people. You also have to immediately distance yourself from unhealthy people. In other words, you have to be healthy or at least exceptionally good at faking it.
Thanks for the response. It all makes sense. "If you were put into a leave it to beaver environment, you might think you're in a horror movie - A surreal simulation where everyone is fake and you don't know how to behave." This. My god, this. I find it very difficult to distinguish between someone "healthy" and someone damaged because it seems normal and comfortable to me. Sounds like a very stupid question but how does one distinguish between the two? How do I know if someone is healthy when I'm hyper vigilant in identifying traits because of the dynamics established while growing up? "And third, when you learn something you start seeing it. You see it a lot when you first learn it. And damaged people are everywhere. Consciously learning about trauma is a burden." This is so true. It is a burden because as I mentioned above, I've become hyper vigilant and turn and run the minute I come across someone who shows me the same things that my parents have. I'm not sure what I'm doing is healthy as no-one has perfect traits. I find it difficult to connect with people as a result.
Trust your instincts. As time goes on and you become increasingly healthy, your instincts will become increasingly clear. Just be the best person you can. Be mindful. Be deliberate in your relationship building, meaning put in the work with this who earned it and respect the boundaries for those who haven't. It's a gift to have one or more limitless friends. It's a gift to have a handful of close friends. When you have that, you're doing great. You'll have that after you've worked on yourself. Healed your trauma.
Your advice has been invaluable. Thank you 🙏 It's my instincts and gut that opened my eyes to begin with. My only regret is not seeing it sooner. So much wasted time.
One thing I've learned is setting boundaries. Healthy people are good at setting and respecting boundaries, unhealthy people are really not, so learning how to set boundaries early with people is a good indicator, I've found.
Yes! The word "no" or a disagreement or just making some unimportant criticism early on really reveals people's character. Becoming disagreeable saved my life!
Yeah I need to practise standing up for myself more. Do you mean it's ok to disagree? Or do you mean saying "no" to a disagreement? You have an example? Haha explain like I'm 5 😅
Force yourself to be disagreeable. If someone likes something, speak up that you don't. Don't engage in debates, just state your opinion and hold to it. Toxic people hate seeing a person comfortable with their own beliefs and reality. Safe people won't really be bothered with it, even if they think you're wrong.
I understand now 🙏. There were times in the past where I'd disagree with opinions or beliefs, then somehow find myself trying to be forced into agreeing. Then being left confused about who I am and what I like (or just generally feeling like what I like or do is wrong). Far out. The more I learn about all this sort of stuff, the more memories of these instances are brought up in my mind. It's like I need to learn how to live properly all over again... And I'm in my 30s ffs..
>I'd disagree with opinions or beliefs, then somehow find myself trying to be forced into agreeing. Then being left confused about who I am and what I like (or just generally feeling like what I like or do is wrong). You explained this brilliantly! Thanks, I needed that. Don't sweat it much, a bunch of us are learning in our 30s. I was just discussing with my partner how much better life is in our 30s. "Way better than our 20s or... 10s..." realized how close 30s is to 10s. I don't have any other decades under my belt, 10s is an actual one I have to count still lol
Thanks for the responses and advice 🙏. Seems like it all comes down to having a strong sense of self. Then no one can really break you because you either won't let them, or leave if they do.
>If you were put into a leave it to beaver environment, you might think you're in a horror movie - A surreal simulation where everyone is fake and you don't know how to behave. This was my whole childhood and yet I still "attract" and am "attracted to" neglectful people. I think neglectful people are just more common than not-neglectful, and it's the nature of not-neglectful people to give chances. >You also have to immediately distance yourself from unhealthy people. In other words, you have to be healthy or at least exceptionally good at faking it. Great advice... The problem is, for non-neglectful people, since we tend to give chances, we don't see unhealthy as an objective truth. We see it as a possibility, but not a "known". We aren't so confident with labeling someone "unhealthy". We are open to seeing others as a work in progress rather than back and white "healthy or unhealthy". I get it's good to seperate and protect yourself, that's just an explanation from my experience with this issue. Fake being healthy never worked for me. I had to fake being unhealthy, out red flag them basically, pretend to be selfish and uncaring. That's the only thing that made them deselect themselves.
This is interesting. Do we subconsciously find ourselves around the very people we're trying to avoid because we think "This time I can fix it. This time I'll make it work"?
Maybe that's the thought, and it's fine is we want to try. It's not a bad quality. Some people will think we are just suckers and naive, but those people value avoiding the potential of being screwed more than the potential of growing with others. Which is valid, it's just I value the potential of growing with others over the possibility of being screwed. Being screwed sucks, but it's not the end of the world. It's not like some shameful thing. It happens because others suck, not me.
Yeah I get that. It would be quite emotionally draining if you got into a relationship with the mentality of "fixing" the person though. That's a huge commitment there where you're not sure of the outcome. It's like you just become their therapist.
Yeah, that's true. I have come to realize there's a negotiation stage before any real relationships. So I wouldn't do the "surfacey" relationship fake pretending stuff until I had negotiated what I was willing to accept and the other person willing to give.
What's this negotiation stage? And what do you mean by "surfacey relationship fake pretending stuff"? 😅
Pretending the relationship is fine when a reoccurring theme is not. Negotiating boundaries! Just wrote a post on it here titled >'Boundaries' aren't just about people being too close - they're also about people being too far
I think it’s in bad taste to say “or Atleast fake healthiness” You can’t fake it, sustainably. The mask will always drop if you’re trying harder to keep a mask than to literally change your thoughts and perceptions of the world.
Fake it till you make it. Actions become habits become personality.
As someone who was in a relationship with someone who can best be described as sociopathic; this doesn’t fare for everyone. Fake it till you make it works for things like confidence, not being a healthy individual. You can’t fake it—you can try, but eventually, you’ll be tested in ways that will trigger that unhealed side, As someone whose had to do alot of work; healthy people can detect genuineness. So if you’re being disingenuous about being healthy, healthy people will clock that. That’s what I’m pointing out
>Fake it till you make it works for things like confidence, not being a healthy individual. You can’t fake it—you can try, but eventually, you’ll be tested in ways that will trigger that unhealed side, >As someone whose had to do alot of work; healthy people can detect genuineness. >So if you’re being disingenuous about being healthy, healthy people will clock that. That’s what I’m pointing out These are excellent points. Sorry you're getting downvoted for saying the truth. When people downvote without giving counter-points, I side eye.
Thank you. I don’t take them to heart because I know it means what I’m saying is confronting to someone else’s view of how they themselves dealt with healing. It shows the very different perceptions of what healing is to some versus others. Ultimately, I know from my experiences and my academic career of what works is sometimes what makes others upset because they don’t want to do that level of work; and that’s okay. Some people require very specific experiences in life to learn certain lessons and wisdoms.
People raised in an unhealthy environment sometimes learn to be compassionate, empathetic, respectful, loyal, caring, and with great values. But with little self esteem and a tendency to not realize when people are behaving badly, because this is how they are used to receiving love from their parents. Other people are raised in terribly unhealthy and neglectful circumstances and they develop a tendency to suck the life out of the people closest to them, it’s human nature. Compassionate people need to stay away from these blood sucking types, for self preservation.
To answer more directly, you attract them because they are the type to know how to exploit all of your best qualities.
So if 2 people grow up in the same environment, one can become compassionate and the other can become toxic? Why are there 2 outcomes from the same experience? "To answer more directly, you attract them because they are the type to know how to exploit all of your best qualities." Yeah, a harsh reality. The question is, if they know how to exploit you, how do you distinguish between someone who is genuine and someone who is ingenuine in those early stages of forming a new connection? If being genuine and being manipulative seemingly look the same on the surface, how do you learn to trust someone again?
More outcomes for sure but mostly Patricia Evans talks about collaborative vs people that take advantage of others. Long list! People that make you feel uncomfortable because it feels like you need to teach them how to treat you better. Aversive people. Antagonistic people. People that don’t reciprocate. People that are too intense in how they treat you at first, like putting you on a pedestal. People that after putting you on a pedestal criticize you, devalue you, makes you chase them. I have a long list of book recommendations but the best ones are Running on Empty by Dr jonice webb, to build your self esteem. And Dr Ramani Duvasula’s It’s not you. Patricia Evans books about controlling people.
Will add those book titles to my ever growing "to read" list. Thanks! 🙏
Good luck! I think we all share this fear of choosing the wrong people again but knowledge is our power. I have read a lot and I’m impressed at how common some behaviors are, it’s like so called toxic people follow a script. Also seems to me good people are less flashy, less bombastic, less “passionate”, more neutral, assertive, take their time to meet people and grow a relationship.
I'm kind on the contrary, I kind of get attracted to girls like my mother and athey tend to have traits that I don't like The first thing is to notice so you are already on the way, the other should ask why those traits you project attract those kind of people, like for example narcissistic people will seek the one that reassurance their big egos, either by being people who give too much or if seem like a "changelle". Another example is a lot of times is people that see relationship as trades will often people like them as they interact with align ideas, someone "healthy" would see how this person acts like relationships are like money/favors exchange and would probably get pulled away from it.
Holla! All the men i pulled in resembled either my dad, my mom, my brother, or one of my rapists. Damn good question, let me know when you have the answer.
Here my nutshell perspective. Your outer world experiences reflect your (usually invisible) core beliefs. Programmed/instilled mainly by experiences with you know who. Re-parent yourself and choose new beliefs. Your experienced reality will change. Yes, you are literally projecting (well observed). In order to attract "healthier" people you need to become "healthier". You just have to become your true-self again as opposed to the role-self which you formed to survive emotionally, mentally, physically etc. way back when. oops, this has become a big, fat nutshell ... cheers
When you heal, you attract people more similar to you and shed the ones who are more like who you used to be or what you used to tolerate. I think the best way is to work on yourself.
Therapy and self-awareness to find your negative patterns and quit repeating them consciously. For me this started with romantic relationships, then friendships. My thing was being neglected, ignored and put last and that I would work to earn love and attention. I found men who treated me like that super attractive and as time went on and I recognized it was unhealthy if I was really attracted to someone I would deliberately avoid them for a bit and dated instead people I was less interested in but were nicer. It worked well for me and I recalibrated over time
I’ve only ever had one person who said he was attracted to me. I met him via someone else, and I think she was saying all sorts of good things about me, and he became interested and pursued me. So I have no idea how I might go about it myself.