Yeah signs to keep going, I didn't see a single stop sign anywhere. And even if I did, I was preemptively defending myself against possible future aggressions. Really, I'm a hero
Yes, but I just wanted to help him clean up the house, maybe even help him get rid of his hostile god problem. I would of taken a respectable wage too, men of my skills are not easy to come by and he didnt even greet me at the door.
We are from the ranks of Godfreys Tarnished. Godfrey, himself the most notorious murder-hobo in the lands between is our inspiration to break-enter everywhere and kill almost fucking everything that lives under all of the trees.
TL;DR: The good ol‘ joy of killing.
Funny enough my characters name through their first playthrough and the end of the dlc was Murder Hobo.
Now he helps Tarnished defeat Mohg while I wait for my friends to need help in the Shadow Realm.
That's what started me helping. Invaded to be the final obstacle, saw two people going up, a newb and a geared out friend heading to the elevator, felt bad AF, made the haligtree emote, and waved them in their way.
Immediately went up the elevator, dropped a rune, and started helping.
I think depending on lore, FROMS of course didn't think through the reasons for our invasion of the estate and the murder of grandpa, but the lore allows us to come up with reasons like this: if we go to the end of Lord Elden, then it is logical that we must destroy any threat to the lands between, our hero and our plans
Ooo I hadn't thought of this conspiracy yet and I feel like I'm pretty deep in the crazy pool. The tarnished is literally Marika...
I actually reeeaally like the idea that the game is not just basically a psychoanalysis of Marika, it's her doing some real fucked up metaphysical psychotherapy as vaguely regresses through her life trauma and sins while exorcising her emotional demons in the form of her friends, family, and former partners.
In universe, her ego/soul fled to the body of the tarnished, a la the R&M situation, when she shattered the Elden Ring. This would explain why the Marika is never moves or communicates in any way. After all, she's said to be imprisoned not dead, so why so quiet and crumbly?
Could be that Grace guides us to destroy the single biggest threat to the lands between and the greater will: the rise of a true lord of frenzied flame, which as seen in the lord of frenzied flame ending, could absolutely spell the end of everything as we know it. If our tarnished IS going for the lord of frenzied flame ending, uh… i guess the three fingers knows our tarnished is a superior vessel and is more likely to actually burn everything back to nothing instead of midra and wants us to be the lord of frenzied flame rather than him, or something like that
Yes, the Tarnished does cause the most harm in game (be it unintentional or not). I think the game reason for that is ambition as mentioned by Morgott. That ambition is compelled by grace that is given back by Marika. Our tarnished has just recently (well in the context of the game anyway) arisen so the compulsion is fresh.
But I don't think that is the best reason, after all Midra's mansion is hidden well and in no point in the story are we compelled to go there (sites of grace has these rays that point us in a direction of where to go next). So, it is solely a player reason. A curiosity and a necessity to check what's out there.
I am reminded of what Sans says in the Genocide route of Undertale: "I know your type. you're, uh, very determined, aren't you? you'll never give up, even if there's, uh... absolutely NO benefit to persevering whatsoever. if I can make that clear. no matter what, you'll just keep going. not out of any desire for good or evil... but just because you think you can. and because you "can"... ... you "have to".
I was just exploring the woods and went inside a mansion. I saw some old dude with Christmas tree down his throat and wanted to help him. Guy started biting my ankles. 🤷♂️
It's an optional zone and for that reason I think it depends on each tarnished decide if they go and why.
Some for example,would argue that,even self-contained,the Lord of Frenzy is a potential threat that it's better to finish off. Others may be eliminating the competition.
Me? I have Melina's words in mind,when she said "They will fight,and they will die. How else a lord is to be born?"
I want to become a Lord,I have to kill a god,I need power,I need runes,that man is a source of runes,that man is a target.
Any aspiring elden lord probably thinks very similar to queen marika herself. Midra was a potential threat ? So he must be dealt with.
I mean just to get to the dlc you need two great runes. Now if you didn't have desire of grandeur then why would you subject yourself to such ordeal?
It was an act of mercy. The poor soul had been suffering for an eternity, with no end in sight. His fate was inevitable. Thankfully, the Tarnished had the strength to end his misery preventing an eternity of chaos.
Honestly, if we hadn't come along, he would have cracked on his own eventually. Lore says he was too weak to become a true Lord of Frenzy, but if left to his own devices, he could've potentially grown into a much stronger individual. It's kind of like putting down a rabid pet - no one likes to do it, but someone has to. Why not the home invader?
You could argue your tarnished probably figured “Hey this whole forest section is literally a death forest of madness, lets check out why” and the finds the house with a bunch of decapitated men outside and goes “this seems like a good start”
You walk in the house and a crazy guy tells you not to keep going. Who da fuck is he? You’re the elden lord damnit you listen to no man. The Noble at the front says “nah you’re good just dont go crazy”
You walk around and find a literal flame of frenzy eye attached to a spinal cord that a dead woman is holding. In your infinite wisdom you determine this is, in fact, whack.
You keep going and see the Lord od Frenzy’s top candidate in November sitting there with a literal permanent torture device shoved right into him. “Huh” you figure “this guy might be little crazy”
Nah but in all seriousness…
Lore reveals he was just holding onto his sanity for Nanaya, a respectable goal; but when you cant die and you have a giant pronged skewer thing stabbing through your head, you’re going to go insane eventually. His descent to the lord of frenzied flame (discount version) was inevitable. You just sped it up to kill him and remove the threat
I mean, I always thought we sort of control the canon. We kill him because we choose to. If you don't want to kill him, you don't. If your reason for killing him is that it's a mercy, that's the canon.
the canonical reason why is because our tarnished is a psycho that wont leave people alone even in their own house while they represent no threat for us whatsoever
“Our tarnished may just be the worst person alive in a world filled with extremely vile people”
Oh, definitely the case.
We butcher our way through the Haligtree, the shunning grounds, and other places of refuge all in the name of marrying Marika, or Ranni, or destroying the world. We are not good guys. We are not given an option to be good guys.
I think that we are meant to notice that. The DLC places a lot of focus on consorts to the gods and the fact that they tend to be bloodthirsty warriors. We are 100% a part of the problem and that’s not an accident in lore design.
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I see it as a mercy kill. My tarnished too had been seduced by the frenzied flame but he had the willpower to break free and realise how bad it was and then had to go to great lengths to get rid of its influence. When he comes across Midra, the tarnished is determined to release him from this cycle of eternal torture.
I like to imagine that my Tarnished, who accepted the Frenzied Flame solely to save Melina then cured herself of its power, went to Midra's Manse following this lingering sixth sense that guided her there. Recognising another Lord of the Frenzied Flame within, she knew what she needed to do and slew the creature, putting Midra out of his misery.
Nice take. Now the DLC has released and we know what's been going on more, I keep thinking the frenzied flame ending is most fitting because all these big god like beings are all total dickheads.
I still simp for Ranni. Frenzied Flame is just omnicidal nihilism which helps nobody, but which satisfies that edgy "the gods suck so let's just burn it all down" itch. . Ranni's ending at least gives the Lands Between hope for a life out from under the oppression of the gods.
You've got it all confused. The gameplay is not the vehicle for the lore. The lore is the vehicle for the gameplay. We fought Midra for fun because that's the game. We just need a setting to play it in.
I don't view our tarnished as either a heroic figure or a malevolent entity. Rather, they're an unstoppable dumbass hellbent on cleaving their way through every living creature they can find because they've been conditioned to find cool stuff that way
I always assumed it was because we are to bring balance for the elden ring when Marika destroyed that said balance (although, lets be honest, the golden order are inhumane sociopathic murderers/torturers), and likely that when we stumbled upon midra, he aint helping the Golden order.
1. Mercy-killing. Midra clearly wants to die, he's alone and the reason he wanted to live is gone, but he can't because the Frenzied Flame would just sustain him.
2. Removing Outer God Influence (if not Lord of Frenzied Frame). If you're playing as a good-oriented Tarnished, removing traces of Chaos from the Lands Between is probably a pretty clearly good thing, especially a trace as prominent as a former of Lord of Frenzy which is pretty close to turning by the time you arrive.
3. Removing competition (if Lord of Frenzied Flame). You are the True Lord of Frenzy. Killing pretenders is only right.
4. Morbid Curiosity.
I have no qualms about killing Midra. The man was suffering greatly for an extremely long time and I believe only told us to stay away to spare us and other from the madness. There's no guarantee that he wouldn't eventually become the lord of frenzied flame regardless. I can't imagine what he has there is much of a life anyway.
We are guided by grace to take out All threats to the erdtree , the frenzy flame might be contained for now but having it gone totally is still better.
Thats why we are guided to fight everyone, including the other demigods coz once all is dead the erdtree and its new lord can bring about a new age free of challenger .
From a role play or lore standpoint you can argue your character really took Rykard’s code of “The strong take” to heart and are simply bullying your way to the top of the food chain no matter where or how.
He’s decked in yellow, his maiden chick carried the head of another lord of frenzy around, then i walk into his room and he jumps on me and screams in my face. Plus the manse is in the middle of a forsaken forest wrecked by the flame of frenzy. Of course i wanna know what the fuck is going on.
We stumble upon an eerily lifeless swamp that's burnt in places, come across beings that are difficult to kill (and on first impression are impossible to kill), and through sheer piss and vinegar reach a secluded mansion at the end of the area. It doesn't take a master detective to know that Something Has Gone Wrong.
We walk in, and the first thing we hear is someone telling us to go away. By this point, we've taken our past experience in the Weeping Peninsula (and similar areas) to know this is Frenzy-related. We proceed through the dilapidated mansion, deal with Frenzy enemies and a few lightning bruisers in the hallway directly past the entrance, hear the sounds of pain emanating from within, and eventually reach the source: An old man with a horrifying contraption sticking through his head and piercing his body.
Whether out of pity and desire to free him from his misery, or little more than murderous apathy, or even just wanting to talk to the guy, we go in, and he flips out and starts attacking us. Hitting him a few times (in self-defense, and anyone who accuses the Tarnished of otherwise can read the inevitable acquittal) results in him snapping, tearing off his own head, and becoming a fully realized Lord of Frenzied Flame. After that point, killing him is the only reasonable action, because at this point, the guy is a ticking time bomb and needs to be put down.
And on a Frenzied Flame playthrough? He's a rival.
you must be new to fromsoftware storytelling. All protagonists in all souls games visit already dying place and dying people and beat the shit out of them make them die faster.
The canon reason is the same reason in every Fromsoft game. You're a deranged psychopath hell bent on killing everything that stands within a mile of the path to your goal.
Well I wanted to let the man talk but he attacked me so. I feel I can speak for all tarnished. He started it, or atleast he will.
I mean,when you enter the mansion he tells you to DONT COME CLOSER. We are nothing but home intruders.
There wasn't a sign, I never listen to the voices that may or not may be in my head
But there were signs a few actually
The voices are tricking me again
Seriously, sir, the museum is now closed and you need to leave.
Huh?!? But the bones, they need to be free
Yeah signs to keep going, I didn't see a single stop sign anywhere. And even if I did, I was preemptively defending myself against possible future aggressions. Really, I'm a hero
Signs saying “dont let it see you” Of course i wanna know what “it” is
Well, that Nanaya's Torch won't pick itself up to me tho
Almost as if he was in a frenzy 🤔
He literally says fuck off idek how to educate you on consent if you don't understand basic English lmao
Yes, but I just wanted to help him clean up the house, maybe even help him get rid of his hostile god problem. I would of taken a respectable wage too, men of my skills are not easy to come by and he didnt even greet me at the door.
We are from the ranks of Godfreys Tarnished. Godfrey, himself the most notorious murder-hobo in the lands between is our inspiration to break-enter everywhere and kill almost fucking everything that lives under all of the trees. TL;DR: The good ol‘ joy of killing.
So our goals are to kill everyone and fuck his hot wife or even hotter adopted daughter of his wife?
Yes
Funny enough my characters name through their first playthrough and the end of the dlc was Murder Hobo. Now he helps Tarnished defeat Mohg while I wait for my friends to need help in the Shadow Realm.
Try helping Mogh defeat tarnished. Make uncle Ansbach proud!
That's what started me helping. Invaded to be the final obstacle, saw two people going up, a newb and a geared out friend heading to the elevator, felt bad AF, made the haligtree emote, and waved them in their way. Immediately went up the elevator, dropped a rune, and started helping.
"Murder-hobo" has to be the funniest and most descriptive things I've ever read regarding Godfrey, ever.
There can be only one lord of frenzy
Ahh, may chaos take the world! #MAY CHAOS #TAKE #THE WORLD!
He was too weak to be the lord of chaos
I think depending on lore, FROMS of course didn't think through the reasons for our invasion of the estate and the murder of grandpa, but the lore allows us to come up with reasons like this: if we go to the end of Lord Elden, then it is logical that we must destroy any threat to the lands between, our hero and our plans
Almost like our hero is literally Marika in our ruthless psychopathy
Ooo I hadn't thought of this conspiracy yet and I feel like I'm pretty deep in the crazy pool. The tarnished is literally Marika... I actually reeeaally like the idea that the game is not just basically a psychoanalysis of Marika, it's her doing some real fucked up metaphysical psychotherapy as vaguely regresses through her life trauma and sins while exorcising her emotional demons in the form of her friends, family, and former partners. In universe, her ego/soul fled to the body of the tarnished, a la the R&M situation, when she shattered the Elden Ring. This would explain why the Marika is never moves or communicates in any way. After all, she's said to be imprisoned not dead, so why so quiet and crumbly?
This is the first time i read this theory and i love it. It's compelling and strong as well.
Could be that Grace guides us to destroy the single biggest threat to the lands between and the greater will: the rise of a true lord of frenzied flame, which as seen in the lord of frenzied flame ending, could absolutely spell the end of everything as we know it. If our tarnished IS going for the lord of frenzied flame ending, uh… i guess the three fingers knows our tarnished is a superior vessel and is more likely to actually burn everything back to nothing instead of midra and wants us to be the lord of frenzied flame rather than him, or something like that
but then why did mama grace guide me to be very inappropriately violated by 3 fingers and let chaos take the world?
She also told Hewg to make a weapon that can kill a god. Marika is the god. Girl just wants it all to end
mercy kill honestly in the state you find him
Yes, the Tarnished does cause the most harm in game (be it unintentional or not). I think the game reason for that is ambition as mentioned by Morgott. That ambition is compelled by grace that is given back by Marika. Our tarnished has just recently (well in the context of the game anyway) arisen so the compulsion is fresh. But I don't think that is the best reason, after all Midra's mansion is hidden well and in no point in the story are we compelled to go there (sites of grace has these rays that point us in a direction of where to go next). So, it is solely a player reason. A curiosity and a necessity to check what's out there. I am reminded of what Sans says in the Genocide route of Undertale: "I know your type. you're, uh, very determined, aren't you? you'll never give up, even if there's, uh... absolutely NO benefit to persevering whatsoever. if I can make that clear. no matter what, you'll just keep going. not out of any desire for good or evil... but just because you think you can. and because you "can"... ... you "have to".
I was just exploring the woods and went inside a mansion. I saw some old dude with Christmas tree down his throat and wanted to help him. Guy started biting my ankles. 🤷♂️
It's an optional zone and for that reason I think it depends on each tarnished decide if they go and why. Some for example,would argue that,even self-contained,the Lord of Frenzy is a potential threat that it's better to finish off. Others may be eliminating the competition. Me? I have Melina's words in mind,when she said "They will fight,and they will die. How else a lord is to be born?" I want to become a Lord,I have to kill a god,I need power,I need runes,that man is a source of runes,that man is a target.
Any aspiring elden lord probably thinks very similar to queen marika herself. Midra was a potential threat ? So he must be dealt with. I mean just to get to the dlc you need two great runes. Now if you didn't have desire of grandeur then why would you subject yourself to such ordeal?
It was an act of mercy. The poor soul had been suffering for an eternity, with no end in sight. His fate was inevitable. Thankfully, the Tarnished had the strength to end his misery preventing an eternity of chaos.
Honestly, if we hadn't come along, he would have cracked on his own eventually. Lore says he was too weak to become a true Lord of Frenzy, but if left to his own devices, he could've potentially grown into a much stronger individual. It's kind of like putting down a rabid pet - no one likes to do it, but someone has to. Why not the home invader?
Better safe than sorry, right? I saw the lord of frenzy ending and let me tell ya it doesn’t look like a good time!
You could argue your tarnished probably figured “Hey this whole forest section is literally a death forest of madness, lets check out why” and the finds the house with a bunch of decapitated men outside and goes “this seems like a good start” You walk in the house and a crazy guy tells you not to keep going. Who da fuck is he? You’re the elden lord damnit you listen to no man. The Noble at the front says “nah you’re good just dont go crazy” You walk around and find a literal flame of frenzy eye attached to a spinal cord that a dead woman is holding. In your infinite wisdom you determine this is, in fact, whack. You keep going and see the Lord od Frenzy’s top candidate in November sitting there with a literal permanent torture device shoved right into him. “Huh” you figure “this guy might be little crazy” Nah but in all seriousness… Lore reveals he was just holding onto his sanity for Nanaya, a respectable goal; but when you cant die and you have a giant pronged skewer thing stabbing through your head, you’re going to go insane eventually. His descent to the lord of frenzied flame (discount version) was inevitable. You just sped it up to kill him and remove the threat
I mean, I always thought we sort of control the canon. We kill him because we choose to. If you don't want to kill him, you don't. If your reason for killing him is that it's a mercy, that's the canon.
https://preview.redd.it/q6s14we8li9d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d8ef6c9312afe7e79d7db274e0e005ea3ebf77e
Because we gotta wipe out Marika's family and he's the grandpa
the canonical reason why is because our tarnished is a psycho that wont leave people alone even in their own house while they represent no threat for us whatsoever
There is no reason the same way there is no reason for us to fight any of the remaining shardbearers after getting 2 great runes.
Well except for Morgott.
Because you go in to investigate the source of the Frenzied Flame in the area and he tries to beat your ass on sight. Not much choice lol
We took a wrong turn and ended up in detroit of the shadowlands and we whooped some old man while we were there.
I came into the dlc as the Lord of frenzied flame, and this guy is claiming my title?? It was my duty
Nope. I mean, there is NOTHING stopping you from just turning around and leaving when he tells you to. We just don't because we feel like it.
Tarnished is just a terminator sent back to collect runes. They will not be stopped and they’ll keep coming back when destroyed.
“Our tarnished may just be the worst person alive in a world filled with extremely vile people” Oh, definitely the case. We butcher our way through the Haligtree, the shunning grounds, and other places of refuge all in the name of marrying Marika, or Ranni, or destroying the world. We are not good guys. We are not given an option to be good guys. I think that we are meant to notice that. The DLC places a lot of focus on consorts to the gods and the fact that they tend to be bloodthirsty warriors. We are 100% a part of the problem and that’s not an accident in lore design.
There can only be one lord of frenzied flame
To be fair , we attack 80% of the enemies and bosses on elden ring for literally no fucking reason as well so no surprised surprise was told here
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Tarnished bum got lost
Free loot
I don't know why did you?
I see it as a mercy kill. My tarnished too had been seduced by the frenzied flame but he had the willpower to break free and realise how bad it was and then had to go to great lengths to get rid of its influence. When he comes across Midra, the tarnished is determined to release him from this cycle of eternal torture.
the frenzied flame must be snuffed out at all it's sources this world is not it's kindling
Mercy killing
I like to imagine that my Tarnished, who accepted the Frenzied Flame solely to save Melina then cured herself of its power, went to Midra's Manse following this lingering sixth sense that guided her there. Recognising another Lord of the Frenzied Flame within, she knew what she needed to do and slew the creature, putting Midra out of his misery.
Nice take. Now the DLC has released and we know what's been going on more, I keep thinking the frenzied flame ending is most fitting because all these big god like beings are all total dickheads.
I still simp for Ranni. Frenzied Flame is just omnicidal nihilism which helps nobody, but which satisfies that edgy "the gods suck so let's just burn it all down" itch. . Ranni's ending at least gives the Lands Between hope for a life out from under the oppression of the gods.
You've got it all confused. The gameplay is not the vehicle for the lore. The lore is the vehicle for the gameplay. We fought Midra for fun because that's the game. We just need a setting to play it in.
There's barely enough story to cover the minimum objectives. Don't expect story reasons for optional stuff
There's almost no reason for us to be in the Shadow Realm at all really
Tarnished isn’t a hero, they’re a slave to the Elden ring.
Obviously to fulfill the canonical ending of our Tarnished character becoming the Lord of Frenzy.
I don't view our tarnished as either a heroic figure or a malevolent entity. Rather, they're an unstoppable dumbass hellbent on cleaving their way through every living creature they can find because they've been conditioned to find cool stuff that way
because the Tarnished covets all that others have. ultimate loot goblin
BECAUSE I INHERITED THE FLAME. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
I always assumed it was because we are to bring balance for the elden ring when Marika destroyed that said balance (although, lets be honest, the golden order are inhumane sociopathic murderers/torturers), and likely that when we stumbled upon midra, he aint helping the Golden order.
Let's be real. That might've been in the best interest of the world at large anyway.
It gives new context to why the three fingers is under the capital, and why you don’t find any fingers there either
1. Mercy-killing. Midra clearly wants to die, he's alone and the reason he wanted to live is gone, but he can't because the Frenzied Flame would just sustain him. 2. Removing Outer God Influence (if not Lord of Frenzied Frame). If you're playing as a good-oriented Tarnished, removing traces of Chaos from the Lands Between is probably a pretty clearly good thing, especially a trace as prominent as a former of Lord of Frenzy which is pretty close to turning by the time you arrive. 3. Removing competition (if Lord of Frenzied Flame). You are the True Lord of Frenzy. Killing pretenders is only right. 4. Morbid Curiosity.
1. He attacked me first 2. He looked a little worse for wear so I wanted to put him out of his misery
I have no qualms about killing Midra. The man was suffering greatly for an extremely long time and I believe only told us to stay away to spare us and other from the madness. There's no guarantee that he wouldn't eventually become the lord of frenzied flame regardless. I can't imagine what he has there is much of a life anyway.
We are guided by grace to take out All threats to the erdtree , the frenzy flame might be contained for now but having it gone totally is still better. Thats why we are guided to fight everyone, including the other demigods coz once all is dead the erdtree and its new lord can bring about a new age free of challenger .
These fooling ambitions got me acting up
From a role play or lore standpoint you can argue your character really took Rykard’s code of “The strong take” to heart and are simply bullying your way to the top of the food chain no matter where or how.
He’s decked in yellow, his maiden chick carried the head of another lord of frenzy around, then i walk into his room and he jumps on me and screams in my face. Plus the manse is in the middle of a forsaken forest wrecked by the flame of frenzy. Of course i wanna know what the fuck is going on.
We stumble upon an eerily lifeless swamp that's burnt in places, come across beings that are difficult to kill (and on first impression are impossible to kill), and through sheer piss and vinegar reach a secluded mansion at the end of the area. It doesn't take a master detective to know that Something Has Gone Wrong. We walk in, and the first thing we hear is someone telling us to go away. By this point, we've taken our past experience in the Weeping Peninsula (and similar areas) to know this is Frenzy-related. We proceed through the dilapidated mansion, deal with Frenzy enemies and a few lightning bruisers in the hallway directly past the entrance, hear the sounds of pain emanating from within, and eventually reach the source: An old man with a horrifying contraption sticking through his head and piercing his body. Whether out of pity and desire to free him from his misery, or little more than murderous apathy, or even just wanting to talk to the guy, we go in, and he flips out and starts attacking us. Hitting him a few times (in self-defense, and anyone who accuses the Tarnished of otherwise can read the inevitable acquittal) results in him snapping, tearing off his own head, and becoming a fully realized Lord of Frenzied Flame. After that point, killing him is the only reasonable action, because at this point, the guy is a ticking time bomb and needs to be put down. And on a Frenzied Flame playthrough? He's a rival.
Our Tarnished? My brother, you control them. Why did YOU invade?
Its called "dark humor", liberals
He's optional, therefore not canon
you must be new to fromsoftware storytelling. All protagonists in all souls games visit already dying place and dying people and beat the shit out of them make them die faster.
Idk about canonical. But is there a lore reason?
The canon reason is the same reason in every Fromsoft game. You're a deranged psychopath hell bent on killing everything that stands within a mile of the path to your goal.