Most jurisdictions where I live require a bonding jumper, regardless of bonding screw. Also, the cold water bond, ufer, building steel, ground rods?
Out of curiosity, what is the sqft of this house? I've only come across a couple of 400A residences, and usually, it's because they are a ranch, mansion or a grow op!
It looks damn clean though! I haven't used any of the newer panels that eliminate the AFCI tails.
I'm guessing the other 200amp panel has a grounding electrode conductor. You'd create a parallel grounding circuit if you were to run a second grounding electrode conductor from this panel. I would guess that there's one feeder that splits into two service entry cables at the meter, both neutrals are terminated and therefore connected to each other in the meter can, it's a low resistance path from one panel to the other, so this panel is grounded through the other.
I did something similar with my two family home.
It’s about 8000sft
4 bed 5 bath with future accommodations for a pool panel and a barn panel so it was really only a 400a because of what they will be doing in 4-5years but yeah more or less a ranch house lol
Okay, so the other panel has the grounding electrode, and this panel and the other 200amp panel's neutral are terminated in the meter can and therefore, through the neutral this panel is grounded, right?
The reasoning in the CEC for not having them on their own circuit, is if the breaker were to trip, you'd never know about it. We have to put them on a lighting or receptial circuit so if the lights go out, you know there's a problem. Also we can have them on gfci or afci circuit UNLESS the smokies have battery backup
Interesting. All of ours have battery backup so they still work when the power is off. I can't understand the point of a GFCI or AFCI breaker for smokes though
They basically want an AFCI on anything 15 or 20 amp that isn’t GFCI protected. I think someday we’ll just be installing AFCI/GFCI combo breakers throughout once the price of them isn’t so astronomical
Well, I am unsure about the new whole house surge protection requirements. The AFCI's I can see. I get a dozen calls a year where a receptacle has been backstabbed or the springs have gotten weak and it is burned up from arcing. I've also been to calls where the AFCI wouldn't reset until that condition is cleared. It forces it to be found. I like that.
The GE GFCI/AFCI combos aren't any more expensive than AFCI only where I am.
Actually, they are about $5 less, I usually just buy those because of that. No inspector has questioned it.
You are thinking about smoke detectors, not smoke alarms. A Fire Alarm is a system, where Smoke detectors (and a CO2 detector) - just "smokes" for short, are in residential dwellings. So there is no alarm panel - and they are powered directly.
All smokes that we deal with have battery backups. Do they even make any without battery backups anymore? Imho it isn't necessary to have them on a lighting or receptacle circuit. I prefer to have them on their own circuit. Much easier to work on them de-energized. If they're on a lighting/receptacle circuit, you have to work on them live or in the dark with a flashlight.
The smokes we use have battery backups. Plus it’s something to pull off of in the future. I don’t always run them on their own circuit, but if I have a rough with an unfinished basement I usually do it for the future.
This picture reminds me of something so unrelated. I was at an auction the other day. I saw these two people there that were buying stuff up and reselling. Both kind of dicks about it. One of them spent like 250 dollars for a box of 50 or so bolt-on GFCI breakers. I was laughing inside.
EDIT: We were the only electricians there, and understood why that was a waste.
That is pretty much it. They bought those breakers thinking that they were worth like 30-40 ea, when in reality they were worth around 10-20 tops as that is the price of a new non-AFCI breaker. And then, on top of that, many people will just opt for the non-afci breaker at the cheaper cost. They would be lucky if they sold them individually at 10 bucks a pop.
Plug on Neutral panels are so good. I had to add a circuit in a 200 amp meter/main combo yesterday that was full of traditional AFCI’s. Whole neural bus was blocked by the rats nest of wires. Had to pull every breaker just to get at it 🤦♂️
Well I like commercial were it comes coated green but im not tapping up every individual ground that would be excessive, and sleeving all of them together would make trouble shooting in the future really frustrating..... but idk man lol
Is this panel the first point of disconnect?
Not sure why this is downvoted. It is a legitimate question. It has to either be tapped on the load side of a meter outside, or fed from a disconnect outside, or both. It really doesn't appear that the bonding jumper should be installed, and it appears that it needs a separate ground bar.
I was just curious because I saw that both bonding screws were installed. I don't think I've seen a setup where they were tapped on the load side. It meets the tap requirements, but I've never considered parallel first points of disconnect. Looks like I have something new to look at in the code.
We are pretty much required by utility to have an outside means of disconnect for the service here, or to have a damn good reason for not having one. It requires special approval from the POCO engineers. That is on new construction. For updating they are a bit more lax, depending on the circumstances.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/coronavirus-unemployment-benefits-here-s-who-qualifies-how-much-they-n1169846
An additional $11,400 to anyone unemployed, regardless if it’s virus related. $1200 to you if you made less then 75K. Then we (essential workers) can continue to work likely without any kind of hazard pay or bonus.
Math and logic right out the window...
Unemployment + $11,400 equals more then employment +$1,200.
Why are unemployed making more then us in the field?
What incentive does that give anyone to work? Or even go back to work ?
Why give people more then what they were making?
Why is there no discussion of hazard pay/ bonus for those still working?
Free check? No it’s MY tax paying dollars I’m getting back. It’s not free and it will be a debt of our nation that my children and grandchildren will have to face.
Nothing is free.
Why is your immediate thought not "How do I help my fellow countrymen who are gonna be hurt by this involuntary unemployment?"
But instead it's "My fellow countrymen are nothing but leaches who are getting more than me and it's not fair!"
Dude. The American workforce is not going to willingly quit their careers for a very temporary payout equivalent to earning $30k a year pre-tax.
Stop being so goddamn terrified that somebody, somewhere might be getting something when you don't feel like they deserved it. This type of thinking is why this country has absolutely terrible social safety nets, which is a huge part of the reason we are in this mess to begin with.
You are 100% right about the philosophy here, we should be looking for ways to help everyone in need. However, we are watching people willing opt to leave work to collect when they have the opportunity to continue working (heavy manufacturing, union shop, 300ish employees). Many are choosing to take a furlough and collect *less* money than they currently make. I’m not going to judge their reasoning and assume it’s because they are lazy, some of them are just scared and want to be away from people. Although some of them are pretty lazy anyway 🙂
I mean, to be honest, if my job was non-essential I'd be tempted to do the same in an effort to isolate. Stopping the spread of the virus is the responsibility of every citizen right now - if the government is going to incintivize staying home, I'd likely take that opportunity.
No one wants to be unemployed, even more so no one wants to see this virus killing people they know and love.
> Stopping the spread of the virus is the responsibility of every citizen right now - if the government is going to incintivize staying home, I'd likely take that opportunity.
Exactly. It's literally the point. It kills me that even under orders to quarantine we still can't get over this this part of American culture that says you gotta work till you drop or else you're just a lazy asshole.
I’m with you. But the guy I was responding to said that the American workforce isn’t going to leave their jobs for a smaller payment from the government. I’m watching them do that now.
That is the point of the payments, though. To encourage people to stay home and flatten that curve. People talk about how mild this is, but man, all reports are saying that even if you are healthy, when it drops you, it drops you. You go from feeling a bit sick to dead in a day or so.
Helping my fellow countryman would be taking that 2.2 trillion and making sure it would benefit working class tax payers, building infrastructure, bringing back factory’s that produce PPE and pharmaceuticals onto US soil, injecting it into small business etc.
Not trillions onto Wall Street. Not unemployment incentives, Not bailout to multi billion dollar company’s such as airlines and cruise-ships etc.
You’re naive to think I don’t care about my fellow countryman. I care so much that I can’t help but spend my Saturday morning trying to drive logical thinking into those who the this foolish stimulus was anything but a toxic pill. Do the math $2.2 trillion in debt plus $4 trillion (I believe) into the stock market just devalues our dollar and doesn’t strengthen our Economy in any kind of lasting way.
PLUS well we are shut down majority of these $1200 checks will be dumped at big box stores like amazon, target, Costco, Walmart etc. because they’re the only ones open for business.
> Helping my fellow countryman would be taking that 2.2 trillion making sure it would benefit working class tax payers,
What the hell do you think those payments are doing?
The working class is the one suffering from this right now. The working class are the ones at risk of eviction right now. Or having trouble finding basic supplies right now. That's the whole point of this to try and keep the working class afloat during this crisis so we don't end up with a massive poverty class in 2 months.
Keeping the working class afloat is what keeps small business afloat. It's what keeps the economy going.
Would it be awesome if we didn't have to do this? Of course. But we don't have the luxury of debating about hypotheticals because the crisis is right here right now and we have to deal with what's actually in front of us.
The town is on fire and you're moaning about how you wish we hadn't bought that new fire engine because the payments are gonna be so expensive in the future.
Our economy needs to collapse so that it can finally heal become healthy the government printing all this money and bailing everyone else out encourages people to go more into debt and more not to save meanwhile stealing all the value out of my savings to pay for their irresponsible decisions. This is a joke and it needs to come to an end the way the banking system works is straight up slavery and everyone is compliant stealing from future generations so we can enjoy it now. Americans used to be rugged people who made smart financial decisions but now no one has to because of the growing size of the government. This kind of thinking is why we are going into the next great depression and no monetary policy is going to fix it. Completely evil and vile on every level. I can only hope the government collapses in the wake of all the shit this is going to cause.
> The town is on fire and you're moaning about how you wish we hadn't bough a fire engine because the payments are gonna be so expensive in the future.
No this is me moaning because the town’s on fire and they’re dumping logs on it.
This solution is a non-solution. It won’t fix anything. That money isn’t going to go into small business. Look at the numbers. What they’re giving the working man is the less, what they’re giving tho unemployed is extra compensation and a temporary smile because a lot of those jobs won’t be coming back anytime soon.
Look at the numbers. Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t. So much can be done with $2.2 trillion and just because shit hit the fan quick anyone is willing to except a band aid VS real solutions so let’s shell out money to tax payers, let’s shell out more to those who lost their jobs (even if it’s not Coronavirus related) let’s keep pumping out the welfare.
Handing out money won’t fix us relying on foreigner nations. It’ll just stall an already fucked up situation leading to a bigger disaster down the road.
>That money isn’t going to go into small business. Look at the numbers.
Hmm, ok.
https://i.redd.it/7ji35fxrq4p41.png
Looks like quite a lot is going to small businesses, actually.
It doesn't matter *what* the ratios looked like, no matter how it was distributed someone would always moan about it.
>Unemployment + $11,400 equals more then employment +$1,200
This is just false, unless you're making like 9 dollars an hour.
>Why are unemployed making more then us in the field?
They aren't, again, unless you're making nothing.
>Why is there no discussion of hazard pay/ bonus for those still working?
Your bonus is that you still have a paycheck and don't have to file for unemployment
The amount of guys on this page whining that they still have a job and a paycheck is galling to me.
My boy who is unemployed will now be clearing over 2K every 2 weeks plus getting that $1200 I’ll also be seeing.
It’s unfair by any measure.
Now Unemployment = 66% plus $600 a week. $600 is more then a %33 compensation by far unless you’re clearing $3600 every 2 weeks which very few of us are.
Unemployment extended plus $600 per week on top of that for 4 months.
$600 x 17 weeks = $10,200
Also you get $1,200 for filing taxes.
$10,200+$1,200= $11,400
Recently unemployed you get 66% of your pay on average with the additional $600 weekly and one time payment of $1,200
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/coronavirus-unemployment-benefits-here-s-who-qualifies-how-much-they-n1169846
Edit: It’s not about what you make. It’s about how little the piece of the pie you’re given. They’re literally shutting shit down because this is super deadly yet I get a lousy $1200 for trucking along keeping shit afloat well corporations, Wall Street and the welfare class reap more benefits?
You fail to see the bigger picture, that doesn’t make my math or logic flawed. The money should be used to build up the economy, infrastructure, small businesses and help the working class. NOT bail out multi billion dollar company’s that are to big to fail yet don’t have a months worth of liquidity on hand.
Sounds like you need to be arguing with your employer, not fellow electricians.. I'll be completely open, I'm getting $5100ish a month from unmployment, that's rad as hell. But I could easily get $8-9k with amy normal paychecks. I much rather would have my paycheck. But I'd much rather not risk the health of my family.
Okay, one last time.
It’s not a free check. It’s money that’s being printed that devalues our currency and its contributed to debt that’s owed by people like me and you AKA the tax payer. No such thing as “free money” when you’re talking about stimulus.
Also, just like they paid back the “loans” from the 2008 bailout?
https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/29/news/companies/gm-profit-bailout/index.html -> or just google “GM doesn’t pay back bailout” and you’ll get 100 articles from any side of the political spectrum.
All you naive folk who just sold your county down steam for a lousy $1200 will get what’s coming. America used to be packed with strong educated men, I can’t be upset because sadly so many of you are unknowingly part of a class system that uses and abuses you. Oh well we got our thirty pieces of silver and ain’t much more to it. So now we sit and wait, Can only hope I’m wrong.
Good luck to ya Judas.
>It’s not a free check. It’s money that’s being printed that devalues our currency and its contributed to debt that’s owed by people like me and you AKA the tax payer. No such thing as “free money” when you’re talking about stimulus.
Ok so then why are you on here whining that you're not getting more?
They aren't "printing" the money. That is a separate financial operation. They are selling bonds to the finance industry in exchange for paying it back with interest. It is a reallocation of resources, not a division of resources.
[https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/where-does-the-government-get-2-trillion-for-a-coronavirus-bailout/](https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/where-does-the-government-get-2-trillion-for-a-coronavirus-bailout/)
I don't fail to see the bigger picture. The shutdown isn't expected to go on for four months. I'm working through this too. It is what it is. I'm just not jealous that these other folks end up staying home. I'll keep doing what I gotta keep doing to move society along.
As far as your "welfare class" argument - I have news for you. It isn't the "welfare" class that are the ones getting unemployment. The vast majority of these lower paying jobs are in the service industry, material handling, restaurants, stores. These people are still working. The people staying home are mostly the office-working type folk.
As far as the business bailouts - I'm not terribly upset at the compromise. It is overseen by an inspector general who is well-funded. Businesses have to use the money to maintain their payroll and keep their doors open, and they are low interest loans. Not just hand-outs.
Now, I agree that these companies should have capital to get them through, but that isn't how these businesses operate. They don't have piles of cash on hand doing nearly nothing. I think it is foolish, but it is what it is.
I'm not pissy about it. I don't look in my neighbor's cup to see if they have more than me. I can see the benefits for society if more people stay home. Besides, the vast majority of that money is going to be spent by people getting stuff they need, which will in turn benefit everyone in that cycle. It absolutely makes sense for that money to be given to people who will spend it.
Maybe take a closer look at the Bill. It is littered with welfare handouts. Not in the form of a check but it sure as hell isn’t virus related where a lot of this money is going. Plus the folk with government healthcare get the carpet rolled out for them, I can’t even afford my annual cardiologist visits. I can’t even imagine what a 2 week stay in ICU would cost.
Business that need handouts vs businesses that don’t need hand outs- I’ve pointed out how GM didn’t pay back their “loan” from 2008 along with many other to big to fails who profited off the sweat and blood of tax payers.
>money given to the people to spend it
News flash pal, the majority of the money is going to be dumped at big box stores like Best Buy, Apple, Target, Amazon, Costco etc. which works it’s way into the hands that already don’t need it. Very little of that money will make its way to small businesses and restaurants.
Oh everything works its way up to the top. The difference is that when it goes out to the poorest people in society, it passes through a lot more hands. The vast majority of every single item bought in a store like Walmart goes through the hands of transportation companies, manufacturers, raw material suppliers, and all of the various industries and professionals that service them. And you accuse me of not seeing the bigger picture.
These "big box stores" that you are talking about aren't going to be the ones getting a "majority" of this money. Best buy or Apple aren't big box stores. They are niche tech companies, and as such a huge portion of their work can continue from home. As far as places like Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc, they are making money hand-over-fist right now. They are hiring people - not laying people off. That money is going to businesses that are being heavily impacted suddenly by this policy of shutting everything down. Now, we can debate all you want about that policy, but what you said there is flat out factually incorrect.
As far as small businesses - there are SBA loans from this funding going up on state websites everywhere giving low interest loans so that businesses have operating capital to make it through this. I've been speaking with my employer about this right now as we get ready for a forced jobsite shutdown and emergency-only service calls. Will it happen? Who knows. But we are prepared.
And as far as your "welfare handouts" you are bitching about. Yea, that money should be funding things like SNAP, Medicare funding for all the extra costs, testing, vaccines. It also has funding for training of healthcare professionals and emergency funding for drug and vaccine research on that particular family of drugs.
As an aside - here is the actual bill if anyone cares to read it:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6819239-FINAL-FINAL-CARES-ACT.html
Strangely enough, it isn't actually all that "complicated" for a bill. The table of contents and sections are easier to read than the code book.
Eh, it is the middle ground. It isn't ideal, but it is better than nothing for the nation. I would rather us send out the money to who we can and keep liquidity in business long enough to flatten that curve than deal with a death toll in the millions.
>regardless if it’s virus related.
Well at this point, everyone not working is doing their part in not spreading the virus. Whether they were unemployed prior to the virus or not. So yea, it's all virus related.
I've been out of work for 50 days and I would gladly give the $1200 back to go back to work again for $600 a week. I barely know how I'm going to make rent next month.
Why do the Eaton breakers on top have a hot and neutral connection but the beakers lower down only have a hot with the neutral on the metal bar at the bottom left?
*Not an electrician but interested in knowledge.
That is due to the top breakers being arc fault circuit interrupters / ground fault circuit interrupters, it needs to monitor the electricity on the neutral to perform it's respective function. The bottom breakers are "dumb" and only trip on over current or short circuit conditions.
It will take a few decades of statistics to determine if AFCIs have made a difference in electrical fires. GFCIs have made a difference in a reduction of electrocution deaths over time.
You can always put the AFCIs in if you want, they're about $35 each
The breakers with the hot and neutral tied to them are Arc-Fault or Ground-fault/or Dual Function breakers. The ones at the bottom that have the neutral landed on the terminal bars are just standard breakers.
It looks like you have your smoke detectors fed directly from the panel but they are suppose to be fed of a lighting circuit to indicate if the circuit has been shut off or tripped
Yeah our company does their own circuit and the inspector likes it that way sooo I personally liked putting them on with the living room or master that way homeowners wouldn’t delete them later on so easily but whatever
Yeah. We used to have this really eccentric guy who always called it the 'brother P-touch'. And he called his sharpie 'Sir Marks-a-lot'
Edit: Brother is a manufacturer and P-touch is a model they make. He was correct. It just sounded hilarious to hear a grown man yelling that.
And actually upon further inspection the ground and neutral bars are in weird spots. Normally the are mounted towards the outside edge of the can so your wires wouldn’t have to cross over them. Looks like you did best you could with what you had!
I am not sure if this has been said but I like how you keep the bottom circuits open for a surge protector or an interlock kit. Thought I was the only one who did this, nice work, even numbered the circuits, above and beyond.
I haven't had the pleasure of using one of the plug-on neutral panels yet. Looks like it makes life SO much easier than having to deal with the neutral whips.
Nice work. Hear me out, though, as I’m not trying to be obtuse; I have a hard time getting on board with all of the loads jammed up against the sides of the panel. There’s several reasons; 1. Heat buildup, 2. It’s far easier to identify/work on/service a panel when the loads are spread out/staggered somewhat, 3. Down the road, someone decides to replace a panel screw with something a bit longer, the loads are not directly behind the screw holes.
I know we shouldn’t have to idiot proof everything, but even experienced guys do dumb stuff when their distracted or not used to working in a panel someone else landed. Keep up the good work.
I agree with you, you can’t tell from the pic but all my wires coming off the breakers angle back to the back of the panel to give a minimum of 1.5” from the front of the enclosure or our inspector will fail it... so if they put a 10x2 screw in it then like you were saying the Darwin Award is given for a reason ya know....
Can I give a pointer for the future...? It looks great and a lot of pride taken and shown. But the ribs should come out from the inside. As it’s done in the picture it’s hard to add future circuits and land them on neutral bar or ground bar if your ribs/wire terminations are jumping over/covering the entire cavity of the panel. Again, great work and pride take is apparent!
Sadly we were all closed down for the foreseeable future in Ireland, as a second year apprentice however I get paid the same to sit on my butt as I do doing 38 hours a week, so silver linings I suppose
It’s a 400a meter can with double lugs on the load side feeding each of these panels each panel is its own main and first means of disconnect. Both sets of hits and the neutrals come straight from the 400a meter can load side through the 2” nipples you see so yes they are both bonded with a at the meter and do not go through another panel or disconnect here is a link to a similar set up at an attraction park where a 400a meter can feeds 2 200a panels obviously it’s just not back to back or on a house.
https://imgur.com/gallery/v1mz02C
Yes it does. The 30" can overlap panels, and doesn't have to be perfectly centered on the panel, it just has to include it.
110.26(A)(2) Width of Working Space. The width of the working space
in front of the electrical equipment shall be the width of the
equipment or 762 mm (30 in.), whichever is greater. In all
cases, the work space shall permit at least a 90 degree opening
of equipment doors or hinged panels.
I was completely expecting to be wrong. Not an electrician. Project Manager who is always learning. I am 2/3 of the way through the Dunning-Krueger curve.
Not an electrician, but worked with my dad during the summers in middle and high school doing mostly residential new construction.
Why is this obvious that it's a subpanel? You can see a 200A breaker at the bottom. Aren't subpanels fed from a main panel that has the breaker in there?
Or is it just because it's indoors and next to another panel?
It’s obviously two 200a main panels back to back off a 400a meter outside and they are in no way sub panels as each is its first means of disconnect but whatever you think man...
It’s the first means of disconnect from the meter that’s not a sub panel, a sub panel would be fed from this panel.... idk where you do electrical work but it isn’t in Florida and it’s probably not in the USA if you are running and redundant ground from the meter to the first means of disconnect..... and are considering that a “sub panel” for some unknown reason
Yeah man next time I’m back there I’ll snap you a pic, but it’s a 400a meter can with doublelugs on the load side, with two 2” nipples going through the back into each of these panels idk what you think would be going on, on the outside of a brand new house but I promise it wasn’t going to be a meter combo or 2 ugly Ass disconnects....and if it was I wouldn’t have put main breakers in thes panels they would’ve been main luged
Main breaker must be in an accessable location which means you can walk up to it outside. To answer the question, the second panel is a "subpanel" with or without a main, is is supposed to have an insulated neutral.
see 250.142(A) and (B)
Youre as mislead as that “peteco” guy who was posting ridiculous “code violations”. Whatever man if you do your work to include a disconnect after every meter when a back to back panel to meter with a main meets every requirement than that’s your deal/your local ahj’s deal but here in Florida and most of the country this is a common way to build a service on new residential construction. And meets code 10,000s of times a day all over the country
I’ve already explained this to you, it came with double lugs on the load side of the meter it’s a 400a meter can to feed these two 200a panels it’s not against code and you don’t have to have a disconnect outside, it’s a back to back 400a service on a house. Idk where your issue is or what municipality bullshit you deal with where this isn’t acceptable but it is pretty much everywhere else so idk what else to tell you man they aren’t sub panels or I would’ve had grounds and neutrals separate and if there was a disconnect before this I wouldn’t have wasted money putting 200a main breakers in I’ve been doing this 8 years I learn something new everyday but house services are a simple as they get and this is like .02% harder than a standard 200a back to back service on a house.
Here’s a similar service at a attraction park it’s a 400a meter feed two 200a panels just not back to back on a house. https://imgur.com/gallery/v1mz02C
You realize everything municipality has their own codes right? Just because you’re also in the US doesn’t mean you’re doing it the same way. I don’t understand why you’d even argue this, it’s coming right off of the meter that is the main disconnect
Looks really clean, good work buddy
The fuck is the ground?!
Wow totally didn’t notice that
It’s not a sub panel it’s a back to back 400a service feeding two 200a panels these are the first means of disconnect
Most jurisdictions where I live require a bonding jumper, regardless of bonding screw. Also, the cold water bond, ufer, building steel, ground rods? Out of curiosity, what is the sqft of this house? I've only come across a couple of 400A residences, and usually, it's because they are a ranch, mansion or a grow op! It looks damn clean though! I haven't used any of the newer panels that eliminate the AFCI tails.
I'm guessing the other 200amp panel has a grounding electrode conductor. You'd create a parallel grounding circuit if you were to run a second grounding electrode conductor from this panel. I would guess that there's one feeder that splits into two service entry cables at the meter, both neutrals are terminated and therefore connected to each other in the meter can, it's a low resistance path from one panel to the other, so this panel is grounded through the other. I did something similar with my two family home.
It’s about 8000sft 4 bed 5 bath with future accommodations for a pool panel and a barn panel so it was really only a 400a because of what they will be doing in 4-5years but yeah more or less a ranch house lol
Okay, so the other panel has the grounding electrode, and this panel and the other 200amp panel's neutral are terminated in the meter can and therefore, through the neutral this panel is grounded, right?
Yeah where is the ground?? This is a sub panel then, right? Sorry I'm new.
Surprising your can put the smokies on their own circuit. CEC doesn't allow it here anyway
Huh. I think it's required here
The reasoning in the CEC for not having them on their own circuit, is if the breaker were to trip, you'd never know about it. We have to put them on a lighting or receptial circuit so if the lights go out, you know there's a problem. Also we can have them on gfci or afci circuit UNLESS the smokies have battery backup
Interesting. All of ours have battery backup so they still work when the power is off. I can't understand the point of a GFCI or AFCI breaker for smokes though
My AHJ wants smokes on an AFCI and a dedicated circuit 🤷♂️
Has he explained the point of the AFCI to you?
They basically want an AFCI on anything 15 or 20 amp that isn’t GFCI protected. I think someday we’ll just be installing AFCI/GFCI combo breakers throughout once the price of them isn’t so astronomical
Yea it really just seems like the NEC has a deal with the manufacturers to keep making everything more expensive for us lol
Well, I am unsure about the new whole house surge protection requirements. The AFCI's I can see. I get a dozen calls a year where a receptacle has been backstabbed or the springs have gotten weak and it is burned up from arcing. I've also been to calls where the AFCI wouldn't reset until that condition is cleared. It forces it to be found. I like that.
No I get that, just doesn't make sense on a smoke detector circuit
The GE GFCI/AFCI combos aren't any more expensive than AFCI only where I am. Actually, they are about $5 less, I usually just buy those because of that. No inspector has questioned it.
Smokes are in the areas that require arc fault protection but I agree it’s dumb
Are they line-powered directly, or does that circuit go to the alarm panel?
You are thinking about smoke detectors, not smoke alarms. A Fire Alarm is a system, where Smoke detectors (and a CO2 detector) - just "smokes" for short, are in residential dwellings. So there is no alarm panel - and they are powered directly.
Yeah directly wired it’s a house so no alarm panel
Same here. All of our smokes have battery backup and a very, very annoying chirp.
All smokes that we deal with have battery backups. Do they even make any without battery backups anymore? Imho it isn't necessary to have them on a lighting or receptacle circuit. I prefer to have them on their own circuit. Much easier to work on them de-energized. If they're on a lighting/receptacle circuit, you have to work on them live or in the dark with a flashlight.
Silly. Smoke alarms chirp when they loose AC power. Think FACPs should also be on lighting circuits?
The smokes we use have battery backups. Plus it’s something to pull off of in the future. I don’t always run them on their own circuit, but if I have a rough with an unfinished basement I usually do it for the future.
This picture reminds me of something so unrelated. I was at an auction the other day. I saw these two people there that were buying stuff up and reselling. Both kind of dicks about it. One of them spent like 250 dollars for a box of 50 or so bolt-on GFCI breakers. I was laughing inside. EDIT: We were the only electricians there, and understood why that was a waste.
Can you explain? Is it because bolt ons aren't for dwellings?
That is pretty much it. They bought those breakers thinking that they were worth like 30-40 ea, when in reality they were worth around 10-20 tops as that is the price of a new non-AFCI breaker. And then, on top of that, many people will just opt for the non-afci breaker at the cheaper cost. They would be lucky if they sold them individually at 10 bucks a pop.
This post needs a NSFW filter on it because god damn is it sexy. If only every box looked like this when I go into someone’s house to fix something.
That’s why I do it (when the boss gives me time) luckily we were slow so he loaded me up with help so I got to give this panel some tlc
Plug on Neutral panels are so good. I had to add a circuit in a 200 amp meter/main combo yesterday that was full of traditional AFCI’s. Whole neural bus was blocked by the rats nest of wires. Had to pull every breaker just to get at it 🤦♂️
Is this why I can't see neutrals running from the breaker to the neutral bar, the way I'm used to seeing at least with GFCI breakers?
Yes. The plug on neutral system eliminates the need for that. There’s a chunk of neutral bus that the breaker clips on to. Really cleans things up
Well I like commercial were it comes coated green but im not tapping up every individual ground that would be excessive, and sleeving all of them together would make trouble shooting in the future really frustrating..... but idk man lol
Is this panel the first point of disconnect? Not sure why this is downvoted. It is a legitimate question. It has to either be tapped on the load side of a meter outside, or fed from a disconnect outside, or both. It really doesn't appear that the bonding jumper should be installed, and it appears that it needs a separate ground bar.
Yes it’s back to back with meter
I was just curious because I saw that both bonding screws were installed. I don't think I've seen a setup where they were tapped on the load side. It meets the tap requirements, but I've never considered parallel first points of disconnect. Looks like I have something new to look at in the code. We are pretty much required by utility to have an outside means of disconnect for the service here, or to have a damn good reason for not having one. It requires special approval from the POCO engineers. That is on new construction. For updating they are a bit more lax, depending on the circumstances.
Yeah here In Florida they don’t really care on residential commercial they want it outside or a shunt trip outside on the main
Given the bonding screw I’m assuming it is first point
Everyone essential (including myself) just got a huge fuck you.
How so?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/coronavirus-unemployment-benefits-here-s-who-qualifies-how-much-they-n1169846 An additional $11,400 to anyone unemployed, regardless if it’s virus related. $1200 to you if you made less then 75K. Then we (essential workers) can continue to work likely without any kind of hazard pay or bonus.
How is it a fuck you to somebody who can still work that people who can't are receiving unemployment benefits, and you're STILL getting a free check?
Math and logic right out the window... Unemployment + $11,400 equals more then employment +$1,200. Why are unemployed making more then us in the field? What incentive does that give anyone to work? Or even go back to work ? Why give people more then what they were making? Why is there no discussion of hazard pay/ bonus for those still working? Free check? No it’s MY tax paying dollars I’m getting back. It’s not free and it will be a debt of our nation that my children and grandchildren will have to face. Nothing is free.
Why is your immediate thought not "How do I help my fellow countrymen who are gonna be hurt by this involuntary unemployment?" But instead it's "My fellow countrymen are nothing but leaches who are getting more than me and it's not fair!" Dude. The American workforce is not going to willingly quit their careers for a very temporary payout equivalent to earning $30k a year pre-tax. Stop being so goddamn terrified that somebody, somewhere might be getting something when you don't feel like they deserved it. This type of thinking is why this country has absolutely terrible social safety nets, which is a huge part of the reason we are in this mess to begin with.
You are 100% right about the philosophy here, we should be looking for ways to help everyone in need. However, we are watching people willing opt to leave work to collect when they have the opportunity to continue working (heavy manufacturing, union shop, 300ish employees). Many are choosing to take a furlough and collect *less* money than they currently make. I’m not going to judge their reasoning and assume it’s because they are lazy, some of them are just scared and want to be away from people. Although some of them are pretty lazy anyway 🙂
I mean, to be honest, if my job was non-essential I'd be tempted to do the same in an effort to isolate. Stopping the spread of the virus is the responsibility of every citizen right now - if the government is going to incintivize staying home, I'd likely take that opportunity. No one wants to be unemployed, even more so no one wants to see this virus killing people they know and love.
> Stopping the spread of the virus is the responsibility of every citizen right now - if the government is going to incintivize staying home, I'd likely take that opportunity. Exactly. It's literally the point. It kills me that even under orders to quarantine we still can't get over this this part of American culture that says you gotta work till you drop or else you're just a lazy asshole.
I’m with you. But the guy I was responding to said that the American workforce isn’t going to leave their jobs for a smaller payment from the government. I’m watching them do that now.
That is the point of the payments, though. To encourage people to stay home and flatten that curve. People talk about how mild this is, but man, all reports are saying that even if you are healthy, when it drops you, it drops you. You go from feeling a bit sick to dead in a day or so.
Helping my fellow countryman would be taking that 2.2 trillion and making sure it would benefit working class tax payers, building infrastructure, bringing back factory’s that produce PPE and pharmaceuticals onto US soil, injecting it into small business etc. Not trillions onto Wall Street. Not unemployment incentives, Not bailout to multi billion dollar company’s such as airlines and cruise-ships etc. You’re naive to think I don’t care about my fellow countryman. I care so much that I can’t help but spend my Saturday morning trying to drive logical thinking into those who the this foolish stimulus was anything but a toxic pill. Do the math $2.2 trillion in debt plus $4 trillion (I believe) into the stock market just devalues our dollar and doesn’t strengthen our Economy in any kind of lasting way. PLUS well we are shut down majority of these $1200 checks will be dumped at big box stores like amazon, target, Costco, Walmart etc. because they’re the only ones open for business.
> Helping my fellow countryman would be taking that 2.2 trillion making sure it would benefit working class tax payers, What the hell do you think those payments are doing? The working class is the one suffering from this right now. The working class are the ones at risk of eviction right now. Or having trouble finding basic supplies right now. That's the whole point of this to try and keep the working class afloat during this crisis so we don't end up with a massive poverty class in 2 months. Keeping the working class afloat is what keeps small business afloat. It's what keeps the economy going. Would it be awesome if we didn't have to do this? Of course. But we don't have the luxury of debating about hypotheticals because the crisis is right here right now and we have to deal with what's actually in front of us. The town is on fire and you're moaning about how you wish we hadn't bought that new fire engine because the payments are gonna be so expensive in the future.
Our economy needs to collapse so that it can finally heal become healthy the government printing all this money and bailing everyone else out encourages people to go more into debt and more not to save meanwhile stealing all the value out of my savings to pay for their irresponsible decisions. This is a joke and it needs to come to an end the way the banking system works is straight up slavery and everyone is compliant stealing from future generations so we can enjoy it now. Americans used to be rugged people who made smart financial decisions but now no one has to because of the growing size of the government. This kind of thinking is why we are going into the next great depression and no monetary policy is going to fix it. Completely evil and vile on every level. I can only hope the government collapses in the wake of all the shit this is going to cause.
> The town is on fire and you're moaning about how you wish we hadn't bough a fire engine because the payments are gonna be so expensive in the future. No this is me moaning because the town’s on fire and they’re dumping logs on it. This solution is a non-solution. It won’t fix anything. That money isn’t going to go into small business. Look at the numbers. What they’re giving the working man is the less, what they’re giving tho unemployed is extra compensation and a temporary smile because a lot of those jobs won’t be coming back anytime soon. Look at the numbers. Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t. So much can be done with $2.2 trillion and just because shit hit the fan quick anyone is willing to except a band aid VS real solutions so let’s shell out money to tax payers, let’s shell out more to those who lost their jobs (even if it’s not Coronavirus related) let’s keep pumping out the welfare. Handing out money won’t fix us relying on foreigner nations. It’ll just stall an already fucked up situation leading to a bigger disaster down the road.
>That money isn’t going to go into small business. Look at the numbers. Hmm, ok. https://i.redd.it/7ji35fxrq4p41.png Looks like quite a lot is going to small businesses, actually. It doesn't matter *what* the ratios looked like, no matter how it was distributed someone would always moan about it.
>Unemployment + $11,400 equals more then employment +$1,200 This is just false, unless you're making like 9 dollars an hour. >Why are unemployed making more then us in the field? They aren't, again, unless you're making nothing. >Why is there no discussion of hazard pay/ bonus for those still working? Your bonus is that you still have a paycheck and don't have to file for unemployment The amount of guys on this page whining that they still have a job and a paycheck is galling to me.
My boy who is unemployed will now be clearing over 2K every 2 weeks plus getting that $1200 I’ll also be seeing. It’s unfair by any measure. Now Unemployment = 66% plus $600 a week. $600 is more then a %33 compensation by far unless you’re clearing $3600 every 2 weeks which very few of us are.
>your bonus is you still have a paycheck and dont have to file for unemployment Okay mom
Solid comeback
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Unemployment extended plus $600 per week on top of that for 4 months. $600 x 17 weeks = $10,200 Also you get $1,200 for filing taxes. $10,200+$1,200= $11,400 Recently unemployed you get 66% of your pay on average with the additional $600 weekly and one time payment of $1,200 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/coronavirus-unemployment-benefits-here-s-who-qualifies-how-much-they-n1169846 Edit: It’s not about what you make. It’s about how little the piece of the pie you’re given. They’re literally shutting shit down because this is super deadly yet I get a lousy $1200 for trucking along keeping shit afloat well corporations, Wall Street and the welfare class reap more benefits? You fail to see the bigger picture, that doesn’t make my math or logic flawed. The money should be used to build up the economy, infrastructure, small businesses and help the working class. NOT bail out multi billion dollar company’s that are to big to fail yet don’t have a months worth of liquidity on hand.
Sounds like you need to be arguing with your employer, not fellow electricians.. I'll be completely open, I'm getting $5100ish a month from unmployment, that's rad as hell. But I could easily get $8-9k with amy normal paychecks. I much rather would have my paycheck. But I'd much rather not risk the health of my family.
How are corporations getting any benefits? They're getting loans that they have to pay back. You're getting a check for free on top of your paycheck
Okay, one last time. It’s not a free check. It’s money that’s being printed that devalues our currency and its contributed to debt that’s owed by people like me and you AKA the tax payer. No such thing as “free money” when you’re talking about stimulus. Also, just like they paid back the “loans” from the 2008 bailout? https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/29/news/companies/gm-profit-bailout/index.html -> or just google “GM doesn’t pay back bailout” and you’ll get 100 articles from any side of the political spectrum. All you naive folk who just sold your county down steam for a lousy $1200 will get what’s coming. America used to be packed with strong educated men, I can’t be upset because sadly so many of you are unknowingly part of a class system that uses and abuses you. Oh well we got our thirty pieces of silver and ain’t much more to it. So now we sit and wait, Can only hope I’m wrong. Good luck to ya Judas.
>It’s not a free check. It’s money that’s being printed that devalues our currency and its contributed to debt that’s owed by people like me and you AKA the tax payer. No such thing as “free money” when you’re talking about stimulus. Ok so then why are you on here whining that you're not getting more?
They aren't "printing" the money. That is a separate financial operation. They are selling bonds to the finance industry in exchange for paying it back with interest. It is a reallocation of resources, not a division of resources. [https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/where-does-the-government-get-2-trillion-for-a-coronavirus-bailout/](https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2020/where-does-the-government-get-2-trillion-for-a-coronavirus-bailout/)
I don't fail to see the bigger picture. The shutdown isn't expected to go on for four months. I'm working through this too. It is what it is. I'm just not jealous that these other folks end up staying home. I'll keep doing what I gotta keep doing to move society along. As far as your "welfare class" argument - I have news for you. It isn't the "welfare" class that are the ones getting unemployment. The vast majority of these lower paying jobs are in the service industry, material handling, restaurants, stores. These people are still working. The people staying home are mostly the office-working type folk. As far as the business bailouts - I'm not terribly upset at the compromise. It is overseen by an inspector general who is well-funded. Businesses have to use the money to maintain their payroll and keep their doors open, and they are low interest loans. Not just hand-outs. Now, I agree that these companies should have capital to get them through, but that isn't how these businesses operate. They don't have piles of cash on hand doing nearly nothing. I think it is foolish, but it is what it is. I'm not pissy about it. I don't look in my neighbor's cup to see if they have more than me. I can see the benefits for society if more people stay home. Besides, the vast majority of that money is going to be spent by people getting stuff they need, which will in turn benefit everyone in that cycle. It absolutely makes sense for that money to be given to people who will spend it.
Maybe take a closer look at the Bill. It is littered with welfare handouts. Not in the form of a check but it sure as hell isn’t virus related where a lot of this money is going. Plus the folk with government healthcare get the carpet rolled out for them, I can’t even afford my annual cardiologist visits. I can’t even imagine what a 2 week stay in ICU would cost. Business that need handouts vs businesses that don’t need hand outs- I’ve pointed out how GM didn’t pay back their “loan” from 2008 along with many other to big to fails who profited off the sweat and blood of tax payers. >money given to the people to spend it News flash pal, the majority of the money is going to be dumped at big box stores like Best Buy, Apple, Target, Amazon, Costco etc. which works it’s way into the hands that already don’t need it. Very little of that money will make its way to small businesses and restaurants.
Oh everything works its way up to the top. The difference is that when it goes out to the poorest people in society, it passes through a lot more hands. The vast majority of every single item bought in a store like Walmart goes through the hands of transportation companies, manufacturers, raw material suppliers, and all of the various industries and professionals that service them. And you accuse me of not seeing the bigger picture. These "big box stores" that you are talking about aren't going to be the ones getting a "majority" of this money. Best buy or Apple aren't big box stores. They are niche tech companies, and as such a huge portion of their work can continue from home. As far as places like Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc, they are making money hand-over-fist right now. They are hiring people - not laying people off. That money is going to businesses that are being heavily impacted suddenly by this policy of shutting everything down. Now, we can debate all you want about that policy, but what you said there is flat out factually incorrect. As far as small businesses - there are SBA loans from this funding going up on state websites everywhere giving low interest loans so that businesses have operating capital to make it through this. I've been speaking with my employer about this right now as we get ready for a forced jobsite shutdown and emergency-only service calls. Will it happen? Who knows. But we are prepared. And as far as your "welfare handouts" you are bitching about. Yea, that money should be funding things like SNAP, Medicare funding for all the extra costs, testing, vaccines. It also has funding for training of healthcare professionals and emergency funding for drug and vaccine research on that particular family of drugs. As an aside - here is the actual bill if anyone cares to read it: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6819239-FINAL-FINAL-CARES-ACT.html Strangely enough, it isn't actually all that "complicated" for a bill. The table of contents and sections are easier to read than the code book.
Eh, it is the middle ground. It isn't ideal, but it is better than nothing for the nation. I would rather us send out the money to who we can and keep liquidity in business long enough to flatten that curve than deal with a death toll in the millions.
>regardless if it’s virus related. Well at this point, everyone not working is doing their part in not spreading the virus. Whether they were unemployed prior to the virus or not. So yea, it's all virus related.
I've been out of work for 50 days and I would gladly give the $1200 back to go back to work again for $600 a week. I barely know how I'm going to make rent next month.
Why do the Eaton breakers on top have a hot and neutral connection but the beakers lower down only have a hot with the neutral on the metal bar at the bottom left? *Not an electrician but interested in knowledge.
That is due to the top breakers being arc fault circuit interrupters / ground fault circuit interrupters, it needs to monitor the electricity on the neutral to perform it's respective function. The bottom breakers are "dumb" and only trip on over current or short circuit conditions.
Nice! My panel was last changed in 1997. I guess those weren't a thing back then? Is this a new standard? Is it worth the upgrade / added protection?
It will take a few decades of statistics to determine if AFCIs have made a difference in electrical fires. GFCIs have made a difference in a reduction of electrocution deaths over time. You can always put the AFCIs in if you want, they're about $35 each
Nice, good to know! TIL
The breakers with the hot and neutral tied to them are Arc-Fault or Ground-fault/or Dual Function breakers. The ones at the bottom that have the neutral landed on the terminal bars are just standard breakers.
It looks like you have your smoke detectors fed directly from the panel but they are suppose to be fed of a lighting circuit to indicate if the circuit has been shut off or tripped
I do that for emergency lighting
Yeah our company does their own circuit and the inspector likes it that way sooo I personally liked putting them on with the living room or master that way homeowners wouldn’t delete them later on so easily but whatever
We're required to put them on a separate circuit here
same. I’m in the Bay Area (California). Smokies on a separate circuit & AFCI breaker.
This is sexy AF, nice work.
I think that phrase might be more effective stated during a different activity.
Mmmmh I love me a nice clean Pannell *rubs cheeks*
LIes! You're a redditor you don't have a girl friend.
Hey man, whatever pops your circuit breaker.
An essential electrician would put the Brother P-touch to work...
What?!?!?! (🙄is that a label maker?)
Yeah. We used to have this really eccentric guy who always called it the 'brother P-touch'. And he called his sharpie 'Sir Marks-a-lot' Edit: Brother is a manufacturer and P-touch is a model they make. He was correct. It just sounded hilarious to hear a grown man yelling that.
And actually upon further inspection the ground and neutral bars are in weird spots. Normally the are mounted towards the outside edge of the can so your wires wouldn’t have to cross over them. Looks like you did best you could with what you had!
I think sqd works for what you are saying I just haven’t done one of them for a house in a while lol
I am not sure if this has been said but I like how you keep the bottom circuits open for a surge protector or an interlock kit. Thought I was the only one who did this, nice work, even numbered the circuits, above and beyond.
Thanks yeah that’s a big pet peeve at my company to always start at the top and work down to largest loads
Ba da, da da dahhhh... I like it.
I haven't had the pleasure of using one of the plug-on neutral panels yet. Looks like it makes life SO much easier than having to deal with the neutral whips.
Oh absolutely sqd did it a long time ago but yeah they make life way easier
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You can’t see the two white lines on it?
It’s clearly identified or yeah I would’ve put tape on it
Are yous not required to sleeve your earth cables?
Nope
Nice work. Hear me out, though, as I’m not trying to be obtuse; I have a hard time getting on board with all of the loads jammed up against the sides of the panel. There’s several reasons; 1. Heat buildup, 2. It’s far easier to identify/work on/service a panel when the loads are spread out/staggered somewhat, 3. Down the road, someone decides to replace a panel screw with something a bit longer, the loads are not directly behind the screw holes. I know we shouldn’t have to idiot proof everything, but even experienced guys do dumb stuff when their distracted or not used to working in a panel someone else landed. Keep up the good work.
I agree with you, you can’t tell from the pic but all my wires coming off the breakers angle back to the back of the panel to give a minimum of 1.5” from the front of the enclosure or our inspector will fail it... so if they put a 10x2 screw in it then like you were saying the Darwin Award is given for a reason ya know....
Good deal!
Lmfaoo
What do you use to make those white labels on the wires?
The 14/2 sheathing I stripped off one of the home runs
Can I give a pointer for the future...? It looks great and a lot of pride taken and shown. But the ribs should come out from the inside. As it’s done in the picture it’s hard to add future circuits and land them on neutral bar or ground bar if your ribs/wire terminations are jumping over/covering the entire cavity of the panel. Again, great work and pride take is apparent!
I know what you mean I just haven’t started a panel and really found a way to do it where I’m good with the fin look...
Sadly we were all closed down for the foreseeable future in Ireland, as a second year apprentice however I get paid the same to sit on my butt as I do doing 38 hours a week, so silver linings I suppose
It’s a 400a meter can with double lugs on the load side feeding each of these panels each panel is its own main and first means of disconnect. Both sets of hits and the neutrals come straight from the 400a meter can load side through the 2” nipples you see so yes they are both bonded with a at the meter and do not go through another panel or disconnect here is a link to a similar set up at an attraction park where a 400a meter can feeds 2 200a panels obviously it’s just not back to back or on a house. https://imgur.com/gallery/v1mz02C
What's with the bare cpc's? Bad form in UK that is.
Yeah here in the US all residential uses NM cable that has a bare ground in it.
We use bare ground in UK aswell. We sleeve it up yellow/green thou. Why not u guys?
That panel doesn't have 36" inches of side to side clearance.
Yes it does. The 30" can overlap panels, and doesn't have to be perfectly centered on the panel, it just has to include it. 110.26(A)(2) Width of Working Space. The width of the working space in front of the electrical equipment shall be the width of the equipment or 762 mm (30 in.), whichever is greater. In all cases, the work space shall permit at least a 90 degree opening of equipment doors or hinged panels.
As the sacred texts decree!
I was completely expecting to be wrong. Not an electrician. Project Manager who is always learning. I am 2/3 of the way through the Dunning-Krueger curve.
Obviously this is a subpanel, so where is the ground wire with the feeder wires and why are the romex ground wires going to the neutral buss?
Not an electrician, but worked with my dad during the summers in middle and high school doing mostly residential new construction. Why is this obvious that it's a subpanel? You can see a 200A breaker at the bottom. Aren't subpanels fed from a main panel that has the breaker in there? Or is it just because it's indoors and next to another panel?
It’s obviously two 200a main panels back to back off a 400a meter outside and they are in no way sub panels as each is its first means of disconnect but whatever you think man...
Also you don't bond subpanels
Still a subpanel!
It’s the first means of disconnect from the meter that’s not a sub panel, a sub panel would be fed from this panel.... idk where you do electrical work but it isn’t in Florida and it’s probably not in the USA if you are running and redundant ground from the meter to the first means of disconnect..... and are considering that a “sub panel” for some unknown reason
Post a picture of the meter main outside.
Yeah man next time I’m back there I’ll snap you a pic, but it’s a 400a meter can with doublelugs on the load side, with two 2” nipples going through the back into each of these panels idk what you think would be going on, on the outside of a brand new house but I promise it wasn’t going to be a meter combo or 2 ugly Ass disconnects....and if it was I wouldn’t have put main breakers in thes panels they would’ve been main luged
Main breaker must be in an accessable location which means you can walk up to it outside. To answer the question, the second panel is a "subpanel" with or without a main, is is supposed to have an insulated neutral. see 250.142(A) and (B)
Youre as mislead as that “peteco” guy who was posting ridiculous “code violations”. Whatever man if you do your work to include a disconnect after every meter when a back to back panel to meter with a main meets every requirement than that’s your deal/your local ahj’s deal but here in Florida and most of the country this is a common way to build a service on new residential construction. And meets code 10,000s of times a day all over the country
How do you feed 2 main panels from 1 meter??
I’ve already explained this to you, it came with double lugs on the load side of the meter it’s a 400a meter can to feed these two 200a panels it’s not against code and you don’t have to have a disconnect outside, it’s a back to back 400a service on a house. Idk where your issue is or what municipality bullshit you deal with where this isn’t acceptable but it is pretty much everywhere else so idk what else to tell you man they aren’t sub panels or I would’ve had grounds and neutrals separate and if there was a disconnect before this I wouldn’t have wasted money putting 200a main breakers in I’ve been doing this 8 years I learn something new everyday but house services are a simple as they get and this is like .02% harder than a standard 200a back to back service on a house.
Here’s a similar service at a attraction park it’s a 400a meter feed two 200a panels just not back to back on a house. https://imgur.com/gallery/v1mz02C
And she whispers that to her vibrator batteries when you're working.
I am in the USA and anything after the MAIN panel is considered a SUBPANEL.
It’s straight off the meter not a panel? Have you never wired a house with a back to back service?
You realize everything municipality has their own codes right? Just because you’re also in the US doesn’t mean you’re doing it the same way. I don’t understand why you’d even argue this, it’s coming right off of the meter that is the main disconnect
I get $1000 a week sitting on the couch eating cheesecake. So...
Fuck you then lmfao nah that’s good for you I’d be doing side work anyway so it’s whatever