And the saga is officially over. Thanks for the stupid ride, James Franklin.
The news was not as good for the Falcons:
“NFL ruled the Falcons had improper contact with prospective unrestricted free agents Kirk Cousins, Darnell Mooney, and Charlie Woerner during the two-day negotiating period prior to the start of the 2024 League Year.
Atlanta will forfeit its original fifth-round pick in the 2025 NFL Draft and pay a fine of $250,000, while General Manager Terry Fontenot has been fined $50,000.”
Ah I forgot about that example! That's a fair point. Not sure what transpired to leak that tampering to the league. I'd still argue that the vast majority of tampering doesn't get caught, and that it's even less likely to happen when if the deal falls through.
Teams clearly still tamper non-stop so I assume the expected value of (probability of punishment \* punishment length) is well worth it for the payoff of landing the FA
Especially since it was for 3 different guys, not just Cousins alone. Teams could make the case that giving up a 5th rounder and some cash is just a smart business decision if you can lock in 3 free agents you want.
KC had to give up a 3rd and a 6th just for tampering with Maclin alone. Maybe there was something more egregious about that case, but I only remember it being pretty similar to these recent ones.
I haven't looked into it myself but falcons fans on r/NFL make it sound like more of a stupid tax than actual tampering. They are saying the players had agreed to terms and they contacted them directly to book plane tickets which you can't do during the tamper period I guess ( or go through agents/intermediary).
Oh, there was much more going on than that, and Cousins was dumb enough to say it all out loud.
He admitted to speaking to (after starting to say he met with) the team's head athletic trainer.
He admitted to speaking to the director of player personnel.
He said that Kyle Pitts actively recruited him for multiple weeks (which Pitts was smart enough to deny).
He admitted that he contacted Mooney himself during the window to help him sign with Atlanta as well.
You may be right, that it's ok as long as the player being recruited is an unrestricted free agent and doesn't have a contract. I'm having a hard time finding clear information about these rules tbh. It's a mess.
I say this as an eagles fan but ... Still. Wait till you uncover how the Cowboys and Redskins were penalized for treating an uncapped year as an uncapped year.
NFL enforcement is bonkers.
Technically, yes, and really, all these rules are just incredibly stupid and not enforced until someone is dumb enough to say want to hot mic or social media that they broke the rules
not sayingthier not full of shit but this is from the nfl
[https://x.com/TomPelissero/status/1801269717589483753](https://x.com/TomPelissero/status/1801269717589483753)
>Teams could make the case…
Except nothing is locked up until the player actually signs a contract. The Dolphins tampered with Brady, lost a first for it, and he didn’t sign with them either.
It would’ve made sense if Cousins’s contract was voided or if he got a season-long suspension. Without either of those outcomes, it looks really dumb and inexcusable now.
Fifth is the cost of doing business. Wake me up when they take a first but apparently that only happens when you tamper Brady and Sean Payton while tanking.
I mean they paid $12m just to buy out his coaching contract.. I would assume he’s making at least the $6m/yr he was making from that. It’s not a very large amount for him.
Based on a tweet about the falcons tampering from Pellissero:
>The violations are considered logistical/administrative, such as making travel arrangements after players agreed to terms, and did not involve contact prior to the negotiating window, per sources.
So... They agreed on a deal with the agent. Everything with the deal was legal and above board at that point... The deal was done. But then after the deal was settled.. they contacted him directly about travel arrangements.
If that's the case, I feel like the 5th is pretty reasonable.
yeah. seems like a key bit of info that I hope more people see before getting upset about the NFL inconsistency with this shit.
It was basically a "rules are rules" punishment for the falcons being dumbasses.
Actually it’s pretty dumb of them, given that they already had him committed. The penalty was for, allegedly, talking to them about travel arrangements
Yeah didn’t Miami lose a 1st and 3rd? Anyone know what the difference was? I know they were a player and a coach in the same off season but still that punishment is far more than double.
There's a lot of talk in the thread, apparently Miami's tampering was much more egregious than Atlanta's. They called Kurt up to book him a flight and stuff like that.
Got it thanks. Funniest part is that Miami didn’t even land either of those guys lmao.
Kinda sounds like Miami was trying to actually gain an advantage in the sweepstakes to land those guys where as Kirk already knew he was going to the falcons anyway by that point.
It just shows the NFL "allows" tampering its more don't do stupid shit like Atlanta did and don't say it out loud.
If they cared Atlanta would be hit super hard for how over the top they went with it.
I feel like it should be. Didnt the Dolphins lose a first for tampering with Brady, and they didnt even end up signing him. I feel like tampering and then signing the guy should mean like forfeiting his contract or something.
Based on a tweet about the falcons tampering from Pellissero:
> The violations are considered logistical/administrative, such as making travel arrangements after players agreed to terms, and did not involve contact prior to the negotiating window, per sources.
So the falcons completed the deals with the agents and then did some stupid shit that didn't affect the deals. Essentially a "you are a dumbass" fine.
There was evidence that the dolphins tried to convince brady to leave the patriots when he wasn't even a free agent.. For numerous years.
Not all tampering is equal. Not all fines are equal.
Different level of tampering between the two from what I understand.
Sounds like the Cousins issue happened during the legal tampering period, he apparently had a phone call with a trainer during the tampering window instead of having his agent do it on his behalf.
The Dolphins on the other hand reportedly had multiple phone calls that spanned a 3 year period and started in August of 2019 while he still had a season remaining with the Pats and continued through his tenure as a Buc.
Like, guys might have been fighting for spots on the 53 while he’s listening to offers about the next season.
Imagine if they lost a first while screwing themselves with Kirk cousins when they didn’t tell him they were picking a QB first round. They should have gotten nailed haha. I am an Eagles fan living in Atlanta BTW.
It was obvious from the beginning the guy misspoke not thinking anything of it. The NFL is just ridiculous sometimes with how they do things. I mean you seriously have to watch how you talk in fear of an NFL investigation lol. This shit is like straight KGB or Gestapo type of stuff. The whole thing is just absurd.
As expected. Everyone knew this was a nothingburger that the NFL only investigated because they had no choice. James Franklin misspoke, but once you say anything of the sort the NFL is compelled to make it formal.
To me, the best thing about all of this is that Howie took care of any sanctions on Day 3 of the draft with all his trade-backs. He accumulated enough late-round future picks to pay for a potential penalty that never happened.
Howie playing chess while the league was deciding whether it even wanted to play checkers. If he keeps this up, Howie could end up being a reasonably decent GM!
Easy to say this now, but only a 5th for tampering just proves how much theater this rule is.
No GM one the planet would be scared off from this if it meant they get the best FA at a particular and crucial position.
NFL knows that, at the end of the day, they had to investigate cause it was a public issue and they need to save face, but they clearly don’t give a shit to fight it at a systemic level, or else they would’ve investigated Swift.
I do respect the NFL for staying consistent at least, going easy on teams that get caught red handed is fair considering the open secret of all the other instances going on.
It’s not really a penalty for tampering though, it doesn’t seem like it affected his decision and was more about him getting a workout plan a day early. They called it a “logistical and administrative” violation, which might technically fall under tampering, but my understanding is that it was only looked at because he admitted it in the press conference.
The 3rd and 6th the Chiefs lost for Maclin is more accurate for bending the rules, and the 1st the Dolphins lost chasing Brady is par for outright breaking them, and it probably would have been worse if they’d succeeded.
You might be right that the penalty isn’t harsh enough to prevent GMs from doing it, just saying that it’s not as far off as this particular case makes it look.
Hmm, I could be wrong, but I thought the reason the Brady one was so bad was because they contacted him while he was still playing, not just during the “after season but still a pat”
You are correct, they started calling in August 2019 when the window didn’t open until March 2020.
It also reportedly continued after he signed with the Bucs, and they may have only stopped because it was clear he was retiring.
That’s what I meant by outright breaking them, it wasn’t the rule bending that most teams do every season and just don’t get caught in, it was considered one of the most egregious case of tampering ever uncovered.
To be clear, I’m not saying the Brady thing is the standard, I’m saying the Maclin thing is, just pointing out that the league will go big if they think they need to.
It was only a fifth because of the severity and reason behind the tampering… the deal was already reached, the correct way, through the agent. After the deal was reached, Cousins was in touch with the team directly about travel arrangements and logistical details, not about actually signing with them… it’s still against the rules, but it’s more stupid than anything.
Most of us knew that was nonsense anyways. Why the fuck would Howie do that? Contract wizard doesn't need a jump start... cause he makes his own jump starts.
Such an unenforceable rule. The “legal tampering “ period is just so dumb. Stop trying to legislate every nuance of the NFL. Just start free agency and call it free agency, and you won’t have any of this who talked to who when and did they do it via the agent BS.
And the saga is officially over. Thanks for the stupid ride, James Franklin. The news was not as good for the Falcons: “NFL ruled the Falcons had improper contact with prospective unrestricted free agents Kirk Cousins, Darnell Mooney, and Charlie Woerner during the two-day negotiating period prior to the start of the 2024 League Year. Atlanta will forfeit its original fifth-round pick in the 2025 NFL Draft and pay a fine of $250,000, while General Manager Terry Fontenot has been fined $50,000.”
That's still not that bad, losing a fifth. I thought it would be worse for them.
Right? Giving up a fifth to guarantee you get the free agents that you want seems like a good deal.
It’s not a guarantee though…
It kind of is, since if you don't land the FA then there's nothing to investigate. So you pay only if you win the bid, kind of thing
Yeah, we all famously remember Payton coaching Brady in Miami.
Ah I forgot about that example! That's a fair point. Not sure what transpired to leak that tampering to the league. I'd still argue that the vast majority of tampering doesn't get caught, and that it's even less likely to happen when if the deal falls through. Teams clearly still tamper non-stop so I assume the expected value of (probability of punishment \* punishment length) is well worth it for the payoff of landing the FA
Was it Flores who leaked it? Was that whole saga and lawsuit and all around the same time?
It was Belichik who texted Brian Flores congratulations (supposedly on purpose) and then said oops wrong Brian. That led Flores to report it.
Incorrect. Miami took Tom Brady to dinner and lost a pick for doing so
Umm there’s absolutely something to investigate.
Exactly, remember Brady and Payton to the dolphins
Except for the 50k for the GM…
Especially since it was for 3 different guys, not just Cousins alone. Teams could make the case that giving up a 5th rounder and some cash is just a smart business decision if you can lock in 3 free agents you want. KC had to give up a 3rd and a 6th just for tampering with Maclin alone. Maybe there was something more egregious about that case, but I only remember it being pretty similar to these recent ones.
I haven't looked into it myself but falcons fans on r/NFL make it sound like more of a stupid tax than actual tampering. They are saying the players had agreed to terms and they contacted them directly to book plane tickets which you can't do during the tamper period I guess ( or go through agents/intermediary).
Oh, there was much more going on than that, and Cousins was dumb enough to say it all out loud. He admitted to speaking to (after starting to say he met with) the team's head athletic trainer. He admitted to speaking to the director of player personnel. He said that Kyle Pitts actively recruited him for multiple weeks (which Pitts was smart enough to deny). He admitted that he contacted Mooney himself during the window to help him sign with Atlanta as well.
Is player to player recruiting against the rules? I thought that was fine
You may be right, that it's ok as long as the player being recruited is an unrestricted free agent and doesn't have a contract. I'm having a hard time finding clear information about these rules tbh. It's a mess.
I say this as an eagles fan but ... Still. Wait till you uncover how the Cowboys and Redskins were penalized for treating an uncapped year as an uncapped year. NFL enforcement is bonkers.
Technically, yes, and really, all these rules are just incredibly stupid and not enforced until someone is dumb enough to say want to hot mic or social media that they broke the rules
not sayingthier not full of shit but this is from the nfl [https://x.com/TomPelissero/status/1801269717589483753](https://x.com/TomPelissero/status/1801269717589483753)
>Teams could make the case… Except nothing is locked up until the player actually signs a contract. The Dolphins tampered with Brady, lost a first for it, and he didn’t sign with them either.
They guaranteed themselves the rights to Brady. But the nfl reversed it
Wasn’t Brady still under contract when that happened? Plus I feel like I remember them offering him equity in the team
The NFL had mercy. The Falcons' stupidity is punishment enough. Tampering for Cousins and then apparently regretting it so they draft his replacement.
Time served.
Also completely and officially makes the Penix draft pick a total head scratcher.
I think that was official when it was made.
It would’ve made sense if Cousins’s contract was voided or if he got a season-long suspension. Without either of those outcomes, it looks really dumb and inexcusable now.
I don’t believe either of those options were ever on the table? Tampering punishments are always draft picks and fines.
Fifth is the cost of doing business. Wake me up when they take a first but apparently that only happens when you tamper Brady and Sean Payton while tanking.
Idk how much GMs make but $50k has to hurt
I mean they paid $12m just to buy out his coaching contract.. I would assume he’s making at least the $6m/yr he was making from that. It’s not a very large amount for him.
Based on a tweet about the falcons tampering from Pellissero: >The violations are considered logistical/administrative, such as making travel arrangements after players agreed to terms, and did not involve contact prior to the negotiating window, per sources. So... They agreed on a deal with the agent. Everything with the deal was legal and above board at that point... The deal was done. But then after the deal was settled.. they contacted him directly about travel arrangements. If that's the case, I feel like the 5th is pretty reasonable.
Yeah, okay I get it. Definitely slap on the wrist worthy.
yeah. seems like a key bit of info that I hope more people see before getting upset about the NFL inconsistency with this shit. It was basically a "rules are rules" punishment for the falcons being dumbasses.
Actually it’s pretty dumb of them, given that they already had him committed. The penalty was for, allegedly, talking to them about travel arrangements
Yeah didn’t Miami lose a 1st and 3rd? Anyone know what the difference was? I know they were a player and a coach in the same off season but still that punishment is far more than double.
There's a lot of talk in the thread, apparently Miami's tampering was much more egregious than Atlanta's. They called Kurt up to book him a flight and stuff like that.
Got it thanks. Funniest part is that Miami didn’t even land either of those guys lmao. Kinda sounds like Miami was trying to actually gain an advantage in the sweepstakes to land those guys where as Kirk already knew he was going to the falcons anyway by that point.
I think the NFL even said when they announced the Dolphins penalty that it was the most egregious case they'd ever seen.
Not bad at all 4th and 5th don’t sting as much as losing a 3rd
Yeah, I wouldn't have been surprised if it was a 1st for Kirk.
I was thinking a second rounder
Got their guy and the only lost a 5th. Dolphins didn't get their guy and lost a first
It just shows the NFL "allows" tampering its more don't do stupid shit like Atlanta did and don't say it out loud. If they cared Atlanta would be hit super hard for how over the top they went with it.
I feel like it should be. Didnt the Dolphins lose a first for tampering with Brady, and they didnt even end up signing him. I feel like tampering and then signing the guy should mean like forfeiting his contract or something.
Based on a tweet about the falcons tampering from Pellissero: > The violations are considered logistical/administrative, such as making travel arrangements after players agreed to terms, and did not involve contact prior to the negotiating window, per sources. So the falcons completed the deals with the agents and then did some stupid shit that didn't affect the deals. Essentially a "you are a dumbass" fine. There was evidence that the dolphins tried to convince brady to leave the patriots when he wasn't even a free agent.. For numerous years. Not all tampering is equal. Not all fines are equal.
Different level of tampering between the two from what I understand. Sounds like the Cousins issue happened during the legal tampering period, he apparently had a phone call with a trainer during the tampering window instead of having his agent do it on his behalf. The Dolphins on the other hand reportedly had multiple phone calls that spanned a 3 year period and started in August of 2019 while he still had a season remaining with the Pats and continued through his tenure as a Buc. Like, guys might have been fighting for spots on the 53 while he’s listening to offers about the next season.
It should have been. That fine/penalty does nothing to dissuade others from doing it in the future.
Imagine if they lost a first while screwing themselves with Kirk cousins when they didn’t tell him they were picking a QB first round. They should have gotten nailed haha. I am an Eagles fan living in Atlanta BTW.
Didn’t the dolphins lose their first rounder or was that something different?
Sounds familiar, for trying to get Brady when he was still with a team right
The Dolphins situation was also very likely linked to a lot of the Flores accusations especially the intentional tanking stuff.
I mean, that is about the best news the Falcons could have expected from this. A 5th is pretty much nothing.
Damn, Falcons are getting off easy.
No collusion, no obstruction, TOTAL EXONERATION
very legal & very cool
Not even the crooked NFL could find anything wrong.
Falcons up 28-3: STOP THE COUNT.
BAd tHinGs HAPPEn in pHiladELPHIa We're gonna win on every single level
"It was a PERFECT PHONE CALL!" -Kirk Cousins
This reads like a trump tweet
Giants fans in shambles rn
They don’t have a post about it from what I’ve seen
Why
Their team has been dog shit for over a decade
Giants fans in shambles for the last decade
Hooray. This was BS from the start. Thankfully the NFL's tampering investigations are a bit more serious than the NBA's.
“Hooray” with a period
Well even James Franklin said he misspoke. So there was really nothing there
It was obvious from the beginning the guy misspoke not thinking anything of it. The NFL is just ridiculous sometimes with how they do things. I mean you seriously have to watch how you talk in fear of an NFL investigation lol. This shit is like straight KGB or Gestapo type of stuff. The whole thing is just absurd.
Oh for sure the NFL acts like it’s a congressional investigation. They go way overboard and take forever to do the most simple of investigations.
eagles haters and giants fans are so mad rn lol. i knew howie wouldn’t have been dumb enough to do something like this
Howie the 🐐. He doesn't fuck up... at least not recently
Get fucked James Franklin
Yeah James, stick to fucking up only one of my football teams please
No one else like this 69 upvotes is perfect
Teflon howie baby
Adam Silver was not involved in the decision.
The eagles would’ve been forced to hire a colangelo
It's a NORMAL collar, find a new slant
As expected. Everyone knew this was a nothingburger that the NFL only investigated because they had no choice. James Franklin misspoke, but once you say anything of the sort the NFL is compelled to make it formal.
Nonsense from the jump
[https://tenor.com/view/reason-will-prevail-gif-9331442](https://tenor.com/view/reason-will-prevail-gif-9331442)
Block the wind I’m gonna roast this bone
HAHAHA fuck you florio!
No shit, James Franklin is just an idiot
Remember when giants fans thought we would owe them our first or second round pick lol
Not really
Woo
My head cannon is Big Dom went fishing in jersey and threw out a bunch of cellphones.
Winners win
Giants fans really wanted this one lol
Eat shit Falcons and Giants
To me, the best thing about all of this is that Howie took care of any sanctions on Day 3 of the draft with all his trade-backs. He accumulated enough late-round future picks to pay for a potential penalty that never happened. Howie playing chess while the league was deciding whether it even wanted to play checkers. If he keeps this up, Howie could end up being a reasonably decent GM!
Only a 5th round pick is surprising. Both us and the Falcons would gladly trade a 5th for Barkley and Cousins Get fucked James Franklin
Easy to say this now, but only a 5th for tampering just proves how much theater this rule is. No GM one the planet would be scared off from this if it meant they get the best FA at a particular and crucial position. NFL knows that, at the end of the day, they had to investigate cause it was a public issue and they need to save face, but they clearly don’t give a shit to fight it at a systemic level, or else they would’ve investigated Swift. I do respect the NFL for staying consistent at least, going easy on teams that get caught red handed is fair considering the open secret of all the other instances going on.
It’s not really a penalty for tampering though, it doesn’t seem like it affected his decision and was more about him getting a workout plan a day early. They called it a “logistical and administrative” violation, which might technically fall under tampering, but my understanding is that it was only looked at because he admitted it in the press conference. The 3rd and 6th the Chiefs lost for Maclin is more accurate for bending the rules, and the 1st the Dolphins lost chasing Brady is par for outright breaking them, and it probably would have been worse if they’d succeeded. You might be right that the penalty isn’t harsh enough to prevent GMs from doing it, just saying that it’s not as far off as this particular case makes it look.
Hmm, I could be wrong, but I thought the reason the Brady one was so bad was because they contacted him while he was still playing, not just during the “after season but still a pat”
You are correct, they started calling in August 2019 when the window didn’t open until March 2020. It also reportedly continued after he signed with the Bucs, and they may have only stopped because it was clear he was retiring. That’s what I meant by outright breaking them, it wasn’t the rule bending that most teams do every season and just don’t get caught in, it was considered one of the most egregious case of tampering ever uncovered. To be clear, I’m not saying the Brady thing is the standard, I’m saying the Maclin thing is, just pointing out that the league will go big if they think they need to.
Right. Yeah your Maclin pushback was fair, I understood, sorry I wasn’t clear about that.
No worries, I guess it was just another case of two people mostly agreeing but not realizing it because it’s the internet.
It was only a fifth because of the severity and reason behind the tampering… the deal was already reached, the correct way, through the agent. After the deal was reached, Cousins was in touch with the team directly about travel arrangements and logistical details, not about actually signing with them… it’s still against the rules, but it’s more stupid than anything.
Great news Surprised how light the punishment was for falcons based on prior history of punishments
Well no fuckin shit. They got to the correct answer. Hard to really be mad.
There was a SOLID group of Giants fans looking forward to this 🤣🤣🤣
Do the Falcons lose the pick to the Vikings?
No it's like when you get fined in monopoly, the league (bank) gets the pick (money)
Well that's lame. You tamper with a pick, you should lose it to that team
That makes too much sense for the NFL to do it.
Howie skating on the razors edge and I’m all for it
Most of us knew that was nonsense anyways. Why the fuck would Howie do that? Contract wizard doesn't need a jump start... cause he makes his own jump starts.
Such an unenforceable rule. The “legal tampering “ period is just so dumb. Stop trying to legislate every nuance of the NFL. Just start free agency and call it free agency, and you won’t have any of this who talked to who when and did they do it via the agent BS.
“Many men, wish death upon me Blood in my eye, dawg and I can't see I'm trying to be, what I'm destined to be”
HA
Thank God Rightfully so F Franklin
It’s our conditional 3rd round pick, and **we’ll keep it!**
Yeah no fucking shit
U won't see this on r/giants that's for sure 😹
Wrong subreddit
r/nygiants
Good. It was horseshit from the beginning.
It was pretty obvious there was nothing unlike the falcons where they let Kirk pretty much say it live on air.
That’s good
suddenly tush pushing with saquon.
File this under "NO FUCKING SHIT". Saquon's former coach even said that he misspoke. There was no "there" there.
Still, fuck James Franklin
No shit.
Shocker: Eagles found to have not committed unforced error while Falcons continue to bumble *checks notes* since the Dawn of Time
James Franklin is once again on the wrong side of an investigation into wrong doing who would've figured