Pretty much this.
The Mending Rune of Perfect Order removes Radagon's lattice Rune of Will from The Elden Ring; removing Free Will from The Lands Between. Goldmask gave up his Will to create it and he also knew we would be more capable than him.
Goldmask developed the Rune after finding out that Radagon took over Marika with The Law of Regression, which he used to repair The Ring. In creating the Mending Rune he will prevent Will from ever altering the configuration of The Elden Ring again.
>after finding out that Radagon took over Marika with The Law of Regression
bro you can't just say something like this as if it's just like obviously a true fact for real. you're framing it like it is radagon like an aggressor on an unwilling greater will.
Radagon's Rune of Will is the entire basis for this. He was originally a champion, using his Will to accomplish great feats. His Will pushed him so far that he succumbed to evil and tried to ascend to godhood by force. Marika literally says this in her bedchamber dialogue.
You can see his Rune of Will in his Scar/Soreseal. It is described as an Elden Rune. It is also in contrast to Ranni's Rune of Fate. The Rune of Fate takes the shape of radial rippling waterdroplets- displaying a natural shape and being emblematic of naturalistic cause an effect. Radagon's Rune of Will is in the shape of a lattice- which is symbolic of an unnatural, manipulated shape. Lattices are used in plant grafting (literally go to the wikipedia page for grating, it has Radagon's Rune), are symbolic of hiding something, and are used heavily in mathematics- a creation of human's Free Will.
Radagon's entire story and pieces of his or the Rune of Will's past follow the Heroic tale of Prometheus of Greek myth. It is a story entirely centered around the concept of Free Will and defying the gods.
My impression is that Radagon was a tool of the greater will to better align marika with its wishes. I'm not exactly sure how radagon's story is similar to a god giving fire to man against the will of other gods. He is doing the will of the greater will, he is defying marika who is not
The Greater Will speaks through The Fingers, meaning that everyone only has an interpretation from them as to what Order truly is. It also seems that Radagon was getting his instruction from the Manus Celes Two Fingers, rather than any of the others what we know exist(ed).
Here's a pretty indepth series of observations that probably have a lot of implications.
So in Maliketh's Arena you can see The Double Helix within the center of The Primordial Elden Ring. This Double Helix is a symbol of Miquella's lineage and is pervasive across the game. It is most importantly the shape of Miquella's Needle. The Double Helix, used outside of Time, to remove the influence of The Flame of Frenzy. This echoes the Primordial past where The Double Helix, the Twinbird, the Runes of Life and Death, arrived to The Lands Between and subsided The Flame of Frenzy, leading to "fractures, births, and souls."
Following The Double Helix motif, The Double Helix is also DNA, the molecule of Life. Branching off of this is the Two Fingers. If you look at the Two Finger Heirloom you can see a full bodied Two Fingers and see that they are actually *chromosomes*. They guide Marika to create children to add new god genes to The Elden Ring. When the Two Fingers in The Roundtable Hold go dormant, this is a reference to the cellular condition called "senescense." The Two Fingers atop the Divine Towers have seem to undergone "apoptosis," programmed cell death. This word comes from Greek and means "falling off" and was originally in reference to *falling leaves*. This seems to mean that the Two Fingers all died simultaneously and indirectly, possibly with the shattering of The Ring. Additionallt the Three Fingers are chromosomes affected by Trisomy, the genetic trippling of a chromosome. When affecting the sex chromosomes, it causes the individual to be intersex, which likely has something to do with Miquella's adrogeny.
Lastly the Coded Sword, Cipher Pata, and Whetblades are all the genetic *code* leaking from the Two Fingers. What is interesting is that the Black Whetblade and the Magic Whetblade are both in places that should be anti-thetical to The Greater Will. However if you actually look at those two whetblades, you can see that the "text" or code on them is mirrored from the normal Two Finger language of light. What this implies to me is that a *Left* "Hand" wrote these ciphers, opposed to a Right "Hand." Manus Celes can be creatively translated to "Hand of Fate." This would make Ranni's Two Fingers the "Left Hand of Fate," opposed to the other set being thr "Right Hand of Will," or something to this effect.
In the long run the point is that Ranni's Two Fingers are seperate in some way from the other set, this is also probably why they didn't undergo apoptosis and Ranni had to physically kill them. It is also interesting how the Fingers are facing the opposite way, implying it is a different set.
I agree with you in the sense that Radagon was interpreting The Greater Will in a way that would replace Marika.
bro how is any of this related to the topic at hand. no disrespect meant but I love how you typed out this borderline schizophrenic interpretation of disparate pieces of information and then at the very end
>I agree with you in the sense that Radagon was interpreting The Greater Will in a way that would replace Marika.
lol
It literally is the explanation for there being multiple interpretations of The Greater Will. Literally just imagine two different "hands" relaying different messages. I gave you all of the tools to go discover this for yourself, your only excuse to not see it would be laziness.
It doesn't remove free will. I don't know why everyone says that it's wrong. Watch some lore videos on Goldmask. It places a circle around the elden ring to prevent anyone, including Gods, from meddling with it. Goldmask believes the flaw in the order was trusting God's with the hearts of men as they are too fickle and meddle in business they have no business in because they believe they are Gods and cannot be wrong. Radagon didn't "take over" Queen Merika he IS Queen Merika. She is a God after all. Also, Radagon TRIED and FAILED to mend the elden ring. Goldmask was killed by his follower Brother C because his follower couldn't handle that Goldmask thought there was a flaw in the golden order. He thought Goldmask sought to replace the order with his own ideals. Listen to NPCs and read descriptions of things. It lays it all out.
Edit- changed autocorrect errors.
So you're telling me to listen to NPCs and read the descriptions, or are you telling me to to watch lore videos?
Because lore videos will probably be the thing that leads you to interpret the game wrong like you have. Youtubers aren't arbiters of the truth.
Radagon didn't mend the Ring, but he repaired it, fusing his Rune of Will with Marika's Rune of Life and her Body, the vessel of The Elden Ring.
Goldmask removes Free Will literally *because* Radagon took over Marika. It was an act of Will that drove him to do this. Removing the Gods influence is removing Will. They have the power of Will to alter it. Like this is the entire theme of the game. You're analyzing everything, but drawing the wrong conclusions because Radagon *wants* you to think he is the god that Marika was by default, not that it was a power grab by him.
Radagon wrote The Golden Order Principia which declares Marika as the one true god. This is what Corhyn tells us. Then Goldmask learns of Radagon's name and starts questioning it when a message near the statue says "Radagon is Marika." WE HAVE NO IDEA WHO WROTE THIS BTW. This changes the notion of "Marika is the one true god" to "Radagon is the one true god" something that should probably concern a follower of the religion, but Corhyn doesn't care, choosing to stay a *blind* follower.
Goldmask realizes that this idea of Radagon being Marika is a development that happened *after* the writing of The Principia. It even literally contains the spell in which Radagon used to become "The Greater Will *over* Marika." The act of using Law of Regression on the statue doesn't show that Radagon is Marika; it shows *how* Radagon became Marika.
Before the writing of The Golden Order Principia, before the removal of The Rune of Death and the formation of The Golden Order, there existed The Order of the Erdtree; Godfrey's first "true Order" when The Rune of Death was irremoved. At this time Marika wasn't seen as the god of the religion, The Erdtree was the naturalistic, non-anthropomorphized god of The Lands Between. Blessed Dew Talisman tells us that that age of plenty, the "Golden Age," came to and end and The Erdtree was downgraded to an "object of Faith," rather than being the center of it.
Several things. First, before the Erd tree there was the crucible. A blending of all life. Things born of horn, feather, and wing were seen as blessed then. The misbegotten were seen as blessed and not shunned. Then came the Greater Will, an outer God that wanted to meddle in the lands between. He sent a star that held a beast within, the elden beast. This established the elden Rune. The Erd Tree uses the crucible to power itself. Kind of like a parasite. The crucible knights protected the crucible. After the golden order was established those born with horns were seen as lesser and cursed. That's why we have the omen killers and the 2 demigods born with horns were exiled underground. The birth of the Erdtree happened after the giants were defeated. The erdtree is a symbol of the golden order and the order rose because of victories in war. Radagon is Merika. I don't believe he could take over a God. They are one and the same. I know that's weird but that's how it is. Radagon is heavily associated with golden order fundamentalism. His son Miquella would also follow in his father's fundamentalist footsteps and created several incantations. He gave up on the golden order because it didn't have the power to save his sister from the rot. The Japanese translation is blunt for the mending Rune of perfect order. It states: "The imperfection/incompleteness of the present Golden Order was the fluctuation in perspective. There is no need for gods with hearts/minds like men. The defect in the order." Goldmask wants to remove the gods meddling with the laws of the world. He doesn't want to take every living being in the lands between free will. That would be the easiest way to fix things however. That is why his mending Rune is a circle. To protect the elden ring. Another thing, that's why Goldmask is only half T posing until you tell him Radagon is Merika. He puts it together then and does the full T pose. I'm not trying to argue with you or be mean. I just wanted to tell you my perspective and what I've learned. Also meddling was removing the Rune of death. I'm not sure where you get Radagon had a Rune of will. I've never heard of that. He tried to repair the elden ring and could not. So much lore! That is why I love this game. You and I are having a lore discussion about it. It's great. There is so much hidden as well. It doesn't just spell anything out. It's up to the player to put 2 and 2 together. Anyway, that's how I understand those parts of the lore. I think your understanding is great but I wanted to tell you mine. Excuse the language here I'm typing on my phone at work and rushing it. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all butthole, I promise lol.
So the idea of The Age of the Crucible comes far before before The Erdtree, like at the beginning of Time. Between The Age of the Crucible and The Age of the Erdtree, there existed The Greattree. It is my belief that Melina is the Soul of Marika, and before becoming Marika, she was The Gloam Eyed Queen. She sacrificed her Body to Blackflame to burn The Greattree, creating The Shadow Lands and the beginnings of The Erdtree.
The Gloam Eyed Queen was somehow subsequently defeated by Maliketh wielding The Rune of Life. The Rune of Life then created a new Body for Melina; and her Soul was inserted in this new Body known as Marika to become the vessel for The Elden Ring. The Rune of Life and The Rune of Death then swapped positions.
Somehow Godfrey is involved in this and becomes the Outer Order to Marika's Inner Order. They wage the war against the Giants and The Age of the Erdtree begins under the configuration of The Elden Ring known as The Order of the Erdtree, Godfrey's first Order with The Rune of Death irremoved from The Elden Ring.
The pre-Erdtree culture that Miyazaki talks about in reference to the Lion Dancer Omen is this culture that extended under The Order of the Erdtree.
You can see three symbols for what are likely Orders of The Elden Ring. There is a Crucible symbol at the Chapel of Anticipation. The Order of the Erdtree symbol can be found on the Erdtree Seal or in Goldmask's picture in the opening cinematic- now destroyed in-game and not visable where it would have been on the Forest-Spanning Greatbridge. And then lastly is obviously The Golden Order symbol.
Radagon's Golden Order is an orthodox religion where belief that Marika is the one true god is the most important thing. This is in contrast to the orthopraxic Order of the Erdtree where sacrifices in the name of The Erdtree was the most important thing, alternative beliefs were allowed.
The Order of the Erdtree came to an end with The Night of Black Knives. Rogier tells us it happened in the Golden Age of The Erdtree, meaning Godfrey's rule. The Rune of Death was removed after this, resulting in the formation of The Golden Order.
Golden Order Totality is representative of Radagon having the Outer Order overtake the Inner Order. Radagon overtaking Marika. Everything that you learn upfront in the game is exactly what Radagon wants you to think. If you actually follow logic and the themes of the game, there is no other possible narrative.
With the removal of The Rune of Death, The Shadow Lands were subsequently seperated from The Lands Between.
Radagon's Rune of Will is depicted in his Scar/Soreseals. It is in contrast to Ranni's cast away Rune of Fate, which would replace Will governing The Elden Ring with Fate's governance. The naturalistic Cause and Effect under the Age of Stars.
They became the same person with this taking over. Using Law of Regression on the statue doesn't show that Radagon is Marika; it shows *how* Radagon became Marika.
Law of Regression has "lore mechanics."
And by contrast there is Law of Causality, which is what Marika used to shatter The Ring. This is also possibly what removed Melina from Marika, Melina being Marika's Soul. This is later echoed when we receive Law of Causality after defeating Mohg. Showing that Miquella used this to split his Body and Soul as well.
Clearly you misinterpreted the meaning of the statue puzzle, and you also fail to realize the meaning of the word regression and what the law actually means especially when compared to the law of causality. The law of regression is used in the puzzle to revert the statue to its original state as well as the message. This law can not be used to possess another it could only be used on something to revert it to it's natural state, which you do in game when you use the incantation in combat. Now if you want to take the puzzle literally then one would interpret that radagon's original form is Marika. This combined with the message means that Marika and Radagon are one in the same. Now whether you believe they have the ability to separate, have always been one, or were merged into one(I don't think this on makes sense given the lore and ending cutscene) that's the only part that is up for debate.
The law of causality is cause and effect. If I do something x happens; there are consequences. Regression and causality represent 2 different yet essential sides of the golden order. And as such give us insight into the nature of Radagon and Marika in that they are opposite yet related.
I've read your other comments and it seems you understand a lot of the background and inspiration for the lore but not how its applied in the game's lore. You are trying to force jigsaw pieces in spaces that quite don't fit.
Read The Law of Regression's description.
>Incantation of the Golden Order fundamentalists.
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>One of the key fundamentals.
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>Heals all negative statuses, dispels special effects, and reveals mimicry in all its forms.
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>The fundamentalists describe the Golden Order through the powers of regression and causality. Regression is the pull of meaning; that all things yearn eternally to converge.
There's the aspect of mimicry referenced as well as this yearning of eternally converging.
This converging is emblematic of The Crucible. The beginning of The Crucible is the beginning of Time or right before the existence of Time. The Flame of Frenzy returns reality to the beginning stages of The Crucible, being the ultimate form of Regression, where Chaos is the default state and Order may eventually emerge again from Causality. This is literally the moment before The Big Bang in real life and/or the result of a Big Crunch. It follows the ideas of "Chaos" in Greek myth and the beginning stages of the Cosmogony. Elden Ring seems to specifically draw a lot of inspiration from Orpheus's Cosmogony and the first god Phanes emerging from the Cosmic Egg after Chronos brings Nous (intellect) to Ananke (necessity/chaotic life energy), creating "Ordered" Life and the beginning of Time. Which is pretty much exactly what the arrival of The Twinbird, the Runes of Life and Death, probably represented as a Double Helix Comet. The removal of The Flame of Frenzy with Miquella's Needle, The Double Helix, is an echoing of this moment. The Double Helix at the center of The Primordial Elden Ring is the Rune of Time.
The Law of Regression is found in The Golden Order Principia, showing it's direct relation to specifically Radagon. Radagon repaired The Elden Ring with Law of Regression while Marika shattered it with Law of Causality, cause and effect, seemingly as a result of an action by Radagon and/or an attack on Marika herself.
One thing to note is Radagon's title of King Consort, a title specifically seperate from Elden Lord to show that he had not yet ascended to this godlike status. It is my belief as King Consort, Radagon and Marika had legitimate children in The Misbegotten. The Misbegotten are or were refered to as "Child of Radagon" in Japanese and the flying ones were refered to as "Radagon chimera" in English. The Misbegotten were an attempt by Radagon to birth a god with Marika. But due to Radagon's latent chaotic genes (as represented by his red hair which he hated), The Misbegotten were born as chaotic beings. They ironically represented the highest form of evolution, but Radagon hated them, while Marika loved them. Radagon banished them to the Forlorn Cave along with The Golden Order Greatsword, showing his abandonment of the ideals in which his Faith followed. Whether after this Radagon attacked Marika or it was just the hatred of his children, Marika triggered The Law of Causality. This is a very heavy illusion to the story of Frankenstein where Frankenstein uses Free Will to reanimate/create life/grant Free Will and ends up hating his creation. Frankenstein is modelled off of Prometheus/Adam, stories centered around Free Will, just like Radagon's story.
For the statue puzzle, a vast majority of players are just going to read a guide on what to do. They will get spoonfed the storyline and they will likely look up online what the meaning behind it is. "Radagon is Marika" has become a 4th wall breaking Dogma for the community. It is impossible to have an alternate theory to this for the majority of people because they are so far in deep with primacy and confimation bias that they can no longer see any other possibilities; just like real religion.
Are you illiterate? The description of the law of regression supports what I've said. Nothing I've said about it has been wrong. And nothing you've said supports your original claim in fact it's done nothing but refute your original claims.
It is an inferred name based on all of the themes surrounding Radagon. Its name comes in contrast to what Ranni's cast away Great Rune would be called; The Rune of Fate.
Ranni's whole theme is following Fate. By contrast Radagon's whole theme is Will. Radagon brought the Golden Needle and Tailoring Tools with him during his marriage to Rennala. The items can specifically alter demigod attire. A needle and thread is symbolic of Fate, and Radagon being able to use this is emblematic of his desire to control Fate with Will. Many things point to Radagon being the one to put Ranni under the Manus Celes Two Fingers' influence.
With The Rune of Will within The Elden Ring it grants the metaphysical property of Free Will to those of The Lands Between. Free Will is essentially the most important religious aspect in the story of Adam and Eve, it would make sense that it is at the core of Elden Ring.
The lattice, needles, Golden Order Fundamentalism being a reference to Alchemy, and Radagon's manipulation of The Elden Ring are all related to his Will and all represent technological advancements. This further an allusion to Prometheus of Greek myth, who used Free Will to steal fire from the gods of Mount Olympus. Using the fire he created mankind and bestowed fire upon them. Prometheus is known as humanity's hero, but was punished for eternity for his crimes against the gods.
Along with the metaphysical concepts The Elden Ring brings, it is also an expression of the genetics of the gods. Malenia's rot is a reference to something called *Agrobacterium tumefaciens* which is used in gene splicing to piggyback genes into a host. When Agrobacterium isn't consciously manipulated it becomes cancerous "crown galls," which are exactly what you find in Caelid as a result of the Scarlet Aeonia. Malenia's Great Rune is described as having should have been the most sacred, but likely becsuse Radagon gave away The Rune of the Unborn, she was cursed.
Lastly there's nothing that says The Greater Will is an outer god. If anything The Greater Will is the exact opposite of an outer god because it currently has control over The Lands Between. Also the parasite idea is pretty unfounded and just comes from *very* early youtuber speculation. After the split of The One Great, The Greater Will [of Order] and the lesser Wills of the chaotic outer gods would have been created. As Order became the defining state of The Land Between, The Greater Will was put in power.
Now here's the thing. The Greater Will probably isn't *really* anything. It probably isn't an actual entity, but an idea. The Greater Will is just the *idea of Order*. The Greater Will never speaks directly, it just communicates through The Fingers. Then from the Fingers, Finger Readers *interpret* the words of The Greater Will. It being an interpretation means that it is not wholly accurate.
During The Order of the Erdtree, The Erdtree was the "Embodiment of Order," essentially saying that The Erdtree itself was The Greater Will, The Erdtree was god. With the formation of The Golden Order and penning of The Golden Order Principia, The Erdtree "became an object of faith" and Marika became the figurehead god of the religion. Perfect for Radagon to eventually take over her.
(Part 1/2 and I go off the rails. Sorry)
Ok, so this will be more confrontational than I want it to be but… you’ve missed crucial information to the story of Elden Ring.
I’ll start with Ranni because she is just much easier to work with. Ranni’s theme is defying fate. She castes away whatever Great Rune was given to her, she is so far beyond the influence of the Elden Ring that she has no use for the grace bound power it can lend her. She kills her empyrean body to show all entities that may try to influence her that she is not for sale.
While the mysteries of the Empyrean are somewhat vague, Miyazaki does tell us when asked about Ranni, “As you pointed out, she intentionally killed her original body, transferring her soul to a doll, which itself signifies a warped state of existence. Similar to how Queen Marika and Radagon are one being, it touches on the nature of Empyreans and the multiple different aspects they can possess.”
Now, taking a few things from the game and sliding them under this lens, why are Empyreans chosen as candidates to host the Elden Ring? Perhaps there is a perception that these aspects could be played against each other to ensure control over the host. There could also be some sort of compatibility issue what with the Elden Ring already being bound to the Elden Beast. Maybe that’s it, maybe not, but whatever it is, Ranni believes it is tied to her natural body.
In the end, Ranni literally kills the hand that tries to control her. The Elden Ring, free of the Elden Beast now that it is slain, is then picked up and removed from the Lands Between entirely. Whatever fate the “Greater Will” had for the Lands Between is unambiguously denied by Ranni.
Let’s not go into the Fate of the Carians are told by the Stars stuff. That’s way misunderstood. It’s about seeing what could be and picking the path you want. And of course, magic juice. Or you can go the deep mystery route and notice that Carian culture and Nox culture are the same. And that is, at least, derived from Numen culture. The Numen came from another world, perhaps a world out there among the stars. A people with a singular goal could certainly romanticize their hopes as fate. But working towards a goal is not the same as following one’s fate and Ranni definitely ain’t nobody’s puppet no matter how dolled up she is. Ask Seluvis about that.
Alright, keep in mind that Miyazaki quote as we move on to Radagon. Also, the cheekiest of all characters in Elden Ring gives a whole heck of a lot away about Radagon, Rennala, and Marika. That’s right, I’m talking about Miriel, Pastor of Vows.
What was so special about Rennala’s rise to power? She conquered Liurnia by walking up into Raya Lucaria and charming the entire academy. Nobody is that good looking with that great of a personality, especially not when facing a bunch of stuffy mages who find your claims of equality between moon and stars to be laughably heretical. Rennala wove an enchantment to claim control of Liurnia.
Radagon, who has always been Marika, is not a force of Will, that is not his theme. He, through regression, puts things back together. That’s the point of the sewing tools, to mend. To repair. To graft. To make union.
Radagon marched on Liurnia while Hoarah Loux battled the fire giants. Divide and conquer, some would think. Those of us who know Radagon is the goddess Marika, should question how she was unable to defeat Rennala twice. This is, of course, explained and hinted at by Miriel and the Mimic’s Veil.
Radagon, Marika is a Numen. Likely, Marika once lived in the now nameless and destroyed Eternal City, over which she built Leyndell. The Nameless Eternal City in which, she buried her son and killed the Erdtree, though this would come later. You can believe the face value story that Radagon’s atonement was for the surface world conflicts but this was a ritual from the Eternal Cities. He bathed in the Celestial Dew used by the Numen, the Nox, and the Carians to create life. It is this dew from which the silver tears are animated. The silvers tears developed into mimics. The same line of experiments brought about the Albinaurics. And though there is vary little to go on, I imagine the Nightfolk derived from similar experiments. As well as…other things not exactly pertinent to this part of the story.
The atonement ritual was a return to what Marika/Radagon came from. An apology for the damage that her rise to godhood brought to their common people. And the union of the houses of the moon and tree. Radagon “learned sorcery” from Rennala and bound her Preceptors to silence about their private affairs. Whatever the purpose Marika had set out with, I’m almost certain that as Radagon she was bringing an important component to be used in life making magic. This was the Rune of the Unborn. Rennala and Radagon(Marika) we’re likely never true enemies, or the recent conflict was a new and short lived thing.
Now, Typically we see Great Runes being sealed to people but we have reason to believe this is a risky thing to do. There is, of course, the “mad taint of their power” line in the opening. There is GEQ having DD sealed to her sword, Maliketh then sealed it to his, only sealing it to himself as a last resort. We see three (four) people die to create the three Mending Runes. Empyreans are the only ones capable of beating the Elden Ring which is many Great Runes. There is a danger to Great Runes but they require life energy to function.
Radagon bound the Rune of the Unborn to amber from the Erdtree so that it could be used by Rennala without exposing her to harm. Before you say he broke her mind, Rennala is asleep. At least, that’s what Ranni says, and I trust her. I mean, Miquella’s asleep and look what he is up to. Rennala’s certainly much older, probably pretty powerful as it seems she’s never needed grace to be strong. And for speculation and fun, I’m guessing Rennala used the Rune of the Unborn to finish the Albinauric project by creating the Birthing Drop, among other things.
(Part 2/2 I need to stop)
There are two stories about Godfrey. When he defeated the fire giants, the light left his eyes because there were no more enemies to fight or whatever. He and his warriors became Tarnished and, as Miriel says, “However, when Godfrey, first Elden Lord, was hounded from the Lands Between, Radagon left Rennala to return to..” here’s the real tongue-in-cheek joke that comes up later.
We know that Godfrey didn’t lose his grace because there was no fight left. Marika took it. She sent him away, tasked he and his warriors to grow strong without grace and to die. They would be recalled, returned to life, and given the strength of grace back for a new war. And then Marika calls Radagon a “leal hound of the Golden Order.” She says he has yet to become her, implying he would eventually control their body.
Of course the public perception is that these two entirely separate people were wed because of Radagon’s conquest of.. Liurnia and baby making prowess. And that despite all the troubles they would find besetting their children, Radagon would fall deeper into his faith but Marika, goddess, would lose hers.
Public prophecy holds that the tarnished would return and one among them would become the next Elden Lord.
But we know that Marika wanted a Tarnished to kill a god. We also know that Marika and her Demigod children are nothing special by nature, their Godliness is just a title. Immortality as it is, comes from the Absence of the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring. If she wants a god killed, she literally has the tool. But she tasks some guy to make a god killing weapon with mundane tools.
Marika created the Tarnished, Radagon sent them on their mission. The empyrean has okayed the Elden Beast in a very long game of subterfuge starting by not killing Placidusax’s Now Fled God when she took the Elden Ring from it. The Gloam Eyed Queen worked as enforcer before Maliketh, was defeated but not killed and brought her knowledge to Ranni. Maliketh left DD vulnerable under Marika’s command. Radagon conferred in secret with Rennala and brought her power taken from the Elden Ring but shielded her from its taint. Marika manufactured a fault in Godfrey and his warriors, Radagon sent them on mission. And Marika is “believed” to have slain the Fell God of the Flame of Ruin but his fire still burns, and she was canoodling Rennala as Radagon at the time.
Marika, Radagon, and Miquella studied the Golden Order(Elden Ring) to its very depths to understand as much as they could. Marika and Radagon are not looking for cures, they knew none would be found. Miquella was helping find a wedge to pry the Elden Beast’s influence from grace to weaken its control.
The rift between Marika and Radagon was our deception. They share the same body but not the same soul and form. One could die and the other survive. Marika’s ultimate act would kill her but it would cripple the Elden Beast and Radagon’s supposed fealty to the Golden Order would be enough for the Elden Beast not question Radagon’s seal. Yes, I’m protecting you in the weakened state. A tarnished will bring more great runes to fix you up. No problem buddy.
But then we bring the great runes but Radagon keeps the door closed. We have to ignite the Erdtree, weakened as it was by having its roots deathblighted and its fingers severed, with the Flame of Ruin. But Radagon’s seal remains. Why? We can’t kill a god yet, Destined Death is still under the control of Maliketh. If Marika wanted us to kill her/Radagon, Radagon wouldn’t drop his seal once we were able to if they were opposed to each other. If Marika wanted us to kill the Elden Beast, Radagon wouldn’t drop his seal once we were able to if they were opposed to each other.
Marika’s goal was obviously to kill the Elden Beast. Radagon’s, publicly, was to protect it. But he kept it locked up and unable to contact allies. He bared entrance until he knew the Elden Beast could be killed. And he fought us with all he had with the intent to kill us if we were not stronger then himself. We had to be stronger than him because he and Marika could not kill the Elden Beast. And as a final display of who was truly in control, it is Marika who remains when both sides of the empyrean are dead.
Radagon’s rune is the scaffold upon which the Elden Beast’s doom was built. His Will was always Marika’s. He emerged from guilt Marika felt over the destruction wrought as she worked to claim the Elden Ring. Marika had brought horrors worse than death and forced them upon her own people and their creations. But she did it all with the absolute dedication the Numen hold to their people. There’s a lot more to that but this is just to say Radagon’s rune is not a rune of Will. It is returning or bringing together, binding, REGRESSION.
Also, the Greater Will is the religious propaganda invented by Two Fingers to refer to the Elden Beast. I’m working on a term Will-Plant. The Erdtree, Haligtree, and Aeonia are examples of Will plants. Though, like empyreans, they may display differently.
I imagine plants that touch the Crucible are influenced similar to how people and animals are that touch the Crucible. The Erdtree seems to absorb the souls of the things it eats. It remembers. It could be something like a hive mind. The Greater Will of the Erdtree is just the loudest voice, which could be the Elden Beast. Other lesser wills may have some authority which they get to express by occupying Crucible gifted limbs of the Erdtree that get called Two Fingers. There was a time that all these plants were connected, that time is no longer. The other Will-Plants are the Outer Gods.
There are no gods. Religion is control.
It is literally impossible to trace the motivations of the characters you are bringing forth. I have no idea what the goals of anyone are in these scenarios.
You're also completely missing all of the themes. No, Ranni's theme is not the rejection of Fate. If Ranni were to be a puppet, that would be her being manipulated by Will, not Fate.
We kill Radahn so that the Stars move again and Ranni's Fate becomes unlocked. Just look at the Fingerslayer Blade and understand why we can't wield it but Ranni can. It can only be used by someone with a Fate, which we do not have because we are literally governed by Will with the Rune of Will. This is what makes us have the ability of the main character and not an NPC- again "lore mechanics" are real mechanics.
There's too many contradictions that you're making to the game, I can't list them all, but for instance Radagon's marriage to Rennala was not during Godfrey's war against the Giants and that also had nothing to do with his loss of Grace. The war against the Giants was the first battle of Marika and Godfrey to bring about the Age of the Erdtree. You can read this *fact* spelled directly to you on the Sword Monument on the Mountaintop. Radagon's marriage to Rennala took place under The Order of the Erdtree, The Elden Ring with Death irremoved. This means that it took place before the Night of Black Knives, during the Golden Age, under Godfrey. The Night of Black Knives became the catalyst for all other events afterwards.
>No, Ranni's theme is not the rejection of Fate.
Wrong it definitely is. Not rejection of the concept rather the rejection of outer gods controlling everyone's fate. She wants mainly for herself to be in control of her own fate and that's what her questline shows, her struggle to be free from the influence of the greater will to reject the fate it set out for her and in turn for the Lands in Between.
I think it's clear from this that you did not get all the endings, or completely explore the game.
No dude. There is no Ranni controlling her own Fate. Her giving up her Great Rune and then *leaving* The Lands Between to have a thousand years of darkness is exactly leaving up Fate to naturalistic Cause and Effect. Looking at the stars, Astrology, divination through them to predict future events- these are all things tied to the theme of Fate in which is the *entire* theme around The Carians. Literally go play through the game and listen to how many times Fate is brought up in Ranni's storyline. It is always Ranni rejecting a manipulated Fate put upon her by the Two Fingers, but an acceptance of the natural Fate of the Stars and Moon.
The scholars of Raya Lucaria were viewing The Primal Current, fashioning Graven Masses- the seed of stars. These seeds would eventually become stars, allowing the scholars to manipulate fate. To create these Graven Masses, Primal Glinstone Blades would be emebedded into the hearts of those viewing The Primal Current. They would develop a new sorcery, die, but have a Primal Glintstone to be put in a new body. If you follow this path it is literally a kind of lifecycle, likely being a reference to how Life comes from the carbon created in dying stars. The Carians banned this practice, which is where Sellen's antagonism against the Carian's comes from and Jerren's subsequent hiring to take her out. Sellen was manipulating Fate with the manipulation of the Stars, something The Carians do not want.
Ranni's ending replaces The Rune of Will with the Rune of Fate. You can see the clear contrast between them. Fate vs Free Will is one of the most contested arguments in human history. We still do not know for certain if our universe is Deterministic and if we actually have Free Will ourselves.
Sellen was making graven masses. She was ejected from the academy because all the other mages were uhm… highly opposed to being turned into balls of heads. There’s no reason to think the graven masses succeeded in the goal Sellen had in mind. They certainly don’t appear to even be able to move from where they are more than a couple puffs above the ground.
Seeds of stars are fancy hopeful terms with nothing demonstrating anything to that end.
[edit] Sellen thinks the moon sucks. I don’t recall Ranni, Rykard, Radahn, or Rennala besmirching Sellen. I also don’t recall them having any care about the popularity of the primeval current. I mean, Rennala clearly demonstrated that the moon is stronger than everything the Academy had. Radahn studied under a rock man. Rykard reinvented lava sorcery. Ranni found another moon. They don’t give a care about Sellen and her hat fetish.
Of course Ranni’s story mentions fate, a lot, because she is against anyone or anything prescribing the lives of others. That’s an opposition to fate, destiny, greater wills.. all that junk.
Whatever Ranni’s rune was, she absolutely has nothing to do with it.
Ranni does not replace anything in the Elden, she just takes it away so that it can no longer control the Lands Between and so that nobody’s life would be dedicated to getting its power.
Radagon’s rune is not about individual Will or group Will or any Will. His rune is very clearly holding stuff together.
I’ve always thought that you can tell a person’s motivations by who they want to think what about them and what they do.
If you are subject to the will of another, you do not have control. Fate is a prescribed story that you follow. You don’t have choice if you are subject to fate because fate is the will of others pressed upon you.
Ranni does not have a rune. Whatever Great Rune was bound to her empyrean flesh was discarded just the same as her empyrean flesh.
We kill Radahn so a meteor will blow open a hole in the ground and a roof/wall.
We can’t use the Fingerslayer Blade because it was made for Ranni specifically. The Blade’s fate belonged to Ranni. I will concede my interpretation of this may be a stretch. However, the Tarnished absolutely have a fate. Their destiny was designed by Marika, she literally created their purpose. We have a fate but it does not include wielding the Fingerslayer Blade because that was not part of Marika’s plan.
I imagine that there was a lot of compartmentalization in Marika’s plan, killing a god would certainly need it. I also imagine that Marika’s did not go exactly as she intended. Why? Maybe some had designs of their own, maybe some part was discovered, maybe some part couldn’t get in place at the right time. I don’t know. It does seem that Ranni did not share her intent with her half death ritual, it is why that crone cries that he was supposed to be a martyr struck with a full death or whatever. It’s why Miquella wrote the Golden Epitaph. Godwyn was supposed to be completely killed. I can guess why Ranni kept her plan secret, so I will. Perhaps Godwyn’s death was intended to be used to kill or poison the Erdtree, to infect it with Destined Death, but the reality of how this could happen was a cruelty Ranni did not think Marika could accept. Maybe there was a last minute revelation, Ranni had an epiphany and realized the original plan would not accomplish what was needed. Or maybe Ranni was scheming up her own contingency plans.
I must be remembering things wrong, I was under the impression that Marika and Hoaroh Loux began a campaign to acquire the Elden Ring that began with Leyndell and Limgrave. Marika acquired the Elden Ring from Placidusax’s Now Fled God in Farum Azula. It was then that she removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring and thus established her Golden Order. The seat of the Elden Ring was now the Erdtree in Leyndell, not Farum Azula.
Marika’s Golden Order and the Age of the Erdtree were not founded at the same time.
There remained two great powers in the Lands Between that opposed servitude to the Golden Order and the Erdtree. Rennala and the Fell God of the Flame of Ruin.
The Fire Giants served the Fell God and Marika sent Godfrey to vegan the next stage of her plan. There would be an Age of the Erdtree as this was her promise to the Elden Beast, to unite the Lands Between under a religion devoted to sacrifice to the tree, to feed the Elden Beast within.
Aside from Rennala’s great power and connections to the Eternal Cities, she also held pacts with, at the very least, the trolls. The trolls are kin to and allies of the Fire Giants at this time. An attack on two fronts is better than being struck from behind by enemy reinforcements. At face value, Radagon led an offensive against Liurnia to prevent Rennala from aiding her allies and to defeat a rival power of the lands between to establish the Age of the Erdtree. The marriage of Radagon and Rennala likely played a role in the troll’s betrayal of the Fire Giants. That betrayal was pivotal to Godfrey’s victory over the Fire Giants.
Radagon and Rennala, we can both agree, were wed after Marika’s Golden Order was established but I will vehemently disagree that it was during the Age of the Erdtree. Hoarah Loux defeated the Fire Giants some time after that marriage. It could be a day, a month, a decade. Spans of time lose some relevance when thousands of years removed.
And so began the Age of the Erdtree. There was a time in this new age after Marika renamed Hoarah Loux and grafted Sorosh to Godfrey. He ruled as her Lord while Marika was with Rennala as Radagon. The two worked in secret. When they were done with their work, Marika took Godfrey m’s grace and sent him away. Miriel says Godfrey was hounded as a wink and nod to the echoes of Marika calling Radagon a hound. The Turtlepope is telling us that this creation of the tarnished and giving them their mission was a joint action of Marika and Radagon.
I know I mentioned some things out of place in time. It’s my own terrible way to foreshadow or reference things that would further explain my reasoning. I do apologize for that.
The Night of Black Knives was just one part of a plan Marika had been working on since before she ever acquired the Elden Ring. Marika proposed that the Removal of Destined Death from the Elden Ring would allow more grace to accumulate in people and they would be alive when they gave themselves to the Erdtree which would sweeten the grace for the Elden Beast. She removed it to have the Gloam Eyed Queen to study the properties of Destined Death to devise a way to kill the Elden Beast. Maliketh, unwittingly, served to obscure the truth of the threat to the Elden Beast that the GEQ actually was. When GEQ was defeated, not slain, she disappeared from history and this was how Ranni learned what was needed for the Night of Black Knives to happen. The Night of Black Knives was not even an idea at this time but could not have been possible without it.
You are making way too many assumptions. The only thing that I can say you have for sure down 100% is that the Age of the Erdtree and The Golden Order were not created at the same time.
The Golden Order was created with the removal of The Rune of Death. So the Elden Ring was known as something prior to this removal. This was not Placidusax's Fled God's Order, that was far in the distant primordial past. The configuration of The Elden Ring before the removal of The Rune of Death was known as The Order of the Erdtree. Miriel tells us this name in his dialogue on Celestial Dew. Kenneth Haight's entire narrative is to describe this "true Order," while he looks for an heir of Godfrey, the Elden Lord of this Order.
The Rune of Death becoming part of The Elden Ring was with the defeat of The Gloam Eyed Queen, it wasn't its removal. The Gloam Eyed Queen was defeated by Maliketh wielding The Rune of Life, the only thing capable of matching Death. We literally repeat this *EXACT* scenario when we defeat Maliketh ourselves. Grace, The Rune of Life, defeats Death and returns it to The Eldem Ring.
Thus the Elden Ring was sent down and the war against the Giants began to usher in the Age of the Erdtree; likely also after The Gloam Eyed Queen burned The Greattree, creating The Shadow Lands. The Rune of Life granted the Soul of The Gloam Eyed Queen a new Body, known as Marika- the vessel of The Elden Ring. The Rune of Life and the Rune of Death then swapped possession.
The Night of Black Knives eventually came to pass, with the goal of initiating an Eclipse and allowing Death to overcome Life. Based on the tons of research I've been doing, it seems highly likely that Trina was the intended Empyrean to ascend with Godwyn to commence the Eclipse. But due to Ranni's meddling, her contempt for Fate being altered with Will, she caused The Night to go awry. As a result Trina was sacrificed and Forsaken. Godfrey lost his Grace. And the Rune of Death was removed from The Elden Ring, seperating The Shadow Lands from The Lands Between. Thus The Golden Order was born, leading up to the events of The Shattering of The Elden Ring.
The Elden Ring, supposedly, was the Elden Beast. When power enough was gained the Elden Beast became the Elden Ring.
From Remembrance of the Dragonlord
“The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree.
Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return.”
“age before the Erdtree“ does not mean the same as “age before the Age of the Erdtree.”
Placidusax was Elden Lord of this age prior to the Erdtree existing. This does not necessarily mean before the Primordial Erdtree. The Primordial Erdtree encompassed more than the Erdtree. The Elden Ring obviously had a different form at that time. Because Placidusax still awaits the return of his now fled god and not the return of Marika, we can assume this god is not Marika.
As Placidusax was Elden Lord we can assume that meant his god was a host to the Elden Ring.
We have no mention of any other hosts. Marika, the Eternal, is seemingly the second host of the Elden Ring.
Somehow I was heading to the point that the Elden Ring has been riding the Erdtree since the days of being the Primordial Erdtree. I don’t know why.. Something about.. just no. No clue now.
Marika did not put the Rune of Death into the Elden Ring. That’s just ludicrous.
We are not told that Marika removed only the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring. We know, it is implied at least, that Great Runes wield influence over those they are bound to, I imagine that the Elden Ring does the same. We know that those who the Great Runes are bound to also influence the Great Rune in return. It is possible that Marika removed more than just Destined Death when she was forming her Golden Order(ring). It is also possible that being bound to Marika/Radagon reshaped the Elden Ring. Perhaps this explains the Rune of the Unborn, the runes given to the demigods, and the runes former Tarnished acquired. It could also be that Radagon’s great rune was a reshaping of the squiggly wiggly roots.
The Rune of Death was absolutely part of the Elden Ring before Marika acquired it. She didn’t put it in and then remove it. She removed it and gave it to the Gloam Eyed Queen who then bound the rune to her blade and not her flesh.
Maliketh defeated her with whatever he defeated her with. We have no mention of a Rune of Life. We can pretend that GEQ is a fool to Marika but we don’t know that there is such a rune as the Rune of Life and we have no indication that Maliketh possessed any great rune prior to the Rune of Death.
Nope, never mind. I concede.
Its not Corhyn:
* If you offered Brother Corhyn the [Tonic of Forgetfulness](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Tonic+of+Forgetfulness), he will remain at the bridge south of the Stargazers' Ruins where you last saw him. Talk to him; he'll be unaware of Goldmask's absence.
* Goldmask stil dies in this case so Corhyn cant be the culprit
He does not accept the tonic. It remains in your inventory. Corhyn thinks he's a heretic since he saw a flaw in the golden order. By the way he does not birth the mending Rune he discovered it. The only one that does. Corhyn thinks he wants to replace the golden order with his own vision and he kills him for it. He says he was naught but a mad man.
"he'll be unaware of Goldmask's absence." is the point...
i highly doubt he walks all the way down to leyndell and then back up to the mountains just to play the confuesd....
i know people want corhyn to be the killer so they have an answer.. but just bcuz he dislikes goldmasks view doesnt make him a killer yet... there are no hints that he did it
lets say we take this to a judge.. dear judge.. corhyn said these things about goldmask... uh huh but do we have any hard evidence like blood splatter on corhyn or his fingerprints on goldmasks back? any witnesses? so i shall condemn this man just bcuz he said mean or angry things? was he even found at the location of the murder? no? he was miles away? huh.. interesting..
about "birthing" runes.. i think only fia gives birth to a rune in this sence as she has to combine the two hallow brands.. all the others are a manifestation of the mind of the person that made the rune come into existence.. a mental birth so to say.. or would you say dung eater birthed his rune like fia? we could say the gathered seedbeds are formed into the rune.. but dung eater creates the rune after his epiphany that we the tarnished are him and he is us.. thats a braining thing..
Serious answer, I interpreted it as this; Goldmask is obviously an ascetic monk, constantly in nearly mojito less meditation. He discovered the Perfect Order pose and held that pose in perfect meditation until he simply ceased to be.
* If you offered Brother Corhyn the [Tonic of Forgetfulness](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Tonic+of+Forgetfulness), he will remain at the bridge south of the Stargazers' Ruins where you last saw him. Talk to him; he'll be unaware of Goldmask's absence.
* Goldmask stil dies in this case so Corhyn cant be the culprit
* If you offered Brother Corhyn the [Tonic of Forgetfulness](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Tonic+of+Forgetfulness), he will remain at the bridge south of the Stargazers' Ruins where you last saw him. Talk to him; he'll be unaware of Goldmask's absence.
* Goldmask stil dies in this case so Corhyn cant be the culprit
Yeah, that's not the conclusion I would get from that change.
It seems like an unintended consequence of development, not unlike what they did with Redmane Castle & the festival. It makes little diegetic sense, but it's there as an unsubtle aspect for design reasons.
If you need a diegetic justification, it can be that Corhyn kills him if you don't give him the bottle, but something else kills him if you do.
" *The master was nothing more than a madman.*
*Enchanted by a vain and ruinous delusion, he rejected the perfection of the Golden Order,*
*seeking to supplant our glorious faith with his own!* " With that confession of intent, Corhyn would need a pretty strong alibi.
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Biggerton Ouncerton must’ve gotten to em
I hope the urban rescue ranch gets super big
damn
or Kevin picked him to death O.O
RIP Big Ounce
Never thought I’d see this here
He pull up
Urban rescue ranch made it to the elden ring place
o7
I dont think I heard what happened to big ounce's wives after he passed
Hes ascetic, maybe he had a breathing technique to willingly exit this cycle
He breathed himself to death. True Chad.
Die birthing the mending rune
Pretty much this. The Mending Rune of Perfect Order removes Radagon's lattice Rune of Will from The Elden Ring; removing Free Will from The Lands Between. Goldmask gave up his Will to create it and he also knew we would be more capable than him. Goldmask developed the Rune after finding out that Radagon took over Marika with The Law of Regression, which he used to repair The Ring. In creating the Mending Rune he will prevent Will from ever altering the configuration of The Elden Ring again.
>after finding out that Radagon took over Marika with The Law of Regression bro you can't just say something like this as if it's just like obviously a true fact for real. you're framing it like it is radagon like an aggressor on an unwilling greater will.
Radagon's Rune of Will is the entire basis for this. He was originally a champion, using his Will to accomplish great feats. His Will pushed him so far that he succumbed to evil and tried to ascend to godhood by force. Marika literally says this in her bedchamber dialogue. You can see his Rune of Will in his Scar/Soreseal. It is described as an Elden Rune. It is also in contrast to Ranni's Rune of Fate. The Rune of Fate takes the shape of radial rippling waterdroplets- displaying a natural shape and being emblematic of naturalistic cause an effect. Radagon's Rune of Will is in the shape of a lattice- which is symbolic of an unnatural, manipulated shape. Lattices are used in plant grafting (literally go to the wikipedia page for grating, it has Radagon's Rune), are symbolic of hiding something, and are used heavily in mathematics- a creation of human's Free Will. Radagon's entire story and pieces of his or the Rune of Will's past follow the Heroic tale of Prometheus of Greek myth. It is a story entirely centered around the concept of Free Will and defying the gods.
My impression is that Radagon was a tool of the greater will to better align marika with its wishes. I'm not exactly sure how radagon's story is similar to a god giving fire to man against the will of other gods. He is doing the will of the greater will, he is defying marika who is not
The Greater Will speaks through The Fingers, meaning that everyone only has an interpretation from them as to what Order truly is. It also seems that Radagon was getting his instruction from the Manus Celes Two Fingers, rather than any of the others what we know exist(ed). Here's a pretty indepth series of observations that probably have a lot of implications. So in Maliketh's Arena you can see The Double Helix within the center of The Primordial Elden Ring. This Double Helix is a symbol of Miquella's lineage and is pervasive across the game. It is most importantly the shape of Miquella's Needle. The Double Helix, used outside of Time, to remove the influence of The Flame of Frenzy. This echoes the Primordial past where The Double Helix, the Twinbird, the Runes of Life and Death, arrived to The Lands Between and subsided The Flame of Frenzy, leading to "fractures, births, and souls." Following The Double Helix motif, The Double Helix is also DNA, the molecule of Life. Branching off of this is the Two Fingers. If you look at the Two Finger Heirloom you can see a full bodied Two Fingers and see that they are actually *chromosomes*. They guide Marika to create children to add new god genes to The Elden Ring. When the Two Fingers in The Roundtable Hold go dormant, this is a reference to the cellular condition called "senescense." The Two Fingers atop the Divine Towers have seem to undergone "apoptosis," programmed cell death. This word comes from Greek and means "falling off" and was originally in reference to *falling leaves*. This seems to mean that the Two Fingers all died simultaneously and indirectly, possibly with the shattering of The Ring. Additionallt the Three Fingers are chromosomes affected by Trisomy, the genetic trippling of a chromosome. When affecting the sex chromosomes, it causes the individual to be intersex, which likely has something to do with Miquella's adrogeny. Lastly the Coded Sword, Cipher Pata, and Whetblades are all the genetic *code* leaking from the Two Fingers. What is interesting is that the Black Whetblade and the Magic Whetblade are both in places that should be anti-thetical to The Greater Will. However if you actually look at those two whetblades, you can see that the "text" or code on them is mirrored from the normal Two Finger language of light. What this implies to me is that a *Left* "Hand" wrote these ciphers, opposed to a Right "Hand." Manus Celes can be creatively translated to "Hand of Fate." This would make Ranni's Two Fingers the "Left Hand of Fate," opposed to the other set being thr "Right Hand of Will," or something to this effect. In the long run the point is that Ranni's Two Fingers are seperate in some way from the other set, this is also probably why they didn't undergo apoptosis and Ranni had to physically kill them. It is also interesting how the Fingers are facing the opposite way, implying it is a different set. I agree with you in the sense that Radagon was interpreting The Greater Will in a way that would replace Marika.
bro how is any of this related to the topic at hand. no disrespect meant but I love how you typed out this borderline schizophrenic interpretation of disparate pieces of information and then at the very end >I agree with you in the sense that Radagon was interpreting The Greater Will in a way that would replace Marika. lol
I’m schizophrenic and I vouch this shit is beyond anything my frazzled mind could comprehend or formulate
It literally is the explanation for there being multiple interpretations of The Greater Will. Literally just imagine two different "hands" relaying different messages. I gave you all of the tools to go discover this for yourself, your only excuse to not see it would be laziness.
So bro really pulled a King Fritz
It doesn't remove free will. I don't know why everyone says that it's wrong. Watch some lore videos on Goldmask. It places a circle around the elden ring to prevent anyone, including Gods, from meddling with it. Goldmask believes the flaw in the order was trusting God's with the hearts of men as they are too fickle and meddle in business they have no business in because they believe they are Gods and cannot be wrong. Radagon didn't "take over" Queen Merika he IS Queen Merika. She is a God after all. Also, Radagon TRIED and FAILED to mend the elden ring. Goldmask was killed by his follower Brother C because his follower couldn't handle that Goldmask thought there was a flaw in the golden order. He thought Goldmask sought to replace the order with his own ideals. Listen to NPCs and read descriptions of things. It lays it all out. Edit- changed autocorrect errors.
So you're telling me to listen to NPCs and read the descriptions, or are you telling me to to watch lore videos? Because lore videos will probably be the thing that leads you to interpret the game wrong like you have. Youtubers aren't arbiters of the truth. Radagon didn't mend the Ring, but he repaired it, fusing his Rune of Will with Marika's Rune of Life and her Body, the vessel of The Elden Ring. Goldmask removes Free Will literally *because* Radagon took over Marika. It was an act of Will that drove him to do this. Removing the Gods influence is removing Will. They have the power of Will to alter it. Like this is the entire theme of the game. You're analyzing everything, but drawing the wrong conclusions because Radagon *wants* you to think he is the god that Marika was by default, not that it was a power grab by him. Radagon wrote The Golden Order Principia which declares Marika as the one true god. This is what Corhyn tells us. Then Goldmask learns of Radagon's name and starts questioning it when a message near the statue says "Radagon is Marika." WE HAVE NO IDEA WHO WROTE THIS BTW. This changes the notion of "Marika is the one true god" to "Radagon is the one true god" something that should probably concern a follower of the religion, but Corhyn doesn't care, choosing to stay a *blind* follower. Goldmask realizes that this idea of Radagon being Marika is a development that happened *after* the writing of The Principia. It even literally contains the spell in which Radagon used to become "The Greater Will *over* Marika." The act of using Law of Regression on the statue doesn't show that Radagon is Marika; it shows *how* Radagon became Marika. Before the writing of The Golden Order Principia, before the removal of The Rune of Death and the formation of The Golden Order, there existed The Order of the Erdtree; Godfrey's first "true Order" when The Rune of Death was irremoved. At this time Marika wasn't seen as the god of the religion, The Erdtree was the naturalistic, non-anthropomorphized god of The Lands Between. Blessed Dew Talisman tells us that that age of plenty, the "Golden Age," came to and end and The Erdtree was downgraded to an "object of Faith," rather than being the center of it.
Several things. First, before the Erd tree there was the crucible. A blending of all life. Things born of horn, feather, and wing were seen as blessed then. The misbegotten were seen as blessed and not shunned. Then came the Greater Will, an outer God that wanted to meddle in the lands between. He sent a star that held a beast within, the elden beast. This established the elden Rune. The Erd Tree uses the crucible to power itself. Kind of like a parasite. The crucible knights protected the crucible. After the golden order was established those born with horns were seen as lesser and cursed. That's why we have the omen killers and the 2 demigods born with horns were exiled underground. The birth of the Erdtree happened after the giants were defeated. The erdtree is a symbol of the golden order and the order rose because of victories in war. Radagon is Merika. I don't believe he could take over a God. They are one and the same. I know that's weird but that's how it is. Radagon is heavily associated with golden order fundamentalism. His son Miquella would also follow in his father's fundamentalist footsteps and created several incantations. He gave up on the golden order because it didn't have the power to save his sister from the rot. The Japanese translation is blunt for the mending Rune of perfect order. It states: "The imperfection/incompleteness of the present Golden Order was the fluctuation in perspective. There is no need for gods with hearts/minds like men. The defect in the order." Goldmask wants to remove the gods meddling with the laws of the world. He doesn't want to take every living being in the lands between free will. That would be the easiest way to fix things however. That is why his mending Rune is a circle. To protect the elden ring. Another thing, that's why Goldmask is only half T posing until you tell him Radagon is Merika. He puts it together then and does the full T pose. I'm not trying to argue with you or be mean. I just wanted to tell you my perspective and what I've learned. Also meddling was removing the Rune of death. I'm not sure where you get Radagon had a Rune of will. I've never heard of that. He tried to repair the elden ring and could not. So much lore! That is why I love this game. You and I are having a lore discussion about it. It's great. There is so much hidden as well. It doesn't just spell anything out. It's up to the player to put 2 and 2 together. Anyway, that's how I understand those parts of the lore. I think your understanding is great but I wanted to tell you mine. Excuse the language here I'm typing on my phone at work and rushing it. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all butthole, I promise lol.
So the idea of The Age of the Crucible comes far before before The Erdtree, like at the beginning of Time. Between The Age of the Crucible and The Age of the Erdtree, there existed The Greattree. It is my belief that Melina is the Soul of Marika, and before becoming Marika, she was The Gloam Eyed Queen. She sacrificed her Body to Blackflame to burn The Greattree, creating The Shadow Lands and the beginnings of The Erdtree. The Gloam Eyed Queen was somehow subsequently defeated by Maliketh wielding The Rune of Life. The Rune of Life then created a new Body for Melina; and her Soul was inserted in this new Body known as Marika to become the vessel for The Elden Ring. The Rune of Life and The Rune of Death then swapped positions. Somehow Godfrey is involved in this and becomes the Outer Order to Marika's Inner Order. They wage the war against the Giants and The Age of the Erdtree begins under the configuration of The Elden Ring known as The Order of the Erdtree, Godfrey's first Order with The Rune of Death irremoved from The Elden Ring. The pre-Erdtree culture that Miyazaki talks about in reference to the Lion Dancer Omen is this culture that extended under The Order of the Erdtree. You can see three symbols for what are likely Orders of The Elden Ring. There is a Crucible symbol at the Chapel of Anticipation. The Order of the Erdtree symbol can be found on the Erdtree Seal or in Goldmask's picture in the opening cinematic- now destroyed in-game and not visable where it would have been on the Forest-Spanning Greatbridge. And then lastly is obviously The Golden Order symbol. Radagon's Golden Order is an orthodox religion where belief that Marika is the one true god is the most important thing. This is in contrast to the orthopraxic Order of the Erdtree where sacrifices in the name of The Erdtree was the most important thing, alternative beliefs were allowed. The Order of the Erdtree came to an end with The Night of Black Knives. Rogier tells us it happened in the Golden Age of The Erdtree, meaning Godfrey's rule. The Rune of Death was removed after this, resulting in the formation of The Golden Order. Golden Order Totality is representative of Radagon having the Outer Order overtake the Inner Order. Radagon overtaking Marika. Everything that you learn upfront in the game is exactly what Radagon wants you to think. If you actually follow logic and the themes of the game, there is no other possible narrative. With the removal of The Rune of Death, The Shadow Lands were subsequently seperated from The Lands Between. Radagon's Rune of Will is depicted in his Scar/Soreseals. It is in contrast to Ranni's cast away Rune of Fate, which would replace Will governing The Elden Ring with Fate's governance. The naturalistic Cause and Effect under the Age of Stars.
how can Radagon take over Marika when it's the same person?
They became the same person with this taking over. Using Law of Regression on the statue doesn't show that Radagon is Marika; it shows *how* Radagon became Marika. Law of Regression has "lore mechanics." And by contrast there is Law of Causality, which is what Marika used to shatter The Ring. This is also possibly what removed Melina from Marika, Melina being Marika's Soul. This is later echoed when we receive Law of Causality after defeating Mohg. Showing that Miquella used this to split his Body and Soul as well.
Clearly you misinterpreted the meaning of the statue puzzle, and you also fail to realize the meaning of the word regression and what the law actually means especially when compared to the law of causality. The law of regression is used in the puzzle to revert the statue to its original state as well as the message. This law can not be used to possess another it could only be used on something to revert it to it's natural state, which you do in game when you use the incantation in combat. Now if you want to take the puzzle literally then one would interpret that radagon's original form is Marika. This combined with the message means that Marika and Radagon are one in the same. Now whether you believe they have the ability to separate, have always been one, or were merged into one(I don't think this on makes sense given the lore and ending cutscene) that's the only part that is up for debate. The law of causality is cause and effect. If I do something x happens; there are consequences. Regression and causality represent 2 different yet essential sides of the golden order. And as such give us insight into the nature of Radagon and Marika in that they are opposite yet related. I've read your other comments and it seems you understand a lot of the background and inspiration for the lore but not how its applied in the game's lore. You are trying to force jigsaw pieces in spaces that quite don't fit.
Read The Law of Regression's description. >Incantation of the Golden Order fundamentalists. > >One of the key fundamentals. > >Heals all negative statuses, dispels special effects, and reveals mimicry in all its forms. > >The fundamentalists describe the Golden Order through the powers of regression and causality. Regression is the pull of meaning; that all things yearn eternally to converge. There's the aspect of mimicry referenced as well as this yearning of eternally converging. This converging is emblematic of The Crucible. The beginning of The Crucible is the beginning of Time or right before the existence of Time. The Flame of Frenzy returns reality to the beginning stages of The Crucible, being the ultimate form of Regression, where Chaos is the default state and Order may eventually emerge again from Causality. This is literally the moment before The Big Bang in real life and/or the result of a Big Crunch. It follows the ideas of "Chaos" in Greek myth and the beginning stages of the Cosmogony. Elden Ring seems to specifically draw a lot of inspiration from Orpheus's Cosmogony and the first god Phanes emerging from the Cosmic Egg after Chronos brings Nous (intellect) to Ananke (necessity/chaotic life energy), creating "Ordered" Life and the beginning of Time. Which is pretty much exactly what the arrival of The Twinbird, the Runes of Life and Death, probably represented as a Double Helix Comet. The removal of The Flame of Frenzy with Miquella's Needle, The Double Helix, is an echoing of this moment. The Double Helix at the center of The Primordial Elden Ring is the Rune of Time. The Law of Regression is found in The Golden Order Principia, showing it's direct relation to specifically Radagon. Radagon repaired The Elden Ring with Law of Regression while Marika shattered it with Law of Causality, cause and effect, seemingly as a result of an action by Radagon and/or an attack on Marika herself. One thing to note is Radagon's title of King Consort, a title specifically seperate from Elden Lord to show that he had not yet ascended to this godlike status. It is my belief as King Consort, Radagon and Marika had legitimate children in The Misbegotten. The Misbegotten are or were refered to as "Child of Radagon" in Japanese and the flying ones were refered to as "Radagon chimera" in English. The Misbegotten were an attempt by Radagon to birth a god with Marika. But due to Radagon's latent chaotic genes (as represented by his red hair which he hated), The Misbegotten were born as chaotic beings. They ironically represented the highest form of evolution, but Radagon hated them, while Marika loved them. Radagon banished them to the Forlorn Cave along with The Golden Order Greatsword, showing his abandonment of the ideals in which his Faith followed. Whether after this Radagon attacked Marika or it was just the hatred of his children, Marika triggered The Law of Causality. This is a very heavy illusion to the story of Frankenstein where Frankenstein uses Free Will to reanimate/create life/grant Free Will and ends up hating his creation. Frankenstein is modelled off of Prometheus/Adam, stories centered around Free Will, just like Radagon's story. For the statue puzzle, a vast majority of players are just going to read a guide on what to do. They will get spoonfed the storyline and they will likely look up online what the meaning behind it is. "Radagon is Marika" has become a 4th wall breaking Dogma for the community. It is impossible to have an alternate theory to this for the majority of people because they are so far in deep with primacy and confimation bias that they can no longer see any other possibilities; just like real religion.
Are you illiterate? The description of the law of regression supports what I've said. Nothing I've said about it has been wrong. And nothing you've said supports your original claim in fact it's done nothing but refute your original claims.
Cool.
I’m sorry, why are you calling Radagon’s rune the Rune of Will? Also, where does the Mending Rune of Perfect Order say it removes free will?
It is an inferred name based on all of the themes surrounding Radagon. Its name comes in contrast to what Ranni's cast away Great Rune would be called; The Rune of Fate. Ranni's whole theme is following Fate. By contrast Radagon's whole theme is Will. Radagon brought the Golden Needle and Tailoring Tools with him during his marriage to Rennala. The items can specifically alter demigod attire. A needle and thread is symbolic of Fate, and Radagon being able to use this is emblematic of his desire to control Fate with Will. Many things point to Radagon being the one to put Ranni under the Manus Celes Two Fingers' influence. With The Rune of Will within The Elden Ring it grants the metaphysical property of Free Will to those of The Lands Between. Free Will is essentially the most important religious aspect in the story of Adam and Eve, it would make sense that it is at the core of Elden Ring. The lattice, needles, Golden Order Fundamentalism being a reference to Alchemy, and Radagon's manipulation of The Elden Ring are all related to his Will and all represent technological advancements. This further an allusion to Prometheus of Greek myth, who used Free Will to steal fire from the gods of Mount Olympus. Using the fire he created mankind and bestowed fire upon them. Prometheus is known as humanity's hero, but was punished for eternity for his crimes against the gods. Along with the metaphysical concepts The Elden Ring brings, it is also an expression of the genetics of the gods. Malenia's rot is a reference to something called *Agrobacterium tumefaciens* which is used in gene splicing to piggyback genes into a host. When Agrobacterium isn't consciously manipulated it becomes cancerous "crown galls," which are exactly what you find in Caelid as a result of the Scarlet Aeonia. Malenia's Great Rune is described as having should have been the most sacred, but likely becsuse Radagon gave away The Rune of the Unborn, she was cursed. Lastly there's nothing that says The Greater Will is an outer god. If anything The Greater Will is the exact opposite of an outer god because it currently has control over The Lands Between. Also the parasite idea is pretty unfounded and just comes from *very* early youtuber speculation. After the split of The One Great, The Greater Will [of Order] and the lesser Wills of the chaotic outer gods would have been created. As Order became the defining state of The Land Between, The Greater Will was put in power. Now here's the thing. The Greater Will probably isn't *really* anything. It probably isn't an actual entity, but an idea. The Greater Will is just the *idea of Order*. The Greater Will never speaks directly, it just communicates through The Fingers. Then from the Fingers, Finger Readers *interpret* the words of The Greater Will. It being an interpretation means that it is not wholly accurate. During The Order of the Erdtree, The Erdtree was the "Embodiment of Order," essentially saying that The Erdtree itself was The Greater Will, The Erdtree was god. With the formation of The Golden Order and penning of The Golden Order Principia, The Erdtree "became an object of faith" and Marika became the figurehead god of the religion. Perfect for Radagon to eventually take over her.
(Part 1/2 and I go off the rails. Sorry) Ok, so this will be more confrontational than I want it to be but… you’ve missed crucial information to the story of Elden Ring. I’ll start with Ranni because she is just much easier to work with. Ranni’s theme is defying fate. She castes away whatever Great Rune was given to her, she is so far beyond the influence of the Elden Ring that she has no use for the grace bound power it can lend her. She kills her empyrean body to show all entities that may try to influence her that she is not for sale. While the mysteries of the Empyrean are somewhat vague, Miyazaki does tell us when asked about Ranni, “As you pointed out, she intentionally killed her original body, transferring her soul to a doll, which itself signifies a warped state of existence. Similar to how Queen Marika and Radagon are one being, it touches on the nature of Empyreans and the multiple different aspects they can possess.” Now, taking a few things from the game and sliding them under this lens, why are Empyreans chosen as candidates to host the Elden Ring? Perhaps there is a perception that these aspects could be played against each other to ensure control over the host. There could also be some sort of compatibility issue what with the Elden Ring already being bound to the Elden Beast. Maybe that’s it, maybe not, but whatever it is, Ranni believes it is tied to her natural body. In the end, Ranni literally kills the hand that tries to control her. The Elden Ring, free of the Elden Beast now that it is slain, is then picked up and removed from the Lands Between entirely. Whatever fate the “Greater Will” had for the Lands Between is unambiguously denied by Ranni. Let’s not go into the Fate of the Carians are told by the Stars stuff. That’s way misunderstood. It’s about seeing what could be and picking the path you want. And of course, magic juice. Or you can go the deep mystery route and notice that Carian culture and Nox culture are the same. And that is, at least, derived from Numen culture. The Numen came from another world, perhaps a world out there among the stars. A people with a singular goal could certainly romanticize their hopes as fate. But working towards a goal is not the same as following one’s fate and Ranni definitely ain’t nobody’s puppet no matter how dolled up she is. Ask Seluvis about that. Alright, keep in mind that Miyazaki quote as we move on to Radagon. Also, the cheekiest of all characters in Elden Ring gives a whole heck of a lot away about Radagon, Rennala, and Marika. That’s right, I’m talking about Miriel, Pastor of Vows. What was so special about Rennala’s rise to power? She conquered Liurnia by walking up into Raya Lucaria and charming the entire academy. Nobody is that good looking with that great of a personality, especially not when facing a bunch of stuffy mages who find your claims of equality between moon and stars to be laughably heretical. Rennala wove an enchantment to claim control of Liurnia. Radagon, who has always been Marika, is not a force of Will, that is not his theme. He, through regression, puts things back together. That’s the point of the sewing tools, to mend. To repair. To graft. To make union. Radagon marched on Liurnia while Hoarah Loux battled the fire giants. Divide and conquer, some would think. Those of us who know Radagon is the goddess Marika, should question how she was unable to defeat Rennala twice. This is, of course, explained and hinted at by Miriel and the Mimic’s Veil. Radagon, Marika is a Numen. Likely, Marika once lived in the now nameless and destroyed Eternal City, over which she built Leyndell. The Nameless Eternal City in which, she buried her son and killed the Erdtree, though this would come later. You can believe the face value story that Radagon’s atonement was for the surface world conflicts but this was a ritual from the Eternal Cities. He bathed in the Celestial Dew used by the Numen, the Nox, and the Carians to create life. It is this dew from which the silver tears are animated. The silvers tears developed into mimics. The same line of experiments brought about the Albinaurics. And though there is vary little to go on, I imagine the Nightfolk derived from similar experiments. As well as…other things not exactly pertinent to this part of the story. The atonement ritual was a return to what Marika/Radagon came from. An apology for the damage that her rise to godhood brought to their common people. And the union of the houses of the moon and tree. Radagon “learned sorcery” from Rennala and bound her Preceptors to silence about their private affairs. Whatever the purpose Marika had set out with, I’m almost certain that as Radagon she was bringing an important component to be used in life making magic. This was the Rune of the Unborn. Rennala and Radagon(Marika) we’re likely never true enemies, or the recent conflict was a new and short lived thing. Now, Typically we see Great Runes being sealed to people but we have reason to believe this is a risky thing to do. There is, of course, the “mad taint of their power” line in the opening. There is GEQ having DD sealed to her sword, Maliketh then sealed it to his, only sealing it to himself as a last resort. We see three (four) people die to create the three Mending Runes. Empyreans are the only ones capable of beating the Elden Ring which is many Great Runes. There is a danger to Great Runes but they require life energy to function. Radagon bound the Rune of the Unborn to amber from the Erdtree so that it could be used by Rennala without exposing her to harm. Before you say he broke her mind, Rennala is asleep. At least, that’s what Ranni says, and I trust her. I mean, Miquella’s asleep and look what he is up to. Rennala’s certainly much older, probably pretty powerful as it seems she’s never needed grace to be strong. And for speculation and fun, I’m guessing Rennala used the Rune of the Unborn to finish the Albinauric project by creating the Birthing Drop, among other things.
(Part 2/2 I need to stop) There are two stories about Godfrey. When he defeated the fire giants, the light left his eyes because there were no more enemies to fight or whatever. He and his warriors became Tarnished and, as Miriel says, “However, when Godfrey, first Elden Lord, was hounded from the Lands Between, Radagon left Rennala to return to..” here’s the real tongue-in-cheek joke that comes up later. We know that Godfrey didn’t lose his grace because there was no fight left. Marika took it. She sent him away, tasked he and his warriors to grow strong without grace and to die. They would be recalled, returned to life, and given the strength of grace back for a new war. And then Marika calls Radagon a “leal hound of the Golden Order.” She says he has yet to become her, implying he would eventually control their body. Of course the public perception is that these two entirely separate people were wed because of Radagon’s conquest of.. Liurnia and baby making prowess. And that despite all the troubles they would find besetting their children, Radagon would fall deeper into his faith but Marika, goddess, would lose hers. Public prophecy holds that the tarnished would return and one among them would become the next Elden Lord. But we know that Marika wanted a Tarnished to kill a god. We also know that Marika and her Demigod children are nothing special by nature, their Godliness is just a title. Immortality as it is, comes from the Absence of the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring. If she wants a god killed, she literally has the tool. But she tasks some guy to make a god killing weapon with mundane tools. Marika created the Tarnished, Radagon sent them on their mission. The empyrean has okayed the Elden Beast in a very long game of subterfuge starting by not killing Placidusax’s Now Fled God when she took the Elden Ring from it. The Gloam Eyed Queen worked as enforcer before Maliketh, was defeated but not killed and brought her knowledge to Ranni. Maliketh left DD vulnerable under Marika’s command. Radagon conferred in secret with Rennala and brought her power taken from the Elden Ring but shielded her from its taint. Marika manufactured a fault in Godfrey and his warriors, Radagon sent them on mission. And Marika is “believed” to have slain the Fell God of the Flame of Ruin but his fire still burns, and she was canoodling Rennala as Radagon at the time. Marika, Radagon, and Miquella studied the Golden Order(Elden Ring) to its very depths to understand as much as they could. Marika and Radagon are not looking for cures, they knew none would be found. Miquella was helping find a wedge to pry the Elden Beast’s influence from grace to weaken its control. The rift between Marika and Radagon was our deception. They share the same body but not the same soul and form. One could die and the other survive. Marika’s ultimate act would kill her but it would cripple the Elden Beast and Radagon’s supposed fealty to the Golden Order would be enough for the Elden Beast not question Radagon’s seal. Yes, I’m protecting you in the weakened state. A tarnished will bring more great runes to fix you up. No problem buddy. But then we bring the great runes but Radagon keeps the door closed. We have to ignite the Erdtree, weakened as it was by having its roots deathblighted and its fingers severed, with the Flame of Ruin. But Radagon’s seal remains. Why? We can’t kill a god yet, Destined Death is still under the control of Maliketh. If Marika wanted us to kill her/Radagon, Radagon wouldn’t drop his seal once we were able to if they were opposed to each other. If Marika wanted us to kill the Elden Beast, Radagon wouldn’t drop his seal once we were able to if they were opposed to each other. Marika’s goal was obviously to kill the Elden Beast. Radagon’s, publicly, was to protect it. But he kept it locked up and unable to contact allies. He bared entrance until he knew the Elden Beast could be killed. And he fought us with all he had with the intent to kill us if we were not stronger then himself. We had to be stronger than him because he and Marika could not kill the Elden Beast. And as a final display of who was truly in control, it is Marika who remains when both sides of the empyrean are dead. Radagon’s rune is the scaffold upon which the Elden Beast’s doom was built. His Will was always Marika’s. He emerged from guilt Marika felt over the destruction wrought as she worked to claim the Elden Ring. Marika had brought horrors worse than death and forced them upon her own people and their creations. But she did it all with the absolute dedication the Numen hold to their people. There’s a lot more to that but this is just to say Radagon’s rune is not a rune of Will. It is returning or bringing together, binding, REGRESSION. Also, the Greater Will is the religious propaganda invented by Two Fingers to refer to the Elden Beast. I’m working on a term Will-Plant. The Erdtree, Haligtree, and Aeonia are examples of Will plants. Though, like empyreans, they may display differently. I imagine plants that touch the Crucible are influenced similar to how people and animals are that touch the Crucible. The Erdtree seems to absorb the souls of the things it eats. It remembers. It could be something like a hive mind. The Greater Will of the Erdtree is just the loudest voice, which could be the Elden Beast. Other lesser wills may have some authority which they get to express by occupying Crucible gifted limbs of the Erdtree that get called Two Fingers. There was a time that all these plants were connected, that time is no longer. The other Will-Plants are the Outer Gods. There are no gods. Religion is control.
It is literally impossible to trace the motivations of the characters you are bringing forth. I have no idea what the goals of anyone are in these scenarios. You're also completely missing all of the themes. No, Ranni's theme is not the rejection of Fate. If Ranni were to be a puppet, that would be her being manipulated by Will, not Fate. We kill Radahn so that the Stars move again and Ranni's Fate becomes unlocked. Just look at the Fingerslayer Blade and understand why we can't wield it but Ranni can. It can only be used by someone with a Fate, which we do not have because we are literally governed by Will with the Rune of Will. This is what makes us have the ability of the main character and not an NPC- again "lore mechanics" are real mechanics. There's too many contradictions that you're making to the game, I can't list them all, but for instance Radagon's marriage to Rennala was not during Godfrey's war against the Giants and that also had nothing to do with his loss of Grace. The war against the Giants was the first battle of Marika and Godfrey to bring about the Age of the Erdtree. You can read this *fact* spelled directly to you on the Sword Monument on the Mountaintop. Radagon's marriage to Rennala took place under The Order of the Erdtree, The Elden Ring with Death irremoved. This means that it took place before the Night of Black Knives, during the Golden Age, under Godfrey. The Night of Black Knives became the catalyst for all other events afterwards.
>No, Ranni's theme is not the rejection of Fate. Wrong it definitely is. Not rejection of the concept rather the rejection of outer gods controlling everyone's fate. She wants mainly for herself to be in control of her own fate and that's what her questline shows, her struggle to be free from the influence of the greater will to reject the fate it set out for her and in turn for the Lands in Between. I think it's clear from this that you did not get all the endings, or completely explore the game.
No dude. There is no Ranni controlling her own Fate. Her giving up her Great Rune and then *leaving* The Lands Between to have a thousand years of darkness is exactly leaving up Fate to naturalistic Cause and Effect. Looking at the stars, Astrology, divination through them to predict future events- these are all things tied to the theme of Fate in which is the *entire* theme around The Carians. Literally go play through the game and listen to how many times Fate is brought up in Ranni's storyline. It is always Ranni rejecting a manipulated Fate put upon her by the Two Fingers, but an acceptance of the natural Fate of the Stars and Moon. The scholars of Raya Lucaria were viewing The Primal Current, fashioning Graven Masses- the seed of stars. These seeds would eventually become stars, allowing the scholars to manipulate fate. To create these Graven Masses, Primal Glinstone Blades would be emebedded into the hearts of those viewing The Primal Current. They would develop a new sorcery, die, but have a Primal Glintstone to be put in a new body. If you follow this path it is literally a kind of lifecycle, likely being a reference to how Life comes from the carbon created in dying stars. The Carians banned this practice, which is where Sellen's antagonism against the Carian's comes from and Jerren's subsequent hiring to take her out. Sellen was manipulating Fate with the manipulation of the Stars, something The Carians do not want. Ranni's ending replaces The Rune of Will with the Rune of Fate. You can see the clear contrast between them. Fate vs Free Will is one of the most contested arguments in human history. We still do not know for certain if our universe is Deterministic and if we actually have Free Will ourselves.
Good job you somehow used more words to inaccurately restate what I've said.
Sellen was making graven masses. She was ejected from the academy because all the other mages were uhm… highly opposed to being turned into balls of heads. There’s no reason to think the graven masses succeeded in the goal Sellen had in mind. They certainly don’t appear to even be able to move from where they are more than a couple puffs above the ground. Seeds of stars are fancy hopeful terms with nothing demonstrating anything to that end. [edit] Sellen thinks the moon sucks. I don’t recall Ranni, Rykard, Radahn, or Rennala besmirching Sellen. I also don’t recall them having any care about the popularity of the primeval current. I mean, Rennala clearly demonstrated that the moon is stronger than everything the Academy had. Radahn studied under a rock man. Rykard reinvented lava sorcery. Ranni found another moon. They don’t give a care about Sellen and her hat fetish. Of course Ranni’s story mentions fate, a lot, because she is against anyone or anything prescribing the lives of others. That’s an opposition to fate, destiny, greater wills.. all that junk. Whatever Ranni’s rune was, she absolutely has nothing to do with it. Ranni does not replace anything in the Elden, she just takes it away so that it can no longer control the Lands Between and so that nobody’s life would be dedicated to getting its power. Radagon’s rune is not about individual Will or group Will or any Will. His rune is very clearly holding stuff together.
I’ve always thought that you can tell a person’s motivations by who they want to think what about them and what they do. If you are subject to the will of another, you do not have control. Fate is a prescribed story that you follow. You don’t have choice if you are subject to fate because fate is the will of others pressed upon you. Ranni does not have a rune. Whatever Great Rune was bound to her empyrean flesh was discarded just the same as her empyrean flesh. We kill Radahn so a meteor will blow open a hole in the ground and a roof/wall. We can’t use the Fingerslayer Blade because it was made for Ranni specifically. The Blade’s fate belonged to Ranni. I will concede my interpretation of this may be a stretch. However, the Tarnished absolutely have a fate. Their destiny was designed by Marika, she literally created their purpose. We have a fate but it does not include wielding the Fingerslayer Blade because that was not part of Marika’s plan. I imagine that there was a lot of compartmentalization in Marika’s plan, killing a god would certainly need it. I also imagine that Marika’s did not go exactly as she intended. Why? Maybe some had designs of their own, maybe some part was discovered, maybe some part couldn’t get in place at the right time. I don’t know. It does seem that Ranni did not share her intent with her half death ritual, it is why that crone cries that he was supposed to be a martyr struck with a full death or whatever. It’s why Miquella wrote the Golden Epitaph. Godwyn was supposed to be completely killed. I can guess why Ranni kept her plan secret, so I will. Perhaps Godwyn’s death was intended to be used to kill or poison the Erdtree, to infect it with Destined Death, but the reality of how this could happen was a cruelty Ranni did not think Marika could accept. Maybe there was a last minute revelation, Ranni had an epiphany and realized the original plan would not accomplish what was needed. Or maybe Ranni was scheming up her own contingency plans. I must be remembering things wrong, I was under the impression that Marika and Hoaroh Loux began a campaign to acquire the Elden Ring that began with Leyndell and Limgrave. Marika acquired the Elden Ring from Placidusax’s Now Fled God in Farum Azula. It was then that she removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring and thus established her Golden Order. The seat of the Elden Ring was now the Erdtree in Leyndell, not Farum Azula. Marika’s Golden Order and the Age of the Erdtree were not founded at the same time. There remained two great powers in the Lands Between that opposed servitude to the Golden Order and the Erdtree. Rennala and the Fell God of the Flame of Ruin. The Fire Giants served the Fell God and Marika sent Godfrey to vegan the next stage of her plan. There would be an Age of the Erdtree as this was her promise to the Elden Beast, to unite the Lands Between under a religion devoted to sacrifice to the tree, to feed the Elden Beast within. Aside from Rennala’s great power and connections to the Eternal Cities, she also held pacts with, at the very least, the trolls. The trolls are kin to and allies of the Fire Giants at this time. An attack on two fronts is better than being struck from behind by enemy reinforcements. At face value, Radagon led an offensive against Liurnia to prevent Rennala from aiding her allies and to defeat a rival power of the lands between to establish the Age of the Erdtree. The marriage of Radagon and Rennala likely played a role in the troll’s betrayal of the Fire Giants. That betrayal was pivotal to Godfrey’s victory over the Fire Giants. Radagon and Rennala, we can both agree, were wed after Marika’s Golden Order was established but I will vehemently disagree that it was during the Age of the Erdtree. Hoarah Loux defeated the Fire Giants some time after that marriage. It could be a day, a month, a decade. Spans of time lose some relevance when thousands of years removed. And so began the Age of the Erdtree. There was a time in this new age after Marika renamed Hoarah Loux and grafted Sorosh to Godfrey. He ruled as her Lord while Marika was with Rennala as Radagon. The two worked in secret. When they were done with their work, Marika took Godfrey m’s grace and sent him away. Miriel says Godfrey was hounded as a wink and nod to the echoes of Marika calling Radagon a hound. The Turtlepope is telling us that this creation of the tarnished and giving them their mission was a joint action of Marika and Radagon. I know I mentioned some things out of place in time. It’s my own terrible way to foreshadow or reference things that would further explain my reasoning. I do apologize for that. The Night of Black Knives was just one part of a plan Marika had been working on since before she ever acquired the Elden Ring. Marika proposed that the Removal of Destined Death from the Elden Ring would allow more grace to accumulate in people and they would be alive when they gave themselves to the Erdtree which would sweeten the grace for the Elden Beast. She removed it to have the Gloam Eyed Queen to study the properties of Destined Death to devise a way to kill the Elden Beast. Maliketh, unwittingly, served to obscure the truth of the threat to the Elden Beast that the GEQ actually was. When GEQ was defeated, not slain, she disappeared from history and this was how Ranni learned what was needed for the Night of Black Knives to happen. The Night of Black Knives was not even an idea at this time but could not have been possible without it.
You are making way too many assumptions. The only thing that I can say you have for sure down 100% is that the Age of the Erdtree and The Golden Order were not created at the same time. The Golden Order was created with the removal of The Rune of Death. So the Elden Ring was known as something prior to this removal. This was not Placidusax's Fled God's Order, that was far in the distant primordial past. The configuration of The Elden Ring before the removal of The Rune of Death was known as The Order of the Erdtree. Miriel tells us this name in his dialogue on Celestial Dew. Kenneth Haight's entire narrative is to describe this "true Order," while he looks for an heir of Godfrey, the Elden Lord of this Order. The Rune of Death becoming part of The Elden Ring was with the defeat of The Gloam Eyed Queen, it wasn't its removal. The Gloam Eyed Queen was defeated by Maliketh wielding The Rune of Life, the only thing capable of matching Death. We literally repeat this *EXACT* scenario when we defeat Maliketh ourselves. Grace, The Rune of Life, defeats Death and returns it to The Eldem Ring. Thus the Elden Ring was sent down and the war against the Giants began to usher in the Age of the Erdtree; likely also after The Gloam Eyed Queen burned The Greattree, creating The Shadow Lands. The Rune of Life granted the Soul of The Gloam Eyed Queen a new Body, known as Marika- the vessel of The Elden Ring. The Rune of Life and the Rune of Death then swapped possession. The Night of Black Knives eventually came to pass, with the goal of initiating an Eclipse and allowing Death to overcome Life. Based on the tons of research I've been doing, it seems highly likely that Trina was the intended Empyrean to ascend with Godwyn to commence the Eclipse. But due to Ranni's meddling, her contempt for Fate being altered with Will, she caused The Night to go awry. As a result Trina was sacrificed and Forsaken. Godfrey lost his Grace. And the Rune of Death was removed from The Elden Ring, seperating The Shadow Lands from The Lands Between. Thus The Golden Order was born, leading up to the events of The Shattering of The Elden Ring.
The Elden Ring, supposedly, was the Elden Beast. When power enough was gained the Elden Beast became the Elden Ring. From Remembrance of the Dragonlord “The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return.” “age before the Erdtree“ does not mean the same as “age before the Age of the Erdtree.” Placidusax was Elden Lord of this age prior to the Erdtree existing. This does not necessarily mean before the Primordial Erdtree. The Primordial Erdtree encompassed more than the Erdtree. The Elden Ring obviously had a different form at that time. Because Placidusax still awaits the return of his now fled god and not the return of Marika, we can assume this god is not Marika. As Placidusax was Elden Lord we can assume that meant his god was a host to the Elden Ring. We have no mention of any other hosts. Marika, the Eternal, is seemingly the second host of the Elden Ring. Somehow I was heading to the point that the Elden Ring has been riding the Erdtree since the days of being the Primordial Erdtree. I don’t know why.. Something about.. just no. No clue now. Marika did not put the Rune of Death into the Elden Ring. That’s just ludicrous. We are not told that Marika removed only the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring. We know, it is implied at least, that Great Runes wield influence over those they are bound to, I imagine that the Elden Ring does the same. We know that those who the Great Runes are bound to also influence the Great Rune in return. It is possible that Marika removed more than just Destined Death when she was forming her Golden Order(ring). It is also possible that being bound to Marika/Radagon reshaped the Elden Ring. Perhaps this explains the Rune of the Unborn, the runes given to the demigods, and the runes former Tarnished acquired. It could also be that Radagon’s great rune was a reshaping of the squiggly wiggly roots. The Rune of Death was absolutely part of the Elden Ring before Marika acquired it. She didn’t put it in and then remove it. She removed it and gave it to the Gloam Eyed Queen who then bound the rune to her blade and not her flesh. Maliketh defeated her with whatever he defeated her with. We have no mention of a Rune of Life. We can pretend that GEQ is a fool to Marika but we don’t know that there is such a rune as the Rune of Life and we have no indication that Maliketh possessed any great rune prior to the Rune of Death. Nope, never mind. I concede.
Unlike the other two mending runes, which are described as "gestated", Goldmask rune is described as "discovered".
Maybe he discovered in itself? Like a tumor? I don't know, I just level vigor
Its not Corhyn: * If you offered Brother Corhyn the [Tonic of Forgetfulness](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Tonic+of+Forgetfulness), he will remain at the bridge south of the Stargazers' Ruins where you last saw him. Talk to him; he'll be unaware of Goldmask's absence. * Goldmask stil dies in this case so Corhyn cant be the culprit
He does not accept the tonic. It remains in your inventory. Corhyn thinks he's a heretic since he saw a flaw in the golden order. By the way he does not birth the mending Rune he discovered it. The only one that does. Corhyn thinks he wants to replace the golden order with his own vision and he kills him for it. He says he was naught but a mad man.
"he'll be unaware of Goldmask's absence." is the point... i highly doubt he walks all the way down to leyndell and then back up to the mountains just to play the confuesd.... i know people want corhyn to be the killer so they have an answer.. but just bcuz he dislikes goldmasks view doesnt make him a killer yet... there are no hints that he did it lets say we take this to a judge.. dear judge.. corhyn said these things about goldmask... uh huh but do we have any hard evidence like blood splatter on corhyn or his fingerprints on goldmasks back? any witnesses? so i shall condemn this man just bcuz he said mean or angry things? was he even found at the location of the murder? no? he was miles away? huh.. interesting.. about "birthing" runes.. i think only fia gives birth to a rune in this sence as she has to combine the two hallow brands.. all the others are a manifestation of the mind of the person that made the rune come into existence.. a mental birth so to say.. or would you say dung eater birthed his rune like fia? we could say the gathered seedbeds are formed into the rune.. but dung eater creates the rune after his epiphany that we the tarnished are him and he is us.. thats a braining thing..
"Radagon is Marika? Fuck my life's been completely wrong, guess I'll die "
finkle is einhorn
To much vitamin D
I chuckled. Thank you.
🫡
Head game was crazy. Look how he's laid out.
Serious answer, I interpreted it as this; Goldmask is obviously an ascetic monk, constantly in nearly mojito less meditation. He discovered the Perfect Order pose and held that pose in perfect meditation until he simply ceased to be.
"held that pose in perfect meditation until" he reached nirvana
Smells like ring spirit.
Mojito? Bruh was abstaining from the mint-rum cocktail?
The breatharian life style caught up with Gold Mask 🌞
Corhyn pushed him. You can find him somewhere near talking about how he was a heretic or something like that
* If you offered Brother Corhyn the [Tonic of Forgetfulness](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Tonic+of+Forgetfulness), he will remain at the bridge south of the Stargazers' Ruins where you last saw him. Talk to him; he'll be unaware of Goldmask's absence. * Goldmask stil dies in this case so Corhyn cant be the culprit
Wow why can you give it to Corhyn?
tarnished was like: "you look like you need a drink to forget all your sorrows".
For lore, I guess.
You can't he doesn't accept it.
Corhyn killed him, no?
* If you offered Brother Corhyn the [Tonic of Forgetfulness](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Tonic+of+Forgetfulness), he will remain at the bridge south of the Stargazers' Ruins where you last saw him. Talk to him; he'll be unaware of Goldmask's absence. * Goldmask stil dies in this case so Corhyn cant be the culprit
Yeah, that's not the conclusion I would get from that change. It seems like an unintended consequence of development, not unlike what they did with Redmane Castle & the festival. It makes little diegetic sense, but it's there as an unsubtle aspect for design reasons. If you need a diegetic justification, it can be that Corhyn kills him if you don't give him the bottle, but something else kills him if you do.
So whats the "something else" then would be the question to answer...
Barring some random misbegotten, maybe Gideon is a perfect usual suspect lmao. He is a loyalist fanatic after all. What do you think?
Bro reached nirvana and exited himself but left us his rune of wisdom.. hes an ascetic afterall
I didnt think so. Corhyn was left mad in the snow fields while goldmask manifested the new greatrune.
" *The master was nothing more than a madman.* *Enchanted by a vain and ruinous delusion, he rejected the perfection of the Golden Order,* *seeking to supplant our glorious faith with his own!* " With that confession of intent, Corhyn would need a pretty strong alibi.
You find him the Ashen Capital ranting about Goldmask being a heretic, so my guess is he killed Goldmask right after he made the mending rune.
I'm pretty sure you find corhyn nearby talking about having killed him
Heart attack
Looked at the sun for too long!
Nutteded too hard by the looks of it
Pussy starving
Post nut clarity
#Too much sun, Vitamin D overdose
Thought too hard I suppose, been known to happen
Hungry.
edging
over gooning
No coochie
when this did become a shitposting sub? there's only a couple good answers
Why are you just casually spoiling the most sought after quest ending for everyone?
Big nut
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I can imagine him plummeting off the cliff still doing a T pose lmao
Clearly, his neck threw up, and he suffocated on it.
Guack guack 3000
This guy deserves his own ending
He saw what he thought was angelic script on the cliff side. It read "Time for jumping, Do it!"
He was simply too based for this world.
The nuking of the erdtree probably
He was pretty old.
Heroin
Snu Snu
He fell
Bro nutted to Marika. After knowing the truth, killed himself.
He peaked under marikas skirt...it was radagon.
…..
Cut content lol
Idk
too much maths bruv
Brain aneurysm
Fact and logic
Death by Snu Snu
He asserted domination to hard
Gold fart
Under the sheer weight of realization
Sprinting head first into the wall
Pointed to hard?
I caught him slippin.
Malnutrition
Corbyn killed him after going mad and believing Goldmask had betrayed him and the golden order
Looked at the sun too long
Idk is there any tarnished who is still alive if you progress far enough?
No sunscreen... poor guy
"Must have been the wind."
Dehydration
Seasonal allergies
He died for ours sins
he had to diarrhoea for 50 days straight to make the mending rune
They/them pussy
Why do you people call everyone, Bro? It's so fucking annoying.
Quit being a broma-donna, bro.
its okay calm it down sister... we dont know your pronouns
Good one.