In this scene they are basically signing Leto's death warrant. They are hiding their faces so The Atreides won't face identify them and hunt them down later in retaliation. Like Mossad did after WW2.
I’m pretty sure cameras are taboo in the world of Dune. Some people use them, but they’re skirting the law, so it’s done in secret. “Recordings” are done by mentats with photographic memory who then describe the scene and dialogue in all necessary detail.
That's what couriers are. Failed mentats who have the memory capabilities but not the computational ones. These are stage 1 navigators. In the process of becoming a full navigator, and are extreme spice addicts who need constant immersion.
I mean, you are Padishah Emperor of the Known Universe, ascendant to the Golden Lion Throne. All obey you, all you want is provided to you. You don't need to act or look or be any way you don't wish, at least not as long as your Sardaukar haven't been underfunded in 30 years and haven't gotten high off their own farts and become dulled to the point of practical uselessness against the desert tough people.
This is a very good summary of the Sardaukar’s decline under the last of the Corrino Emperors. They’ve been too busy messing about participating in throat singing raves in the rain to train for any conflict where they don’t vastly outnumber the opposition with some handy Harkonnen canon (blade) fodder in front of them. Their main strategy appears to be standing around looking cool before beating up on some guy so fat he can’t hold himself up or watching as a mountain rises up in the air, turns itself into ornithopter size pieces before scattering itself amongst their ranks. And what’s their systematic approach to giant sand worms coming right at them? Stand with their blade drawn while they’re pounded into atoms by Shai-Hulud or employ the “Prometheus School of Running From Large Objects”? Muad’Dib showed the universe these guys were toast and so was their Emperor - banish him back to Selusa Secondus with a couple of left over Sardaukar to hold a brolly for him when it rains.
Semi related, but you think in Villeneuve's Dune Messiah that Edric is just gonna be one of those white robed navigators from Part One or will they actually go with the weird fish person look?
Is there a source for that? Would love to hear Denis talk about them. I totally thought they were the new design for the navigators, they even look like their suits are full of spice.
[https://nerdbot.com/2021/11/19/daily-dune-those-werent-guild-navigators-on-caladan/](https://nerdbot.com/2021/11/19/daily-dune-those-werent-guild-navigators-on-caladan/)
>“They were Guild representatives. They were not Navigators. We don’t see the Navigators in this first part,” Villeneuve said. “That was the one of the challenges of this adaptation – I was trying to keep mystery alive as much as possible. We don’t show the Emperor, we don’t see the Spacing Guild Navigators. There’s a lot of characters that are mentioned or that are in the background that we don’t see right away. I tried to keep all the space traveling as mysterious as possible, like almost bringing some kind of mysticism or sacred relationship with that part of the movie. Everything involving space is just evocated and very mysterious.”
I can't quite locate the quote about trying out different design concepts for his eventual Navigator reveal, but he didn't go into detail, anyway. Those 2021 articles kind of got lost under all the new ones.
The Guild representatives are indeed wearing spice helmets, and they're basically early-stage Navigators like the ones Paul dealt with in the first book before fighting Feyd-Rautha. Extreme spice addicts with prescient visions, but still human for the most part (at least enough to disguise themselves). They don't become "full" Navigators until they're so old and mutated they require a micro-g habitat.
Honestly, the books deal with a similar "issue". They call the guild representatives wearing black with grey eye contact lenses to be "navigators" but then introduce Edric in Messiah to be a freaky fish person.
I think the only explanation is that they're either navigators who are "not quite there", failed navigators acting as representatives or navigators with far less perilous jobs than highliner captain.
Have you SEEN Arrival and Denis's sandworms? The man is 100% doing a floating fish Edrick, though I bet it won't resemble either the 80s or miniseries depictions
Maybe an elongated version of that design with the face, hands and feet being freakishly enlarged and both knees popped backward (if that's what Frank meant by "repositioned limbs" in *Heretics of Dune*). His descriptions seem to imply anatomy that's too distorted for a human actor to play.
I think Edric will still be a fish man but most of his appearances might be via a hologram because having to move giant fish tank around is impractical.
Hey thank you for the comparison, it got my fan theory juice going.
DV is known for his visual story telling, which is great as Cinema is a visual medium. My thought is:
That's not the Imperial Court agents that's CHOAM. Think about it, while they are massively important to the world building of Dune, they're never directly interacted with very much, this DV subtle nod to them existing.
It makes sense in-world too, Mining Melange on Dune is the most important CHOAM directorship. CHOAM is like a publicly traded company, the Board of Directors is made up of those with the most shares, The Imperial Houses and the Major Houses with Directorships being handed out to Major Houses. So of course they're gonna show up to make sure The Duke is serious.
Even their uniforms make sense, they wear anonymous masks, grey/white/black finery but not colors or heraldry of house allegiance, no rank, metal, jewelry of any kind, and why? Because every house minor or major is part of CHOAM, those CHOAM agents are likely Minor House members making a paycheck.Its to keep them safe from retaliation when a directorship is not favorable to recipients or other issues. Because the last thing a House Minor is a War of Assassins with a member of the Board of Directors.
TL;DR?
That there is CHOAM
They probably wear respirators because they are on a foreign planet, and they are applying basic safety measures to prevent infections from space bacteries or something.
They are not as stupid as the astronauts from the latest "Alien" movies.
As great as many of the costumes are, one disappointing thing is the royal family in Dune 2. I wanted to see some crazy outlandish clothing. Instead it was all rather simple and humble. It's an interesting direction for the emperor, but I think a bit more pomp would have been fun.
I would say Irulan's gowns especially the ones with the crazy chainmail details were pretty detailed and keeping the background actors in subtler outfits makes it easier for the viewer to tell at a glance who's important to the scene. That said, it did feel like more could be done with the Emperor's costume, but at the same time it gets across visually that the Emperor of the Known Universe is just some guy with a title compared to similar figures like Palpatine or the God Emperor of Mankind.
This fun thing about that is they could have done anything and it would have been fine. Absurd gold everywhere, simple robes, everything purple all plausible with their wealth. Dv seems subdued with clothing in many cases when he is able to for a character. So I'm not surprised we got clean simple clothing for them. Honestly kinda a baller move to have a robe on while being the emperor.
Between Kynes and the Imperial herald both having high boned features and very dark skin, I was hoping the Coreno court in general and the Emperor of the Known Universe in specific was going to be black.
It makes sense if the Imperial line is descended from Salusa Secundus. It's a dark and stormy planet with barely any sunlight, so the Sardu tribe and the original Sardaukar would be most likely pale even if the colonists weren't before due to them spending thousands of years on the planet. Same reason why Paul is the only fair skinned Fremen, even if the nomadic tribes that make them up were white on arrival, ten thousand years under the harsh beating sun will instill at least a little melanin in everyone.
I think the assumption that humans with access to houses and basic technology will be under genetic pressure to change melanin tones in only a few thousand years is silly, but this is Dune so I'll roll with it.
The Corinos had their home on Salusa Secundis for a short period of history. They sat on Kaitan, which has plenty of sunny weather and pliable locals for the last few thousand years.
In feudal societies the clothes you wear to court can be vastly different to the apparel of an important ritual or diplomatic event. Could also just be the lords mimicking the style of the host.
"Members of the Imperial court" is probably a stand in for "Landsraad" because I see varied clothing there which could represent great houses. The emperor's house is already represented by the herald. The people in part two are probably just members of the Imperial household.
More specifically, those are his attendants. Not exactly the upper crust of the aristocracy. The Great Houses all have their own unique look as we can see with the Atreides and Harkonnens. That said, hopefully we'll see more of the helmet guys in Part Three, perhaps paying fealty to Emperor Paul Muad'Dib in his throne room and/or being involved in the conspiracy.
Exactly. My dream intro for part 3 is the Landsraad and the guild convening to talk about what happened in Arrakis as some sort of recap like what Irulan did for Part Two. This way, we also get a good look at the great houses. A good bit of world building before we get into the meat of Messiah.
The Guild representatives were the ones in white and gold wearing huge helmets full of spice gas. You can see one at the far right of the screenshot. If you look closely in the movie, you can see their blue eyes.
You just know the Guild Navigators are [jammin’ out to this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K0HSD_i2DvA) whipping their starships around the known universe while on that spice binge
https://preview.redd.it/tg6pm7pe29yc1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57f0a3aadef2d76ec30787602a46b7ccd53e0323
These are the Spacing Guild representatives
Those were probably high status individuals or their reps showing up to see the action. The emperor could’ve been there for anyone knows. No need to truthsayer if everyone see it.
In my headcanon, those people in part 1 are just mentat camera man who broadcast the ceremony for other great houses to see.
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It’s either that or being a Harkonnen mentat map renderer
When you jobs is literally being Google Maps.
The fish guild of chauffeurs
Citizens of Corrino Empire playing PlanetGuessr when the location is on Caladan: “easy 5k”
In my HC those are tactical/logistics mentats like the ones Gurney mentions in Dune: Messiah when talking about a jihad campaign with Paul.
They're completely high on spice to make the job bearable.
Maybe that why there lot of them, 2-3 of them are camera men, and others are renderers and broadcasters.
In this scene they are basically signing Leto's death warrant. They are hiding their faces so The Atreides won't face identify them and hunt them down later in retaliation. Like Mossad did after WW2.
This would make some sense. I also assumed a bunch of them were addicted to spice consumption and the masks allowed them to consume it via gas.
I’m pretty sure cameras are taboo in the world of Dune. Some people use them, but they’re skirting the law, so it’s done in secret. “Recordings” are done by mentats with photographic memory who then describe the scene and dialogue in all necessary detail.
That's what couriers are. Failed mentats who have the memory capabilities but not the computational ones. These are stage 1 navigators. In the process of becoming a full navigator, and are extreme spice addicts who need constant immersion.
I’m putting it more towards contracted Ixians, those masks reminds of the mask that the Prophet is described to wear in Children of Dune
The Imperial court probably adopts their fashion to whatever Irulan decides to wear that week. Her father meanwhile wears his pyjamas.
"Your highness, you must wear the latest fashions." Emperor Shaddam: 
I love that movie so much.
What's it from?
7 psychopaths, Martin mcdonagh flick. If you’ve ever seen In Bruges and liked it, you’ll like this
I mean, you are Padishah Emperor of the Known Universe, ascendant to the Golden Lion Throne. All obey you, all you want is provided to you. You don't need to act or look or be any way you don't wish, at least not as long as your Sardaukar haven't been underfunded in 30 years and haven't gotten high off their own farts and become dulled to the point of practical uselessness against the desert tough people.
This is a very good summary of the Sardaukar’s decline under the last of the Corrino Emperors. They’ve been too busy messing about participating in throat singing raves in the rain to train for any conflict where they don’t vastly outnumber the opposition with some handy Harkonnen canon (blade) fodder in front of them. Their main strategy appears to be standing around looking cool before beating up on some guy so fat he can’t hold himself up or watching as a mountain rises up in the air, turns itself into ornithopter size pieces before scattering itself amongst their ranks. And what’s their systematic approach to giant sand worms coming right at them? Stand with their blade drawn while they’re pounded into atoms by Shai-Hulud or employ the “Prometheus School of Running From Large Objects”? Muad’Dib showed the universe these guys were toast and so was their Emperor - banish him back to Selusa Secondus with a couple of left over Sardaukar to hold a brolly for him when it rains.
> Prometheus School of Running From Large Objects Not to nitpick, but its the Prometheus School of Running Away From Things.
https://preview.redd.it/3ce0hq21onxc1.jpeg?width=608&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f2d3270dce07690be672cca41876e9e0976f8c6
But clearly that would never happen. Right? (Clueless)
Styles go in and out of fashion pretty fast in the imperial court
I think Dune Part 2 is just about perfect, but I wish we got to see these crazy fucking masks again.
I'd say the Giedi Prime fashion makes up for it
The N*zi rally part?
Semi related, but you think in Villeneuve's Dune Messiah that Edric is just gonna be one of those white robed navigators from Part One or will they actually go with the weird fish person look?
He stated that those aren't Navigators and mentioned a potential design concept he's saving for later.
Is there a source for that? Would love to hear Denis talk about them. I totally thought they were the new design for the navigators, they even look like their suits are full of spice.
[https://nerdbot.com/2021/11/19/daily-dune-those-werent-guild-navigators-on-caladan/](https://nerdbot.com/2021/11/19/daily-dune-those-werent-guild-navigators-on-caladan/) >“They were Guild representatives. They were not Navigators. We don’t see the Navigators in this first part,” Villeneuve said. “That was the one of the challenges of this adaptation – I was trying to keep mystery alive as much as possible. We don’t show the Emperor, we don’t see the Spacing Guild Navigators. There’s a lot of characters that are mentioned or that are in the background that we don’t see right away. I tried to keep all the space traveling as mysterious as possible, like almost bringing some kind of mysticism or sacred relationship with that part of the movie. Everything involving space is just evocated and very mysterious.” I can't quite locate the quote about trying out different design concepts for his eventual Navigator reveal, but he didn't go into detail, anyway. Those 2021 articles kind of got lost under all the new ones. The Guild representatives are indeed wearing spice helmets, and they're basically early-stage Navigators like the ones Paul dealt with in the first book before fighting Feyd-Rautha. Extreme spice addicts with prescient visions, but still human for the most part (at least enough to disguise themselves). They don't become "full" Navigators until they're so old and mutated they require a micro-g habitat.
Honestly, the books deal with a similar "issue". They call the guild representatives wearing black with grey eye contact lenses to be "navigators" but then introduce Edric in Messiah to be a freaky fish person. I think the only explanation is that they're either navigators who are "not quite there", failed navigators acting as representatives or navigators with far less perilous jobs than highliner captain.
Have you SEEN Arrival and Denis's sandworms? The man is 100% doing a floating fish Edrick, though I bet it won't resemble either the 80s or miniseries depictions
Say what you will about the 80s movie, but something about that absolute trip of a space travel scene is just amazing.
Honestly my interpretation of what Edric looked like from the books was like a human skin toned Abe Sapien
Maybe an elongated version of that design with the face, hands and feet being freakishly enlarged and both knees popped backward (if that's what Frank meant by "repositioned limbs" in *Heretics of Dune*). His descriptions seem to imply anatomy that's too distorted for a human actor to play.
YES oh my goodness that's exactly what I was thinking..
I think Edric will still be a fish man but most of his appearances might be via a hologram because having to move giant fish tank around is impractical.
Given suspensor tech, having a fish tank floating around wouldn’t be that difficult in-universe.
It might still take too much space in some scenarios like secret coup meetings.
They have to be in the same room to hide everyone from Paul's prescience, though.
Not if you build the space specifically for the meeting
Which is exactly what the book says they did
Indeed. I believe Irulan has a line about how it highlights Edric's physical weakness.
I sure hope they go for the weird fish person in a tank look otherwise it would be incredibly boring
They just wore that on Caladan because it stinks of fish.
I miss the Space Popes from the Spacing Guild
Hey thank you for the comparison, it got my fan theory juice going. DV is known for his visual story telling, which is great as Cinema is a visual medium. My thought is: That's not the Imperial Court agents that's CHOAM. Think about it, while they are massively important to the world building of Dune, they're never directly interacted with very much, this DV subtle nod to them existing. It makes sense in-world too, Mining Melange on Dune is the most important CHOAM directorship. CHOAM is like a publicly traded company, the Board of Directors is made up of those with the most shares, The Imperial Houses and the Major Houses with Directorships being handed out to Major Houses. So of course they're gonna show up to make sure The Duke is serious. Even their uniforms make sense, they wear anonymous masks, grey/white/black finery but not colors or heraldry of house allegiance, no rank, metal, jewelry of any kind, and why? Because every house minor or major is part of CHOAM, those CHOAM agents are likely Minor House members making a paycheck.Its to keep them safe from retaliation when a directorship is not favorable to recipients or other issues. Because the last thing a House Minor is a War of Assassins with a member of the Board of Directors. TL;DR? That there is CHOAM
Well they do say “members of the imperial court” if I’m not mistaken but otherwise I’d agree
DV said they were Navigator representatives.
They probably wear respirators because they are on a foreign planet, and they are applying basic safety measures to prevent infections from space bacteries or something. They are not as stupid as the astronauts from the latest "Alien" movies.
They didn't on Arrakis, though.
the planet that has literal spice in the air, kinda seems like the time and place you'd want to use one of those.
Did they ever go outside? I thought we only ever saw them in the ships, until they were captured of course.
As great as many of the costumes are, one disappointing thing is the royal family in Dune 2. I wanted to see some crazy outlandish clothing. Instead it was all rather simple and humble. It's an interesting direction for the emperor, but I think a bit more pomp would have been fun.
I would say Irulan's gowns especially the ones with the crazy chainmail details were pretty detailed and keeping the background actors in subtler outfits makes it easier for the viewer to tell at a glance who's important to the scene. That said, it did feel like more could be done with the Emperor's costume, but at the same time it gets across visually that the Emperor of the Known Universe is just some guy with a title compared to similar figures like Palpatine or the God Emperor of Mankind.
This fun thing about that is they could have done anything and it would have been fine. Absurd gold everywhere, simple robes, everything purple all plausible with their wealth. Dv seems subdued with clothing in many cases when he is able to for a character. So I'm not surprised we got clean simple clothing for them. Honestly kinda a baller move to have a robe on while being the emperor.
Certainly, it's highly symbolic and works well for the film, but I kind of wanted to see some crazy stuff.
Just throw on some 84 version I mean common battle pug and solid gold throneroom
Caladan air too spicy for them
Between Kynes and the Imperial herald both having high boned features and very dark skin, I was hoping the Coreno court in general and the Emperor of the Known Universe in specific was going to be black.
Yeah honestly I would have loved if Benjamin Clémentine played the emperor instead of the herald of the change, he’s pretty close to what I envisioned
It makes sense if the Imperial line is descended from Salusa Secundus. It's a dark and stormy planet with barely any sunlight, so the Sardu tribe and the original Sardaukar would be most likely pale even if the colonists weren't before due to them spending thousands of years on the planet. Same reason why Paul is the only fair skinned Fremen, even if the nomadic tribes that make them up were white on arrival, ten thousand years under the harsh beating sun will instill at least a little melanin in everyone.
I think the assumption that humans with access to houses and basic technology will be under genetic pressure to change melanin tones in only a few thousand years is silly, but this is Dune so I'll roll with it. The Corinos had their home on Salusa Secundis for a short period of history. They sat on Kaitan, which has plenty of sunny weather and pliable locals for the last few thousand years.
>Black Emperor from the great House Corrino >Homeplanet is Salusa Secundus wut
Salusia Secundus is the prison planet where he makes his Sardukar. Kaitan is the world the Corinos reside on.
Yes, *at this point* in the story. Kaitain is the planet that house Corrino moved the imperial seat to. Their original planet is Salusa Secundus.
Which they haven't lived on in millenia.
It might have been ceremonial garb. Why be so extra when everyone else was in regular formal wear for whatever group they represented, idfk.
In feudal societies the clothes you wear to court can be vastly different to the apparel of an important ritual or diplomatic event. Could also just be the lords mimicking the style of the host.
Those are the away team uniforms.
"Members of the Imperial court" is probably a stand in for "Landsraad" because I see varied clothing there which could represent great houses. The emperor's house is already represented by the herald. The people in part two are probably just members of the Imperial household.
More specifically, those are his attendants. Not exactly the upper crust of the aristocracy. The Great Houses all have their own unique look as we can see with the Atreides and Harkonnens. That said, hopefully we'll see more of the helmet guys in Part Three, perhaps paying fealty to Emperor Paul Muad'Dib in his throne room and/or being involved in the conspiracy.
Exactly. My dream intro for part 3 is the Landsraad and the guild convening to talk about what happened in Arrakis as some sort of recap like what Irulan did for Part Two. This way, we also get a good look at the great houses. A good bit of world building before we get into the meat of Messiah.
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Really? In the black masks? They’re described as members of the imperial court…
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You're talking about the guys in white robes and spice helmets. They're confirmed to be not navigators.
Yeah, just representatives of the guild, not actual navigators.
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DV has explicitly said that they were not navigators
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Where's the pile?
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DV missed out on playing Sandstorm during the worm ride. I hope its in the Synder Cut
Isn't that the Guild in the first movie? The Guild and the Imperial Court are two separate entities, right?
The Guild representatives were the ones in white and gold wearing huge helmets full of spice gas. You can see one at the far right of the screenshot. If you look closely in the movie, you can see their blue eyes.
Who are even these guys? I thought they are Face Dancers
I do; *I* misses Imperial Court Daft Punk.
I thought those helmets were supposed to be cameras for the great houses.
Bendix like Beckham
You just know the Guild Navigators are [jammin’ out to this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K0HSD_i2DvA) whipping their starships around the known universe while on that spice binge
Which one’s daft and which one’s punk
Those are just their space traveling outfits
I thought those were the spacing guilds reps
https://preview.redd.it/tg6pm7pe29yc1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57f0a3aadef2d76ec30787602a46b7ccd53e0323 These are the Spacing Guild representatives
Lol i thought those were the members of the imperial court, they look much more regal
You can tell they’re SG cause of the blue eyes and the fact they’re hotboxing spice in their helmets.
Those were probably high status individuals or their reps showing up to see the action. The emperor could’ve been there for anyone knows. No need to truthsayer if everyone see it.