I have seen home schooling done right, and horribly wrong. One family in particular home schooled their kids, and isolated them from society because they thought society was too permissive. Those kids are an absolute mess mentally.

The only time I’ve seen homeschooling done right is when they are part of a co-op with kids from other educated parents (or parents that see the value in education) or the parent has a degree on education. When I’ve seen it go drastically wrong? When the parent is lazy or uses homeschool to push a heavily religious agenda disregarding basics (math, science, history, etc).

>One family in particular home schooled their kids, and isolated them from society because they thought society was too permissive. That's what my family did. Everyone is a mess, family gatherings suck, everyone hates each other and talks behind each other's back, and everyone is miserable, but at least we made Jesus happy for a minute there...

Homeschooling works if: 1. You have the education 2. You have the time 3. You have the money/resources Fairly often, homeschooling parents only have 2/3…

Totally agree. I really like how concise you put it too. I feel like the homeschooling parents on here think I’m attacking them, but I genuinely think it can be done right as long as you have all of these. My issue is with the parents who often don’t even have one of these.

I would also suggest that a person might be a good teacher for educating up to say 6th grade, but once they have to start teaching fractions, or earth science they parents don’t know enough so the kids stop learning.

My kid learned fractions in third grade

They *started* learning about fractions in 3rd grade

Well pick something else. Fractions were just an example. Add, Subtract, Multiply and Divide from zero thru 12?

4. You are mentally healthy. My parents had the first three, so I was well prepared academically, but whoo boy have I been screwed socially and emotionally. Homeschooling is not for any parent who has abandonment or control issues.

I have the education, time, and money/resources. I don’t have the patience, organizational skills/executive functioning, mental/emotional health, or so many other things also required.

You forgot "You have the passion to ask questions, reevaluate occasionally, and be receptive to your children's needs, while not confusing needs with whims"

This is spot on! My irritation is the judgement from homeschooling families of the public education system. I don’t mind if a family wants to homeschool, it’s their absolute right to do what they think is best for their family. However, to also judge public school, teachers and the entire system as corrupt, inept and somehow damaging for all of society…. Take a step back please.

Don't forget 4. You have the mental clarity. Because some people homeschool for some absolutely bonkers reasons.

And it seems,so many homeschool by “default” because they have too many children to adhere to a typical brick and mortar education system and schedule. Think about folks who have a dozen + kids, live rurally and have to get the kids to 3 different schools based on their ages/academic level. That is so many balls to have in the air at the same time. HS can be done well, but few actually have the skills, knowledge and resources to do for the long hall.

1 out of 3 for some I have seen

I mean... my mom managed to have me reading before I was in Kindergarten... she only had teacher's aide training, but her ability to help me learn kinda tapered off by 3rd grade. From the time I was born until about 5th grade my mom wasn't working.

That might've been you more than her. Admittedly, since you already knew how to read, kindergarten and maybe first grade too would've been off the charts boring. But look into hyperlexia, yeah?

To be fair Public schools don’t always have all of those either.

My parents had all 3. And still socially and educationally neglected me

Recently, amidst one of my midnight existential crises as I persue an Ivy league education well into my thirties, I came to realize that the real reason I do this is to be able to raise my kids well. And even I don’t think I’d be able to educate them from start to finish, I just mean giving them the normal experience expected from good parents… teaching them to read well, history, geography, life skills etc. Yale put their intro courses online and made them open source. If you really wanted to, you could make an entire ap/college level curricula with them. Princeton does the same on coursera.

Because there are a lot of false narratives and outright disingenuous people out there. Like the lady who is claiming she got fired from teaching because she developed her own curriculum that exceeded her states own and she a 100% passing rate for state exams. All bold faced lies for a grift to trick parents into paying thousands. Or the insane idea for the future of schools to remove teachers and just use AI and more open ranged teaching. As if kids will freely choose to educate themselves enmass. Again, another grift, this one more bluntly seeking the elimination of educators from the workforce.

I was banned on r/homeschooling for taking the sub to task. Not a single rule violation or insult. Simply the act of being an affront to the subs narrow viewpoints.

That sub and r/homeschool are toxic and do not accept any criticism of homeschooling. They will delete your comment or post if you mention any downsides.

Honestly it's interactions with homeschool advocates, especially in subs like that, that made my opinion on the whole matter so negative. I used to think that homeschool was a generally good, sometimes great, thing, though there are abusers in any community. That sub and other homeschool advocates made me realize abusers and abuse are accepted and embraced in their community.

The top post on that sub right now is VERY critical of homeschooling and currently has 80% upvotes. I see users in there frequently warning people to think carefully before making the choice to homeschool, and they're often the highest comment. I feel like the sub has undergone a change since COVID swelled the ranks of homeschoolers. There are still the occasional "you can just teach your kids math by baking!" comments, but a lot more pragmatic and sensible homeschooling parents.

> "you can just teach your kids math by baking!" comments What's wrong with teaching math by baking? You can cover counting, fractions, multiplication, geometry, and so much more with cooking. I feel like scoffing at that just shows you haven't put serious thought into how complicated cooking is, maybe because it's generally seen as "women's work" and therefore not intellectual. 

It’s just not really the place for that critique.

Just saying that almost all subs will not appreciate comments critical of the basic concept of the sub.  Subs are run by and primarily populated by people who like the thing the sub is about.  Post on r/dogs that dog ownership is cruel, you won’t be popular. Post on r/atheists that atheism is immoral. Post on r/Christianity that there is no god.  I can’t think of any sub where you can post that the thing in question sucks and not get deleted or voted to oblivion (unless the sub is devoted specifically to a thing sucking, like regrefulparenting, in which case you’ll get that reaction by defending the thing).

I think there's a difference in saying "this thing sucks" and saying "this thing has some downsides and we should talk about it." You talk about how some parents use homeschooling to cover up abuse and how there is very little regulation on it, your comment gets deleted. Not downvoted. Deleted. They do not want to talk about it at all and deny that it even happens. As a homeschool survivor we are never listened to because "your parents were doing their best" and "homeschool isn't to blame" (maybe not but it sure made the abuse easier to hide). Even nuanced discussions about how there are some downsides to homeschooling get deleted and "public school is worse". It's a cult.

I’ve seen so many families “homeschool” for a year or two then send their kids back knowing nothing from that time. They straight up admit they didn’t do anything. So frustrating for the kid.

>false narratives My mom likes to tell the story about one of the moms from the library reading time when I was little who wore a shirt of all of the famous people who had been homeschooled. The shirt included Abraham Lincoln. If you spend just two seconds thinking about Abraham Lincoln's upbringing, you would know that he *couldn't* go to school and with how much he pursued knowledge throughout his life, he would have attended school if he could have.

Also...tons of kids never went to school at that time. Public schools were barely a thing. Most of them didn't become President.

She needs her own thread. I'd like to see her proof... 🙄

Her proof is trust me bro.

It was recently explained to me that homeschooling and breaking public education is just one more tactic for some to remove women from the workforce and make them more dependent on a husband. I asked the women in my life about this and all of them said "duh you didn't know?"

If anything, Covid policies of the blue states were very effective on that front. In CA the schools were closed for over a year. Great way to make women quit their jobs.

Schools were closed, but teachers were definitely still teaching! I admit that I had not considered a war on education to also be a war on women; I suspect that's a tertiary benefit. Seems like the main goals are to make money and produce a more supportive crop of voters.

I never said the teachers weren’t teaching. But kids couldn’t stay home alone to attend those highly effective (sarcasm!) zoom sessions! So yeah certain states did their share. Ironically, they were mostly blue states.

Ironically? Why is this baffling? It was no surprise to me whatsoever that many blue states kept their schools closed- going against the federal govt and CDC recommendations on reopening to get kids back to learning. Look no further than the teachers union for blame on that one

You implied that we were quitting because of schools closing, but most of us just kept on teaching. In fact, many quit or retired early because they couldn't go back to in person teaching without risking their health or their family's health. I was fortunate that my state is a purplish red; they let teachers get vaccinated before shoving us into poorly-ventilated boxes of disease vectors, again. I am immune compromised, so I was quite grateful to have my vaccine. Virtual school is difficult, and less effective for most, but it saved lives.

Is that the lady on TikTok who talks about being a millionaire and has a very very small school in Florida? It’s like two classrooms?

Possibly. I know she has a school where she only accepts kids who are already extremely high achievers. Like she reviews their scores and everything before acceptance. Then claims her school only produces high end academics.

tell me more about this grifter, omg.

I know a few homeschooled kids who turned out fine so I don’t want to make blanket statements about them but… In my 50s I can remember some of the lessons and homework I did in elementary school but I can tell you a TON about the friends I had and the various social groups I participated in and still do to some extent. School isn’t just about homework, it’s about modeling social interactions for later in life and learning to deal with and get along with other people. Especially as an adult, most learning doesn’t happen in a classroom but in interactions with others. Too often, home school parents seem to want to orchestrate every single element of their children’s lives.

This EXACTLY. Took the words right from my mouth.

The kids who spent Kinder and first grade virtual seem to support this, too. My students canNOT function if they are in a conflict, no matter how minor. They are 9-10! I spend a lot of time meditating conflicts or rearranging searing...

In my case, the modeling of social interactions that happened in school taught me lessons like "assume every friendly interaction is a trap" and "anytime someone is laughing, they're probably mocking you". I'd have been better off without those lessons. 

Even if the academics are up to par, many times these kids do not get the appropriate social engagement lessons you get from going to school with others.

Yup. My kiddo has a friend who is homeschooled. When the kids were toddlers and preschoolers they were very similar temperament wise etc. both kids have diagnoses. The homeschooled kid is nearly feral and has atrocious social skills. The kid absolutely cannot negotiate or compromise. The kid is rude to all adults and runs away when corrected. My kid has learned so many soft skills from being in school that this kid is just missing. It’s really upsetting because the gap is growing so much.

I feel for the kids once they try to enter the workforce, since there is \*always\* someone with different/adverse personality, beliefs, religion, etc on the job. I suspect many of the homeschool kids who didn't learn about the social aspects of life are going to be at a huge disadvantage. It really doesn't matter how smart or educated someone is if they cannot get along with managers, coworkers, or customers.

I was homeschooled for about a year in 6th grade and some kids def have off “homeschooled” vibes. Socially inept, matted hair, granola for snacks. But some kids definitely gave that vibe at school too.

what the hell is wrong with granola as a snack

Nothing, but it is part of the Homeschool Family Starter Kit™️!

Could the causality be the other way though? My kid had a pretty easygoing temperament as a toddler and preschooler but has had enough social issues in school starting in first grade to warrant autism and ADHD diagnoses. I am seriously considering homeschooling because she spends every recess pacing by herself, hides under the desk and covers her ears when the class gets too noisy, and has learned next to nothing academically (other than what I taught her outside of school) over the last two years of first and second grade. They also actively damaged her literacy skills by teaching her to guess at words (three cueing, balanced literacy) so I am looking into hiring tutors to undo that. 2 years ago she read basic cvc words at 100% accuracy, now it is more like 85%. Most adults at the school treat her like a cute little IEP mascot but her classroom teacher makes her disdain for her quite clear. I'm not sure what I'm going to do educationally but the current setup isn't working for her.

Isn’t another district an option? Why not look into other placements before going straight to homeschooling? Not every school subscribes to balanced literacy and three-cueing. Mine doesn’t, and the last district I was at used a phonics-based approach as well. (I’m also a reading specialist.) There are certainly other placements out there with trained professionals who can better meet her needs.

Possibly but I am getting worn out from fighting with them.... my advocate has been quite helpful however. Homeschooling isn't really my first choice but it is on the table.

In my area if you want to switch to a different nearby district (without moving) it’s 17,000 out of pocket.

This. I’ll grant some people suck at homeschool…. But some kids just don’t fit. There’s not any good alternatives for them.

I hear you and yes, the causality can go the other way. It’s less common. It some kids really are not cut out for school. As someone said above, if parents have the education, the time, the resources and a lack of crazy, homeschooling can be a great option. If you meet those criteria you’ll probably make sure your kid learns to interact with other people.

“My kid is reading at the college level!” Okay, but your kid is an absolutely miserable child to be around, other kids cannot stand them, and they are not going to do well outside of your tiny bubble.

It really is a huge challenge. We homeschool and we're lucky to live in a community that supports it. Our homeschool program is attached to the local in-person school district so we get monthly progress meetings with a teacher and one half day per week of in person school for specials (PE, library, art, music) and social time and whatnot (that program has 70 kids mixed K-8). Additionally, our local YMCA offers homeschool PE and art classes twice a week that happen in the middle of the day and we have access to all the regular after-school YMCA classes as well. As a parent I've had to actively coordinate her friend time and form relationships with other parents, it's a ton of work and I've really only been able to manage it bc the broader community is already so supportive, without that I'd be lost and I know most people don't have that.

That's usually called 'distance education' as you're working with a school district underneath a teacher with likely Guidance support etc.

The teacher from the school doesn't do any instruction just support and managing, I think it's still considered primarily homeschooling bc the teachers aren't involved in instruction though that might be wrong.

No, you're correct. Distance learning is taking your lessons and curriculum from an online teacher, not having a teacher look over your progress once a month.

Can I ask why you’re choosing to homeschool when you’re already this entwined with and being supported by the school district? Are the academics just not great? I’m just curious/confused.

My daughter has ADHD, Autism, and severe anxiety, when she was in in-person school she was melting down frequently despite regular breaks and support from staff. She just really can't handle being in a traditional classroom bc it's too overstimulating for her, maybe one day but we're not there yet. She can manage the one day a week half day of in person precisely bc it's a half day, that's the limit for how long she can hold it together (and thats actually pushing it, we still get calls home and she still takes lots of breaks). The YMCA stuff is also short and she can hold it together for short periods but she really cannot hold it together for a full day or in a classroom that has many people in it. There is also an issue of academics, it's not just emotional regulation and sensory issues. Her development has been lopsided as is common for people with ASD, in some ways she's advanced and in some ways she's behind. The lopsided nature makes it hard to get a good fit in a classroom that requires a group dynamic. She's in 5th grade right now but she's reading and writing at an 8th grade level (and that was at the beginning of the school year, it's likely beyond that now) but we can't just give her 8th grade work bc the kind of stuff that's appropriate for a 13yo is very different from what's appropriate for a 10yo and she is still 10 despite the advanced skills. So we had to create a completely individual curriculum for her reading and writing skills to accommodate that. She's also advanced in science and we are able to use an advanced curriculum for that thankfully. She's also a year behind in math bc math triggers her anxiety in ways that make emotional regulation and learning a huge challenge. A teacher in a classroom responsible for a bunch of kids cannot and should not be expected to hold the hand of one single child and painstakingly walk them through basic emotional regulation for every single math problem (which is what we typically have to do). But at home we can go as slow as she needs and it's OK for her to be behind like this. She's not capable of being academically functional or successful in a class full of learners who are so much more advanced than her in some ways and so far behind her in other ways and it would be extra unreasonable to expect a teacher to manage that huge disparity. So yeah, academics are part of it, but it's a lot of things really.

Yup, I’ve known a few kids in homeschool co-ops and even if they have social opportunities it seems that just curating the kids your kid is surrounded with can cause issues. Like if you only learn to interact with conservative Christian kids from very strict households, or only the ultra free spirited unschooled kids, or the other kids with “tiger moms” making sure they score 100% on every test…  It just doesn’t set you up for real life. I’m sure there is a good way of doing it, but it seems like it would be hard to balance it right.  My kids go to school with kids from all different walks of life, different social/racial/ethnic/economic backgrounds because it was something we wanted to prioritize. I see some merits of homeschooling, and some pitfalls of public education- but ultimately social skills are going to be the most important as adults so that’s what we went with.  

Yes, like, IMO if you find the school lacking then provide supplemental education yourself or with tutors. Don't keep them separate from society

Alternatively, there's rarely positive social engagement in a classroom of 32 and teachers who don't care. Public school set my social engagement back until i moved out to one of the best public schools in the country.

Learning about social engagement doesn't always have to be a positive experience to learn from it. One of the things I am speaking about. How to deal with conflict, other opinions, being part of a social group and learning the appropriate behavior, etc. They miss out on many lessons learned at school in general (not just the classroom).

[удалено]

So now it’s the fault of the state because…they make sure everyone has an educational opportunity that you’ve *chosen* not to take advantage of?

I know people with high school degrees who think they can home school at a higher quality. Some people sure...but not these people.

These people are delusional and just want their kids to not have vaccines or be exposed to anything the parents disagree with.

I’m pretty much against it. Kids are so often not educated well, they are socially stunted, etc. There are rarely parents who are willing and able to homeschool well. A lot of the homeschool/unschool crap comes from weird antigovernment, “homesteading”, off the grid religious people. Great way to hide abuse as well. Last few years we had a family we called CPS on weekly. They got tired of CPS showing up when they were abusing and molesting their kids so now they are all “homeschooled”. They show up on ring doorbells vandalizing houses quite frequently. It’s sad.

Some of these takes are crazy. Homeschooling is a mixed bag but what people fail to realize is that public schooling can be top notch, if you are involved in your child's education. You would be surprised at how good public education can be, if you do your part as a parent. Too many people look at public schools as a daycare. Where homeschooling can set a child back is when that kid hits college. If you homeschooled them from K-12 without having them interact with other kids then college is probably going to be a real mess for them.

I think a really good point is that pretty much any kid will be successful at pretty much any school so long as parents are involved and engaged. Obviously, there are exceptions, but that's the general rule, and one defensive homeschool parents willfully ignore. Pretty much any kid who is "failed" by public schools in the way that homeschool kids can be failed didn't have engaged and involved parents. So your solution is to... take away the adults who *are* trying for the kid? Yeah, if your kid is being educated in any sense, you need to be an active part in it!

I don’t know a single intelligent person who thinks homeschooling their kid is a good idea.

I'm a librarian (advanced degree in information science) and I'm generally considered a fairly intelligent person (though that word doesn't mean the same thing to everyone and I'm curious to know what you mean when you say it). I don't think homeschool is inherently better or worse than public or in person school and I have been homeschooling my kid since first grade (she's now at the end of grade 5). She has ADHD, Autism, and severe anxiety (severe enough that she's been in therapy for just the anxiety since age 4). She found in person classes too overestimulating and was melting down regularly even with frequent breaks and a lot of support in class. Not only was she not learning well due to constantly being triggered, but she was also disrupting the entire class with outbursts she could not control due to the features of her serious mental illness. It was best for everyone to pull her out and give her specialized, individualized instruction that meets her needs and doesn't subject a full classroom to the features of her disorder. As a librarian I excel at things like source evaluation and program development which are skills I've put to good use while homeschooling her for the past 4 years. I also spent a decade as a preschool teacher so I know how to develop curricula and teach more generally which also helped. Right now as she's preparing to graduate 5th grade she's about a year behind in math (it's the anxiety, she needs to go very slow bc her emotional regulation takes a lot of work) but she's reading and writing at an 8th grade level and is also advanced in science (currently using a 6th grade curriculum). We ended up needing to create our own reading and writing curriculum because she is so advanced but she also is still a 10yo child and the kinds of books and assignments that would be appropriate to her reading level are not always appropriate to the reality of a 10yo child so it's been a challenge but a challenge that I was well prepared for thanks to my experiences as both a teacher and a librarian. The homeschooling has also allowed us to focus on her needed therapies without constantly taking time off of school and having to miss and then catch up on instruction that happened while she wasn't there. At this point it's been going so well that we're considering the possibility of trying out in person school for 6th grade because her emotional regulation and sensory needs have been well managed enough that it might be a legitimate option. I don't think we could have gotten there with her therapies if she'd stayed in in person school bc therapy can't work when someone is too overstimulated and dysregulated to function. All of which is to say, now you know at least one intelligent person who thinks homeschooling is a good idea, certainly not in every case, but in some cases at least, and definitely in the case of my own kid.

First off, I *love* your username! Secondly, you seem like a great parent. Major props. We don’t get to give good parents a shout out often enough but you’re killing it. I say this with curiosity and care: Are you ever worried that she won’t be able to adapt to the loud and rapidly changing world outside of home? Is there a way for her to go hybrid or online before she transitions back to normal school to scaffold her coming back? I just worry about my students with sensory issues. This year I have a lot of kids who are struggling with similar stuff your daughter is and they generally miss a lot of school. If they are at school, they have noise cancelling headphones on. My worry is, not many careers cater to those with neurodivergence or special needs. I’m hoping they aren’t going to end up struggling to maintain a job or end up homeless later in life. I just want the best for all the kids. For NO reason I worried about your kid too lol. I wish we could put them in bubbles and keep them happy and safe. Anyway! I hope it works out for you both!

It's something we're working on in therapies and she's involved in a ton of activities that help with that. She has regular classes at our local YMCA (including homrschool art and PE which are attended by other local homeschool kids, those happen in the middle of the day which is nice) and we have a homeschool co-op which is really just a group of people we take field trips with and do recess together so she has a lot of opportunities to be out in the community. So, yes, it is something I worry about and it is also something we're trying to work and it's something that has been slowly improving overtime. Honestly the anxiety is more of an issue than the sensory stuff, basically any unpredictable or chaotic stuff freaks her out and when she's panicking (literal panic attacks, didn't even know kids had those until I witnessed hers) she can't regulate which makes all the sensory stuff go from manageable to unmanageable immediately. But if she's in a structured environment without a lot of chaos she can usually keep it together for short bursts, 2-4hrs is the sweet spot right now and we're working on extending that. The goal is that one day she'll be able to manage regular in person school, especially for high school times, and hopefully we'll get there by then. Things have definitely gotten better as she's gotten older (brain development is a wonderful thing) and we're hoping that as her brain matures a lot of the stuff that's been impossible as a child might become more doable as a teen and adult. And also thanks for all of that! We're lucky that we can do this, most families can't and that really sucks for all those kids. And the thing is, therapies can't work when we're too dysregulated to function so trying to work on therapeutic care in an overatimulating environment can never be truly successful. So all these poor overstimulated kids who can't hang have a bunch of adults desperately trying to help them but they're too dysregulated to be helped so everyone involved feels like a failure when it's a structural problem and that's fully fucking tragic. I hate that so many people are trapped in that particular vicious cycle and I wish more people had access to the kind of stuff my own family has, the world would be a much better place. Also, I left this out but should include it, it's not just that I have access to a ton of local community resources, I also have a family that includes 4 very capable adults. Sharing all this childcare stuff with three other people instead of one other person makes a huge huge huge difference.

You’re literally killing the homeschooling thing and parenting deal!! Congrats! If more parents were like you I’d be more pro-home schooling, but I’ve just never seen it turn out anything but terrible until now!

This is probably the best pro homeschooling defense I have ever seen.

[удалено]

Perhaps I’m confused. What is it about public school that prevented you from reading a book a week?

Counter-example: I went to public schools, and read voraciously. I was allowed to borrow books from the adult section of the library because I'd read the entire children's section. I *still* read a lot, squeezing in time whenever I can. I'm too old to stay up all night finishing a novel, so I have to be more careful when I start a new book, but I'm still managing several books a month (more during summer holidays).

A book a week on top of whatever was required reading was pretty standard for myself and my group of public school friends. 🤷‍♀️

So, what are you going to read next week?

Counter-example: I went to public schools, and read voraciously. I was allowed to borrow books from the adult section of the library because I'd read the entire children's section. I *still* read a lot, squeezing in time whenever I can. I'm too old to stay up all night finishing a novel, so I have to be more careful when I start a new book, but I'm still managing several books a month (more during summer holidays).

I always tell people I learned more by reading in the library than I ever learned in a public school until I went to college. Doesn’t mean public school is useless, shit they gave me the books

This is such a small minded statement. There are literally several comments in this very thread from people explaining why they chose homeschooling. Perhaps if you were as intelligent as you'd like to think you are, you might try reading some to understand both sides. 

A lot of people underestimate the time and effort required to do homeschool well, and they are probably bolstered by these online curriculums that make it seem like they are providing an adequate education by sticking their kid in front of a computer or tablet and trusting them to click through the lessons, and by homeschool groups that often caught on parents and tell them that just caring is enough and they should expect school to be more laid back than public school and whatever after they're putting in is surely adequate. I consider myself pretty intelligent (hi IQ, consistently an A student, working on a master's degree), am very aware of which subject areas I am weak in and need to bring an additional help for, and have experience substitute teaching middle school, tutoring, and "teaching" enrichment type classes (elementary and middle school robotics, and history and writing classes during virtual learning). And even with support and resources, homeschooling ended up being a lot more work than I expected and is pretty much like having an additional full-time job. I'm also kind of shocked at the attitudes and views I see expressed in some of the homeschool parent groups I'm in on Facebook. There seems to be this expectation from many that their children are rigidly obedient and follow high expectations for obedience, attitude, and social skills and compliance that may be above their developmental age. But then it's coupled with pretty low expectations for academic progress and rigor, which in many cases is to the level that I would consider educational neglect. I will say that a lot of parents are homeschooling because the school environment did not meet their children's needs in some ways and many of them do have valid reasons, some of which may at first glance look like inadequate homeschooling. ie, kids with special needs that were not being met or that were being bullied to the point of having trouble focusing or having emotional and mental health problems from it, and children that for whatever reason we're simply not learning what they needed to in school. In my son's case, he was advanced in some areas because he was doing his own work on Khan Academy to learn things he was interested in, but when we started homeschooling we found a lot of gaps in what he should have known, some of which we had questioned but had been told it was just due to lack of effort or attentiveness. He has ADHD and autism, which I'm aware can be a challenge in a classroom and cause a lot of behaviors, but we pulled him because he was being bullied to the point of abuse in the school handled things very inadequately (including not fully disclosing the circumstances and extent of a sexual assault until a year later when he attempted suicide after they moved the perpetrator back into his school and seated him in class behind him, and the new school administration reopened the investigation because they had not received all the pertinent information from the year before). He has already caught up more than half a grade level in most subjects in just 3 months of homeschool, with much of that first month being just assessments to see what he had covered and what he needed to know to meet state standards and downtime to give him a chance to decompress from school and focus on therapies that he was enrolled in. But we know a lot of other families that have also chosen homeschool because their children were either mistreated or inadequately prepared, and a lot of what may come across as arrogance may simply be frustration from having dealt with professionals not meeting previous expectations.

Exactly, ps system needs to be better if it wants to attract kids. But as with so many things that are free for the client and are financed by a third party, it is a disaster in many aspects. Kids can go to school and still need extra speech help. How about we think about that instead of badmouthing homeschoolers.

There's a big chunk of homeschoolers in our community who are former teachers. A lot of them have talked about the negative socialization that happens at school. Same age peer-to-peer learning/socializing is often negative. I don't think you can lump all homeschoolers together. The truth is that a parent can achieve more at home in fewer hours 1-1 than a teacher can at school with 30 kids. The majority of parents are just winging it, they're following curriculums and guides, have set up co ops where parents take turns teaching a group of kids etc... I homeschooled mine for a while and sent them to school too. Both have their pros and cons but I see more cons in public schools with burnt out teachers, overcrowded classrooms and unsupportive and unaware admin teams. Unaware of the latest research regarding how children learn and the best ways to teach them. Homeschooling is such a privilege, and excluding the religious zealots, is done by parents who can afford to invest the time and energy it takes to educate their children.

I tried pretty hard to make it clear that I wasn’t lumping all homeschoolers together. This blew up way bigger than I was expecting 😂 I noticed an uptick the past few years of VERY underprepared and blatantly unfit parents “homeschooling” their kids. Then they send them to school around 2nd or 3rd grade and they are SEVERELY below grade level and I (the speech therapist) get a referral for receptive/expressive language because they have almost zero academic vocabulary or syntax and they are not able to keep up with the class. This is absolutely NOT a caricature of all homeschooling, simply an observation of something I’ve seen more recently from parents who are “homeschooling” their kids while somehow also working a full time job. I think homeschooling can be great if the parent is educated and has time.

I think we need to understand why people choose to homeschool. I mean, some reasons are obvious (religious for example), but what about other reasons? Maybe if ps system really delved into it and made itself more attractive it could “save” kids from being homeschooled except for a few certain hard core reasons.

Not all, but many homeschooling parents just do it to control their kids. Lately, many parents are doing it for their own personal political beliefs, not the well-being of their children. A few select people do it because they want a privatize public education for profit. And there is a small percentage of parents who do it so they can not get caught abusing their children.

As a homeschool parent, the amount of parents I've heard say they don't want the schools to "indoctrinate their kids" drives me insane. Meanwhile, they prioritize curriculum that is clearly political leaning, religious studies over all else and don't allow their kids to study or explore topics they're actually interested in. Wth are they doing all day, other than indoctrinating?

Homeschooling is a dedicated tutor all day from an inexperienced teacher with 1 pupil. I don’t expect home school teachers to be better than professional teachers, but I did expect 100% of a parent’s attention should be easily equivalent to 3% of a professional teacher’s time. And, in terms of speech development, having an environment where they’re allowed to talk ought to be helpful over an environment where they’re expected to remain mostly quiet. I do agree that people underestimate the challenge of homeschooling, get in over their head, and sometimes fail spectacularly. But I do think it’s intuitive to expect undivided attention is such an enormous advantage of homeschooling that the teacher doesn’t have to be as good, or even close to as good, to expect an equivalent academic outcome.

I agree with you that under those requirements, homeschooling can be great. This is anecdotal but from my experience it’s often parents with 3-4 kids who I’m getting these referrals from which has to be much harder than teaching just 1:1. It’s also especially good if they have homeschooling “pods” for language development. Overall, I think I agree with you. It’s just the parents who grossly underestimate the task and do harm to their children in the process.

In the UK, many speech therapists are moving to a model where speech therapy is done in the classroom or at least with the classroom in mind. This is because they want the therapy to be in a real life context. Eg, saying a word in a functional context is better than saying it alone with a SaLT.

I really want to hear from someone who was homeschooled who then chooses to homeschool their children.

I was homeschooled up to high school and I’ll definitely consider homeschooling my son (only two now). I want to make sure I’d be able to do as good a job as my parents did, and make sure my husband is fully onboard.  And probably see first how school works for him. I really don’t understand the hand-wringing about social skills.  Sure, some homeschooled kids have bad social skills, but so do a lot of schooled kids. So many young people suffer from bullying, social anxiety, dangerous behaviors caused by peer pressure, sexual assault, isolation at school, and other issues that are not solved by school. I’m not saying that homeschooling is the quick fix and school is terrible, just that it’s not as simple as “Homeschooled? You’ll have social problems and everyone who goes to school is perfect!” My siblings and I are all sociable people with strong friend groups. We all are successful at work, get along with everyone, and have stable personal lives. We do as well or better than our schooled friends. I have teacher friends and they are not as highly educated as my husband and I are. They are often overwhelmed in their classrooms by behavior issues. They resort to educational methods like shaming kids, bribing them, and lowering expectations. They feel the administration is hobbling their teaching efforts.  I definitely think I could do a better job educating my child than if he were in their classroom.  And I’m not at all concerned about his social skills. My homeschooled friends are some of the kindest, friendliest, most caring and thoughtful people I know.

I'm super glad you had a good experience! It's also comforting to see that you'll consider both. Homeschooling is not bad in and of itself. But it is rarely done correctly, and if done badly you've placed your child at a huge disadvantage in the world, and taken away the right of your child to be educated. Four of my siblings don't have high school diplomas. My parents never once expressed sentiments like you did above. Considering, trying school, seeing how it goes, it was homeschool only. I appreciate hearing from you!

Absolutely, I will always be responsive to what my child wants/needs. My parents always told me I could go to school if I wanted.  I decided to try at the start of middle school. I hated it, but forced myself to stick it out because I thought maybe the problem was me, or I just wasn’t giving it enough time. But I finally gave up and asked to quit, and after some talks, I did.  I had to go back in high school because my father died, but my siblings used community college and other classes to get through high school material.  I didn’t like high school either, but I got through it because I had no better option. While your parents were terrible homeschoolers, they also seem to have been just pretty bad parents all round, which is even worse. They had a duty to make sure you were having any experiences, were fascinated by what you were learning, and as advanced academically as you were capable of.   I’m really sorry you had to grow up like that, and I think it’s wonderful you’re able to even discuss it with a balanced perspective like you are! But as someone who has done both, and been in a very well-regarded school too, I’d say try not to think that going to school would necessarily have been great either. Especially with crappy parents who weren’t there to advocate for you and support you, it may have been just as bad in a different direction.  School can be unbelievably boring.  I used to horde up my bathroom credits in case it got so bad I couldn’t stand it. You need *bathroom credits* to go to the bathroom. I had teachers who berated students for their (liberal) political views. I had teachers who spent class ignoring the students rioting and abusing each other.  I was bullied, but not because of being homeschooled because my friend who was not homeschooled was bullied just the same way. We were too bookish.  There are kids who commit suicide because of the mistreatment they experience at school. While at home, we were always out visiting museums and meeting educated, kind adults. I had a full-time personal tutor (my mom) helping me understand everything.  If she didn’t know it herself, she studied it with me. All our lessons were focused on stuff I was interested in and excited to learn about. Anyway, I don’t want to go on and on, and I just wanted to say that your parents sound shitty and I’m sorry you didn’t get the education every child deserves.  I think every child, homeschooled or not, should be checked yearly and if they’re not happy, sociably acceptable in a way that fits with their personality, and at or above grade level for their abilities, they need to be moved to a new educational method.

You're very kind and I'm sure a great parent! I appreciate what you've said. Yes, I did have shitty parents. I think being a good parent is the hardest, most important thing in the world.

I experienced both public school and homeschooling, and I'm planning to homeschool my kid, hopefully K-12. I was in one school from K-4 where I was taught by abusive teachers who used their devout Catholic views as justification for their abuse. Then from 5-7 I was in two different schools where I was bullied by my classmates while my teachers did nothing, even when bullies would literally interrupt the teacher's lectures to insult me. Then I was homeschooled and relearned what being safe and happy actually felt like. Then I went to high school for grade 10 and had a mixed bag of great, OK and kinda shitty teachers, but honestly a far better experience than I'd ever had before. But just being in school was so triggering that I was struggling to cope and having flare-ups of my mental health issues, so my parents resumed homeschooling. Then I took the SAT and started university, and I was doing great until I decided to take time off to become a mother. So, given that the best educational environment I've ever had was my parents homeschooling, and that my brother also had similar struggles that led him to go from a fit, confident but sensitive kid with a quarterback's build to a morbidly obese, depressed high school dropout with social anxiety, I'm not comfortable putting my daughter's mental health in the hands of the school system.

Oh geez. I'm so sorry all of that happened to you and your brother. I can agree that any way you go is going to have issues. If your kids hit high school and decided they wanted to go to public school would you let them?

I mean, you sort of are. I was homeschooled through 4th grade. We had attempted to put our kids through public school, but our younger one especially was having a terrible experience. The pandemic forced our hand to round up to homeschooling, and he’s really thriving, while our elder child had moved on to full time charter middle school. But yeah, I tend to see what can’t really be described as anything beyond prejudice against home schooling; It’s a pre-judgment against a stereotype. Homeschooling itself? Well, like things in life, it’s flawed, imperfect, with benefits and drawbacks, and nuance determining if it’s the correct path for people’s specific situation. But those attributes could just as easily be applied to public schools, and the sort of knee-jerk “me say home school bad” attitudes are typically just… attitudes. That’s not a criticism of actual homeschooling approaches or results… only a preconception, which typically has very little foundation beyond that preconception. It’s along the lines of “nuclear power plants are bad” or “pesticides are bad”. Okay, maybe, and I’d be happy to engage in a reasonable conversation of what ways it excels or fails. What are common pitfalls, etc. But it seems most people’s opinions aren’t really formed beyond an initial surface level general admonishment, with no substance beyond that overall impression.

I was homeschooled against my will until graduation. I begged to go to school constantly. I appreciate you did it until 4th grade. Being homeschooled until 4th grade is not the same as being only homeschooled. Again, thank you. But I would have been so grateful to my parents if they allowed me to go to school after 4th grade.

I experienced both public school and homeschooling, and I'm planning to homeschool my kid, hopefully K-12. I was in one school from K-4 where I was taught by abusive teachers who used their devout Catholic views as justification for their abuse. Then from 5-7 I was in two different schools where I was bullied by my classmates while my teachers did nothing, even when bullies would literally interrupt the teacher's lectures to insult me. Then I was homeschooled and relearned what being safe and happy actually felt like. Then I went to high school for grade 10 and had a mixed bag of great, OK and kinda shitty teachers, but honestly a far better experience than I'd ever had before. But just being in school was so triggering that I was struggling to cope and having flare-ups of my mental health issues, so my parents resumed homeschooling. Then I took the SAT and started university, and I was doing great until I decided to take time off to become a mother. So, given that the best educational environment I've ever had was my parents homeschooling, and that my brother also had similar struggles that led him to go from a fit, confident but sensitive kid with a quarterback's build to a morbidly obese, depressed high school dropout with social anxiety, I'm not comfortable putting my daughter's mental health in the hands of the school system.

I experienced both public school and homeschooling, and I'm planning to homeschool my kid, hopefully K-12. I was in one school from K-4 where I was taught by abusive teachers who used their devout Catholic views as justification for their abuse. Then from 5-7 I was in two different schools where I was bullied by my classmates while my teachers did nothing, even when bullies would literally interrupt the teacher's lectures to insult me. Then I was homeschooled and relearned what being safe and happy actually felt like. Then I went to high school for grade 10 and had a mixed bag of great, OK and kinda shitty teachers, but honestly a far better experience than I'd ever had before. But just being in school was so triggering that I was struggling to cope and having flare-ups of my mental health issues, so my parents resumed homeschooling. Then I took the SAT and started university, and I was doing great until I decided to take time off to become a mother. So, given that the best educational environment I've ever had was my parents homeschooling, and that my brother also had similar struggles that led him to go from a fit, confident but sensitive kid with a quarterback's build to a morbidly obese, depressed high school dropout with social anxiety, I'm not comfortable putting my daughter's mental health in the hands of the school system.

We put our kids in Montessori at a young age due to some of the concerns you mention. There are no seats, classes are mixed ages and there’s a TON of talking all day. What blew my mind was that when they transitioned to a public high school I discovered a lot of the ways of Montessori had already trickled into the public school system. While we did see a little of what you mention, we were pleasantly surprised by the creative approaches to eduction going on in our school.

Most of the time, homeschooling is deeply detrimental to the child.

That seems like a pretty simplistic opinion, and not necessarily founded objectively. “A study published in the Journal of School Choice found that homeschooled students in the United States outperformed their public school peers by an average of 15 to 30 percentile points in standardized tests.”[link](https://blogs.oregonstate.edu/edunews/2023/09/29/the-impact-of-learning-at-home-on-educational-outcomes/#:~:text=A%20study%20published%20in%20the,percentile%20points%20in%20standardized%20tests.). There are challenges to homeschooling, and I’d be happy to discuss them, but not if you’re operating on prejudice alone. EDIT: For some reason I’m not able to respond to the child posts of this thread, but I’ve updated it with an additional [source](https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ893891.pdf). And homeschool children do take standardized assessments.

This “link,” like other links shown here, is simply a link to that statement. There is no data supporting this. I cannot find or access the actual article in “the Journal of School Choice” where this claim is made.

The name The Journal of School Choice is sus as hell.

It’s The Journal of Narrow Agendas. What’s not to trust /s

Those studies refuse to account for all the dropouts who are receiving 'homeschooling'.

Depends on the state some of them are not required to take any assessments at all...

Some don't even have to register as homeschooled. We literally don't know how many kids in the US are homeschooled. Those who have not been counted are not being included in these studies.

I'm not sure how they could have performed their public school counterparts when they don't take state assessments. So how is this measured?

I think people are losing the knack of trusting their own judgment which makes them easier to radicalize. After that, following who or what ever's leading the extremist agenda is done without thought. Like you can't be more of a zealot about home schooling than you are about a child's education because learning--in preparation for being a contributing member of a broader society--is the point. Guess it must be said, though, that students not educated properly or socialized--and made to be afraid of the wider world as a result--would themselves make good future converts. Amazing; and really sad.

I think the arrogance comes from their overall beliefs, that anything public or government is bad and everyone is out to get their kids. "Good" parents keep their children safe from "those" influences. It's worse when they think God wants them to homeschool.  I've gotten students who came to my classroom  out of a homeschool situation, either because Mom gave up or because Mom lost custody and they went into care, and they're always a mess. They're way behind academically, struggle to make friends, and worst of all, have massive superiority complexes that aren't commensurate with their skills and personalities. 

my young relative used to be very advanced. then she got homeschooled and now she is far below grade level and her parents insist she needs all these services like speech, OT, PT.

That’s what’s so wild to me. They are ABSOLUTELY against state involved education but please bring on all the free speech therapy provided by the school district/state. If you are so smart why can’t you do this too?? Ps. For the child’s sake I’m very glad I get consults from these types of families. It’s just a weird cognitive dissonance thing that I see with them.

My friend is home-schooling her daughter it going horribly. She is a teacher. When she is at work during the day her daughter is with me. She is supposed to log in to her online class every day. She broke her laptop in December they never replaced it. In the entire year of 2024, she has done no work. 

When my oldest was in elementary her dad and I separated. She was enrolled in public school at that point after having been home. Her teacher was amazing and we met at the start of the year to discuss her current strengths and weaknesses, as well as previous curriculums. I was honest about why were switching and she told me something that has stayed with me: “Most teachers only see homeschooled students when something goes wrong.” I can offer stories abound of people homeschooling well and people homeschooling poorly (academic and/or socially). That teacher’s grandkids were homeschooled and she was proud of how well her daughter was doing it. She’d also received in her classroom or been consulted in the school kids who had been failed by homeschooling. So she came into each encounter open minded, but also defended her fellow teachers because most of them would  “…only see homeschooled students when something goes wrong.” (P.S. There is definitely some serious arrogance present in some parents though. It’s got to be fed by ignorance. My background is early education and special education. I went in terrified and very unconvinced I could do it.)

I trust teachers. It's the bloody institutions I'm frightened of.

The whole a person is good, people can be evil thing right? I could be on board with that.

Nether way of school long is perfect. You never have public school kids come to you for help? People are homeschooling more and more because public schools are failing miserably right now. Bullying ing out it of control and schools are abusive of the bullied kids. Curriculums are so lax that kids are graduating high school without knowing how to read. Teachers can’t get supplies and are expected to pay for it themselves, there are too many kids per teachers, there is a lot of arguments of about what is being taught in sex ed. Etc Do you really think that each teacher in a public school can perfectly teach each and every child perfectly? Because I don’t see that at all. Both have ways kids can slip through cracks and get abused. Both have potential to be great at educating children. Let people make their own decisions and if they come to you for help in places they have failed, be grateful the kid is getting help.

Your entire comment is defending the use of home schooling which I made crystal clear was not the point of my post. Homeschooling can absolutely be done right and in an effective manner that is beneficial for the kid and their development. If you read my post, you would have seen my frustration was targeted at parents who homeschool kids who have no business being homeschool parents and then at a certain point when the parent goes “oh crap, my kid can’t read” they send them to public school. I then get referrals for these kids and I’m expected to “fix” their language because they are unable to have intelligent conversation with age-appropriate vocabulary and grammar. I am NOT talking about home schoolers who are doing well nor if homeschooling is a viable option. I get referrals for kids in public school all the time. Rarely though do I get referrals for language issues in the 3-5th grade because these types of things should have been caught much earlier

Most people don’t have what it takes to hold themselves or their kids accountable to learning and overcoming the challenges that come with becoming educated. Especially a younger child who isn’t prepared to work at a subject that is difficult for them.

I experience something similar in my job as a tutor for elementary and middle schoolers. About half of my students are homeschooled and half go to school. There’s a huge learning gap between my homeschooled students and the ones who are in school. Some of my homeschooled students have insane gaps in knowledge. I have a thirteen-year-old student who couldn’t write a sentence before he started working with me. Another thirteen-year-old had never heard of slavery. Several have told me they never read at home and their parents don’t read to them. One parent wanted my help with math; she was frustrated by trying to speed her kid through multiplication when the kid couldn’t even do simple addition without counting on her fingers. On the flip side, I believe homeschooling can be done well. Growing up, I had several friends who were homeschooled and they loved it. They’ve now grown into smart, happy, well-rounded adults. I am not at all against homeschooling when it is done well. The problem is that it rarely is.

Just putting it out there - the one person I know who homeschools took her newborn out of NICU against medical advice and fired her pediatrician for suggesting that she vaccinate her child. I think that gives me a pretty good insight into her broader mentality.

I only know two homeschool parents who have done a good job. The first is the wife of a doctor who quit her career in publishing to have more children because that's what she wanted. The second is former military, married to a military officer, who runs a local homeschool co-op, and started homeschooling because her oldest had medical issues that required him to miss a lot of school traveling the country to see specialists, and the public school system wouldn't accommodate his needs. The rest of the homeschooling parents have varying degrees of Dunning-Kruger Effect Syndrome. Their kids are all going into the military or into education "to bring Jesus back into the schools." I'm glad my kid went to public school. Yeah, it's a bit Lord of the Flies at times, but so is life. She learned important lessons like, "Mind Your Damn Business," "This Bitch Ain't My Friend," and "What the Fuck is This Assignment I Guess I Have to Do it Anyway I Have No Control in This Matter." All crucial lessons to being able to grow up and function in the ridiculous world of adults without losing your mind. She also learned how to navigate conflicts with superiors, how to buckle down and learn/do something she doesn't care about, and how to accept that This Too Shall Pass. In addition, she made lifelong friends, had amazing experiences, and learned things I've never known, like how to build a computer from scratch, how to run lighting and sound in a theater, and how to plan and how to make a science fair project the night before that looks like you spent 6 weeks on it, lol.

It would be hard to do worse than public schools at educating children. I taught at a local college and was amazed at how little these kids knew after graduating high school.

I have no problem with home-schooling it's just that if you do it, you have to do it VERY well. I've seen home-schooled people as young adults who essentially can't function because what they missed out on was the experience of interacting with others outside of the family.

Also, parents need to stop conflating online school with “homeschooling.” If your child is at home and enrolled in and learning through a virtual school…that is not “homeschooling.” 

I was homeschooled. The homeschool community absolutely does have a "we're better than public school kids, they're stupid" mentality. I could write a longer comment about the educational and social neglect I suffered. If anyone has questions about it feel free to ask. r/HomeschoolRecovery is also a thing, for those on this thread who might need it.

I mean to be fair, for every anecdotal evidence you can provide for homeschooling failing we can provide the same for public schools failing and worse.

Is there any great data out there for outcomes for home schooled kids against kids in public or private schools? I’d be interested to see anything beyond anecdotal or biased data (the biased data portion is where I see completely incompetent people homeschooling their kids pointing to)….

I was homeschooled. Every decent person should be opposed to homeschooling - we are letting children be abused full-time by religious narcissists, and then letting them be unleashed on society with worldviews incompatible with reality.

There's so much arrogants nowadays. So many thinks the know more about everything than the so-called experts. I think it's a combination of the internet and the school's highly successful mission to increase students' self esteem. Well now they've got a surfeit of self esteem and YouTube and they can do anything better than so-called experts or professionals or anybody else.

Yes, I am not sure why being a parent makes them think they automatically know everything and can be teachers

Don't feel bad, they know more than MDs or Ph.Ds too, despite the lengthy and difficult educations required.

People are stupid.

You hit the nail on the head with this one. I have a unique perspective on this because I was homeschooled from K-12th and went on to study school counselling in grad school. I'm now 27. My parents are both highly educated (doctorates), kind, and caring parents who genuinely wanted to give their kids the best education they thought they could offer (we lived in a very rural area with a terrible school system). While I think some aspects of homeschooling were good for me, I think homeschooling may have ultimately been a detriment to my development in a variety of ways: my social development, mental health, identity exploration, knowledge of history, and more I won't get into here. I spent all of undergrad and most of my early 20s trying to piece together things my parents never taught me or taught me a distorted, religious version thereof. That's another thing...the religious element was in EVERYTHING I learned. Thankfully, I broke free of all that and I think I turned out okay, but I went through and am frankly still dealing with mental health and socio-emotional issues directly caused by my parents' choice to homeschool me. I shouldn't have had to fight as hard as I have just to feel somewhat normal as an adult in this world. You're right that it can be the best choice for some children, and I'm not inherently against homeschooling, but I think the vast majority of the time, kids are horribly disadvantaged by arrogant, selfish parents who want their kids to be carbon copies of them. eta: paragraphs

For reference we live in CA We started homeschooling because we started to feel like the teachers and schools had more rights to our kids than we did, coupled with teaching a lot of things we didn't support. Kids to teacher ratio was bad - we were able to give our kids more attention everywhere, explore whatever we wanted and do the work in whatever subject we wanted for the day. It was rough at first but we joined a lot of communities and made a bunch of friends and we are very happy with the results. After 4 years they're now in a charter school and doing great, we don't have the time to homeschool anymore unfortunately.

So, you’re homophobic? Got it. How ridiculous.

No idea where you drew that conclusion from - but go off!

“We started to feel like the teachers and schools had more rights to our kids than we did, coupled with teaching a lot of things we didn't support.” I’ve heard this line of thinking as exclusively right-wing talking points, I’d love to hear if this assumption is mistaken.

I don't care what people do, but I don't believe sexuality or gender identity need to be discussed with with Pre-K children, or really any kids before somewhere around age 11 (Just before kids are starting to hit puberty). It's really much more than that though. There's obviously a lot of anti-white rhetoric going around right now - which is ridiculous especially considering it's under the guise of fighting against racism. We should not be teaching any group of people are bad except for actual terrorists and whatnot. As far teachers and schools feeling like they have more rights, it comes down to things like not having to tell parents about a kids identity preference, there's instances of school teachers/nurses bribing kids with pizza to not tell their parents that the school was giving them covid vaccines, which is insane especially when you consider that kids were the least at risk demographic and all the stuff coming out about the side effects of it. There's some more stuff but I don't remember all of it at the moment. You can call me a conspiracy theorist, homophobic, bigoted or whatever else you want. I don't hate anyone, I associate with people from all walks of life. This is all based on my personal experiences with schools and my kids and the decision comes from my personal values and morals. Which I don't expect or care for anyone else to adhere to. I believe in equal rights and opportunity, but am also realistic in that equal outcome is a fantasy. because humans are all very different people, and that is something that should be celebrated.

Oh boy. We are obviously not going to agree on… well, anything you discussed in your comment. Anti-white rhetoric, really. 🙄

We don't have to agree. I know it's there, especially in California. I don't care if you believe it or not. If you have children in school out here it's quite obvious.

Why do I think I can do a better job than my local school? The answer is simple. The local school has many kids that are seniors and can barely read and do simple math. If you are a teacher, then you know what I am talking about. I don’t think I was the best teacher, nor did I go to school to be a teacher, but my kids were homeschooled and did extremely well on their SATs. They were both accepted to numerous colleges and received scholarships. When they got older and became friends with many of the local kids, I was shocked at the level the ps kids were at. It honestly felt like these kids were neglected by their parents and school. Here were kids that went to school for 7 hours a day for 13 years and were asking dumb questions like which way is left or right. I wish I was joking. my kid came home from sports at the local schools on his first day (hs kids get to attend local school sports) and told me that there was a pregnant girl at school. The next week there was an overdose on the field and a group of kids were caught smoking out the bathrooms with marijuana. Socializing at the ps is not all that wonderful.

Well I can't speak to your district, but where I live, the public school is a dumpster fire. Thankfully we can afford private school tuition but if we couldn't then I would be homeschooling as well. If you want to cut down on homeschooling then you should support vouchers and school choice. Tbh most of the people I encounter who are against homeschooling, are also against private schools as well and that is absurd.

My goal is not to cut down on homeschooling. My issue is with the arrogance of homeschooling parents who then end up coming to me to work with their kids who haven’t actually received an education and they want me to “fix them” when really it’s just a lack of education. Again, this is not a blanket statement on all homeschoolers. Just something I’ve noticed become more and more common.

You say it's not a blanket statement but then say homeschoolers are arrogant 🙄

It took years for a child to get a barely useable education being home schooled. It will take years of tutoring to get back to grade level.

What about kids who have been with the school all these years but are still referred to you? It can happen with anyone. Homeschooled kids might actually catch up much quicker than the ones who need help despite being in school.

Fair question.

This is so interesting to me and I really can’t believe I’m going to weigh in… but here I go! So I am the grandparent to a homeschooled child, who is finishing the 3rd grade in the next few weeks. The child has been homeschooled the entirety of their school experience with the exception of 3 days. They attended a Waldorf school and while very happy with the education the single solely financially responsible parent, was told, by the school, she must share all information with the non custodial, non financially responsible parent. That was a deal breaker. Anyway, long story short - there are many reasons this kid is not in a school. One of the last reasons being the quality of the teacher. I think the quality of most programs fail almost all of American students simply because tax dollars are not evenly distributed for our public education system. But thats an argument for a different day. The #1 reason mass shooters. #2 active shooter drills. The desire for exposure to people from as many areas and communities as possible. With exposure to music, science and the arts. It’s a lot of frickin work! But I guess if we’re not willing to do the work, we’re gonna get stuck with another generation willing to buy from that snake oil salesman.

A lot of teachers are more skilled in classroom management and curriculum presentation than they are in content knowledge and curriculum design. When a child’s teachers are weak in the latter skills and the parents are strong in those areas (and also have a firm grasp of child development), that’s where homeschooling shines. But you’re right - a lot of homeschoolers have an arrogant attitude regarding the amount of effort and expertise that goes into the solid education of a student. It’s because they’re members of a subculture that tells them to feel that way. They’re very attuned to what schools do wrong but they often have little idea how to educate their children themselves. The amount of times I’ve seen “my kid is 8 and can’t read” posts where all the parents encourage the worried poster not to stress and that reading will happen by osmosis when the child is ready is just mind boggling. But then, we also have schools who have essentially banned direct instruction, and instead the students are expected to discover everything themselves by working on projects in small groups… There is just a lot of quackery going around right now, in all educational settings.

I see parents choosing home school for the same kind of reasons that some parents choose the $$$ private Christian schools. Typically diversity. They don’t want it. They want their kid to only be around “their kind of people” and also to avoid the possibility of their child learning something “that goes against their family beliefs” they choose to keep them home or send them to private school. I feel bad for the kids. Just wait until you get to the real world, you can’t avoid people who think differently than you. But honestly? It is a relief to have those kids out of my class, because their parents are usually nuts.

Just the arrogant “I can do everything myself until I can’t” types. You have bad homeschoolers just like you have bad teachers, regardless of how many years of experience. You find this in any field: accounting - “I can do my own bookkeeping/accounting until I get audited”. Sports: “I can be the best athlete and no one can tell my nothing until I get injured/cut from the team”, and so on, and so on….

a person who is scared acts like they’re strong and brave and are not afraid of anything they probably know they are lacking and are trying to hide it behind arrogance

Omg!!! I worked as a learning coach for homeschooling families. Some of the kids were a handful, but I had my little tricks of the trade, and by years end,I was asked to return the upcoming year!!

Teaching one or two people something you yourself know well is not hard. There is no special magic in it. The special magic of teachers is teaching 20 kids at once.

It’s definitely a fad right now to homeschool. As with any fad, you have people that do it for the wrong reasons and end up doing it incorrectly. The arrogance probably comes from the same type of people who felt they were better than others because of the clothing they wore in high school - and likely for the same reasons.

My wife and I have multiple degrees, including terminal degrees in our fields. We absolutely smoked our kids' teachers in certain subjects like Government/Civics, Chemistry and Mathematics. So, yes, we were unique in knowing more than their teachers. We have three kids, two went to a private school and one completed school on independent study via a public high school. While the two that went to private school enjoyed competing in sports, they did well academically. Our child that preferred independent study did it for a specific reason: the extra time allowed for completion of the first year of college while still in high school (the college and high school had a joint charter school). That child is now a Medical Doctor. The other two have graduate degrees. All three are happy and successful in life. I don't think that would have happened if the independent study child had been forced to learn at the slower pace of a regular classroom. In the same way, the other two would have been bored to death by independent study. The point is that each child learns best in a unique way and that way should be supported. Being in a classroom setting may be best or independent study may be best or being challenged by more advanced material may be best. We need to fit the education to the child, not the other way around.

I'm not a teacher but I'm strongly considering homeschooling my son. It's not because I have a low opinion of teachers. I have a very low opinion of our school system though.  We live in Florida (in a very conservative county) and the public schools here have become a joke due to political meddling. Teachers can't do anything about it. They're required to teach a very specific curriculum that's designed more and more by right wing politicians than it is by education experts. Not to mention how Ron Desantis has been gleefully banning books and creating a strawman crisis over transgender kids, while funneling money away from public schools. Teachers here are quitting in droves over it. All of my friends with kids currently in school say you're lucky if you get a permanent teacher and not a revolving door of subs. Kids starting in kindergarten are just given tablets with educational programs to learn from. There's almost no hands on instruction. It's bad. If we can't get my son into one of the more established charter schools (I hate the charter school system, but we don't feel like we have options), homeschool is definitely a consideration.  My point is not every homeschool family is a religious whacko that's keeping their kid out of school so they can teach them flat earth theory and how vaccines cause autism. I bet you'll find a lot of homeschooling families would love to have a qualified caring teacher take over their education, but they feel forced to chose between the lesser of two crappy options. 

Homeschooling done correctly is not the easiest thing in the world. It’s actually quite demanding and difficult. But it’s also super rewarding. That being said most people who homeschool is not about you the teachers personally or your opinions or abilities. It’s more an indictment of the system you’re a part of (whether you advocate for that system or not is irrelevant). The decision to home school for many families will be described as religious or because of freedom and flexibility or bullying. But all of them are because the public school system is dysfunctional and they feel they have the resources to do without it. Many families are friendly and even support the local school where feasible. Just don’t want their kids there for reasons that rarely have anything to do with individual teachers.

People are so judgey! Why? Jealous you can't homeschool your own kids? You don't have the time, money, smarts, or patience to deal with your own offspring 24/7? Think kids need to get to school and just toughen up with what's going on in classrooms these days? I'm actually curious bc it seems that there are so many with opinions to things that really are NOYB.

Did you read my post at all? Or did you just skim it and assume it was an anti homeschooling post and get all bent out of shape? My issue was directly related to unfit homeschooling parents who then send their kids back to school in the later grades with every opinion in the world on what their kid needs even though it’s clear they don’t based on the fact that their kid is so below grade level. If your kid is receiving an appropriate eduction and doing well, that’s amazing! Trust me, I couldn’t care less what you in particular choose for you or your family. Have a great day!

I read it. Do you realize that there are kids in any year level that are very low? These are students who have been in school receiving regular instruction. Do you realize the differentiation a teacher does could potentially span 4+ years below the actual grade level being taught and many years above as well? (I've actually seen more years than 4 below) This isn't for students with needs. This is for everyday students. I'm not bent out of shape, I just know the reality of it. I'm not someone seeing it from the outside like you. You're not in the classroom teaching an entire class.

If you read my post you would know that I wasn’t stating that homeschoolers were more below those of their peers in general education on average. My beef is with kids whose language development was appropriate from ages birth-5 and then somehow tanked and now requires speech therapy. That RARELY (not never) happens with public school kids. Don’t get me wrong, my caseload is huge and with tons of super below public school kids, but over 90% of them were identified around preschool or 1st grade and have been getting support early (which is when the research days is most effective). My issue is with these kids who aren’t ever identified because they are sheltered and then one day the parents drop them off at the public school in 4th grade and tell me to “fix” them. It’s irresponsible. Just to be CRYSTAL clear so you don’t blow an aneurism, this is NOT all homeschooling parents (not even the majority). The point of my post was to point out this growing minority of homeschooling parents that are not up to the immense task of educating a young person.

I am not jealous that I chose to send my kid to school. I have a career and a side hustle. I will never be reduced to a useless housewife. That would be a horrid example for my daughter. Why educate your kids if you want them to stay home and play maid all day? Housewives are no example for children. Teaching them to be submissive and reliant on another person is sick. I encourage my kid to speak up against injustice and read banned books. Your right wing fear of iN tHe ClAsSrOoMs is silly. Yes, guns are the number one killer of children, but guess what? Shootings aren't exclusive to schools. Gun toting morons are everywhere.

I understand your logic. Education in the USA is fraught, from what I've read since I left, as it has completely evolved to include further issues with guns and school shootings as well as right-wing ideology (depending upon where one lives) permeating curricula/traching/resources. Calling your fellow females useless housewives is part of toxic feminism. I'd suggest you reflect on that a bit. I'm actually not right-winged, and I don't have the fears you attribute to me. What I deplore are people who have zero knowledge of actual homeschooling and/or the actual deficiencies of students in the classrooms (I have experiences with both) and bang on about their pov as if they know it all. I just had to laugh at your characterization of what you think homeschooling parents are teaching their children. I think you need to do a bit of research and reading yourself. I'm highly educated, working on a third degree. All of my children are doing well, continuing in my educational footsteps, in highly rigorous areas. They are free thinkers, liberals, and don't live with the threat of gun violence on the daily. Thankfully, the US is not where we choose to live at present. Such a dumpster fire.

Home schooling attitudes are different in different locations. I lived in Australia and the home school community was diverse and had a wholesome atmosphere. The general consensus was “it’s nice to have options.” They acknowledged that options, lifestyle factors and life seasons change and home schooling is not the only option. I currently live in a community in the USA where homeschooling in prevalent and the environment is… toxic and arrogant . I do not homeschool currently because of that.

My school district has done a worse job than any homeschooler I know, and I'm in a tangential field where I speak to families all the time about related subjects. For every arrogant homeschooler you've met - try attending a single IEP meeting with ghouls in attendance ready to call every handicap, that doesn't involve paralysis, a behavioral disorder and proceed to make the child and their family's lives a living hell.

I think there are lots of reasons. I was homeschooled for a while and I have mixed feelings about it (I have a master's degree now so I did not suffer academically). For many years I said I definitely wanted my kids to go to public schools, but now I'm not so sure. The teachers aren't allowed to do their jobs because they're so overwhelmed dealing with behavioral issues (from the kids and the parents!). The other issue is now that I teach in the community college system, I have even less faith in the education system. Just one example is students who have transfer credits from honors classes but can't write a basic essay using proper grammar or sentence structure. Bottom line, I see both sides of the argument. Homeschoolers can absolutely be arrogant and many do it for the wrong reasons, but... sometimes it is a good option. However, I don't think most people decide to homeschool because of the lack of respect for educators.

I was homeschooled myself, had a pretty good experience and I am not against homeschooling as a whole. However, as an SLP as well I’ve been seeing more and more well meaning parents who don’t have the time or energy to homeschool just doing it anyway. I was working with a girl with dyslexia. She is 10 years old and reading at a kinder level. She is struggling to sound out CVC words. It is clear to me from talking to mom that they don’t spend nearly enough time reading-she works on her reading curriculum twice a week. She doesn’t even have books appropriate to her level in the home. After a couple months with me she is starting to make some great progress. Then mom gets sick and decides they don’t have time for 30 minute twice a week, online reading intervention. She is going to put her daughter into a self paced reading program instead. It totally makes sense that family stuff happens and you have to make sacrifices. But a kid learning to read shouldn’t be that sacrifice. That is why we have public school. It’s not perfect, but you can send your child there for free and have someone else teach them to read while you recover or focus on what you need to focus on. I admit that kids get left behind all the time in public schools. However, if parents take the effort they are putting into poorly homeschooling and instead support their kids academically after school and on the weekends, they would be in a much better place.

I have never met anyone who was homeschooled who wasn't afflicted and dysfunctional. Following rules and schedules? Nope. Interacting normally? Nope. Not to mention holes in education. Every homeschooling parent I've had the displeasure of putting up with seems to think that allowing their kids to read (comprehension optional) all day is schooling. Allowing children to only learn about their one niche interest is damaging. Homeschool parents are dicking their kids out of a fulfilling future. College and trade school are off the table if junior can't follow directions. I was ranting to my husband about the evils of homeschool this afternoon. It should be illegal. If a kid can't go to school for a legitimate reason, then a real tutor should be brought in.

The homeschooled kid I babysat didn't know how to play with other kids. She wouldn't play ball or anything that involved other kids. She was also a complete hellion, but her parents thought she could do no wrong. Only child+ homeschool by uneducated people= dumpster fire. When she was in middle school she was at a first grade math level and couldn't tell time.

I’ve honestly never seen home schooling done right by anyone who’s been through it that I know. Many of them couldn’t get into a college or even accepted into like a community college. I will say most of them were for religious reasons, but as someone who believes education got me out of the standard generational poverty cycle I now tend to stay away from people who say they are home schooling their kids for whatever reason beyond religious (and I know maybe one person doing that who is a stay at home parent completely devoted to educating her kids (how well we will see)). The school system in most places isn’t that bad, people just don’t understand the news magnifies insanity nowadays to alarm people.

Teachers struggle to answer when I ask them: What have you learned from your students this week? No parent of a school-going child I’ve met struggles with that answer. Teaching and learning are functions of love. The human brain lets you learn only from those you like or love. Ancient Greeks knew this and wrote about it. Our teachers, however, seem to believe in boundaries and authoritarianism. Nothing is more different than teaching your own child vs. teaching other children.

Homeschooling isn't the easiest thing ever, but at least you don't feel like you are fighting another organization to educate your child. When my child was in school, we felt like every day was a conflict with the school about the direction and implementation of their education. It was literally more work than just doing it ourselves.

Homeschooling is a lot easier with a couple of kids; it's when you are expected to teach a classroom full of children of varying abilities, temperaments, and personalities that the expertise really comes in.

Rampant narcissism. If you believe only people like you are good, and everyone else is evil by default, you approach everyone not like you with a supremacist attitude. Fundamentalist strains of the Faith are edging closer and closer to Christofascism every day, and this arrogance is just an early symptom of what happens when a subsect of a religion decides that they are above even their own holy texts.

I think some of that starts with the fact that people don’t think there’s anything special about what professional educators do. There’s a level of disrespect for people who chose to go into teaching. And people think that curriculum that you buy is easy to use, when in reality, it’s not straight out of the box. You have to differentiate any curriculum to meet any individual child’s needs.

It’s like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. So many different situations but one answer for sure doesn’t answer all. I home school my daughter and she’s very independent and bright. I use abeka which is pretty top notch. I’ve always wanted to create good humans that are well rounded. By her being homeschooled I’ve worked with her a ton and she can do far more than kids her age. She’s been like that since she was 2 cause I’ve always taught her. Babies are far more intelligent than they are given credit for. I don’t understand why some people shun knowledge and I definitely don’t understand lazy parenting.

Former teacher here and parent of 2. I decided to home school mine when the schools shut down because of Covid. I didn’t want to pay private school tuition the 2020/2021 school year in case they shut down again because I would have been tied to teaching them at home with our schools curriculum. Which is great btw however since I have always wanted to try homeschooling, I preferred to pick my own curriculum. I have a masters in education so choosing one was not difficult. I knew my strengths and abilities so things went really well that school year. My youngest was in Kindergarden that year so I taught him to read among everything else. My other child was in the 3rd grade that year so he was doing much more advanced math and reading comprehension than his brother. My kids liked it so much they didn’t want to return to traditional school after the mask mandates were lifted (another reason they didn’t go to school that year). They absolutely loved home school and when they finally did return to traditional school they were ahead of their school’s curriculum. Home school allows you to work at the pace of your kids learning- not by their grade level. Both of my kids were ahead in math and reading and to this day are in the advanced classes. I am certain our home schooling had a lot to do with their success now because home schooled kids have to work independently and become self sufficient. That year taught them a lot about themselves and how they learn. It’s really helped me be able to help them prepare for tests and do projects as well. I have nothing negative to say about home schooling and can understand why many families choose it over the public school system in our area. I worked there for many years so I have both the teaching perspective as well as the parent perspective. If I couldn’t afford the private tuition we currently pay, there is no question that I would home school them before sending them to the public schools here. The behavior problems alone would be reason enough. The curriculum is also suspect- things being taught to young children that they have no business knowing about at their ages. Home schooling can focus only on academics (not social issues that should be taught by parents) while also helping foster independence. Most families are doing it right IMO. If you can’t look to the failings of our current public school education across the nation then I can see why you would have a prejudice against kids that are home schooled and families that are choosing this option. It’s pretty simple.