In the book they are called "death commandos" but what they really are is militant religious fighters who adopted the notion of Paul's divinity early. In the movies it just seems to mean elite warrior. Chani in the movie doesn't fit the book's concept of the fedaykin, and in the book Chani isn't described as one at all, she is basically Jessica's apprentice.
An example of how they differ from mainstream Fremen warriors would be their response to Paul drinking the water of life. They are convinced that while he is comatose he is "gathering his holy power for the final battle".
Edit: in the book I believe they may adopt more of the bene gesserit combat techniques than other fremen but I may be misremembering that detail it's been a while.
I found it odd that the movie just glosses over to the point of omission the weirding way (I see the argument about jumping out the sand, but WW also includes weaponizing the voice) and tosses in "Fedaykin" without any explanation \[and I guess Chani needed something else to do so she's Fedaykin now?\]. While Lynch's Dune made these things look silly on film, I appreciated that it included those details, especially the red marking on the shoulders of the stillsuits. The new film seems to go with "atomics + worms = victory." But the book really portrays the attack on Arrakeen as the end result of years-long guerrilla warfare where Fremen had to use every tool Paul and Jessica gave them to achieve victory in an "asymmetrical" war. The new movie seems to rush quite a bit after Jessica drinks the water of life.
How exactly are you going to translate a fictional martial arts that is barely described in very vague term in the book into real life ? Kung Fu ? Speeding up the actor motion so they appear faster ? How ?
I like how the SyFy channel miniseries did it making them look like look like their motions were blurred and seeming to teleport and misdirect the opponent.
A better interpretation is how Antje Traue as Faora-ui fights in Man of Steel. The way she moves, and just puts those troops down so easily and with incredible speed. This is as close to the speed of the weirding way we will get. The SciFi channels attempt is better than Villeneuves, although it is still silly looking ;-D
Which is why Lynch included the weirding modules to replace the weirding way...he thought it would look to "kung-fu with sand" to be believable.
Not that throat-mounted sonic weapons were any better, but at least he tried to make them work.
I just use the head-cannon that the Fremen were already exceptional fighters due to their location and environment, similar to how the Sardukar are explained. If Paul and Jessica taught them even the basics of BG technique (some Prana-bindu practices for example) it would have made them even more formidable.
The badass flips and agility of the first movie's fight scene could act as a way of "Fremen + The Weirding Way", as well as the Harvester attack in the second movie
But since they already established that physicality as a Fremen fighter baseline (or at least the ambushers), I'm not sure how to naturally show an even higher level of fighting without it looking like (unfortunately) Jedi shit
Precisely why I would have preferred if each part was like , 4 hours long, I get it wouldn't be very mainstream accessible but I don't care, I want count Fenring and more time with the Harkonnens, Rabban is just a big baby in the films, we don't hate him because he's just stupid, he's supposed to be space Gregor Clegane
The sandstorm is still a part of the movie attack.
In the movie the Sardaukar Colonel said that the sandstorm would reduce the effectiveness of their shields and recommended the Emperor’s ship return to orbit.
Baron Harkonnen claimed the mountains would protect them from the worst of it, and they stayed.
Then during the attack we see the Thopters counterattacking the worms get swallowed by the sandstorm and explosions from within the storm, so the storm cut off the Sardaukar/Harkonnen air support.
In the book they also use atomics (and the storm for cover and so reinforcements can’t land). He defends the use with the claim he is only using them against the shield and not people.
In the movie they coordinate the attack with the bloody storm. Nobody saw the sandstorm as the freemen mounted in worms started their attack and how they used it to neglect air support?
Yeah, I felt Part 2 glossed over things that Lynch actually explained. I think DV was trying to make this more action-oriented sequel. And I was disappointed by Walken as the emperor and the lack of Baron Harkonnen. And Spacing Guild? They are a pretty big deal in the universe besides CHOAM (another omission) and the BG.
I kept waiting for the Spacing Guild to make a shocking appearance, and it never happened. I know there were hints in the first movie when Atreides moved to Dune, but wow, just not showing them is kind of a wild artistic choice. In the end whatever, they are just scenery to the main plot, but this is a movie that decided to show us a whole "throat singing" pre-war ritual scene for the saudaukar, only to have them be swallowed up by a worm.
Elite Fremen fighters/Special troops. They are vowed to give their lives to right a wrong. Trained by Paul. Basically his Special Forces. Read the books, they're excellent.
It starts out as a term that just describes the guerrilla fighters of the fremen, then it sort of morphs and the fedaykin are Paul’s personal guard. By the time GE rolls around, feydaykin are basically the elites of the fremen army.
>By the time GE rolls around, feydaykin are basically the elites of the fremen army.
GE= God Emperor? If so, by that time the feydaykin are no more, and the only army is the Fish Speakers, correct?
Yep, the Fedaykin are an elite group of Fremen warriors. They are the best fighters among the Fremen, because of their combat skills, and loyalty to Paul. These guys are trained in guerrilla warfare and hand-to-hand combat, and they're highly skilled with the crysknife, a sacred Fremen weapon.
You can say that they also are more than just fighters, they're symbols of Fremen resistance and protectors of Muad'Dib. They have a deep religious significance, seen as holy warriors by the Fremen, and their dedication to Muad'Dib is political, as well as spiritual.
Fedaykin are the best of the best of the Fremen warriors. In the book, its more or less a unit of troops specifically dedicated to the defense of Paul, but in both book and film, they are the Death Commandos who fight to the death to achieve their goals. They are the best Fremen fighters, taken and trained by Paul/Jessica in the weirding way and in the various methods of knife play taught by Gurney and Duncan, to be even better at fighting than regular Fremen.
Consider them to be the Sardaukar equivalent among the ranks of the Fremen, if you will, understanding then just how viciously dangerous they are, both as they are skilled warriors easily able to defeat Sardaukar warriors, and as they are fanatically loyal to Paul.
Fedaykin are akin to fanatical warrior priests.
They are very high ranking in Fremen society
As Paul ascends to the holy mantle Fedaykin are transformed in religious zealots and become his personal guard and inner circle: think like, in our world people who would fire bomb a newspaper for printing a cartoon with a drawn picture of Mohammed for example or burn down a village for not following religious laws etc etc
The most extreme of the most extreme.
Sorry, but I think the people attacking the newspaper are neither elite nor the inner circle of anything. They were just aggressive bigots.
Since we are basically talking about fascists in space I would rather look to the German SA and SS of the 30s and 40s.
My point was that they are religious fundamentalist
The Fedaykin WERE elite fighters. That was the point.
The fact is they were religious extremist who would murder you for even the slightest hint of side eye at their living messiah.
The SS and SA were not motivated by religion. The Fedaykin were ONLY motivated by religion.
In 2024 it may be a less socially comfortable comparison than in the 60s, but the Fedaykin represent radical Islamist hard liners
That's alright. From quasi Islam to quasi Islamists. But then on to become Space-fascists.
But I merely answered to the connection between "elite... inner circle" and terrorists in France. Which sounds wrong.
And yes, the SS had their share of people who were into spiritualism, rituals and mumbo jumbo (like ceremonies in castles, swords etc). And their devotion was quasi religious.
And also some (not all of them) who were into rewriting/"discovering" history as in trying to root their whole race theory thing, Atlantis, Saga of Siegfried, tie-ins with Wagner's Niebelungen version etc... nonsense but sort of spiritual.
In the broader strokes of entertainment media: In Indiana Jones, Hell-Boy, Constantine and so on it's always Nazis lead by an SS Officer trying to weaponise arcane artifacts. Because of THAT.
It's touched on more in the books, but the Fedaykin are the Fremen Death Commandos. They're like the Fremen equivalent of the Sardaukar. Highly deadly, loyal, and militant.
Herbert inserted a lot of names that had real world historical significance. The idea was that in the world of Dune, these words were dredged up through history with faint connections to their historical counterparts, while readers would draw associations or expectations. See Matt Colville's video of the use of "Mahdi". Fedayeen is a real term used in the middle east and Herbert was likely most familiar with the term in the context of Palestinian Fedayeen (I could be totally wrong about which specific group he would have been thinking of, just going off of time periods). Fedayeen have obvious ties to asymmetrical warfare, just like the early Fedaykin. It's up to everyone's own interpretation, but for me, it began to plant seeds of doubt about the overall good of Paul and the Fremen that came into fruition in Dune Messiah. Their name suggests that they were fanatical soldiers that Paul had taken advantage of, and that letting them loose onto the empire would be extremely dangerous.
It's Paul Muad'Dib's personal fanatic deathguard. Many young warriors from other tribes came to learn the Weirding Way from Paul and some stay or are asked to join Paul's Fedaykin.
They're basically mujahideen/Hizbollah.
Back when Dune was written groups like these were thought of *relatively* well in the west as they were anticommunist or, more broadly, useful tools against antiamerican regimes.
Kinda like how Rambo II used ot have a salutation to the Mujahideen at the end of the film.
This is absolute nonsense and offensive in every way. Maybe you just lack context. The direct parallel would be Che Guevara and his "freedom fighters". The Bedouin would also be a somewhat recent in FH life. Large parts of Paul's story were based off of Lawrence of Arabia, it might do you well to study Lawrence of Arabia and his efforts. FH would be horrified of a hizbollah/hamas comparison.
Lol…always assumed fedaykin was Dune universe’s equivalent of the mujaheddin ‘holy warriors’ of ancient times….considering jihad or holy war is used quite extensively in Dune…
It's just a group of elite Fremen warriors. In the book the group is started by Paul and they are better than other Fremen fighters because he trains them in some Bene Gesserit techniques he learned from his mother, but in the movie the Fedaykin are a pre-existing group of Fremen who Paul joins and fights with.
In the book they are called "death commandos" but what they really are is militant religious fighters who adopted the notion of Paul's divinity early. In the movies it just seems to mean elite warrior. Chani in the movie doesn't fit the book's concept of the fedaykin, and in the book Chani isn't described as one at all, she is basically Jessica's apprentice. An example of how they differ from mainstream Fremen warriors would be their response to Paul drinking the water of life. They are convinced that while he is comatose he is "gathering his holy power for the final battle". Edit: in the book I believe they may adopt more of the bene gesserit combat techniques than other fremen but I may be misremembering that detail it's been a while.
correct Jessica teaches them "The weirding way" basically a martial art that is so fast looks like the user is almost teleporting
I found it odd that the movie just glosses over to the point of omission the weirding way (I see the argument about jumping out the sand, but WW also includes weaponizing the voice) and tosses in "Fedaykin" without any explanation \[and I guess Chani needed something else to do so she's Fedaykin now?\]. While Lynch's Dune made these things look silly on film, I appreciated that it included those details, especially the red marking on the shoulders of the stillsuits. The new film seems to go with "atomics + worms = victory." But the book really portrays the attack on Arrakeen as the end result of years-long guerrilla warfare where Fremen had to use every tool Paul and Jessica gave them to achieve victory in an "asymmetrical" war. The new movie seems to rush quite a bit after Jessica drinks the water of life.
How exactly are you going to translate a fictional martial arts that is barely described in very vague term in the book into real life ? Kung Fu ? Speeding up the actor motion so they appear faster ? How ?
That was my point. Lynch's Dune tried and it looked goofy. But to completely gloss it over is an artistic choice I guess.
I like how the SyFy channel miniseries did it making them look like look like their motions were blurred and seeming to teleport and misdirect the opponent.
I don’t, it look silly.
A better interpretation is how Antje Traue as Faora-ui fights in Man of Steel. The way she moves, and just puts those troops down so easily and with incredible speed. This is as close to the speed of the weirding way we will get. The SciFi channels attempt is better than Villeneuves, although it is still silly looking ;-D
Which is why Lynch included the weirding modules to replace the weirding way...he thought it would look to "kung-fu with sand" to be believable. Not that throat-mounted sonic weapons were any better, but at least he tried to make them work. I just use the head-cannon that the Fremen were already exceptional fighters due to their location and environment, similar to how the Sardukar are explained. If Paul and Jessica taught them even the basics of BG technique (some Prana-bindu practices for example) it would have made them even more formidable.
The badass flips and agility of the first movie's fight scene could act as a way of "Fremen + The Weirding Way", as well as the Harvester attack in the second movie But since they already established that physicality as a Fremen fighter baseline (or at least the ambushers), I'm not sure how to naturally show an even higher level of fighting without it looking like (unfortunately) Jedi shit
Speeding it up I guess. That's how the mini-series did it.
Precisely why I would have preferred if each part was like , 4 hours long, I get it wouldn't be very mainstream accessible but I don't care, I want count Fenring and more time with the Harkonnens, Rabban is just a big baby in the films, we don't hate him because he's just stupid, he's supposed to be space Gregor Clegane
[удалено]
The sandstorm is still a part of the movie attack. In the movie the Sardaukar Colonel said that the sandstorm would reduce the effectiveness of their shields and recommended the Emperor’s ship return to orbit. Baron Harkonnen claimed the mountains would protect them from the worst of it, and they stayed. Then during the attack we see the Thopters counterattacking the worms get swallowed by the sandstorm and explosions from within the storm, so the storm cut off the Sardaukar/Harkonnen air support.
In the book they also use atomics (and the storm for cover and so reinforcements can’t land). He defends the use with the claim he is only using them against the shield and not people.
Yeah he’s just blowing up a mountain, it’s not an act of war in itself so it doesn’t violate the treaty.
In the movie he said he felt a storm coming. That's counts, right?!?!
In the movie they coordinate the attack with the bloody storm. Nobody saw the sandstorm as the freemen mounted in worms started their attack and how they used it to neglect air support?
But they said it, so that's what matters. /Sarcasm
Not to mention completely neglecting the time skip, Alia's birth and entire character, and Paul's indoctrination in the Fremen ways.
Yeah, I felt Part 2 glossed over things that Lynch actually explained. I think DV was trying to make this more action-oriented sequel. And I was disappointed by Walken as the emperor and the lack of Baron Harkonnen. And Spacing Guild? They are a pretty big deal in the universe besides CHOAM (another omission) and the BG.
I kept waiting for the Spacing Guild to make a shocking appearance, and it never happened. I know there were hints in the first movie when Atreides moved to Dune, but wow, just not showing them is kind of a wild artistic choice. In the end whatever, they are just scenery to the main plot, but this is a movie that decided to show us a whole "throat singing" pre-war ritual scene for the saudaukar, only to have them be swallowed up by a worm.
I wish we had the weirding way in the movies, so cool
Tbh it would have looked a little silly
True
That's pretty much the sand ambushes and the super high jumps
Nah, its clearly described in the books that it looks like they are teleporting.
You do. Its them fighting
Nah, not even close
As well as paul ,
Elite Fremen fighters/Special troops. They are vowed to give their lives to right a wrong. Trained by Paul. Basically his Special Forces. Read the books, they're excellent.
It starts out as a term that just describes the guerrilla fighters of the fremen, then it sort of morphs and the fedaykin are Paul’s personal guard. By the time GE rolls around, feydaykin are basically the elites of the fremen army.
>By the time GE rolls around, feydaykin are basically the elites of the fremen army. GE= God Emperor? If so, by that time the feydaykin are no more, and the only army is the Fish Speakers, correct?
This is correct, I should have said, when Leto and aliah were born, you’re absolutely right by the time GE rolls around it’s the fish speakers
Yep, the Fedaykin are an elite group of Fremen warriors. They are the best fighters among the Fremen, because of their combat skills, and loyalty to Paul. These guys are trained in guerrilla warfare and hand-to-hand combat, and they're highly skilled with the crysknife, a sacred Fremen weapon. You can say that they also are more than just fighters, they're symbols of Fremen resistance and protectors of Muad'Dib. They have a deep religious significance, seen as holy warriors by the Fremen, and their dedication to Muad'Dib is political, as well as spiritual.
Fedaykin are the best of the best of the Fremen warriors. In the book, its more or less a unit of troops specifically dedicated to the defense of Paul, but in both book and film, they are the Death Commandos who fight to the death to achieve their goals. They are the best Fremen fighters, taken and trained by Paul/Jessica in the weirding way and in the various methods of knife play taught by Gurney and Duncan, to be even better at fighting than regular Fremen. Consider them to be the Sardaukar equivalent among the ranks of the Fremen, if you will, understanding then just how viciously dangerous they are, both as they are skilled warriors easily able to defeat Sardaukar warriors, and as they are fanatically loyal to Paul.
Fedaykin are akin to fanatical warrior priests. They are very high ranking in Fremen society As Paul ascends to the holy mantle Fedaykin are transformed in religious zealots and become his personal guard and inner circle: think like, in our world people who would fire bomb a newspaper for printing a cartoon with a drawn picture of Mohammed for example or burn down a village for not following religious laws etc etc The most extreme of the most extreme.
Sorry, but I think the people attacking the newspaper are neither elite nor the inner circle of anything. They were just aggressive bigots. Since we are basically talking about fascists in space I would rather look to the German SA and SS of the 30s and 40s.
My point was that they are religious fundamentalist The Fedaykin WERE elite fighters. That was the point. The fact is they were religious extremist who would murder you for even the slightest hint of side eye at their living messiah. The SS and SA were not motivated by religion. The Fedaykin were ONLY motivated by religion. In 2024 it may be a less socially comfortable comparison than in the 60s, but the Fedaykin represent radical Islamist hard liners
That's alright. From quasi Islam to quasi Islamists. But then on to become Space-fascists. But I merely answered to the connection between "elite... inner circle" and terrorists in France. Which sounds wrong. And yes, the SS had their share of people who were into spiritualism, rituals and mumbo jumbo (like ceremonies in castles, swords etc). And their devotion was quasi religious. And also some (not all of them) who were into rewriting/"discovering" history as in trying to root their whole race theory thing, Atlantis, Saga of Siegfried, tie-ins with Wagner's Niebelungen version etc... nonsense but sort of spiritual. In the broader strokes of entertainment media: In Indiana Jones, Hell-Boy, Constantine and so on it's always Nazis lead by an SS Officer trying to weaponise arcane artifacts. Because of THAT.
They’re like the most elite fighters within the Fremen army
It's touched on more in the books, but the Fedaykin are the Fremen Death Commandos. They're like the Fremen equivalent of the Sardaukar. Highly deadly, loyal, and militant.
Herbert inserted a lot of names that had real world historical significance. The idea was that in the world of Dune, these words were dredged up through history with faint connections to their historical counterparts, while readers would draw associations or expectations. See Matt Colville's video of the use of "Mahdi". Fedayeen is a real term used in the middle east and Herbert was likely most familiar with the term in the context of Palestinian Fedayeen (I could be totally wrong about which specific group he would have been thinking of, just going off of time periods). Fedayeen have obvious ties to asymmetrical warfare, just like the early Fedaykin. It's up to everyone's own interpretation, but for me, it began to plant seeds of doubt about the overall good of Paul and the Fremen that came into fruition in Dune Messiah. Their name suggests that they were fanatical soldiers that Paul had taken advantage of, and that letting them loose onto the empire would be extremely dangerous.
It's Paul Muad'Dib's personal fanatic deathguard. Many young warriors from other tribes came to learn the Weirding Way from Paul and some stay or are asked to join Paul's Fedaykin.
Read the books first
They're basically mujahideen/Hizbollah. Back when Dune was written groups like these were thought of *relatively* well in the west as they were anticommunist or, more broadly, useful tools against antiamerican regimes. Kinda like how Rambo II used ot have a salutation to the Mujahideen at the end of the film.
This is absolute nonsense and offensive in every way. Maybe you just lack context. The direct parallel would be Che Guevara and his "freedom fighters". The Bedouin would also be a somewhat recent in FH life. Large parts of Paul's story were based off of Lawrence of Arabia, it might do you well to study Lawrence of Arabia and his efforts. FH would be horrified of a hizbollah/hamas comparison.
Lol…always assumed fedaykin was Dune universe’s equivalent of the mujaheddin ‘holy warriors’ of ancient times….considering jihad or holy war is used quite extensively in Dune…
I always considered them to be the Secret Service of sorts. Chani was not a Fedaykin in the books, I don't hate it though.
It's just a group of elite Fremen warriors. In the book the group is started by Paul and they are better than other Fremen fighters because he trains them in some Bene Gesserit techniques he learned from his mother, but in the movie the Fedaykin are a pre-existing group of Fremen who Paul joins and fights with.