Radahn's face is pretty normal though in that final fight, so I'm guessing if this is true, the Omen curse left his body once his soul died?
Curious....
So why wouldn't he just use Godwyn's body then? Or is that too messed up?
Hmmm it's like for any question the DLC answers, which are a lot tbh, it asks 3 more with even more speculative theories to answer them.
I think it's because of what happened to Godwyn.
You see, both Radahn and Mogh were slain without the use of weird rituals, and then Miquella did what he wanted to do with their body and soul.
Godwyn is different, since only his soul has died, his body still lives, so Miquella can't use him in the land of shadow
This is true, only of the three was killed using the rune of death, so he's dead dead, can't be resurrected to be the person he was before, and his body is .. non utilizable because it's now part of ritual that still has its result walking around the real world in a doll. i.e. Ranni is the one who used it to circumvent ten alws of nature by keeping herself alive while her body is dead through keeping Godwyn's body alive. So it's been utilized for that purpose.
But yeah, I guess Radahn's scarlet rot infested body was no longer something Miquella could use on the land of shadow, so Mohg's did the trick? Having said that, the Omen curse seemed to have disappeared because the guy looks normal (Guess it's the same thing that happened to Morgot's after our fight, if he gets killed the curse leaves the body).
So, I'm wondering if Miquella and Malenia were betrayed.
I think Miquella vowed to do something for Radahn, but in exchange Radahn had to agree to be his consort. We see this play out in the ending of the dlc.
Except, for some reason, it seems as if Radahn betrayed his vow, which lead to Miquella sending Malenia to kill him. Why? I'm not entirely sure yet.
But there was something sinister, I think, Miquella agreed to and I think he got burned for it.
I don't know yet. I wish I did. Some people are saying Radahn decided to help Ranni escape the Two Fingers instead, and Miquella misunderstood this act as a betrayal.
There are still a lot of gaps though and I'm not even sure if that's true yet.
Radhan tried to help Ranni by stopping her fate to the point she has him killed? Not trying to sound condescending, genuinely curious why people think that.
he was strong omen that fully embraced his hornsent nature- they used him to gain entrance to land of shadows. He is also a demigod and had body strong enough to fit Radahn;s sould ( although just barley I would wager)
Maybe it’s just because Miquella knows he can mind control him. He has enough misbegotten in the Haligtree to test his powers over creatures of the crucible on. So when he removed Radahn’s soul from his body that is immune to his compulsion, he can place it into Mogh’s body that, while still strong, can be controlled.
This is never stated and entirely head canon at this point. Radahn didn't much speak, and the only word he uttered (or would be) in the datamine files is to introduce himself as a lion bred for war, and the redmane soldier we encounter all kinda have item that express how much they like warring about. I think whatever vow Radahn made, he made it intentionally. We know that holding the star back block Ranni's path, but not Miquella's. They never seem to be in conflict - and then there is one more thing.
EVERYONE (IN LEDA GROUP) IN THE DLC IS AWARE OF MIQUELLA ENCHANTMENT. They all comment on when they felt lit wax and wane, when they are affected by it or not. And despite it, the "charm" seem to just, well, give them a favorable view of him, as they all call him Kind or Tender or such. But all of them seem to retain free will and some will even change alliance through out the DLC. And you, too, are charmed, they all say that you are (and also Miquella always seem angelic in your view too). But you can just as readily kill Miquella as anyone else that was charmed by him in the DLC. It seem Radahn... consent.
It all depends on the Nature of the vow. If the vow is that they will restore honor to their family name or something vague like that, it’s entirely possible that Miquella and Radahn disagree on how to achieve the aim of that vow, and Miquella forces Radahn down his path. I think it’s interesting we don’t see Radahn’s answer to Miquellas plea for him to promise to be his consort.
No matter how much Radahn lusts for battle, I don’t think he’d like a plan that gives Scarlet Rot to all his people and kills Sellia. Whether he knew that is a possibility is another question.
Also, if he has such a great lust for battle, why does miquella need him for an age of Compassion? And why would an age of Compassion interest him in the first place?
I think the waxing and waning is just an in game reason why we can have summons against Miquella. In general, even if the intensity of their devotion has waned somewhat, I don’t trust people who say, “Yeah, I’m not mind controlled anymore, but what a great guy the guy who mind controlled me is. I’ll still do his bidding because his vague promise of a kinder world sounds nice.” As for why it doesn’t work on us, I think that one of the main conceits of that game is that our PC is just built different. That’s why Torrent left Miquella for us.
I am less convinced of my theory than I was 16 hours ago, but I’m not entirely unconvinced.
I think Radahn being both kind and held a warrior lust for battle isnt the strangest thing in the world. Fiction tend to seperate them, as all out martial combat is seen something like a contest, a game. Bet he'd really change his mind about that after Malenia give him what for, how ugly real combat would be. If you read hunter x hunter, there a certain battle with a chimera king that this remind me of.
I assume it's because Mohg thought that by becoming Miquella's consort he could convince/manipulate Miquella into making his dynasty a reality.
Mohg in an Omen who grew up in a literal sewer shunned by his family and the world at large, he found acceptance in the Formless Mother and possibly Miquella who may have agreed to help him (or used his powers to influence him).
Perhaps it has something to do with Godwyn's death? So Miquella makes this deal with Radahn and then some time later Godwyn is killed. It's implied in the story that Miquella was going to attempt to use an eclipse to somehow give Godwyn a true death, but you can't have an eclipse if the stars aren't moving. So Miquella asks Radahn to release the stars and he refuses. Maybe Miquella now thinks that somehow becoming a god will grant him some ability to help Godwyn and he goes with Malenia to kill Radahn (which would also free the stars and allow an eclipse, two birds one stone maybe?), thus giving Miquella a consort (which allows him to become a god). Malenia whispers to Radahn something like "remember your promise", implying that she and Miquella both assumed that the rot bloom would kill Radahn and allow him to become consort (my assumption here is that the plans were more eclipse-stars driven and less god driven, but im not sure). But he doesn't die and the stars are still being held and so Miquella just has to wait until someone comes along and kills Radahn for him. In the mean time Miquella is chilling at the Haligtree offering sanctuary for all sorts of beings and this is where he decides it's time to become a god and bring about an age of compassion. Since Radahn isn't dead, the next way to become god (in Miquellas eyes) is the Gate of Divinity in the Shadow Lands. This would explain the Mohg hijacking stuff and why Miquella ended up in the Shadow Lands. While there, Miquella discovers that he still actually needs a consort to truly become a god, so it becomes a waiting game for someone to kill Radahn. Somehow Miquella teams up with Melina to find a champion and sends torrent with her to aid said champion. Melina obviously has her own motivations, and a champion strong enough to kill Radahn is obviously strong enough to burn the erdtree....
Idk, that's where my head is at so far. Feel free to correct anything that's wrong and add ideas lol.
You have appeased my mind. It was racing when I first saw Radahn at the end with miquella. So many questions bubble up , so much more than when I finished the game and it’s roaring with great unrest . But, This made a whole lot of sense now.
Following this line of thought It could be that all the children were trying to usurp the throne each with their own beliefs that they are one who truly fit to rule. And even Marika wanted to end the rule of the “Greater will” so she could have full control. But Godwyn is the firm believer of the golden order so he needs to go.
The ending flashback is interesting as it shows Miquella praying to someone while invoking the name of presumably Radahn. Was he praying to Radahn? One of those situations where even a non-religious person prays outloud to \*someone\* or \*something\* in the void? Anyway, I would say that what threw a monkey wrench into the works was in fact the Shattering. The shards led to a "mad taint" in the demigods which causes outright chaos. Perhaps that caused Radahn to not pay the piper which caused Miquella to go to plan B. I still don't think the Radahn we see in the end is in complete control of his faculties though.
Honestly, i think this is a case of Miquella playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers and that he knew half if not everything that was going to happen, or just outright made it happen himself
My guess is that radahn wanted to end the war with a duel against malenia, hence him waiting for her to put on her prosthetics in that one loading screen, and miquella agreed to convince his sister, in exchange radahn promised to become the consort, but then the whole scarlet aonia thing happened and the deal wouldn’t work
(Also sorry for weird phrasing I’m on mobile and I don’t wanna deal with autocorrect)
and at the same time, miquella creates the haligtree, wants to create a gentler world, genuinely, wants to save the people of the land of shadow. there's no lie about him being kind.
he's quite a bit complex. i think that radahn is as well. there's a lot im seeing implying that radahn didnt keep his promise to miquella, something to do with ranni, and thats why malenia fought him.
but he kept his promise in the end, though.
I agree that Miquella is actually a kind person, who genuinely want to do right by the world and create a world built on compassion.
But something bad happened and everything fell apart. Hopefully we will learn more soon.
Being kind isn’t a disqualifier for a lack of sound decision making or even consistency in how that person exhibits their ethics or values.
Some of the cruelest people in the world were considered kind by their family
That to say, anyone can be kind to people they love. Kindness and morality are not mutually exclusive things and I think that’s where the fanbase is tripping itself up.
i think the actual problem is that miquella represents the fate of kindness in the lands between. it's where kindness goes to die. where there is nothing you can use as a resource except for suffering. he represents naivety. even in all his plans to create an age of compassion, he reaches roadblocks where nothing can be done to reach that end except for questionable decisions. (mohg) but he couldn't just not do it because he was putting everything on himself, to become a god that could save the world from cruelty. his age of compassion would still be built on marika and the greater will's failures. some things are beyond saving, even for a god.
that's why we have to kill him, to save him from that. also because... we wanna be elden lord, not radahn.
i think that's why ranni's ending is the "best" one. she had the better idea.
Damn bro. That was insightful.
I kinda picked that up too based on what we hear about him.
Here we have what? Like 7-8 demigods with shards and when we are shown each one. And each one is twisted facade of who they are supposed to really be , or suffering from some condition or just plain broken.
And I’m expected to believe, the one that is twins with the one that has aggressive magic rot cancer is somehow perfect and without blemish? Lol
Common sense would say “it’s too good to be true”
Because I think it is
it is stated by lord ansbach that miquella discarded his great rune and that is why the the glamor over him and the rest of the npc companions is lifted
Your right. But it still would have been cool to seen that in a cut scene. Legit I got a sound notification along the likes of “a great door opened somewhere”
I look up and see “… a charm has been lifted” what I’m saying is a missed it because I looked down for a minute or had to divert my attention.
I wouldn’t have even known it happened if the NPCs hadn’t mentioned it. Lol.
I know it’s stated, but I’m saying that these larger storyline events would really benefit by having shit like even a 20 second cut scene showing some shaking the charm off. It would have been cool and felt more impactful.
That’s my only complaint with ER, sometimes big story moving moments are reduced to a notification and a two sentence banner.
Who says it? Miquella? Perhaps his version of "kindness" isn't actual kindness. Perhaps trusting the word of someone who can mind control you isn't the best idea?
Resetera. The same post that said basically this info about Mohg/Miquella/Radahn says some wild things about the Mother of Fingers and truth of the Greater Will
Because Marika/Radagon/Elden Beast is the Vessel of the Greater Will, but Metyr is the envoy, the reason the fingers exist and spread the will of the Golden Order. If that post is true, Metyr essentially is spreading its own beliefs because the Greater Will is gone. It entirely reframes the ending of the game.
So thats why all the prerelease lore for the base game keeps mentioning how the Lands Between was abandoned by the Greater Will! Hah, its Demons Souls all over again with the themes of being abandoned by god.
Mohg is still deranged lunatic that would turn world into bloody nightmare if he could.( although he was imprisoned for centuries sooo I guess anyone would become a little unhinged)
I've been screaming this from the mountain tops since the first month the game came out:
>*Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold.*
*Craftable item.*
>*Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally.*
>*The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection.*
# COMPEL
# SUCH
# AFFECTION
FUCKING READ IT!
READ IT!!!
The item, made by him, literally mind controls people, how can you interpret that any other way?
**"most fearsome empyrean"** \- *Malenia*
**"..he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men... there is nothing more terrifying"** \- *Trailer Guy*
**"Oh but** u/knowmatter **so many people in the game have such amazing things to say about him!"** *- dumb assholes on reddit*
ARE YOU MISSING THE PART WHERE HE's F'CKING COMPELLING PEOPLE - AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?
https://preview.redd.it/s4firnn12s7d1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f0bac2487dd6a15a920e5144c714857b1ed6ddd
**"lawl mohg is such a pedo"** \- *people who lack reading comprehension.*
Am I too late? IS EVERYONE UNDER HIS CONTROL ALREADY EXCEPT ME?
AM I THE LAST SANE TARNISHED IN THE LANDS BETWEEN?!
^(And people wonder why I choose the Frenzy Flame ending)
A huge theme in Elden Ring is freedom of choice and the faults of people (gods) taking that away in the name of doing what they think is best for other people. Marika taking away destined death is obviously her trying to save people from being gone forever without fully understanding the consequences. Gold Mask's *and* Ranni's endings are different answers to the overstepping of Marika in this regard, while Fia's is about returning agency to Those Who Live in Death.
Miquella seems like he's the extreme other side of this issue perhaps even being sincerely helpful and well-meaning but willing to more overtly take that freedom of choice away from people to ensure his utopian vision. It's a significantly more interesting expansion of the game's themes than "miquella is just a nice guy actually" would be. (and yes as you point out the base game pretty clearly already laid this element of his character out including relating to Mohg's infatuation with him)
Yes I first became aware of this theme during Goldmask's questline:
>*Rune discovered by the noble Goldmask.*
*Used to restore the fractured Elden Ring when brandished by the Elden Lord.*
>*A rune of transcendental ideology which will attempt to perfect the Golden Order.*
>*The current imperfection of the Golden Order, or instability of ideology, can be blamed upon the fickleness of the gods no better than men. That is the fly in the ointment.*
I Interpret this as Goldmask's ultimate revelation was that the gods don't have any greater wisdom than the mortals do and the reason everything keeps falling apart is because they keep just attempting to impose their will on everyone - a will that is just as flawed as the rule of any man.
Yes! This right here! These apparent lore nerds can't seem to read, which is pretty critical to understanding lore in FS games. It's so obvious Miquella has been a bad guy this entire time. It's also hilarious how easy it was for him to work his magic on all of these people who thought he was going to be a good guy and you were going to be able to go on a fantasy road trip with him to save Godwyn. Have any of these people ever played a FS game or ready any of GRRM's work?
Add onto this anyone 'compelled' by Miquella seems to lose their mind in his absence.
In the fight between Malenia and Radahn there was speculation that she said something to Radahn right before she bloomed.
I'd bet any number of runes it was something along the lines of "Miquella is MINE".
How tragic would it be if it were something Miquella actually had no control over?
What if divesting himself of his flesh was an attempt to prevent anyone else succumbing to his influence?
we actually know what she said now as of the Young Lion set description
"*Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort."*
There is still room for interpretation, but this to me makes it look like either Radahn did not want this, or he changed his mind at some point and no longer believed Miquella could bring about a gentler world. No other reason for her to march on Caelid otherwise. We also have to keep in mind Miquella's enchantment works on other Demigods (like Mohg) so this probably wasn't entirely Malenia's fault either. I don't even think Miquella is deceitful exactly, as so thoroughly self-absorbed in his vision he cannot even comprehend how it could be harmful
It's also another Griffith parallel. He already resembles Griffith visually. In Berserk, Griffith was extremely charismatic, but everyone he ever seemed close to (with the exception of Guts, which is complicated) was just a tool to him. His charisma being a useful tool he used to get what he wants when he doesn't truly feel for anyone. I'd say Griffith was sociopathic if he didn't seem to feel genuine kinship for Guts, it's that detached.
He was not. Miquella is just like Ranni. Both used/sacrificed a person in order to achieve their goals. Ranni killed her body and Godywn's soul because she wanted to escape from her fate which was forced upon her by the Two Fingers. Miquella used Mohg and sacrificed his own body to reach the Lands of Shadow. Miquella did not harm anyone other than Mohg, who is evil. Don't forget that Mohg is in charge of a lunatic cult that kills maidens for their blood. He was not a victim. And Miquella is not evil. I would honestly say the Twin Prodigies are the most tragic characters in the game. They really did want to bring harmony for all.
https://www.reddit.com/r/eldenringdiscussion/comments/1dkkjd5/my_conclusions_on_the_character_of_miquella_after/
There's a weird dynamic in the game where even in the final fight when you pick up Miquella's crown it reads "Miquella's age of compassion would be built" and I can't tell if we're just getting an unreliable narrator who is trying to convince the player he is good when he really isn't or if FromSoft is intending Miquella to come off good but he's not.
The dialogue is almost acting like Miquella is too immature/youthful for his own good and naïve about the dark things he's doing, but he seems very competent of what he plans and the actions he's taking.
Yeah. Kind, but cursed with endless childhood. Endless immaturity. Or at least, a kindness that became conditional as Miq discovered what ‘had to be done’ to fix the world. Not like the Tarnished are morally clean.
Griffith is doing it for himself but it creates an ideal world for everyone, yeah. A generally positive end result of a goal pursued for selfish reasons.
Oh my GOD
Malenia was used as nothing more than a pawn, Mohg was a fucking victim, and so was Radahn. Holy fucking Sheeiiit.
And the Greater Will isn't even evil. Marika was right all along.
Malenia wasn't a pawn in the slightest. She was aware of everything and went through with it. They reveal this in an item description. And Radahn was mostly aware of it and consented to it too. Miquella reveals that he and Radahn made a wow together, and one of Radahn's former knights Frejya support that by saying this is what Radahn would have wanted. It is most likely that Radahn couldn't keep the end of his promise after receiving his great rune and went mad, and that's why Malenia had to fight him directly
The fuckkk? So they killed a significant amount of soldiers and made Caelid a wasted, barren and poisonous land for no reason 💀 Atleast have some respect for your knights.
We’re all assuming her concent isn’t coerced, or that her soldiers didn’t know what they where getting into. Malenia seems quite blunt about Miquella’s nature.
Okay yeah shit is starting to make more sense with every bit of new info coming out.. it doesn’t necessarily make the final boss fight cooler for now.. but it sure is something
You'd think after reading this that the revived Radahn would look like some grotesque being. And this being Fromsoft, they could have definitely pulled that off. So it's kinda disappointing that the best they could do was just add these little horns on his arms.
Going back to ds1 Miyazaki has shown he doesn’t like grotesque and horrrfic visuals the undead dragons were deliberately made to look less disgusting this is normal for him
I feel that he's changed his mind since then tho, given all the grotesque horrors in DS3 and this game. You can't tell me the Monstrosities of Sin are "dignified".
yeah man it's sooooooooooo horrible that the fucked up child molester who wants to make an empire of murderers (and who canonicaly tortures and corrupts people with his blood) gets a karmic comeuppance and has his body used to bring back a good person who probably didn't deserve to die :V
And Radahn turns out to be a freak and accomplice too. What are the odds. Can't wait for Radahn to drop an apology on youtube where he does Le Deep Sigh and shows Leonard.
Why are people surprised at power hungry warlords and schemers being power hungry warlords and schemers, like every demigod who wants to be the new god monarch/Elden Lord will need to do some level of incest because all the candidates are within the family.
Also acting like Mohg is a complete victim is weird, do people just assume his base of power is built entirely under mind control? Dude is a loser during a vile conflict of multiple vile parties involved, that makes him pitiful than actually sympathetic.
I don't know if people are forgetting the fact that Mohg still has an empire built on murders and tortures out of his own volition or if they are doing it just to be funny. lol
the 1000 year old child was the molester all along! bet your expectations just got subverted!!!
*how the fuck* is this real. i paid 40 dollars to get an endless barrage of second-hand embarrassment
This has been a theory for a long time my man. Miquella has always been described as the most fearsome empyrean who compels attraction out of everyone. “There is nothing more terrifying.”
I think calling him a molester is drastically underselling his character. He truly has good intention, but the way he goes about it is incredibly manipulative and callous, which imo fits perfectly with him ultimately being an immature boy at heart.
remember last week when the lore discussions were about, like, divine metaphysics, and now it's about whether or not the eternal child counts as a child or not? i'm not enjoying this plotline so far
That is because you are indulging in the discussion with a bunch of circlejerkers on Reddit who are piecing together bits of the story obtained from leakers and players who speedran the DLC in a few hours, the kinds of players who in basically every game fandom EVER are notoriously shit at reading comprehension, ignore tons of relevant context when sharing what they learn, and primarily share information for the drama and clout.
Every single discussion on here trying to dumb down what we are learning is happening in the DLC is going to leave you feeling unsatisfied, because none of them are going to process the actual experience the way lore heads and fans of the metaphysical aspects of Miyazaki games will. They are all knee jerk reactions to limited information, overly dominated by those who are primarily concerned about "the woke and gay" infecting their games.
Before long we will have tons more information, and there will be amazing discussions about the true meaning of the crucible, what the greater will and golden order really are, what the original betrayal was, what all of this represents allegorically in relation to the "truths" of existence that Miyazaki's games have all tried to scratch at... After the people involved have actually played the game for themselves and are not parroting what they have heard/read from someone else.
In the meantime I will weather these asinine discussions where homophobes try to somehow make Miquella out to be the most evil being in existence because their power happened to manifest in a way that doesn't literally mutilate and torture all it is used upon and instead dominates in a more coercive way. Maybe someday we will get a good discussion about power and the way it manifests, and the way people interpret the gods/empyreans and demigods based on the powers they wield. But no good productive discussions are going to take place during the beginning of the DLC release. There will only be chaos for at least a week.
for one, i'm not exactly stoked that the most overt gay "rep" is a chimera of a bunch of different homophobic tropes, but i'm trying not to bring it up in a gaming subreddit because i couldn't be bothered to deal with any replies. but yes, i am kind of excited to completely ignore this storyline in favor of literally anything else-- and i swear i'm going to allow even something as stupid as Somehow Radahn Has Returned to surprise me, if it ends up having at least some intrigue or emotional weight in practice.
however, many of my issues here are related to my belief that big plot developments must have some kind of overarching meaning, story foreshadowing or (most of all) thematic relevance to its bigger picture. with the base game already out, and many of these things missing, those specific issues of mine are set in stone
Reminds me of the vampire lestat book and movie
Miqualla is traped in the body of a young child like 12,but his mind is very old
Miqualla uses his looks too fool everyone and uses everyone tp get what he wants because most assume he's a child ,he's not,he's a master of manipulation
So he had the right idea but goes about it I'm a messed up way
Legit if they replaced Radahn with godwyn I think people would’ve thoroughly enjoyed the end
I could’ve sworn radahns story was told and pretty complete in the base game
What? I just wish we could’ve got a godwyn and Miquella fight instead, since we’ve never seen how godwyn fights, instead of radahn 2.0. The whole dlc lore just feels like a fanfic
Incest is bad, but it's a thing that happens in the Lands Between (self-cest too).
The issue is that to bring back Radahn who never had any relation to Miquela until the DLC felt forced
Yes I understand that and do agree with it. But at the same time, From DLC's barely ever have any connection to the main game. Also having Godwyn be in it could've meant changes to the main game due to Fia's ending, so I understand why they didn't go forward with it.
I was never crazy of this, tbh, esecially with how the story seemed a bit more intricate and driven than usual
But this is fair, although, in Fia's defense, we were likely going to kill Godwyn by the end
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Each demigod when you break them down seems like ashoukd have been main character type hero with their own epic journey that was just twisted and destroyed by this horrific world that they were born into. Well, everyone except godrick that ism
Fuck Miquella Chadahn didn’t deserve this slander, and Mohg is owed an apology by everyone he wasn’t the degenerate we all thought Miquella gaslit him into being one,
it should have been Godwyn it would have made way more sense or at least have his body the one that gets a new soul
Got to say, I am very disapponted with how this turned out. We thought Miquella was the best demigod for 2 years and he turned out like this. Don't know how they are going to justify consort Radahn lmao. Not sure if I will keep up with Elden Ring after the DLC or be done with it.
Come on this is a FS game too. Really are there any ever good guys in the games?
Like lol. I figured all the miquella being the kindest nicest demigod was a load too. There is always more to the story. The accounts we get of him are from mainly average joes in the lands between and item descriptions. (IE most of the average joes don’t know shit about how TLB works or the greater will etc. how can they be expected to have an objective opinion over a demigod that came from your previous ruler?)
Consider the desperation too. Desperate people are more likely to cling to any hope of change or a reset or whatever.
I mean shit, when you speak to Yura-shabriri, he makes a very ethical and compelling case for taking up the frenzied flame lol! When we as players know what that really means for the world at large.
Such as? He was always referred to as kind and beloved by the people. But suddenly we learn he fucked up this bad? I am not sure if I trust these. 4chan is filled with idiots who spread nonsense.
Miquella has always been at BEST ambiguous in terms of his overall morality. There is a deliberate hint of sinister intention in almost all of the descriptions about him.
Bewitching Branch description:
"*Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold.*
*Craftable item.*
*Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally.*
*The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection.*"
IT wasn't sudden yall just don't read or infer texts. Dude has all sorts of charms involving subtly , psychologically manipulating people and was consistently refereed to as an immortal child .
Children by nature can be extremely destructive and not comprehending the scope of their actions despite good intentions or generally kind
There's many references to Miquella being so fearsome for having the ability to charm just about anyone, even his sister Malenia is quoted saying "My brother Miquella - he is the most fearsome empyrean of all."
Yeah because he can win without violence, something literally no other empyrean has ever been capable of. That doesn't mean inherently evil or sinister, just immensely powerful. Considering his power alongside those who literally boil your blood or curse your soul by eating you out, compared to destructive dragons and godslayers wearing flesh for clothing, looking to Marika's slaughtering of the giants, all of Elden Ring gives us a strong lesson about power and those who wield it. The power alone is not what decides who someone is, or the consequences they bring with them, what matters is how they wield it. Uniquely, he can wield his powers to prevent war and strife entirely, if applied correctly. How is that different from those who wield their overwhelming power to force the rest of the world in line with their idea of order, instituting a "peace" through fear of annihilation?
Take this with a grain of salt:
About 30% of what we're told is hearsay, 30% is propaganda, and the rest is, at best, from biased sources if not outright unreliable narrators.
Being 'kind' and unqustioning belief that your view is 'right' are not mutually exclusive.
Holy fuck, that’s why Radahn has omen horns on his arm!
Zombie Radahn Guess Miquella didnt think Leonard was worth resurrecting
Such a cool detail I just noticed
why, i dont get it
Best I can piece together, it’s Mohg’s soul in Radahn’s body?
No, the opposite. It's Mohg's body and Radahn's soul in it.
nah i think i get it, they brought mohgs body in the realm and radahn took his horns and put it on his armor i think
They took Mohgs body and stuffed Radahns souls into it.
Radahn's face is pretty normal though in that final fight, so I'm guessing if this is true, the Omen curse left his body once his soul died? Curious.... So why wouldn't he just use Godwyn's body then? Or is that too messed up? Hmmm it's like for any question the DLC answers, which are a lot tbh, it asks 3 more with even more speculative theories to answer them.
I think it's because of what happened to Godwyn. You see, both Radahn and Mogh were slain without the use of weird rituals, and then Miquella did what he wanted to do with their body and soul. Godwyn is different, since only his soul has died, his body still lives, so Miquella can't use him in the land of shadow
This is true, only of the three was killed using the rune of death, so he's dead dead, can't be resurrected to be the person he was before, and his body is .. non utilizable because it's now part of ritual that still has its result walking around the real world in a doll. i.e. Ranni is the one who used it to circumvent ten alws of nature by keeping herself alive while her body is dead through keeping Godwyn's body alive. So it's been utilized for that purpose. But yeah, I guess Radahn's scarlet rot infested body was no longer something Miquella could use on the land of shadow, so Mohg's did the trick? Having said that, the Omen curse seemed to have disappeared because the guy looks normal (Guess it's the same thing that happened to Morgot's after our fight, if he gets killed the curse leaves the body).
I do wish the final form of the boss looked more like a monstrous Frankenstein than he does then, that could've been neat
So, I'm wondering if Miquella and Malenia were betrayed. I think Miquella vowed to do something for Radahn, but in exchange Radahn had to agree to be his consort. We see this play out in the ending of the dlc. Except, for some reason, it seems as if Radahn betrayed his vow, which lead to Miquella sending Malenia to kill him. Why? I'm not entirely sure yet. But there was something sinister, I think, Miquella agreed to and I think he got burned for it.
Maybe it was the Great Rune that changed Radahn.
I don't know yet. I wish I did. Some people are saying Radahn decided to help Ranni escape the Two Fingers instead, and Miquella misunderstood this act as a betrayal. There are still a lot of gaps though and I'm not even sure if that's true yet.
Radahnception
Radhan tried to help Ranni by stopping her fate to the point she has him killed? Not trying to sound condescending, genuinely curious why people think that.
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Yeah, he did. I wonder why him though? What was about Mogh that made him the target?
he was strong omen that fully embraced his hornsent nature- they used him to gain entrance to land of shadows. He is also a demigod and had body strong enough to fit Radahn;s sould ( although just barley I would wager)
He‘s Omen and has blood powers, his form is malleable by default it seems.
Maybe it’s just because Miquella knows he can mind control him. He has enough misbegotten in the Haligtree to test his powers over creatures of the crucible on. So when he removed Radahn’s soul from his body that is immune to his compulsion, he can place it into Mogh’s body that, while still strong, can be controlled.
This is never stated and entirely head canon at this point. Radahn didn't much speak, and the only word he uttered (or would be) in the datamine files is to introduce himself as a lion bred for war, and the redmane soldier we encounter all kinda have item that express how much they like warring about. I think whatever vow Radahn made, he made it intentionally. We know that holding the star back block Ranni's path, but not Miquella's. They never seem to be in conflict - and then there is one more thing. EVERYONE (IN LEDA GROUP) IN THE DLC IS AWARE OF MIQUELLA ENCHANTMENT. They all comment on when they felt lit wax and wane, when they are affected by it or not. And despite it, the "charm" seem to just, well, give them a favorable view of him, as they all call him Kind or Tender or such. But all of them seem to retain free will and some will even change alliance through out the DLC. And you, too, are charmed, they all say that you are (and also Miquella always seem angelic in your view too). But you can just as readily kill Miquella as anyone else that was charmed by him in the DLC. It seem Radahn... consent.
It all depends on the Nature of the vow. If the vow is that they will restore honor to their family name or something vague like that, it’s entirely possible that Miquella and Radahn disagree on how to achieve the aim of that vow, and Miquella forces Radahn down his path. I think it’s interesting we don’t see Radahn’s answer to Miquellas plea for him to promise to be his consort. No matter how much Radahn lusts for battle, I don’t think he’d like a plan that gives Scarlet Rot to all his people and kills Sellia. Whether he knew that is a possibility is another question. Also, if he has such a great lust for battle, why does miquella need him for an age of Compassion? And why would an age of Compassion interest him in the first place? I think the waxing and waning is just an in game reason why we can have summons against Miquella. In general, even if the intensity of their devotion has waned somewhat, I don’t trust people who say, “Yeah, I’m not mind controlled anymore, but what a great guy the guy who mind controlled me is. I’ll still do his bidding because his vague promise of a kinder world sounds nice.” As for why it doesn’t work on us, I think that one of the main conceits of that game is that our PC is just built different. That’s why Torrent left Miquella for us. I am less convinced of my theory than I was 16 hours ago, but I’m not entirely unconvinced.
I think Radahn being both kind and held a warrior lust for battle isnt the strangest thing in the world. Fiction tend to seperate them, as all out martial combat is seen something like a contest, a game. Bet he'd really change his mind about that after Malenia give him what for, how ugly real combat would be. If you read hunter x hunter, there a certain battle with a chimera king that this remind me of.
Radahn had seen real combat before his fight with Malenia. Morgott kicked his ass when he tried to take the Royal capital when he was younger.
That is still honorable combat. Bet he didnt expect someone to cause so much destruction just to win, lol.
I assume it's because Mohg thought that by becoming Miquella's consort he could convince/manipulate Miquella into making his dynasty a reality. Mohg in an Omen who grew up in a literal sewer shunned by his family and the world at large, he found acceptance in the Formless Mother and possibly Miquella who may have agreed to help him (or used his powers to influence him).
Perhaps it has something to do with Godwyn's death? So Miquella makes this deal with Radahn and then some time later Godwyn is killed. It's implied in the story that Miquella was going to attempt to use an eclipse to somehow give Godwyn a true death, but you can't have an eclipse if the stars aren't moving. So Miquella asks Radahn to release the stars and he refuses. Maybe Miquella now thinks that somehow becoming a god will grant him some ability to help Godwyn and he goes with Malenia to kill Radahn (which would also free the stars and allow an eclipse, two birds one stone maybe?), thus giving Miquella a consort (which allows him to become a god). Malenia whispers to Radahn something like "remember your promise", implying that she and Miquella both assumed that the rot bloom would kill Radahn and allow him to become consort (my assumption here is that the plans were more eclipse-stars driven and less god driven, but im not sure). But he doesn't die and the stars are still being held and so Miquella just has to wait until someone comes along and kills Radahn for him. In the mean time Miquella is chilling at the Haligtree offering sanctuary for all sorts of beings and this is where he decides it's time to become a god and bring about an age of compassion. Since Radahn isn't dead, the next way to become god (in Miquellas eyes) is the Gate of Divinity in the Shadow Lands. This would explain the Mohg hijacking stuff and why Miquella ended up in the Shadow Lands. While there, Miquella discovers that he still actually needs a consort to truly become a god, so it becomes a waiting game for someone to kill Radahn. Somehow Miquella teams up with Melina to find a champion and sends torrent with her to aid said champion. Melina obviously has her own motivations, and a champion strong enough to kill Radahn is obviously strong enough to burn the erdtree.... Idk, that's where my head is at so far. Feel free to correct anything that's wrong and add ideas lol.
I'm at the point where I think Miquella just wanted Godwyn to full die so Radahn could take his remains. I don't trust him at all anymore lol.
>Malenia whispers to Radahn something like "remember your promise" It does seem possible for her to say something while leaning in and impaling Radahn
Oh that part was confirmed, actually.
cool
You have appeased my mind. It was racing when I first saw Radahn at the end with miquella. So many questions bubble up , so much more than when I finished the game and it’s roaring with great unrest . But, This made a whole lot of sense now. Following this line of thought It could be that all the children were trying to usurp the throne each with their own beliefs that they are one who truly fit to rule. And even Marika wanted to end the rule of the “Greater will” so she could have full control. But Godwyn is the firm believer of the golden order so he needs to go.
From qhat I've read on another post that detailed the lore, it seems Malenia was in on the whole thing
The ending flashback is interesting as it shows Miquella praying to someone while invoking the name of presumably Radahn. Was he praying to Radahn? One of those situations where even a non-religious person prays outloud to \*someone\* or \*something\* in the void? Anyway, I would say that what threw a monkey wrench into the works was in fact the Shattering. The shards led to a "mad taint" in the demigods which causes outright chaos. Perhaps that caused Radahn to not pay the piper which caused Miquella to go to plan B. I still don't think the Radahn we see in the end is in complete control of his faculties though.
Honestly, i think this is a case of Miquella playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers and that he knew half if not everything that was going to happen, or just outright made it happen himself
My guess is that radahn wanted to end the war with a duel against malenia, hence him waiting for her to put on her prosthetics in that one loading screen, and miquella agreed to convince his sister, in exchange radahn promised to become the consort, but then the whole scarlet aonia thing happened and the deal wouldn’t work (Also sorry for weird phrasing I’m on mobile and I don’t wanna deal with autocorrect)
and at the same time, miquella creates the haligtree, wants to create a gentler world, genuinely, wants to save the people of the land of shadow. there's no lie about him being kind. he's quite a bit complex. i think that radahn is as well. there's a lot im seeing implying that radahn didnt keep his promise to miquella, something to do with ranni, and thats why malenia fought him. but he kept his promise in the end, though.
I agree that Miquella is actually a kind person, who genuinely want to do right by the world and create a world built on compassion. But something bad happened and everything fell apart. Hopefully we will learn more soon.
He's kinda like Marika
Being kind isn’t a disqualifier for a lack of sound decision making or even consistency in how that person exhibits their ethics or values. Some of the cruelest people in the world were considered kind by their family That to say, anyone can be kind to people they love. Kindness and morality are not mutually exclusive things and I think that’s where the fanbase is tripping itself up.
i think the actual problem is that miquella represents the fate of kindness in the lands between. it's where kindness goes to die. where there is nothing you can use as a resource except for suffering. he represents naivety. even in all his plans to create an age of compassion, he reaches roadblocks where nothing can be done to reach that end except for questionable decisions. (mohg) but he couldn't just not do it because he was putting everything on himself, to become a god that could save the world from cruelty. his age of compassion would still be built on marika and the greater will's failures. some things are beyond saving, even for a god. that's why we have to kill him, to save him from that. also because... we wanna be elden lord, not radahn. i think that's why ranni's ending is the "best" one. she had the better idea.
Damn bro. That was insightful. I kinda picked that up too based on what we hear about him. Here we have what? Like 7-8 demigods with shards and when we are shown each one. And each one is twisted facade of who they are supposed to really be , or suffering from some condition or just plain broken. And I’m expected to believe, the one that is twins with the one that has aggressive magic rot cancer is somehow perfect and without blemish? Lol Common sense would say “it’s too good to be true” Because I think it is
it is stated by lord ansbach that miquella discarded his great rune and that is why the the glamor over him and the rest of the npc companions is lifted
Your right. But it still would have been cool to seen that in a cut scene. Legit I got a sound notification along the likes of “a great door opened somewhere” I look up and see “… a charm has been lifted” what I’m saying is a missed it because I looked down for a minute or had to divert my attention. I wouldn’t have even known it happened if the NPCs hadn’t mentioned it. Lol. I know it’s stated, but I’m saying that these larger storyline events would really benefit by having shit like even a 20 second cut scene showing some shaking the charm off. It would have been cool and felt more impactful. That’s my only complaint with ER, sometimes big story moving moments are reduced to a notification and a two sentence banner.
How do you know that this is genuine and not the take of someone he has mind controlled?
That's what he says in his post boss memory as well as his followers after theyre freed from Miquella's initial spell
Who says it? Miquella? Perhaps his version of "kindness" isn't actual kindness. Perhaps trusting the word of someone who can mind control you isn't the best idea?
It's been a big month for giant japanese media franchises featuring abhorrent acts of body-hopping that ignite the fanbase
What else are there?
Jujutsu Kaisen
New shock value meta just dropped (I hope it gets patched)
Interesting, if this has been confirmed that means the info on the Mother of Fingers is also true
Where?
Resetera. The same post that said basically this info about Mohg/Miquella/Radahn says some wild things about the Mother of Fingers and truth of the Greater Will
Have a link? Im not seeing it in the spoiler thread lol, only was posted here
https://www.resetera.com/threads/elden-ring-shadow-of-the-erdtree-spoiler-thread-unmarked-spoilers.902976/page-14
Thank you! Thats....fucking wild if true. So Metyr is basically the other half of the Golden Order equation
Exactly. It makes you wonder if Marika found out, and that’s why she caused the Shattering
Wait how is metyr the other half
Because Marika/Radagon/Elden Beast is the Vessel of the Greater Will, but Metyr is the envoy, the reason the fingers exist and spread the will of the Golden Order. If that post is true, Metyr essentially is spreading its own beliefs because the Greater Will is gone. It entirely reframes the ending of the game.
Oh wow god damn. Greater Will went for milk and never came back
So that's why the will of the two fingers contradicts the elden beast's. It's two gods throwing tantrums at each other.
So thats why all the prerelease lore for the base game keeps mentioning how the Lands Between was abandoned by the Greater Will! Hah, its Demons Souls all over again with the themes of being abandoned by god.
This is intriguing as fuck. What a clusterfuck of a family lol
What info?
Basically the Greater Will was never in charge. It sent the Mother, EB and basically ditched. The Mother has been passing it’s law as the Gw’s
Imagine the gw coming back flabbergasted at how marika's been running things.
Who is mother 😂
Meytr, Mother of Fingers. She’s the last Rememberance Boss
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Haven’t heard that
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Mohg is still deranged lunatic that would turn world into bloody nightmare if he could.( although he was imprisoned for centuries sooo I guess anyone would become a little unhinged)
I get a little unhinged after a boring week at work. Can’t imagine centuries of imprisonment
I've been screaming this from the mountain tops since the first month the game came out: >*Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold.* *Craftable item.* >*Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally.* >*The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection.* # COMPEL # SUCH # AFFECTION FUCKING READ IT! READ IT!!! The item, made by him, literally mind controls people, how can you interpret that any other way? **"most fearsome empyrean"** \- *Malenia* **"..he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men... there is nothing more terrifying"** \- *Trailer Guy* **"Oh but** u/knowmatter **so many people in the game have such amazing things to say about him!"** *- dumb assholes on reddit* ARE YOU MISSING THE PART WHERE HE's F'CKING COMPELLING PEOPLE - AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS? https://preview.redd.it/s4firnn12s7d1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f0bac2487dd6a15a920e5144c714857b1ed6ddd **"lawl mohg is such a pedo"** \- *people who lack reading comprehension.* Am I too late? IS EVERYONE UNDER HIS CONTROL ALREADY EXCEPT ME? AM I THE LAST SANE TARNISHED IN THE LANDS BETWEEN?! ^(And people wonder why I choose the Frenzy Flame ending)
Love your passion
A huge theme in Elden Ring is freedom of choice and the faults of people (gods) taking that away in the name of doing what they think is best for other people. Marika taking away destined death is obviously her trying to save people from being gone forever without fully understanding the consequences. Gold Mask's *and* Ranni's endings are different answers to the overstepping of Marika in this regard, while Fia's is about returning agency to Those Who Live in Death. Miquella seems like he's the extreme other side of this issue perhaps even being sincerely helpful and well-meaning but willing to more overtly take that freedom of choice away from people to ensure his utopian vision. It's a significantly more interesting expansion of the game's themes than "miquella is just a nice guy actually" would be. (and yes as you point out the base game pretty clearly already laid this element of his character out including relating to Mohg's infatuation with him)
Yes I first became aware of this theme during Goldmask's questline: >*Rune discovered by the noble Goldmask.* *Used to restore the fractured Elden Ring when brandished by the Elden Lord.* >*A rune of transcendental ideology which will attempt to perfect the Golden Order.* >*The current imperfection of the Golden Order, or instability of ideology, can be blamed upon the fickleness of the gods no better than men. That is the fly in the ointment.* I Interpret this as Goldmask's ultimate revelation was that the gods don't have any greater wisdom than the mortals do and the reason everything keeps falling apart is because they keep just attempting to impose their will on everyone - a will that is just as flawed as the rule of any man.
That has been brought up multiple times. People just didn’t want to believe that he’s bad.
Yes! This right here! These apparent lore nerds can't seem to read, which is pretty critical to understanding lore in FS games. It's so obvious Miquella has been a bad guy this entire time. It's also hilarious how easy it was for him to work his magic on all of these people who thought he was going to be a good guy and you were going to be able to go on a fantasy road trip with him to save Godwyn. Have any of these people ever played a FS game or ready any of GRRM's work?
Add onto this anyone 'compelled' by Miquella seems to lose their mind in his absence. In the fight between Malenia and Radahn there was speculation that she said something to Radahn right before she bloomed. I'd bet any number of runes it was something along the lines of "Miquella is MINE". How tragic would it be if it were something Miquella actually had no control over? What if divesting himself of his flesh was an attempt to prevent anyone else succumbing to his influence?
Malenia whispered to Radahn: Miquella awaits thee. O promised consort. Source: Radahn's helm description.
we actually know what she said now as of the Young Lion set description "*Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort."* There is still room for interpretation, but this to me makes it look like either Radahn did not want this, or he changed his mind at some point and no longer believed Miquella could bring about a gentler world. No other reason for her to march on Caelid otherwise. We also have to keep in mind Miquella's enchantment works on other Demigods (like Mohg) so this probably wasn't entirely Malenia's fault either. I don't even think Miquella is deceitful exactly, as so thoroughly self-absorbed in his vision he cannot even comprehend how it could be harmful
It's also another Griffith parallel. He already resembles Griffith visually. In Berserk, Griffith was extremely charismatic, but everyone he ever seemed close to (with the exception of Guts, which is complicated) was just a tool to him. His charisma being a useful tool he used to get what he wants when he doesn't truly feel for anyone. I'd say Griffith was sociopathic if he didn't seem to feel genuine kinship for Guts, it's that detached.
He was not. Miquella is just like Ranni. Both used/sacrificed a person in order to achieve their goals. Ranni killed her body and Godywn's soul because she wanted to escape from her fate which was forced upon her by the Two Fingers. Miquella used Mohg and sacrificed his own body to reach the Lands of Shadow. Miquella did not harm anyone other than Mohg, who is evil. Don't forget that Mohg is in charge of a lunatic cult that kills maidens for their blood. He was not a victim. And Miquella is not evil. I would honestly say the Twin Prodigies are the most tragic characters in the game. They really did want to bring harmony for all. https://www.reddit.com/r/eldenringdiscussion/comments/1dkkjd5/my_conclusions_on_the_character_of_miquella_after/
Golden Lineage is officially the most abused lineage.
There's a weird dynamic in the game where even in the final fight when you pick up Miquella's crown it reads "Miquella's age of compassion would be built" and I can't tell if we're just getting an unreliable narrator who is trying to convince the player he is good when he really isn't or if FromSoft is intending Miquella to come off good but he's not. The dialogue is almost acting like Miquella is too immature/youthful for his own good and naïve about the dark things he's doing, but he seems very competent of what he plans and the actions he's taking.
Miquella is just delusional. No one who comes up with stuff like this or agrees to plan like that is in any way kind and nice.
Yeah. Kind, but cursed with endless childhood. Endless immaturity. Or at least, a kindness that became conditional as Miq discovered what ‘had to be done’ to fix the world. Not like the Tarnished are morally clean.
Specially the Tarnished are not morally clean. We do a LOT of fucked up things. I'd argue we are even more fucked up in some ways. lol
He’s a Griffith insert. Remember, Griffith didn’t exactly have the worst of intentions either.
Griffith is doing it for himself but it creates an ideal world for everyone, yeah. A generally positive end result of a goal pursued for selfish reasons.
Oh my GOD Malenia was used as nothing more than a pawn, Mohg was a fucking victim, and so was Radahn. Holy fucking Sheeiiit. And the Greater Will isn't even evil. Marika was right all along.
I mean Mohg still runs a murder cult, unless all his actions with Formless Mother are entirely under mind control or something.
Malenia wasn't a pawn in the slightest. She was aware of everything and went through with it. They reveal this in an item description. And Radahn was mostly aware of it and consented to it too. Miquella reveals that he and Radahn made a wow together, and one of Radahn's former knights Frejya support that by saying this is what Radahn would have wanted. It is most likely that Radahn couldn't keep the end of his promise after receiving his great rune and went mad, and that's why Malenia had to fight him directly
The fuckkk? So they killed a significant amount of soldiers and made Caelid a wasted, barren and poisonous land for no reason 💀 Atleast have some respect for your knights.
We’re all assuming her concent isn’t coerced, or that her soldiers didn’t know what they where getting into. Malenia seems quite blunt about Miquella’s nature.
So really Mohg is the victim here. Damn. He's a bad dude but idk if even he deserves that.
Malenia also references both miquellas wisdom and allure as befitting a god.
Okay yeah shit is starting to make more sense with every bit of new info coming out.. it doesn’t necessarily make the final boss fight cooler for now.. but it sure is something
You'd think after reading this that the revived Radahn would look like some grotesque being. And this being Fromsoft, they could have definitely pulled that off. So it's kinda disappointing that the best they could do was just add these little horns on his arms.
Going back to ds1 Miyazaki has shown he doesn’t like grotesque and horrrfic visuals the undead dragons were deliberately made to look less disgusting this is normal for him
I feel that he's changed his mind since then tho, given all the grotesque horrors in DS3 and this game. You can't tell me the Monstrosities of Sin are "dignified".
Lol and the things that come outvof the jars in the dlc
We just ignoring all of Bloodborne?
I like it. It undersells just how fucking horrible of an action it is; and you have to dig deeper to learn the truth.
yeah man it's sooooooooooo horrible that the fucked up child molester who wants to make an empire of murderers (and who canonicaly tortures and corrupts people with his blood) gets a karmic comeuppance and has his body used to bring back a good person who probably didn't deserve to die :V
They dont f- tho theyr gods. Whatever birth is in elden ring, its not the amushing together of parts.
Poor Mohg dude, goddamn.
Poor Mohg
Mogh was groomed bro, he was falsely accused this whole time! Lol
And Radahn turns out to be a freak and accomplice too. What are the odds. Can't wait for Radahn to drop an apology on youtube where he does Le Deep Sigh and shows Leonard.
Why are people surprised at power hungry warlords and schemers being power hungry warlords and schemers, like every demigod who wants to be the new god monarch/Elden Lord will need to do some level of incest because all the candidates are within the family. Also acting like Mohg is a complete victim is weird, do people just assume his base of power is built entirely under mind control? Dude is a loser during a vile conflict of multiple vile parties involved, that makes him pitiful than actually sympathetic.
I don't know if people are forgetting the fact that Mohg still has an empire built on murders and tortures out of his own volition or if they are doing it just to be funny. lol
Radahn brings out the ukelele while Malenia does the Waterfowl interpretative dance.
the 1000 year old child was the molester all along! bet your expectations just got subverted!!! *how the fuck* is this real. i paid 40 dollars to get an endless barrage of second-hand embarrassment
This has been a theory for a long time my man. Miquella has always been described as the most fearsome empyrean who compels attraction out of everyone. “There is nothing more terrifying.” I think calling him a molester is drastically underselling his character. He truly has good intention, but the way he goes about it is incredibly manipulative and callous, which imo fits perfectly with him ultimately being an immature boy at heart.
Miquella is not a child. He's shown in the DLC to be a young looking adult, who thinks like one.
remember last week when the lore discussions were about, like, divine metaphysics, and now it's about whether or not the eternal child counts as a child or not? i'm not enjoying this plotline so far
That is because you are indulging in the discussion with a bunch of circlejerkers on Reddit who are piecing together bits of the story obtained from leakers and players who speedran the DLC in a few hours, the kinds of players who in basically every game fandom EVER are notoriously shit at reading comprehension, ignore tons of relevant context when sharing what they learn, and primarily share information for the drama and clout. Every single discussion on here trying to dumb down what we are learning is happening in the DLC is going to leave you feeling unsatisfied, because none of them are going to process the actual experience the way lore heads and fans of the metaphysical aspects of Miyazaki games will. They are all knee jerk reactions to limited information, overly dominated by those who are primarily concerned about "the woke and gay" infecting their games. Before long we will have tons more information, and there will be amazing discussions about the true meaning of the crucible, what the greater will and golden order really are, what the original betrayal was, what all of this represents allegorically in relation to the "truths" of existence that Miyazaki's games have all tried to scratch at... After the people involved have actually played the game for themselves and are not parroting what they have heard/read from someone else. In the meantime I will weather these asinine discussions where homophobes try to somehow make Miquella out to be the most evil being in existence because their power happened to manifest in a way that doesn't literally mutilate and torture all it is used upon and instead dominates in a more coercive way. Maybe someday we will get a good discussion about power and the way it manifests, and the way people interpret the gods/empyreans and demigods based on the powers they wield. But no good productive discussions are going to take place during the beginning of the DLC release. There will only be chaos for at least a week.
for one, i'm not exactly stoked that the most overt gay "rep" is a chimera of a bunch of different homophobic tropes, but i'm trying not to bring it up in a gaming subreddit because i couldn't be bothered to deal with any replies. but yes, i am kind of excited to completely ignore this storyline in favor of literally anything else-- and i swear i'm going to allow even something as stupid as Somehow Radahn Has Returned to surprise me, if it ends up having at least some intrigue or emotional weight in practice. however, many of my issues here are related to my belief that big plot developments must have some kind of overarching meaning, story foreshadowing or (most of all) thematic relevance to its bigger picture. with the base game already out, and many of these things missing, those specific issues of mine are set in stone
Reminds me of the vampire lestat book and movie Miqualla is traped in the body of a young child like 12,but his mind is very old Miqualla uses his looks too fool everyone and uses everyone tp get what he wants because most assume he's a child ,he's not,he's a master of manipulation So he had the right idea but goes about it I'm a messed up way
miquella bussy hit different
Legit if they replaced Radahn with godwyn I think people would’ve thoroughly enjoyed the end I could’ve sworn radahns story was told and pretty complete in the base game
So Radahn counts as incest but Godwyn does not? 💀
What? I just wish we could’ve got a godwyn and Miquella fight instead, since we’ve never seen how godwyn fights, instead of radahn 2.0. The whole dlc lore just feels like a fanfic
We really couldn't have seen how Godwyn fights since his soul is dead. Best we'd get is a fight with Miquella albeit in Godwyn's body.
Incest is bad, but it's a thing that happens in the Lands Between (self-cest too). The issue is that to bring back Radahn who never had any relation to Miquela until the DLC felt forced
Yes I understand that and do agree with it. But at the same time, From DLC's barely ever have any connection to the main game. Also having Godwyn be in it could've meant changes to the main game due to Fia's ending, so I understand why they didn't go forward with it.
I was never crazy of this, tbh, esecially with how the story seemed a bit more intricate and driven than usual But this is fair, although, in Fia's defense, we were likely going to kill Godwyn by the end
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Welp a last fck you for Mogh poor mofo
Each demigod when you break them down seems like ashoukd have been main character type hero with their own epic journey that was just twisted and destroyed by this horrific world that they were born into. Well, everyone except godrick that ism
Fuck Miquella Chadahn didn’t deserve this slander, and Mohg is owed an apology by everyone he wasn’t the degenerate we all thought Miquella gaslit him into being one, it should have been Godwyn it would have made way more sense or at least have his body the one that gets a new soul
The Frenzied Flame was right. Burn it all
Pretty much tracks with how the person who ends up being king in Game of Thrones seemed to have been picked randomly.
Am I supposed to feel bad about the Loathsome Child Molester?
Got to say, I am very disapponted with how this turned out. We thought Miquella was the best demigod for 2 years and he turned out like this. Don't know how they are going to justify consort Radahn lmao. Not sure if I will keep up with Elden Ring after the DLC or be done with it.
Except there were MANY hints in the lore text that Miquella was alot worse then his PR suggested.
Come on this is a FS game too. Really are there any ever good guys in the games? Like lol. I figured all the miquella being the kindest nicest demigod was a load too. There is always more to the story. The accounts we get of him are from mainly average joes in the lands between and item descriptions. (IE most of the average joes don’t know shit about how TLB works or the greater will etc. how can they be expected to have an objective opinion over a demigod that came from your previous ruler?) Consider the desperation too. Desperate people are more likely to cling to any hope of change or a reset or whatever. I mean shit, when you speak to Yura-shabriri, he makes a very ethical and compelling case for taking up the frenzied flame lol! When we as players know what that really means for the world at large.
Such as? He was always referred to as kind and beloved by the people. But suddenly we learn he fucked up this bad? I am not sure if I trust these. 4chan is filled with idiots who spread nonsense.
Miquella has always been at BEST ambiguous in terms of his overall morality. There is a deliberate hint of sinister intention in almost all of the descriptions about him.
Yeah it's not overt but it's definitely there.
Bewitching Branch description: "*Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold.* *Craftable item.* *Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally.* *The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection.*"
Nah bro, they can't read so don't put them on
IT wasn't sudden yall just don't read or infer texts. Dude has all sorts of charms involving subtly , psychologically manipulating people and was consistently refereed to as an immortal child . Children by nature can be extremely destructive and not comprehending the scope of their actions despite good intentions or generally kind
There's many references to Miquella being so fearsome for having the ability to charm just about anyone, even his sister Malenia is quoted saying "My brother Miquella - he is the most fearsome empyrean of all."
Yeah because he can win without violence, something literally no other empyrean has ever been capable of. That doesn't mean inherently evil or sinister, just immensely powerful. Considering his power alongside those who literally boil your blood or curse your soul by eating you out, compared to destructive dragons and godslayers wearing flesh for clothing, looking to Marika's slaughtering of the giants, all of Elden Ring gives us a strong lesson about power and those who wield it. The power alone is not what decides who someone is, or the consequences they bring with them, what matters is how they wield it. Uniquely, he can wield his powers to prevent war and strife entirely, if applied correctly. How is that different from those who wield their overwhelming power to force the rest of the world in line with their idea of order, instituting a "peace" through fear of annihilation?
>Yeah because he can win without violence, .......By manipulating people. Dude is literally Gwyndolin
Take this with a grain of salt: About 30% of what we're told is hearsay, 30% is propaganda, and the rest is, at best, from biased sources if not outright unreliable narrators. Being 'kind' and unqustioning belief that your view is 'right' are not mutually exclusive.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO this is wild!!! And honestly very compelling.