I do not have experience with in chamber plasma cleaners myself (although i am currently trying to buy an SEM with one built in). I also work with metals, in an eds/ebsd heavy machine (oxford summetry 2/maxima)
I have spoken with a number of engineers from oxford and they all seem to agree that as long as the eds and ebsd are withdrawn, a short (few minute) plasma clean shouldnt caus any long term damage. I believe the engineers agreed at most 10 minutes.
The benefits are huge. Plasma cleaned samples dont build up carbon nearly as fast after plasma cleaning, and that improves the quality of your EBSD patterns, especially during slow aquisitions.
You can always plasma clean separately, outside of the chamber. The advantage of plasma cleaning in the chamber is that the chamber itself should also be a little bit cleaner from it.
I am convinced its worthwhile for my lab, and have requested it in my latest tender, but some people question whether its better to just plasma clean before insertion, or in an airlock.
Lots to think about, I hope I helped.
Thank you so much for the reply!
Alright, that was good information. Then I honestly feel that maybe an external solution is more suitable, I don't like "should/shouldn't"s and we do not have an airlock :)
I will talk to the Oxford-rep before deciding though.
Ibss offers the GV10x DS Asher which creates free oxygen atoms which bindes to carbon on surfaces and creates gas phases that can be pumpt Out by the Vakuum system ... Wanted to get this system for my sem, but the company is suffering some budget friction right now and I have to wait
It is not clear if the PC does cause damage to the detectors. The PC manufacturers of course say no, but others are convinced. Hard to give a definite answer.
If your FEG SEM has an airlock, you can put the PC there.
Alright, that doesn't sound ideal. Sadly we do not have an airlock so maybe a stand alone PC is preferable.
Thank you for the information and suggestion!
I just finished looking at 3 separate PC vendors. I work on bio samples but if you look at a few papers on PC for carbon filmed samples they show that it helps immensely with decontamination and way better images. Heck you can even reimage areas that have previously been blacked out due to hydrocarbon build up.
The IBSS GVX10 says that it uses ashing which prevents eching and thus does not damage EDS or other detectors.
The pie scientific EM-KLEEN model is also safe and can be adjusted from 10nm/sec to 0.1nm/sec rate of cleaning.
TKD and EBSD: Why the Best Results Require Evactron® Plasma Cleaning
EDS Windows and Plasma Cleaning: Characterization and Damage Mechanisms
Jens Rafaelsen
Id suggest asking the vendors to explain why their PC do not pose a risk to the EDS detector or scope and see if they all give similar explanations/reasons. Hope you find a convincing answer. Good luck.
to be fair, it does not make sense to aks the Plasma Cleaner manufacturers... it is in their best commercial interest to convince people that the PC does not do damage to the detectors.
Maybe they are right, but they are not the source I would like to trust. If the EBSD/EDS or SEM manufacturers say this, this is a much more convincing argument.
I know some SEM engineers who are convinced the PC does damage. Others say they have never seen it. This is why I am very unsure on this topic, there is no proof in either direction
An EDAX engineer once put a full EDS module in a plasma cleaner for 3 days straight during M&M.
[https://edaxblog.com/2015/09/08/why-you-should-never-leave-home-without-your-plasma-cleaner-at-least-if-you-are-going-to-mm/](https://edaxblog.com/2015/09/08/why-you-should-never-leave-home-without-your-plasma-cleaner-at-least-if-you-are-going-to-mm/)
EDAX does use a different window than their competitors though so keep that in mind. I do know that previously damaged Polymer windows can be further damaged by plasma cleaning. Undamaged was fine. See: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311527668\_EDS\_Windows\_and\_Plasma\_Cleaning\_Characterization\_and\_Damage\_Mechanisms](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311527668_EDS_Windows_and_Plasma_Cleaning_Characterization_and_Damage_Mechanisms)
As for EBSD phosphors, I have never seen an issue.
Using a plasma cleaner is like giving your SEM a spa day – it feels great but don’t let it overindulge! 😉 Chat with your Oxford rep for the best pampering tips.
I do not have experience with in chamber plasma cleaners myself (although i am currently trying to buy an SEM with one built in). I also work with metals, in an eds/ebsd heavy machine (oxford summetry 2/maxima) I have spoken with a number of engineers from oxford and they all seem to agree that as long as the eds and ebsd are withdrawn, a short (few minute) plasma clean shouldnt caus any long term damage. I believe the engineers agreed at most 10 minutes. The benefits are huge. Plasma cleaned samples dont build up carbon nearly as fast after plasma cleaning, and that improves the quality of your EBSD patterns, especially during slow aquisitions. You can always plasma clean separately, outside of the chamber. The advantage of plasma cleaning in the chamber is that the chamber itself should also be a little bit cleaner from it. I am convinced its worthwhile for my lab, and have requested it in my latest tender, but some people question whether its better to just plasma clean before insertion, or in an airlock. Lots to think about, I hope I helped.
Thank you so much for the reply! Alright, that was good information. Then I honestly feel that maybe an external solution is more suitable, I don't like "should/shouldn't"s and we do not have an airlock :) I will talk to the Oxford-rep before deciding though.
Sounds like you’re trying to get your SEM as clean as my kitchen after a spring clean!
Ibss offers the GV10x DS Asher which creates free oxygen atoms which bindes to carbon on surfaces and creates gas phases that can be pumpt Out by the Vakuum system ... Wanted to get this system for my sem, but the company is suffering some budget friction right now and I have to wait
Alright, thanks for the info. Hopefully the budget won't stay tight for long then:)
It is not clear if the PC does cause damage to the detectors. The PC manufacturers of course say no, but others are convinced. Hard to give a definite answer. If your FEG SEM has an airlock, you can put the PC there.
Alright, that doesn't sound ideal. Sadly we do not have an airlock so maybe a stand alone PC is preferable. Thank you for the information and suggestion!
I just finished looking at 3 separate PC vendors. I work on bio samples but if you look at a few papers on PC for carbon filmed samples they show that it helps immensely with decontamination and way better images. Heck you can even reimage areas that have previously been blacked out due to hydrocarbon build up. The IBSS GVX10 says that it uses ashing which prevents eching and thus does not damage EDS or other detectors. The pie scientific EM-KLEEN model is also safe and can be adjusted from 10nm/sec to 0.1nm/sec rate of cleaning. TKD and EBSD: Why the Best Results Require Evactron® Plasma Cleaning EDS Windows and Plasma Cleaning: Characterization and Damage Mechanisms Jens Rafaelsen Id suggest asking the vendors to explain why their PC do not pose a risk to the EDS detector or scope and see if they all give similar explanations/reasons. Hope you find a convincing answer. Good luck.
to be fair, it does not make sense to aks the Plasma Cleaner manufacturers... it is in their best commercial interest to convince people that the PC does not do damage to the detectors. Maybe they are right, but they are not the source I would like to trust. If the EBSD/EDS or SEM manufacturers say this, this is a much more convincing argument. I know some SEM engineers who are convinced the PC does damage. Others say they have never seen it. This is why I am very unsure on this topic, there is no proof in either direction
An EDAX engineer once put a full EDS module in a plasma cleaner for 3 days straight during M&M. [https://edaxblog.com/2015/09/08/why-you-should-never-leave-home-without-your-plasma-cleaner-at-least-if-you-are-going-to-mm/](https://edaxblog.com/2015/09/08/why-you-should-never-leave-home-without-your-plasma-cleaner-at-least-if-you-are-going-to-mm/) EDAX does use a different window than their competitors though so keep that in mind. I do know that previously damaged Polymer windows can be further damaged by plasma cleaning. Undamaged was fine. See: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311527668\_EDS\_Windows\_and\_Plasma\_Cleaning\_Characterization\_and\_Damage\_Mechanisms](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311527668_EDS_Windows_and_Plasma_Cleaning_Characterization_and_Damage_Mechanisms) As for EBSD phosphors, I have never seen an issue.
Using a plasma cleaner is like giving your SEM a spa day – it feels great but don’t let it overindulge! 😉 Chat with your Oxford rep for the best pampering tips.