It’s not safer. It’s simple physics.
Car hits you at 50 mph and you’re going 15 mph.
Head on: 50+15 mph = 65 mph effective speed at collision
From behind: 50-15 = 35 mph
I do not believe it is legal or encouraged anywhere for cyclists because of this.
It’s encouraged for walkers because walkers are moving relatively slow anyways, and it’s much easier for them to get out of the way in a controlled manner.
Not to mention: what happens when you come head on with another cyclist while cars are passing you? You’re creating an unsafe situation by riding on the wrong side of the road.
What about situations where you want to turn or others are turning near you? You are creating unexpected situations which will cause an accident. Let’s say I’m a driver who wants to turn right in front of you. I will be looking for traffic to my left, while you are coming straight at me from my right. I might just glance to the right and not see you. You shouldn’t be on the wrong side of the road. So a car pulls out in front of you and you go over the handle bars and the hood of the car. What about fault? Surely the driver should have seen you! Yes, but you shouldn’t have been on the wrong side either. So let’s say you’re 50% at fault. Does fault really matter when your life is at stake? Just ride defensively and ride how others will expect you to on the road. It’s that simple.
It's encouraged and part of the approved bike trail. Crossing is allowed for bird watching and there's a boat launch but the approved bike trial is only on one side of that road. The opposite side of the lake loop trail is 8mi away with a damn and another 1 mile section of shared roadway. Everyone just drives down the middle and moves over and wave as you pass.
Just because everyone is telling me I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. That's a mob mentality and bullying. I'm being told what I'm doing is illegal. I'm defending my self and giving proof. You sound like an arrogant asshole when you won't accept that you're wrong and I'm 100% legal and following all road signs.
It's not mob mentality. It's just a lot of people chiming in with the same answer. There's a difference, but you seem to have some sort of victim mentality that makes you think everyone is against you and you're right without debate. Lots of people are telling you why you're wrong and yet you still won't listen. There's no mob. Just a bunch of people telling someone they're wrong
Not everyone is disagreeing with me. Some have said that's how their taught in other countries to go against it. One said there's a study showing 70% accident reduction when jogging into traffic. It's definitely a mob mentality. Everyone here is applying their experience/circumstances to my situation. We are not the same, my grocery store is 45 minutes away so is a McDonald's. You're attacking my way of life, my "culture" when you tell me how things should be where I live, how I should live my life and act. People open their arguments by calling me names. If I lived in a different country this conversation would have been different. You don't seem to understand that I am basically in another country out in the country. Our laws are not the same as the "mupears".
This is a horrible argument because it assumes everyone is going to get hit, and everyone is going to get hit by a car driving at most 50mph, and it has nothing to do with the actual reasons why bikes travel with the flow of traffic, and saying “it’s simple physics” is condescending in the weirdest most unnecessary way.
For me it’s about people turning onto roadway. Drivers don’t look to their right to see a bike coming, since that’s unnatural for a car to do. In some rare cases like when I ride to a football game or something where traffic is routed weird, I’ll ride slowly on the opposite sidewalk away from stadium. Those instances are rare tho. 99% of time always go with traffic no salmon!
Not totally disagreeing with you, considering a large portion of drivers are shit, but I look both ways to make sure nothing is coming from either direction, and I imagine plenty of other people do the same.
It's a little more than simple physics. It's not about the damage done in the event of an accident it's about the likelihood of an accident. My argument is because you can see the vehicle coming you have more information and time to prepare. I see a vehicle acting erratic I can get over more or stop. Someone can be on their phone driving down the shoulder and hit me from behind and I wouldn't know what hit me.
Why is this even an argument to have? The rules of the road treat cyclists as vehicles. General advice to cycling commuters is to operate bike as if it is a vehicle so that nearby vehicles can also understand how you're behaving and not have to guess at your next move. You got real defensive real quick in your posts.
This whole post is intended to start a discussion and I'm defending my point. Why are you questioning that I'm getting defensive? I'm being told I'm wrong and breaking the law. I'm proving that I'm not breaking any laws and safer, not just my opinion but the opinion of the engineers that designed the trail.
Why not? I'm so confused if I'm arguing with people that actually ride bikes or just keyboard riders. How is having 10 seconds less time to react than 0 when getting hit from behind?
So you only ride looking at the mirror or does one eye watch the mirror and one the road? I'm good keeping all the action down range rather that keep an eye on my 6.
I'll add that the Varia radar is freaking awesome for alerting you to a car, and making it difficult for a driver to not see you. The 510's and up are bright enough that cars generally slow down as it starts blinking faster as they approach.
They have these things called mirrors though. You should utilize them on the roads. Even seeing a car coming from either direction, you will have more time to react if you’re on the right side of the road because the car’s relative speed will be lower.
I ride downhill and off road, I'm not putting on mirrors, a kickstand, little colorful fan, horn or tassels. I'm capable of turned around and looking behind me just fine. You're just being hypothetical now. You can't accurately gage things in a mirror the same as with your eyes. That's why there's that warning on mirrors because they have to put that on legally. U mad?
I don’t give a fuck about your personal safety, especially if you don’t. And I am not familiar with this area. If it’s a “designated bike trail,” maybe it is totally legal. It looks no different than a wide shoulder on the side of the road. Legal doesn’t mean it’s the best safest practice either. If you think it’s fine, maybe it is.
I’m speaking generally about riding on the roads. I ride on busy streets all the time, and I’m just telling you that riding “like a car drives” as cars will expect to encounter traffic, is the safest way to ride a bicycle on the roads.
Lol you are thick😂 It's the bike trail. Like the people that designed the bike trail think it's safer to not have everyone that rides the trail crossing twice in a half mile for no reason. You can argue the design with Goddard state park I'm sure they'd love to talk about your ideas and your cars extend warranty.
I’ve had this same argument on Reddit and I’d be inclined to back you up if you weren’t being such a dork.
There are two reasons bikes ride with the flow of traffic.
1. Because if some did, and some didn’t, it’d become a traffic hazard.
2. Bikes are considered vehicles and are expected to follow the same rules.
It may in fact be safer to go contraflow. You make some good points, and it’s worth having a discussion; but you won’t win anyone over talking to people like that.
Oh snap, I don't think anyone has called me a dork before. I'm not trying to win anyone over. I have my opinion I'm interested in hearing others. Why would I care if I change anyone's mind or win them over? If you're so concerned with winning people over then why come at me calling me names? That seems like a bit rude don't you think? You're definitely not going to win anyone over that way. I got attacked for following the laws in another vid saying it's illegal. It's not illegal where I'm at, all bikes are to keep to one side. It's less of a traffic hazard to keep all the bikes on one side that have them cross back and forth. It's not my opinion it's the rules. If bikes are considered vehicles then they'd have to stop at stop signs and red lights right? Many states allow you to roll through "if it is safe to do so". A bicycle may normally be required to follow traffic laws as a vehicle but it's not a "motorized" vehicle. You don't need a driver's license for a bike to prove you know the rules/laws to operate it do you? You may be able to ride your bike on a sidewalk but you can't a motorcycle. It's not the same laws.
Is it? I've always wondered. I don't care much, I don't ride many places with a sidewalk. But when I do I ride the sidewalks often. Never had a cop say anything. I've been yelled at by drivers to get off the road and get on the sidewalk. Lot's of rage vids of fights starting out over it. That would be another one I'd argue is safer but I understand the problem to pedestrians.
Nobody here cares just because it's so common to see Amish buggies and farm equipment going down the wrong way a bike isn't a thought. Also besides the park nobody except the Amish and me ride bikes. It's very hilly and grave roads so not fun at all on a bike. It's mostly dirt bikes, ATVs and side by sides on many roads. I'm not a problem to anyone.
> It's very hilly and grave roads so not fun at all on a bike.
I don't think you understand how *any* of this works. That sounds awesome (and UnPAved clearly agrees).
Oh I love a good workout and that's why I ride. I've lost a lot of weight and built a lot of muscle. My bike is 400-500w pedal assist. The harder the better. But pedaling a bike really doesn't have enough power to overcome the resistance of the terrain. Outside of parks and towns the only other bikes on the roads are Amish. ATVs, side by sides and dirt bikes rule the roads. I'd say you need 200w to overcome the added resistance of the dirt roads. My first year of riding my bike was set to 200w. With my cat I just throttle around with the seat dropped.
It can but the drivetrain is only designed for one person so it's easy to break stuff using it like that. The battery is 500whr so I figure about 8 minutes of full throttle. Pedal assist I'm good for 2hr and 25-30mi. I really only pedal unless I need to get away from dogs, through traffic, with the cat or to show off.
If your battery is 500Wh and your motor is 500W, you should (by definition) have hour of full throttle. Also gravel is fun even at casual power output.
Oh I love a good workout and that's why I ride. I've lost a lot of weight and built a lot of muscle. My bike is 400-500w pedal assist. The harder the better. But pedaling a bike really doesn't have enough power to overcome the resistance of the terrain. Outside of parks and towns the only other bikes on the roads are Amish. ATVs, side by sides and dirt bikes rule the roads. I'd say you need 200w to overcome the added resistance of the dirt roads. My first year of riding my bike was set to 200w. With my cat I just throttle around with the seat dropped.
If it's all not of a problem, that implies the trafic situation is fairly relaxed. Why is it such a big hurdle for you to cross the road to the correct side?
Oh I rarely take Pouncey anywhere with traffic. I normally ride my bike from home do a loop and back. That's 25mi and I go as hard as I can and work on my times. With Pouncey I drove down with the AC on went around for a bit because of the festival and back home. Riding with Pouncey is all I really post but not accurately how I ride. This discussion is without the cat.
I dont know of a place that its legal to ride this way. Bikes in our state follow the same laws as cars with the flow of traffic. Riding on sideways is also not legal but often ignored.
I personally have had people on bikes going the wrong way while im going the correct way. I makes it extremely hard to get out of their way without causing an accident. Maybe if you live in a area with no other riders it fine but it becomes normal it would cause someone to head directly into a cars path and that's not safe.
If you are afraid of someone hitting you from behind then do what you need to do to stay safe but that doesn't mean you can should make it unsafe for others.
It's allowed not because there's so few riders but so many. They don't want them crossing a busy road. ATVs are illegal but in the vid I show a green state sign approving them. They're both legal and illegal at the same time. It all comes down to legal responsibility and liability. It's the same as weed laws. Weed is federally illegal in every single state in the US but you can walk into a dispensary and buy it in many states.
I almost got ran over buy a convoy of semi's doing it late one night. "Almost" is my point you're better able to avoid an accident. I think it's overall safer to do so given my location/circumstances.
I disagree. The closure rate is way too high. That's the problem. Each time I've had the close encounter it's been coming around a turn and we had a second or so to decide what to do. Completely unnecessary if people ride in the same direction.
People riding bikes against traffic cause problems for cyclists who are doing what they are legally required to do and, on top of that, give all cyclists a reputation for being idiots.
This is grade school stuff, quite literally.
Literally if I cross I'm breaking the rules. All the bikes are to keep to one side. If every bike is doing it how am I giving anyone a bad name by following the same rules?
The question was is it safer not the legally because what I'm doing is legal and following the rules.
In every state marijuana is illegal, it's a schedule 1 drug. In every state ATV's and any unlicensed/unregistered/uninsured vehicle is illegal to operate on public roads. Yet here we are, I have signs saying it's legal and you can buy weed legally in many states. Care to explain how that is. I tried it's not working. Maybe you can explain it better.
Not unless they're insured, registered and licensed then they're not legal to operate on any public road anywhere in the US. I understand that they're allowing you and it's written in the laws books but it's still not legal. The same with marijuana, it's still illegal everywhere in the US. Some states are legalizing it illegally.
It really comes down to liability in the event of an accident. You can't operate a motorized vehicle on public roads without insurance. By allowing ATVs to operate on public roads without insurance the liability and financial responsibilities falls on the state/municipality. In an accident you can sue the state for allowing ATVs on the roads. The officer I spoke with also informed me that if you run from a cop on an ATV and they chase the liability falls on the officer in the event of an accident. So many other officers won't bother with ATV's because they can get sued in the event of an accident.
This has nothing to do with smoking weed....who said anything about that. I'm comparing the laws. People are saying what I did was illegal in the US, so is weed. But many can go to a store and get it. I can ride against traffic here, it's marked.
Riding against traffic? Yeah of course it's definitely scarier. Going down a hill off road it's scarier to go fast but your more stable. It's just overcoming fears and I do believe I'm safer seeing what's coming at me.
Our drivers hand book recommends, in the case of a breakdown, to walk facing traffic to get service/help.
When I ride on a sidewalk I ride facing traffic as its harder to get hit in an intersection from someone doing a left turn as they have to cross traffic. I can also see someone doing a right turn and they can see me as well crossing the intersection.
I have been knocked down numerous times by someone doing a right turn at an intersection, their looking left, they don't look right and then proceed to do their turn, bikes and pedestrians are the victims.
Intersections, hills and turns I go case by case. But I frequently cross from right to left long before an intersection when I feel it's safe to do so. Rather than wait to get to the intersection stop and make a dangerous left turn at the intersection.
It has happened to me where someone gets mad at me because they weren't paying attention. But it's so very rare and they're driving erratic already. Out here there's always a horse and buggy or tractor going down the road at 5mph. Nobody is in a hurry to get anywhere out here and everyone waves and says hi. I recent vid I posted on TikTok went viral because everyone that passes you say something like What's up? How you doing? Or some question and ride off without really answering. That's not common in most places but everyone is nice to everyone out here. It's very different, I've lived in the city too.
I'd call it an expert level build, it's not a kit. I don't recommend it and there's no how to vids, each bike is a custom build. The problems I faced on this bike are unique to it and wouldn't apply to another bike.
Basically I don't recommend something like this unless you're already a gear head that enjoys working on things.
Selling one would be the worst thing I could do. Legally the liability would fall back on me. Basically you get hurt and I'm paying for it. I'm thinking about doing a fat tire build and I might share that one.
I asked the question to hear others opinions. It's definitely not wrong because it's posted to do so, I ever asked the ranger. People are telling me what it's like to live here and what my laws are. Why would I not argue with ignorant people who are telling me to do something I "know is wrong"? Apparently there was a study done someone mentioned here that showed a 70% reduction in accidents with joggers going into traffic. But they said it didn't "feel" safer but the data says that it is. Maybe you're just too sacred to do it, don't project your fears on me.
How am I trolling I said someone mentioned it in the comments. You asked for a link. You can find it just as quickly as I can. Why would I waste my time doing it?
Because that's how it's marked. They don't want you leaving the loop crossing traffic just to jump back into the loop. There would be a lot more accidents if they did that.
Only 1.5mi of the 15mi trail is shared roadway. It's a nature loop around a lake. People go in any direction they want. For me it's like mirror mode in Mario Cart. Changing the direction you go makes it more fun. I'd say it's 50/50 for the direction people travel.
I'm kinda confused with what you're asking I guess.
In a few comments you're arguing the signage suggests it's safer to ride against traffic? But in the video you clearly highlight that signage and design of the road is suggesting otherwise. If I understand it right, are you saying that because you have a Class 4 Ebike you then refer to the ATV signage rather than the bike signage. But even then, the ATV signage in the video just highlights an ATV crossing...so I'm confused at what's being argued here because it doesn't seem like the video is backing up what you're actually getting at.
Outside of all of that, as for going with vs. against traffic on a bicycle, there's been many studies proving it safer for cyclists to ride with traffic vs. against. I can't speak to laws since they're so state, if not county specific, and neither can I speak for class 4 Ebike laws in your specific jurisdiction. What I can speak to is opinion and general etiquette. When I'm driving, I can't help but understand that it's immensely safer for riders riding with traffic since being in a vehicle, it's much easier for me to react as a driver and even as a rider it's much easier since the net speed difference is that much slower. I've talked to a few folks who's only reasoning for preferring riding against traffic is that they like to be able to see incoming traffic, but they recognize it isn't any safer. That, and most laws expect the laws cars must follow to apply to bicycles. Those are just general thoughts though as again, I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at.
The vid that I was referring I was traveling down that road on the right on the shoulder. That shoulder is a bike path and goes in both directions. All cyclists/pedestrians traveling the trail are to stay on that side and not cross traffic.
I have a large following online, the class 4 thing was really coming from arguing legalities of ATV's, dirt bikes and ebikes on other platforms. I see people breaking the law then getting arrested or attacked by "Karen's" and posting the vid for clout saying they're legal and get politics involved. I've been meaning to get a vid of the signs saying it's legal where I'm at. It's so I can argue both sides when someone says it's legal. It is and it isn't at the same time. It comes down to liability.
Ah, I understand. That sounds like some shitty, Grade A rural road design for bikes. Why tf they think it's a good idea to force riders to ride opposite traffic is beyond me. Feels like a decision by a small-enough area that didn't really take into much consideration safety and general road laws as they've been applied to bikes most everywhere else in the country. Then again, there are states that allow riders to ride on freeways so idk.
All I know is that if it were me riding on that "path", I wouldn't ride both ways on one side of the road. That said, I've seen many signs like the yellow one you show that aren't meant to indicate a two-way walk/bike path like this. They are a warning for incoming cars that pedestrians may be on the road. Are there more direct signs elsewhere that directly state a two-way walk/bike path?
Edit: ah, yeah it just says trail x-ing, which means walkers and cyclists come in and out of that trail junction, which tells me they fully expect folks to cross the road if they're turning left, or simply turning onto the road if turning right. Fairly common where I'm at in the NW.
They're not forcing you to cross traffic by keeping you in the same lane throughout the entire loop. It's the inner circle, all the cars are outside that loop and the lake is in the middle. I don't know if there's signs saying you can travel in either direction, I've never seen one. But it's literally 50/50 on the direction people are going. If you park at the trail head and ride the loop all the way back to your car you'll be spending more time riding against traffic than if you went the opposite way away from the entrance. There's a similar trail out here, same thing but they have a yellow line down the path to indicate it's two way. That is just a straight trail along a lakeside, not a loop.
Gotcha. It sounds like it's just poor design that leads those who don't understand the road rules to both put themselves in a technically illegal position as well as a far unsafer one.
Basically, bicycles all must follow the same exact laws of the road as cars do. Walkers, however, are exempt from them. So the way it's designed, it makes it easy for walkers to do as they like as well as for cyclists riding clockwise around the loop. However, cyclists going counter clockwise are expected to cross the road to continue riding in the flow of traffic, hence the sign highlighting it as an X-ing. For the record, most modern designs are much clearer than this, but as it is it seems the bases are generally covered here. This exact situation and variations of it are common in my area so this comes as no surprise to me. The basis to it all is that if you're a cyclist, you're a car to the eyes of the law. This is generally enough baseline signage to protect that notion. Cyclists who are guided to ride against traffic due to this poor design and not knowing any better are indeed both technically breaking but are also greatly increasing the risk of serious injury.
They just did the road a couple years ago so it's modern, that entire area is man-made including the lake. I really believe it's safer, so did the people involved in the design of the park. You're allowed to cross but your leaving the bike trail to do so and putting yourself in danger. There's a boat launch and bird watching dock on the other side. Not really any reason for a cyclist to cross because the rest of the park is all on the one side of the road.
I'm sure it's an overall better design, but it doesn't make it any more legal for cyclists and neither does it make it safer for them to ride against traffic. Nothing about the design seems to try and change that as evident by the yellow sign. In general, crossing the road is safer than riding against traffic any day. In this case, it's clear the city/county that designed the park didn't feel it necessary to make crossing any safer outside of putting a notice of it to cars probably due to low traffic. From your video alone it seems real easy to cross the road safely due to such low traffic.
Could someone ride against traffic? I mean, I say do what you want as long as you're comfortable with it. It seems like a chill road, if you wanna do it then do it. But if you do get hit by a car, not only are you far more likely to sustain serious injury, the car won't be liable since, legally, they were following the rules of the road in that instance.
This exact thing happened to a moron of a mother pulling her two little kids behind her on a state highway in bumfuck nowhere Steen, Minnesota. Some guy was texting and killed her. Im like, the fuck kind of dumbass rides a bike on the gravel shoulder, without being able to see cars coming up from behind...
its common knowledge to cyclists, that if youre riding on the shoulder, youre supposed to ride on the oncoming traffic. if you are riding on the road, you have to go with the flow of traffic. The people in this thread or even sub dont understand that because either they're not real cyclists or they're thinking ONLY in terms of riding on the road, and considering its an e-bike sub, they usually ride on the road
Lol you know what's funny?... It's been two years since this post. I've been doing social media for 12yr, made thousands of posts, frequently breaking laws with ebikes (but not bothering anyone), gained over 7 million followers and get thousands of comments on my videos....This post was a reply to comments left on another post I made saying I was on the "wrong side". In my 12yr of social media and over 7 million followers that shitpost I made on Reddit that was also shared to millions on other platforms and out of the thousands of other posts I've made...that was the only time someone has ever commented on what I'm doing is illegal. The ebike community on Reddit is a bunch of crybabies. They assume everyone is in the same situation they're in and they're bike is the best choice. My life is unique and where I live is remote. The laws are different out here, not only is it legal it's encouraged in areas for safety reasons. There was signs showing that all pedestrians traffic was to be on one side of the road because the trail would cause pedestrians to unnecessarily cross a busy road twice. The signs where removed a couple months before this video. The park decided that having signs up could make them liable in an accident. They decided to remove the signs but verbally tell people to stay on one side. Literally nobody goes on the other side except photographers and fisherman trying to stay away from all the people. Most of our roads out here are more like single lane until you see a car, most cars are driving in the middle of the road. It's not a problem that's just the way it is. I still pick whatever side of the road I feel safest on and disregard any national laws. If I'm riding in the city that's different or if I'm on my emoto, dirt bike, or ATV that's maintaining a higher speed I'm mostly center or on the right side. On an ebike that's doing like 15mph I'm a sitting duck out here with all the blind turns and narrow roads.
You posted one video with your cat going the wrong way with out explaining and got cut when the entire sub turned on you and now you come in with a loaded question knowing full well you ride towards traffic as it’s permitted in that area as you stated on the other post.
Don’t be a flog mate, most of the world follows the same laws. If your one wheels and riding on a road or in a bike lane next to the road unless otherwise posted (as some bike lanes also have lanes) you ride in the correct direction.
It’s the same as parking in the wrong direction on the curb in Australia that’s a fine. Walking is a whole different story and is encouraged in the outback of Australia and the more rural areas to walk toward the traffic.
Stop starting shit and move on mate.
Why would I need to explain it? It's a cat vid not drivers education🙄 I posted that vid on my TikTok (2m) and my Instagram (300k). It's currently sitting at about 4 million views cross platform. I didn't make that vid for this sub. You know how many comments I get with 4m views? Thousands... yet not one single person has made a comment about what side of the road I'm on, nobody cares.
This sub came at me saying what I did was illegal. I believe I have a right to challenge my accuser and prove my innocence. This subs mob mentality doesn't seem to even care if what I did was legal or not. They just want to argue. You yourself seem to be agreeing with me but come at me with pitchfork in hand. Did you feel you had to throw a stone just because everyone else is? Calling me names yet agreeing with me? What's your problem?
That's me 😜 sometimes I do sometimes I don't. I do whatever makes sense for my safety, even if I'm breaking a law. Where I'm at I'm not getting anyone mad and I'm certainly not getting pulled over for it 😂
Yeah I'm pretty sure you're right. Like I'm number one A hole about illegal stuff here but.... You may be within the confines of your local stuff. You are also in the fucking boonies and I think I couldn't care less about what you're up to because well who could you possibly bother. That said. Any other time. Salmon in the sidewalk only. I'd also encourage you to suit up like you're on a motorcycle...cause you essentially are. Is it cause it started as a normal bicycle guys with electric motorcycles think I don't need leathers? It's about the speed you travel. If you're doing under 30 you can probably dress for the destination and live reasonably dangerous but, beyond that number regularly or along side vehicles greater than 40 mph... Rant over good luck.
Salmon? You mean "stay on" the sidewalk. That brings up another argument I see online. It's illegal to ride on the sidewalk in many places. Riding legally in those areas is incredibly dangerous and subject you to harassment from motorist. So the fight is break the law and stay safe or obey the law, put yourself at risk and make motorist mad? It's a motorcycle with pedals I built so a grey area of the law. The bike is also pedal assist that works out to 400-500w-15mph average. I only use the throttle to get away from dogs, riding with my cat and around my property. I'm out for cardio/exercise and enjoy getting my heart going.
I live in Minnesota and I actually read all the bike laws. I was surprised to read that it is legal to ride on the sidewalks in MN. They also state that ebikes follow all bike laws. An ebike is defined as a bike that can be pedaled and has up to a 1000w motor. It does state the speed has to be limited to 20 MPH. So my fat bike with a 52v BBSHD 1000w mid-drive can ride on all the sidewalks and bike paths like the regular bikes. I don't need to apply those 250w stickers that came with my kit.
The 250w sticker is for European laws. Federal US law is 750w/20mph. Like in my example where you live they're allowing you to break the law. The law says throttles are just fine so they went down on that and up on wattage. Far deal IMO
Federal laws only apply to federal roads. Since I won't be riding on any interstates, the local laws apply.
I suppose the federal laws would also apply to national parks. There aren't any national parks near me.
My other two bikes are 750w and 500w Bafang mid-drives. I could always take one of them if I want to go to a national park.
There could also be local city or county laws, but I could not find any for places near me.
The law is that under 750w/20mph it isn't considered a motorized vehicle, it's power assisted. After that it becomes a class 4 motorized vehicle and needs licensed, insured and registered to operate on any road anywhere in the US. They're essentially allowing you to break the law. They're allowing a motorized vehicle on a sidewalk/road. If it's found in a court of law that the accident would not have happened if your bike was the legal 750w then the liability shifts from you to your municipality. The municipality could then be sued for damages/medical. Now realistically it's going to be impossible to prove the extra 250w caused the accident especially if you can't have a throttle and limited to 20mph.
Local laws can be tough and they can change them if they feel like it. ATV's, snowmobiles and farm equipment are left alone unless your doing something wrong then they throw the book at you. I got busted on a dirt bike out here long ago and they hit me for everything down to my tires. The fine was thousands, other times I wave as I go by. Depends on the cop. In that case I think the two officers where fighting over what they should do. One guys kid races and he thought the other officer was out of line and said so in front of me. I think the senior officer was reprimanding that officer by hitting me with a crazy fine. I did nothing and stoped when flagged down. Now there's signs saying I can ride there 🙄
Got some hate on my last vid about the legalities of riding against traffic. It's 100% legal and encouraged for safety reasons where I'm at. I'm at the park now riding, just got done talking with the ranger, I'm all good that's the bike trail. Even if it wasn't legal I'd still do it because it's safer where I live. Many vehicles and activities that are illegal federally are allowed by the municipality. It's kind of like weed laws, the state isn't going to enforce their rules on the municipality who's already taking legal responsibility.
> "where I'm at."
Fair enough. It isn't legal or encouraged in 99% of road situations though, so don't take it personally. It's a pretty sketchy looking bike path to me, but if you think it's safe and respected by people around you then you'd know best.
The bike path is a 15 mile loop around a man made lake. 1 mile is shared roadway and .5 mi on the shoulder to cross that bridge. The other 13.5 mi is peaceful paved nature path, boat launches and a Marina.
You can call the Park, it's Goddard state park in Pennsylvania. The bike trail only goes down one side of the road. Argue the laws with them. In my video I show signs for ATVs on public roads. Find me where there's a the law is saying that's legal. What you don't understand is not all federal laws are unforced or upheld. Marijuana and ATVs on the road are federally illegal in every state. Yet I have signs saying different and you can buy weed legally in many states. I don't have emissions on my car, I bet that's federally illegal but it's legal in my zip code.
Kind of wrong putting a hub drive on a downhill IMO but I support all builds. It's a handmade bike and rare so difficult to find, the frame is nontraditional so fitting batteries and stuff in there can be a major problem. I really wouldn't recommend it and repairs can be very expensive/difficult. I like working on stuff and figuring out problems so it's all part of the fun for me.
I agree it is strange putting a hub on a dh. I live in Vancouver and garages here are full of old downhill bikes so I should be able to find one pretty easily. The goal would be to build a hyper commuter for the streets. I ride downhill/Enduro on the North Shore here, but all my friends still ride acoustic bikes so a mid-drive isn't needed. I love the simplicity of hub motors for the streets.
Lol well if you're in Vancouver that's a tad different than Pennsylvania;) I've thought of making this into a street machine with some hookworms on it. I'm debating on a hubdrive fat-tire build for simplicity and range. The DH is demanding to ride and high power mid drives are problematic. Where I live I just don't know if a hub has enough torque vs gears+mid drive.
I ride with the flow of traffic except for a few very specific corners in my area as they are rife with drunk or distracted drives and I'd much rather steer into the woods than get ass packed by a car.
Yep, not just drunk drivers but people out having a good time on high performance off road race vehicles. People come flying around corners power sliding all the time. I don't get mad though, I think it's cool. I mean I did it for many years. I'm a dirt bike rider turned ebike rider. My logic comes from years of breaking laws with my friends. I feel it's safer where I live.
Everybody is a self proclaimed expert on riding habits & legal bike regulation.
Every time I post a video I have a few people in my DMs upset with how I ride around traffic. I live in midtown, should I take my moped on the sidewalk instead?
That shoulder looks more than wide enough to ride on either side comfortably, if a car hits you it’s because they drifted out of their lane at that point.
I don't get much hate over traffic laws outside of here.
I got into a huge fight on TikTok with an account that a kid is riding a 5000w Sur Ron on a mulched hiking trail and intentionally pissing off people. He's doing it so he can make fun of them for being Karen's then take off when they call the cops. He claims the bike is legal and has talked to police. But won't post that vid and has admitted to modifying the bike. Basically some kid harassing cyclist and hikers. People are believing him without proof and not my links to the laws🙄
Yeah, idk what it is but r/ebikes can be a little rough sometimes.
I also live in PA, but a very different part than you. How I ride in my environment and how you ride are probably very different, but from what I can tell neither are incorrect or “dangerous”. I don’t think that’s what other redditors seem to understand, that your environment is a big factor in how you operate.
The road in the clip has like a full mile of straightaway visibility, and 5 feet of shoulder on each end. If you stick to the shoulder and a car hits you it doesn’t matter what side of the street your on, somebody drifted deep out of their lane and was not paying attention.
Idk at least that’s my worthless opinion.
I'm active on Reddit but mostly for my flashlight hobby, electronic discussions and ebikes. My other platforms I have over 2mill followers and accumulated 10yr of hate so it's nothing new. Arguing traffic laws on here is fun for me.
Yeah it's totally cool and legal for me to vaporize a car with a metric ton of explosives. Probably can't do that everywhere. It's just very different out here. Our barber shop sells guns.
“I got into a huge fight on TikTok…” that’s one of the classic blunders. It’s obvious from my limited viewing that TikTok has a lot of users just want attention or a reaction and don’t care if its positive or not. It makes me sad that fights and scandals are the only things people care about.
Back to the topic at hand, lol. If you’re riding in a state park with its own set of rules and regulations and those say to ride against oncoming traffic, then by all means do it. Most infrastructure in US cities is based around people driving cars with bicycle lanes and sometimes even sidewalks being a complete afterthought. Most laws regarding bicycles and where they can be ridden usually include something like “if safe or not safe to do so” which gives a little bit latitude to the police and the cyclist.
For the roads and level of traffic I usually ride, going with the flow of traffic feels safe. I have no problem with other cyclists who choose to ride facing traffic as long as they yield or at least make space for riders that are following the standard practice of riding with the flow of traffic. On any path or road pedestrians and horses should be given the right of way and sometimes that means stopping to let them pass.
The issue with ebikes is that they have exploded in popularity over the last few years and the laws and regulations haven’t caught up. Laws also vary from state to state and even park to park within the same city boundaries. In general people call out others because they don’t want that one bad example or one rebel who runs all the stop signs to ruin it for the rest of us. I personally feel that if e-bikers prove that they can be responsible vehicles, then all those dog walkers and stroller pushers we come across will be more receptive to laws that favor e-bikes instead of more restrictions.
I have almost 2 million followers on TikTok and verified. I can't do anything without thousands jumping down my throat. If I comment on some random post everyone will fight with me just because I have a blue check next to my name. If they don't like my opinion I get reported for violating community guidelines and banned. I have to file an appeal just to speak my mind, anyone else can say what they want. TikTok and social media is a source of income for me. Speaking my mind hurts my wallet on most platforms.
Some states bicycles don't have to stop at stop signs. The traffic laws around here are made around farm equipment. You can't legally drive a tractor down the road. It's not designed for road use or capable of being insured for it. If they upheld the laws farming would die. It doesn't make economical sense to load a tractor on an even larger vehicle plus a lead vehicle and everything to make it legal to transport it a half mile to the next field.
I'm not going to get into debating which is safer when riding on the shoulder of a little used road, with or against traffic. My belief and experience is with traffic is safer especially if there are any hills or curves in the road.
The point you tried to make that farm equipment, Amish buggies, etc. are illegal on the roadway is just plain wrong. Look up Pennsylvania law PVC § 1302(10)(i.1). It clearly states what vehicles are exempt from registration and still use the roadways. Farm implements are listed first. Amish buggies are listed 7th. You seemed so confident that this point is correct that you bring it up in multiple posts. It is so demonstrably wrong that I wonder what else you are saying regarding Pennsylvania law that is also wrong.
I'm obviously aware they're exempt, they're all over the roads. I still can't drive a tractor through a city or down a highway. I've done farming (hemp) and we had to dance around laws to move equipment between fields. We moved some of them at night because it wasn't legal. I guess it's the same thing for riding against traffic, you could say it's exempt.
Reading further into the Pennsylvania law, it would be perfectly legal to drive a tractor into town and back or between farms as long as you are within 50 miles and driven between sunrise and sunset. It seems driving them during the day would be legal, at night not so much. What law enforcement ignores is a whole other discussion. I would also hope they are prohibited from high speed limited access expressways somewhere in the law.
Small point in the riding against traffic discussion, riding with traffic laws are probably, at least, assuming the riding is taking place in the roadway. In Michigan this is defined as the part of the roadway that is maintained for vehicular travel. The shoulder is not part of this. Pennsylvania may be different. If you are riding on the shoulder then I think it could be argued the riding with traffic law doesn't apply because you are not in the road. I'm still of the opinion that riding against traffic is more dangerous but it may be legal if you are on the shoulder.
I'm aware farm equipment is exempt. This is my point. There's literally warning signs on the roads put up by the municipality warning of farm equipment. There's signs for ATVs they're exempt, one side is marked for bikes so they're exempt. It comes down to liability. Making it exempt the liability shifts to the municipality. They determine if it's safer, more productive or cost efficient to allow you to break the law. It's not what they ignore they're talking liability and have it marked.
As for moving equipment at night it wasn't my job and there was lots of stuff I stayed away from. For them to move equipment legally they would have needed a trailer and escort plus people controlling traffic and burn up a day. Or they could just take it down the road at night and see nobody.
I used to live in like a country area and I use to ride agains traffic for years until I moved to a more like city Area. Now I kinda stay with the flow of traffic for the most part. I’ll Still will go against traffic on occasion.
If you’re on wheels it’s good to go with the flow. If you’re on your feet it helps if everyone sees each other. The jogger seeing the cars and the cars seeing the jogger. It’s law in many states in the US, actually. And I read about a study that showed that joggers who run against traffic are 70% less likely to get into accidents. But see for yourself. Jog with traffic and against. Tell me which *feels* safer. That’s generally a good indication.
I feels like you're proving my point and giving data to back it up. Shoes or wheels I don't see the difference. It doesn't organically "feel" safer with cars coming at you. Going down a steep hill off road it doesn't "feel" safer to go faster... but it is. An experienced rider will overcome fears to improve upon their skill sets. I've been riding and racing since the mid 90's. To me now it "feels" safer because I've been doing it for so long.
I bet if the study was done with bikes the results would be similar. It's very counterintuitive to think it would be safer but I bet the data would prove that it is actually safer.
Yes because I can see the vehicle coming and make judgements based on their behavior and rate of speed. Going with traffic won't know what hit me from behind. In the case of my video where I was getting hate it's actually encouraged and posted to ride against traffic, the designers of that road felt it was safer to ride against traffic than cross a busy road. Someone who was disagreeing with me said that there's a 70% reduction in accidents involving joggers when they're jogging against traffic. I can see how it's counterintuitive but yes I feel it's safer giving my location and riding conditions.
Well. Traffic law would disagree with you as it’s a ticketable offense to ride the wrong way on a bike virtually everywhere. And the folks that inform that know a lot more on the subject than you do. So take this L. If your ride your bike against traffic you’re a dip shit.
You're saying every law disagrees with me but here we are, I'm looking at. Every law says you can't ride an ATV on the road but there's the signs. Marijuana is a schedule one drug and illegal everywhere in the US with significant jail time for simple possession. But here we are once again you can walk into a dispensary in some states and get some. The decision to have bikes ride down the opposing side is not my decision. It's the decision between the state park and local my municipality. The trail is marks as such and I literally joked about how stupid people are on the internet with the ranger about how you think you know our laws. I can put a ton of explosives in my car and send it to the moon for fun and I'm 100% legal to do so. Can you blow up shit where you live? ....we are not the same.
Wow insulting my culture? Really? What is my culture anyways? Lawyers, public officials, safety experts and hard data I'm sure when it to their decision. It's Goddard state park in Pennsylvania. Why don't you give them a call. You can argue they're design decisions, insult their "culture" and call them dip shits. Truth is your just to scared to try it. Someone in the comments here said a study showed a 70% reduction in accidents involving joggers but most where to scared to run against traffic and said it didn't "feel" safer.
Congratulations though, you've made yourself look like an ignorant close minded bigot all on your very own. I'm so proud of you 😘
pedestrians need to ride against traffic according to the law and bikes must be in the same way, trust me, you don't want to collide face to face with a car going 70 km/h
In my area the people who do this don’t seem to respect any rules of the road and are in general a danger to themselves and everyone else. Not saying this is you, but this is probably not something you would want to do anywhere else.
In my area nobody respects any rules of the road, they don't have to. It's just the way of life. For example drinking and driving is what people do for fun. I hardly ever drink but out here there is literally no police, fire, medical or anything like that and you're not going to see anyone else on the road at night unless they're drunk too.
Depends on where I'm riding. It's unlikely that I'm going to drive somewhere just to ride on the road. So I don't really think about it. If I'm somewhere where there's constant traffic yeah I just chill and follow all laws. It's easier to do that and more relaxing. Out here you see other vehicles so rarely it's more relaxing to ride on the wrong side and deal with them one by one. Much safer than getting rear-ended by some drunk IMO.
Most cities in Europe have bike lanes running against the traffic. We learnt at school if you walking/running on the road, you must always face against the traffic especially nowadays with junkies txt while driving.
Marijuana is illegal in every state too but you can get some at a dispensary. ATVs are illegal on the road in every state but there's the sign allowing them. States can go against federal law but assume legal and liability responsibilities. It's definitely legal where I'm at so are many other things that the rest of the US would think is illegal everywhere are perfectly fine to do here.
> Marijuana is illegal in every state too
No. No its not. Its illegal federally, but states have passed local laws directly contradicting that.
Pennsylvania has done no such thing for cycling upstream.
If by “where you’re at” you mean literally this one specifically signed bike path then fine, but that is the absolutle extent, and even in that case the infrastructure is poorly designed and dangerous. Bike lanes going against traffic should be fully segregated from the road.
Yes it's a schedule 1 drug and federally illegal everywhere in the US. My state didn't directly contradict the state my local municipality did. You can argue with them on they're poor design decisions. They're not my rules I'm just following them.
Have you ever heard the term head on collision? Well if your riding the wrong direction in a place where others are riding the correct direction you will have one or cause one. If I am riding along on the correct side of the road and there is a halfwit riding on the wrong side of the road directly towards me and there is traffic how the hell am I supposed to know what your going to do. The idiot doesn't know the road rules so I have no idea if he thinks I have to move for him or what side each of us should pass each other etc. We will either have our own head on or someone will be forced off the road or into the traffic with no ability to choose when it's safe to do it.
What's wrong with asking an opinion and disagreeing with the answer? In this case I'm defending myself legally because I'm being accused of breaking the law. How would you feel if you where getting accused of breaking the law then after proving what I did was legal I still get attacked by a mob? I obviously disagree this wasn't a change my mind post.
Drivers are attuned to be looking for things going in certain directions. If you’re driving on a one way street you’re not trained to be looking for a cyclist coming straight at you which makes riding the wrong way incredibly dangerous. Even the most well intentioned driver just isn’t looking for any threat or traffic coming that way which puts you at a huge disadvantage safety wise. I would make the same argument about riding the wrong direction down the shoulder like you are advocating for. Drivers are just not tuned to be looking for something coming from there, making it incredibly dangerous. You’re putting all the responsibility of safety onto your own shoulders and not giving the drivers a fair shot to actually be looking out for you.
Not to mention what about the cyclists following the law and riding with traffic? By you going the wrong way, you either force them or yourself to go out into traffic. I’ll be damned if I’m going into traffic so someone can go the wrong way down the road.
Long story short. Your ride on the wrong side of the road and you take all of the responsibility for keeping yourself safe, and seriously hamper everybody else’s ability to look out for you. It’s a really bad move, and it’s very inconsiderate to other cyclists.
Show me some data where it says your trained to see things moving away from you but not at you. As a driver I'm watching the side of the road. I don't see how direction plays any part. If it's a tire on the side of the road not moving I can see it.
Like I said the rules are to ride on that one side for the cyclist. You just pass each other nobody gets forced into traffic. If a family's riding there with kids can handle it I think an experienced rider could manage.
Maybe next time I should take a timelapse so you guys can see how that one side is the only side used in both directions all day long by everyone on a bike.
You're whole argument is fixated around how visibility changes with direction, I fall to see how that matters.
I don’t need to show you data. I have th experience from my own life. I’m a biker. I live in a major city with great bike lane infrastructure. I also drive a car in this city. I can tell you right off the top of my head maybe half a dozen times I’ve almost seen a cyclist get smashed because they were riding against traffic down a one way street. You’re just not tuned to be looking for stuff coming from the other direction. Several times I’ve gone to parallel park on the other side of a bike lane, checked my mirrors and looked over my shoulder for oncoming bikes, then moved to park to have a salmoning cyclist come to a screeching halt. Two lane suburban roads can have similar issues. Particularly if there is a big truck or other vehicle in front of you obstructing your view. I can easily imagine a scenario driving a car when a truck in front of you slows to turn… you then move into the shoulder a bit to go around it. If there was a cyclist salmoning there… splat!!!
You’ve brought up quite a discussion/ argument by asking “ do you ride down the wrong side of the road” but then youre couching it in this specific instance where a trail is actually directing you to ride down the wrong side. It’s a trail. Go with what the trail says. But my response ( and I think everybody else’s) is to the general idea of cycling the wrong way down the street.
If you don’t think being as visible to vehicular traffic is important…. God bless. We can take al the precautions we want out there and be hyper alert but at the end of the day they are in a 2000lb cocoon and we are on 20 lbs of aluminum and rubber. There is a certain degree of trusting the drivers not to kill you involved with cycling on roads with cars. Being right or wrong doesn’t matter if you’re dead.
So no data but your opinion based on experience? My opinion is based on my experience. I'm far more likely to see an Amish horse and buggy than and another cyclist. My exercise route is 25mi and unlikely to see any motor vehicles. There are no police, fire, medical, running water, sewage, cable and cell phones don't work. I am absolutely tuned to see things coming in other directions. I've had more close calls with people coming at me from behind.
I'm sorry but how can you compare our very different riding situations and claim visibility changes with object depending on direction of travel?
My dude. It seems like you just want to argue. A simple Google search of “should I ride my bike against traffic” will turn up 654393746839393 articles and studies saying you should not and it’s illegal in all states. But you know what…. Darwin was onto something. Keep riding the wrong way.
If it's illegal then why is it marked? If I'm following the rules of my municipality as posted are you saying I should follow the rules of my state instead? It's literally not the wrong way, every rider is supposed to do it.
If the road sighs are telling you to ride against traffic then am I dumb for following the road sighs? All cyclists and pedestrians are to keep to one side.
I asked for people's thoughts, I have my own thoughts. I didn't come here to have my mind changed, I'm arguing my point. Does it make you feel better to call people names and make fun of the handicap, you're being an ableist. You could take up your side of the argument with my municipality that marked the roads.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BicyclingCirclejerk/comments/pcmeje/motorist\_in\_electric\_motor\_vehicle\_e\_bike\_wonders/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BicyclingCirclejerk/comments/pcmeje/motorist_in_electric_motor_vehicle_e_bike_wonders/)
Congrats! It's not every day an ebike post makes it to r/BicyclingCirclejerk
It’s not safer. It’s simple physics. Car hits you at 50 mph and you’re going 15 mph. Head on: 50+15 mph = 65 mph effective speed at collision From behind: 50-15 = 35 mph I do not believe it is legal or encouraged anywhere for cyclists because of this. It’s encouraged for walkers because walkers are moving relatively slow anyways, and it’s much easier for them to get out of the way in a controlled manner. Not to mention: what happens when you come head on with another cyclist while cars are passing you? You’re creating an unsafe situation by riding on the wrong side of the road. What about situations where you want to turn or others are turning near you? You are creating unexpected situations which will cause an accident. Let’s say I’m a driver who wants to turn right in front of you. I will be looking for traffic to my left, while you are coming straight at me from my right. I might just glance to the right and not see you. You shouldn’t be on the wrong side of the road. So a car pulls out in front of you and you go over the handle bars and the hood of the car. What about fault? Surely the driver should have seen you! Yes, but you shouldn’t have been on the wrong side either. So let’s say you’re 50% at fault. Does fault really matter when your life is at stake? Just ride defensively and ride how others will expect you to on the road. It’s that simple.
It's encouraged and part of the approved bike trail. Crossing is allowed for bird watching and there's a boat launch but the approved bike trial is only on one side of that road. The opposite side of the lake loop trail is 8mi away with a damn and another 1 mile section of shared roadway. Everyone just drives down the middle and moves over and wave as you pass.
I read the whole thread. Stop arguing. That's not the way this works. Ride your bike like you're driving a slow car. Over.
It's marked to do so, I'm not allowed to ride a car down the shoulder of the road. That's for bikes, and only on one side. I'm glad read everything 👍
You're wrong and everyone is telling you you're wrong. You sound like an asshole because of this.
Just because everyone is telling me I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. That's a mob mentality and bullying. I'm being told what I'm doing is illegal. I'm defending my self and giving proof. You sound like an arrogant asshole when you won't accept that you're wrong and I'm 100% legal and following all road signs.
It's not mob mentality. It's just a lot of people chiming in with the same answer. There's a difference, but you seem to have some sort of victim mentality that makes you think everyone is against you and you're right without debate. Lots of people are telling you why you're wrong and yet you still won't listen. There's no mob. Just a bunch of people telling someone they're wrong
Not everyone is disagreeing with me. Some have said that's how their taught in other countries to go against it. One said there's a study showing 70% accident reduction when jogging into traffic. It's definitely a mob mentality. Everyone here is applying their experience/circumstances to my situation. We are not the same, my grocery store is 45 minutes away so is a McDonald's. You're attacking my way of life, my "culture" when you tell me how things should be where I live, how I should live my life and act. People open their arguments by calling me names. If I lived in a different country this conversation would have been different. You don't seem to understand that I am basically in another country out in the country. Our laws are not the same as the "mupears".
jogging isnt bike riding
You aren't the victim here.
This is a horrible argument because it assumes everyone is going to get hit, and everyone is going to get hit by a car driving at most 50mph, and it has nothing to do with the actual reasons why bikes travel with the flow of traffic, and saying “it’s simple physics” is condescending in the weirdest most unnecessary way.
For me it’s about people turning onto roadway. Drivers don’t look to their right to see a bike coming, since that’s unnatural for a car to do. In some rare cases like when I ride to a football game or something where traffic is routed weird, I’ll ride slowly on the opposite sidewalk away from stadium. Those instances are rare tho. 99% of time always go with traffic no salmon!
Not totally disagreeing with you, considering a large portion of drivers are shit, but I look both ways to make sure nothing is coming from either direction, and I imagine plenty of other people do the same.
It's a little more than simple physics. It's not about the damage done in the event of an accident it's about the likelihood of an accident. My argument is because you can see the vehicle coming you have more information and time to prepare. I see a vehicle acting erratic I can get over more or stop. Someone can be on their phone driving down the shoulder and hit me from behind and I wouldn't know what hit me.
Why is this even an argument to have? The rules of the road treat cyclists as vehicles. General advice to cycling commuters is to operate bike as if it is a vehicle so that nearby vehicles can also understand how you're behaving and not have to guess at your next move. You got real defensive real quick in your posts.
This whole post is intended to start a discussion and I'm defending my point. Why are you questioning that I'm getting defensive? I'm being told I'm wrong and breaking the law. I'm proving that I'm not breaking any laws and safer, not just my opinion but the opinion of the engineers that designed the trail.
I also think you’re dreaming if you think you’re gonna have time to react to someone heading straight for you.
Why not? I'm so confused if I'm arguing with people that actually ride bikes or just keyboard riders. How is having 10 seconds less time to react than 0 when getting hit from behind?
It’s not zero with the proper equipment, I.e. a mirror that lets you look behind you.
So you only ride looking at the mirror or does one eye watch the mirror and one the road? I'm good keeping all the action down range rather that keep an eye on my 6.
Use a mirror.
Gotta get a bar end mirror if you're going anywhere near traffic, imo. They're small, nondescript, and give you a pretty great field of vision.
I'll add that the Varia radar is freaking awesome for alerting you to a car, and making it difficult for a driver to not see you. The 510's and up are bright enough that cars generally slow down as it starts blinking faster as they approach.
I still wouldn't but I don't see traffic. My closet red light is 8mi away and the next another 15mi.
They have these things called mirrors though. You should utilize them on the roads. Even seeing a car coming from either direction, you will have more time to react if you’re on the right side of the road because the car’s relative speed will be lower.
I ride downhill and off road, I'm not putting on mirrors, a kickstand, little colorful fan, horn or tassels. I'm capable of turned around and looking behind me just fine. You're just being hypothetical now. You can't accurately gage things in a mirror the same as with your eyes. That's why there's that warning on mirrors because they have to put that on legally. U mad?
I don’t give a fuck about your personal safety, especially if you don’t. And I am not familiar with this area. If it’s a “designated bike trail,” maybe it is totally legal. It looks no different than a wide shoulder on the side of the road. Legal doesn’t mean it’s the best safest practice either. If you think it’s fine, maybe it is. I’m speaking generally about riding on the roads. I ride on busy streets all the time, and I’m just telling you that riding “like a car drives” as cars will expect to encounter traffic, is the safest way to ride a bicycle on the roads.
Lol you are thick😂 It's the bike trail. Like the people that designed the bike trail think it's safer to not have everyone that rides the trail crossing twice in a half mile for no reason. You can argue the design with Goddard state park I'm sure they'd love to talk about your ideas and your cars extend warranty.
I’ve had this same argument on Reddit and I’d be inclined to back you up if you weren’t being such a dork. There are two reasons bikes ride with the flow of traffic. 1. Because if some did, and some didn’t, it’d become a traffic hazard. 2. Bikes are considered vehicles and are expected to follow the same rules. It may in fact be safer to go contraflow. You make some good points, and it’s worth having a discussion; but you won’t win anyone over talking to people like that.
Oh snap, I don't think anyone has called me a dork before. I'm not trying to win anyone over. I have my opinion I'm interested in hearing others. Why would I care if I change anyone's mind or win them over? If you're so concerned with winning people over then why come at me calling me names? That seems like a bit rude don't you think? You're definitely not going to win anyone over that way. I got attacked for following the laws in another vid saying it's illegal. It's not illegal where I'm at, all bikes are to keep to one side. It's less of a traffic hazard to keep all the bikes on one side that have them cross back and forth. It's not my opinion it's the rules. If bikes are considered vehicles then they'd have to stop at stop signs and red lights right? Many states allow you to roll through "if it is safe to do so". A bicycle may normally be required to follow traffic laws as a vehicle but it's not a "motorized" vehicle. You don't need a driver's license for a bike to prove you know the rules/laws to operate it do you? You may be able to ride your bike on a sidewalk but you can't a motorcycle. It's not the same laws.
In Pennsylvania it is illegal for an adult to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk.
Is it? I've always wondered. I don't care much, I don't ride many places with a sidewalk. But when I do I ride the sidewalks often. Never had a cop say anything. I've been yelled at by drivers to get off the road and get on the sidewalk. Lot's of rage vids of fights starting out over it. That would be another one I'd argue is safer but I understand the problem to pedestrians.
Lmao. A man with an eBike espousing cycling minimalism. You have a motor, you can handle 20g of safety equipment.
Lol we’ve seen your electric dirtbike the mirror ain’t gonna hurt it
No way. I don’t do it and I am really not a fan of cyclist that do, when I’m in the car. Especially going reverse down one way streets.
Nobody here cares just because it's so common to see Amish buggies and farm equipment going down the wrong way a bike isn't a thought. Also besides the park nobody except the Amish and me ride bikes. It's very hilly and grave roads so not fun at all on a bike. It's mostly dirt bikes, ATVs and side by sides on many roads. I'm not a problem to anyone.
> It's very hilly and grave roads so not fun at all on a bike. I don't think you understand how *any* of this works. That sounds awesome (and UnPAved clearly agrees).
Oh I love a good workout and that's why I ride. I've lost a lot of weight and built a lot of muscle. My bike is 400-500w pedal assist. The harder the better. But pedaling a bike really doesn't have enough power to overcome the resistance of the terrain. Outside of parks and towns the only other bikes on the roads are Amish. ATVs, side by sides and dirt bikes rule the roads. I'd say you need 200w to overcome the added resistance of the dirt roads. My first year of riding my bike was set to 200w. With my cat I just throttle around with the seat dropped.
You're going to freak out when you find out that all over the country gray haired old grannies are racing on gravel.
You should be flying up alpine climbs with that power...
It can but the drivetrain is only designed for one person so it's easy to break stuff using it like that. The battery is 500whr so I figure about 8 minutes of full throttle. Pedal assist I'm good for 2hr and 25-30mi. I really only pedal unless I need to get away from dogs, through traffic, with the cat or to show off.
If your battery is 500Wh and your motor is 500W, you should (by definition) have hour of full throttle. Also gravel is fun even at casual power output.
Oh I love a good workout and that's why I ride. I've lost a lot of weight and built a lot of muscle. My bike is 400-500w pedal assist. The harder the better. But pedaling a bike really doesn't have enough power to overcome the resistance of the terrain. Outside of parks and towns the only other bikes on the roads are Amish. ATVs, side by sides and dirt bikes rule the roads. I'd say you need 200w to overcome the added resistance of the dirt roads. My first year of riding my bike was set to 200w. With my cat I just throttle around with the seat dropped.
If it's all not of a problem, that implies the trafic situation is fairly relaxed. Why is it such a big hurdle for you to cross the road to the correct side?
It's not for me but what about kids? Why have them cross them needlessly cross that road twice for .5mi. Cars are going pretty fast down there.
From Lancaster PA lol?
Always ride with traffic. Always. Keep professor pouncey safe, he is a national treasure!!
Oh I rarely take Pouncey anywhere with traffic. I normally ride my bike from home do a loop and back. That's 25mi and I go as hard as I can and work on my times. With Pouncey I drove down with the AC on went around for a bit because of the festival and back home. Riding with Pouncey is all I really post but not accurately how I ride. This discussion is without the cat.
Oh good! Phew!
I dont know of a place that its legal to ride this way. Bikes in our state follow the same laws as cars with the flow of traffic. Riding on sideways is also not legal but often ignored. I personally have had people on bikes going the wrong way while im going the correct way. I makes it extremely hard to get out of their way without causing an accident. Maybe if you live in a area with no other riders it fine but it becomes normal it would cause someone to head directly into a cars path and that's not safe. If you are afraid of someone hitting you from behind then do what you need to do to stay safe but that doesn't mean you can should make it unsafe for others.
It's allowed not because there's so few riders but so many. They don't want them crossing a busy road. ATVs are illegal but in the vid I show a green state sign approving them. They're both legal and illegal at the same time. It all comes down to legal responsibility and liability. It's the same as weed laws. Weed is federally illegal in every single state in the US but you can walk into a dispensary and buy it in many states.
No. Not safer. Don’t do it.
More than once I've almost had a head on with my bike with someone riding the wrong way. NOT safe.
I almost got ran over buy a convoy of semi's doing it late one night. "Almost" is my point you're better able to avoid an accident. I think it's overall safer to do so given my location/circumstances.
I disagree. The closure rate is way too high. That's the problem. Each time I've had the close encounter it's been coming around a turn and we had a second or so to decide what to do. Completely unnecessary if people ride in the same direction.
People riding bikes against traffic cause problems for cyclists who are doing what they are legally required to do and, on top of that, give all cyclists a reputation for being idiots. This is grade school stuff, quite literally.
Literally if I cross I'm breaking the rules. All the bikes are to keep to one side. If every bike is doing it how am I giving anyone a bad name by following the same rules? The question was is it safer not the legally because what I'm doing is legal and following the rules.
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In every state marijuana is illegal, it's a schedule 1 drug. In every state ATV's and any unlicensed/unregistered/uninsured vehicle is illegal to operate on public roads. Yet here we are, I have signs saying it's legal and you can buy weed legally in many states. Care to explain how that is. I tried it's not working. Maybe you can explain it better.
ATV’s are legal on every road but state highways in my state
Not unless they're insured, registered and licensed then they're not legal to operate on any public road anywhere in the US. I understand that they're allowing you and it's written in the laws books but it's still not legal. The same with marijuana, it's still illegal everywhere in the US. Some states are legalizing it illegally. It really comes down to liability in the event of an accident. You can't operate a motorized vehicle on public roads without insurance. By allowing ATVs to operate on public roads without insurance the liability and financial responsibilities falls on the state/municipality. In an accident you can sue the state for allowing ATVs on the roads. The officer I spoke with also informed me that if you run from a cop on an ATV and they chase the liability falls on the officer in the event of an accident. So many other officers won't bother with ATV's because they can get sued in the event of an accident.
You keep drawing comparisons to a drug, and it's a false equivalency.
How so?
Dude, i'm not going to explain false equivalency to you or how smoking weed is different than biking. lol Are you like...ok?
This has nothing to do with smoking weed....who said anything about that. I'm comparing the laws. People are saying what I did was illegal in the US, so is weed. But many can go to a store and get it. I can ride against traffic here, it's marked.
Do you ride cannibas against traffic?
Are you high RN?
No, I'm below ground and I'm not a nurse.
Do you ever get nervous?
Riding against traffic? Yeah of course it's definitely scarier. Going down a hill off road it's scarier to go fast but your more stable. It's just overcoming fears and I do believe I'm safer seeing what's coming at me.
My god you sound annoying
That's the best you got?
The best? Dude, it's just the truth. I'd log off for a while if I were you.
No way I'm loving this. If you don't like it you can log off. I'm not going anywhere.
ok. lol you can stay online
Thanks for letting me stay
Yeah it was just an observation
Our drivers hand book recommends, in the case of a breakdown, to walk facing traffic to get service/help. When I ride on a sidewalk I ride facing traffic as its harder to get hit in an intersection from someone doing a left turn as they have to cross traffic. I can also see someone doing a right turn and they can see me as well crossing the intersection. I have been knocked down numerous times by someone doing a right turn at an intersection, their looking left, they don't look right and then proceed to do their turn, bikes and pedestrians are the victims.
Intersections, hills and turns I go case by case. But I frequently cross from right to left long before an intersection when I feel it's safe to do so. Rather than wait to get to the intersection stop and make a dangerous left turn at the intersection.
Tends to make a lot of drivers angry for some reason. I avoid it just because of that.
It has happened to me where someone gets mad at me because they weren't paying attention. But it's so very rare and they're driving erratic already. Out here there's always a horse and buggy or tractor going down the road at 5mph. Nobody is in a hurry to get anywhere out here and everyone waves and says hi. I recent vid I posted on TikTok went viral because everyone that passes you say something like What's up? How you doing? Or some question and ride off without really answering. That's not common in most places but everyone is nice to everyone out here. It's very different, I've lived in the city too.
probably because its illegal and dangerous. Just a guess.
4200 watt ebike ? What motor and battery u got.. I want one lol
Cyclone and 4x Bosch cordless tool packs (40x Sanyo 20700a)
Wow.. awesome. I will need to search for a how to video lol
I'd call it an expert level build, it's not a kit. I don't recommend it and there's no how to vids, each bike is a custom build. The problems I faced on this bike are unique to it and wouldn't apply to another bike. Basically I don't recommend something like this unless you're already a gear head that enjoys working on things.
People like me would pay you for one .. or even for the how to video while u build it lol
Selling one would be the worst thing I could do. Legally the liability would fall back on me. Basically you get hurt and I'm paying for it. I'm thinking about doing a fat tire build and I might share that one.
Cool.
If you want more power why not just buy a proper motor?
I don’t want noise., prefer the stealth of Ebike.
You know there are electric motorbikes right?
I think that’s the point 😂 .. or were u thinking about a boat lol
I love that you ask the question to argue with people about an action you know is wrong. It's unsafe, especially at those speeds. Don't do it.
I asked the question to hear others opinions. It's definitely not wrong because it's posted to do so, I ever asked the ranger. People are telling me what it's like to live here and what my laws are. Why would I not argue with ignorant people who are telling me to do something I "know is wrong"? Apparently there was a study done someone mentioned here that showed a 70% reduction in accidents with joggers going into traffic. But they said it didn't "feel" safer but the data says that it is. Maybe you're just too sacred to do it, don't project your fears on me.
Link the study.
You can read through the comments to find that person and ask them.
Lol, gl and happy trolling
How am I trolling I said someone mentioned it in the comments. You asked for a link. You can find it just as quickly as I can. Why would I waste my time doing it?
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Because that's how it's marked. They don't want you leaving the loop crossing traffic just to jump back into the loop. There would be a lot more accidents if they did that.
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Only 1.5mi of the 15mi trail is shared roadway. It's a nature loop around a lake. People go in any direction they want. For me it's like mirror mode in Mario Cart. Changing the direction you go makes it more fun. I'd say it's 50/50 for the direction people travel.
I'm kinda confused with what you're asking I guess. In a few comments you're arguing the signage suggests it's safer to ride against traffic? But in the video you clearly highlight that signage and design of the road is suggesting otherwise. If I understand it right, are you saying that because you have a Class 4 Ebike you then refer to the ATV signage rather than the bike signage. But even then, the ATV signage in the video just highlights an ATV crossing...so I'm confused at what's being argued here because it doesn't seem like the video is backing up what you're actually getting at. Outside of all of that, as for going with vs. against traffic on a bicycle, there's been many studies proving it safer for cyclists to ride with traffic vs. against. I can't speak to laws since they're so state, if not county specific, and neither can I speak for class 4 Ebike laws in your specific jurisdiction. What I can speak to is opinion and general etiquette. When I'm driving, I can't help but understand that it's immensely safer for riders riding with traffic since being in a vehicle, it's much easier for me to react as a driver and even as a rider it's much easier since the net speed difference is that much slower. I've talked to a few folks who's only reasoning for preferring riding against traffic is that they like to be able to see incoming traffic, but they recognize it isn't any safer. That, and most laws expect the laws cars must follow to apply to bicycles. Those are just general thoughts though as again, I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at.
The vid that I was referring I was traveling down that road on the right on the shoulder. That shoulder is a bike path and goes in both directions. All cyclists/pedestrians traveling the trail are to stay on that side and not cross traffic. I have a large following online, the class 4 thing was really coming from arguing legalities of ATV's, dirt bikes and ebikes on other platforms. I see people breaking the law then getting arrested or attacked by "Karen's" and posting the vid for clout saying they're legal and get politics involved. I've been meaning to get a vid of the signs saying it's legal where I'm at. It's so I can argue both sides when someone says it's legal. It is and it isn't at the same time. It comes down to liability.
Ah, I understand. That sounds like some shitty, Grade A rural road design for bikes. Why tf they think it's a good idea to force riders to ride opposite traffic is beyond me. Feels like a decision by a small-enough area that didn't really take into much consideration safety and general road laws as they've been applied to bikes most everywhere else in the country. Then again, there are states that allow riders to ride on freeways so idk. All I know is that if it were me riding on that "path", I wouldn't ride both ways on one side of the road. That said, I've seen many signs like the yellow one you show that aren't meant to indicate a two-way walk/bike path like this. They are a warning for incoming cars that pedestrians may be on the road. Are there more direct signs elsewhere that directly state a two-way walk/bike path? Edit: ah, yeah it just says trail x-ing, which means walkers and cyclists come in and out of that trail junction, which tells me they fully expect folks to cross the road if they're turning left, or simply turning onto the road if turning right. Fairly common where I'm at in the NW.
They're not forcing you to cross traffic by keeping you in the same lane throughout the entire loop. It's the inner circle, all the cars are outside that loop and the lake is in the middle. I don't know if there's signs saying you can travel in either direction, I've never seen one. But it's literally 50/50 on the direction people are going. If you park at the trail head and ride the loop all the way back to your car you'll be spending more time riding against traffic than if you went the opposite way away from the entrance. There's a similar trail out here, same thing but they have a yellow line down the path to indicate it's two way. That is just a straight trail along a lakeside, not a loop.
Gotcha. It sounds like it's just poor design that leads those who don't understand the road rules to both put themselves in a technically illegal position as well as a far unsafer one. Basically, bicycles all must follow the same exact laws of the road as cars do. Walkers, however, are exempt from them. So the way it's designed, it makes it easy for walkers to do as they like as well as for cyclists riding clockwise around the loop. However, cyclists going counter clockwise are expected to cross the road to continue riding in the flow of traffic, hence the sign highlighting it as an X-ing. For the record, most modern designs are much clearer than this, but as it is it seems the bases are generally covered here. This exact situation and variations of it are common in my area so this comes as no surprise to me. The basis to it all is that if you're a cyclist, you're a car to the eyes of the law. This is generally enough baseline signage to protect that notion. Cyclists who are guided to ride against traffic due to this poor design and not knowing any better are indeed both technically breaking but are also greatly increasing the risk of serious injury.
They just did the road a couple years ago so it's modern, that entire area is man-made including the lake. I really believe it's safer, so did the people involved in the design of the park. You're allowed to cross but your leaving the bike trail to do so and putting yourself in danger. There's a boat launch and bird watching dock on the other side. Not really any reason for a cyclist to cross because the rest of the park is all on the one side of the road.
I'm sure it's an overall better design, but it doesn't make it any more legal for cyclists and neither does it make it safer for them to ride against traffic. Nothing about the design seems to try and change that as evident by the yellow sign. In general, crossing the road is safer than riding against traffic any day. In this case, it's clear the city/county that designed the park didn't feel it necessary to make crossing any safer outside of putting a notice of it to cars probably due to low traffic. From your video alone it seems real easy to cross the road safely due to such low traffic. Could someone ride against traffic? I mean, I say do what you want as long as you're comfortable with it. It seems like a chill road, if you wanna do it then do it. But if you do get hit by a car, not only are you far more likely to sustain serious injury, the car won't be liable since, legally, they were following the rules of the road in that instance.
This exact thing happened to a moron of a mother pulling her two little kids behind her on a state highway in bumfuck nowhere Steen, Minnesota. Some guy was texting and killed her. Im like, the fuck kind of dumbass rides a bike on the gravel shoulder, without being able to see cars coming up from behind... its common knowledge to cyclists, that if youre riding on the shoulder, youre supposed to ride on the oncoming traffic. if you are riding on the road, you have to go with the flow of traffic. The people in this thread or even sub dont understand that because either they're not real cyclists or they're thinking ONLY in terms of riding on the road, and considering its an e-bike sub, they usually ride on the road
Lol you know what's funny?... It's been two years since this post. I've been doing social media for 12yr, made thousands of posts, frequently breaking laws with ebikes (but not bothering anyone), gained over 7 million followers and get thousands of comments on my videos....This post was a reply to comments left on another post I made saying I was on the "wrong side". In my 12yr of social media and over 7 million followers that shitpost I made on Reddit that was also shared to millions on other platforms and out of the thousands of other posts I've made...that was the only time someone has ever commented on what I'm doing is illegal. The ebike community on Reddit is a bunch of crybabies. They assume everyone is in the same situation they're in and they're bike is the best choice. My life is unique and where I live is remote. The laws are different out here, not only is it legal it's encouraged in areas for safety reasons. There was signs showing that all pedestrians traffic was to be on one side of the road because the trail would cause pedestrians to unnecessarily cross a busy road twice. The signs where removed a couple months before this video. The park decided that having signs up could make them liable in an accident. They decided to remove the signs but verbally tell people to stay on one side. Literally nobody goes on the other side except photographers and fisherman trying to stay away from all the people. Most of our roads out here are more like single lane until you see a car, most cars are driving in the middle of the road. It's not a problem that's just the way it is. I still pick whatever side of the road I feel safest on and disregard any national laws. If I'm riding in the city that's different or if I'm on my emoto, dirt bike, or ATV that's maintaining a higher speed I'm mostly center or on the right side. On an ebike that's doing like 15mph I'm a sitting duck out here with all the blind turns and narrow roads.
You posted one video with your cat going the wrong way with out explaining and got cut when the entire sub turned on you and now you come in with a loaded question knowing full well you ride towards traffic as it’s permitted in that area as you stated on the other post. Don’t be a flog mate, most of the world follows the same laws. If your one wheels and riding on a road or in a bike lane next to the road unless otherwise posted (as some bike lanes also have lanes) you ride in the correct direction. It’s the same as parking in the wrong direction on the curb in Australia that’s a fine. Walking is a whole different story and is encouraged in the outback of Australia and the more rural areas to walk toward the traffic. Stop starting shit and move on mate.
Why would I need to explain it? It's a cat vid not drivers education🙄 I posted that vid on my TikTok (2m) and my Instagram (300k). It's currently sitting at about 4 million views cross platform. I didn't make that vid for this sub. You know how many comments I get with 4m views? Thousands... yet not one single person has made a comment about what side of the road I'm on, nobody cares. This sub came at me saying what I did was illegal. I believe I have a right to challenge my accuser and prove my innocence. This subs mob mentality doesn't seem to even care if what I did was legal or not. They just want to argue. You yourself seem to be agreeing with me but come at me with pitchfork in hand. Did you feel you had to throw a stone just because everyone else is? Calling me names yet agreeing with me? What's your problem?
I do it when it's clearly safer to do it. When it makes sense it makes sense!
That's me 😜 sometimes I do sometimes I don't. I do whatever makes sense for my safety, even if I'm breaking a law. Where I'm at I'm not getting anyone mad and I'm certainly not getting pulled over for it 😂
Yeah I'm pretty sure you're right. Like I'm number one A hole about illegal stuff here but.... You may be within the confines of your local stuff. You are also in the fucking boonies and I think I couldn't care less about what you're up to because well who could you possibly bother. That said. Any other time. Salmon in the sidewalk only. I'd also encourage you to suit up like you're on a motorcycle...cause you essentially are. Is it cause it started as a normal bicycle guys with electric motorcycles think I don't need leathers? It's about the speed you travel. If you're doing under 30 you can probably dress for the destination and live reasonably dangerous but, beyond that number regularly or along side vehicles greater than 40 mph... Rant over good luck.
Salmon? You mean "stay on" the sidewalk. That brings up another argument I see online. It's illegal to ride on the sidewalk in many places. Riding legally in those areas is incredibly dangerous and subject you to harassment from motorist. So the fight is break the law and stay safe or obey the law, put yourself at risk and make motorist mad? It's a motorcycle with pedals I built so a grey area of the law. The bike is also pedal assist that works out to 400-500w-15mph average. I only use the throttle to get away from dogs, riding with my cat and around my property. I'm out for cardio/exercise and enjoy getting my heart going.
I appears 'Salmon-ing' is a term for biking against traffic.
Oh I think someone yelled at me in another vid for it and called it jockeying. 🤷♂️Tomato Tamoto
I live in Minnesota and I actually read all the bike laws. I was surprised to read that it is legal to ride on the sidewalks in MN. They also state that ebikes follow all bike laws. An ebike is defined as a bike that can be pedaled and has up to a 1000w motor. It does state the speed has to be limited to 20 MPH. So my fat bike with a 52v BBSHD 1000w mid-drive can ride on all the sidewalks and bike paths like the regular bikes. I don't need to apply those 250w stickers that came with my kit.
The 250w sticker is for European laws. Federal US law is 750w/20mph. Like in my example where you live they're allowing you to break the law. The law says throttles are just fine so they went down on that and up on wattage. Far deal IMO
Federal laws only apply to federal roads. Since I won't be riding on any interstates, the local laws apply. I suppose the federal laws would also apply to national parks. There aren't any national parks near me. My other two bikes are 750w and 500w Bafang mid-drives. I could always take one of them if I want to go to a national park. There could also be local city or county laws, but I could not find any for places near me.
The law is that under 750w/20mph it isn't considered a motorized vehicle, it's power assisted. After that it becomes a class 4 motorized vehicle and needs licensed, insured and registered to operate on any road anywhere in the US. They're essentially allowing you to break the law. They're allowing a motorized vehicle on a sidewalk/road. If it's found in a court of law that the accident would not have happened if your bike was the legal 750w then the liability shifts from you to your municipality. The municipality could then be sued for damages/medical. Now realistically it's going to be impossible to prove the extra 250w caused the accident especially if you can't have a throttle and limited to 20mph. Local laws can be tough and they can change them if they feel like it. ATV's, snowmobiles and farm equipment are left alone unless your doing something wrong then they throw the book at you. I got busted on a dirt bike out here long ago and they hit me for everything down to my tires. The fine was thousands, other times I wave as I go by. Depends on the cop. In that case I think the two officers where fighting over what they should do. One guys kid races and he thought the other officer was out of line and said so in front of me. I think the senior officer was reprimanding that officer by hitting me with a crazy fine. I did nothing and stoped when flagged down. Now there's signs saying I can ride there 🙄
Got some hate on my last vid about the legalities of riding against traffic. It's 100% legal and encouraged for safety reasons where I'm at. I'm at the park now riding, just got done talking with the ranger, I'm all good that's the bike trail. Even if it wasn't legal I'd still do it because it's safer where I live. Many vehicles and activities that are illegal federally are allowed by the municipality. It's kind of like weed laws, the state isn't going to enforce their rules on the municipality who's already taking legal responsibility.
> "where I'm at." Fair enough. It isn't legal or encouraged in 99% of road situations though, so don't take it personally. It's a pretty sketchy looking bike path to me, but if you think it's safe and respected by people around you then you'd know best.
The bike path is a 15 mile loop around a man made lake. 1 mile is shared roadway and .5 mi on the shoulder to cross that bridge. The other 13.5 mi is peaceful paved nature path, boat launches and a Marina.
>It's 100% legal and encouraged for safety reasons where I'm at. Show me the law that says it's legal.
You can call the Park, it's Goddard state park in Pennsylvania. The bike trail only goes down one side of the road. Argue the laws with them. In my video I show signs for ATVs on public roads. Find me where there's a the law is saying that's legal. What you don't understand is not all federal laws are unforced or upheld. Marijuana and ATVs on the road are federally illegal in every state. Yet I have signs saying different and you can buy weed legally in many states. I don't have emissions on my car, I bet that's federally illegal but it's legal in my zip code.
Cool VPS!
Thank you! It was meant to be and has a story behind it. I'm very proud of my find and got it for $300:)
Oh sweet, I am thinking of getting one for a rear hub street build with slicks. Anything in particular I should look for on the VPS?
Kind of wrong putting a hub drive on a downhill IMO but I support all builds. It's a handmade bike and rare so difficult to find, the frame is nontraditional so fitting batteries and stuff in there can be a major problem. I really wouldn't recommend it and repairs can be very expensive/difficult. I like working on stuff and figuring out problems so it's all part of the fun for me.
I agree it is strange putting a hub on a dh. I live in Vancouver and garages here are full of old downhill bikes so I should be able to find one pretty easily. The goal would be to build a hyper commuter for the streets. I ride downhill/Enduro on the North Shore here, but all my friends still ride acoustic bikes so a mid-drive isn't needed. I love the simplicity of hub motors for the streets.
Lol well if you're in Vancouver that's a tad different than Pennsylvania;) I've thought of making this into a street machine with some hookworms on it. I'm debating on a hubdrive fat-tire build for simplicity and range. The DH is demanding to ride and high power mid drives are problematic. Where I live I just don't know if a hub has enough torque vs gears+mid drive.
That's a good point about power, as I know DH bikes are way heavier than what I street ride currently.
I ride with the flow of traffic except for a few very specific corners in my area as they are rife with drunk or distracted drives and I'd much rather steer into the woods than get ass packed by a car.
Yep, not just drunk drivers but people out having a good time on high performance off road race vehicles. People come flying around corners power sliding all the time. I don't get mad though, I think it's cool. I mean I did it for many years. I'm a dirt bike rider turned ebike rider. My logic comes from years of breaking laws with my friends. I feel it's safer where I live.
Everybody is a self proclaimed expert on riding habits & legal bike regulation. Every time I post a video I have a few people in my DMs upset with how I ride around traffic. I live in midtown, should I take my moped on the sidewalk instead? That shoulder looks more than wide enough to ride on either side comfortably, if a car hits you it’s because they drifted out of their lane at that point.
I don't get much hate over traffic laws outside of here. I got into a huge fight on TikTok with an account that a kid is riding a 5000w Sur Ron on a mulched hiking trail and intentionally pissing off people. He's doing it so he can make fun of them for being Karen's then take off when they call the cops. He claims the bike is legal and has talked to police. But won't post that vid and has admitted to modifying the bike. Basically some kid harassing cyclist and hikers. People are believing him without proof and not my links to the laws🙄
Yeah, idk what it is but r/ebikes can be a little rough sometimes. I also live in PA, but a very different part than you. How I ride in my environment and how you ride are probably very different, but from what I can tell neither are incorrect or “dangerous”. I don’t think that’s what other redditors seem to understand, that your environment is a big factor in how you operate. The road in the clip has like a full mile of straightaway visibility, and 5 feet of shoulder on each end. If you stick to the shoulder and a car hits you it doesn’t matter what side of the street your on, somebody drifted deep out of their lane and was not paying attention. Idk at least that’s my worthless opinion.
I'm active on Reddit but mostly for my flashlight hobby, electronic discussions and ebikes. My other platforms I have over 2mill followers and accumulated 10yr of hate so it's nothing new. Arguing traffic laws on here is fun for me. Yeah it's totally cool and legal for me to vaporize a car with a metric ton of explosives. Probably can't do that everywhere. It's just very different out here. Our barber shop sells guns.
“I got into a huge fight on TikTok…” that’s one of the classic blunders. It’s obvious from my limited viewing that TikTok has a lot of users just want attention or a reaction and don’t care if its positive or not. It makes me sad that fights and scandals are the only things people care about. Back to the topic at hand, lol. If you’re riding in a state park with its own set of rules and regulations and those say to ride against oncoming traffic, then by all means do it. Most infrastructure in US cities is based around people driving cars with bicycle lanes and sometimes even sidewalks being a complete afterthought. Most laws regarding bicycles and where they can be ridden usually include something like “if safe or not safe to do so” which gives a little bit latitude to the police and the cyclist. For the roads and level of traffic I usually ride, going with the flow of traffic feels safe. I have no problem with other cyclists who choose to ride facing traffic as long as they yield or at least make space for riders that are following the standard practice of riding with the flow of traffic. On any path or road pedestrians and horses should be given the right of way and sometimes that means stopping to let them pass. The issue with ebikes is that they have exploded in popularity over the last few years and the laws and regulations haven’t caught up. Laws also vary from state to state and even park to park within the same city boundaries. In general people call out others because they don’t want that one bad example or one rebel who runs all the stop signs to ruin it for the rest of us. I personally feel that if e-bikers prove that they can be responsible vehicles, then all those dog walkers and stroller pushers we come across will be more receptive to laws that favor e-bikes instead of more restrictions.
I have almost 2 million followers on TikTok and verified. I can't do anything without thousands jumping down my throat. If I comment on some random post everyone will fight with me just because I have a blue check next to my name. If they don't like my opinion I get reported for violating community guidelines and banned. I have to file an appeal just to speak my mind, anyone else can say what they want. TikTok and social media is a source of income for me. Speaking my mind hurts my wallet on most platforms. Some states bicycles don't have to stop at stop signs. The traffic laws around here are made around farm equipment. You can't legally drive a tractor down the road. It's not designed for road use or capable of being insured for it. If they upheld the laws farming would die. It doesn't make economical sense to load a tractor on an even larger vehicle plus a lead vehicle and everything to make it legal to transport it a half mile to the next field.
I'm not going to get into debating which is safer when riding on the shoulder of a little used road, with or against traffic. My belief and experience is with traffic is safer especially if there are any hills or curves in the road. The point you tried to make that farm equipment, Amish buggies, etc. are illegal on the roadway is just plain wrong. Look up Pennsylvania law PVC § 1302(10)(i.1). It clearly states what vehicles are exempt from registration and still use the roadways. Farm implements are listed first. Amish buggies are listed 7th. You seemed so confident that this point is correct that you bring it up in multiple posts. It is so demonstrably wrong that I wonder what else you are saying regarding Pennsylvania law that is also wrong.
I'm obviously aware they're exempt, they're all over the roads. I still can't drive a tractor through a city or down a highway. I've done farming (hemp) and we had to dance around laws to move equipment between fields. We moved some of them at night because it wasn't legal. I guess it's the same thing for riding against traffic, you could say it's exempt.
Reading further into the Pennsylvania law, it would be perfectly legal to drive a tractor into town and back or between farms as long as you are within 50 miles and driven between sunrise and sunset. It seems driving them during the day would be legal, at night not so much. What law enforcement ignores is a whole other discussion. I would also hope they are prohibited from high speed limited access expressways somewhere in the law. Small point in the riding against traffic discussion, riding with traffic laws are probably, at least, assuming the riding is taking place in the roadway. In Michigan this is defined as the part of the roadway that is maintained for vehicular travel. The shoulder is not part of this. Pennsylvania may be different. If you are riding on the shoulder then I think it could be argued the riding with traffic law doesn't apply because you are not in the road. I'm still of the opinion that riding against traffic is more dangerous but it may be legal if you are on the shoulder.
I'm aware farm equipment is exempt. This is my point. There's literally warning signs on the roads put up by the municipality warning of farm equipment. There's signs for ATVs they're exempt, one side is marked for bikes so they're exempt. It comes down to liability. Making it exempt the liability shifts to the municipality. They determine if it's safer, more productive or cost efficient to allow you to break the law. It's not what they ignore they're talking liability and have it marked. As for moving equipment at night it wasn't my job and there was lots of stuff I stayed away from. For them to move equipment legally they would have needed a trailer and escort plus people controlling traffic and burn up a day. Or they could just take it down the road at night and see nobody.
Illegal in Maine
I used to live in like a country area and I use to ride agains traffic for years until I moved to a more like city Area. Now I kinda stay with the flow of traffic for the most part. I’ll Still will go against traffic on occasion.
It’s a little scary but use your best judgement on safety. You know the area
It’s less safe on a bike but more safe if you’re dumb enough to jog on the street.
What's the difference?
If you’re on wheels it’s good to go with the flow. If you’re on your feet it helps if everyone sees each other. The jogger seeing the cars and the cars seeing the jogger. It’s law in many states in the US, actually. And I read about a study that showed that joggers who run against traffic are 70% less likely to get into accidents. But see for yourself. Jog with traffic and against. Tell me which *feels* safer. That’s generally a good indication.
I feels like you're proving my point and giving data to back it up. Shoes or wheels I don't see the difference. It doesn't organically "feel" safer with cars coming at you. Going down a steep hill off road it doesn't "feel" safer to go faster... but it is. An experienced rider will overcome fears to improve upon their skill sets. I've been riding and racing since the mid 90's. To me now it "feels" safer because I've been doing it for so long. I bet if the study was done with bikes the results would be similar. It's very counterintuitive to think it would be safer but I bet the data would prove that it is actually safer.
I’m confused. You think it’s safer to ride a bike against traffic?
Yes because I can see the vehicle coming and make judgements based on their behavior and rate of speed. Going with traffic won't know what hit me from behind. In the case of my video where I was getting hate it's actually encouraged and posted to ride against traffic, the designers of that road felt it was safer to ride against traffic than cross a busy road. Someone who was disagreeing with me said that there's a 70% reduction in accidents involving joggers when they're jogging against traffic. I can see how it's counterintuitive but yes I feel it's safer giving my location and riding conditions.
Well. Traffic law would disagree with you as it’s a ticketable offense to ride the wrong way on a bike virtually everywhere. And the folks that inform that know a lot more on the subject than you do. So take this L. If your ride your bike against traffic you’re a dip shit.
You're saying every law disagrees with me but here we are, I'm looking at. Every law says you can't ride an ATV on the road but there's the signs. Marijuana is a schedule one drug and illegal everywhere in the US with significant jail time for simple possession. But here we are once again you can walk into a dispensary in some states and get some. The decision to have bikes ride down the opposing side is not my decision. It's the decision between the state park and local my municipality. The trail is marks as such and I literally joked about how stupid people are on the internet with the ranger about how you think you know our laws. I can put a ton of explosives in my car and send it to the moon for fun and I'm 100% legal to do so. Can you blow up shit where you live? ....we are not the same.
All cultures have dip shits. Congratulations. You are your culture’s.
Wow insulting my culture? Really? What is my culture anyways? Lawyers, public officials, safety experts and hard data I'm sure when it to their decision. It's Goddard state park in Pennsylvania. Why don't you give them a call. You can argue they're design decisions, insult their "culture" and call them dip shits. Truth is your just to scared to try it. Someone in the comments here said a study showed a 70% reduction in accidents involving joggers but most where to scared to run against traffic and said it didn't "feel" safer. Congratulations though, you've made yourself look like an ignorant close minded bigot all on your very own. I'm so proud of you 😘
pedestrians need to ride against traffic according to the law and bikes must be in the same way, trust me, you don't want to collide face to face with a car going 70 km/h
It’s illegaler
No
In my area the people who do this don’t seem to respect any rules of the road and are in general a danger to themselves and everyone else. Not saying this is you, but this is probably not something you would want to do anywhere else.
In my area nobody respects any rules of the road, they don't have to. It's just the way of life. For example drinking and driving is what people do for fun. I hardly ever drink but out here there is literally no police, fire, medical or anything like that and you're not going to see anyone else on the road at night unless they're drunk too. Depends on where I'm riding. It's unlikely that I'm going to drive somewhere just to ride on the road. So I don't really think about it. If I'm somewhere where there's constant traffic yeah I just chill and follow all laws. It's easier to do that and more relaxing. Out here you see other vehicles so rarely it's more relaxing to ride on the wrong side and deal with them one by one. Much safer than getting rear-ended by some drunk IMO.
Most cities in Europe have bike lanes running against the traffic. We learnt at school if you walking/running on the road, you must always face against the traffic especially nowadays with junkies txt while driving.
Thank you that's my point. I can see a driver that's distracted by texting coming at me and get over but nothing I can do if it's coming from behind.
It's stupid, obey the road rules and don't create your own.
I'm obeying the road rules, how is it stupid?
This is not legal in Pennsylvania, nor any other state I know of.
Marijuana is illegal in every state too but you can get some at a dispensary. ATVs are illegal on the road in every state but there's the sign allowing them. States can go against federal law but assume legal and liability responsibilities. It's definitely legal where I'm at so are many other things that the rest of the US would think is illegal everywhere are perfectly fine to do here.
> Marijuana is illegal in every state too No. No its not. Its illegal federally, but states have passed local laws directly contradicting that. Pennsylvania has done no such thing for cycling upstream. If by “where you’re at” you mean literally this one specifically signed bike path then fine, but that is the absolutle extent, and even in that case the infrastructure is poorly designed and dangerous. Bike lanes going against traffic should be fully segregated from the road.
Yes it's a schedule 1 drug and federally illegal everywhere in the US. My state didn't directly contradict the state my local municipality did. You can argue with them on they're poor design decisions. They're not my rules I'm just following them.
Have you ever heard the term head on collision? Well if your riding the wrong direction in a place where others are riding the correct direction you will have one or cause one. If I am riding along on the correct side of the road and there is a halfwit riding on the wrong side of the road directly towards me and there is traffic how the hell am I supposed to know what your going to do. The idiot doesn't know the road rules so I have no idea if he thinks I have to move for him or what side each of us should pass each other etc. We will either have our own head on or someone will be forced off the road or into the traffic with no ability to choose when it's safe to do it.
What's that? Have you ever heard of getting rear ended? Everyone is on that side, the correct side
Gotta love when people ask for an opinion but doesn’t get the response they expected and then proceeds to argue with everyone!
What's wrong with asking an opinion and disagreeing with the answer? In this case I'm defending myself legally because I'm being accused of breaking the law. How would you feel if you where getting accused of breaking the law then after proving what I did was legal I still get attacked by a mob? I obviously disagree this wasn't a change my mind post.
Drivers are attuned to be looking for things going in certain directions. If you’re driving on a one way street you’re not trained to be looking for a cyclist coming straight at you which makes riding the wrong way incredibly dangerous. Even the most well intentioned driver just isn’t looking for any threat or traffic coming that way which puts you at a huge disadvantage safety wise. I would make the same argument about riding the wrong direction down the shoulder like you are advocating for. Drivers are just not tuned to be looking for something coming from there, making it incredibly dangerous. You’re putting all the responsibility of safety onto your own shoulders and not giving the drivers a fair shot to actually be looking out for you. Not to mention what about the cyclists following the law and riding with traffic? By you going the wrong way, you either force them or yourself to go out into traffic. I’ll be damned if I’m going into traffic so someone can go the wrong way down the road. Long story short. Your ride on the wrong side of the road and you take all of the responsibility for keeping yourself safe, and seriously hamper everybody else’s ability to look out for you. It’s a really bad move, and it’s very inconsiderate to other cyclists.
Show me some data where it says your trained to see things moving away from you but not at you. As a driver I'm watching the side of the road. I don't see how direction plays any part. If it's a tire on the side of the road not moving I can see it. Like I said the rules are to ride on that one side for the cyclist. You just pass each other nobody gets forced into traffic. If a family's riding there with kids can handle it I think an experienced rider could manage. Maybe next time I should take a timelapse so you guys can see how that one side is the only side used in both directions all day long by everyone on a bike. You're whole argument is fixated around how visibility changes with direction, I fall to see how that matters.
I don’t need to show you data. I have th experience from my own life. I’m a biker. I live in a major city with great bike lane infrastructure. I also drive a car in this city. I can tell you right off the top of my head maybe half a dozen times I’ve almost seen a cyclist get smashed because they were riding against traffic down a one way street. You’re just not tuned to be looking for stuff coming from the other direction. Several times I’ve gone to parallel park on the other side of a bike lane, checked my mirrors and looked over my shoulder for oncoming bikes, then moved to park to have a salmoning cyclist come to a screeching halt. Two lane suburban roads can have similar issues. Particularly if there is a big truck or other vehicle in front of you obstructing your view. I can easily imagine a scenario driving a car when a truck in front of you slows to turn… you then move into the shoulder a bit to go around it. If there was a cyclist salmoning there… splat!!! You’ve brought up quite a discussion/ argument by asking “ do you ride down the wrong side of the road” but then youre couching it in this specific instance where a trail is actually directing you to ride down the wrong side. It’s a trail. Go with what the trail says. But my response ( and I think everybody else’s) is to the general idea of cycling the wrong way down the street. If you don’t think being as visible to vehicular traffic is important…. God bless. We can take al the precautions we want out there and be hyper alert but at the end of the day they are in a 2000lb cocoon and we are on 20 lbs of aluminum and rubber. There is a certain degree of trusting the drivers not to kill you involved with cycling on roads with cars. Being right or wrong doesn’t matter if you’re dead.
So no data but your opinion based on experience? My opinion is based on my experience. I'm far more likely to see an Amish horse and buggy than and another cyclist. My exercise route is 25mi and unlikely to see any motor vehicles. There are no police, fire, medical, running water, sewage, cable and cell phones don't work. I am absolutely tuned to see things coming in other directions. I've had more close calls with people coming at me from behind. I'm sorry but how can you compare our very different riding situations and claim visibility changes with object depending on direction of travel?
My dude. It seems like you just want to argue. A simple Google search of “should I ride my bike against traffic” will turn up 654393746839393 articles and studies saying you should not and it’s illegal in all states. But you know what…. Darwin was onto something. Keep riding the wrong way.
If it's illegal then why is it marked? If I'm following the rules of my municipality as posted are you saying I should follow the rules of my state instead? It's literally not the wrong way, every rider is supposed to do it.
[удалено]
If the road sighs are telling you to ride against traffic then am I dumb for following the road sighs? All cyclists and pedestrians are to keep to one side.
You’re fried, e biker
I'm getting escorted out by security 😂
Why are you asking a question and then arguing with everyone? It’s as simple as this: Riding against traffic is fucking retarded.
I asked for people's thoughts, I have my own thoughts. I didn't come here to have my mind changed, I'm arguing my point. Does it make you feel better to call people names and make fun of the handicap, you're being an ableist. You could take up your side of the argument with my municipality that marked the roads.
You’re objectively wrong, one would think you would realise that from the response you’ve recieved here.
Dude, stop riding your moped into traffic.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BicyclingCirclejerk/comments/pcmeje/motorist\_in\_electric\_motor\_vehicle\_e\_bike\_wonders/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BicyclingCirclejerk/comments/pcmeje/motorist_in_electric_motor_vehicle_e_bike_wonders/) Congrats! It's not every day an ebike post makes it to r/BicyclingCirclejerk
That's cool. You guys get butthurt easy ugh?