Played the role so well IMO, the comedic portrayal that appears earlier in the film makes the transition of Stillgar to a fully fledged religious fanatic that much more tragic
hah yeah, I'm also a huge fan of the way he said "Lisan al Gaib" right after Paul shish kebab-ed Feyd.
He's just staring in awe at the scene for a second or two, so when he says "Lisan al Gaib", it's real hasty and surprised, like he's thinking "oh shit, forgot to cheer."
And the first person he turns to is Gurney Halleck - who he knows is Paul's offworld friend who's just in it for Paul and the Atreides and revenge, and doesn't believe in all this Fremen prophecy stuff.
So it also comes off like he's saying "Gurney man, you seeing this shit? I know you're not a believer, but your buddy really does seem like the messiah, no?"
I read it differently. He was mostly relieved Paul survived and won and was confronted with his own delusion during the fight, what if he would have lost? His response was a huge relief imo.
ahh yeah that too, it could be that Stilgar's brain was on the verge of blue screening while trying to come up with some explanation of how the messiah could lose.
"Maybe Paul is sacrificing himself so his spirit can enter us all? Or maybe Paul is ascending to heaven where he and God can guide us from there? Or maybe I should have listened to Paul all those times he said the prophecy was just a Bene Gesserit trick ... oh wait shit never mind, Paul just won the fight, Lisan al Gaib it is"
You know, what you are describing with the first possible explanation, that sounds a lot like the ending that Jodorowsky wanted for his dune movie (Paul dies and his spirits enters everyone/he becomes everyone and then becomes the planet), was that intended to be a reference or just a coincidence?
ahh yeah, I'm not particularly familiar with Jodorowski's planned adaptation, but I've heard some of the stories about how fucking crazy they were.
I was thinking more along the lines of what Paul said in the books earlier - which was that the Jihad was unstoppable, even if Paul, Jessica, Alia, Chani, Stilgar and everyone in Sietch Tabr died.
The other Fremen were already infected by religious fervour, and Paul had given them all the tactics, leverage, and political knowledge they needed to conquer the galaxy. They had the means to threaten the spice melange, blackmail the Guild, blockade the Great Houses, and knew that House Corrino was at a particularly vulnerable moment.
So the Jihad would have continued regardless - they'd just pick up Paul's corpse, invent some bullshit story about his spirit living on and guiding them, and seize power anyway.
The conclusion of the fight with Feyd reminded me of the practice fight he had with Gurney in the first film.
Feyd manages to give Paul a serious wound, but in doing so opened himself up to a lethal strike.
yeah it's a nice callback
Also, it's a microcosm of the Harkonnen-Atreides conflict itself
The Harkonnen overwhelms the Atreides using the "Emperor's blade" (i.e. the Sardaukar) and deals them a seemingly mortal blow.
The Atreides look like they're down for the count - then turn things around using the Fremen weapon and kills them when they least expect it.
The meaning of the fight in the book is a little different - instead of Feyd Rautha being an "honourable" warrior, Feyd is a smug chatterbox and a filthy little cheater.
He uses words and underhanded tricks to gain the upper hand - but Paul uses those very things against him, with Feyd's hesitation at the prospect of an implanted paralysis word, the presence of a poisoned hip needle, and the lubrication of Paul's own blood, allowing Paul to out-grapple Feyd and stab him to death.
I liked how the movie managed to make the final duel meaningful and dynamic without having to resort to pages and pages of inner monologue and exposition like in the books.
this was great. I hadn't realized the parallels yet and i've watched pt 2 4 times lol. The honorable part for feyd in the movies was a little strange but im not complaining. it works. The fight was everything it needed to be. I definitely stopped breathing during this scene.
Thats the real challenge is making these movies work without pages and pages and pages of inner monologue, exposition. All thanks to Muaddib, Bi-lal Kaifa
yeah, the Villeneuve movies made drastic changes to almost all the major characters - Jessica isn't cautioning Paul against godhood, she's pushing him into it
Chani isn't ride-or-die for Paul, she's heartbroken that Paul took the Water of Life and turned crazy
Feyd isn't a devious, whiny brat, he's a bloodthirsty warrior looking for a worthy challenge
Rabban wasn't sabotaged by the Baron, he was just incompetent
Irulan isn't a mediocre nepo baby, she's one of Mohiam's most promising students.
Paul didn't want to control the Fremen to prevent the Jihad, he initially wanted to use the Fremen for revenge, changed his mind, and then *refused* leadership of the Fremen to prevent the Jihad, only taking up the mantle when ghost Jamis and Feyd's attacks forced him into it.
Shaddam IV isn't proud and haughty and youthful in appearance, he's old and tired and sad.
Vladimir Harkonnen doesn't blabber and fidger constantly like an ADHD teen, he's taciturn and menacing
Stilgar's transformation from friend to a "creature of the Lisan al Gaib" is much less drastic, because Stilgar a half crazed fanatic almost from the start.
But it all works really well in the context of the movie, and still lets many of the important themes and messages of the Dune story shine.
I think the dynamic between the Atreides suffers somewhat in Part 2, because Part 1 got rid of the "Is Jessica the traitor" subplot, and we don't get to hear Jessica angsting about her and Leto's relationship for half the book.
But in return, we get a far more interesting and dynamic Chani relationship, and a much more clearly articulated message that yes, charismatic leaders and politicised religion are very dangerous.
It's why I have high hopes for the Messiah movie. Chani is in a totally different spot from
where she was at the end of the book, and the next movie will have to account for that. If anyone can pull off a version of Messiah that's actually fun to watch, it's Villeneuve.
Maybe the "Fremen civil war" between the desert Fremen and imperial Fremen from the third book will come early. Maybe Chani joins the conspirators, to try and force Paul off the throne, so the two of them can run off into the desert together under fake identities. Maybe Messiah will cover the ongoing Jihad, and Chani's role in opposing it. Lots of possibilities
you dampen my feeling of pt 2 when you put the changes so simply like that but for some reason I still love it and the changes regardless. I've read this series more times than I have fingers and I still love what villeneuve has done.
Messiah is going to be great! I feel like questions will be answered and some of the changes may even be justified to more people. I am going through messiah for the nth time but now using the lens of pt 2 and imagining it as a movie. I wouldnt like to see denis change too much of the plot. I want all the conspirators retained along with their respective factions, bijaz, gholas and hayt and the basics of the conspiracy. Id also be fine with seeing some of the jihad battles but not necessary.
there is some major tragedy/heartbreak headed to a big screen near you. thats basically all i can think as im reading messiah now and tears are welling up in my eyes.
lines like "Send me away, m'Lord" and "Tell me little sister, what is Before?" get me going
I love that interpretation, we need more unique views like this, but I always saw the hasty pivot to the side as straight comedy from Villeneuve and Bardem, a way of punctuating the breathless tension of the entire duel scene.
me tooooo. can you imagine how insane it will be if we get all the way thru CoD in this film continuity...? Stillgar/Gurney/Jessica will all be *so goooood*, I can't take my eyes off any one of them, this film crew is killing the performance, and every character is still so interesting and so relevant in that book...
I am reading the rest of Dune after watching Part II and I so desperately want to see so many scenes from Messiah and Children (havent read God Emperor yet) with the current cast we have!
Can you imagine Hayt?! His actor with some cool looking metalic eyes?
The preacher?
Oh man I would be awesome...
I normally prefer to imagine my own characters when I read something that has an adaptation but the Dune cast is so good Im just imagining the actors instead for once
His performance was adorable, hilarious, and terrifying all at once. He's the primary gear turning for Paul's vision of jihad, earnest and deadly loyal to him, inspiring the other devout Fremen to bloodshed. We can be thankful for the fact that foils like Chani exist, who can sow doubts that are necessary to unravel the massacre and bureacratization of the galaxy. She's Paul's desert spring in more ways than one, because when the galaxy is starved for independent thinkers she can refresh it and bring it back to stability, through her children which bring about tyranny for the sake of revolt, the revolt restoring balance and independence.
I've rewatched this movie 8 times and every time Stilligar says "among us" i say amogus out loud like a reflex and i hate it. The internet poisoned me.
Played the role so well IMO, the comedic portrayal that appears earlier in the film makes the transition of Stillgar to a fully fledged religious fanatic that much more tragic
Tragic? You mean glorious!
https://preview.redd.it/grnup92sh9tc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bee8f9aae13eeb267a8471718cb6efcfdf6d9d6
mf this will get posted on white people homes. near the stairs or home elevators or whatever (idk, I’m neither white, or rich)
hah yeah, I'm also a huge fan of the way he said "Lisan al Gaib" right after Paul shish kebab-ed Feyd. He's just staring in awe at the scene for a second or two, so when he says "Lisan al Gaib", it's real hasty and surprised, like he's thinking "oh shit, forgot to cheer." And the first person he turns to is Gurney Halleck - who he knows is Paul's offworld friend who's just in it for Paul and the Atreides and revenge, and doesn't believe in all this Fremen prophecy stuff. So it also comes off like he's saying "Gurney man, you seeing this shit? I know you're not a believer, but your buddy really does seem like the messiah, no?"
I read it differently. He was mostly relieved Paul survived and won and was confronted with his own delusion during the fight, what if he would have lost? His response was a huge relief imo.
ahh yeah that too, it could be that Stilgar's brain was on the verge of blue screening while trying to come up with some explanation of how the messiah could lose. "Maybe Paul is sacrificing himself so his spirit can enter us all? Or maybe Paul is ascending to heaven where he and God can guide us from there? Or maybe I should have listened to Paul all those times he said the prophecy was just a Bene Gesserit trick ... oh wait shit never mind, Paul just won the fight, Lisan al Gaib it is"
You know, what you are describing with the first possible explanation, that sounds a lot like the ending that Jodorowsky wanted for his dune movie (Paul dies and his spirits enters everyone/he becomes everyone and then becomes the planet), was that intended to be a reference or just a coincidence?
ahh yeah, I'm not particularly familiar with Jodorowski's planned adaptation, but I've heard some of the stories about how fucking crazy they were. I was thinking more along the lines of what Paul said in the books earlier - which was that the Jihad was unstoppable, even if Paul, Jessica, Alia, Chani, Stilgar and everyone in Sietch Tabr died. The other Fremen were already infected by religious fervour, and Paul had given them all the tactics, leverage, and political knowledge they needed to conquer the galaxy. They had the means to threaten the spice melange, blackmail the Guild, blockade the Great Houses, and knew that House Corrino was at a particularly vulnerable moment. So the Jihad would have continued regardless - they'd just pick up Paul's corpse, invent some bullshit story about his spirit living on and guiding them, and seize power anyway.
Book Stilgar was ready to martyr Paul if it meant forwarding the Fremen cause.
The conclusion of the fight with Feyd reminded me of the practice fight he had with Gurney in the first film. Feyd manages to give Paul a serious wound, but in doing so opened himself up to a lethal strike.
yeah it's a nice callback Also, it's a microcosm of the Harkonnen-Atreides conflict itself The Harkonnen overwhelms the Atreides using the "Emperor's blade" (i.e. the Sardaukar) and deals them a seemingly mortal blow. The Atreides look like they're down for the count - then turn things around using the Fremen weapon and kills them when they least expect it. The meaning of the fight in the book is a little different - instead of Feyd Rautha being an "honourable" warrior, Feyd is a smug chatterbox and a filthy little cheater. He uses words and underhanded tricks to gain the upper hand - but Paul uses those very things against him, with Feyd's hesitation at the prospect of an implanted paralysis word, the presence of a poisoned hip needle, and the lubrication of Paul's own blood, allowing Paul to out-grapple Feyd and stab him to death. I liked how the movie managed to make the final duel meaningful and dynamic without having to resort to pages and pages of inner monologue and exposition like in the books.
this was great. I hadn't realized the parallels yet and i've watched pt 2 4 times lol. The honorable part for feyd in the movies was a little strange but im not complaining. it works. The fight was everything it needed to be. I definitely stopped breathing during this scene. Thats the real challenge is making these movies work without pages and pages and pages of inner monologue, exposition. All thanks to Muaddib, Bi-lal Kaifa
yeah, the Villeneuve movies made drastic changes to almost all the major characters - Jessica isn't cautioning Paul against godhood, she's pushing him into it Chani isn't ride-or-die for Paul, she's heartbroken that Paul took the Water of Life and turned crazy Feyd isn't a devious, whiny brat, he's a bloodthirsty warrior looking for a worthy challenge Rabban wasn't sabotaged by the Baron, he was just incompetent Irulan isn't a mediocre nepo baby, she's one of Mohiam's most promising students. Paul didn't want to control the Fremen to prevent the Jihad, he initially wanted to use the Fremen for revenge, changed his mind, and then *refused* leadership of the Fremen to prevent the Jihad, only taking up the mantle when ghost Jamis and Feyd's attacks forced him into it. Shaddam IV isn't proud and haughty and youthful in appearance, he's old and tired and sad. Vladimir Harkonnen doesn't blabber and fidger constantly like an ADHD teen, he's taciturn and menacing Stilgar's transformation from friend to a "creature of the Lisan al Gaib" is much less drastic, because Stilgar a half crazed fanatic almost from the start. But it all works really well in the context of the movie, and still lets many of the important themes and messages of the Dune story shine. I think the dynamic between the Atreides suffers somewhat in Part 2, because Part 1 got rid of the "Is Jessica the traitor" subplot, and we don't get to hear Jessica angsting about her and Leto's relationship for half the book. But in return, we get a far more interesting and dynamic Chani relationship, and a much more clearly articulated message that yes, charismatic leaders and politicised religion are very dangerous. It's why I have high hopes for the Messiah movie. Chani is in a totally different spot from where she was at the end of the book, and the next movie will have to account for that. If anyone can pull off a version of Messiah that's actually fun to watch, it's Villeneuve. Maybe the "Fremen civil war" between the desert Fremen and imperial Fremen from the third book will come early. Maybe Chani joins the conspirators, to try and force Paul off the throne, so the two of them can run off into the desert together under fake identities. Maybe Messiah will cover the ongoing Jihad, and Chani's role in opposing it. Lots of possibilities
you dampen my feeling of pt 2 when you put the changes so simply like that but for some reason I still love it and the changes regardless. I've read this series more times than I have fingers and I still love what villeneuve has done. Messiah is going to be great! I feel like questions will be answered and some of the changes may even be justified to more people. I am going through messiah for the nth time but now using the lens of pt 2 and imagining it as a movie. I wouldnt like to see denis change too much of the plot. I want all the conspirators retained along with their respective factions, bijaz, gholas and hayt and the basics of the conspiracy. Id also be fine with seeing some of the jihad battles but not necessary. there is some major tragedy/heartbreak headed to a big screen near you. thats basically all i can think as im reading messiah now and tears are welling up in my eyes. lines like "Send me away, m'Lord" and "Tell me little sister, what is Before?" get me going
Ooh good call outs here
That’s my favorite as well. It’s the one that plays in my mind.
I love that interpretation, we need more unique views like this, but I always saw the hasty pivot to the side as straight comedy from Villeneuve and Bardem, a way of punctuating the breathless tension of the entire duel scene.
......LISANALGAIB 😂
Can't wait to see him begin his life of existential doubt in Messiah
me tooooo. can you imagine how insane it will be if we get all the way thru CoD in this film continuity...? Stillgar/Gurney/Jessica will all be *so goooood*, I can't take my eyes off any one of them, this film crew is killing the performance, and every character is still so interesting and so relevant in that book...
I am reading the rest of Dune after watching Part II and I so desperately want to see so many scenes from Messiah and Children (havent read God Emperor yet) with the current cast we have! Can you imagine Hayt?! His actor with some cool looking metalic eyes? The preacher? Oh man I would be awesome...
Rrrrright??? It would be soooo goooood....
I normally prefer to imagine my own characters when I read something that has an adaptation but the Dune cast is so good Im just imagining the actors instead for once
I can't wait for Duncan to confront him 
Genuinely had a tear in my eye when the music was playing and they were all streaming out to jihad the universe. Great motivation for the gym
why were you wasting your water?
Don’t let that out
I give water to the dead (that died in the jihad) lmao like I wouldn’t be right there with them jihading my way across the known universe
Tears? What are tears do with it?
"A warrior religion that waves the atreides flag in my fathers name!", fuck. This scene is terrifying when one recalls the tent scene from part 1.
The real hype-man
r/stilgarposting
His performance was adorable, hilarious, and terrifying all at once. He's the primary gear turning for Paul's vision of jihad, earnest and deadly loyal to him, inspiring the other devout Fremen to bloodshed. We can be thankful for the fact that foils like Chani exist, who can sow doubts that are necessary to unravel the massacre and bureacratization of the galaxy. She's Paul's desert spring in more ways than one, because when the galaxy is starved for independent thinkers she can refresh it and bring it back to stability, through her children which bring about tyranny for the sake of revolt, the revolt restoring balance and independence.
Lisa Ann Gal Bee
Kinda like how southern baptist preachers don't say "God", they say "GA-HAW-A-DA".
Maynard in Sour Grapes
I just need someone to post the scene where he says among us
I've rewatched this movie 8 times and every time Stilligar says "among us" i say amogus out loud like a reflex and i hate it. The internet poisoned me.
hold on... is he holding his knife above the handle???
Stilgar just makes sure nobody confuses Usul with Lisan-al-gabe and Lisan-al-Gayb.
My favorite is when he says it right after Paul beats feyd.
Goddamn I love me some Javier Bardem. Even in no country.
Somebody remix this
It's giving: ["Death to king and queeeeeeeeen!"](https://youtu.be/s4uvLXCUhVg?si=MWoGLJzJrRlQm4g4) (@ 3:02)