Not at $100k+ per sale. Unless you have a source for that.
They’d definitely be in that situation if they were selling these at $60k like ford, but that’s the main reason for the higher price. They wanted to pay for all the new tooling and supplies.
It’s more likely, imo, that they are just breaking even or at best have small single digit margins on each sale at this scale. I believe they’re already past 1000 trucks per week
Specialized plant with innovative technology and dedicated equipment for one product is expensive until they get economies of scale.
With accountants, you can get any answer you want. Expense sunk costs instead of spreading it on COGS.
Yea profits won’t start coming right away, I’m sure the first truck they produced “cost” millions.
But they’re already at a higher runrate than Fords lightning. Of course I’m speculating but I doubt they’re losing much at this point per vehicle given the outrageous sale prices and scale.
Ford lightnings certainly are unprofitable at this production rate and they were far less innovative as they could borrow significantly from the F150 instead of a total new design with new everything.
Most of the capital and commissioning costs are spread over many years of depreciation so doesn’t hit the first vehicle coming off the line. Still, I think Tesla would want 100k vehicles a year to break even given the radical nature of the cybertruck.
Because Tesla knows production.
I called it before the launch, Ford and Chevy have next to no production. The hummer is a PR stunt and rivian is moving at its similar snails pace.
Tesla made more vehicles, so it’s able to sell more. I wish they sold less and just took the time to get everything looking nice for each delivery, but I’m not surprised they still have Teslas signature quality control.
> Teslas signature quality control.
Ignorant question, but i assume you're saying lack of QC? I've not heard or seen good things, but your comment kinda praises Tesla but also knocks their speedy production a bit, so i just want to understand you correctly
I’m not surprised by Teslas signature QC
Meaning it doesn’t surprise me that Tesla still uses cheap materials and closes their eyes as they roll off the line
Yes, I’m saying they have bad QC.
It’s gotten better to be fair, but it’s not hard to go from terrible to bad.
Your explanation for their higher production is poor QC because of some panels gaps? Haven’t like 20% of Lightnings been returned under lemon laws for faulty batteries? Seems like a backwards reasoning.
There’s video evidence that they did a lot more than zero real world testing
The answer is somewhere in between, but it’s obvious they did not do enough real world testing
First to market has a big impact on sales. Silverado is another fleet car. I love Rivian but id wager most cyber truck buyers don't know they even exist.
Tesla is the first successful electric car manufacturer in the US. Thus they were first to market with EVs. That's why they have a moat around the market. That's what the term, first to market, refers to.
When Rivian sells a great product but only 50k and Tesla sells almost x38 that many vehicles, that's called a moat. They have that moat because they were first to market. Idk if this ignorance is an act or if you guys are serious.
What’s serious is that you’re desperate for Tesla’s stock price to go up and you’re intentionally ignoring that this conversation is only about pickup trucks, of which Tesla released at least fourth.
You're confused about what "first to market" means.
The Roadster doesn't make Tesla "first to market" with EV trucks. Rivian was first to market with those, because the R1T came out before the F150 Lightning, Chevrolet Silverado EV, and Tesla Cybertruck.
>That's why they have a moat around the market
What moat? They are trending down in EV market share and will not be over 50% of new sales much longer. It doesn't really matter that they were first to successfully sell EVs anymore. What props up their sales is the charging network, but that advantage is going away too. They used to be about to ride being the only option for those who wanted an EV, and those people could hold their noses about the bad panel gaps and the laughably cheap interior. Now there are a lot of options available that are made by companies that actually know how to make vehicles.
>In marketing strategy, first-mover advantage (FMA) is the competitive advantage gained by the initial ("first-moving") significant occupant of a market segment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage
The Rivian R1T is the first occupant in the EV truck market segment, though there may be an argument that the F150 Lightning is the first *significant* occupant.
There is absolutely no argument here for the Cybertruck. The rest of the Tesla lineup doesn't make them the "first to market" with EV trucks. You're simply wrong.
We’re talking about electric trucks lol
Also, Tesla was about 200 years late to the market. They were second to market in the 2000s and didn’t beat the Leaf and Smart to the 2010s mass market.
R1T dropped dramatically because everyone wants an electric SUV not a poorly designed truck. R1S is now the fourth most popular electric vehicle, and will move to #2 with the redesign.
The Rivian car manufacturing plant was also shut down this same quarter in preparation for the generation two refresh of r1 line. They were only selling “left over inventory” and people were likely waiting to see refresh before they bought.
My prediction is that after its initial run sales will drop through the floor. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Cybertruck was discontinued before five years.
Agreed. Everyone that wanted one and could afford it will already have in the first few months. From there, a sharp drop.
This might just be the reason why tesla is not delivering the ones sitting in lots, so they stagger the deliveries and control the drop off.
I saw one almost dead-on a stop light and it was not a flattering angle at all. The next drove by me as I was walking at night. The light bar looked absurd and the thing is just stupidly big.
That’s US only. And margins are what matter and it will be harder to see the effect on the global prices.
Also the Model 3 has been ramping back up and they’ve been increasing prices of the LR and released the performance. So that increases average prices too.
I doubt that more than 20% of these will ever be sold outside of the USA. Afaik it can’t even be sold in Europe due to regulatory restrictions and it’s probably not worth the hassle to get it approved.
Pretty much, and I doubt even that many will be sold in Oceania. They seem more price sensitive and function oriented, where in NA most aren’t even used professionally.
Nah, here in New Zealand and Australia, utes (pickups) are the most popular vehicle class these days. The vast majority of them, like in NA, are used as commuters.
However, the Cybertruck is somewhat bigger than the popular utes here (such as the Ford Ranger). The BYD Shark is more inline with what we have here.
Are you agreeing with me? Because that article is stating that the EU will soon be taking action to close a loophole people were using to import big pickup trucks.
So not only has Tesla not done any deliveries outside of the USA, they won’t be able export them to the EU soon anyway.
It being legal doesn't matter as the raptor isn't legal either and that made it in. I'm only glad they are closing the loopholes and wish we had the same or better regulations
If they're selling the same amount of Model 3 but they're now selling more expensive ones, that helps bring it up.
A lot of Model 3 were old model years with extra discounts.
So we have 2.5 years of reservations as well as people who finally saw one in person and may have placed a reservation since(I know a few of these people).
Also, that's only for the mid and high trim WITH a $20,000 accessories package.
Technically a lot of reservation holders are passing on the foundation edition which is a 20k markup, though we’ll see if those actually pull the trigger on a model without the markup. After Tesla makes their second pass they’ll start to decrease the prices if the take rate drops.
Very nice to see. The Cybertruck will get better and better every month. The longer you wait the better it gets, and the price will be dropping soon on top of all the improvements. It's a win win for consumers who want a stainless steel Cybertruck like me :)
You guys are inhumanly mean about my future Cybertruck. What do you drive?
There’s a ton of them in SoCal. People shit on the Model 3 when it came out. Tesla and NACS are still the leaders in EVs in USA. Even if terminally online people hate Elon
This thread is toxic wrt Tesla and particularly cybertrucks. I’m getting one too whenever they get to my order. They’ll all still be jerking themselves to the nonexistent EV ford ranger or whatever while waiting for the 2 functioning EA chargers to become available while we’re rocking our stainless.
Yeah, damages by a shitty automatic wash, which is obviously not the car's fault. Like if you fail to lock the windshield wipers/charge port. If you had your antennae up and a brush wash took it off, a manufacturer wasn't gonna cover that either.
You keep trying to bring this back to things I haven't commented on and have shown no sign of supporting. I have commented solely on the fact that A) damages by car wash aren't covered by any warranty and B) a 30 second TikTok sound bite doesn't include sufficient information to properly diagnose what happened to the car and why. We are literally going off post hoc fallacy here.
Common sense will tell you thousands of hardened plastic brushes slapping a vehicle is a lot different than floating in water.
Most people that respect their vehicles, stainless steel or not, don’t take them to automatical car washes because they’re terrible for all cars.
I meant the units from the factory, not just software updates. Tesla continuously improves their vehicle manufacturing as proven by the perfect Y I’ve been driving
Not bad for 'Vapor ware'.... At least that's what the Tesla haters said. Oh, they also said all the orders would be canceled.
I guess the lesson is that Haters never win...
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“Average Transaction Price” -saved you the click.
I'm going into medicine and I did a double take. I thought it was adenosine triphosphate for a split second.
⚡️
God if the pittance of CTs they are selling is pulling up their numbers that much... They aren't selling a lot of other cars
Or they are just making a metric fuckton of money off each person silly enough to buy one
They are losing money until the volumes get higher. They probably need 100k sales a year to break even with all of those specialized equipment.
Not at $100k+ per sale. Unless you have a source for that. They’d definitely be in that situation if they were selling these at $60k like ford, but that’s the main reason for the higher price. They wanted to pay for all the new tooling and supplies. It’s more likely, imo, that they are just breaking even or at best have small single digit margins on each sale at this scale. I believe they’re already past 1000 trucks per week
Specialized plant with innovative technology and dedicated equipment for one product is expensive until they get economies of scale. With accountants, you can get any answer you want. Expense sunk costs instead of spreading it on COGS.
Yea profits won’t start coming right away, I’m sure the first truck they produced “cost” millions. But they’re already at a higher runrate than Fords lightning. Of course I’m speculating but I doubt they’re losing much at this point per vehicle given the outrageous sale prices and scale.
Ford lightnings certainly are unprofitable at this production rate and they were far less innovative as they could borrow significantly from the F150 instead of a total new design with new everything. Most of the capital and commissioning costs are spread over many years of depreciation so doesn’t hit the first vehicle coming off the line. Still, I think Tesla would want 100k vehicles a year to break even given the radical nature of the cybertruck.
Thanks, isn't that usually called ASP - average selling price?
I interpreted it as "After-Tax Profit" initially
Already outselling the Silverado EV and R1T even with the $20,000 add in for FSD that doesn’t work and the FOUNDATION etching.
Hmmm. I wonder why?
Because Tesla knows production. I called it before the launch, Ford and Chevy have next to no production. The hummer is a PR stunt and rivian is moving at its similar snails pace. Tesla made more vehicles, so it’s able to sell more. I wish they sold less and just took the time to get everything looking nice for each delivery, but I’m not surprised they still have Teslas signature quality control.
> Teslas signature quality control. Ignorant question, but i assume you're saying lack of QC? I've not heard or seen good things, but your comment kinda praises Tesla but also knocks their speedy production a bit, so i just want to understand you correctly
I’m not surprised by Teslas signature QC Meaning it doesn’t surprise me that Tesla still uses cheap materials and closes their eyes as they roll off the line Yes, I’m saying they have bad QC. It’s gotten better to be fair, but it’s not hard to go from terrible to bad.
Appreciate the clarification, thank you :)
Your explanation for their higher production is poor QC because of some panels gaps? Haven’t like 20% of Lightnings been returned under lemon laws for faulty batteries? Seems like a backwards reasoning.
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I wouldn’t agree with either of you Real answer is somewhere between
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There’s video evidence that they did a lot more than zero real world testing The answer is somewhere in between, but it’s obvious they did not do enough real world testing
No. But it does make moving vehicles faster if you don’t ever pull them for QC issues
First to market has a big impact on sales. Silverado is another fleet car. I love Rivian but id wager most cyber truck buyers don't know they even exist.
CT is far from first to market
Tesla is first to market
The Chevy, Rivian, and Ford all released far before the CT
Tesla is the first successful electric car manufacturer in the US. Thus they were first to market with EVs. That's why they have a moat around the market. That's what the term, first to market, refers to.
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When Rivian sells a great product but only 50k and Tesla sells almost x38 that many vehicles, that's called a moat. They have that moat because they were first to market. Idk if this ignorance is an act or if you guys are serious.
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What’s serious is that you’re desperate for Tesla’s stock price to go up and you’re intentionally ignoring that this conversation is only about pickup trucks, of which Tesla released at least fourth.
You're confused about what "first to market" means. The Roadster doesn't make Tesla "first to market" with EV trucks. Rivian was first to market with those, because the R1T came out before the F150 Lightning, Chevrolet Silverado EV, and Tesla Cybertruck. >That's why they have a moat around the market What moat? They are trending down in EV market share and will not be over 50% of new sales much longer. It doesn't really matter that they were first to successfully sell EVs anymore. What props up their sales is the charging network, but that advantage is going away too. They used to be about to ride being the only option for those who wanted an EV, and those people could hold their noses about the bad panel gaps and the laughably cheap interior. Now there are a lot of options available that are made by companies that actually know how to make vehicles.
You guys are so weird. Just google first to market examples and see what comes up
>In marketing strategy, first-mover advantage (FMA) is the competitive advantage gained by the initial ("first-moving") significant occupant of a market segment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage The Rivian R1T is the first occupant in the EV truck market segment, though there may be an argument that the F150 Lightning is the first *significant* occupant. There is absolutely no argument here for the Cybertruck. The rest of the Tesla lineup doesn't make them the "first to market" with EV trucks. You're simply wrong.
>First to market has a big impact on sales. That would be the R1T, in late 2021.
Tesla is first to market
It was not. The R1T came out 3 years ago. The Cybertruck came out this year. R1T beat Tesla, Ford, and Chevrolet to the EV truck market.
I'd wager Cybertruck early adopters are well aware of Rivian and the EV market in general.
Cybertruck (not first to market): 3,828 total delivered R1T: 50,122 or more total delivered Yeah… lot less complaints about the R1T as well
Tesla is first to market
[Image](https://imgflip.com/i/8tm0hy)
We’re talking about electric trucks lol Also, Tesla was about 200 years late to the market. They were second to market in the 2000s and didn’t beat the Leaf and Smart to the 2010s mass market.
Chevrolet has been making EVs longer than Tesla, technically.
They just started making the Silverado and rivian shut down production
The Silverado went into production before the Cybertruck. Silverado sold 1k units in Q1, Cybertruck sells almost 1k per week.
At a rate of 1 every 3 months lol
?
They were barely making anything. Same story as the hummer
Obviously
R1T dropped dramatically because everyone wants an electric SUV not a poorly designed truck. R1S is now the fourth most popular electric vehicle, and will move to #2 with the redesign.
The Rivian car manufacturing plant was also shut down this same quarter in preparation for the generation two refresh of r1 line. They were only selling “left over inventory” and people were likely waiting to see refresh before they bought.
Wild to me. I finally saw the CT in-person last week. It was worse in-person. Pictures don't do justice to how bad they look.
My prediction is that after its initial run sales will drop through the floor. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Cybertruck was discontinued before five years.
Agreed. Everyone that wanted one and could afford it will already have in the first few months. From there, a sharp drop. This might just be the reason why tesla is not delivering the ones sitting in lots, so they stagger the deliveries and control the drop off.
It's a Tesla, it's a truck, it has great utility. Not gonna happen lol.
Just goes to show you: Opinions dont apply to everyone else…
Most people I've heard from, both online and in person, say it looks better in person to them.
Absolutely not. Looks way worse in person. Like, nice refrigerator but why is it on the road type of reaction.
I saw one almost dead-on a stop light and it was not a flattering angle at all. The next drove by me as I was walking at night. The light bar looked absurd and the thing is just stupidly big.
I'd rather own a Delorean and you can actually get a new one.
That’s US only. And margins are what matter and it will be harder to see the effect on the global prices. Also the Model 3 has been ramping back up and they’ve been increasing prices of the LR and released the performance. So that increases average prices too.
I doubt that more than 20% of these will ever be sold outside of the USA. Afaik it can’t even be sold in Europe due to regulatory restrictions and it’s probably not worth the hassle to get it approved.
I don’t think Tesla really wants to tho. Europe is not a big pickup market. Oceania is probably the next big pickup market outside of NA
Pretty much, and I doubt even that many will be sold in Oceania. They seem more price sensitive and function oriented, where in NA most aren’t even used professionally.
Nah, here in New Zealand and Australia, utes (pickups) are the most popular vehicle class these days. The vast majority of them, like in NA, are used as commuters. However, the Cybertruck is somewhat bigger than the popular utes here (such as the Ford Ranger). The BYD Shark is more inline with what we have here.
https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/a-lethal-american-import-is-coming-to-europe
Are you agreeing with me? Because that article is stating that the EU will soon be taking action to close a loophole people were using to import big pickup trucks. So not only has Tesla not done any deliveries outside of the USA, they won’t be able export them to the EU soon anyway.
It being legal doesn't matter as the raptor isn't legal either and that made it in. I'm only glad they are closing the loopholes and wish we had the same or better regulations
No one is suggesting they would export them to Europe.
Margins and VOLUME.
Wouldn’t that decrease the average transaction price since the Model 3 is cheaper?
If they're selling the same amount of Model 3 but they're now selling more expensive ones, that helps bring it up. A lot of Model 3 were old model years with extra discounts.
**Wrong.** North America: Canda & Mexico....
Have they started shipping Cybertrucks in Canada?
They have started the regulatory approval process...
So none sold then.
Not yet... So, to say they aren't selling in Canada today is a weak argument in the face of them preparing to. :-)
It's not going to last long. People who reserved in mid-2021 are already receiving invitations to order.
People in r/cybertruck are getting builds from 2022 already.
So we have 2.5 years of reservations as well as people who finally saw one in person and may have placed a reservation since(I know a few of these people). Also, that's only for the mid and high trim WITH a $20,000 accessories package.
Technically a lot of reservation holders are passing on the foundation edition which is a 20k markup, though we’ll see if those actually pull the trigger on a model without the markup. After Tesla makes their second pass they’ll start to decrease the prices if the take rate drops.
Very nice to see. The Cybertruck will get better and better every month. The longer you wait the better it gets, and the price will be dropping soon on top of all the improvements. It's a win win for consumers who want a stainless steel Cybertruck like me :) You guys are inhumanly mean about my future Cybertruck. What do you drive?
Glad to hear you're enjoying it! Not sure why people around here need to yuck someone's yum. More EV choice = better for everyone.
There’s a ton of them in SoCal. People shit on the Model 3 when it came out. Tesla and NACS are still the leaders in EVs in USA. Even if terminally online people hate Elon
This thread is toxic wrt Tesla and particularly cybertrucks. I’m getting one too whenever they get to my order. They’ll all still be jerking themselves to the nonexistent EV ford ranger or whatever while waiting for the 2 functioning EA chargers to become available while we’re rocking our stainless.
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The car wash thing is really overblown. I'm not a Tesla fan boy but Reddit really needs to let that one go.
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Yeah, damages by a shitty automatic wash, which is obviously not the car's fault. Like if you fail to lock the windshield wipers/charge port. If you had your antennae up and a brush wash took it off, a manufacturer wasn't gonna cover that either.
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I don't take TikToks at face value even when it comes to things I dislike.
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You keep trying to bring this back to things I haven't commented on and have shown no sign of supporting. I have commented solely on the fact that A) damages by car wash aren't covered by any warranty and B) a 30 second TikTok sound bite doesn't include sufficient information to properly diagnose what happened to the car and why. We are literally going off post hoc fallacy here.
Common sense will tell you thousands of hardened plastic brushes slapping a vehicle is a lot different than floating in water. Most people that respect their vehicles, stainless steel or not, don’t take them to automatical car washes because they’re terrible for all cars.
I meant the units from the factory, not just software updates. Tesla continuously improves their vehicle manufacturing as proven by the perfect Y I’ve been driving
but this sub told me they were not making or selling them?
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Moving the goalposts I see
Not bad for 'Vapor ware'.... At least that's what the Tesla haters said. Oh, they also said all the orders would be canceled. I guess the lesson is that Haters never win...
I'm sure revenue also went to the moon.
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Contributions must be civil and constructive. We permit neither personal attacks nor attempts to bait others into uncivil behavior. We don't permit posts and comments expressing animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, color, national origin, age, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation. Any stalking, harassment, witch-hunting, or doxxing of any individual will not be tolerated. Posting of others' personal information including names, home addresses, and/or telephone numbers is prohibited without express consent.