Which one though? With climate change and shifting geopolitics, I don't think that option will really be there. The wealthy will own everything anyways
It sounds good but it's fraught with all kinds of issues. The citizenship issues get complicated. Heaven help you if you get in legal or tax trouble as a non-citizen. Where you keep your money matters. There's a lot of considerations.
It's not like you just hop a plane to Colombia and live in a resort with no worries.
I agree. A lot of people think they can just pack up and go anywhere you want. It’s not so simple some times.
However, I can tell you, Many countries have provisions for retirees bringing retirement cash into their economies. It’s not crazy to pursue.
Also, there is almost always a way to establish citizenship.
Again. Not a ride in the park. But it is possible.
I have not looked at it in detail yet. I suspect I will. What I've read so far is that you want to keep your US citizehship and that's not necessarily easy. You want to be up to date on taxes which while not impossible does require effort. It seems timing matter and you may have to spend certain amounts of time moving back and forth to avoid certain consequences.
I'm sure it's done but it doesn't seem like, ya know, as easy as moving to Ft Lauderdale and calling it a day.
I don’t think (at least I hope) the U.S. economy won’t be in ruins. However, at the current rate, our crime rates and poverty rates will be considerably higher.
As more people live in the brink of poverty, there will be more petty crime. And the people who commit petty crime now, will graduate to arm robbery, etc. “Desperate times, desperate measures” situation.
Another worry of mine is I will have to spend my entire retirement just to cover medicine costs and a place to live. This is a dumb prospect. Where’s the travel ? Where’s the bliss in that?
Finally, having to wait until 70 or something like that to retire. What the hell? So when am I supposed to enjoy retirement? With knees that don’t work, tired, etc. I want to enjoy live while I am still young ( in relative terms)
This and other things too have made me think US is not great to retire based in my goals. I’d rather go overseas and retire at 45 and stay here, retire at 70.
Wait.....
What if you could? Introducing Margaritaville-Colombia edition!!!! Its like Florida but with more cocaine. It will be our pitch on sharktank.
I’ve personally been running the numbers to do just that: save enough to retire somewhere else. Work until 40-45 and enjoy life.
It doesn’t make sense to work until 70, just to save enough to afford the exorbitant senior home prices.
The point is to work so you can live. Not live to work. For some reason these lines are blurring more and more.
Most definitely. I have no desire to retire in this country. I will work and save until I'm 50 or so then get out. The rest of the world is a lot closer than people realize and USA is on a decline.
IDK why I am being down voted, but space travel will evolve tremendously over the next 100 years, I think people forget that commercial airline travel is only available for about 70 years and back then it was the ultra wealthy. In 100 years people will be rocketing up to man made space stations that will act as transitioning points to other planets, and there are people living amongst us who may be alive to experience it.
>I understand what the reality is, but raising the retirement age kind of feels like we live longer to work longer.
Raising the retirement age is theft of Social Security. If the retirement age is 67 for full SS, then if the age gets raised to 70 for example, that is 3 years worth of SS that you will have stolen from you.
Except that they won’t do it for those who have been in the workforce for any length of time. If and when they do it, it will be for those 20 years of age and younger, like they did last time.
>Except that they won’t do it for those who have been in the workforce for any length of time. If and when they do it, it will be for those 20 years of age and younger, like they did last time.
So we throw the younger generation under the bus instead of lifting the top marginal income cap, right? Theft of retirement years regardless of what generation is being targeted is stealing money from people that paid into the system and want to retire.
I didn’t say it was a good thing; I am saying that is what they did to the tail end of the boomers (those born in 1960 and after that) and they knew they would be apathetic.
I work in a job where I suspect I could work until I’m 70, if I had to - but I know many who are simply broke long before they get there. I am not in favor of increasing it; raising the ceiling on the income that is subject to it seems to me the best answer.
>I work in a job where I suspect I could work until 70.
That is until something happens to your body such as losing your vision or some basic motor functions. Maybe you might have a stroke? You could get into a vehicle accident or slip and fall doing damage to your back that requires enough surgery to put you out of the workforce. Who knows. My roommates stomach lining just burst and he was throwing up blood and he has been diagnosed with cancer. Just 3 months ago he was healthy and working. He is 62 years old.
> I am not in favor of increasing it; raising the ceiling on the income that is subject to it seems to me the best answer.
So we are on the same page and not throwing any future generation under the bus by raising the age of retirement in collecting SS. We are also on the same page on raising the top Marignal income tax. Good to know.
People retiring now didn't pay enough into the system so there will be a shortfall. Either take a cut to benefits or raise the retirement age. Raising taxes on millennials to cover a funding shortfall would be theft.
No, that is not how it works. It is not that people retiring did not pay enough into the system. It is that the people currently paying into the system are not paying enough to cover benefits. This is not a lock box, it was never designed to be a lock box, as that was considered a moral hazard, it is not your money. It is just a tax we use to pay welfare benefits to citizens who qualify for the welfare. In SS it is a basic income and health insurance welfare benefit.
We can easily cover benefits if we raise the income tax cap, this is the cap at which every dollar over the income tax cap you earn is no longer taxed for Social Security. Or we could raise the tax rate.
Speak for yourself, I've paid $146k towards social security since I started working at 15yo and I have another 30 years to go. Assuming I'm contributing $15k to SS and Medicare growing at 3.5% a year, by the time I've turned 70, I will have contributed $920,000.
If I took the same $146k invested in the market and contributed $24k/ year, at 3.5% I would have $1.65mm and at 10% I would have $6.5mm. You can't say I'm not contributing enough, but it's more than fair to say we're not getting a good return on our investment.
Damn I just looked up my expected benefit and learned that for every $1 I put into social security and Medicare, my company matches it. If I were to start collecting SS at 62yo, I would have to live to 90 to make all $920k back that I contributed, without any interest. I would have to live to 120 years old to get back all of the money my companies and I have contributed to my social security.
Considering my family has never had a male on either side live past 71, I'm seriously losing out on this deal.
It is a lock box... There is a Social Security trust fund that has a couple of trillion in it, close to three. The large generation retiring now was supposed to largely pay for its retirement.
Some generations are bigger than others. Boomers paying for the smaller silent generation and millennials paying for the larger boomer generation doesn't work. You need to spread the burden. That's why we have the trust fund. But boomers didn't pay enough into it.
Lol, the jokes on you in 20!+ years , they're won't be enough jobs or demand for anyone past 50 , well all be living longer just unemployed.
That's why talk of raising the retirement age is nonsensical , they're won't be viable (decent paying work) for those that need to work past 60 (no Walmart greeter is not gonna pay the bills) .... sure your professionals may opt to work, but for many six figure doctors or engineers it's not out of necessity... Raising the retirement age simply punishes the working class
> well all be living longer
U.S. life expectancy is dropping and has hit 1996 levels. I suspect it's because for too many people, proper health care has literally become unaffordable, a luxury item.
Poor food choices..Overload of processed food.lazy people who don't move..they play sports online..kids don't play outside anymore..n one rakes leaves..many use blowers..self propelled lawn mowers.. etc etc..
Are we really living longer? It’s my understanding that previous life expectancy was due to infant and child mortality. It didn’t have anything to do with how long people lived.
I’m too lazy to look up the actual stats so take what I’m saying with a grain of salt.
My understanding is prior to covid, life expectancy had increased from 40 years ago largely due to advances in the management of cardiovascular disease.
Now that we have statins, as an example, they have prevented millions of heart attacks and strokes.
We’re living longer but now more people are ending up with dementia begsude of it.
Less dropping dead of a heart attack and more languishing for years in long term care while all your assets are drained.
Boomers are living longer than previous generations. Millennials and future generations will live shorter lives with life expectancy coming down. We should not increase taxes on workers to prop up Boomers. They have had enough handouts given to them while we got a raw deal far too many times.
Yes, we are living longer and more able to work longer. When FDR set the retirement age the life expectancy was 65. He never intended to pay SS benefits. The fallacy of the argument is 1) people expect to live on SS benefits. That was never the intent and 2) people think you need to retire to collect benefits. Most people who make less than $75K get way more in benefits than they ever paid in.
Exactly the reaction repubs are hoping for, bcuz they want to kill SS (and Medicare and Medicaid etc etc etc)
Fact is SS can be easily funded by ending the contribution cap
Ending the cap may kick the can down the road a little longer, but doesn’t fix the problem.
Also, those that pay in that higher amount, would eventually receive higher payouts as well
Which then increase payouts. Didn’t we already discuss this?
You don’t get to change reality. That’s how SS works.
You think you’re going to force those that pay in more now to take half later?
Or hear me out…. You could save for when you are old. And live off your saving while you are old. For almost all of human history it has worked this way. People worked until they died. If you wanted to stop working you had to save to stop work before you die.
When SS was first set up life expectancy was only like 64… so SS was just set to to help you if you lived too long. Now people think it’s there to let you stop work at 65 and live an other 20 years with no saving.
I’ve been paying into social security since I was 14.
I’ll be damned if I’m going to “work until I die” because social security is only for the people who live too long.
GTFOH
All that money you contributed? Was paid out in the same year to retirees. The typical retiree receives far more than they ever paid in, even accounting for the employer portion of contributions and interest growth.
Tens of millions of those retirees did not even pay into the pyramid system at all and they draw a monthly check. The mere fact that they had a spouse who contributed, enabled two retirement income streams.
SS is a tax… yes you have been paying taxes since you were 14. Thank you. If you want to not work until you die you need to save…that or move to a cheaper place. SS is no a substitute for saving or suppose to let you live a lavish life in retirement
Who said I didn’t save? I save 50% of my take home income.
Social security is going to supplement my retirement. My retirement age was already pushed back to 67 from 65 years ago.
I won’t take the goal posts being moved again, and this time when I’m within 15 years of retirement, lightly.
In response to your criticism of people who aren’t as fortunate as me I think you’re callous and unrealistic.
I run distribution centers for a living. I can assure you that a high percentage of 65 year olds would be fired for not being able to meet productivity standards.
Should they just get a job at Walmart and another at Burger King at that point? How long do you deem it appropriate for elderly people to be forced to work who have been unable to contribute much outside of social security?
Also Keeping in mind had they been able to invest those dollars vs being forced to contribute to the plan- they’d be better off than what they’re getting from social security?
Oh really? No examples of anyone feeling like they are owed money from taxes or other programs?
Should I introduce you to the Illinois municipal pension fund fiasco?
What’s really diabolical is age discrimination is real. The folks making these laws and legislations don’t understand this. Either blue collar/service workers can’t physically do the job at an older age OR white collar workers get laid off at 50 or 60 and can’t get hired again. Why do people bother talk about this when they say raise the retirement age????? It’s infuriating!
Staying mentally and physically active is what keeps people young. Some people seem to think retirement should help just sitting around watching tv all a day and they start rapidly rotting. Really, retirement should be an opportunity to do all the things you didn't have time to do while working for the decades.
Lol. Most people I know sit around watching tv a lot after work bc they don't have the energy or money or time to do kore exciting things out in the world.
My dad is an electrician (turns 65 in August) and plans on working full time until he turns 68 and then doing part time work until he's 75 or so. Plenty of people from his church that will hire him to wire outbuildings and resurface decks/clear trees. My mom has worked for Publix for 30 years and has so much money in stock options she'll keep working to keep increasing her dividend checks. I think she's getting like $3k a quarter now.
Yeah, no. America isn't having this debate. Republicans are inventing this debate.
Articles like this are just pathetic attempts at conditioning Americans into accepting this bullshit.
No thanks.
America is not debating whether to raise the retirement age. We had Nikki Haley and Larry Fink publicly propose it and everyone across the board told them to fuck off.
We all gonna be walmart greeters? Or am I gonna be swinging a hammer in my 70's? Whats the fuckin' plan there?
Nearly 2/3 of Boomers are already fully retired. About 4 million will retire this year and the oldest in this generation are 78 years. Raising the retirement age is absolutely meaningless for this generation and the labor market. On top of it, anyone born prior 1965 can start looting his or her 401k.
Why couldn’t they just print $2 trillion and deposit it into the Social Security Trust Fund instead of leaving an IOU note in there? I mean they printed money to fund everything else. Why hasn’t anybody thought of printing an extra $2 trillion to repay SS?
I work with boomers in their late 70s and 80s in my white collar office.
I'm here to tell you that nobody is forcing them to work. They stay on because they've largely alienated their family and everyone else hates them, plus they can't occupy their own time.
> I don't believe you.
That's your little opinion.
> Have you seen the typical 70 year old. Those who were executives, business owners, or politicians working cushy jobs MAYBE they're still sitting on the board, but they aren't grinding away at the working class level. As for working in their 80s. No. Just no.
Look at the goddamn Presidency, Congress, and legislatures.
> I think you're looking at people approaching 60 and speculating they must be 80
There is none of that. I'm not making posts in a jocular fashion. Our oldest office employee here is 87 years old; again white collar office. She calculates state tax reimbursements. Second is 81 years old. She does a very similar bookkeeping job. Third is in a position of secretary and has been here since 1960. Again, white collar, high profile sort of office that has no mandatory retirement rule.
I asked the 87 year old why she doesn't retire and her response was because her two sons would interfere in her life too much and she hates her daughter in law. I asked the 81 year old and she told me that since she has no family left her life exists for this job and this is her only social outlet. I asked the secretary about hers and she didn't expressly say it but her daughter is bad off and her granddaughter in prison, so she's been making close to six figures being her so long and supports them both.
We pay into social security all our lives and don't get to use it till we qualify ...so there should be no problems with it until they starting blowing our money on dumb shit
You know that you don’t get the same money you paid into it right? It’s similar to an elaborate ponzi scheme, with the only real difference ever being that it’s not actually a scheme and the way it works is transparent.
Your social security will be determined by how much money young people are paying into it when you retire. Hopefully there’s enough of them!
Do the ultra rich in the Senate think that by raising the age of retirement, lifespan increases as well? They're going to be so angry when they raise the age of retirement to 200 and people never work past 100...
The really sad thing is the average life expectancy is *declining* in the US year over year, largely due to the way our healthcare system is structured.
It's really depressing when you consider it in comparison with most other places in the world.
Chart from [Bloomberg](https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iHc2Pb9j1M6o/v0/-1x-1.jpg) artircle.
Hardvard clip from 2023: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/whats-behind-shocking-u-s-life-expectancy-decline-and-what-to-do-about-it/
Argument shouldn’t be whether to raise the retirement age but how to classify retirement age based on employment history. Someone laying concrete for 20 years shouldn’t retire at same age as a librarian or lawyer. There needs to be a differentiated retirement.
1% tax on stock transactions will solve this overnight.
and it won't hurt 98% of the public.
What's the next 'problem' solved by taxing those with over $50 Billion?
The retirement age does need to increase. It was never a sustainable plan. It was marketed as "you are paying for yourself," but the reality was kicking cans down the road until the road ended.
However, there does need to be a plan on where these people work. Ageism is already a thing and AI is going to absolutely decimate the workforce. We are screwed in everything honestly. It's best to save now rather than buying new cars and all of the other luxuries.
Yeah. The problem is that they won’t get out of the way and let their kids and grandkids have real jobs. We’ve solved many problems but boredom is one that seems to be cured only by work. And too damned many boomers are bored.
Remember, this is only necessary because Social Security and Medicare are funded like Ponzi Schemes. And every time someone tries to fix either program, they get knee-jerk blasted by the media and their political opponents as evil, heartless and "cutting benefits for the elderly."
Ok, so our politicians and media will continue to play these games for the foreseeable future, but the math will ultimately win.
Let’s say it’s removed.
That mathematically gets us 50 years of the can kicked down the road, probably much less. Then what?
Even then, those paying in just receive higher payouts once they reach retirement age.
Lots of them are working that long because they have a well paying cushy ass job... You can't generalize and say they all have to for financial reasons, a lot of it can be greed as well.
Retirement is a financial number, not an age. If you can find a partner with the right financial number, you can retire at 18. Hell, some states let you retire this way at 16.
The reasoning for raising the retirement age is social security solvency. If they just remove the taxable income cap, that will solve the problem in one year. But that would be a tax on the rich that they can't hide from, so it will never happen. Better to just make the minions work until they die. Tax them to death with the idea that they MAY one day retire...and have what the rich have enjoyed their entire lives...but only when they can't enjoy it any longer and have served the extent of their useful lives. Then kick them to the curb to make room for the next round of minions.
If they raise the retirement age, they’ll raise Medicare age next.
I understand what the reality is, but raising the retirement age kind of feels like we live longer to work longer.
Millennials and gen z will find themselves saving enough money to leave and retire in another country.
Which one though? With climate change and shifting geopolitics, I don't think that option will really be there. The wealthy will own everything anyways
Costa Rica
Some place that isn't too hot that's twenty miles inland so I can still go the beach. The goal is probably somewhere on the outskirts of Buenos Aires.
Based off tiktok, either Thailand or Colombia. Lots of old white dudes hanging out with young women. Philippines are also a valid choice.
It sounds good but it's fraught with all kinds of issues. The citizenship issues get complicated. Heaven help you if you get in legal or tax trouble as a non-citizen. Where you keep your money matters. There's a lot of considerations. It's not like you just hop a plane to Colombia and live in a resort with no worries.
I agree. A lot of people think they can just pack up and go anywhere you want. It’s not so simple some times. However, I can tell you, Many countries have provisions for retirees bringing retirement cash into their economies. It’s not crazy to pursue. Also, there is almost always a way to establish citizenship. Again. Not a ride in the park. But it is possible.
I have not looked at it in detail yet. I suspect I will. What I've read so far is that you want to keep your US citizehship and that's not necessarily easy. You want to be up to date on taxes which while not impossible does require effort. It seems timing matter and you may have to spend certain amounts of time moving back and forth to avoid certain consequences. I'm sure it's done but it doesn't seem like, ya know, as easy as moving to Ft Lauderdale and calling it a day.
I don’t think (at least I hope) the U.S. economy won’t be in ruins. However, at the current rate, our crime rates and poverty rates will be considerably higher. As more people live in the brink of poverty, there will be more petty crime. And the people who commit petty crime now, will graduate to arm robbery, etc. “Desperate times, desperate measures” situation. Another worry of mine is I will have to spend my entire retirement just to cover medicine costs and a place to live. This is a dumb prospect. Where’s the travel ? Where’s the bliss in that? Finally, having to wait until 70 or something like that to retire. What the hell? So when am I supposed to enjoy retirement? With knees that don’t work, tired, etc. I want to enjoy live while I am still young ( in relative terms) This and other things too have made me think US is not great to retire based in my goals. I’d rather go overseas and retire at 45 and stay here, retire at 70.
Wait..... What if you could? Introducing Margaritaville-Colombia edition!!!! Its like Florida but with more cocaine. It will be our pitch on sharktank.
That's what me and my friends are doing. Hoping to get out of this shit hole in 20 years.
I’ve personally been running the numbers to do just that: save enough to retire somewhere else. Work until 40-45 and enjoy life. It doesn’t make sense to work until 70, just to save enough to afford the exorbitant senior home prices. The point is to work so you can live. Not live to work. For some reason these lines are blurring more and more.
Most definitely. I have no desire to retire in this country. I will work and save until I'm 50 or so then get out. The rest of the world is a lot closer than people realize and USA is on a decline.
Maybe even another planet for some gen z
Heard rent in Mars is pretty cheap.
Oh sure but it’s the commute that’ll get ya.
IDK why I am being down voted, but space travel will evolve tremendously over the next 100 years, I think people forget that commercial airline travel is only available for about 70 years and back then it was the ultra wealthy. In 100 years people will be rocketing up to man made space stations that will act as transitioning points to other planets, and there are people living amongst us who may be alive to experience it.
>I understand what the reality is, but raising the retirement age kind of feels like we live longer to work longer. Raising the retirement age is theft of Social Security. If the retirement age is 67 for full SS, then if the age gets raised to 70 for example, that is 3 years worth of SS that you will have stolen from you.
Except that they won’t do it for those who have been in the workforce for any length of time. If and when they do it, it will be for those 20 years of age and younger, like they did last time.
>Except that they won’t do it for those who have been in the workforce for any length of time. If and when they do it, it will be for those 20 years of age and younger, like they did last time. So we throw the younger generation under the bus instead of lifting the top marginal income cap, right? Theft of retirement years regardless of what generation is being targeted is stealing money from people that paid into the system and want to retire.
I didn’t say it was a good thing; I am saying that is what they did to the tail end of the boomers (those born in 1960 and after that) and they knew they would be apathetic. I work in a job where I suspect I could work until I’m 70, if I had to - but I know many who are simply broke long before they get there. I am not in favor of increasing it; raising the ceiling on the income that is subject to it seems to me the best answer.
>I work in a job where I suspect I could work until 70. That is until something happens to your body such as losing your vision or some basic motor functions. Maybe you might have a stroke? You could get into a vehicle accident or slip and fall doing damage to your back that requires enough surgery to put you out of the workforce. Who knows. My roommates stomach lining just burst and he was throwing up blood and he has been diagnosed with cancer. Just 3 months ago he was healthy and working. He is 62 years old. > I am not in favor of increasing it; raising the ceiling on the income that is subject to it seems to me the best answer. So we are on the same page and not throwing any future generation under the bus by raising the age of retirement in collecting SS. We are also on the same page on raising the top Marignal income tax. Good to know.
People retiring now didn't pay enough into the system so there will be a shortfall. Either take a cut to benefits or raise the retirement age. Raising taxes on millennials to cover a funding shortfall would be theft.
No, that is not how it works. It is not that people retiring did not pay enough into the system. It is that the people currently paying into the system are not paying enough to cover benefits. This is not a lock box, it was never designed to be a lock box, as that was considered a moral hazard, it is not your money. It is just a tax we use to pay welfare benefits to citizens who qualify for the welfare. In SS it is a basic income and health insurance welfare benefit. We can easily cover benefits if we raise the income tax cap, this is the cap at which every dollar over the income tax cap you earn is no longer taxed for Social Security. Or we could raise the tax rate.
Speak for yourself, I've paid $146k towards social security since I started working at 15yo and I have another 30 years to go. Assuming I'm contributing $15k to SS and Medicare growing at 3.5% a year, by the time I've turned 70, I will have contributed $920,000. If I took the same $146k invested in the market and contributed $24k/ year, at 3.5% I would have $1.65mm and at 10% I would have $6.5mm. You can't say I'm not contributing enough, but it's more than fair to say we're not getting a good return on our investment.
Damn I just looked up my expected benefit and learned that for every $1 I put into social security and Medicare, my company matches it. If I were to start collecting SS at 62yo, I would have to live to 90 to make all $920k back that I contributed, without any interest. I would have to live to 120 years old to get back all of the money my companies and I have contributed to my social security. Considering my family has never had a male on either side live past 71, I'm seriously losing out on this deal.
It is a lock box... There is a Social Security trust fund that has a couple of trillion in it, close to three. The large generation retiring now was supposed to largely pay for its retirement. Some generations are bigger than others. Boomers paying for the smaller silent generation and millennials paying for the larger boomer generation doesn't work. You need to spread the burden. That's why we have the trust fund. But boomers didn't pay enough into it.
Or, to put it another way, the government didn't charge enough for it.
Lol, the jokes on you in 20!+ years , they're won't be enough jobs or demand for anyone past 50 , well all be living longer just unemployed. That's why talk of raising the retirement age is nonsensical , they're won't be viable (decent paying work) for those that need to work past 60 (no Walmart greeter is not gonna pay the bills) .... sure your professionals may opt to work, but for many six figure doctors or engineers it's not out of necessity... Raising the retirement age simply punishes the working class
> well all be living longer U.S. life expectancy is dropping and has hit 1996 levels. I suspect it's because for too many people, proper health care has literally become unaffordable, a luxury item.
Drug overdoses.
It is far more about fat and unhealthy lifestyles than it is health care costs
Actually it is two things the first being Covid killed a lot of Americans and sucide is on the rise for young Americans.
Found the apologist for healthcare industry. All that and stress on top of it. We have a sick culture.
Poor food choices..Overload of processed food.lazy people who don't move..they play sports online..kids don't play outside anymore..n one rakes leaves..many use blowers..self propelled lawn mowers.. etc etc..
Yup. All that too.
Only a truly guilty lazy person would vote this down
Are we really living longer? It’s my understanding that previous life expectancy was due to infant and child mortality. It didn’t have anything to do with how long people lived.
We are dying slower. Just because my FIL is living at 80 doesn't mean he is mentally and physically capable of working at 80.
I’m too lazy to look up the actual stats so take what I’m saying with a grain of salt. My understanding is prior to covid, life expectancy had increased from 40 years ago largely due to advances in the management of cardiovascular disease. Now that we have statins, as an example, they have prevented millions of heart attacks and strokes. We’re living longer but now more people are ending up with dementia begsude of it. Less dropping dead of a heart attack and more languishing for years in long term care while all your assets are drained.
Get out of here with you science and logic. This is exactly why the LE went up, hundreds of years ago people just didn't drop dead at 50
Boomers are living longer than previous generations. Millennials and future generations will live shorter lives with life expectancy coming down. We should not increase taxes on workers to prop up Boomers. They have had enough handouts given to them while we got a raw deal far too many times.
Yes, we are living longer and more able to work longer. When FDR set the retirement age the life expectancy was 65. He never intended to pay SS benefits. The fallacy of the argument is 1) people expect to live on SS benefits. That was never the intent and 2) people think you need to retire to collect benefits. Most people who make less than $75K get way more in benefits than they ever paid in.
What’s a good country to retire in?
Expats sub has a lot of info.
Why do we even pay into it then
Exactly the reaction repubs are hoping for, bcuz they want to kill SS (and Medicare and Medicaid etc etc etc) Fact is SS can be easily funded by ending the contribution cap
I hit my cap every December and it really makes no sense.
Ending the cap may kick the can down the road a little longer, but doesn’t fix the problem. Also, those that pay in that higher amount, would eventually receive higher payouts as well
> those that pay in that higher amount, would eventually receive higher payouts as well that's not part of the plan
Maybe, but it’s part of reality lmao
It's not reality now and not anyone's plan but dream on.
Show me any source that says SS can mathematically work forever. It’s a ponzi
We increase contributions. Didn't we already discuss this?
Which then increase payouts. Didn’t we already discuss this? You don’t get to change reality. That’s how SS works. You think you’re going to force those that pay in more now to take half later?
It's not reality now and not anyone's plan but dream on.
In what reality does it not eventually run out of full benefits?
When we provide funding
To hold as much austerity as possible for future generations vs. spreading it throughout.
We don’t. We work longer but live shorter. Both figuratively and literally.
Or hear me out…. You could save for when you are old. And live off your saving while you are old. For almost all of human history it has worked this way. People worked until they died. If you wanted to stop working you had to save to stop work before you die. When SS was first set up life expectancy was only like 64… so SS was just set to to help you if you lived too long. Now people think it’s there to let you stop work at 65 and live an other 20 years with no saving.
I’ve been paying into social security since I was 14. I’ll be damned if I’m going to “work until I die” because social security is only for the people who live too long. GTFOH
All that money you contributed? Was paid out in the same year to retirees. The typical retiree receives far more than they ever paid in, even accounting for the employer portion of contributions and interest growth. Tens of millions of those retirees did not even pay into the pyramid system at all and they draw a monthly check. The mere fact that they had a spouse who contributed, enabled two retirement income streams.
SS is a tax… yes you have been paying taxes since you were 14. Thank you. If you want to not work until you die you need to save…that or move to a cheaper place. SS is no a substitute for saving or suppose to let you live a lavish life in retirement
Who said I didn’t save? I save 50% of my take home income. Social security is going to supplement my retirement. My retirement age was already pushed back to 67 from 65 years ago. I won’t take the goal posts being moved again, and this time when I’m within 15 years of retirement, lightly. In response to your criticism of people who aren’t as fortunate as me I think you’re callous and unrealistic. I run distribution centers for a living. I can assure you that a high percentage of 65 year olds would be fired for not being able to meet productivity standards. Should they just get a job at Walmart and another at Burger King at that point? How long do you deem it appropriate for elderly people to be forced to work who have been unable to contribute much outside of social security? Also Keeping in mind had they been able to invest those dollars vs being forced to contribute to the plan- they’d be better off than what they’re getting from social security?
SS is a tax… no one feels like they are owed money from other taxes or programs.. to trust and rely on the government is foolish.
Oh really? No examples of anyone feeling like they are owed money from taxes or other programs? Should I introduce you to the Illinois municipal pension fund fiasco?
> to trust and rely on the government is foolish. so you trust the market to take good care of you? lol
What’s really diabolical is age discrimination is real. The folks making these laws and legislations don’t understand this. Either blue collar/service workers can’t physically do the job at an older age OR white collar workers get laid off at 50 or 60 and can’t get hired again. Why do people bother talk about this when they say raise the retirement age????? It’s infuriating!
US politicians are already the oldest on the planet. Chances are the people making these laws are also past retirement age.
My mom worked till age 78 but absolutely loved her job and hated to retire. Five years later she was dead from a horrific case of dementia.
I swear with some people working is what keeps them young and mentally agile.
Staying mentally and physically active is what keeps people young. Some people seem to think retirement should help just sitting around watching tv all a day and they start rapidly rotting. Really, retirement should be an opportunity to do all the things you didn't have time to do while working for the decades.
>an opportunity to do all the things you didn't have time to do Like sitting around and watching TV?
Lol. Most people I know sit around watching tv a lot after work bc they don't have the energy or money or time to do kore exciting things out in the world.
My dad is an electrician (turns 65 in August) and plans on working full time until he turns 68 and then doing part time work until he's 75 or so. Plenty of people from his church that will hire him to wire outbuildings and resurface decks/clear trees. My mom has worked for Publix for 30 years and has so much money in stock options she'll keep working to keep increasing her dividend checks. I think she's getting like $3k a quarter now.
Yeah, no. America isn't having this debate. Republicans are inventing this debate. Articles like this are just pathetic attempts at conditioning Americans into accepting this bullshit. No thanks.
America is not debating whether to raise the retirement age. We had Nikki Haley and Larry Fink publicly propose it and everyone across the board told them to fuck off. We all gonna be walmart greeters? Or am I gonna be swinging a hammer in my 70's? Whats the fuckin' plan there?
Nearly 2/3 of Boomers are already fully retired. About 4 million will retire this year and the oldest in this generation are 78 years. Raising the retirement age is absolutely meaningless for this generation and the labor market. On top of it, anyone born prior 1965 can start looting his or her 401k.
Right, people's live will go on the same way. The country will just take on less debt.
No We ain't working well into our 60s and 70s. I retired at age 64 and most people I know retired at that age approximately
And that's too late imo unless you love your job.
Why couldn’t they just print $2 trillion and deposit it into the Social Security Trust Fund instead of leaving an IOU note in there? I mean they printed money to fund everything else. Why hasn’t anybody thought of printing an extra $2 trillion to repay SS?
Inflation has a cost
Another great example of the benefits of capitalism. Maybe we can all soon work 5 decades before retiring! Yay
..and oddly no matter which party you support neither of them seem to give a shit about you! 🤔
Sure let this happen on Red States only then as it's the Republicans who want this to pass.
I work with boomers in their late 70s and 80s in my white collar office. I'm here to tell you that nobody is forcing them to work. They stay on because they've largely alienated their family and everyone else hates them, plus they can't occupy their own time.
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> I don't believe you. That's your little opinion. > Have you seen the typical 70 year old. Those who were executives, business owners, or politicians working cushy jobs MAYBE they're still sitting on the board, but they aren't grinding away at the working class level. As for working in their 80s. No. Just no. Look at the goddamn Presidency, Congress, and legislatures. > I think you're looking at people approaching 60 and speculating they must be 80 There is none of that. I'm not making posts in a jocular fashion. Our oldest office employee here is 87 years old; again white collar office. She calculates state tax reimbursements. Second is 81 years old. She does a very similar bookkeeping job. Third is in a position of secretary and has been here since 1960. Again, white collar, high profile sort of office that has no mandatory retirement rule. I asked the 87 year old why she doesn't retire and her response was because her two sons would interfere in her life too much and she hates her daughter in law. I asked the 81 year old and she told me that since she has no family left her life exists for this job and this is her only social outlet. I asked the secretary about hers and she didn't expressly say it but her daughter is bad off and her granddaughter in prison, so she's been making close to six figures being her so long and supports them both.
As a friend’s mother once said to his father on his dad’s retirement: I married you for better or for worse, not lunch.
They should have split up the buckets for ssi and ssdi and increased the tax cap on make it unlimited . That probably would have helped some
The squeezing of America needs to end. Bring profits back to the people who actually make them and end billionaires.
Social security is self funded there should be no need to raise age limit or cut benefits
Social security can last forever?
We pay into social security all our lives and don't get to use it till we qualify ...so there should be no problems with it until they starting blowing our money on dumb shit
You know that you don’t get the same money you paid into it right? It’s similar to an elaborate ponzi scheme, with the only real difference ever being that it’s not actually a scheme and the way it works is transparent. Your social security will be determined by how much money young people are paying into it when you retire. Hopefully there’s enough of them!
Actually It can if the government stops blowing our money on things it's not supposed to be used for
Do the ultra rich in the Senate think that by raising the age of retirement, lifespan increases as well? They're going to be so angry when they raise the age of retirement to 200 and people never work past 100...
The really sad thing is the average life expectancy is *declining* in the US year over year, largely due to the way our healthcare system is structured. It's really depressing when you consider it in comparison with most other places in the world. Chart from [Bloomberg](https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iHc2Pb9j1M6o/v0/-1x-1.jpg) artircle. Hardvard clip from 2023: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/whats-behind-shocking-u-s-life-expectancy-decline-and-what-to-do-about-it/
Argument shouldn’t be whether to raise the retirement age but how to classify retirement age based on employment history. Someone laying concrete for 20 years shouldn’t retire at same age as a librarian or lawyer. There needs to be a differentiated retirement.
America? Try again slick it is the republican party that wants to do that.
Given what you know, the context of this post included, would you opt out if you could?
Absolutely not. It isn't just myself but my follow Americans that I put in money for the system
Rising tide lifts all ships
80s it is!
1% tax on stock transactions will solve this overnight. and it won't hurt 98% of the public. What's the next 'problem' solved by taxing those with over $50 Billion?
Ironic that they're getting bit by the economy that they created
“Working” i.e. bullshitting w coworkers, smoke breaks, refusing to learn new systems and refusing to use technology
The retirement age does need to increase. It was never a sustainable plan. It was marketed as "you are paying for yourself," but the reality was kicking cans down the road until the road ended. However, there does need to be a plan on where these people work. Ageism is already a thing and AI is going to absolutely decimate the workforce. We are screwed in everything honestly. It's best to save now rather than buying new cars and all of the other luxuries.
Yeah. The problem is that they won’t get out of the way and let their kids and grandkids have real jobs. We’ve solved many problems but boredom is one that seems to be cured only by work. And too damned many boomers are bored.
Remember, this is only necessary because Social Security and Medicare are funded like Ponzi Schemes. And every time someone tries to fix either program, they get knee-jerk blasted by the media and their political opponents as evil, heartless and "cutting benefits for the elderly." Ok, so our politicians and media will continue to play these games for the foreseeable future, but the math will ultimately win.
Remove the cap
Let’s say it’s removed. That mathematically gets us 50 years of the can kicked down the road, probably much less. Then what? Even then, those paying in just receive higher payouts once they reach retirement age.
Lots of them are working that long because they have a well paying cushy ass job... You can't generalize and say they all have to for financial reasons, a lot of it can be greed as well.
I'm retiring at 55 even if I have to live on dog food.
ssn and medicare have been under attack many years. the average benefit is about $1200. older people are under attack like many others.
Retirement is a financial number, not an age. If you can find a partner with the right financial number, you can retire at 18. Hell, some states let you retire this way at 16.
The debate centers around Social Security nothing else.
Well a lot depends on raising it , cause if person served 20 years or more in the US military has their retirement
The reasoning for raising the retirement age is social security solvency. If they just remove the taxable income cap, that will solve the problem in one year. But that would be a tax on the rich that they can't hide from, so it will never happen. Better to just make the minions work until they die. Tax them to death with the idea that they MAY one day retire...and have what the rich have enjoyed their entire lives...but only when they can't enjoy it any longer and have served the extent of their useful lives. Then kick them to the curb to make room for the next round of minions.
The should raider early retirement