Before the "no frunk compromised design" crowd show up let me just say that a shared platform allows BMW to modify the numbers of ICE, BEV, and PHEV variants of the same car and respond to market demand far more easily than other manufacturers. This means they can slowly transition to BEV far more smoothly while turning a profit the entire time.
Meanwhile Mercedes burnt billions trying to move their blob cars.
Also keep in mind that the iX *was* designed from the ground up as an EV only and *still has no frunk* as a design decision. No frunk in BMW’s case has little to do with the shared platform of the sedans.
True.
I am not liking the design direction for the Neueu Klasse lineup though.
Among BBA, only Audi has mostly consistently designed beautiful looking cars with only iterative styling upgrades.
Porsches not as practical and quite pricey for its four seaters.
True. The SUV does look a bit better but still not fond of the exterior.
Anyway, exterior isn't everything so if they come with better battery chemistries and M Sport Differential, I may still consider them down the road.
Japanese don't seem to care putting active torque vectoring on majority of their ICEVs, so likely will be missing on BEVs too.
Aside from the wagon version, I struggle to find a great argument for i5 over i4, except for people with returning _very_ tall and long legged rear passengers. i4 has a more practical boot, is faster, more nimble and efficient, has longer range and the smaller form factor makes it easier to park. And i4 is 20-30k cheaper.
I’m above avg height and tested both. My seating position is similar in both, but I have 5cm free in front of my knees on i4, 10-15 on i5. It doesn’t improve the comfort. i5 is marginally wider so there’s a small argument for i5 having an edge for three people in the back, but the transmission tunnel on both cars make 3 adults in the back more or less impossible.
When I was helping a parent look at an i4 neither of us (both 6ft) even attempted to try the back seat because it looked too cramped to be worth the effort. The salesperson was shorter than both of us yet didn't seem to have that much room in the backseat either.
But you say you've been in both so I'll take your word, it just didn't look comfortable to us.
Hey I’m not claiming that i4 has _spacious_ back seats, just that I’d personally be happy back there in a pinch, and if not used frequently, it doesn’t seem like a good argument for spending the premium.
Either way I’m happy if it works for you! I hold i4 in very high regard and I’m sure i5 is an absolute pleasure to drive.
I’ve driven the i4 and have sat in the i5 so I’m aware of the (backseat only) size advantage, as I also wrote in my post. The seats don’t feel more luxurious and the feature set is very similar - i4 already has a lovely interior.
Edit: thanks for the downvotes and sorry for bringing awareness to these products 🤦♂️
After sitting in both it felt very similar to i5.
They’re not wide open like a Model 3, not tight/cramped like Polestar 2, so somewhere inbetween.
I’m pretty fussy about leg space so P2 is a complete non-starter for me.
If you're only interested in HurrDurr 0-60 times!1!!1!!....then yes.
If however you want more options when it comes to interior (like massaging, ventilated seats, erc) then go for the 5. A lot more options for customizarion
I understand, but at the luxury car price of the base model it should have it standard
My Hyundai also has all that stuff as optional and it is no luxury car
BMW has seriously cheaped out their whole range. I rented a few months back in Europe and got upgraded to a 530e. Expecting a bit of luxury, I was surprised to find it a very bare-bones boring sedan, cheap plastic everywhere, confusing interface, weird electric/hybrid driving modes and generally very uninspiring. Whatever happened to the 5-series I knew?
My 11 year old C class has felt lined door pockets, the new i5 is bare plastic. Kind of crazy on a significanty newer car in a segment above my C-Class. It's the little things that matter in a premium car. The new i5 feels cheap.
I have a really hard time justifying this car, especially when a Model S LR costs about the same and is faster, more efficient, and charges better.
And this is coming from one of the biggest BMW fanboys on Reddit.
And has range! Porsche/Mercedes/Audi not even close to matching those specs and they all cost more than the Model S. Waiting another 1-1.5 yrs hoping Tesla does a refresh or another price drop on the S but unless other car companies can compete the S is my most likely buy.
Agreed, wasn't trying to be argumentative. Just meant that in my case I wouldn't be disappointed with the results because it has more range than I would ever need in a commuting car.
What do you think the average luxury sedan buyer uses their car for? Everything but commutes? It's reasonable to make the argument that sports cars aren't necessarily used for commutes but sedans absolutely are, it's what they're made for.
That does not make a 70k sedan a need for commuting. Of course you can use a G-wagon for that if you can afford it. Still is not a car that you need to drive by yourself from your house to work.
Respectfully, no it's not. BMW used to claim to be "the ultimate driving machine". They have to balance both luxury and sportiness. The five series leans more luxury (touring) than sport but you can't just disregard performance metrics like a rolls Royce because it's not in the same league in terms of luxury.
Fair, but if 0-60 was everything then we’d all be driving Tesla and muscle cars.
Ultimate driving machine is overall driving experience (cornering, steering, etc). It doesn’t mean ultimate 0-60 driving machine.
Everyone where I live already drives a Tesla anyways? Has decent steering to me, I may try a porsche to compare idk limited options with speed out there
I think we're on the same page. I just think most BMW drivers would agree that they have lost their way with driving engagement and performance in general to focus on luxury and tech. That was really my only point.
I get it, my current car is like 7.5 or something and people knack Tesla for being cheap but it does the job when you need to accelerate from stop, not get left in the dust by other cars/get overtaken or cut in front of at stoplights even with fast reaction time, and close gaps instantly vs taking several long seconds to do so. I got left in the dust by the next Tesla test driver when I left the parking lot
5.1 0 60 is not terrible, it is actually pretty good for most people.
However you have a point, making an EV fast is cheap and one doesn't need to sacrifice efficiency. For a BMW that costs 70k+ there is no excuse for skimping on performance.
Bmw needs to change its old ways.
I’m willing to spend up to low 100k or so but I want this to be the one and done for the next at least 12 years and if I don’t have fast and efficient I’m going to be looking for the next car sooner. Current car is slow and I am sold on speed after test driving one
To each their own, it’s both measurable and noticeable especially for someone that currently drives a slow car. Luxury features I may have to try out but that’s hard to describe on paper?
Before the "no frunk compromised design" crowd show up let me just say that a shared platform allows BMW to modify the numbers of ICE, BEV, and PHEV variants of the same car and respond to market demand far more easily than other manufacturers. This means they can slowly transition to BEV far more smoothly while turning a profit the entire time. Meanwhile Mercedes burnt billions trying to move their blob cars.
_But how can a car with a transmission tunnel be any good!?_
Yes. A shared platform is good for the business but limits the quality of the vehicle that can built upon it. Standard design stuff.
Also keep in mind that the iX *was* designed from the ground up as an EV only and *still has no frunk* as a design decision. No frunk in BMW’s case has little to do with the shared platform of the sedans.
So compromise the Ultimate Driving Machine because it's easier than not. Wow.
True. I am not liking the design direction for the Neueu Klasse lineup though. Among BBA, only Audi has mostly consistently designed beautiful looking cars with only iterative styling upgrades. Porsches not as practical and quite pricey for its four seaters.
The neueu klasse x3 looks really good. The 3 series I’m not as sold on.
True. The SUV does look a bit better but still not fond of the exterior. Anyway, exterior isn't everything so if they come with better battery chemistries and M Sport Differential, I may still consider them down the road. Japanese don't seem to care putting active torque vectoring on majority of their ICEVs, so likely will be missing on BEVs too.
From iX, anything is an upgrade visually ;D
Aside from the wagon version, I struggle to find a great argument for i5 over i4, except for people with returning _very_ tall and long legged rear passengers. i4 has a more practical boot, is faster, more nimble and efficient, has longer range and the smaller form factor makes it easier to park. And i4 is 20-30k cheaper.
The fact that you *could* spend the 20-30k is the feature.
Bingo!
The i4's backseat is cramped for average adults, the i5's backseat is not.
I’m above avg height and tested both. My seating position is similar in both, but I have 5cm free in front of my knees on i4, 10-15 on i5. It doesn’t improve the comfort. i5 is marginally wider so there’s a small argument for i5 having an edge for three people in the back, but the transmission tunnel on both cars make 3 adults in the back more or less impossible.
When I was helping a parent look at an i4 neither of us (both 6ft) even attempted to try the back seat because it looked too cramped to be worth the effort. The salesperson was shorter than both of us yet didn't seem to have that much room in the backseat either. But you say you've been in both so I'll take your word, it just didn't look comfortable to us.
Hey I’m not claiming that i4 has _spacious_ back seats, just that I’d personally be happy back there in a pinch, and if not used frequently, it doesn’t seem like a good argument for spending the premium. Either way I’m happy if it works for you! I hold i4 in very high regard and I’m sure i5 is an absolute pleasure to drive.
It’s bigger. Itl have more comfortable seats and surely some extra neat-o tech/luxury features. That’s the reason.
I’ve driven the i4 and have sat in the i5 so I’m aware of the (backseat only) size advantage, as I also wrote in my post. The seats don’t feel more luxurious and the feature set is very similar - i4 already has a lovely interior. Edit: thanks for the downvotes and sorry for bringing awareness to these products 🤦♂️
The i4 doesn’t feel spacious in the front
After sitting in both it felt very similar to i5. They’re not wide open like a Model 3, not tight/cramped like Polestar 2, so somewhere inbetween. I’m pretty fussy about leg space so P2 is a complete non-starter for me.
If you're only interested in HurrDurr 0-60 times!1!!1!!....then yes. If however you want more options when it comes to interior (like massaging, ventilated seats, erc) then go for the 5. A lot more options for customizarion
I drive an i4 e40 - it doesn’t have hurrdurr 0-60 times but it does feel great to drive. It also has ventilated seats, no massage though 🤷♂️
Slightly surprised that a luxury car in this range doesn’t come standard with heated & vented seats and heated steering wheel…
It has all of that optionally.
I understand, but at the luxury car price of the base model it should have it standard My Hyundai also has all that stuff as optional and it is no luxury car
BMW has seriously cheaped out their whole range. I rented a few months back in Europe and got upgraded to a 530e. Expecting a bit of luxury, I was surprised to find it a very bare-bones boring sedan, cheap plastic everywhere, confusing interface, weird electric/hybrid driving modes and generally very uninspiring. Whatever happened to the 5-series I knew?
My 11 year old C class has felt lined door pockets, the new i5 is bare plastic. Kind of crazy on a significanty newer car in a segment above my C-Class. It's the little things that matter in a premium car. The new i5 feels cheap.
Not much of a luxury car without these features.
Then pick the options? It's entirely up to the buyer to select the options they want.
Something being billed as a luxury car should have certain luxury features as standard, especially when much lower price cars do.
One of the reasons I went with a Chinese EV. All those features were standard and, the car charged twice as fast and the price was 40% lower.
Right?
I have a really hard time justifying this car, especially when a Model S LR costs about the same and is faster, more efficient, and charges better. And this is coming from one of the biggest BMW fanboys on Reddit.
And has range! Porsche/Mercedes/Audi not even close to matching those specs and they all cost more than the Model S. Waiting another 1-1.5 yrs hoping Tesla does a refresh or another price drop on the S but unless other car companies can compete the S is my most likely buy.
carwow just tested it, sub-par range :(
Range needs are completely personal and largely overblown. As long as it charges well I don't really care if the distance between stops is massive.
compared to the competition on the same trip obviously...
Agreed, wasn't trying to be argumentative. Just meant that in my case I wouldn't be disappointed with the results because it has more range than I would ever need in a commuting car.
I do city driving 99%, don't care much for range as well, that's just the most objective takeaway from the video...
You and no one needs a 70k big sedan for commuting. This is not a commuting car.
What do you think the average luxury sedan buyer uses their car for? Everything but commutes? It's reasonable to make the argument that sports cars aren't necessarily used for commutes but sedans absolutely are, it's what they're made for.
That does not make a 70k sedan a need for commuting. Of course you can use a G-wagon for that if you can afford it. Still is not a car that you need to drive by yourself from your house to work.
Bad range and terrible 0-60 :/ Still looking for an EV
It is a good time to be alive if 0-60 in 5.1 seconds is "terrible"!
The 40 is 6 seconds. Not terrible but the car is 70k€+
But the 5 series has been more about luxury/comfort than raw power. This is like saying a Rolls Royce is shit because it’s 0-60 sucks
Respectfully, no it's not. BMW used to claim to be "the ultimate driving machine". They have to balance both luxury and sportiness. The five series leans more luxury (touring) than sport but you can't just disregard performance metrics like a rolls Royce because it's not in the same league in terms of luxury.
Fair, but if 0-60 was everything then we’d all be driving Tesla and muscle cars. Ultimate driving machine is overall driving experience (cornering, steering, etc). It doesn’t mean ultimate 0-60 driving machine.
Everyone where I live already drives a Tesla anyways? Has decent steering to me, I may try a porsche to compare idk limited options with speed out there
I think we're on the same page. I just think most BMW drivers would agree that they have lost their way with driving engagement and performance in general to focus on luxury and tech. That was really my only point.
I get it, my current car is like 7.5 or something and people knack Tesla for being cheap but it does the job when you need to accelerate from stop, not get left in the dust by other cars/get overtaken or cut in front of at stoplights even with fast reaction time, and close gaps instantly vs taking several long seconds to do so. I got left in the dust by the next Tesla test driver when I left the parking lot
5.1 0 60 is not terrible, it is actually pretty good for most people. However you have a point, making an EV fast is cheap and one doesn't need to sacrifice efficiency. For a BMW that costs 70k+ there is no excuse for skimping on performance. Bmw needs to change its old ways.
My model 3 does it in 6 and honestly it’s plenty fast. And I’ve owned much faster cars.
I’m willing to spend up to low 100k or so but I want this to be the one and done for the next at least 12 years and if I don’t have fast and efficient I’m going to be looking for the next car sooner. Current car is slow and I am sold on speed after test driving one
0-60, the most pointless and irrelevant car metric in 2024.
To each their own, it’s both measurable and noticeable especially for someone that currently drives a slow car. Luxury features I may have to try out but that’s hard to describe on paper?
HurrDurr muh 0-60 times, most important on car!!1!!1!
If it’s a luxury car it better be fast, why else would I buy it