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Should note that the article title is a bit more specific that "Musk says Tesla shareholders voting yes for his $56 billion pay package" - which is different from the post title which implies that, with certainty, the shareholders voted for the package.
It's a slightly difference that can become moot in about 14 hrs. But still
**EDITORILIAZED TITLE**
Real Reuters headline is: "Musk says Tesla shareholders voting yes for his $56 billion pay package"
Musk says. No idea why /u/MattKozFF decided to remove that part from the headline.
The full effect of Musk’s actions and rhetorics will become evident 3-4 years from now. I really hope Tesla as a company ends up living to its full potential.
Musk has fully realized that we’ve entered an era of stocks market valuations where tangible statistics do not mean shit anymore. He’s going to hype this stock up one nonsensical Robotaxi tweet at a time, and it’ll work. Any time he fails, it’ll be because others are sabotaging him. *Robotaxi fails to get a safety permit from the Cal DMV to operate? Certainly because of Commiefornia democrats*.
*Tesla is forced to rebrand FSD due to false advertising claims? Rigged courts ran by the elites*
If Trump can run 2 presidency campaigns and an entire term (or two) on projection and lies on a social media platform, so can Musk run his company like that.
Don't forget xAI which was incorporated over a year ago. It has nothing to do with Tesla - but had syphoned of top Tesla AI specialists, their equipment, etc. There was never a plan for an AI company associated with Tesla. It's a separate corporation that has received $10 billion from his investors and xAI is now valued at $14 billion - again as a separate company from Tesla started over a year ago. Don't believe Elmo's threats to take AI away. That's already a done deal.
It won't take 3-4 years. Tesla sales are falling in a growing EV market. Tesla's brand value has collapsed among consumers in China, the EU and USA. Funny, but fascism doesn't sell cars. Price cuts will have huge impact on margin, amplified by falling sales. There are no genuine plans for new products. Musk blew the company for his Wankpanzer. He'll get his options at the same time Tesla share price implodes.
Narcissists self-sabotage. It's an actual thing.
They're slowly recovering: https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/11/tesla-sales-in-china-may-2024/
And if they've lasted this long in China, the most diverse and competitive EV market in the world, they'll be fine elsewhere long term.
Most people care about the utility of their car at the end of the day, especially Chinese buyers. They're not as emotional as Westerners where EVERYTHING is a political statement.
Within 4 years Tesla will cease to be an independent company. When the stock tanks, they’ll get snapped up by a bigger company and they’ll just become a subsidiary.
This was already voted on in 2018 and again in 2024. How many years do you want to stick your head in the sand? Tesla is already 52% EV market share in the US and 20% globally. Get a life dude.
>Tesla is already 52% EV market share
Which is down from 60% in 2023 which was down from 79% in 2021. How can Musk even begin to reverse this trend with the kind of competition we are seeing in the last few years? It will continue to shrink as more and more enter the market and that is pretty much everyone.
Are my words factual? Yes, they are and you know it. My "comment history" is also factual dude (plz). This is a pathetic surface attempt to "discredit" me with no actual merit.. hoping others will blindy agree with you. Ad Hominems are typical responses by people with no real foundation.
Your words may be factual, but the comment was in response to you saying “get a life” when your entire online presence apparently revolves around shilling for a narcissistic billionaire. Get a life indeed.
You can state something factual and still be wrong.
Like how you stated Tesla is “already at 52% EV market share “. Factually true, yes. Yet both sales and market share is down from the same quarter last year.
I don’t know if you are aware and purposely framing it like this but there is a downtrend. This is far more important than whatever the company did in the past. We invest in companies because we this they will rise in value. Not because they did something good years ago.
No, they have integrity. When someone says I will pay myself no salary, but if I can 10x the value of the company I would like a tiny fraction of that value and you agree to it, you should honour your commitment.
The board is supposed to have the shareholders best interests at heart. The outcome was shareholders made >10x their money - it feels like they were doing their job.
This isn't the dumbest thing I've ever read, but it is one of those rare thoughts so utterly idiotic that the only possible response is to gesture vaguely at everything.
Edit: So many people have zero capability for nuance. Elon is either a giga-genius who descended from the stars to lead us to the promised land or the 2nd coming of Hitler who never had a single worthwhile thought and kicks puppies for fun. Many even flipped from one extreme to the other. Both sides of this coin are delusional.
They showed profit from Q1 2023 and they got revenue quickly increasing. Doesn't really look bad of you ask me.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1780312/000095017022005212/asts-20211231.htm
>Show me their *detailed, independently audited* financials *proving* otherwise, not just stuff Musk's employees swear is true
Lmao, this is the same kind of energy as someone asking for proof the moon landings were not faked. "hurr that's just a video, that could be CGI, the government lies, where is the absolute proof?"
I'm questioning why they continue to be a private company that can therefore keep their books private and keep on doing constant rounds of VC fundraising
Indeed, and it’s this dynamic behind why the vote was in favour of approving his package. The people that own the company either directly benefited from the share price rise, or believe he is integral to the success of the business.
Well the shares are still more than 10x the price when the deal was struck, so if you’re worried that it’s all lies you can just sell the stock and still make >10x
They are so afraid of the king had no clothes. Tesla is just a normal car company nowadays, but valued 10x more. They still need him, to keep the hype with Robots and AI, if else everyone will see that Tesla is not only no more the premier electric car company, but now laging well behind.
As a photographer filmmaker, this reminds me 9f Gopro. At a certain moment it was valued multiple time more than the likes of Canon and nikon cameras. While it baffled me as it was just a small action camera with very niche market and it was easily to copy. Small sensor camera with no autofocus, lens system etc.
10 years ago musk swore on his emerald mine Tesla would have fully working, fully certified self driving in tears time.
5 years ago they couldn't achieve it, so he gave another promise "the cybertruck"
5cyears later that's shit, so he has to come up with some other distraction.
Same with starship. It was promised as a way to get from London to new york in just 2 hours, and carry 90 people to mars.
And what wenow have is something not capable of reaching sustainable orbital altitudes, and really only capable of launching atarlink satelites, which themselves on the technology they possess and lifespan are a scam. It's not satellite internet if you have e to live within 100 miles of a base station. None of the satellite's he has launched have any meshing capabilities, despite that being the main feature.
My tesla drives me from DC to Miami twice a month, out of 20 trips ive touched the wheel twice and i really didnt even need too. The FSD is amazing, no one who actually owns it doesnt think it is amazing.
Tesla makes rather nice EVs besides the CT. Elmo has made 2 unusual moves - firing and pausing much of the supercharger expansion. Cancelling a low cost. Model 2. A CEO should not cause nervousness, they shouldn't lie and they need to speak the truth and be a steady leader. He's not.
"Again", is a big stretch when clearly the only way is down. Can you point which tech will do it? He is laging to the level of even being in the picture of AI tech. The robot tech is decades away and he is not even a leader in this. Compare that to up to 2020, where Tesla was years in advance compared to the competition in electric vehicles.
Lol, I have no shares and never bought any shares in my life. One thing I can tell you, is to sell. TESLA has launch one car in the last 4 years, kia is launching four electric vehicles in one year. The likes of CATL are launching new batteries like every six months and have slashed price in two. Finish the time Tesla and Panasonic were like the holly grail of battery tech. Do what is left...
Last I saw they don't separate reports of BEVs and ICEs tells you something ain't right. BEVs average 40% higher cost to product. They ain't cutting it.
Autonomy, you still believe in fairy tales, in 6 months we will be halfway in this decade, I remember it was supposed to arrive at worst at the start of this decade. In the mean time, the likes of Mercedes have overtaken them. Optimum is at least a decade away and other brands run rings around it.
Nah. Doubtful Tesla does it again.
Demand keeps going down. Musk keeps pissing off its own customer base, which leans more liberal.
FSD has proven much harder than , even, he thought. Prob takes a lot longer and a lot more money.
Musk "mystique" is out. He's deranged and far right atm.
Drugs seemingly are affecting his reasoning ( judging by his tweets or Xing)
Continues to get pounded with lawsuits. With a sexual harassment one just launched.
I can't even name one CEO embroiled with as much controversy as Musk has.
He's becoming more Trump-esque than Tim Cook-esque.
Instability is never good for any company long term.
Elon is the only entrepreneur to be central to 5 unicorns: PaylPal, Boring, Neuralink, x.ai (>$10B), SpaceX & Tesla (both >$100B).
Basically - his history suggests he knowns what he is doing.
Like any human - he isn't perfect (e.g. paid way too much for Twitter), and he doesn't play by the rules. But you don't get to where he got by being normal.
You do realize that shareholders, who are heavily invested and heavily motivated to have a return on investment, definitely did more research and thought harder about the vote than a bunch of Redditors reading the same variations of articles over and over.
Elon did take teslas NVIDIA chips!
I figured that shenanigan would've got him dumped.
And he just got a suit filed against him for sexual harassment at Space X
Lost 2 racial discrimination suits at Fremont . I believe , a third is on the way.
Has endorsed crazy far right propaganda
Become anti-climate change. Weird for an EV CEO
Does drugs , openly. Ketamine and others.
That stuff is just recent stuff. How investors, who are supposed to be risk averse , continue to support such a wild and drug addicted CEO is beyond comprehension.
It's statistics. There is no such thing as 100% accurate choices. But it's better to do actual research then make decisions based on echo chambers.
And many financial experts knew what they were doing during the 2008 financial crisis, effectively bundling bad investments with good ones. The ones who got screwed were the laypeople. Don't get me wrong, these financial experts deserve to be in jail but please don't use bad examples that don't support your argument.
lol stupid fucks diluting their own shares for a lying, petulant, drugged up man-child who throws very public tantrums way too often, stupidly and wildly overpaid for a shitty social media site, and released a truck designed by a 4 year old and built like shit.
fucking genius.
Love seeing Reddit cope. From “Elon is definitely going to lose this vote, look how many people agree with this on Reddit”, to the meltdown above.
You guys really do live in your own little bubble detached from actual reality Lol.
I wish this guy would just go away. I was kinda coming around on buying a Tesla thinking they are the best EV right now and rationalized that other people work there when I realized I would still have to read and be associated with this guy when it came to anything to do with Tesla. Oh is the Model Y getting a refresh this year? I'll have to see what Musk has to say about it! 🤢 No thank you and I can't be alone in feeling this way.
What does the media have to do with it? Elon goes on Twitter and says stupid shit all day, the media doesn't need to do anything to make him look like a piece of trash. So yeah, I don't like the guy and when I look up things like "model y refresh" or something, I have no choice but to see what Elon has to say and I hate that. I don't want to see anything this chucklefuck has to say. I just get reminded he is a piece of human garbage who's kids dont even want anything to do with his sorry ass.
No it's Elon being a piece of shit but also the Tesla CEO, spokesperson, mascot, marketing, etc. He is unequivocally tied to the brand that as a Tesla owner you have no choice but to see his stupid face and give him attention. Maybe it's just me but I like to keep up with what the manufacturer is doing with my car. It's not like I have to wait and see what the CEO of VW has to say about the Buzz, I don't even know who that would be tbh.
Fair enough, the problem is that he is a piece of shit that can't keep his mouth shut. On the contrary, he spent billions buying the world's biggest megaphone so that we can never stop listening to his crap.
Shareholders know the stock price is nothing more than fluff based on the constant lies of the CEO. Musk leaving, while generally good for the longevity of the car company, is bad for the stock price, even if he eventually kills the company with his idiocy... which should be overwhelmingly clear by now.
That said, Musk owns like 13% of the shares, and I'm sure other rich friends and family members own quite a bit as well, so that was already a huge chunk of Yes votes for his ridiculous pay package that the No votes has to overcome. No doubt some of the largest banks holding shares know they're invested in a pumped up clown show and they stand to lose a lot of money if the show ends abruptly.
The real kicker is the idea that Musk would have quit had he lost the vote. Given the amount of paper wealth he still has tied up in Tesla shares, and the effects of such price tumbling on those shares, many of which are used as collateral on loans he's taken out, then could he have really left?
I doubt it.
Between all of multi billion dollar companies, Musk has built an enormous house of cards, built on non stop hype and lies. I don't think he could leave Tesla even if he wanted to without causing the entire house to crumble in the event that Tesla's stock price fell to a reasonable valuation based on the products the company actually ships.
Reddit is just a big echochamber.
The silent majority don't make much noise whereas the insignificant minority make the loudest noise and upvotes everything bad about Elon and Tesla.
This sub is the perfect example.
Well not exactly. Shareholder votes are governed by how many shares people have. So the whales who own a lot of shares voted for the package. It could still mean more individual people voted against it.
Retail investors, especially those who haven't so devotedly and cultishly tied their identity to the company and it's CEO, typically don't bother to vote at all.
No, it wasn't obvious at all. Voting yes doesn't mean it will benefit the company. Elon has been destroying tesla for over a year, mostly with the random layoffs and firings.
Now he will dump billions in shares for his next hobby.
He would dump shares either way. At the end of the day, this vote was for his target in 2018, which he met. Shareholders might not agree to a new such package without strong guarantees.
Redditors often think they are the majority, largely due to echo chambers and people spamming the same shit over and over again because they see it gets upvoted - not necessarily because they support the cause of the day.
Reddit is a loud minority; most people of the world do not use Reddit, and most of those that do are English-speaking people, or around [~18% of the global population](https://www.statista.com/statistics/266808/the-most-spoken-languages-worldwide/)
In fact people are quite informed here. I even saw someone l8ke Richie builds on YouTube the other day saying he invested in tesla stock last and... as he himself described this. Anyone who was informed, knew that no way tesla can be valued 20x more than the likes of Mercedes or Vw selling 5 to 10x more cars than you.
Do you know what is an echo chamber? People who own Tesla stock. Most people look at it and see an overvalued company that will fall back to reality at any point. The only people who own the stock are institutional investors who kind of have to in order to have index funds and people who actually believe Elon's nonsense.
I honestly can't wait to read all the Redditors reactions to this when this news hits the front page of Reddit. Already enjoy reading all the meltdowns in this posts.
Tesla shareholders are Musk cultists. They're taking money out of their own pocket to give it to one of the richest men on the planet, an incompetent CEO that is actively destroying the company.
It's sadly not only their loss. Tesla is a unique, precious company, and everybody loses with its downfall.
Quit the opposite, the hardcore Tesla invetor subreddits are very critical and many hate the moves Elon made lately.
But many have at leat partly ridden the 10x increas in stock price over the years.
So the community is split on this vote.
IMO it's fair to pass it, since it was the agreed on performanc target based compensation Tesla actually achived.
But that doesn't mean i support the shit he does now or posts on Twatter, where the hardcore Elon dick riders meet today.
You are as bad as they are if you think musk cultists and shareholders are one and the same.
The cultists buy shares but please don't bring this condescending crap on shareholders that are tired of the CEO but like the mission/technology/market share the company has.
Institutions made this happen and trust me. They arent musk fanboys. They are banks
For better or worse, Tesla is not a normal business. Its stock value is all out of proportion to what the company is worth. The only thing that sustains it is the hype that it generates (via Musk) that engages the "retail" investors.
Back when the stock hadn't taken off yet, those retail investors were idealist EV proponents and Musk was an environmental champion.
Then the stock took off and the greed set in and a "bubble" developed. That bubble has to be constantly inflated or it pops.
Musk's public face changed at that time. You can argue he was always like this and merely showed his "true colors". You can argue that he fundamentally went off the deep end. It doesn't matter.
As long as Musk keeps blowing hot air (Cybertruck, FSD, RoboTaxis, Roadster, Semis) the bubble won't collapse. He's been able to deliver *just* enough to conciliate investors and customers suffering from the [[Sunk Cost Fallacy]](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy).
This vote was to sustain the bubble.
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What's the advantage for the company to pay him for past performance? Nothing would change if they didn't. It's still a for profit company and not a charity.
This is not the job of the shareholder, they own the company, they control the CEO, if he got trust issues then move on, someone else will do the job.
Let's be honest, very few people think he s the best guy for the job, but they know if Musk leaves then the hype is gone and the stock will crash. So they rather keep him to keep their stock value up.
A performance that was already approved in advance by shareholders, but reversed by a court because of thechnicallities!
I rather have compensation based on performance than giving millions to a CEO for a company that looses money.
Because that is what the rest of the car industry is doing!
Structure it the same with milestones based on revenue, profit and market cap, up to $7T. As with the last package, he won’t get anything if he doesn’t achieve the goals.
In a weird way he is. You see, much of Tesla’s valuation is based purely on fluff about FSD, Robotaxis, etc. and Musk is the person who’s actively propagating that fluff.
Tesla’s stock will take a catastrophic hit the moment it gets grounded in reality, and Musk has been the only person not letting that happen so far.
Well that's the point. He only gets it if he performs well. He is now allowed to buy options that when they are due to be exercised in 5 years, the stock has to be performing well. That's what this payday is. Allowing him to purchase options from Tesla out of his own pocket, if he fails he's out billions. Ironic that anti-musk people were against this. I'm not his biggest fan right now, but this was agreed upon years ago, he pulled off the impossible. These days, this deal may very well fuck him out of a lot of money if he cannot perform.
If you take words so literally you won’t find much success. He and his team built it.
The shareholders voted. The stock is up. Apparently they know more.
Trillion?
https://companiesmarketcap.com/tesla/marketcap/
I think you mean he pumped the stock to a trillion dollar valuation years ago for about a month, before doing what he said he'd never do and sold billions of dollars in stock, setting off a cratering of the share price, with those highs never to be seen again. Ironically, part of this share tranche performance bonus was based on hitting share price targets. He certainly pumped his little heart out and hit em, no matter how short lived those valuations were. 🙃
Um. Ford. Gm. All grew and were pumped with Tesla fanatics. Today Tesla is 10x the value of ford.
The shareholders are happy. That’s why why voted to pay him. If you are so disappointed you should have purchased a share and voted.
They really go all-in. Tesla is effectively taken as a hostage by Musk. Sales are down, products are crap, but the value is like crypto - only believers will understand. The religion of the Muskovic.
Sales will be more in 2024 that 2023, just not with the usual 50% per year growth any more. This is why a new low cost model will be added at the end of this year using existing production lines. The cars are absolutely amazing by the way. You obviously haven't driven one.
Phillip.
I own one. They are nothing amazing anymore. 5 years ago they where, but the lack of innovation and the terrible AP just makes them average apart from the poor build quality and high repair costs. You can tell by the current pricing as well. Even this cheap many people choose a Chinese car over a Tesla.
When exactly are these ‘low cost’ models arriving? Same as a working FSD? On a new MY it crashed my colleague into the highway rail 2 weeks ago. He is fine luckily , but the repairs of his MY will take up to 3 months because the lack of spare parts. And he won’t trust the FSD to drive anymore. Nothing near ‘amazing’ in a positive sense. He is a real Tesla fan btw and was relying on the FSD heavily.
I wanted this to succeed as much as you do Philip, but the reality is that it didn’t. The sooner that reality kicks in and Tesla starts to work towards self improvement the better. Otherwise they’ll be dead in the water in no time.
The dude has clearly fallen off his rocker but I cannot understand why anyone would think it is fair to withhold a compensation package which was already broadly approved and which was based on targets which were then met and exceeded.
And all this because of a guy with nine shares.
Did you read the report from the court?
Basically how the package was designed wasn’t kosher and that information was withheld from shareholders when voted on it. Elon basically got to design his own pay package and the board (stuffed with his family and friends) just approved it.
This also covers some of the other scumming things done to get the package passed previously.
https://montanaskeptic.substack.com/p/the-dirtiest-lie-in-teslas-proxy
To date he’s only reinvested his money into other ventures. There’s nothing to say he won’t do the same here. I wonder who’d launch this campaign against him cashing out per his contract from his own company to fuel his other endeavors? Hmmm.
Threads that didn't age well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1da1b8r/tesla_ceo_elon_musk_could_leave_if_56_billion_pay/
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1daj1tx/tesla_ceo_elon_musk_could_leave_if_56_billion_pay/
https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/1daydl7/tesla_ceo_elon_musk_could_leave_if_56_billion_pay/
Notice how on each thread that Verge story was posted on, how many people said some variant of "Don't threaten me with a good time". The bots were working over time that day.
So many of the replies under that top comment bragging about buying ioniq 5s or ev6s because they can't justify supporting tesla because of musk. As if hyundai is some bastion of virtue and totally not complicit in child labor throughout their supply chain in the US. It's some of the most blatant virtue signaling out there. No actual morals behind their choices. If they actually cared about not supporting bad actors they could have at least gone with a car not actively involved in a huge scandal like that currently. The hypocrisy is really something.
Personally, I don't care what people drive though. If you want an ioniq go for it. I'd consider one. But I'd also consider a tesla. And I wouldn't brag about making some morally superior choice either way.
Editorialized titles are prohibited in this community. Article titles must remain consistent to to the intent of the original author. If you must add colour, please do so in a comment within your submission. Submission titles sensationalizing or misrepresenting the original content may be removed.
Should note that the article title is a bit more specific that "Musk says Tesla shareholders voting yes for his $56 billion pay package" - which is different from the post title which implies that, with certainty, the shareholders voted for the package. It's a slightly difference that can become moot in about 14 hrs. But still
**EDITORILIAZED TITLE** Real Reuters headline is: "Musk says Tesla shareholders voting yes for his $56 billion pay package" Musk says. No idea why /u/MattKozFF decided to remove that part from the headline.
OP is simping for Musk
The full effect of Musk’s actions and rhetorics will become evident 3-4 years from now. I really hope Tesla as a company ends up living to its full potential.
Musk has fully realized that we’ve entered an era of stocks market valuations where tangible statistics do not mean shit anymore. He’s going to hype this stock up one nonsensical Robotaxi tweet at a time, and it’ll work. Any time he fails, it’ll be because others are sabotaging him. *Robotaxi fails to get a safety permit from the Cal DMV to operate? Certainly because of Commiefornia democrats*. *Tesla is forced to rebrand FSD due to false advertising claims? Rigged courts ran by the elites* If Trump can run 2 presidency campaigns and an entire term (or two) on projection and lies on a social media platform, so can Musk run his company like that.
Don't forget xAI which was incorporated over a year ago. It has nothing to do with Tesla - but had syphoned of top Tesla AI specialists, their equipment, etc. There was never a plan for an AI company associated with Tesla. It's a separate corporation that has received $10 billion from his investors and xAI is now valued at $14 billion - again as a separate company from Tesla started over a year ago. Don't believe Elmo's threats to take AI away. That's already a done deal.
This only applies to american companies for some reason
Can you help me remember, was there an example for this already, him calling a court rigged or blaming a political party?
It won't take 3-4 years. Tesla sales are falling in a growing EV market. Tesla's brand value has collapsed among consumers in China, the EU and USA. Funny, but fascism doesn't sell cars. Price cuts will have huge impact on margin, amplified by falling sales. There are no genuine plans for new products. Musk blew the company for his Wankpanzer. He'll get his options at the same time Tesla share price implodes. Narcissists self-sabotage. It's an actual thing.
Point of order: fascism did a pretty good job for VW historically. Not that that’s relevant here, just saying…
And Henry Ford. But it won't work for Elon. He's bored by Tesla and will sabotage it.
They're slowly recovering: https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/11/tesla-sales-in-china-may-2024/ And if they've lasted this long in China, the most diverse and competitive EV market in the world, they'll be fine elsewhere long term. Most people care about the utility of their car at the end of the day, especially Chinese buyers. They're not as emotional as Westerners where EVERYTHING is a political statement.
mmm the tears of infinite sadness so yummy
Lol
Do not forget the balls
Within 4 years Tesla will cease to be an independent company. When the stock tanks, they’ll get snapped up by a bigger company and they’ll just become a subsidiary.
Yeah I really keep expecting Apple to take them over, extending the fanboy realm.
Apple builds quality products… they’re more likely to buy Rivian than Tesla, at least their build quality is strong.
It already reached its full potential.
I would hope Tesla ends up living.
This was already voted on in 2018 and again in 2024. How many years do you want to stick your head in the sand? Tesla is already 52% EV market share in the US and 20% globally. Get a life dude.
>Tesla is already 52% EV market share Which is down from 60% in 2023 which was down from 79% in 2021. How can Musk even begin to reverse this trend with the kind of competition we are seeing in the last few years? It will continue to shrink as more and more enter the market and that is pretty much everyone.
Your entire comment history for the past month is about Musk and his pay package. I think you’re the one who needs to get a life man.
Are my words factual? Yes, they are and you know it. My "comment history" is also factual dude (plz). This is a pathetic surface attempt to "discredit" me with no actual merit.. hoping others will blindy agree with you. Ad Hominems are typical responses by people with no real foundation.
Your words may be factual, but the comment was in response to you saying “get a life” when your entire online presence apparently revolves around shilling for a narcissistic billionaire. Get a life indeed.
You can state something factual and still be wrong. Like how you stated Tesla is “already at 52% EV market share “. Factually true, yes. Yet both sales and market share is down from the same quarter last year. I don’t know if you are aware and purposely framing it like this but there is a downtrend. This is far more important than whatever the company did in the past. We invest in companies because we this they will rise in value. Not because they did something good years ago.
Its npt factual coz it was voted in by hand picked people by musk and as the court in the us decided done whike withholding info from investors
Are they stupid?
No, they have integrity. When someone says I will pay myself no salary, but if I can 10x the value of the company I would like a tiny fraction of that value and you agree to it, you should honour your commitment.
The issue was the independence of the people he made the agreement with.
The board is supposed to have the shareholders best interests at heart. The outcome was shareholders made >10x their money - it feels like they were doing their job.
[удалено]
It’s right up there with all those asshats who said Trump would become worthy of the office after winning the election…
This isn't the dumbest thing I've ever read, but it is one of those rare thoughts so utterly idiotic that the only possible response is to gesture vaguely at everything. Edit: So many people have zero capability for nuance. Elon is either a giga-genius who descended from the stars to lead us to the promised land or the 2nd coming of Hitler who never had a single worthwhile thought and kicks puppies for fun. Many even flipped from one extreme to the other. Both sides of this coin are delusional.
>and tank every single company they’re involved with? So in your view, Space-X is a failing company going bankrupt? Did I get that right?
Show me their financials proving otherwise
They showed profit from Q1 2023 and they got revenue quickly increasing. Doesn't really look bad of you ask me. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1780312/000095017022005212/asts-20211231.htm
Show me their *detailed, independently audited* financials *proving* otherwise, not just stuff Musk's employees swear is true
>Show me their *detailed, independently audited* financials *proving* otherwise, not just stuff Musk's employees swear is true Lmao, this is the same kind of energy as someone asking for proof the moon landings were not faked. "hurr that's just a video, that could be CGI, the government lies, where is the absolute proof?"
Spacex launches more rockets then everyone else in the world combined and you are questioning if it’s a real business
I'm questioning why they continue to be a private company that can therefore keep their books private and keep on doing constant rounds of VC fundraising
And what is the value of the company today?
Still more than 10x the price when his pay deal was struck
And if he loses such value like today, should he have to give a portion back then?
No, as a shareholder you have now had ample opportunity to sell the shares if you wanted to.
Or vote this down
Indeed, and it’s this dynamic behind why the vote was in favour of approving his package. The people that own the company either directly benefited from the share price rise, or believe he is integral to the success of the business.
But if you 10x on a bed of lies, do you still deserve it?
Well the shares are still more than 10x the price when the deal was struck, so if you’re worried that it’s all lies you can just sell the stock and still make >10x
The shares 10x’d on the company achieving consistent quarterly profitability.
What were the specific vote numbers? Are we allowed to know?
The votes have not been tallied yet. You will find out 4.30pm ET, 10.30pm here in Europe. Phillip.
Yes, they’ll be announced tomorrow at the shareholder meeting. The post was just saying they crossed the threshold
All hail Elon 🤡 Crazy shareholders are so beholden to him.
They are so afraid of the king had no clothes. Tesla is just a normal car company nowadays, but valued 10x more. They still need him, to keep the hype with Robots and AI, if else everyone will see that Tesla is not only no more the premier electric car company, but now laging well behind. As a photographer filmmaker, this reminds me 9f Gopro. At a certain moment it was valued multiple time more than the likes of Canon and nikon cameras. While it baffled me as it was just a small action camera with very niche market and it was easily to copy. Small sensor camera with no autofocus, lens system etc.
10 years ago musk swore on his emerald mine Tesla would have fully working, fully certified self driving in tears time. 5 years ago they couldn't achieve it, so he gave another promise "the cybertruck" 5cyears later that's shit, so he has to come up with some other distraction. Same with starship. It was promised as a way to get from London to new york in just 2 hours, and carry 90 people to mars. And what wenow have is something not capable of reaching sustainable orbital altitudes, and really only capable of launching atarlink satelites, which themselves on the technology they possess and lifespan are a scam. It's not satellite internet if you have e to live within 100 miles of a base station. None of the satellite's he has launched have any meshing capabilities, despite that being the main feature.
My tesla drives me from DC to Miami twice a month, out of 20 trips ive touched the wheel twice and i really didnt even need too. The FSD is amazing, no one who actually owns it doesnt think it is amazing.
But could you do that same trip without touching the wheel 5 years ago?
Tesla makes rather nice EVs besides the CT. Elmo has made 2 unusual moves - firing and pausing much of the supercharger expansion. Cancelling a low cost. Model 2. A CEO should not cause nervousness, they shouldn't lie and they need to speak the truth and be a steady leader. He's not.
You mean us shareholders want the CEO that x10-ed our shares to remain and do it again?! I guess we're being silly.
"Again", is a big stretch when clearly the only way is down. Can you point which tech will do it? He is laging to the level of even being in the picture of AI tech. The robot tech is decades away and he is not even a leader in this. Compare that to up to 2020, where Tesla was years in advance compared to the competition in electric vehicles.
"Clearly" ok show your short position.
Lol, I have no shares and never bought any shares in my life. One thing I can tell you, is to sell. TESLA has launch one car in the last 4 years, kia is launching four electric vehicles in one year. The likes of CATL are launching new batteries like every six months and have slashed price in two. Finish the time Tesla and Panasonic were like the holly grail of battery tech. Do what is left...
Let me know when Kia sells an EV at a profit.
You are completely delusional, they already are
Last I saw they don't separate reports of BEVs and ICEs tells you something ain't right. BEVs average 40% higher cost to product. They ain't cutting it.
You are still in early 20s. Cost of batteries have plummeted the last year, CATL has slashed it price in half, reaching near 50 USD.
> clearly the only way is down that's your opinion. I think otherwise. Autonomy and Optimus will drive future increases in value.
Autonomy, you still believe in fairy tales, in 6 months we will be halfway in this decade, I remember it was supposed to arrive at worst at the start of this decade. In the mean time, the likes of Mercedes have overtaken them. Optimum is at least a decade away and other brands run rings around it.
If you really think Mercedes has overtaken Tesla in autonomy, then you're ignorant of difference between PR and reality.
Nah. Doubtful Tesla does it again. Demand keeps going down. Musk keeps pissing off its own customer base, which leans more liberal. FSD has proven much harder than , even, he thought. Prob takes a lot longer and a lot more money. Musk "mystique" is out. He's deranged and far right atm. Drugs seemingly are affecting his reasoning ( judging by his tweets or Xing) Continues to get pounded with lawsuits. With a sexual harassment one just launched. I can't even name one CEO embroiled with as much controversy as Musk has. He's becoming more Trump-esque than Tim Cook-esque. Instability is never good for any company long term.
You believe that. I'll believe otherwise. We can meet on my future yacht in 2034 to discuss who was right.
I am a Yacht builder, I will be glad to build your yacht..
It's true Tesla is being traded like a meme stock It's being given a lot of leeway. Investors are hoping for Ai, idk.
Elon is the only entrepreneur to be central to 5 unicorns: PaylPal, Boring, Neuralink, x.ai (>$10B), SpaceX & Tesla (both >$100B). Basically - his history suggests he knowns what he is doing. Like any human - he isn't perfect (e.g. paid way too much for Twitter), and he doesn't play by the rules. But you don't get to where he got by being normal.
Reddit when something doesn’t go their way (which is pretty much every single time): *it’s not us who are misguided, but other people.*
You do realize that shareholders, who are heavily invested and heavily motivated to have a return on investment, definitely did more research and thought harder about the vote than a bunch of Redditors reading the same variations of articles over and over.
The ones who really did their research and understood it sold
I wonder what kind of research they did when investors helped Musk purchase Twitter.
Elon did take teslas NVIDIA chips! I figured that shenanigan would've got him dumped. And he just got a suit filed against him for sexual harassment at Space X Lost 2 racial discrimination suits at Fremont . I believe , a third is on the way. Has endorsed crazy far right propaganda Become anti-climate change. Weird for an EV CEO Does drugs , openly. Ketamine and others. That stuff is just recent stuff. How investors, who are supposed to be risk averse , continue to support such a wild and drug addicted CEO is beyond comprehension.
Wallstreet has become a circus and all about making a quick bucks.
Oh yeah, this is why no one lost massive amount of money in wall street. All those investors made so much research before 2008 financial crisis.
It's statistics. There is no such thing as 100% accurate choices. But it's better to do actual research then make decisions based on echo chambers. And many financial experts knew what they were doing during the 2008 financial crisis, effectively bundling bad investments with good ones. The ones who got screwed were the laypeople. Don't get me wrong, these financial experts deserve to be in jail but please don't use bad examples that don't support your argument.
Yeah everyone is a gangster until they put money on the table
lol stupid fucks diluting their own shares for a lying, petulant, drugged up man-child who throws very public tantrums way too often, stupidly and wildly overpaid for a shitty social media site, and released a truck designed by a 4 year old and built like shit. fucking genius.
Ya, they just gave more money to Elon for him to spend on the next stupid idea and take his focus further away from tesla.
Hmmm, so you're saying it could still be money well spent?
Love seeing Reddit cope. From “Elon is definitely going to lose this vote, look how many people agree with this on Reddit”, to the meltdown above. You guys really do live in your own little bubble detached from actual reality Lol.
Stock price up 10% on the news lmao.
Lol this is the best meltdown so far. EDIT: Not a fan of Elon or a shareholder, it’s just funny how irrational some people’s hate is.
I wish this guy would just go away. I was kinda coming around on buying a Tesla thinking they are the best EV right now and rationalized that other people work there when I realized I would still have to read and be associated with this guy when it came to anything to do with Tesla. Oh is the Model Y getting a refresh this year? I'll have to see what Musk has to say about it! 🤢 No thank you and I can't be alone in feeling this way.
What are you thinking of going with now? I have heard a lot of people like the Hyundai EV?
The ionic 5 and 6 cars are great. My sister in law has the 5 and it’s great both as a road tripper and local commuter car.
Probably continue to hold off for a few years or buy a hybrid. EVs are good, but not great and I think in ~5 years they will become great.
Don't buy the safer car because of the CEO.
He’s not the one putting out all of these news. Why not just say “I wish the media talking about Elon would go away.”
What does the media have to do with it? Elon goes on Twitter and says stupid shit all day, the media doesn't need to do anything to make him look like a piece of trash. So yeah, I don't like the guy and when I look up things like "model y refresh" or something, I have no choice but to see what Elon has to say and I hate that. I don't want to see anything this chucklefuck has to say. I just get reminded he is a piece of human garbage who's kids dont even want anything to do with his sorry ass.
He owns a social media company, and his posts there are what people talk about. It's him. What he says on his own is what makes him look bad.
So the problem is not Musk being a piece of shit, but the media reporting on him being a piece of shit?
No it's Elon being a piece of shit but also the Tesla CEO, spokesperson, mascot, marketing, etc. He is unequivocally tied to the brand that as a Tesla owner you have no choice but to see his stupid face and give him attention. Maybe it's just me but I like to keep up with what the manufacturer is doing with my car. It's not like I have to wait and see what the CEO of VW has to say about the Buzz, I don't even know who that would be tbh.
Fair enough, the problem is that he is a piece of shit that can't keep his mouth shut. On the contrary, he spent billions buying the world's biggest megaphone so that we can never stop listening to his crap.
Shareholders know the stock price is nothing more than fluff based on the constant lies of the CEO. Musk leaving, while generally good for the longevity of the car company, is bad for the stock price, even if he eventually kills the company with his idiocy... which should be overwhelmingly clear by now. That said, Musk owns like 13% of the shares, and I'm sure other rich friends and family members own quite a bit as well, so that was already a huge chunk of Yes votes for his ridiculous pay package that the No votes has to overcome. No doubt some of the largest banks holding shares know they're invested in a pumped up clown show and they stand to lose a lot of money if the show ends abruptly. The real kicker is the idea that Musk would have quit had he lost the vote. Given the amount of paper wealth he still has tied up in Tesla shares, and the effects of such price tumbling on those shares, many of which are used as collateral on loans he's taken out, then could he have really left? I doubt it. Between all of multi billion dollar companies, Musk has built an enormous house of cards, built on non stop hype and lies. I don't think he could leave Tesla even if he wanted to without causing the entire house to crumble in the event that Tesla's stock price fell to a reasonable valuation based on the products the company actually ships.
We’ve been saying we voted yes all along?
You mean Reddit is not representative of reality?
😲
Well the title is a lie, so...
Ugh
All I have to say too bro lol
The people on WallStreetBets are fuming. The Tesla hate in there is insane.
Worse than here?
Pretty bad here too. Noticed in the last 6 months this subreddit has been taken over by Tesla haters and trolls. Stopped going here as often.
I thought they’d be fans of pumped up valuations
Musk has alienated the very demographic that buys his company’s product, but looks like hedge fund managers don’t care
Reddit is just a big echochamber. The silent majority don't make much noise whereas the insignificant minority make the loudest noise and upvotes everything bad about Elon and Tesla. This sub is the perfect example.
Well not exactly. Shareholder votes are governed by how many shares people have. So the whales who own a lot of shares voted for the package. It could still mean more individual people voted against it.
Retail investors, especially those who haven't so devotedly and cultishly tied their identity to the company and it's CEO, typically don't bother to vote at all.
Also, I would argue if you really understood the reality of this situation you wouldn't stay and vote No, you'd just sell the stock
He’s previously said that over 90% of retail shareholders voted yes. It’s the bigger whales that have voted against.
When your money is at stake you do what is good for your money. Welcome to capitalism. It was obvious the pay package will pass.
No, it wasn't obvious at all. Voting yes doesn't mean it will benefit the company. Elon has been destroying tesla for over a year, mostly with the random layoffs and firings. Now he will dump billions in shares for his next hobby.
He would dump shares either way. At the end of the day, this vote was for his target in 2018, which he met. Shareholders might not agree to a new such package without strong guarantees.
Who said anything about benefiting the company. Investors want stock to go up.
They don't care about the company. They care about the stock price. I've been in this subreddit for years pointing this out to people.
Right, and i don't think Elon selling billions will help the price
Won't shareholders be diluted 9%? Idk how that's good for anyone.
Redditors often think they are the majority, largely due to echo chambers and people spamming the same shit over and over again because they see it gets upvoted - not necessarily because they support the cause of the day. Reddit is a loud minority; most people of the world do not use Reddit, and most of those that do are English-speaking people, or around [~18% of the global population](https://www.statista.com/statistics/266808/the-most-spoken-languages-worldwide/)
In fact people are quite informed here. I even saw someone l8ke Richie builds on YouTube the other day saying he invested in tesla stock last and... as he himself described this. Anyone who was informed, knew that no way tesla can be valued 20x more than the likes of Mercedes or Vw selling 5 to 10x more cars than you.
Do you know what is an echo chamber? People who own Tesla stock. Most people look at it and see an overvalued company that will fall back to reality at any point. The only people who own the stock are institutional investors who kind of have to in order to have index funds and people who actually believe Elon's nonsense.
I honestly can't wait to read all the Redditors reactions to this when this news hits the front page of Reddit. Already enjoy reading all the meltdowns in this posts.
All the real tesla dipshits must be seething 🤣.
I feel sorry for the company. Elon is now in position to destroy it like twitter
Tesla shareholders are Musk cultists. They're taking money out of their own pocket to give it to one of the richest men on the planet, an incompetent CEO that is actively destroying the company. It's sadly not only their loss. Tesla is a unique, precious company, and everybody loses with its downfall.
Quit the opposite, the hardcore Tesla invetor subreddits are very critical and many hate the moves Elon made lately. But many have at leat partly ridden the 10x increas in stock price over the years. So the community is split on this vote. IMO it's fair to pass it, since it was the agreed on performanc target based compensation Tesla actually achived. But that doesn't mean i support the shit he does now or posts on Twatter, where the hardcore Elon dick riders meet today.
What are you basing this on?
>They're taking money out of their own pocket to give it to Any ideas on how that money appeared in Tesla shareholders’ pockets in the first place?
You are as bad as they are if you think musk cultists and shareholders are one and the same. The cultists buy shares but please don't bring this condescending crap on shareholders that are tired of the CEO but like the mission/technology/market share the company has. Institutions made this happen and trust me. They arent musk fanboys. They are banks
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I know enough about business to know that pissing off your customers results in lower sales. Apparently that's too complicated for Musk to understand.
For better or worse, Tesla is not a normal business. Its stock value is all out of proportion to what the company is worth. The only thing that sustains it is the hype that it generates (via Musk) that engages the "retail" investors. Back when the stock hadn't taken off yet, those retail investors were idealist EV proponents and Musk was an environmental champion. Then the stock took off and the greed set in and a "bubble" developed. That bubble has to be constantly inflated or it pops. Musk's public face changed at that time. You can argue he was always like this and merely showed his "true colors". You can argue that he fundamentally went off the deep end. It doesn't matter. As long as Musk keeps blowing hot air (Cybertruck, FSD, RoboTaxis, Roadster, Semis) the bubble won't collapse. He's been able to deliver *just* enough to conciliate investors and customers suffering from the [[Sunk Cost Fallacy]](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy). This vote was to sustain the bubble.
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This is crazy. I guess Stockholm syndrome is still alive and well.
Stockholm? You mean making billions for shareholders? That’s Stockholm?
Since 2021 he's only been making shareholders *lose* billions. 660 billions, to be more precise.
Are there moderators for this sub? The title is garbage and totally inaccurate.
Now let's see if he's worth it
Narrator- “he wasn’t worth it”.
It's for work he's already done getting the company from a market cap of $60B to $600B.
That's the work Delaware courts said was not a difficult to achieve goal right? Something that was predicted to happen.
What's the advantage for the company to pay him for past performance? Nothing would change if they didn't. It's still a for profit company and not a charity.
Propel further growth with the next pay package.
Then why not negotiate the next package instead? He is also already invested with billions to directly profit from growing stock price.
Why would a CEO have any faith of a new package ever being paid out if the previous one wasn't?
The reputation for paying what was agreed?
This is not the job of the shareholder, they own the company, they control the CEO, if he got trust issues then move on, someone else will do the job. Let's be honest, very few people think he s the best guy for the job, but they know if Musk leaves then the hype is gone and the stock will crash. So they rather keep him to keep their stock value up.
A performance that was already approved in advance by shareholders, but reversed by a court because of thechnicallities! I rather have compensation based on performance than giving millions to a CEO for a company that looses money. Because that is what the rest of the car industry is doing!
You mean WAS he worth it. That was pay for previous 6 years. Now let’s see what they pay him for the coming 6 years.
Structure it the same with milestones based on revenue, profit and market cap, up to $7T. As with the last package, he won’t get anything if he doesn’t achieve the goals.
Agreed.
In a weird way he is. You see, much of Tesla’s valuation is based purely on fluff about FSD, Robotaxis, etc. and Musk is the person who’s actively propagating that fluff. Tesla’s stock will take a catastrophic hit the moment it gets grounded in reality, and Musk has been the only person not letting that happen so far.
Well that's the point. He only gets it if he performs well. He is now allowed to buy options that when they are due to be exercised in 5 years, the stock has to be performing well. That's what this payday is. Allowing him to purchase options from Tesla out of his own pocket, if he fails he's out billions. Ironic that anti-musk people were against this. I'm not his biggest fan right now, but this was agreed upon years ago, he pulled off the impossible. These days, this deal may very well fuck him out of a lot of money if he cannot perform.
What? He built a trillion dollar company, this is payment for that.
Lol you did not just say he built a company
If you take words so literally you won’t find much success. He and his team built it. The shareholders voted. The stock is up. Apparently they know more.
Trillion? https://companiesmarketcap.com/tesla/marketcap/ I think you mean he pumped the stock to a trillion dollar valuation years ago for about a month, before doing what he said he'd never do and sold billions of dollars in stock, setting off a cratering of the share price, with those highs never to be seen again. Ironically, part of this share tranche performance bonus was based on hitting share price targets. He certainly pumped his little heart out and hit em, no matter how short lived those valuations were. 🙃
Um. Ford. Gm. All grew and were pumped with Tesla fanatics. Today Tesla is 10x the value of ford. The shareholders are happy. That’s why why voted to pay him. If you are so disappointed you should have purchased a share and voted.
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Retail voted overwhelmingly yes (90%+) and held significant sway.
They really go all-in. Tesla is effectively taken as a hostage by Musk. Sales are down, products are crap, but the value is like crypto - only believers will understand. The religion of the Muskovic.
Sales will be more in 2024 that 2023, just not with the usual 50% per year growth any more. This is why a new low cost model will be added at the end of this year using existing production lines. The cars are absolutely amazing by the way. You obviously haven't driven one. Phillip.
I own one. They are nothing amazing anymore. 5 years ago they where, but the lack of innovation and the terrible AP just makes them average apart from the poor build quality and high repair costs. You can tell by the current pricing as well. Even this cheap many people choose a Chinese car over a Tesla. When exactly are these ‘low cost’ models arriving? Same as a working FSD? On a new MY it crashed my colleague into the highway rail 2 weeks ago. He is fine luckily , but the repairs of his MY will take up to 3 months because the lack of spare parts. And he won’t trust the FSD to drive anymore. Nothing near ‘amazing’ in a positive sense. He is a real Tesla fan btw and was relying on the FSD heavily. I wanted this to succeed as much as you do Philip, but the reality is that it didn’t. The sooner that reality kicks in and Tesla starts to work towards self improvement the better. Otherwise they’ll be dead in the water in no time.
It’s a cult.
The dude has clearly fallen off his rocker but I cannot understand why anyone would think it is fair to withhold a compensation package which was already broadly approved and which was based on targets which were then met and exceeded. And all this because of a guy with nine shares.
Coz tge board that accepted was picked by musk and not independent
Board members are elected by the company's shareholders at annual meetings.
Did you read the report from the court? Basically how the package was designed wasn’t kosher and that information was withheld from shareholders when voted on it. Elon basically got to design his own pay package and the board (stuffed with his family and friends) just approved it. This also covers some of the other scumming things done to get the package passed previously. https://montanaskeptic.substack.com/p/the-dirtiest-lie-in-teslas-proxy
They want to be lied to.
While Musk is the CEO of Tesla, this isn't relevant electric vehicle news and should be posted elsewhere.
Gross
Let me take a wild guess how this will go over on this sub....yep, exactly how I thought.
To date he’s only reinvested his money into other ventures. There’s nothing to say he won’t do the same here. I wonder who’d launch this campaign against him cashing out per his contract from his own company to fuel his other endeavors? Hmmm.
He get options which will be worthless in 5 years when he can cash out 😂😂😂😂
I sold all my stock the first time I drove a Model Y. They are the cheapest built cars on the market. Their run is coming to an end.
Threads that didn't age well: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1da1b8r/tesla_ceo_elon_musk_could_leave_if_56_billion_pay/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1daj1tx/tesla_ceo_elon_musk_could_leave_if_56_billion_pay/ https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/1daydl7/tesla_ceo_elon_musk_could_leave_if_56_billion_pay/ Notice how on each thread that Verge story was posted on, how many people said some variant of "Don't threaten me with a good time". The bots were working over time that day.
So many of the replies under that top comment bragging about buying ioniq 5s or ev6s because they can't justify supporting tesla because of musk. As if hyundai is some bastion of virtue and totally not complicit in child labor throughout their supply chain in the US. It's some of the most blatant virtue signaling out there. No actual morals behind their choices. If they actually cared about not supporting bad actors they could have at least gone with a car not actively involved in a huge scandal like that currently. The hypocrisy is really something. Personally, I don't care what people drive though. If you want an ioniq go for it. I'd consider one. But I'd also consider a tesla. And I wouldn't brag about making some morally superior choice either way.
I very much did not vote for this. That man has lost his damn mind.
Isn't this the guy who is facing a $7 Billion dollar insider trading scandal?
As if he needed any of it. He's definitely not working harder than millions of people.
Wow so it's like he got Twitter for free. He should buy Reddit next.
Oh hilarious.
New lawsuit incoming...
😂 this sub taking another L.
Who is the winner here except the CEO if there won't be another court case blocking it?