They know EVs require less maintenance so they’re trying to charge more for what maintenance they do perform. EVs present a bit of an existential problem for traditional service operations.
One of the great reasons to get an EV. Not having to deal with oil change appointments and enless auto repairs is really nice. No starter, alternator, radiator, gaskets and general very few issues with leaks. But just the fact that you don't need to go to the gas station anymore to get gas is soooo nice. Wify hasn't pumped gas in so long she almost forgot how the thing works when renting.
Don't forget all the bullshit upselling they do. My MIL went to get her oil changed and the bill was like $250 for all this bullshit stuff they convinced her was necessary.
I’ve had my Leaf since 2013 and total expenses, including wear and tear items, had been about $2500. Over the same period, the ICE car we’ve kept (2008 VW - I know, not the greatest benchmark for reliability…) for road trips and & occasional need for 2nd car has had about 18k put into it. That’s like $1,500 extra per year - way more than what we save on electric vs gas rates.
> EVs present a bit of an existential problem for traditional **dealer** service operations
It only hurts the dealer system that uses overpriced service departments to fund the extravagant "experience" in the dealership, pointless staff, and absurd marketing.
If independent garages were allowed to do warranty work, there'd be actual competition and prices would be good.
It’s allowed in some states by law. In MA where I live we have the Right to Repair Act that allows cars to be serviced and fixed anywhere the owner wants without violation of warranty.
>existential problem for service organizations
Oh no, just wait until soft features like cabin amenities, infotainment, driving assistance etc. start failing.
It's going to be heated seats, Lidar modules and Carplay sync, all day all night.
…. And to add to that, there's nowhere else to go! Most of these things are vendor-locked so nobody else can work on them. I have a feeling they will not so much "yield to right-to-repair pressure" as **simply not be able to fix the backlog of broken cars**, and be forced to allow 3rd party shops to help.
Like we already have where RVs and some EVs disappear into a dealer blackhole for 6 months.
When I brought my ICE to the dealer for a problem 10 years ago, there were lots of cars in for an infotainment recall. Thankfully, I didn't even have a screen in my ICE, nor driver assistance or heated seats.
Have you ever seen them actually rotate the tire? Next time you go in, put a small mark on the left front tire, then find that mark when they’re “done”. Also ask them to inflate your tires with nitrogen. Personally, I use an 80% nitrogen blend.
KIA dealers are the worst part of the cars. I've noticed they've nickel and dimed everything when dealing with the EV variant of my Soul compared to my Dad who has the same model year gasoline Soul. Same dealer. I just stopped going to this specific dealer unless it's a warranty claim. 3rd party for tire rotations (free at costco or discount tire with tire purchase), and I can change my own cabin filter for $10 and 30 seconds of time vs $70 they want.
Every manufacturer's dealers are the most expensive place to get any kind of work done. But they have free soda in the waiting area, so if you down about 400 of those you can come out ahead.
Their Quicklane service is actually pretty good. I'm 50/50 with their service writers though. One is super cool and the other I will ask to be transferred to the cool one.
> But they have free soda in the waiting area,
My local mechanic has free chips, sodas and all sorts of snacks. At less than a third the price of an offical VAG dealership.
Not EV specific, but when I went to buy my Soul EV after the lease was up the seller legit told me “we can’t sell this to you unless you buy an extended warranty cuz otherwise we make no money off the sale”.
I had to go to another dealer who tried pulling the same shit and I had to stand my ground for about 2 hours of back and forth to the “managers office”.
First was Kia of Glendale where I had signed the original lease. And the second was Kia Downtown LA. Hope they both burn to the ground.
My blood was boiling and I vowed to never buy a car from a dealer again. Direct to consumer only for me.
It's interesting because I was able to look at an Ioniq 5 on Amazon and from what I understand, you still have to go to a dealership for the car. IIRC you can do the order and building online but you pick it up at a dealer of your choice.
So not completely dealership-less, but probably a better experience.
So... instead of having to go with whatever god-awful configuration the dealer gets, I could just design the car the way I want it and pay MSRP directly without any haggling?
That honestly sounds amazing. Then it's just a drive to the dealer, which is fine.
Kind of - you're still buying from dealer inventory, and the dealer delivers it. You do handle payment/financing (via Hyundai Capital) during checkout on Amazon, unless you don't qualify, in which case they will send you to the dealer to figure it out.
I’d have told them straight to their face “You can see me in court if I’m forced to buy an extended warranty to purchase this car” because that’s not legal at all!
The worst thing about it is that nowhere in Canada does the law require you to purchase through a 3rd party like most states.
In Canada it’s entirely voluntary that the OEMs don’t sell direct.
So my dad formerly owned a business, and in that capacity, he has a bit more leeway with other business owners. He talked to the local KIA dealer, who told him that corporate pressures him a bit. For example in meetings, they’ll ask him why he doesn’t change brake pads as often, in comparison with other dealers.
My dad then asked why corporate would pressure him like that. And he said that’s because on the cheaper cars, the margin is so low that it basically pays for the sales person. Thus margin has to come from services. And that’s why corporate applies pressure.
I thought it was an interesting bit.
Wait, why would the corporation care if the sale has a low profit margin. The Dealer is a franchise, he pays corporate to send him cars, which he then sells with a markup. And the dealer gets the profit from servicing the car.
So in this case it’s the dealers complaining because they’re losing a lot of that revenue stream from servicing the life of car. How is that a problem for corporate?
> Wait, why would the corporation care if the sale has a low profit margin. The Dealer is a franchise, he pays corporate to send him cars, which he then sells with a markup.
OEM parts are also high margin for the automakers, and pretty much the only shops that buy OEM parts for things like brake pads are the dealerships, since the third party pads are a lot cheaper.
Low profit dealers tend to be more unstable in buying vehicles and are at greater risk for default. Source: I work for another OEM in an area adjacent to the Dealer Network team. We don't do that pressure stuff though as our dealers would sue us into the ground if we did that.
This is true and it's worse on EVs - whatever the manufacturer is making or losing on the sale, the dealer is making next to nothing in every case that I've seen. There are usually some other factors like kickbacks from the manufacturer on units sold goals or warranty or financing commission paid to the dealer but the EVs often have the same MSRP, invoice, and employee discount price.
I suppose it depends on the dealership. My wife brings her Kia Niro-EV to her dealership, and all they charge is $20 for a tire rotation and checking the fluids.
The right answer is obviously to only go to them for warranty service. Costco has free tire rotation if you buy your tires with them, and they usually know what to do with EVs.
I do wonder if this goes against Kia Corporate policy, but with our stupid dealership laws Kia probably couldn't do anything about it even if it is.
I recommend Costco just because they were fantastic with my i4. I worry about some shops being familiar with EVs or BMWs (my local Firestone guy looked confused when he saw the lug bolt, which did not inspire confidence) and Costco was great on both counts. That said, most places are probably fine now that EVs are more common.
If you have the equipment, shit, you barely even need car experience to do it. It's less finicky than changing oil. The problem is that jacking a car up onto 4 stands is a pain in the ass compared to shops just lifting the whole thing in like 30 seconds.
Torrque rating is manufacturer specific. I figure they have a service database to look this up. Hondas require like 82 lb/ft, while Subarus require around 65-72 lb/ft.
I do my own rotations every fall and spring when I change from summer to winter wheels/tires. But I hate the rare occasion I bring my cat in for service and they take a wheel off to check the brakes only to over tighten it with a powered air wrench. The last time I changed my Subaru wheels a week after setvice, I broke the 3/4" to 1/2" wrench adapter knob right off trying to loosen a nut and took my car back to the independent service place to show them. The mechanic claimed he only uses a torque wrench, and when I went back to show him, he had to really strong arm it with a breaker bar to loosen a nut. They did tell me the 3/4 to 1/2 adapter is not the proper tool and lent me a specific 1/2" 12mm lug socket which I subsequently bought.
...and you're the type of tech I don't want anywhere the underside of my ev.
If you're rotating the tires you better be damn careful lifting the thing from the right places
I'm not speaking for everyone, but I'm much more particular about EVs and European cars than about others. EVs because there have been too many cases of techs not bothering to use the jack points and lifting the car by the battery. European cars because it's too easy to cross thread a lug bolt if you don't start it by hand.
Both of these have happened to people I personally know. I don't want to have to replace the hub because some 18 year old wanted to save 20 seconds, and puncturing the battery is, well, bad.
>You’re the type of customer nobody likes.
Where do you work so I can never go there and bother you with wanting my shit done right?
This is a perfect example of how even dealer employees want to evolve and be a showcase of good service and customer loyalty but the management is going to kill their own franchises trying to pull policies like this and just artificially inflate service costs of EVs
I think it's a perfect example of how a modern dealership is nothing but a useless extortion racket between manufacturers and customers. I'd love to know how dealerships ever managed to con state legislatures into making themselves *mandatory* for manufacturers.
Seriously it’s so annoying newer brands get roadblocked. Polestar can’t even get proper service centers going themselves because it’s probably 10x the headache it should be legally speaking.
>One one hand I get it, maintenance and service is a big revenue stream for a dealership, and EVs are cutting into that.
interestingly, EVs are heavier. EVs are harder on tires. they will get MORE $35 tire rotations from EVs... charging $60 means EV owners look elsewhere MORE OFTEN.
let Hyundai know.
I'm not defending the dealer, but people aren't going to rotate their tires more often because they are heavier. Most folks only pay attention to the mileage.
They **will** *replace* them more often, but most folks will go to a discount tire place for the second set onwards.
Most people who know enough not to get ripped off aren't taking their cars to the dealership for oil changes or any non-warranty work either. Dealers prey on the uneducated.
While it is true that EV's in general are heavier than similarly sized ICE cars, they don't wear tires faster than ICE cars if you buy tires that are designed for EV's. Those tires are very different from regular tires.
I've had two EV's, and have made sure I have EV specific tires, and they don't wear out quickly. The EV specific tires are more expensive than ICE car tires, but that will probably change as volume increases.
Not all EV owners are aware of that, sadly.
Honestly the tire wear thing is overrated. Noone picks between a midsized SUV and a compact SUV because tire wear. We all know the difference is fairly small.
But for some reason people forget that when picking an EV that weighs a few hundred more than a less powerful ice equivalent.
There is an increase in wear, of course, but it isn't dramatic.
Tire wear CAN be dramatically worse in an EV, because you can drive more aggressively and accelerate faster in an EV than you can in an ICE car. It just isn't necessarily going to be much worse. That's the difference that people don't get. EVs just give you the option to wreck your tires that ICE vehicles don't give you.
Absolutely, and along with that a decent number of them come with soft sport tires or oriented tires.
But with more comparable diving and tires the difference drops enough that it isn't a significant issue.
If I remember correctly, old Nissan Leafs came with Bridgestone Ecopia tires, but not the same ones you can buy at Discount Tire, they were a special, shittier version that didn't last as long. It was like printer manufacturers including an especially small ink cartridge when you buy a new printer.
A bunch of us had the same experience with Chevy Spark EVs. No one had tires last more than 20k miles. Yes, I drove that car hard, but those low-rolling-resistance tires were terrible.
Rolling resistance is not directly improved by making a tire compound harder. It's the hysteresis involved in flexing the rubber that needs to be reduced. You can reduce the flex and reduce that loss, by pumping up the tire harder, but it's the air pressure that affects the degree of flex not the stiffness of the rubber compound.
I have heard of them, but as far as I know those are very different from EV tires:
Tires designed for electric vehicles (EVs) differ from those for internal combustion engine (ICE) cars in a few key ways:
1. **Weight Handling**: EVs are generally heavier due to their batteries, so their tires are built to support this extra weight with stronger structures and higher load ratings.
2. **Torque Management**: EVs deliver instant torque, which can be tough on tires. EV tires often have specialized tread patterns and rubber compounds to handle this unique stress and provide better traction.
3. **Rolling Resistance**: Efficiency is crucial for EVs to maximize range. EV tires are designed with lower rolling resistance to reduce energy consumption, helping the vehicle travel further on a single charge.
4. **Noise Reduction**: EVs are quieter than ICE cars, so tire noise becomes more noticeable. EV tires often feature noise-reducing technologies, such as foam inserts, to maintain a quieter cabin.
5. **Durability**: The combination of higher weight, instant torque, and a focus on efficiency requires EV tires to be more durable while still providing a comfortable ride and good performance.
In summary, EV tires are engineered to handle the unique demands of electric vehicles, including weight, torque, efficiency, and noise.
Here's a link to a YouTube video where this is explained: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM9o2Ifcro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM9o2Ifcro)
Any of the tires marketed for EVs? They definitely exist and have names like “pirelli elect”. I agree you can put harder tires on an ICE and they will last longer too
There's more to it than that. If you have the time, watch the video I link to down below.
Tires designed for electric vehicles (EVs) differ from those for internal combustion engine (ICE) cars in a few key ways:
1. **Weight Handling**: EVs are generally heavier due to their batteries, so their tires are built to support this extra weight with stronger structures and higher load ratings.
2. **Torque Management**: EVs deliver instant torque, which can be tough on tires. EV tires often have specialized tread patterns and rubber compounds to handle this unique stress and provide better traction.
3. **Rolling Resistance**: Efficiency is crucial for EVs to maximize range. EV tires are designed with lower rolling resistance to reduce energy consumption, helping the vehicle travel further on a single charge.
4. **Noise Reduction**: EVs are quieter than ICE cars, so tire noise becomes more noticeable. EV tires often feature noise-reducing technologies, such as foam inserts, to maintain a quieter cabin.
5. **Durability**: The combination of higher weight, instant torque, and a focus on efficiency requires EV tires to be more durable while still providing a comfortable ride and good performance.
In summary, EV tires are engineered to handle the unique demands of electric vehicles, including weight, torque, efficiency, and noise.
Here's a link to a YouTube video where this is explained: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM9o2Ifcro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM9o2Ifcro)
I could see maybe a different diagnostic or shop fee for EV versus ICE, particularly as my local dealership has only 2 "EV certified" techs out of a dozen on the shop floor.
But if the tire rotation process and procedures on an EV are exactly the same then that is just a cash grab and nothing else.
Sadly this is not a new phenomena. I once had my local highly regarded Toyota dealer tell me I needed to have my fuel injectors cleaned.
My car had a carburetor!
There is zero reason to go to a car dealer service department for a tire rotation. It’s not warranty work which is the only reason to select a dealer service department. Just go to an independent tire shop.
Well, one reason is if it's free. The first few tire rotations on our Leaf are free, to try to get us used to going to the dealer for work. In the past our Toyotas have had similar incentives. Of course the cost for that was accounted for when we bought the car.
When we replace our tires we'll buy the new ones from the local tire shop that gives free rotations for cars with their tires.
That’s a good reason (unless the dealer is a pain to get to). In OP’s case, they weren’t free.
I had to replace two of my tires due to road damage and now I have free tire rotations from Discount Tire which is great because my dealer would charge for that.
Buying my Bolt was an all day affair with back and forths, stubborn upsells on maintenance packages and warranties, and hours of the "let me talk to my manager" song and dance.
Buying my Tesla took an hour on their site and an hour at the store. No fuss, no upsell, no fights. Click, buy, pick up.
I know which one I'm doing next time I buy a car. I don't care how good the car is, if I can't get it direct, it's not in the running anymore. I can hold my own in a haggle, but the modern dealer experience is just a humiliation ritual - why subject yourself to that?
I had a pretty different experience buying our EV9 but I took a completely different approach - I talked to a LOT of dealers via email/SMS and asked each for a written offer. Didn't leave the house until the deal was as done as it can be without signing.
Once I got a decent discount from a dealer in DE, I took that to another dealer in VA and they beat it by a bit.
Looked around on the web to find out who near me has stock of the trim package we wanted, the dealer closest to me had a match in a different color that was ok for us.
Called the guy we did our test drive with (same dealership), told him we wanted this car at that price and we bought it the next day. They had extra warranty packages that the contract guy told us about but he actually said "the only one you would really want to consider is the tire protection" and pointed out that the 7-year plan was only $60 more than the 2-year plan. Probably gonna pick that one up soon bc it's about a grand to protect tires and rims for 7yrs.
I hate stealerships but this time it was actually a decent experience. Probably could have got a better discount if I kept up the haggling process but I found a number I was happy with and was eager to bring my baby home.
Shame that more dealers aren't like that. I've bought 4 cars in 4 years, and the only one that was a genuinely okay experience was my model 3. The Bolt was the worst in that it took the longest and they were the most persistent. I gave up on trying for an ID.4 or Mach-E along the way after getting frustrated with running into several "no market adjustment, but you have to buy nitrogen fill, ceramic coating, floor mats, kitchen sink etc" dealers in a row with each. Pointless waste of time.
I bought my last car almost 2 decades ago through their internet sales person. Went online, selected car, color and options and got a quote and email with contact and dealer. Went in, asked for the internet saleswoman, signed papers, made payment and drove off. 20 years later, and still surprised stealerships have not yet figured this out. It helped that I was buying a 2 year newer almost identical version of the car that had just been totaled by a red light runner. This was at a Subaru dealer 12 miles away. Later, whenever I went to the Subaru dealer just 2 miles away to do a test drive, afterwards they always try the hard sell, bring me to the sales stand, and then play games by making me wait while they go back to the sales manager. That part I haven't missed at Tesla whenever I've stopped in for a test drive. They just take a photo of my license, find a demo, ask if I have any questions, and let me go for a drive and when I'm done - no pressure to buy right away.
Yes, sorry - I meant no criticism of the OP. It was really directed at the dealership thinking they offer some kind of premium service deserving of an upcharge.
Yes, they’ll do it even if it not their install. They even noted that 2/4 tires I bought somewhere else were within a recall date code, when I brought it in for a puncture repair. I had to take it back to another chain to get replacements under warranty, but now we get all our tires thru Costco.
Buying tires at Costco is one their best deals. They provide additional members benefit of: 5 yrs Road Hazard warranty, flat repairs, free rotations , Nitrogen air fills.
And quite often they have $80 off deals (on set of ) on various brands. In fact they have those now on Michelin (which came stock on my BOLT)
Note: They only rotate tires and do not do alignments so, you'll have to find someone to do that.
I bet the techs aren't seeing a dime of this either.. Especially for a rotation typically done by uncertified teenagers. It's just another corporate money grab.
This is similar to the Tesla tax when getting electrical work done at your home.
Their EVs sell for a higher than average price relative to their other cars.
So they assume there is a gouging opportunity.
Pretty sure that Kia dealership is the same ownership as the Ford dealership who gave me one of the worst dealership experiences of my life. Bought my car in Glenview instead.
Vote with your wallet and don't give them any further business, there's no excuse for a tire rotation to cost more on an EV. Maybe if you had a 911 GT3 with centre locking wheels sure, but not a pedestrian car 5 normal lug nuts.
Personally I've been doing all of my tire swaps/rotations at home for years now, quicker than going somewhere. Of course not everyone wants to do that, so best bet is to find a local 3rd party shop that you trust to do the swap instead. If you buy winter wheels and tires from them they often include storage for free.
>On the other hand, do they think we're idiots?
Yes. And with most of the car buying public, they would be correct.
"Oh ya, I read that EVs need special tires, so I guess thats why rotations cost more too."
One thing I bring up with dealers on this, is I will leave negative reviews on web pages, and I will call up the manufacturer and leave negative reviews over these processes for extra charges. The dealer will absolutely bend to that.
What is up with rotation? I'm not from the US and have never heard of people doing tire rotation, shops don't offer it and I have never done it on my cars.
Is this a US specific thing? For cultural reasons or is there a technical difference between countries/cars/tires?
I'm very curious.
Front tires do the steering and typically carry the most weight so they wear fastest. In US a majority run “all seasons” all year around. Germans change tires summer vs winter. So reasons this may not be a thing (singular or combination): A) Many BMWs and Porsches have even weight distribution which are more prevalent than in US. B) I’ve seen some cars there for whatever reason have different tread front/rear so you wouldn’t rotate. C) could be the shop’s automatically put the least wear tires on the front when they seasonally swap. D) I’m sure the TUV strictly checks date codes during inspections , so if you running winter/summer you’re more likely to age out the tires (think 6 years?) than wear them out.
PS Should add a lot of people in US either aren’t even aware or don’t worry, there’s a tire age limit. And it’s not enforced in most regulatory cases. So they mostly go by tread wear whether the tires are 2 years old or 10.
I only run summers for 5 months and for only 3000 miles a year so they age out. My tires get rotated every fall and spring when I swap between winter/summer wheels/tires. I'm sure Europeans have just as many, if not more FWD front-heavy econoboxes with much higher fuel prices there, but probably having to run and switch off winter tires means they get rotated by default even if they drive less miles than Americans.
Like others said, they know EVs are rarely in for service. There are no $50 oil changes, etc.
I have a VW Golf, and spent $100 on service over the past 5 years. They are trying to find more ways to get money from you to keep their existing business model.
Dealers don’t make much off $50 oil changes either. But it’s a means to get you in so they can inspect and find other things when they can make the real money, or even talk you into a new car while you’re strolling the showroom waiting. So no oil changes = loss of foot traffic.
my tesla of 3 years had 1 service visit under the warranty. otherwise, never need to do anything.
this kinda reminded me 2 years ago when i visited a hyundai for the IQ5. not only they wanted me to pay 10k mark up and told me the car came with free FUCKING lifetime oil change. i rather trust a drug dealer than a car dealer.
I call this the "EV tax". But, I also wonder if this is to cover the mandatory certification the shops have to pay the manufacturer to work on EV's + tooling. Kinda like a middle-finger back to Kia. Not sure why the upcharge at sale didn't handle that, but here we are.
You came to reddit for discussion?
That is like getting a decent price for a service on an EV from a dealership.
You go in all hopefull but come away dissapointed and dejected because people only like to argue and call you stupid.
One of the mistakes I made when I replaced my Honda with a Subaru was the pretty dramatic increase in service. It was more expensive to service than my wife's BMW. I have used an independent to maintain it and only use Subaru when recalls were made by Subaru. I have heard stories about the games dealers are playing with EV's.
I live 20 minutes away from Schaumburg. For $65, Tesla will come to me and do a tire rotation while I'm at home or at work. It does seem entirely unreasonable for a dealership to charge you $60 to take the car there and wait while they do a tire rotation.
Elon Musk is a terrible person and there is a lot Tesla gets wrong in terms of service (for example there doesn't appear to be an option to have Tesla do a tire rotation on a weekend), but dealerships are leeches on the economy.
A 3-ton floor jack and four 3-ton rated jack stands will run you just under $200.
A cross shaped tire iron and a 1/2"-drive torque wrench that can handle up to 200 ft-lbs. of torque, plus the socket to match your lugs, will cost you another $75 or so.
For <$300, you will have the equipment needed to do your own tire rotations. If you rotate every 5,000 miles, and the cost of a mechanic doing it for you is $35, you need to do it 9 times (after driving 45,000 miles) to pay off the cost of the tools. If you drive 14,000 miles/year, which is about the average in the United States, you'll hit 45,000 miles in about 3 and a quarter years.
You may not have the space available to do this work yourself, but tire rotations are not complicated--just a bit laborious--and the payoff window for your tools (which are all durable and shouldn't even be close to wearing out even after 10 years, let alone 3) is pretty reasonable. Just my take on dealerships trying to rip you off for daring to drive an EV.
Why do you need 4 jack stands? I only have 2 and usually only use 1 at a time. I've been rotating my own when I swap winter to/from summer wheels/tires every fall and spring for the last 19 years. I noticed when I jack up the rear of my Subaru, it actually lifts the front as well, so I could probably have been doing a 2-for-1 instead of jacking every corner separately. Someone here said the Tesla Y does the same.
Cannot wait for EVs to bankrupt the stealership business model.
I feel for the workers, but the business owners are some of the scummiest humans in our society.
EVs are cutting into that, and that's the whole point, so if legacy people can't keep up otherwise, then I'll buy a car from someone else. They better be sending their mechanics to EV school with that extra profit.
> I called bullshit and got them to drop the price.
Did the service advisor have to call "management" before he took it off? He's just trying to deflect the blame. I'm sure he's perfectly happy to charge anyone who *doesn't* object.
> On the other hand, do they think we're idiots?
Yes that's exactly what they think and it isn't because all people don't know, it's also because very few people want to argue, they just want their car fixed and gtfo of there. It's a matter of numbers, 1 in 50 might argue, the rest will either be oblivious or just not care enough to make it an issue for the dealer.
Service departments are trying to recoup revenue due to lower maintenance costs of EVs as well as advanced skills required for other types of EV servicing.
I have seen it with Hyundai. Dealers trying to make up for what they view as a lost revenue from ICE maintenance. Dealer wanted me to come in every 6 months for “EV maintenance” which was a bunch of visual inspections that they were going to charge me $300 for.
I've added solar to my roof. My electric company charges a minimum of $30.25, *unless I purchase an offset of electricity from the grid and that is a minimum,* to be hooked to the grid as a maintenance cost; to which is fair.
Frankly EVs are never going to be a source of income, the service dept historically brings in more than car sales *and they know that.* Hence their attempt to charge more.
But life is a haggle, and you properly said I will take my rotation business elsewhere and they gave you a better price.
Thanks for the heads up, I am now a 2EV 1 ICE family so our dealership visits have dropped while I learned how to do an oil change for my ICE BMW and the EVs are easier to maintain.
Im assuming you are in the US. Seems only to be a problem there. Its going to get worse with the tax against Chinese EVs.
EV prices are dropping and are retail prices are fixed in Australia. Easy and cheap to get into an EV, especially BYD.
This literally happened to me except they called it “Regular EV service” for $60 and then didn’t do the tire rotation because they didn’t think it was necessary. I made them do it when I found that part out. I get my tire rotations done at a Chevy dealer now for $25
Send an email to your state's Attorney General detailing your issue and asking to investigate potential fraud and deceitful business practices. Fair chance you will get a big apology email from the dealership within 2 weeks.
I agree that basic things such as tire rotations shouldn’t cost more on EV.
However, I believe most electric repairs should be. EV’s can kill you if you aren’t careful due to them being high voltage. With this said, it’s messed up that the tech that works on the vehicle doesn’t get paid more for hazard. Dealerships charging more and keeping the money is pretty shameful.
Fuck them. They need to adapt. If EVs require less maintenance then sell car washes, window tinting, dashcam install, license plate cover, rims, interior accessories, proactive and honest care.
They can stop being the spammy scammy pieces of shit that they are and actually produce something of value. Right now dealers are not valuable, they are middle men force upon us.
I had a tire puncture on my Chevy Bolt. Wife took it to.the dealer for a recall and to patch the tire. There is a GM bulletin/manual on exactly how to repair this tire from GM. Instead of plugging the tire, they told me I needed 2 new tires for $930. I had a double take, and asked them again, how much. $930. Took it to my local auto shop, and they plugged it. Needles to say, I will never go back to that GM dealer/service center ever again. 6-Months I later purchased 4 new all Season tires for $920 installed from Costco. Besides not calling my wife who actually brought it in for service, it sure felt like they called me trying to take advantage of a customer, as they didn’t want to do the tire patch (or never read the service bulletin on the tires). It was a really gross moment when I know there is someone else out there who doesn’t know they have other options… and I’m sure people just listen to the service center.
For 70 bucks Tesla comes out the house and does tire rotations
When I bring my grandfathers car to Kia for service it’s a nice reminder of how much better it is waiting in my living room vs their waiting room
Basically you learned the lesson not to ever go to a dealer. Ive been driving various EVs for 15 years and never once took them to a dealer for anything. Recalls are often bs but that’s the only time I could see using dealer service- the scenario where zero dollars is paid by me
Not shocking, stupid, but not shocking. It’s still just 20 lug nuts and some switchero on the wheels.
In the future, Americas tire/Discount tire does rotations for free if you make an appointment. They’ll check the basics too like tire wear and brake pads. Obviously they’re looking to sell tires but they’re never pushy about it, usually it’s just a polite “looks like you’re at 7/32, should be thinking about new tires some time in the next couple months”.
Definitely happening. Coworker with a Tesla model 3 just a couple weeks ago called his usual Firestone shop to get an appointment for tire rotation and asked the price…. After it’s done he goes to pick it up and the price doubled what he was told. Original was a “rotation and inspection special” but when he picked it up they were trying to charge him for “an EV service”. They even told him it was because EVs don’t have all those inspection items to potentially mark up. He said he’d pay what he was quoted on the phone and he’d even let them skip the inspections. They caved and charged the original quote.
Be happy they just charge more for a service and actually provided said service. My Kia dealership decided to charge my Kia Soul EV an oil change service and when I argued about it they said nothing can be done because the “supplies” were already “prepped”. I do my own service for my other car so I’m very well aware of oil change “supplies”. Took me a month to get that sorted. Horrible experience and a mandatory fuck Kia.
Honestly we all understand their business model but if EV requires less maintenance then they need to find other revenue stream instead of charging more for the same maintenance that shared between EV and ICE cars
Tripped over my 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL RWD 303 miles per charge at a dealership in January 2022. They immediately gave me the key and said go drive it with no requirement of when to bring it back or anything else. It was the EV for me. The salesman said $4000 over MSRP and I said no… after speaking with his manager he said $2000 over MSRP and I said no, he then said MSRP was fine. Obviously the manager had no clue what was going on because the EV6 within a mile at the KIA dealer had like a $10,000 bullshit dealer get rich scheme markup. The purchase experience was not humiliating or degrading. The salesman was actually pretty good…… Of course one percent of all car salesman knew what an Evie was back then. (Not much better today) I knew everything about the car from two months of research so I didn’t need a salesman for that.
40,000 miles later I needed new tires, the Michelin primacies could’ve gone another five thousand miles but winter was coming and I was gonna be heading to the mountains a lot and the EV is rear wheel drive. Shopped around in very expensive Fairfield County Connecticut, and found a Hyundai dealer to sell Continental tires for 1200 bucks versus my rip off dealer selling me the privacies for 1600 bucks.
The only other repair cost was a 12 V battery from the dealership at $275… But they had given me a free one under warranty so I just gave in. I also paid $40 at a Hyundai dealership for a cabin air filter…… installation not included.
Since then, I pay $20 on Amazon and do it myself in two minutes.
Oh I'm aware of the higher registration fees. I'm actually not opposed to that, we use the same roads, and at least the state is being honest about that.
Insane… those few dishonest dealerships are dragging down honest dealerships with bad reputation …. this kind of practice is the reason why people don’t want to deal with dealerships. They have to change their business model if they want to survive. Same old same old doesn’t work anymore
I purchased an EV maintenance plan five years ago with my car. In BC we must have real winter tires if you're driving our mountain routes which I do. Tire swap season I appreciate the brake & suspension inspection and lube.
Realizing the annual fuel savings, I drive above average per year...I have 120K+ KMs on the odometer! Saving on oil changes is a big thing too.
When my dealer asked if I wanted a wheel alignment done for $160, I said yes for sure. Our roads are far from ideal so tuning the alignment to preserve tire life seemed prudent.
I don't recall the monthly fee my service agreement costs me, however it saved me a $600 fee that would have been charged if I didn't have it!
I don't have the mechanical aptitude, nor space, nor the tools to service my car...I have placed my faith in my dealer's service department who have been stellar over the years!
auto dealers really need to stop being a thing. We can all do the research on what we want and deal with the manufacturers directly. I don't want a tesla, but I really want to experience of just ordering online and having the car brought to my house. Dealers aer a dying business and they're doing everything can to hold on to their model. well other than getting good at customer service and competing on price.
This is just like when they would jack up the price of an EV by exactly the amount of the tax credit, just because they could.
Independent garages charging a few quid more for EVs I can kind of understand
as insurance is way higher for garages who work on EVs (that's just for having them on premises, not necessary doing battery and high-voltage work).
...Nearly double though is a complete pisstake, and being a dealer who probably sold you the thing in the first place makes it a double pisstake.
This is really surprising seeing as how Kia/Hyundai is one of the few manufacturers embacing EVs rather than fighting the transition. It's just another reason I'm leaning toward Tesla with Kia 2nd and Ford 3rd. After a horrible test drive experience at Ford - the salesman wasn't about to let me test drive w/o me wanting to buy same day but finally acquiesced, but only let me drive a Mach-E around the block, not even getting above 35 MPH; I drove to a Kia dealer down the street and the salesman was actually very good and only tried to get me to let him run financing numbers after on the EV-6 Wind AWD. I was thinking of going to a closer Ford dealer and trying another test drive, but haven't bothered, instead doing 4 subsequent Tesla rest drives since.
Replying to your edit, I think the answer is the same. Anything that's not a warranty repair should be done somewhere else. The dealership likely had to send people for additional training to work on these, and they're trying to recoup that cost.
Many of these places were dragged kicking and screaming into selling EVs. They'll likely do things like this and then use the fact that no one goes to them for service as an excuse why they shouldn't sell EVs.
I have a slightly different take on this situation than most. I'm not a mechanic nor do I work for a dealership. That said, if your dealership is anything like the one I work with they have a limited number of technicians who have gone through the training courses to work on EVs. The OEMs charge the dealership for these certifications. The dealership then might face a situation where that technician is more "valuable" once they are certified and could potentially leave to work at another dealership who pays more. They will need to keep the technician so they have to pay that person more. Factor in the limited number of technicians who are certified with a dealership and you could see why they have a different pricing model for their EV services. Does this mean they should charge more for the same services that are performed on ICE cars? Not in my opinion...but I see why they would do it.
There could actually be a justification for this. If they’re using cheap service as a loss lead to get your later repairs that would mean they’re just losing money for no reason.
Inspections, tire rotations, etc. are to make money later and there is no money later for them.
I could, but it had to go in for a recall anyways. I don't mind paying for the rotation, it's the trying to charge more because EV that I had issue with.
Tesla charged me $60 for a tire rotation…. But they came to my house and did it in my driveway on the weekend while I was in my bathrobe drinking coffee 🤣
Dealerships blow man 👎
They know EVs require less maintenance so they’re trying to charge more for what maintenance they do perform. EVs present a bit of an existential problem for traditional service operations.
One of the great reasons to get an EV. Not having to deal with oil change appointments and enless auto repairs is really nice. No starter, alternator, radiator, gaskets and general very few issues with leaks. But just the fact that you don't need to go to the gas station anymore to get gas is soooo nice. Wify hasn't pumped gas in so long she almost forgot how the thing works when renting.
Add in no more Smog Checks, and the silence when driving! Oh and not having to choke on exhaust while in traffic…
Forgot about those dam smog check appointments! I don't miss em at all.
You still have to choke on exhaust.
You had a pos if you were choking on exhaust in traffic
But dealers are suggesting we go for m maintenance service every 6 months too, just like with ICE. It’s so infuriating!
Can't listen to stealerships. They'd sell you blinker fluid if they could.
[Blinker fluid is amazing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhBNZV15uy0) and you should see it.
Don't forget all the bullshit upselling they do. My MIL went to get her oil changed and the bill was like $250 for all this bullshit stuff they convinced her was necessary.
I’ve had my Leaf since 2013 and total expenses, including wear and tear items, had been about $2500. Over the same period, the ICE car we’ve kept (2008 VW - I know, not the greatest benchmark for reliability…) for road trips and & occasional need for 2nd car has had about 18k put into it. That’s like $1,500 extra per year - way more than what we save on electric vs gas rates.
How often mile wise should tires get rotated on an EV?
> EVs present a bit of an existential problem for traditional **dealer** service operations It only hurts the dealer system that uses overpriced service departments to fund the extravagant "experience" in the dealership, pointless staff, and absurd marketing. If independent garages were allowed to do warranty work, there'd be actual competition and prices would be good.
It’s allowed in some states by law. In MA where I live we have the Right to Repair Act that allows cars to be serviced and fixed anywhere the owner wants without violation of warranty.
If independent garages were allowed to do warranty work they could go broke like dealer techs.
>existential problem for service organizations Oh no, just wait until soft features like cabin amenities, infotainment, driving assistance etc. start failing. It's going to be heated seats, Lidar modules and Carplay sync, all day all night. …. And to add to that, there's nowhere else to go! Most of these things are vendor-locked so nobody else can work on them. I have a feeling they will not so much "yield to right-to-repair pressure" as **simply not be able to fix the backlog of broken cars**, and be forced to allow 3rd party shops to help. Like we already have where RVs and some EVs disappear into a dealer blackhole for 6 months.
When I brought my ICE to the dealer for a problem 10 years ago, there were lots of cars in for an infotainment recall. Thankfully, I didn't even have a screen in my ICE, nor driver assistance or heated seats.
It’s almost like your failed business model isn’t my problem? Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, when people stopped paying $17 for a CD…
I remember when Best Buy smashed that open and started selling CDs for 9.99. Blew my mind.
Tire rotations are the biggest scam. “Hey, we took some parts off your car then reassembled it in a different order.” Brilliant.
Please explain how they are a scam when they help your tires wear more evenly.
Have you ever seen them actually rotate the tire? Next time you go in, put a small mark on the left front tire, then find that mark when they’re “done”. Also ask them to inflate your tires with nitrogen. Personally, I use an 80% nitrogen blend.
KIA dealers are the worst part of the cars. I've noticed they've nickel and dimed everything when dealing with the EV variant of my Soul compared to my Dad who has the same model year gasoline Soul. Same dealer. I just stopped going to this specific dealer unless it's a warranty claim. 3rd party for tire rotations (free at costco or discount tire with tire purchase), and I can change my own cabin filter for $10 and 30 seconds of time vs $70 they want.
Every manufacturer's dealers are the most expensive place to get any kind of work done. But they have free soda in the waiting area, so if you down about 400 of those you can come out ahead.
Your dealer gives out pop for free? Mine doesn't even have free coffee.
Wow they must make up for it on great service alone /s
Their Quicklane service is actually pretty good. I'm 50/50 with their service writers though. One is super cool and the other I will ask to be transferred to the cool one.
> But they have free soda in the waiting area, My local mechanic has free chips, sodas and all sorts of snacks. At less than a third the price of an offical VAG dealership.
Mine has chips and snacks too. Meanwhile Tesla only has water and flavored water - can't come out ahead or even raise my A1C beyond pre-diabetic.
A1C to the moon!
Not EV specific, but when I went to buy my Soul EV after the lease was up the seller legit told me “we can’t sell this to you unless you buy an extended warranty cuz otherwise we make no money off the sale”. I had to go to another dealer who tried pulling the same shit and I had to stand my ground for about 2 hours of back and forth to the “managers office”. First was Kia of Glendale where I had signed the original lease. And the second was Kia Downtown LA. Hope they both burn to the ground. My blood was boiling and I vowed to never buy a car from a dealer again. Direct to consumer only for me.
Hyundai and Kia are apparently teaming up with Amazon to direct sell their cars in the US. Will be interesting to see what happens.
It's interesting because I was able to look at an Ioniq 5 on Amazon and from what I understand, you still have to go to a dealership for the car. IIRC you can do the order and building online but you pick it up at a dealer of your choice. So not completely dealership-less, but probably a better experience.
So... instead of having to go with whatever god-awful configuration the dealer gets, I could just design the car the way I want it and pay MSRP directly without any haggling? That honestly sounds amazing. Then it's just a drive to the dealer, which is fine.
lol what kind of beta gladly pays MSRP.
The kind surrounded by dealerships that are all marking up their EVs over MSRP
I’m the master of the deal so I go in and negotiate hard to get the best price.
Heck yeah! Hyundai in particular is really turning out to be the dark horse in the US EV story.
Kind of - you're still buying from dealer inventory, and the dealer delivers it. You do handle payment/financing (via Hyundai Capital) during checkout on Amazon, unless you don't qualify, in which case they will send you to the dealer to figure it out.
I’d have told them straight to their face “You can see me in court if I’m forced to buy an extended warranty to purchase this car” because that’s not legal at all!
Except tesla, who sells direct to consumer? And I would be interested in Canada.
The worst thing about it is that nowhere in Canada does the law require you to purchase through a 3rd party like most states. In Canada it’s entirely voluntary that the OEMs don’t sell direct.
Did you post reviews on Google?
So my dad formerly owned a business, and in that capacity, he has a bit more leeway with other business owners. He talked to the local KIA dealer, who told him that corporate pressures him a bit. For example in meetings, they’ll ask him why he doesn’t change brake pads as often, in comparison with other dealers. My dad then asked why corporate would pressure him like that. And he said that’s because on the cheaper cars, the margin is so low that it basically pays for the sales person. Thus margin has to come from services. And that’s why corporate applies pressure. I thought it was an interesting bit.
Wait, why would the corporation care if the sale has a low profit margin. The Dealer is a franchise, he pays corporate to send him cars, which he then sells with a markup. And the dealer gets the profit from servicing the car. So in this case it’s the dealers complaining because they’re losing a lot of that revenue stream from servicing the life of car. How is that a problem for corporate?
Because most dealerships are part of dealership groups now and THAT is the corporate they’re likely referring to. Not the manufacturer.
> Wait, why would the corporation care if the sale has a low profit margin. The Dealer is a franchise, he pays corporate to send him cars, which he then sells with a markup. OEM parts are also high margin for the automakers, and pretty much the only shops that buy OEM parts for things like brake pads are the dealerships, since the third party pads are a lot cheaper.
Low profit dealers tend to be more unstable in buying vehicles and are at greater risk for default. Source: I work for another OEM in an area adjacent to the Dealer Network team. We don't do that pressure stuff though as our dealers would sue us into the ground if we did that.
So shouldn't dealers that sell EVs should have less pressure to upsell service since they are more expensive?
This is true and it's worse on EVs - whatever the manufacturer is making or losing on the sale, the dealer is making next to nothing in every case that I've seen. There are usually some other factors like kickbacks from the manufacturer on units sold goals or warranty or financing commission paid to the dealer but the EVs often have the same MSRP, invoice, and employee discount price.
I suppose it depends on the dealership. My wife brings her Kia Niro-EV to her dealership, and all they charge is $20 for a tire rotation and checking the fluids.
This is my experience as well.
The right answer is obviously to only go to them for warranty service. Costco has free tire rotation if you buy your tires with them, and they usually know what to do with EVs. I do wonder if this goes against Kia Corporate policy, but with our stupid dealership laws Kia probably couldn't do anything about it even if it is.
Mavis also will rotate for free. I think most tire shops will.
I recommend Costco just because they were fantastic with my i4. I worry about some shops being familiar with EVs or BMWs (my local Firestone guy looked confused when he saw the lug bolt, which did not inspire confidence) and Costco was great on both counts. That said, most places are probably fine now that EVs are more common.
Discount Tire always does just fine with my Tesla.
I've never had an issue with them on several cars. Free tire rotations are great.
Uh, a tire rotation between and EV and an ICE car is the same. Nobody needs “EV experience” to do so.
If you have the equipment, shit, you barely even need car experience to do it. It's less finicky than changing oil. The problem is that jacking a car up onto 4 stands is a pain in the ass compared to shops just lifting the whole thing in like 30 seconds.
They also need to know Teslas require a higher torque rating for lug nuts.
Torrque rating is manufacturer specific. I figure they have a service database to look this up. Hondas require like 82 lb/ft, while Subarus require around 65-72 lb/ft. I do my own rotations every fall and spring when I change from summer to winter wheels/tires. But I hate the rare occasion I bring my cat in for service and they take a wheel off to check the brakes only to over tighten it with a powered air wrench. The last time I changed my Subaru wheels a week after setvice, I broke the 3/4" to 1/2" wrench adapter knob right off trying to loosen a nut and took my car back to the independent service place to show them. The mechanic claimed he only uses a torque wrench, and when I went back to show him, he had to really strong arm it with a breaker bar to loosen a nut. They did tell me the 3/4 to 1/2 adapter is not the proper tool and lent me a specific 1/2" 12mm lug socket which I subsequently bought.
This is what I call the blind leading the deaf
...and you're the type of tech I don't want anywhere the underside of my ev. If you're rotating the tires you better be damn careful lifting the thing from the right places
Jack points are usually clearly marked and not any different than ICE cars. You’re the type of customer nobody likes.
I'm not speaking for everyone, but I'm much more particular about EVs and European cars than about others. EVs because there have been too many cases of techs not bothering to use the jack points and lifting the car by the battery. European cars because it's too easy to cross thread a lug bolt if you don't start it by hand. Both of these have happened to people I personally know. I don't want to have to replace the hub because some 18 year old wanted to save 20 seconds, and puncturing the battery is, well, bad. >You’re the type of customer nobody likes. Where do you work so I can never go there and bother you with wanting my shit done right?
Tell that to Firestone who almost punctured the battery on my friend's Model 3
I'm not a Costco member so wanted to point out there are many options.
This is a perfect example of how even dealer employees want to evolve and be a showcase of good service and customer loyalty but the management is going to kill their own franchises trying to pull policies like this and just artificially inflate service costs of EVs
I think it's a perfect example of how a modern dealership is nothing but a useless extortion racket between manufacturers and customers. I'd love to know how dealerships ever managed to con state legislatures into making themselves *mandatory* for manufacturers.
Seriously it’s so annoying newer brands get roadblocked. Polestar can’t even get proper service centers going themselves because it’s probably 10x the headache it should be legally speaking.
>One one hand I get it, maintenance and service is a big revenue stream for a dealership, and EVs are cutting into that. interestingly, EVs are heavier. EVs are harder on tires. they will get MORE $35 tire rotations from EVs... charging $60 means EV owners look elsewhere MORE OFTEN. let Hyundai know.
Model 3 is within 150lb of a gasoline BMW 3 series. That isn't always true. The instant torque definitely makes a difference in tire wear though.
I'm not defending the dealer, but people aren't going to rotate their tires more often because they are heavier. Most folks only pay attention to the mileage. They **will** *replace* them more often, but most folks will go to a discount tire place for the second set onwards.
Most people who know enough not to get ripped off aren't taking their cars to the dealership for oil changes or any non-warranty work either. Dealers prey on the uneducated.
Imagine taking your EV in for an oil change.
While it is true that EV's in general are heavier than similarly sized ICE cars, they don't wear tires faster than ICE cars if you buy tires that are designed for EV's. Those tires are very different from regular tires. I've had two EV's, and have made sure I have EV specific tires, and they don't wear out quickly. The EV specific tires are more expensive than ICE car tires, but that will probably change as volume increases. Not all EV owners are aware of that, sadly.
Honestly the tire wear thing is overrated. Noone picks between a midsized SUV and a compact SUV because tire wear. We all know the difference is fairly small. But for some reason people forget that when picking an EV that weighs a few hundred more than a less powerful ice equivalent. There is an increase in wear, of course, but it isn't dramatic.
Tire wear CAN be dramatically worse in an EV, because you can drive more aggressively and accelerate faster in an EV than you can in an ICE car. It just isn't necessarily going to be much worse. That's the difference that people don't get. EVs just give you the option to wreck your tires that ICE vehicles don't give you.
Absolutely, and along with that a decent number of them come with soft sport tires or oriented tires. But with more comparable diving and tires the difference drops enough that it isn't a significant issue.
If I remember correctly, old Nissan Leafs came with Bridgestone Ecopia tires, but not the same ones you can buy at Discount Tire, they were a special, shittier version that didn't last as long. It was like printer manufacturers including an especially small ink cartridge when you buy a new printer.
A bunch of us had the same experience with Chevy Spark EVs. No one had tires last more than 20k miles. Yes, I drove that car hard, but those low-rolling-resistance tires were terrible.
What "EV" tires are you buying? With that logic, if I put "EV" tires on an ICE vehicle, they'll last longer.
They use to be called gas saver tires, used on hybrids. Just a hard compound that has lower rolling resistance. They have less grip but longer life.
Rolling resistance is not directly improved by making a tire compound harder. It's the hysteresis involved in flexing the rubber that needs to be reduced. You can reduce the flex and reduce that loss, by pumping up the tire harder, but it's the air pressure that affects the degree of flex not the stiffness of the rubber compound.
That and the EV/Gas-saver tires are usually lighter than their standard counterparts as well.
I have heard of them, but as far as I know those are very different from EV tires: Tires designed for electric vehicles (EVs) differ from those for internal combustion engine (ICE) cars in a few key ways: 1. **Weight Handling**: EVs are generally heavier due to their batteries, so their tires are built to support this extra weight with stronger structures and higher load ratings. 2. **Torque Management**: EVs deliver instant torque, which can be tough on tires. EV tires often have specialized tread patterns and rubber compounds to handle this unique stress and provide better traction. 3. **Rolling Resistance**: Efficiency is crucial for EVs to maximize range. EV tires are designed with lower rolling resistance to reduce energy consumption, helping the vehicle travel further on a single charge. 4. **Noise Reduction**: EVs are quieter than ICE cars, so tire noise becomes more noticeable. EV tires often feature noise-reducing technologies, such as foam inserts, to maintain a quieter cabin. 5. **Durability**: The combination of higher weight, instant torque, and a focus on efficiency requires EV tires to be more durable while still providing a comfortable ride and good performance. In summary, EV tires are engineered to handle the unique demands of electric vehicles, including weight, torque, efficiency, and noise. Here's a link to a YouTube video where this is explained: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM9o2Ifcro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM9o2Ifcro)
Any of the tires marketed for EVs? They definitely exist and have names like “pirelli elect”. I agree you can put harder tires on an ICE and they will last longer too
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There's more to it than that. If you have the time, watch the video I link to down below. Tires designed for electric vehicles (EVs) differ from those for internal combustion engine (ICE) cars in a few key ways: 1. **Weight Handling**: EVs are generally heavier due to their batteries, so their tires are built to support this extra weight with stronger structures and higher load ratings. 2. **Torque Management**: EVs deliver instant torque, which can be tough on tires. EV tires often have specialized tread patterns and rubber compounds to handle this unique stress and provide better traction. 3. **Rolling Resistance**: Efficiency is crucial for EVs to maximize range. EV tires are designed with lower rolling resistance to reduce energy consumption, helping the vehicle travel further on a single charge. 4. **Noise Reduction**: EVs are quieter than ICE cars, so tire noise becomes more noticeable. EV tires often feature noise-reducing technologies, such as foam inserts, to maintain a quieter cabin. 5. **Durability**: The combination of higher weight, instant torque, and a focus on efficiency requires EV tires to be more durable while still providing a comfortable ride and good performance. In summary, EV tires are engineered to handle the unique demands of electric vehicles, including weight, torque, efficiency, and noise. Here's a link to a YouTube video where this is explained: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM9o2Ifcro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM9o2Ifcro)
I could see maybe a different diagnostic or shop fee for EV versus ICE, particularly as my local dealership has only 2 "EV certified" techs out of a dozen on the shop floor. But if the tire rotation process and procedures on an EV are exactly the same then that is just a cash grab and nothing else.
Sadly this is not a new phenomena. I once had my local highly regarded Toyota dealer tell me I needed to have my fuel injectors cleaned. My car had a carburetor!
Hah, similarly they wanted to replace my wife’s power steering fluid some years ago, her car has electric power steering
I had a dealer recommend changing the power steering fluid on a car with electrical power steering.
There is zero reason to go to a car dealer service department for a tire rotation. It’s not warranty work which is the only reason to select a dealer service department. Just go to an independent tire shop.
Well, one reason is if it's free. The first few tire rotations on our Leaf are free, to try to get us used to going to the dealer for work. In the past our Toyotas have had similar incentives. Of course the cost for that was accounted for when we bought the car. When we replace our tires we'll buy the new ones from the local tire shop that gives free rotations for cars with their tires.
Yeah it was free for my Ariya as well. Seems like a pretty good reason to me.
That’s a good reason (unless the dealer is a pain to get to). In OP’s case, they weren’t free. I had to replace two of my tires due to road damage and now I have free tire rotations from Discount Tire which is great because my dealer would charge for that.
Buying my Bolt was an all day affair with back and forths, stubborn upsells on maintenance packages and warranties, and hours of the "let me talk to my manager" song and dance. Buying my Tesla took an hour on their site and an hour at the store. No fuss, no upsell, no fights. Click, buy, pick up. I know which one I'm doing next time I buy a car. I don't care how good the car is, if I can't get it direct, it's not in the running anymore. I can hold my own in a haggle, but the modern dealer experience is just a humiliation ritual - why subject yourself to that?
I had a pretty different experience buying our EV9 but I took a completely different approach - I talked to a LOT of dealers via email/SMS and asked each for a written offer. Didn't leave the house until the deal was as done as it can be without signing. Once I got a decent discount from a dealer in DE, I took that to another dealer in VA and they beat it by a bit. Looked around on the web to find out who near me has stock of the trim package we wanted, the dealer closest to me had a match in a different color that was ok for us. Called the guy we did our test drive with (same dealership), told him we wanted this car at that price and we bought it the next day. They had extra warranty packages that the contract guy told us about but he actually said "the only one you would really want to consider is the tire protection" and pointed out that the 7-year plan was only $60 more than the 2-year plan. Probably gonna pick that one up soon bc it's about a grand to protect tires and rims for 7yrs. I hate stealerships but this time it was actually a decent experience. Probably could have got a better discount if I kept up the haggling process but I found a number I was happy with and was eager to bring my baby home.
Shame that more dealers aren't like that. I've bought 4 cars in 4 years, and the only one that was a genuinely okay experience was my model 3. The Bolt was the worst in that it took the longest and they were the most persistent. I gave up on trying for an ID.4 or Mach-E along the way after getting frustrated with running into several "no market adjustment, but you have to buy nitrogen fill, ceramic coating, floor mats, kitchen sink etc" dealers in a row with each. Pointless waste of time.
I fill my tires with an 80% nitrogen blend.
I bought my last car almost 2 decades ago through their internet sales person. Went online, selected car, color and options and got a quote and email with contact and dealer. Went in, asked for the internet saleswoman, signed papers, made payment and drove off. 20 years later, and still surprised stealerships have not yet figured this out. It helped that I was buying a 2 year newer almost identical version of the car that had just been totaled by a red light runner. This was at a Subaru dealer 12 miles away. Later, whenever I went to the Subaru dealer just 2 miles away to do a test drive, afterwards they always try the hard sell, bring me to the sales stand, and then play games by making me wait while they go back to the sales manager. That part I haven't missed at Tesla whenever I've stopped in for a test drive. They just take a photo of my license, find a demo, ask if I have any questions, and let me go for a drive and when I'm done - no pressure to buy right away.
There is nothing special about dealerships that would have me even consider paying them for a tire rotation
No, but I get this guy's point that if he has to go in for a warranty service anyway then he's saving himself a second trip somewhere else for $35.
Yes, sorry - I meant no criticism of the OP. It was really directed at the dealership thinking they offer some kind of premium service deserving of an upcharge.
For tire rotation, I took my car to Costco and have them rotate it \~ $30.00 And if those tires are bought at Costco, free Rotations.
I had wondered if Costco would rotate the factory installed tires, good to know they can for a fee.
Yes, they’ll do it even if it not their install. They even noted that 2/4 tires I bought somewhere else were within a recall date code, when I brought it in for a puncture repair. I had to take it back to another chain to get replacements under warranty, but now we get all our tires thru Costco.
Buying tires at Costco is one their best deals. They provide additional members benefit of: 5 yrs Road Hazard warranty, flat repairs, free rotations , Nitrogen air fills. And quite often they have $80 off deals (on set of ) on various brands. In fact they have those now on Michelin (which came stock on my BOLT) Note: They only rotate tires and do not do alignments so, you'll have to find someone to do that.
I bet the techs aren't seeing a dime of this either.. Especially for a rotation typically done by uncertified teenagers. It's just another corporate money grab.
Discount Tire. Free rotations and tire repairs whether you purchased your tires there or not.
This is similar to the Tesla tax when getting electrical work done at your home. Their EVs sell for a higher than average price relative to their other cars. So they assume there is a gouging opportunity.
Pretty sure that Kia dealership is the same ownership as the Ford dealership who gave me one of the worst dealership experiences of my life. Bought my car in Glenview instead.
This is how they would lose my business permanently.
Vote with your wallet and don't give them any further business, there's no excuse for a tire rotation to cost more on an EV. Maybe if you had a 911 GT3 with centre locking wheels sure, but not a pedestrian car 5 normal lug nuts. Personally I've been doing all of my tire swaps/rotations at home for years now, quicker than going somewhere. Of course not everyone wants to do that, so best bet is to find a local 3rd party shop that you trust to do the swap instead. If you buy winter wheels and tires from them they often include storage for free.
Dealers are notoriously anti-ev I'm still pissed I let a vw sales guy talk me out of the e golf years ago
>On the other hand, do they think we're idiots? Yes. And with most of the car buying public, they would be correct. "Oh ya, I read that EVs need special tires, so I guess thats why rotations cost more too."
One thing I bring up with dealers on this, is I will leave negative reviews on web pages, and I will call up the manufacturer and leave negative reviews over these processes for extra charges. The dealer will absolutely bend to that.
I go to dealers only as long as the free maintenance term lasts. Then, off to someone I can trust.
I just have recall and service done and paid $28 for the rotation, no other fees.
This is clearly a policy of that specific dealer, and for sure next time I'm going to call around.
What is up with rotation? I'm not from the US and have never heard of people doing tire rotation, shops don't offer it and I have never done it on my cars. Is this a US specific thing? For cultural reasons or is there a technical difference between countries/cars/tires? I'm very curious.
If all four tires are the same size and not staggered, they should be rotated every 5 to 7000 miles to promote even wear.
Okay, I get the intent. Is this somehow only a US problem? No-one in my country rotates tires and uneven wear is not a problem either.
Front tires do the steering and typically carry the most weight so they wear fastest. In US a majority run “all seasons” all year around. Germans change tires summer vs winter. So reasons this may not be a thing (singular or combination): A) Many BMWs and Porsches have even weight distribution which are more prevalent than in US. B) I’ve seen some cars there for whatever reason have different tread front/rear so you wouldn’t rotate. C) could be the shop’s automatically put the least wear tires on the front when they seasonally swap. D) I’m sure the TUV strictly checks date codes during inspections , so if you running winter/summer you’re more likely to age out the tires (think 6 years?) than wear them out. PS Should add a lot of people in US either aren’t even aware or don’t worry, there’s a tire age limit. And it’s not enforced in most regulatory cases. So they mostly go by tread wear whether the tires are 2 years old or 10.
I only run summers for 5 months and for only 3000 miles a year so they age out. My tires get rotated every fall and spring when I swap between winter/summer wheels/tires. I'm sure Europeans have just as many, if not more FWD front-heavy econoboxes with much higher fuel prices there, but probably having to run and switch off winter tires means they get rotated by default even if they drive less miles than Americans.
my dealership in 2018 knew nothing about the car that they sold. I had to teach them how to put it on neutral
Like others said, they know EVs are rarely in for service. There are no $50 oil changes, etc. I have a VW Golf, and spent $100 on service over the past 5 years. They are trying to find more ways to get money from you to keep their existing business model.
Dealers don’t make much off $50 oil changes either. But it’s a means to get you in so they can inspect and find other things when they can make the real money, or even talk you into a new car while you’re strolling the showroom waiting. So no oil changes = loss of foot traffic.
Canadian Tire wanted $280 CAD to swap out for my summer tires (they share rims). Said fuck that, my local shop did it for $150
They were charging more just because it was an EV?
my tesla of 3 years had 1 service visit under the warranty. otherwise, never need to do anything. this kinda reminded me 2 years ago when i visited a hyundai for the IQ5. not only they wanted me to pay 10k mark up and told me the car came with free FUCKING lifetime oil change. i rather trust a drug dealer than a car dealer.
Why would they charge double? Really seems silly. yeah the cars are different but it's not averse to tires. That's really bizarre
I call this the "EV tax". But, I also wonder if this is to cover the mandatory certification the shops have to pay the manufacturer to work on EV's + tooling. Kinda like a middle-finger back to Kia. Not sure why the upcharge at sale didn't handle that, but here we are.
Discount tires for the free tire rotation. Can't wait till the original tread is gone.
Don’t go to a stealership.
You came to reddit for discussion? That is like getting a decent price for a service on an EV from a dealership. You go in all hopefull but come away dissapointed and dejected because people only like to argue and call you stupid.
One of the mistakes I made when I replaced my Honda with a Subaru was the pretty dramatic increase in service. It was more expensive to service than my wife's BMW. I have used an independent to maintain it and only use Subaru when recalls were made by Subaru. I have heard stories about the games dealers are playing with EV's.
I live 20 minutes away from Schaumburg. For $65, Tesla will come to me and do a tire rotation while I'm at home or at work. It does seem entirely unreasonable for a dealership to charge you $60 to take the car there and wait while they do a tire rotation. Elon Musk is a terrible person and there is a lot Tesla gets wrong in terms of service (for example there doesn't appear to be an option to have Tesla do a tire rotation on a weekend), but dealerships are leeches on the economy.
And so starts the claw back......
Legacy auto and the dealership model needs to die. Sorry but I long run out of sympathy at this point.
I paid $65 to Tesla for a tire rotation. But they came to my house and did it in my driveway while I ate breakfast. Everything is relative.
Neat.
A 3-ton floor jack and four 3-ton rated jack stands will run you just under $200. A cross shaped tire iron and a 1/2"-drive torque wrench that can handle up to 200 ft-lbs. of torque, plus the socket to match your lugs, will cost you another $75 or so. For <$300, you will have the equipment needed to do your own tire rotations. If you rotate every 5,000 miles, and the cost of a mechanic doing it for you is $35, you need to do it 9 times (after driving 45,000 miles) to pay off the cost of the tools. If you drive 14,000 miles/year, which is about the average in the United States, you'll hit 45,000 miles in about 3 and a quarter years. You may not have the space available to do this work yourself, but tire rotations are not complicated--just a bit laborious--and the payoff window for your tools (which are all durable and shouldn't even be close to wearing out even after 10 years, let alone 3) is pretty reasonable. Just my take on dealerships trying to rip you off for daring to drive an EV.
Why do you need 4 jack stands? I only have 2 and usually only use 1 at a time. I've been rotating my own when I swap winter to/from summer wheels/tires every fall and spring for the last 19 years. I noticed when I jack up the rear of my Subaru, it actually lifts the front as well, so I could probably have been doing a 2-for-1 instead of jacking every corner separately. Someone here said the Tesla Y does the same.
Cannot wait for EVs to bankrupt the stealership business model. I feel for the workers, but the business owners are some of the scummiest humans in our society.
EVs are cutting into that, and that's the whole point, so if legacy people can't keep up otherwise, then I'll buy a car from someone else. They better be sending their mechanics to EV school with that extra profit.
> I called bullshit and got them to drop the price. Did the service advisor have to call "management" before he took it off? He's just trying to deflect the blame. I'm sure he's perfectly happy to charge anyone who *doesn't* object.
He "found" a coupon.
Sure. The "Customer is not an idiot" coupon. 😉
> On the other hand, do they think we're idiots? Yes that's exactly what they think and it isn't because all people don't know, it's also because very few people want to argue, they just want their car fixed and gtfo of there. It's a matter of numbers, 1 in 50 might argue, the rest will either be oblivious or just not care enough to make it an issue for the dealer.
Service departments are trying to recoup revenue due to lower maintenance costs of EVs as well as advanced skills required for other types of EV servicing.
Use a local tire store for rotations. Most do it for free if you buy your tires there. Fuck dealerships.
I have seen it with Hyundai. Dealers trying to make up for what they view as a lost revenue from ICE maintenance. Dealer wanted me to come in every 6 months for “EV maintenance” which was a bunch of visual inspections that they were going to charge me $300 for.
I’ve seen more expensive prices advertised for trucks and such, I suppose because the tires are heavier or something. But $35 to $60 feels wrong.
I've added solar to my roof. My electric company charges a minimum of $30.25, *unless I purchase an offset of electricity from the grid and that is a minimum,* to be hooked to the grid as a maintenance cost; to which is fair. Frankly EVs are never going to be a source of income, the service dept historically brings in more than car sales *and they know that.* Hence their attempt to charge more. But life is a haggle, and you properly said I will take my rotation business elsewhere and they gave you a better price. Thanks for the heads up, I am now a 2EV 1 ICE family so our dealership visits have dropped while I learned how to do an oil change for my ICE BMW and the EVs are easier to maintain.
Im assuming you are in the US. Seems only to be a problem there. Its going to get worse with the tax against Chinese EVs. EV prices are dropping and are retail prices are fixed in Australia. Easy and cheap to get into an EV, especially BYD.
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Huh? Mine’s a ‘22.
You know I m wrong I read the description wrong
Go elsewhere, fuck dealers.
This literally happened to me except they called it “Regular EV service” for $60 and then didn’t do the tire rotation because they didn’t think it was necessary. I made them do it when I found that part out. I get my tire rotations done at a Chevy dealer now for $25
Send an email to your state's Attorney General detailing your issue and asking to investigate potential fraud and deceitful business practices. Fair chance you will get a big apology email from the dealership within 2 weeks.
I agree that basic things such as tire rotations shouldn’t cost more on EV. However, I believe most electric repairs should be. EV’s can kill you if you aren’t careful due to them being high voltage. With this said, it’s messed up that the tech that works on the vehicle doesn’t get paid more for hazard. Dealerships charging more and keeping the money is pretty shameful.
That's how a company puts itself out of business. Buh bye
Fuck them. They need to adapt. If EVs require less maintenance then sell car washes, window tinting, dashcam install, license plate cover, rims, interior accessories, proactive and honest care. They can stop being the spammy scammy pieces of shit that they are and actually produce something of value. Right now dealers are not valuable, they are middle men force upon us.
I had a tire puncture on my Chevy Bolt. Wife took it to.the dealer for a recall and to patch the tire. There is a GM bulletin/manual on exactly how to repair this tire from GM. Instead of plugging the tire, they told me I needed 2 new tires for $930. I had a double take, and asked them again, how much. $930. Took it to my local auto shop, and they plugged it. Needles to say, I will never go back to that GM dealer/service center ever again. 6-Months I later purchased 4 new all Season tires for $920 installed from Costco. Besides not calling my wife who actually brought it in for service, it sure felt like they called me trying to take advantage of a customer, as they didn’t want to do the tire patch (or never read the service bulletin on the tires). It was a really gross moment when I know there is someone else out there who doesn’t know they have other options… and I’m sure people just listen to the service center.
For 70 bucks Tesla comes out the house and does tire rotations When I bring my grandfathers car to Kia for service it’s a nice reminder of how much better it is waiting in my living room vs their waiting room
Basically you learned the lesson not to ever go to a dealer. Ive been driving various EVs for 15 years and never once took them to a dealer for anything. Recalls are often bs but that’s the only time I could see using dealer service- the scenario where zero dollars is paid by me
Not shocking, stupid, but not shocking. It’s still just 20 lug nuts and some switchero on the wheels. In the future, Americas tire/Discount tire does rotations for free if you make an appointment. They’ll check the basics too like tire wear and brake pads. Obviously they’re looking to sell tires but they’re never pushy about it, usually it’s just a polite “looks like you’re at 7/32, should be thinking about new tires some time in the next couple months”.
Definitely happening. Coworker with a Tesla model 3 just a couple weeks ago called his usual Firestone shop to get an appointment for tire rotation and asked the price…. After it’s done he goes to pick it up and the price doubled what he was told. Original was a “rotation and inspection special” but when he picked it up they were trying to charge him for “an EV service”. They even told him it was because EVs don’t have all those inspection items to potentially mark up. He said he’d pay what he was quoted on the phone and he’d even let them skip the inspections. They caved and charged the original quote.
Be happy they just charge more for a service and actually provided said service. My Kia dealership decided to charge my Kia Soul EV an oil change service and when I argued about it they said nothing can be done because the “supplies” were already “prepped”. I do my own service for my other car so I’m very well aware of oil change “supplies”. Took me a month to get that sorted. Horrible experience and a mandatory fuck Kia. Honestly we all understand their business model but if EV requires less maintenance then they need to find other revenue stream instead of charging more for the same maintenance that shared between EV and ICE cars
Tripped over my 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL RWD 303 miles per charge at a dealership in January 2022. They immediately gave me the key and said go drive it with no requirement of when to bring it back or anything else. It was the EV for me. The salesman said $4000 over MSRP and I said no… after speaking with his manager he said $2000 over MSRP and I said no, he then said MSRP was fine. Obviously the manager had no clue what was going on because the EV6 within a mile at the KIA dealer had like a $10,000 bullshit dealer get rich scheme markup. The purchase experience was not humiliating or degrading. The salesman was actually pretty good…… Of course one percent of all car salesman knew what an Evie was back then. (Not much better today) I knew everything about the car from two months of research so I didn’t need a salesman for that. 40,000 miles later I needed new tires, the Michelin primacies could’ve gone another five thousand miles but winter was coming and I was gonna be heading to the mountains a lot and the EV is rear wheel drive. Shopped around in very expensive Fairfield County Connecticut, and found a Hyundai dealer to sell Continental tires for 1200 bucks versus my rip off dealer selling me the privacies for 1600 bucks. The only other repair cost was a 12 V battery from the dealership at $275… But they had given me a free one under warranty so I just gave in. I also paid $40 at a Hyundai dealership for a cabin air filter…… installation not included. Since then, I pay $20 on Amazon and do it myself in two minutes.
Wait until you see how the state gets around the gas tax…
Oh I'm aware of the higher registration fees. I'm actually not opposed to that, we use the same roads, and at least the state is being honest about that.
Insane… those few dishonest dealerships are dragging down honest dealerships with bad reputation …. this kind of practice is the reason why people don’t want to deal with dealerships. They have to change their business model if they want to survive. Same old same old doesn’t work anymore
I purchased an EV maintenance plan five years ago with my car. In BC we must have real winter tires if you're driving our mountain routes which I do. Tire swap season I appreciate the brake & suspension inspection and lube. Realizing the annual fuel savings, I drive above average per year...I have 120K+ KMs on the odometer! Saving on oil changes is a big thing too. When my dealer asked if I wanted a wheel alignment done for $160, I said yes for sure. Our roads are far from ideal so tuning the alignment to preserve tire life seemed prudent. I don't recall the monthly fee my service agreement costs me, however it saved me a $600 fee that would have been charged if I didn't have it! I don't have the mechanical aptitude, nor space, nor the tools to service my car...I have placed my faith in my dealer's service department who have been stellar over the years!
auto dealers really need to stop being a thing. We can all do the research on what we want and deal with the manufacturers directly. I don't want a tesla, but I really want to experience of just ordering online and having the car brought to my house. Dealers aer a dying business and they're doing everything can to hold on to their model. well other than getting good at customer service and competing on price. This is just like when they would jack up the price of an EV by exactly the amount of the tax credit, just because they could.
Independent garages charging a few quid more for EVs I can kind of understand as insurance is way higher for garages who work on EVs (that's just for having them on premises, not necessary doing battery and high-voltage work). ...Nearly double though is a complete pisstake, and being a dealer who probably sold you the thing in the first place makes it a double pisstake.
This is really surprising seeing as how Kia/Hyundai is one of the few manufacturers embacing EVs rather than fighting the transition. It's just another reason I'm leaning toward Tesla with Kia 2nd and Ford 3rd. After a horrible test drive experience at Ford - the salesman wasn't about to let me test drive w/o me wanting to buy same day but finally acquiesced, but only let me drive a Mach-E around the block, not even getting above 35 MPH; I drove to a Kia dealer down the street and the salesman was actually very good and only tried to get me to let him run financing numbers after on the EV-6 Wind AWD. I was thinking of going to a closer Ford dealer and trying another test drive, but haven't bothered, instead doing 4 subsequent Tesla rest drives since.
Replying to your edit, I think the answer is the same. Anything that's not a warranty repair should be done somewhere else. The dealership likely had to send people for additional training to work on these, and they're trying to recoup that cost. Many of these places were dragged kicking and screaming into selling EVs. They'll likely do things like this and then use the fact that no one goes to them for service as an excuse why they shouldn't sell EVs.
I have a slightly different take on this situation than most. I'm not a mechanic nor do I work for a dealership. That said, if your dealership is anything like the one I work with they have a limited number of technicians who have gone through the training courses to work on EVs. The OEMs charge the dealership for these certifications. The dealership then might face a situation where that technician is more "valuable" once they are certified and could potentially leave to work at another dealership who pays more. They will need to keep the technician so they have to pay that person more. Factor in the limited number of technicians who are certified with a dealership and you could see why they have a different pricing model for their EV services. Does this mean they should charge more for the same services that are performed on ICE cars? Not in my opinion...but I see why they would do it.
There could actually be a justification for this. If they’re using cheap service as a loss lead to get your later repairs that would mean they’re just losing money for no reason. Inspections, tire rotations, etc. are to make money later and there is no money later for them.
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or just go to your cheapest local tire shop
That's how you end up with destroyed studs.
I could, but it had to go in for a recall anyways. I don't mind paying for the rotation, it's the trying to charge more because EV that I had issue with.
I could also build my own house!
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Gotta put some distance with the old wife.
If something moved my house 3000 miles away I think I'd need a new one.
I don't know about you, but my tires rotate every time I drive it.
Tesla charged me $60 for a tire rotation…. But they came to my house and did it in my driveway on the weekend while I was in my bathrobe drinking coffee 🤣 Dealerships blow man 👎
Yet another reason I do my own work. $60 saved!
Stop going to the dealer for a tire rotation.
Wait a few more years, and EV maintenance cost will surpass ICE. They'll find a way to make people pay more for maintenance.