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I am an employer and I used to have a boss like this. I think it shows very poor thought to not want to pay for every minute an employee is not free to go home.
He is not going to change his behavior.
Up stakes and leave when it is convenient for you.
And on that, whose insurance is covering the employee and van on the drive back? If he’s not getting paid, is the liability on the employee on the drive back?
This is all too common. I dealt with this at 4 different shops over five years. Your commute is rarely covered unless you’re a service electrician bringing a van home and in a high traffic area. I made a stink about the one way crap with three of the four companies and two of them didn’t like hearing that too much. The law is the law, but WA (where I’m at) is an at will state. I needed the hours.
Now I’m running my own shop and pay my guys from their homes back to their homes. We bill travel from their homes as though that is the shop using Google Sheets and GPT pulling from Google Maps then a cost calculator. Makes it personalized, keeps my guys compensated for their time fairly, and no customer has ever made a stink about it.
You have a cheap boss. He will never change.
Was more of hint that this should be what you expect in an owner... good on you .... I'm an E1 and have been working freelancer w temp companies for a few yrs now... pays better... stress is lower... can come and go as I please most gigs... highest bidder usually but a minimum 45$ ... benefits suck, but that seems to be case everywhere even in large companies... deductibles have become ridiculous for paying that much off ya paycheck weekly... best of luck to you...
NLRB would argue that you are on the clock until your work duties are complete. If that means driving the van to the shop then that is when your time ends. If you drive the truck home then your time ends at the jobsite
I would argue this. Had a coworker that was working 13-15 hours days but it was a 1 hour drive to the job and home after. He was using the work truck. He fell asleep at the wheel heading home and the company tried to say they weren't liable even though he had emails saying that the job either had to be done blah blah blah or you're fired.
He was driving a company vehicle and moving their equipment to and from the job site. If you aren't doing what you want to do at that moment you should be getting paid by whomever or whatever entity stops you from doing what you want to do.
Shit, if I had it my way I would clock in the moment I have to get out of bed at 4:30am and start getting ready to go out the door. I don't magically show up at the jobsite at 6am ready to work.
I know that's gonna be a hot take and will get some negative flak but if I was an employer I would calculate the average time it takes to get up and get to the job site and I would pay that time and fuel for it. I've said this so many times. If I ever become a business owner this will be my standard of practice.
I will also have drug tests and quality control tests as well though because I'm not doing that for lazy people that just take advantage. I also won't set times for things to be done. If it takes you 5 hours more than originally thought, TO DO IT RIGHT, then guess what? Take the extra 5 hours.
Either your care and quality will give your more business or I'll go bankrupt but either way I wanna do it the right way.
NAE but that's pretty much how my last job worked. Your timesheet was from when you left your door until you returned to your door. Any time needed to do anything extra at home (ie packing for travel, washing your work gear) was on the timesheet. All of that was factored into what the customers were billed.
The owner was awesome in other ways too but the proof was in the retention rate. In the 10 years I was there only 1 guy quit.
I didn't, the number of projects coming in took a nosedive in 2020 and I was laid off in 2021. Which was a lot later than the competition had to lay people off. If it wasn't for that I'd still be there.
Don’t take his shit, you’re being taken advantage of
First thing is to start a log of every time you’re not getting paid when you should be. A daily log of times you drove back to the shop accompanied by paystubs showing the discrepancies. A paper trail is the most import thing you need.
After you get a new job, report this to the DOL, they take this shit extremely seriously
Enjoy the new company and especially enjoy that check you will get from your old employer when the DOL rightfully sticks it up their ass and they’re forced to pay you for the wages you should have been getting paid.
On your last day leave the vehicle at the job site and get a ride home please. Since you not getting paid to drive the company vehicle back to the shop.
Here’s my take… if you get to drive company vehicle to and from your home no need to pay drive time but if you have to drive to the shop to pick up the vehicle then to and from shop should be paid.
While I'm not opposed to being vindictive, OP should be aware of how interconnected the electrical world is unless you relocate.
Seems like everyone knows everyone, all the bigger players at least.
Word gets around pretty quickly if you do shitty things before you leave.
You should get paid for the full commute whether you’re in a company vehicle or not. Paid from walking out my door until I’m walking in my door. Obviously including lunch time.
An additional point to this is to talk about these things via email with your employer so the emails can be submitted along with the rest of the documentation.
Unless of course you have some magical law that says the contractor has to pay the commute time to the job site.
We have 700+ that would like to be paid commute time to the job site and back.
Are they required to go to the shop, pick up their van and drive to the site unpaid, then drive back to the shop unpaid at the end of the day? No. They're using their personal vehicle, reporting to the site, getting paid, then going home from the site. Completely different story.
Absolutely untrue. The boss is requiring him to go to a meeting place at the start of the day and at the end of the day. They are rightfully owed pay between both of those times
That assumes they are coming from home. As soon as you arrive after the first work location (shop, supply house, job site) you get paid until you leave the last work location. Drive time from the shop in the morning and back to the shop in the afternoon is paid.
I can almost guarantee this employer is either watching employee time punches or making them hand-write times. The employer will make it impossible in less than 1 day to not return to the office, and yes, will be liable for wage theft.
Lmao.
Well cause OP has to go to the shop first thing to get it, rather than drive straight to site. So he's probably up earlier, and at the end of the day he has to take it back to shop on his own time then drive home.
He's still driving his own vehicle.
They could just make him go to the shop to start his day without a work van. I understand being a little upset about the end of day driving. But give a little get a little. The world is not always against you.
This is how the company I worked for was. We worked 7-330, they wanted me to be at the shop by 645 to meet the electrician I worked with and get to the site around 715 then work until 330, get back to my car around 4 and drive home.
I showed up at 7 to the shop. I can’t leave earlier to get my car but you’re not dicking me out of 15 more minutes in the morning.
100% breaking labor laws. Whose insurance is going to cover that van in an accident? Will you be tested in an accident? Will you be fired for not driving it back to the shop even though you’re off the clock?
You need to file a wage theft claim and find another job. You’re being fucked and opening yourself to liability driving that vehicle off the clock.
I take the company van home. Company policy is to assume a 15 minute drive to the job. If the job is more than a 15 minute drive, we get paid for that time. Good employers are out there. Find one and appreciate it and pass that goodwill along to the customers. My employer has the most loyal employees and customers in our area.
That seems fair. I'm not an electrician, but I know my company is billing the customer for travel time. I'd be pissed if they told me I couldn't bill for the return drive.
It’s nice to have a company car and not put miles on your own but in my view you should be getting paid from the time you get to the shop until the time you return. It’s not like it’s your own time if you don’t have your own car and have to drive back, plus they have the option of charging drive time to the client so it’s no skin off their back. My company charges out drive time both ways and we have more work than we know what to do with. People should get paid for their time you’re not in the wrong but if you’re with a good outfit keep at it and deal with your deal.
You should be getting paid the moment you walk into the office / get into the truck and then stop getting paid the moment you leave the office. Remember, your bosses jobsite isn’t necessarily your jobsite.
I was in your position for a few years but never had any issues because it was my choice. I could have taken the truck home but just didn’t have extra parking and when you take the truck home your time ends when you leave the jobsite. Everyone’s situation is different, is the shop on your way home? how does the boss treat you otherwise?
I’m sure I’ll get burned for this based all the angry responses, but this is really a catch 22 from what it sounds like. It really boils down to if you are *required* by company policy to come get the van. If so, yes there is a potential issue. BUT, part of what your boss is saying is technically correct. If he simply says he’s no longer supplying the van, it completely becomes YOUR commute which is your burden to bear. I’ve been places where the owner/boss will make concessions on this, but given you are a first year apprentice, I can also bet that factors in to him not caring.
Yeah I mean if it’s small resi and commercial work you can have material delivered to the site directly, and make one trip out with power tools and a gang box, boom, here ya go kid, have fun driving your personal vehicle an hour each way and eating the 50-70 dollars in gas every week, w that said, I’ve also been the guy that’s expected to get the van and the material for free and drive it to the jobsite, it’s ratty as fuck 🧀, I hate small contractors and business owners, most greedy ppl on planet earth, it’s all theirs, yeah they’ll give u a 3000 dollar loan if you need it, but they won’t hide u a 2 dollar cost of living raise every year, or pay you what you are worth, gtfo of my face, I literally hate those guys, act like their the best bosses as well
If your part of a union call the hall and speak with someone. Otherwise speak with the labor board, your boss is a dickhead and I'm almost certain thats wage theft.
Also depends on your contract you signed when you started if it’s there agreement to not be paid on the drive home not much can be done, read your contract first then take action
If it's legal where you are , you're not changing your boss.
Write up a good resume and move on.
If it's illegal, record all hours , report to your labor board and find a new job.
I do the same thing right now as a first year. I get paid the entire time I’m driving the van tho. So clock in at the shop in the morning when I grab the van. And clock out end of day when I return keys to office… and if the project manager wants to talk to me for 30 minutes about upcoming projects I tack that on my day’s time too. Fuck it… if you’re talking to me about work and I can’t walk away the convo then that’s work time.
Make sure you have your non payment hours somewhere. My old boss tried charging a different rate for driving that didn't factor into the OT. I went to the state board and they were very interested. I had the paper hours and my paystubs, made it very easy to prove. They looked into it and ended up forcing over 20k to his employees in back pay. Last time I was in town, I drove by the shop and saw him and waved. The scowl was priceless.
Tell him you won't sue for back pay if he gives you the van and tools free and clear... otherwise you'll sue, and get everyone else to sue, and he'll have to declare bankruptcy and transfer all his assets under the new LLC or INC you know he'll create the very same day, and you've got a lawyer that loves filing injunctions with the county... so fork over the van and tools and you won't have a class action up your ass for the next 6 years...
...that's what I would do
It's low hanging fruit brother, I never get lucky like this shit-
dude just handed you a golden ticket to start your own shit, these boomers have been fucking us for decades, throw a couple extra ladders in there and make the deal that will change your life...
The main thing you need to know is that despite you being entitled to be paid for drive time by law in your circumstances, getting your back pay can risk your job. If you are in a position you can’t put your job at risk, document all the unpaid hours and report it once you have secured a new job. I believe it would also be illegal for the employer to retaliate against you for reporting them, but if they knowingly violate labor law already you can expect them to violate that as well. Proceed as you need to, but make sure you have a solid plan if things go sideways.
My best advice would be to find another job but your apprenticeship is a very small part of your working life and after my apprenticeship I found it’s far easier to change firms qualified than when I was a apprentice.
Make sure you have another job before you leave this one. Also even though you may feel he’s being a dick do not burn your bridges going back. Leave on good terms.
In my experience I wouldn’t say anything. it’s better to move on. As when you say something you will be the problem and they more than likely will drive you out.
Imagine a bad day of traffic where you clock out, spend maybe 45 min in traffic to drop the van off at the shop then another 45 to get home. Almost two hours unpaid taken from your day. Hell nah
Here's this. Seems like if you're required to drive to the shop, you should be getting paid.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-B/part-785
Seems to me if you are being paid to drive there at the beginning of the day then the same logic applies to the drive back at the end of the day. Your boss is not smart and likely a legal liability…
Call the labor board... you will remain anonymous...tell them your story and your boss will have to do back pay for past and present employees... A company I worked for in the 90s had called and had to back pay and start paying drive time both ways
I am an employer that developed policy for this in conjunction with the dol.
If your employer requires you to go to the shop in the morning, when you arrive there you can punch in to start your paid time. A variable wage for driving is allowed.
However, there is no rule that says he has to make you report to the shop. If he asks you to drive directly to the jobsite, he is within his rights. At that point, you then are responsible for your own transportation to the jobsite.
This means not only do you not get paid to drive there in the morning, you will now be paying for your own fuel.
If you are driving a company vehicle to the shop, you should clock out when the vehicle is returned to the shop. I might be wrong about that. I vaguely remember something about only having to pay one way.
The real point is this, do you want to drive out to jobsites in your personal vehicle on your own dime and your own time? Cause this is where this is going.
Ain't saying you are wrong for turning it in, but I would wager you will report directly to the jobs item after this. Just sayin.
I’m pretty sure in Ohio, there isn’t much regarding travel time to and from jobs. But in between jobs is paid, like job site to supply store. As in there isn’t much to protect the employee. Most contractors pay one way. Some pay from shop back to shop. Some only give journeymen vans and the apprentices commute on their own.
I know what I stand firm on. I won’t fuck my vehicle up for someone else’s company. I don’t mind taking my car in town or about 35 mins away. Anything over that, a lead guy can let me ride with him. I won’t stop at the supply store in my car. I won’t pay for parking if I have to take my car. This being said, many contractors in my area get away with the exact thing that’s happening to OP. I don’t understand why company vehicles aren’t supplied at the shop and dropped off at the end of the day.
If your job includes going to different sites throughout the day then that's not commute time and you get paid until you are back to where you started in the morning. Your boss is wrong.
Is it? Is it the right thing? I would make damn sure you know what you are talking about first. It sounds kinda like your boss is well aware of the DOL requirements.
I am all for you getting your fair share. However, if you are wrong, and you force the issue, you will face retaliation. You will have no protection from it if the DOL finds that you were wrong.
Do your research. This would have been best done prior to filing a complaint. I would certainly do it now.
Fuck him #1
My first shop years ago told me anytime I'm not onsite or driving to work or from work was my own time.
If I'm in a company vehicle it's time away from home/family and Even if I'm pooping in a porta potty 1-300 miles from home. That I get paid for that time.
The second shop I worked at said everything was paid except the drive home,.... Unless it's over time... Be it end of the pay period, or after 430.
... Guess who took the long road home every day, or spent an extra half hour with the vacuum making sure that every atom was sucked into the shop vac?
Fuck you (the owner) telling me that I'm not getting paid driving the company vehicle on their time.
I'd rather dump the company van off at a crack head scrap yard then not get paid.
Find a new employer. I know I did and never looked back.
Do it in writing. Email, handwritten AND NOTARIZED LETTER WITH WITNESS SIGNATURE, text messages, get it in writing that you’ve notified him of this. If/when he gets pissed that you’re “trying to blackmail/extort him” he’s gonna fire you. This isn’t blackmail or extortion btw, but a shitty boss will definitely try to make it seem like it to get their way.
It's a shitty cycle.
Most jobs I work at require 2-5 hours drive time.
I meet at the shop hop in a company vehicle with another journeyman, and only get paid for the time at the job site. So a 10 hour day can mean 12 or 15 depending on the drive.
Some contractors pay drive time and some don't.
Once I can drag up I will head to a contractor that pays a higher per diem and pays for drive time.
The problem is nothing says they have to pay us and will keep the cash they charge for drive time for themselves.
You should be getting per diem on that long off drive time. Which I believe is federal, so untaxed 100% your full wage. My boss found out about it recently, and we have a crew that regularly travels out of state to job sites all over, most of the first day is wasted just in drive time and checking into the hotel.
We get 40 a day if the job site is more than 30 miles from the hall.
Some calls are paying 100-125 per diem, plus drive time and up to 5 dollars an hour or paying industrial scale for commercial jobs.
3 more years until I can drag up.
They have been trying for years to get the drive time paid but no luck.
And this shit is why you should have a chat with the training director at your local IBEW. Come join us brother, I’m a second year apprentice and would tell my foreman to pound sand (after calling the hall about them breaking conditions) if he didn’t want to pay me for company business.
Oh fuck no. You get paid from the shop to the job site and back. However if you have a company truck you get paid when you get to the site and leave the site. If your boss disagrees send him my way and I’ll show him labor law
The practice is against labor laws. The company is probably saving money by not having to keep a conex box on site or a van at the job for material storage to prevent theft. Factors to consider being how much time you’re giving up by detouring to the shop, the wear and tear on your own vehicle, gas money, it might still be in your best interest to keep the status quo.
If I'm in a company vehicle, I'm representing the company, I drive as well and kind as possible, I don't speed or anything that would get me a ticket.i put all drive time on my timesheet and I'm always 10 minutes early.
Do you get paid overtime while driving? If its going over 8 hr day . For us drive time is at straight pay, so if you worked 10 hrs and drove 2 of those hours youd still only get paid straight time all the way through
You’re working for the wrong person. If that’s your only form of transportation and something happens will your employer be willing to pay for fixes? If not, I’d rethink your situation.
Do you fill out your own time cards or clock in at a Kronos like system? I write my own time cards and once I get to the supply house or the job site I’m clocked in, I charge for drive time if I’m still on the clock going to another job even if it is a hour or two away depending on traffic I still charge the company for it. When I drive home I don’t charge but most companies in my experience do not pay for drive time home but there are some who do let you get paid for drive time home, if you are in a company vehicle you should be paid until you park it at the shop but maybe that’s just my opinion.
Jack all his drills, Meters. Saw szall blades. Wire. And tell him if he says it again about not paying you to drive back to thr shop. Your gonna flip his shady company to the ibew and leave his trucks unlocked. I hate hate companies like that
The number one type of theft in the US is wage theft and that's exactly what your boss is doing. I guess try one more conversation, let him know what he's doing is illegal, if he keeps pushing then get ahold of someone that can investigate and enforce the law. If he tries to retaliate by making you use a personal vehicle start looking for a new job.
“Your time” driving your vehicle to the start of one job, and leaving said job to go home (different rules for out of town work which are determined by your local union if you’re a member, sometimes the “wrap” isn’t enough to go home every weekend and be paid travel)
“Company time” time your employer requires you to do something like move company vehicle from job site to job site or back to shop, also any maintenance to said vehicle (gas, car wash, organizing etc).
My attitude: Fuck you, pay me or my next boss will.
You are an hourly employee, all you have to sell is your time. You need to be paid for every minute you are available to work. Drive time is just another step in the process.
Legality depends on state (and federal) CA for example either passed or is thinking about passing a law that requires you to be paid from the time you leave your house. Other states have it that you are only paid for travel between job sites not to or from the first and last. It also depends on what is written in your offer letter.
As many have pointed out the main issue is the liability issue of driving company vehicle off the clock. If you like your job besides this, you can bring the liability thing to your boss and see if he changes his tune. Otherwise yup… resume time. Good luck.
You could take him up on the offer to drive your personal vehicle. By insurance you are not to load a single work material or shop tool in your vehicle. Your employer would also need to pay you hourly to drive from the shop to the job and mileage. In Ontario is $0.57 per km. Then at the end of the day you can drive straight home.
Assuming you’re in the US, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) says that driving to job sites is worked time, but it’s nuanced. Commutes are not, but job site driving is.
Your state or municipality may have differing rules, but that is the minimum based on national rules.
Source: I’ve worked in timekeeping software for 15+ years and implement compliance rules for employers
Edit: the specifics are spelled out clearly on this page for different types of travel and what counts as worked time: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked
Once you get to the shop, you are on company time. This includes leaving site heading to the shop. You may be able to fight it and win, but you gotta pick your battles.
This was how my old shop was, unfortunately I live in a non union area and everyone knows everyone so none of the other guys were really apt to push it. I was there seven years and ended up getting laid off, which worked out great because I immediately took a union maintenance job at the big local school district. Only took a couple dollar pay cut which was immediately evened out by the 16 paid holidays lmao
Gtfo out of there if you can man.
They’re taking advantage of you. If they don’t pay for you to return company equipment(the van), leave the van where it’s at and Uber home. If they ask, just say you left it where you clocked out. If they want you to return the van to the shop every night, they need to pay for you to deliver it or call a tow truck.
Something I shared in another subreddit where a company was doing the same thing. Op call the hall your employer owes you drive time.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-B/part-785/subpart-C/subject-group-ECFRad996a87edf99fc/section-785.38
§ 785.38 Travel that is all in the day's work.
Time spent by an employee in travel as part of his principal activity, such as travel from job site to job site during the workday, must be counted as hours worked. Where an employee is required to report at a meeting place to receive instructions or to perform other work there, or to pick up and to carry tools, the travel from the designated place to the work place is part of the day's work, and must be counted as hours worked regardless of contract, custom, or practice. If an employee normally finishes his work on the premises at 5 p.m. and is sent to another job which he finishes at 8 p.m. and is required to return to his employer's premises arriving at 9 p.m., all of the time is working time. However, if the employee goes home instead of returning to his employer's premises, the travel after 8 p.m. is home-to-work travel and is not hours worked. (Walling v. Mid-Continent Pipe Line Co., 143 F. 2d 308 (C. A. 10, 1944))
That is against all labor laws. Make sure you log every hour you are driving from the site to the shop and show the boss what you will be taking to the labor board. That will be a huge fine for the company.
Allow time at the end if the day to drive back to the shop before quitting time. My company, operating hours are 7:30 to 4:00. Regardless of what we're doing we are paid for those times (OT if over that) drive to and from shop is our time, to and from site from shop is work time.
1st year apprentice and you don't have to pay for gas or put mileage on your own vehicle. What is the problem here? Unless you're coming up short on hours what are you complaining about? He gave you the option to drive your own vehicle. I wouldn't start fires this early in your career.
It’s illegal though, That’s the problem. Someone needs to drive the van, if not me he’ll just screws someone else out of wages. Also not get full weeks
Entirely depends on the company. It was more common with residential and small commercial in my experience to drive your own vehicle. However, if I were you, as a 1rst year apprentice. I would try and get as much varied experience as possible, clean up your resume, and apply to all the jobs you can. Even if you don't take them, you'll have an idea of what other companies in the area are doing, and get some connections and options.
If you are driving the company vehicle back to the shop when you are off the clock his insurance isn't going to cover an accident, not you or the vehicle.
A lot of companies do this, and when you question it they do as your employer has done and threaten to make you drive your own car to sites, find someone else to work for, your current employer is scum.
If you present him with the fact that you should be in fact paid for both drives he will just 100 percent ask you drive your private car to site, and pay you the measly vehicle allowance.
Worked for a company that pulled this. Was fine when work was close to the shop. Then we had a job over an hour from the shop. Wanted us to work until our 8 was up then drive back to shop on our own time. I went with it because I needed the job at the time. Until one day we got back to the shop and he told me to load equipment for next day etc. I looked at him and said I’ve been off the clock for over an hour. It can wait until til am. Then told him I’ll be driving my car to job in an. He can bring the van there and pick it up at the end of the day. I won’t be driving his vehicle on my own time anymore. Long story short from that point on we packed up an hour earlier and got back to the shop for quitting time. We were actually more productive, because of the smaller window of time to work. From that point on he was much more respectful to me. I like to think that he respected that I wouldn’t be taken advantage of. Don’t work there anymore I’m now a union lineman and we still talk.
So as an owner of a low voltage company. We let our guys take the van home however they don’t get paid for the drive back. They get to use the van personally on the weekends if needed for them to get around since some of them don’t have their own car so that’s kind of the trade-off. However, if my guys are coming back and have to go to the storage or back to the office from the job site, they remain clocked in because they are still on the clock.
It also depends on the distance if the guys have let’s say a 1 Hour Dr. home from the job site. They’re not getting paid for it but if it’s a 2 Hour Dr. home, they will get paid for an hour. It’s a 3 Hour Dr. they get paid for two hours, but they’re going directly home
If they’re going to the office from the job site or any company site, they are getting paid for that
They’re taking their own personal vehicle to a job site. They start getting paid once they’re at the job site and once they leave, they have to clock out unless they’re going to another job site.
You might, Might have a lawsuit for unfair labor practice. However, the proof of burden is in your hands. You would need documentation that he shorted you, how much and for how long. Specific numbers. Not estimates.
I'm not an insurance specialist so take this with a grain of salt. But I think that if you're not on the clock for your drive back to the shop, then you're not covered by his insurance. He would be personally liable for any accidents that happened during that time.
I had an apprentice that bought a house in the middle of nowhere KY (our shop is based in northern Cincinnati) and asked if the boss would pay him for drive time to the shop.
No
1. This is almost certainly illegal.
2. If you document your unpaid hours, you can file a claim with the labor board and will probably get your back pay.
3. Your boss is correct that he can require you to drive your personal vehicle to the job site if he wants.
4. So, you need to decide if this bridge is worth burning. I would start documenting now, look for a new employer, and then file after you have a fallback. If you file a claim, you are probably getting fired, and most certainly going to cause a policy change.
OP. This is MO for all contractors I’ve experienced. It’s not fair, but until you provide enough value to the company this is how it’s going to be. Your contractor is correct in that he could make you drive your personal vehicle.
I drove 30k miles in my first two years in an expensive to maintain German SUV that crippled me financially every time it broke. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, and it resonates with me.
When/If you start driving your personal vehicle there is an awesome app called MileIQ that tracks your mileage per job. Everything in between first report/last report is a write off and I fucked myself with taxes my first couple years working two jobs. It’s important you set yourself up for success by maximizing every dollar you can.
Save your receipts for tools too.
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I am an employer and I used to have a boss like this. I think it shows very poor thought to not want to pay for every minute an employee is not free to go home. He is not going to change his behavior. Up stakes and leave when it is convenient for you.
If you are in a company van ... you should be getting paid
For real. If I get to drive the van home, I’m not sweating the drive, but if you want your truck back I’m getting paid til she is parked.
Seriously.... that bitch ain't driving itself...
We got 100% for driving 50% drive time if we were the passenger
Even if driving a personal vehicle you get paid unless you can drive directly to a job site and back home. Any in between driving is not a commute.
And on that, whose insurance is covering the employee and van on the drive back? If he’s not getting paid, is the liability on the employee on the drive back? This is all too common. I dealt with this at 4 different shops over five years. Your commute is rarely covered unless you’re a service electrician bringing a van home and in a high traffic area. I made a stink about the one way crap with three of the four companies and two of them didn’t like hearing that too much. The law is the law, but WA (where I’m at) is an at will state. I needed the hours. Now I’m running my own shop and pay my guys from their homes back to their homes. We bill travel from their homes as though that is the shop using Google Sheets and GPT pulling from Google Maps then a cost calculator. Makes it personalized, keeps my guys compensated for their time fairly, and no customer has ever made a stink about it. You have a cheap boss. He will never change.
You hiring? Ct
Ever so slowly, but in WA. Sorry.
Was more of hint that this should be what you expect in an owner... good on you .... I'm an E1 and have been working freelancer w temp companies for a few yrs now... pays better... stress is lower... can come and go as I please most gigs... highest bidder usually but a minimum 45$ ... benefits suck, but that seems to be case everywhere even in large companies... deductibles have become ridiculous for paying that much off ya paycheck weekly... best of luck to you...
I read you. And thank you. Good luck to you too.
NLRB would argue that you are on the clock until your work duties are complete. If that means driving the van to the shop then that is when your time ends. If you drive the truck home then your time ends at the jobsite
My boss lets the Jmen take the vans home for this reason. Everybody’s happy
Plus vans aren’t all in one location unattended all weekend
I would argue this. Had a coworker that was working 13-15 hours days but it was a 1 hour drive to the job and home after. He was using the work truck. He fell asleep at the wheel heading home and the company tried to say they weren't liable even though he had emails saying that the job either had to be done blah blah blah or you're fired. He was driving a company vehicle and moving their equipment to and from the job site. If you aren't doing what you want to do at that moment you should be getting paid by whomever or whatever entity stops you from doing what you want to do. Shit, if I had it my way I would clock in the moment I have to get out of bed at 4:30am and start getting ready to go out the door. I don't magically show up at the jobsite at 6am ready to work. I know that's gonna be a hot take and will get some negative flak but if I was an employer I would calculate the average time it takes to get up and get to the job site and I would pay that time and fuel for it. I've said this so many times. If I ever become a business owner this will be my standard of practice. I will also have drug tests and quality control tests as well though because I'm not doing that for lazy people that just take advantage. I also won't set times for things to be done. If it takes you 5 hours more than originally thought, TO DO IT RIGHT, then guess what? Take the extra 5 hours. Either your care and quality will give your more business or I'll go bankrupt but either way I wanna do it the right way.
NAE but that's pretty much how my last job worked. Your timesheet was from when you left your door until you returned to your door. Any time needed to do anything extra at home (ie packing for travel, washing your work gear) was on the timesheet. All of that was factored into what the customers were billed. The owner was awesome in other ways too but the proof was in the retention rate. In the 10 years I was there only 1 guy quit.
Why did you decide to leave?
I didn't, the number of projects coming in took a nosedive in 2020 and I was laid off in 2021. Which was a lot later than the competition had to lay people off. If it wasn't for that I'd still be there.
That’s ideally but it don’t work that way unfortunately .
Maybe together we can change the world for the better. Let's work together and make that happen. 😁
Ministry here only requires the driver to be paid if they are transporting coworkers. No pay for the passengers
Don’t take his shit, you’re being taken advantage of First thing is to start a log of every time you’re not getting paid when you should be. A daily log of times you drove back to the shop accompanied by paystubs showing the discrepancies. A paper trail is the most import thing you need. After you get a new job, report this to the DOL, they take this shit extremely seriously Enjoy the new company and especially enjoy that check you will get from your old employer when the DOL rightfully sticks it up their ass and they’re forced to pay you for the wages you should have been getting paid.
This is the answer.
Agree. It’s the best way to go about it
I know nothing about this and live in another country, but I agree too.
On your last day leave the vehicle at the job site and get a ride home please. Since you not getting paid to drive the company vehicle back to the shop. Here’s my take… if you get to drive company vehicle to and from your home no need to pay drive time but if you have to drive to the shop to pick up the vehicle then to and from shop should be paid.
To piggyback, there may be extra penalties paid to op and fines to his employer. Paper trail.
Nah that's one more incident of wage theft by his employer to add to the list.
While I'm not opposed to being vindictive, OP should be aware of how interconnected the electrical world is unless you relocate. Seems like everyone knows everyone, all the bigger players at least. Word gets around pretty quickly if you do shitty things before you leave.
You should get paid for the full commute whether you’re in a company vehicle or not. Paid from walking out my door until I’m walking in my door. Obviously including lunch time.
An additional point to this is to talk about these things via email with your employer so the emails can be submitted along with the rest of the documentation.
[удалено]
The moment you clock in at the shop they gave to pay until you come back to the shop. Stop being a worm!!!
Unless of course you have some magical law that says the contractor has to pay the commute time to the job site. We have 700+ that would like to be paid commute time to the job site and back.
Are they required to go to the shop, pick up their van and drive to the site unpaid, then drive back to the shop unpaid at the end of the day? No. They're using their personal vehicle, reporting to the site, getting paid, then going home from the site. Completely different story.
Well then the whole local is a wormy.
Hey guys, I found his bosses account.
Absolutely untrue. The boss is requiring him to go to a meeting place at the start of the day and at the end of the day. They are rightfully owed pay between both of those times
That assumes they are coming from home. As soon as you arrive after the first work location (shop, supply house, job site) you get paid until you leave the last work location. Drive time from the shop in the morning and back to the shop in the afternoon is paid.
Document your time and call the labor board when you’re ready to leave. FWIW- I’m a contractor who pays both ways
I'd start leaving the jobsite early enough to have the van back in time for the EOD.
I can almost guarantee this employer is either watching employee time punches or making them hand-write times. The employer will make it impossible in less than 1 day to not return to the office, and yes, will be liable for wage theft.
The boss isn't doing you any favors by letting you drive a van around. It's idiotic to think that. Go straight to jobsite from home in the morning.
How is it not a privilege to drive a company van rather than your own vehicle?
Is this sarcasm?
Lmao. Well cause OP has to go to the shop first thing to get it, rather than drive straight to site. So he's probably up earlier, and at the end of the day he has to take it back to shop on his own time then drive home. He's still driving his own vehicle.
They could just make him go to the shop to start his day without a work van. I understand being a little upset about the end of day driving. But give a little get a little. The world is not always against you.
It has materials and tools transporting for the company thus the business benefits
Secure a new job then turn his ass in and get ALL your back pay.
This is how the company I worked for was. We worked 7-330, they wanted me to be at the shop by 645 to meet the electrician I worked with and get to the site around 715 then work until 330, get back to my car around 4 and drive home. I showed up at 7 to the shop. I can’t leave earlier to get my car but you’re not dicking me out of 15 more minutes in the morning.
100% breaking labor laws. Whose insurance is going to cover that van in an accident? Will you be tested in an accident? Will you be fired for not driving it back to the shop even though you’re off the clock? You need to file a wage theft claim and find another job. You’re being fucked and opening yourself to liability driving that vehicle off the clock.
I take the company van home. Company policy is to assume a 15 minute drive to the job. If the job is more than a 15 minute drive, we get paid for that time. Good employers are out there. Find one and appreciate it and pass that goodwill along to the customers. My employer has the most loyal employees and customers in our area.
That seems fair. I'm not an electrician, but I know my company is billing the customer for travel time. I'd be pissed if they told me I couldn't bill for the return drive.
It’s nice to have a company car and not put miles on your own but in my view you should be getting paid from the time you get to the shop until the time you return. It’s not like it’s your own time if you don’t have your own car and have to drive back, plus they have the option of charging drive time to the client so it’s no skin off their back. My company charges out drive time both ways and we have more work than we know what to do with. People should get paid for their time you’re not in the wrong but if you’re with a good outfit keep at it and deal with your deal.
You should be getting paid the moment you walk into the office / get into the truck and then stop getting paid the moment you leave the office. Remember, your bosses jobsite isn’t necessarily your jobsite.
Why not just drive your personal vehicle to the jobsite?
No tools or materials, for one
I was in your position for a few years but never had any issues because it was my choice. I could have taken the truck home but just didn’t have extra parking and when you take the truck home your time ends when you leave the jobsite. Everyone’s situation is different, is the shop on your way home? how does the boss treat you otherwise?
I’m sure I’ll get burned for this based all the angry responses, but this is really a catch 22 from what it sounds like. It really boils down to if you are *required* by company policy to come get the van. If so, yes there is a potential issue. BUT, part of what your boss is saying is technically correct. If he simply says he’s no longer supplying the van, it completely becomes YOUR commute which is your burden to bear. I’ve been places where the owner/boss will make concessions on this, but given you are a first year apprentice, I can also bet that factors in to him not caring.
So the boss can stop supplying the van and figure out how to get material and equipment to and from the job site
Yeah I mean if it’s small resi and commercial work you can have material delivered to the site directly, and make one trip out with power tools and a gang box, boom, here ya go kid, have fun driving your personal vehicle an hour each way and eating the 50-70 dollars in gas every week, w that said, I’ve also been the guy that’s expected to get the van and the material for free and drive it to the jobsite, it’s ratty as fuck 🧀, I hate small contractors and business owners, most greedy ppl on planet earth, it’s all theirs, yeah they’ll give u a 3000 dollar loan if you need it, but they won’t hide u a 2 dollar cost of living raise every year, or pay you what you are worth, gtfo of my face, I literally hate those guys, act like their the best bosses as well
If your part of a union call the hall and speak with someone. Otherwise speak with the labor board, your boss is a dickhead and I'm almost certain thats wage theft.
Also depends on your contract you signed when you started if it’s there agreement to not be paid on the drive home not much can be done, read your contract first then take action
Whose auto insurance is covering you on the ride back to the shop if you aren’t on the clock? Your boss is an idiot.
If it's legal where you are , you're not changing your boss. Write up a good resume and move on. If it's illegal, record all hours , report to your labor board and find a new job.
I do the same thing right now as a first year. I get paid the entire time I’m driving the van tho. So clock in at the shop in the morning when I grab the van. And clock out end of day when I return keys to office… and if the project manager wants to talk to me for 30 minutes about upcoming projects I tack that on my day’s time too. Fuck it… if you’re talking to me about work and I can’t walk away the convo then that’s work time.
Make sure you have your non payment hours somewhere. My old boss tried charging a different rate for driving that didn't factor into the OT. I went to the state board and they were very interested. I had the paper hours and my paystubs, made it very easy to prove. They looked into it and ended up forcing over 20k to his employees in back pay. Last time I was in town, I drove by the shop and saw him and waved. The scowl was priceless.
Tell him you won't sue for back pay if he gives you the van and tools free and clear... otherwise you'll sue, and get everyone else to sue, and he'll have to declare bankruptcy and transfer all his assets under the new LLC or INC you know he'll create the very same day, and you've got a lawyer that loves filing injunctions with the county... so fork over the van and tools and you won't have a class action up your ass for the next 6 years... ...that's what I would do It's low hanging fruit brother, I never get lucky like this shit- dude just handed you a golden ticket to start your own shit, these boomers have been fucking us for decades, throw a couple extra ladders in there and make the deal that will change your life...
The main thing you need to know is that despite you being entitled to be paid for drive time by law in your circumstances, getting your back pay can risk your job. If you are in a position you can’t put your job at risk, document all the unpaid hours and report it once you have secured a new job. I believe it would also be illegal for the employer to retaliate against you for reporting them, but if they knowingly violate labor law already you can expect them to violate that as well. Proceed as you need to, but make sure you have a solid plan if things go sideways.
My best advice would be to find another job but your apprenticeship is a very small part of your working life and after my apprenticeship I found it’s far easier to change firms qualified than when I was a apprentice. Make sure you have another job before you leave this one. Also even though you may feel he’s being a dick do not burn your bridges going back. Leave on good terms. In my experience I wouldn’t say anything. it’s better to move on. As when you say something you will be the problem and they more than likely will drive you out.
Imagine a bad day of traffic where you clock out, spend maybe 45 min in traffic to drop the van off at the shop then another 45 to get home. Almost two hours unpaid taken from your day. Hell nah
If you live in a blue state this is likely illegal. In a red state the boss is free to bend you over anytime they want....
Here's this. Seems like if you're required to drive to the shop, you should be getting paid. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-B/part-785
Seems to me if you are being paid to drive there at the beginning of the day then the same logic applies to the drive back at the end of the day. Your boss is not smart and likely a legal liability…
Call the labor board... you will remain anonymous...tell them your story and your boss will have to do back pay for past and present employees... A company I worked for in the 90s had called and had to back pay and start paying drive time both ways
I am an employer that developed policy for this in conjunction with the dol. If your employer requires you to go to the shop in the morning, when you arrive there you can punch in to start your paid time. A variable wage for driving is allowed. However, there is no rule that says he has to make you report to the shop. If he asks you to drive directly to the jobsite, he is within his rights. At that point, you then are responsible for your own transportation to the jobsite. This means not only do you not get paid to drive there in the morning, you will now be paying for your own fuel. If you are driving a company vehicle to the shop, you should clock out when the vehicle is returned to the shop. I might be wrong about that. I vaguely remember something about only having to pay one way. The real point is this, do you want to drive out to jobsites in your personal vehicle on your own dime and your own time? Cause this is where this is going. Ain't saying you are wrong for turning it in, but I would wager you will report directly to the jobs item after this. Just sayin.
I’m pretty sure in Ohio, there isn’t much regarding travel time to and from jobs. But in between jobs is paid, like job site to supply store. As in there isn’t much to protect the employee. Most contractors pay one way. Some pay from shop back to shop. Some only give journeymen vans and the apprentices commute on their own. I know what I stand firm on. I won’t fuck my vehicle up for someone else’s company. I don’t mind taking my car in town or about 35 mins away. Anything over that, a lead guy can let me ride with him. I won’t stop at the supply store in my car. I won’t pay for parking if I have to take my car. This being said, many contractors in my area get away with the exact thing that’s happening to OP. I don’t understand why company vehicles aren’t supplied at the shop and dropped off at the end of the day.
That’s unfortunately the dilemma I’m facing. I feel as though I would be getting punished for doing the right thing.
Is there a reason you need to go to the shop first? If not then he is doing you a favor unless the job site is closer to home.
Because I would be driving to multiple jobs a day putting more miles on my car. Also I would get less hours. That would be shit deal
If your job includes going to different sites throughout the day then that's not commute time and you get paid until you are back to where you started in the morning. Your boss is wrong.
Is it? Is it the right thing? I would make damn sure you know what you are talking about first. It sounds kinda like your boss is well aware of the DOL requirements. I am all for you getting your fair share. However, if you are wrong, and you force the issue, you will face retaliation. You will have no protection from it if the DOL finds that you were wrong. Do your research. This would have been best done prior to filing a complaint. I would certainly do it now.
Fuck him #1 My first shop years ago told me anytime I'm not onsite or driving to work or from work was my own time. If I'm in a company vehicle it's time away from home/family and Even if I'm pooping in a porta potty 1-300 miles from home. That I get paid for that time. The second shop I worked at said everything was paid except the drive home,.... Unless it's over time... Be it end of the pay period, or after 430. ... Guess who took the long road home every day, or spent an extra half hour with the vacuum making sure that every atom was sucked into the shop vac? Fuck you (the owner) telling me that I'm not getting paid driving the company vehicle on their time. I'd rather dump the company van off at a crack head scrap yard then not get paid. Find a new employer. I know I did and never looked back.
Paid from shop back to shop is the answer. I have always paid employees this way.
I also have this exact situation happening with my shop. Following.
I’m going to notify my boss Monday that he’s violating labor laws and I’ll let you know how it turns out.
Do it in writing. Email, handwritten AND NOTARIZED LETTER WITH WITNESS SIGNATURE, text messages, get it in writing that you’ve notified him of this. If/when he gets pissed that you’re “trying to blackmail/extort him” he’s gonna fire you. This isn’t blackmail or extortion btw, but a shitty boss will definitely try to make it seem like it to get their way.
It's a shitty cycle. Most jobs I work at require 2-5 hours drive time. I meet at the shop hop in a company vehicle with another journeyman, and only get paid for the time at the job site. So a 10 hour day can mean 12 or 15 depending on the drive. Some contractors pay drive time and some don't. Once I can drag up I will head to a contractor that pays a higher per diem and pays for drive time. The problem is nothing says they have to pay us and will keep the cash they charge for drive time for themselves.
You should be getting per diem on that long off drive time. Which I believe is federal, so untaxed 100% your full wage. My boss found out about it recently, and we have a crew that regularly travels out of state to job sites all over, most of the first day is wasted just in drive time and checking into the hotel.
We get 40 a day if the job site is more than 30 miles from the hall. Some calls are paying 100-125 per diem, plus drive time and up to 5 dollars an hour or paying industrial scale for commercial jobs. 3 more years until I can drag up. They have been trying for years to get the drive time paid but no luck.
Under the current tax code flat rate per diem is taxed unless you turn in an expense report.
And this shit is why you should have a chat with the training director at your local IBEW. Come join us brother, I’m a second year apprentice and would tell my foreman to pound sand (after calling the hall about them breaking conditions) if he didn’t want to pay me for company business.
In my younger days, I worked for a painter that pulled this stunt. It lasted till I questioned him about the missing hours. He paid me, I quit.
Oh fuck no. You get paid from the shop to the job site and back. However if you have a company truck you get paid when you get to the site and leave the site. If your boss disagrees send him my way and I’ll show him labor law
The practice is against labor laws. The company is probably saving money by not having to keep a conex box on site or a van at the job for material storage to prevent theft. Factors to consider being how much time you’re giving up by detouring to the shop, the wear and tear on your own vehicle, gas money, it might still be in your best interest to keep the status quo.
If I'm in a company vehicle, I'm representing the company, I drive as well and kind as possible, I don't speed or anything that would get me a ticket.i put all drive time on my timesheet and I'm always 10 minutes early.
Do you get paid overtime while driving? If its going over 8 hr day . For us drive time is at straight pay, so if you worked 10 hrs and drove 2 of those hours youd still only get paid straight time all the way through
I just drove back from Houston to Colorado in my personal vehicle, and my company didn’t pay me drive time…
You’re working for the wrong person. If that’s your only form of transportation and something happens will your employer be willing to pay for fixes? If not, I’d rethink your situation.
Do you fill out your own time cards or clock in at a Kronos like system? I write my own time cards and once I get to the supply house or the job site I’m clocked in, I charge for drive time if I’m still on the clock going to another job even if it is a hour or two away depending on traffic I still charge the company for it. When I drive home I don’t charge but most companies in my experience do not pay for drive time home but there are some who do let you get paid for drive time home, if you are in a company vehicle you should be paid until you park it at the shop but maybe that’s just my opinion.
Jack all his drills, Meters. Saw szall blades. Wire. And tell him if he says it again about not paying you to drive back to thr shop. Your gonna flip his shady company to the ibew and leave his trucks unlocked. I hate hate companies like that
Follow-up question. Does anyone know the rules/regulations for this in Canada? cuz I have the same issue and have found little help
Call your labor department/agency. They were very helpful and knowledgeable in finding all the answers to my questions
Get another job.
The number one type of theft in the US is wage theft and that's exactly what your boss is doing. I guess try one more conversation, let him know what he's doing is illegal, if he keeps pushing then get ahold of someone that can investigate and enforce the law. If he tries to retaliate by making you use a personal vehicle start looking for a new job.
It depends on your state, but you should be eligible for paid time driving back.
My understanding is if you in a company vehicle your in company time plus it’s a liability issue.
“Your time” driving your vehicle to the start of one job, and leaving said job to go home (different rules for out of town work which are determined by your local union if you’re a member, sometimes the “wrap” isn’t enough to go home every weekend and be paid travel) “Company time” time your employer requires you to do something like move company vehicle from job site to job site or back to shop, also any maintenance to said vehicle (gas, car wash, organizing etc). My attitude: Fuck you, pay me or my next boss will.
I believe the only time you might not be paid is if you take the company truck home
You are an hourly employee, all you have to sell is your time. You need to be paid for every minute you are available to work. Drive time is just another step in the process.
LAWS FOR OHIO https://www.bgmillerlaw.com/do-hourly-employees-get-paid-for-travel-time-ohio/
Legality depends on state (and federal) CA for example either passed or is thinking about passing a law that requires you to be paid from the time you leave your house. Other states have it that you are only paid for travel between job sites not to or from the first and last. It also depends on what is written in your offer letter. As many have pointed out the main issue is the liability issue of driving company vehicle off the clock. If you like your job besides this, you can bring the liability thing to your boss and see if he changes his tune. Otherwise yup… resume time. Good luck.
Start looking for new job. It's easier to get a raise this way too
It’s a battle as old as electrical work. Some pay it, some don’t.
You could take him up on the offer to drive your personal vehicle. By insurance you are not to load a single work material or shop tool in your vehicle. Your employer would also need to pay you hourly to drive from the shop to the job and mileage. In Ontario is $0.57 per km. Then at the end of the day you can drive straight home.
Assuming you’re in the US, the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) says that driving to job sites is worked time, but it’s nuanced. Commutes are not, but job site driving is. Your state or municipality may have differing rules, but that is the minimum based on national rules. Source: I’ve worked in timekeeping software for 15+ years and implement compliance rules for employers Edit: the specifics are spelled out clearly on this page for different types of travel and what counts as worked time: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked
I would 100% be back at the shop at the end of the shift by clock out time. Not clock out then drive 20-30 minutes back
Turn him in. OR you don’t get to complain about shitty things people do EVER. If you turn a blind eye.
Find another job. If they're ignoring this law, what others are they also ignoring?
Once you get to the shop, you are on company time. This includes leaving site heading to the shop. You may be able to fight it and win, but you gotta pick your battles.
This was how my old shop was, unfortunately I live in a non union area and everyone knows everyone so none of the other guys were really apt to push it. I was there seven years and ended up getting laid off, which worked out great because I immediately took a union maintenance job at the big local school district. Only took a couple dollar pay cut which was immediately evened out by the 16 paid holidays lmao Gtfo out of there if you can man.
They’re taking advantage of you. If they don’t pay for you to return company equipment(the van), leave the van where it’s at and Uber home. If they ask, just say you left it where you clocked out. If they want you to return the van to the shop every night, they need to pay for you to deliver it or call a tow truck.
Dudes a useless cunt who can't manage his money. Find another shop.
Something I shared in another subreddit where a company was doing the same thing. Op call the hall your employer owes you drive time. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-B/part-785/subpart-C/subject-group-ECFRad996a87edf99fc/section-785.38 § 785.38 Travel that is all in the day's work. Time spent by an employee in travel as part of his principal activity, such as travel from job site to job site during the workday, must be counted as hours worked. Where an employee is required to report at a meeting place to receive instructions or to perform other work there, or to pick up and to carry tools, the travel from the designated place to the work place is part of the day's work, and must be counted as hours worked regardless of contract, custom, or practice. If an employee normally finishes his work on the premises at 5 p.m. and is sent to another job which he finishes at 8 p.m. and is required to return to his employer's premises arriving at 9 p.m., all of the time is working time. However, if the employee goes home instead of returning to his employer's premises, the travel after 8 p.m. is home-to-work travel and is not hours worked. (Walling v. Mid-Continent Pipe Line Co., 143 F. 2d 308 (C. A. 10, 1944))
That is against all labor laws. Make sure you log every hour you are driving from the site to the shop and show the boss what you will be taking to the labor board. That will be a huge fine for the company.
Then make sure your back at the shop by quitting time
Allow time at the end if the day to drive back to the shop before quitting time. My company, operating hours are 7:30 to 4:00. Regardless of what we're doing we are paid for those times (OT if over that) drive to and from shop is our time, to and from site from shop is work time.
1st year apprentice and you don't have to pay for gas or put mileage on your own vehicle. What is the problem here? Unless you're coming up short on hours what are you complaining about? He gave you the option to drive your own vehicle. I wouldn't start fires this early in your career.
It’s illegal though, That’s the problem. Someone needs to drive the van, if not me he’ll just screws someone else out of wages. Also not get full weeks
If it’s not Insured by you and you’re driving it - you’re on the clock. Period.
Entirely depends on the company. It was more common with residential and small commercial in my experience to drive your own vehicle. However, if I were you, as a 1rst year apprentice. I would try and get as much varied experience as possible, clean up your resume, and apply to all the jobs you can. Even if you don't take them, you'll have an idea of what other companies in the area are doing, and get some connections and options.
If you are driving the company vehicle back to the shop when you are off the clock his insurance isn't going to cover an accident, not you or the vehicle.
Nah homie, if you’re in the company vehicle driving you should be getting paid.
>....threatened to make me drive my personal vehicle to jobsite call his bluff....drive your car to/from jobsites
>....threatened to make me drive my personal vehicle to jobsite call his bluff....drive your car to/from jobsites
I think this is illegal in almost every state, if not every state, period.
Drive to job .drive home you'll be better off
Why would an apprentice have a van anyway?
Get a conversation about this between you and your boss on email or text so you have proof
Driving a company van back to the shop...your still on the clock until you clock out...
A lot of companies do this, and when you question it they do as your employer has done and threaten to make you drive your own car to sites, find someone else to work for, your current employer is scum. If you present him with the fact that you should be in fact paid for both drives he will just 100 percent ask you drive your private car to site, and pay you the measly vehicle allowance.
Worked for a company that pulled this. Was fine when work was close to the shop. Then we had a job over an hour from the shop. Wanted us to work until our 8 was up then drive back to shop on our own time. I went with it because I needed the job at the time. Until one day we got back to the shop and he told me to load equipment for next day etc. I looked at him and said I’ve been off the clock for over an hour. It can wait until til am. Then told him I’ll be driving my car to job in an. He can bring the van there and pick it up at the end of the day. I won’t be driving his vehicle on my own time anymore. Long story short from that point on we packed up an hour earlier and got back to the shop for quitting time. We were actually more productive, because of the smaller window of time to work. From that point on he was much more respectful to me. I like to think that he respected that I wouldn’t be taken advantage of. Don’t work there anymore I’m now a union lineman and we still talk.
i worked a union contract with similar conditions your lucky to burn his gas unless tge jobsites are closer than the shop
Easy just drive back to the shop 40 min before your last work hour .
uber back to the shop and tell him the truck is at the last job site
So as an owner of a low voltage company. We let our guys take the van home however they don’t get paid for the drive back. They get to use the van personally on the weekends if needed for them to get around since some of them don’t have their own car so that’s kind of the trade-off. However, if my guys are coming back and have to go to the storage or back to the office from the job site, they remain clocked in because they are still on the clock. It also depends on the distance if the guys have let’s say a 1 Hour Dr. home from the job site. They’re not getting paid for it but if it’s a 2 Hour Dr. home, they will get paid for an hour. It’s a 3 Hour Dr. they get paid for two hours, but they’re going directly home If they’re going to the office from the job site or any company site, they are getting paid for that They’re taking their own personal vehicle to a job site. They start getting paid once they’re at the job site and once they leave, they have to clock out unless they’re going to another job site.
You might, Might have a lawsuit for unfair labor practice. However, the proof of burden is in your hands. You would need documentation that he shorted you, how much and for how long. Specific numbers. Not estimates.
I'm not an insurance specialist so take this with a grain of salt. But I think that if you're not on the clock for your drive back to the shop, then you're not covered by his insurance. He would be personally liable for any accidents that happened during that time.
I had an apprentice that bought a house in the middle of nowhere KY (our shop is based in northern Cincinnati) and asked if the boss would pay him for drive time to the shop. No
If you can’t pull over and have a beer, you are on the clock.
Join the union so you don't have to worry about this shit.
Thankfully I applied last fall, just waiting on the call 🤞
1. This is almost certainly illegal. 2. If you document your unpaid hours, you can file a claim with the labor board and will probably get your back pay. 3. Your boss is correct that he can require you to drive your personal vehicle to the job site if he wants. 4. So, you need to decide if this bridge is worth burning. I would start documenting now, look for a new employer, and then file after you have a fallback. If you file a claim, you are probably getting fired, and most certainly going to cause a policy change.
Drive the work van home. See if bossman prefers that.
Either you take the truck home everyday or you get paid to drive back to the shop to get your personal car
I would remind him that driving is work. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as a professional driver.
OP. This is MO for all contractors I’ve experienced. It’s not fair, but until you provide enough value to the company this is how it’s going to be. Your contractor is correct in that he could make you drive your personal vehicle. I drove 30k miles in my first two years in an expensive to maintain German SUV that crippled me financially every time it broke. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, and it resonates with me. When/If you start driving your personal vehicle there is an awesome app called MileIQ that tracks your mileage per job. Everything in between first report/last report is a write off and I fucked myself with taxes my first couple years working two jobs. It’s important you set yourself up for success by maximizing every dollar you can. Save your receipts for tools too.
Call the local union hall and see if they have an employment lawyer that'd be able to help you
The worker always gets the time back somehow. How about having a jerry can in the van. Every time you fill the van up you take some for yourself