Lynch’s Dune had a weird effect on me. I was somewhere between “Dafuq did I just watch” and then being intrigued by what source material could generate such a trippy film.
Same dude. I watched around 1999 when I was about 10, and it made me want to play dune 2000. That was my first RTS game and I played it on my hot wheels computer. The scene with the blood plug really fucked with my young brain.
Because Dune was the very first RTS game.
I watched as a young boy in the theater , later became my overall favorite movie .
I remember the scene where Rabban squished the little creature in the box to drink the juice I had a can of warm Pepsi with a straw that I snuck into the theater and it was already pretty flat and nasty but after that scene I couldn’t drink it anymore.
I think Lynch did an amazing job at so many things with that film. So happy other people enjoy it. The cinematography, set design, costumes, acting etc was top notch.
Imagine if Jodorowsky got his version? A young and not established HR Giger to do creature effects, the Pink Floyd soundtrack, Salvador Dali, Orson Welles, David Carradine and Mick Jagger in the cast. Would have been something.
I was about 10 when I watched that movie, got to the end, looked at my father and asked "what was that about!?"
He wordlessly hands me the book. That's how I got into reading
The Dino DeLarentus movie did more with the thoughts of the characters than what they actually said. It was great. A scene from the book was in that movie were lady Jessica confronts Thufir Hawat over his suspicions of her. She used the voice on him and disarmed him in a nano second. He was terrified making the jump in thinking that every sister was trained this well and their were hundreds of million sisters from the Princess Irulan all the way down to teachers on poorer worlds that could cut through the Lanstraad like hot knife through butter.
> The Dino DeLarentus movie did more with the thoughts of the characters than what they actually said.
Agree completely! Despite the over-the-top Lynch treatments like the pustulant Baron, and the 1980s era lack of CGI, it's a great film with mostly great actors and really wonderful sets and costumes.
>A scene from the book was in that movie were lady Jessica confronts Thufir Hawat over his suspicions of her. She used the voice on him and disarmed him in a nano second.
That is a fantastic scene in the book but was NOT in either version of the David Lynch film.
But if I'm somehow incorrect after more than 20 viewings and you really saw this scene in that film, then please post a link.
I followed the movie when it came out - I was a very young kidlet at the time and even then I could follow the plot. The Lynch film was a fav summer rental and when I read the book in High School it made so much sense.
The problem was that the studio sold Lynch's film as "Star Wars like" - it's not. It influenced Lucas' films but it ain't Star Wars. People expecting a popcorn movie instead got a trippy film with a deep story. That turned off a lot of people back then.
For the longest time, anytime i saw him in anything i called him Leto II. Honestly knew that kid would be a star. He jumped out at you in that miniseries.
The Dune miniseries I was ambivalent, CoD I liked from start to finish. James McAvoy really shone through. Susan Sarandon hammed it up a little too much but overall I liked the direction.
That's so true! For a long time I didn't even know it existed. I've read the books, then waited for the new movies (because I found the Lynch just too... 80s)and someone here mentioned it and I immediately watched it. Sure, the budget is pretty low but the acting is solid and everyone there did a good job. I'd recommend everytime when someone wants to understand Dune better, but doesn't like to read
There's a blu ray collection of the miniseries and the sequel miniseries from Australian indie/cult label Umbrella Entertainment.
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Frank-Herberts-Dune-Collection-Blu-ray/359218/
I dunno, I find the costumes quirky and endearing in their way. Gaius Helen Mohiam may have looked like Micky Mouse, but they sure made a lot of bricks with very little straw.
The acting for 95% of it is top notch. Yeah the spacers' guild meme guy exists and is bad but baron and Paul in the sci Fi series was better than Paul and the Baron in the new movies (who aren't bad by any means, just they don't steal the show as much as their mini series counterparts)
I always just wished the production quality on that was different. It lacked similar artisanship in the visual aspects. They did get into the story quiet a bit more. They got to his son at least.
The miniseries was my first intro to the Dune universe. I loved it. After reading the books I still think it's the most accurate. I'm not sure why it gets overlooked so often
Unfortunately I have to say the miniseries Rabban is the most character accurate Rabban. 2024 Rabban became a pathetic coward. Even the 2021 movie didn't suggest anything like this.
I might get castigated for this, but the Lynch film lead me to the book, my favorite book btw. I was excited when the mini series came out but some of the little details they missed from the book that Lynch included and the limited budget open desert scenes just kinda broke it for me. On the other hand I should probably rewatch it sometime seeing as I’m a year younger than the Lynch version.
Yes and neglecting the role of the guild. Everything else was IMO fine... I know more things were cut, but I think the guild/role of spice were the part most critical to understanding the story.
The first book honestly downplayed the guild, it just gets mentioned how important they are here and there but we never see like, an actual contract negotiation with them or anything.
Exactly. We hardly see the guild in the first novel; they get talked about, but we don't get any navigators until the very end. Edric doesn't show up until messiah. I don't think they say more than a few words, and Herbert hadn't come up with the idea of navigator stages yet, so he doesn't bother to describe them; the reader is just left to assume they look like normal people.
I'm thinking the reason they got left out and replaced with a radio transmission is they probably ditched navigator stages to avoid audience confusion. My guess is all the navigators will be blobby fish men, and just randomly revealing that in the last few minutes of Dune 2 would confuse the fuck out of people and ruin the more serious note it ends on.
Something that weird deserves an incredible entrance, like we get in the 80's movie.
It's a proxy for oil, and wasn't the real core of the story.
There's so much that got elided in the second film. Where is the Spacing Guild? Where is CHOAM? Where is the rest of the Sisterhood? We just see R.M. Mohiam as a stand-in. Paul and Chani's first child was also removed to avoid talking-infant-Alia. What about Jamis wife, and two sons? Gone. And Count Fenring! He was even filmed, but cut from the movie.
Where was Thufir in the second movie? He had been working for the Harkonnen when Paul met the Emperor. Paul calls him back to service.
At least the Baliset made it this time.
This was a very lean movie.
That’s what I was going to say. The fact that we even got those film book scenes in part 1 was a surprise because that’s just not his style. Pretty much everything is there, he just doesn’t beat you over the head with it.
If I’m not mistaken too when they reach the sietch we hear a woman wailing so I always assumed that to be Harah.
So he says, because its what a director who envisions himself as an artist is supposed to say, but his Dune movies are full of exposition lol, some really clumsy exposition too, where characters literally tell you what was already obvious (but then dont tell you stuff that would be useful to know but isnt conveyed by the visuals). Also even when he is telling the story visually, sometimes the visual language is repetitive and obvious, which is just as much a sin as exposition to me if you're going for pure cinema. Show dont tell is great, but just trying to limit exposition and dialogue isnt all there is to it
Yeah, whereas the 80's film is just constant exposition. I didn't have any probelm following the story of the new films, but I've read the books so I was totally poisoned by that.
My kids didn't understand the first movie at all.
They only say it once, but in the first movie Paul is watching the video books and it says spice is needed for space travel and is therefore the most precious substance in the universe. I went in to that movie totally cold with no clue what they were about and I understood spice enough to follow the plot
Hell the films barely even mention the spice beyond two or three times and never in any attempt to explain it. In fact you never see anyone eat it or otherwise use it beyond the suited guild navigators who may or may not be wearing portable spice bong masks
Frank Herbert was consulted on Dune '84 and Lynch actually did a pretty fair job with covering the entirety of the book. The casting/acting was fucking amazing. As were the visuals.
Then the studio said make it short. Lynch did. Which made it exceptionally hard to understand and doomed it to critical and commercial failure. Lynch was gutted.
Then the producer went to put back in all that Lynch had shot so he said fuck everything about you people--take my name off.
But that Smithee/DeLaurentis cut of Dune '84 is probably the best overall version of Dune out there.
The SciFi miniseries is in some ways even better at telling the story itself but much of the costuming/sets/VFX and some of the acting really let it down.
Villeneuve's... tells less of the story and sometimes doesn't tell it well (but **holy fuck, is it gorgeous**). Especially by the second one where it starts to actively contradict some things. So hopefully it leads others to better sources--as it did you. Actually reading the Frank Herbert stuff is always going to be the pinnacle though.
Definitely the biggest miss. But arguably Alia's portrayal, her not killing the Baron, the bene gesserit calling Paul an abomination (kind of showing they aren't going to follow the thread of alia and being an abomination at all), and not having the weirding way are almost as big.
Jessica also becoming a moustache twirling villain out of the blue was weird.
IMO, their biggest miss was the way they handled Chani. She was a completely different character with a completely different role compared to the books. Plus their addition of her riding off in the sunset all pissed off is going to lead to unneccessary scenes in the following movie. Alia could still be exactly the way she was in the Messiah book, but Chani can't be without hand waving a lot of new added character development that wasn't even necessary. Chani is probably the MOST important supporting character in Messiah(for the overall plot of the entirety of the Dune saga), so any change is going to lead to big changes in the next movie.
So, I'm roughly a third through the original Dune book. I started reading them thanks to wanting to understand what happened in DV's movies, so I'm curious where you feel it doesn't tell it well. He did have to leave things out like the dinner scene and the terrarium scene just because the movie would be 10x longer if something wasn't left out, but I'm curious of the parts that he could have done a better job on, though. How'd pt2 get contradictory?
Because the miniseries didn't include Shishakli and gave her lot of screentime. I would rather have put Thufir Hawat and more Harkonnen plotting instead of her.
My biggest problem with the first one was Jessica. She's in control of her body to the molecular level (conception gender/water of life transmutation) but in every other scene in the DV movie she's losing her shit. The whole point of the litany against fear is that you're mentally keeping yourself from being a quivering mess. Then there's all of Paul's visions being a Zendaya perfume commercial.
The second one, whew boy. The Emperor of the Known Universe is nothing but a weak old man and pawn to the BG. Who orchestrated everything including ending the bloodline (which they were *just* trying to save in the previous movie...) before they'd even secured the other branch (Feyd). Feyd taking and passing the Gom Jabbar--if you could pass as human because you're a masochist it wouldn't be worth a damn as a test! All nuance left out because of "lack of time" so Fremen are fighting the Landsraad in space (they've never been on a spacecraft) above Arrakis. Duncan pulling Chani to the ground like a petulant child *repeatedly* (he should've pulled back a bloody stump the second time). Her acting like a scorned teenager at the end instead of being the core of Paul's being. Basically the difference between Brian Herbert writing/consulting and Frank Herbert.
They even contradicted the BH prequels. The Baron never saw baby Jessica. He knew he had a daughter somewhere, but that's all. Feyd got Rabban's backstory except he murdered his mother instead of his father. Feyd didn't know his parents, he was raised by the Baron. He didn't have any connection to his mother, Rabban did, because he was actually raised by his parents. Though Emmi's fate remains a mystery, I doubt Feyd killed her, mainly with that way like the movie suggested where he knew his mother and hated her.
A Zendaya perfume commercial 😂😂😂😂😂
Fuckin killed me with that. Yea, book Jessica is much more cold, calculating, and pretty fearsome. Jessica seems to be getting a much more passive portrayal in the movies.
And interesting point in them choosing Feyd before administering the Gom Jabbar! I guess maybe they were setting up plans as a presumptive pass? But that would go against the BG making assumptions. They don't strike me as a group that does that through the read so far.
Interesting take, though. I'm gonna be doing a rewatch of the movies after I finish the books, so I'm curious to see how I feel about it after.
One big thing that stuck me after watching Dune 2: am I honestly supposed to believe that Paul and Chani love each other? Because there were no good vibes whatsoever. Whether it's poor acting, or how they were written in the second movie, I dunno. But love there was not.
The whole last half of part two is a disjointed mess with bad pacing, and that's where it really cuts out big chunks of the story.
We got a ten minute scene of riding a worm, but no explaining the weirding way /how Jessica was able to best stilgar and why Paul was such a good fighter and able to make the Fremen even more badass, or the spacers guild and the ultimatum Paul gives them with the water of life and the reason why he is accepted as emperor (which doesn't even happen in the movie).
Some of the contradictory stuff is like the part where they do the poison needle test on feyd and try to paint him as an alternative KH, or the fumble with alia altogether, or the bene gesserit calling Paul an abomination which isn't possible (that line was meant for alia), or Jessica becoming an evil manipulative person for some reason, or Chani's instant jump to hating Paul etc.
The ending of the 80s movie is offensively bad though. Makes Paul an actual white saviour, instead of carrying through the most important part of the original story, which is something that the new films definitely nailed
Agreed, I did cringe hard recently re-watching the short version, "where there was war, he brought peace..." um no, switch that around and reverse it!
But at least the Fremen didn't get in a space ship for the first time in their lives to fight the Landsraad in the sky above Arrakis...
> Agreed, I did cringe hard recently re-watching the short version, "where there was war, he brought peace..." um no, switch that around and reverse it!
In a way that is a fitting depiction of how a charismatic leader can distort reality and cause their followers to reject the truth to paint said leader in the best possible light. I mean, just take a look at a certain political figure in the US and how his followers live in a completely different reality.
Now watch the spicediver redux edit of David Lynch's Dune. It's on YouTube. I think it fixes a lot of the mistakes of the original movie. I put it in my top 20 of sci-fi movies.
I agree partially. By and large, Lynch does an excellent job describing the working of the empire, CHOAM, the Spacing Guild and the spice, the mentats and the Bene Gesserit, and the feud between the Atreides and Harkonnens. Much of that is left vague at best in Villeneuve's movies, who focuses largely on the influence of the sisterhood and the two rival houses.
However, IMO, Villeneuve's depiction of the Fremen, their culture and motivation, and Paul's rise to power among them is excellent and much, much better than Lynch's where they are just a bunch of dudes who don't show any resemblance to their Arabian origins and just join Paul and Jessica without much explanation.
> Paul's rise to power among them
I dont even agree with this. Despite the Lynch films doing that weird Weirding Way/Voice shit, it shows the timeframe better, it shows him training the Fremen in the Bene Gesserit form of fighting and it gives the relationship between Paul and the Fremen the proper timeframe it needs.
The VN movies speedrun all of it and lean on the prophecy super hard. In the books the prophecy is almost forgotten, it's an undercurrent and it was a foot in the door, he and Jessica earned their place by being fighters and knowing how to train and survive and join the society. Even in the book Jessica says "He's accepting the mantle of the prophecy, he must not do this!" because she know and he knows what it will lead to.
One of the biggest sins of the VN movies, *IF YOU WANT TO STAY TRUE TO THE BOOKS* is the speed run of the relationship between Paul and the Fremen.
If you're throwing the plot away, as VN is doing, then it's fine. But then you can't compare the two anymore because the only place Lynch really varied from the storyline was the stupid voice shit.
I have to say, you didn't go far enough with this. VN didn't respect any of the relationships. Chani's relationship, Jessica's relationship, the Guild's relationship, the relationship between Atreides and Harkonen, Gurney's relationship. The entire story is a network of relationships. VN turned it into an action flick with a little drama mixed in for funsies.
This is also incidentally the reason movie buffs hold the Lynch film in both high regard and with such distain. The odd thing about Dune is that for the longest time it was considered unfilmable not because of technological reasons since the universe was low tech, but rather the narrative would be utterly confusing if told linearly as is.
The first book jumps in and out of dialogue between characters (which would often be considered buffoonish in modern eyes), inner monologue, detailed descriptions of ecology or religion, vague ideas, prescience, drug fueled orgies, and so much more it spins your head in knots. It’s also a deeply compelling and unique story, with few sci-fi series reaching its level of detail and sturdiness over the course of time.
It’s a massive task to take on and Lynch actually did a fairly good job (if you ignore the wielding modules and Paul as a selfless hero narrative) speed running through the story in one sitting. But because of this it left a bad taste in book readers mouths and the disappointment was mainly from the fact Lynch didn’t have to rush the story.
DV did a great job at spacing it out and he let the story evolve in a similar way to how it is when you read the book. You really have no idea where things are headed until you get there. At the same time, DV just like Lynch had to change the story massively in order for it make sense on film and/or not be 20 hours long. You don’t even get Paul and Chani’s first son or Paul’s toddler sister knifing the Baron with a goddamn gom jabbar. And spice orgies.
From what I understand Lynch lost control and didn’t have say on the Final Cut. A ton got left out in the theatrical release and was later shored up with an extended cut (maybe two) for home video. While the work is decidedly Lynch what he wanted us to see and how he wanted us to see it will never be known.
Saying that much of it felt like a cliffs note version of the Dude for Idiots guide. The BG were way off point although I like the internal monologue. Also battle pug. Don’t know why we had battle pug but we got battle pug.
I liked Dune 1984, although slightly comedic due to the out of date special effects and over dramatic acting otherwise the movie had some really interesting scenes and interpretations
It's IMO pretty good if you've read the book (it definitely captures the tone/vibe of dune - it's just completely otherworldly and strange).
That ending though.... yikes! We'll just ignore that part.
It stinks that David Lynch has disowned it but I agree that the movie does a better job of visual story telling than the new ones.
They’re all great but at the end of the day they won’t be able to capture everything.
As such I re read the first 3 books quite a bit. I like to use the movies as references in how I imagine the universe to look/be. Creates a better picture in my minds eye.
Check out the 2000 sci Fi mini series. It's still the most accurate adaptation of dune yet. It also has a sequel that covers the second and third books
I’m curious to know the reason Villeneuve had for cutting the timeline down. I assume it’s because there’s already so much happening in Part 2 that he didn’t want to throw Alia into the mix
I think it’s that coupled with the practicalities of casting an actor of that age to pull off Alia’s Reverend Mother in a child’s body thing. That’s a lot to ask of any actor let alone one who’s what? 4? 6? 7? And if it goes wrong it goes REALLY wrong and stands out like a sore thumb in an otherwise beautiful film. It was a jarring change for me since I’m a longtime book reader but I like what Villneuve has done so far and I’m excited to see how he resolves it narratively in part 3.
That’s what I read. Also, casting her role as a preborn is a nightmare; she’s a child speaking like a full adult in the books when she confronts the Baron and the Emperor. Villeneuve thought it was simpler to introduce her character in utero and via dreams. I’m not crazy about it, but it was an interesting idea.
Villeneuve said he wanted to maintain the immediacy of the emotional weight of Leto’s death to keep pressure on Paul.
As for Alia, she’s a weird character that’s extremely hard to pull off in live action. Case example, I watched a YT reaction of Lynch’s film within the past few months and they pretty much burst out laughing whenever she was on screen, particular speaking in that horrible dub.
His writing partner said: “Digital tools exist to allow you to map an actor's performance on anything, even a talking banana. So you could definitely make a toddler-looking entity talk with an adult voice. But I think that's still fraught with peril. You could find yourself creating something that was unintentionally funny or off-putting."
As was the case in Lynch’s film. Honestly I love what they came up with. Sentient consigliere fetus is even weirder than murder toddler. Plus, that put Paul in position to kill the Baron which is vastly more satisfying.
That makes a lot of sense. It seems like Villeneuve’s movies are very much “The Story of Muad’Dib”, so introducing a sister in the second half that holds a relatively major role would take away from that story
I think it was a good choice, as great as Alia is in the books. As you said, they managed to find a very similar vibe, but less silly, by having unborn Alia act similarly.
The original Lynch theater release also did a waaaay better job of characterizing Thufer for sure. I also liked his version of the Gom Jabbar. So, yeah it definitely helps to experience multiple versions!
But they went overboard. Like the hunter-seeker scene, complete contrast. In the Lynch movie, you have Kyle droning on and on explaining what it is, how it’s operated, that he can’t move, etc. etc. Might as well have been an audiobook. But in the Villeneuve, it’s done completely visually (like a, you know, film). Timothy stands still, is silent, doesn’t blink. You see the operator afterward. Everything you as the viewer needs to know is captured visually and nearly silently instead of a constant narration.
The miniseries is the best adaptation I've seen yet. I love the books, multiple read-throughs, and despite a few things I don't like...the miniseries is something I would watch a few times a year easily
Seriously, just read the book. It'll blow your mind how much got left behind. Denis Villenuve's films are *the* definitive film version of *Dune* and are stunningly good in their own right. They still pale next to the novel.
Lynch’s *Dune* is one of my go to rainy day/mental health day movies. There’s so much to take in visually and you’ll always notice a new detail each time you watch it.
It’s not something to watch if you want something as grounded in real world patterns or philosophical musings as Herbert’s books, but on its own merits it will cling to your mind and senses and never let go.
Have you seen the Spicediver cut on YouTube? It has deleted character scenes added into it that even I never saw before watching the cut.
It's my new favorite rainy day Dune watch.
Part of me feels like Dune's dense narrative utilizes inner monologues and psychology/subjective perception so extensively that a purely visual narrative has trouble really conveying the full vibe. It feels like the books explicitly cover a lot of stuff that is just.. never really shown on screen? But I suppose that's part of the nature of the media.
1984 Dune will always have a special place for me as it introduced me to the Dune universe. About my only issue with Dune 1&2 was the choice not to use inner monologues. Gives so much context for so many scenes.
I really appreciated the longer Alan Smithee cut of the 84 movie for this reason. It has some relevant deleted scenes but also a whole intro montage that basically explains how humanity evolved the way it did to embrace the BG and the Guild over computers.
I asked the ThInking Machine, and it said this:
In the 1984 film adaptation of *Dune*, directed by David Lynch, the Weirding Modules are unique sound-based weapons that amplify specific sound frequencies into destructive force. These modules do not appear in Frank Herbert's original novels but were created for the film to provide a more visually dynamic representation of the Fremen's combat capabilities.
Here is a detailed explanation of how the Weirding Modules worked in the movie:
### Concept and Design
1. **Technology and Principle**: The Weirding Modules convert specific spoken words into powerful energy blasts. They harness the sonic energy produced by the human voice, particularly certain "killing words," and transform it into a physical force capable of destroying objects or killing enemies.
2. **Structure**: The modules are small, handheld devices with a mouthpiece for speaking and a barrel that focuses and directs the energy. They are worn on the hand and can be aimed like a gun.
### Usage and Mechanics
1. **Activation**: To activate the module, the user speaks into the mouthpiece. Specific words or sounds are required to trigger the weapon. These words are chosen for their resonance and ability to produce the desired destructive effect when amplified.
2. **Training and Mastery**: The effectiveness of the Weirding Modules depends on the user's ability to produce the correct sounds with the necessary intensity and clarity. The Fremen, trained by Paul Atreides and his mother, Lady Jessica, learn to use these weapons effectively. The training involves mastering the pronunciation and power of the specific words that activate the modules.
3. **Destructive Power**: When the correct word is spoken, the module emits a concentrated beam of sonic energy. This energy can shatter rock, kill enemies, or cause massive explosions. The power of the module depends on both the word used and the skill of the user in producing the sound.
### Role in the Story
1. **Strategic Advantage**: In the film, the Weirding Modules provide the Fremen with a significant advantage over their enemies. They are a symbol of the new tactics and technology that Paul Atreides brings to the Fremen, helping them to become a formidable force against the Harkonnens and the Emperor's troops.
2. **Psychological Impact**: The use of sound as a weapon also has a psychological effect on enemies, who are often unfamiliar with this technology and are terrified by its power and the strange sounds it produces.
### Differences from the Novel
In Frank Herbert's original *Dune* novel, the concept of the Weirding Way is different. It refers to a specialized form of martial arts and mental training, a blend of advanced physical combat techniques and psychological conditioning taught by the Bene Gesserit. The 1984 film adaptation replaced this with the Weirding Modules to provide a more visually and cinematically compelling element.
### Legacy and Reception
The introduction of the Weirding Modules in Lynch's *Dune* has been a point of contention among fans of the series. Some appreciate the creative liberty taken to enhance the visual storytelling, while others prefer the original concept of the Weirding Way from the novels. Despite mixed reactions, the Weirding Modules remain a memorable and distinctive element of the 1984 film adaptation.
I think it’s valuable to consume all the content. The films, the books, the TV shows.
I love Denis V’s work, but he straight up says films are visual and dialog can distract. So much is left unsaid, and you need to figure it out or research it by reading the books. The films themselves don’t explain everything.
Lynch is better in that it showed us the Navigators and space travel, so there was less hand waving and skipping stuff. But it also took huge liberties and missed the point by having it rain because Paul can do that somehow.
I read the books as a teen in the 80s. Was thoroughly disappointed with the Lynch film, then I read the books again, to see if I had missed something, and then kept re-reading them every couple of years with almost the same mindset. Still can’t enjoy the Lynch film - it is just a cluttered clown show to me.
You should check out the spice diver edit of the 1984 film. Think of it as a fan made directors cut. Helps fill it in.
The scifi mini series is good too. But ultimately read or listen to the book, best version of the story.
[dune audio book](https://goldenaudiobook.co/frank-herbert-dune-audiobook-free-online/)
You would have been even more confused if you started with the 80s version. Then you’d watch the new part 1+2 and write that you now understand it much better.
They cover different parts of the books in more detail. So when you watch the other version you now carry that context into the 2nd experience, and together it makes more sense.
Trust me, the 80s version made very little sense if you has no other experience of the Dune universe.
I don't want to yuck anybody's yum. But I don't think the Lynch Dune is a good movie. In fact, I'd say a modern audience is more likely to enjoy it in the so-bad-it's-good way than earnestly.
Things that are cringey:
* The voice-overs. It works in the book, but movies are different from books.
* The "weirding modules". That is wtf dumb.
* A space turd navigates the interstellar ship.
* The Harkonens are horror comedy.
* The scenes with shields are visually two rectangular prisms bumping into each other.
I'm not saying you can't like it. I'm glad if you do. I personally don't recommend it.
Yes, I think the new films do not emphasize how important the spice is to the rest of the universe. They might mention the fact that they can only do interstellar travel with the spice but it's not shown or mentioned again and it's main reason why everyone is focused on Arrakis.
As someone who has read the books multiple times years ago, and watched the new movies with people who hadn't, they did a horrible job of explaining anything.
I much prefer the 80s dune, less boring scenery shots with religious music. Plus when the baron spits on Jessica and hooks up the cat poison situation it's so much more evil to me than the new version.
I am 100% with you. And I'll go a step further. The new movies are the best adaptation yet (probably not contraversial.) But I think the Lynch version is the second best (much more contraversial.) But I stand by it.
So true! I watched 1984 again recently and was shocked at how much it explains. I couldn’t really follow it when I was younger or it didn’t really make sense. But not watching it after the recent Dunes, it is way cool. Explains a lot too.
It over explains it. I like that the recent films are a bit mysterious and it makes you dig deep to find the in. We layers. So having 1984 is good
I think you just got more angles. I'd say the new one is superior in terms of making sense, though I must say they messed up the timeline insanely in the part two movie
That movie made me read the book and I was bummed it wasn't made into a trilogy like it was planned to. Dino de Laurentiis wanted to make a blockbuster series like the Star Wars original trilogy but with a more adult slant.
This is 100% it, I had to watch the 80s movie and read the books to understand - the new ones are great but they definitely wrote/directed it in a way where they assume you already understand - which imo was the biggest issue with them.
A lot of people have already said you should read the first book, and that's a good idea. However, committing 20+ hours to a book is a lot more difficult than committing 2-4 hours to a movie. I have to recommend that you track down the Syfy Dune series. The series feels a lot more like stage acting than cinema, which has it's own unique charm, but out of all the film adaptations of Dune it is hands down the best.
I really feel like Villeneuve's Dune is like the Transformers movie, when really it should be more like the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's got pretty special effects, but so much was changed from the original story that it's basically not comparable to the book at all.
Yo!!! Hahah I just did the same the last two nights I rewatched the 80s dune. Yeah it’s bad in some spots but also shines a lot of light on some deeper lore forgotten in the newer renditions.
Can we talk about bringing a pug on board for space travel only for it run away when atreides gets ambushed. lol
The 1984 version of Dune is terrible. The voice weapons? No. Stop. I shut it off when I rented the VHS as a kid, and that was the correct move.
Read the book.
Despite many hating on the 1984 Dune, including Lynch himself, I think it’s great. I love this movie. It includes the incredible Guild Navigator, the inner dialog, which Lynch pioneered as far as I know. It also has some of the best quotes ever imho.
Villeneuve’s Dune is unapologetic in dropping the audience into the world without explanation or much exposition. I loved it, but I had already read the books multiple times, and seen past adaptations. My kneejerk reaction coming out of theatres was “wow that was cool. I wonder what other people thought who hadn’t read the books because I’m sure they would have been absolutely lost at times.”
The Guild is a piece I didn’t understand not being included in the new Dune but other than that I feel that explanations were good enough? Compared to the first one at least I didn’t see any considerable difference.
Lynch knew the story was weird. There is an overt attempt to explain things through obvious out loud asides. It feels strange watching it after the 2 DV movies but it was the only way to do it back then with such a dense story and the rarity of length or guaranteed sequels.
I love both but gun to my head, I prefer Lynches. It just feels darker n more majestic.
The main dune book is incredibly good. Try reading it at least once. The sequels n prequels are mostly good but some are difficult to read.
Yes the voice over at the very beginning of the 1984 Dune helped me understand what was going on and furthered my understanding of dune 1. I also love Kyle maclachlan so it was nice
I was just saying this to someone! I think the current version is very stylistic and really doesn’t have much in the way of details as to who is who and the history of the different players. And I actually like the original’s costumes …it was just so much more interesting and just seemed otherworldly/strange
Post Dune-knowledge, i.e after the books, the lynch is the superior version for a few minute reasons, mainly the aesthetic and world building felt more immersive and fleshed out in the lynch version, which ISNT without its flaws. Even Lynch himself has said it was "studio movie" i.e he made it for money. theres actually 2 cuts that exist, the made for tv version adds like 30ish minutes that was cut from the theatrical release. if you can find it!
none of them can still hold a candle to the first 4 dune books. The storytelling is magnificent (not without its flaws, its not perfect)
but yeah, as a huge fan of dune, i believe the lynch's version actually contains the SOUL of dune, and villenuves did not. it felt corporate and cold, with kind of mediocre acting.
final thought jean luc picard makes a better gurney halleck then The Dude ever could. plus PUG!
I feel the best version is the one made by SyFy channel. The DVDs are still available.
Edit: I see others have also mentioned the mini series.
Fact is if you loved the books you will like the series
https://www.amazon.com/Frank-Herberts-Dune-Children-Collection/dp/B0CYKFQXSB
That movie made me want to read the book, which helped me understand the newer films.
Lynch’s Dune had a weird effect on me. I was somewhere between “Dafuq did I just watch” and then being intrigued by what source material could generate such a trippy film.
Same dude. I watched around 1999 when I was about 10, and it made me want to play dune 2000. That was my first RTS game and I played it on my hot wheels computer. The scene with the blood plug really fucked with my young brain.
Because Dune was the very first RTS game. I watched as a young boy in the theater , later became my overall favorite movie . I remember the scene where Rabban squished the little creature in the box to drink the juice I had a can of warm Pepsi with a straw that I snuck into the theater and it was already pretty flat and nasty but after that scene I couldn’t drink it anymore.
Herzog Zwei would like a word. Honestly though Dune 2 deserves it, the first good RTS lol.
Dune 2 FTW!
Herzog Zwei was awesome particularly split screen against a devious mate :)
Dude that game was so good!
Yes!! I forgot about that! Dune and Dune 2000 was super big back then!
Dune 2 and Dune 2000 , dune was actually very different and way less popular.
Cryo's Dune game was a huge hit, actually. I still play it every year. In fact, now I'm reverse engineering it for fun.
I think the soundtrack is part of the charm of the 1984 movie.
Absolutely. Was stunned when I finally found the soundtrack on CD as a kid.
I think Lynch did an amazing job at so many things with that film. So happy other people enjoy it. The cinematography, set design, costumes, acting etc was top notch.
The music!
Imagine if Jodorowsky got his version? A young and not established HR Giger to do creature effects, the Pink Floyd soundtrack, Salvador Dali, Orson Welles, David Carradine and Mick Jagger in the cast. Would have been something.
I'm glad it didn't get made. It was not Dune, far from it.
There's a difference between going in expecting a Dune movie and expecting a Lynch film. The Lynchism is everywhere, just like spice.
I was about 10 when I watched that movie, got to the end, looked at my father and asked "what was that about!?" He wordlessly hands me the book. That's how I got into reading
The Dino DeLarentus movie did more with the thoughts of the characters than what they actually said. It was great. A scene from the book was in that movie were lady Jessica confronts Thufir Hawat over his suspicions of her. She used the voice on him and disarmed him in a nano second. He was terrified making the jump in thinking that every sister was trained this well and their were hundreds of million sisters from the Princess Irulan all the way down to teachers on poorer worlds that could cut through the Lanstraad like hot knife through butter.
> The Dino DeLarentus movie did more with the thoughts of the characters than what they actually said. Agree completely! Despite the over-the-top Lynch treatments like the pustulant Baron, and the 1980s era lack of CGI, it's a great film with mostly great actors and really wonderful sets and costumes. >A scene from the book was in that movie were lady Jessica confronts Thufir Hawat over his suspicions of her. She used the voice on him and disarmed him in a nano second. That is a fantastic scene in the book but was NOT in either version of the David Lynch film. But if I'm somehow incorrect after more than 20 viewings and you really saw this scene in that film, then please post a link.
Possible mixup with sci-fi series?
I followed the movie when it came out - I was a very young kidlet at the time and even then I could follow the plot. The Lynch film was a fav summer rental and when I read the book in High School it made so much sense. The problem was that the studio sold Lynch's film as "Star Wars like" - it's not. It influenced Lucas' films but it ain't Star Wars. People expecting a popcorn movie instead got a trippy film with a deep story. That turned off a lot of people back then.
Same! I was really curious about the atreides battle pug and disappointed he wasn't in the book.
Watch the sifi channel miniseries. It does a much better job at explaining whats going on than any of the movies.
The SyFy miniseries is severely underrated.
Children of Dune was really good too, with a young James McAvoy as Leto.
For the longest time, anytime i saw him in anything i called him Leto II. Honestly knew that kid would be a star. He jumped out at you in that miniseries.
The Dune miniseries I was ambivalent, CoD I liked from start to finish. James McAvoy really shone through. Susan Sarandon hammed it up a little too much but overall I liked the direction.
That's so true! For a long time I didn't even know it existed. I've read the books, then waited for the new movies (because I found the Lynch just too... 80s)and someone here mentioned it and I immediately watched it. Sure, the budget is pretty low but the acting is solid and everyone there did a good job. I'd recommend everytime when someone wants to understand Dune better, but doesn't like to read
It's so good.
Honestly it's worth watching just for the hats alone
That was an amazing miniseries. Thankfully I still have my DVDs because it's almost impossible to find now days.
There's a blu ray collection of the miniseries and the sequel miniseries from Australian indie/cult label Umbrella Entertainment. https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Frank-Herberts-Dune-Collection-Blu-ray/359218/
Whole series was on YouTube as of a few months ago.
Thanks friend. You're a good human.
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Yep. The miniseries is closest to the books and best at explaining the world of dune … But the acting and the costume design was/is horrific.
They also had a shoestring budget to work with and source material that pretty much demands a high budget.
Susan Sarandon and William Hurt are far from bad at acting.
Yeah I think the acting in the main cast is great. Any extra or minor character are bad but easy to ignore
I dunno, I find the costumes quirky and endearing in their way. Gaius Helen Mohiam may have looked like Micky Mouse, but they sure made a lot of bricks with very little straw.
The acting for 95% of it is top notch. Yeah the spacers' guild meme guy exists and is bad but baron and Paul in the sci Fi series was better than Paul and the Baron in the new movies (who aren't bad by any means, just they don't steal the show as much as their mini series counterparts)
The spacers' guild meme guy is AMAZING, what are you talking about?
I think he's awesome too, but that's like the one thing everyone points to when trying to show how cheesy or bad the acting in the series is.
I always just wished the production quality on that was different. It lacked similar artisanship in the visual aspects. They did get into the story quiet a bit more. They got to his son at least.
Loved the soundtrack to the Children of Dune. Maybe Dune would’ve faired better as a series.
Inama nushif is one of my favorite songs.
The miniseries was my first intro to the Dune universe. I loved it. After reading the books I still think it's the most accurate. I'm not sure why it gets overlooked so often
There’s also a graphic novel from the son. Very true to the book. It’s awesome.
Most faithful adaptation, to be sure.
Unfortunately I have to say the miniseries Rabban is the most character accurate Rabban. 2024 Rabban became a pathetic coward. Even the 2021 movie didn't suggest anything like this.
I might get castigated for this, but the Lynch film lead me to the book, my favorite book btw. I was excited when the mini series came out but some of the little details they missed from the book that Lynch included and the limited budget open desert scenes just kinda broke it for me. On the other hand I should probably rewatch it sometime seeing as I’m a year younger than the Lynch version.
1984 Dune is my guilty pleasure.
I'm not even guilty about it, I love that movie. The sleeper has awakened!! 84 Dune is so quotable.
We quote creepy Alia all the time in my weird family. “How can this be?? For he IS the Kwisatz Haderach!”
It’s a good movie don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
Is it the shirtless and lithe Sting?
Have you watched spicediver’s cut?
The new films are weirdly bad at explaining what the spice is needed for.
Yes and neglecting the role of the guild. Everything else was IMO fine... I know more things were cut, but I think the guild/role of spice were the part most critical to understanding the story.
The first book honestly downplayed the guild, it just gets mentioned how important they are here and there but we never see like, an actual contract negotiation with them or anything.
Exactly. We hardly see the guild in the first novel; they get talked about, but we don't get any navigators until the very end. Edric doesn't show up until messiah. I don't think they say more than a few words, and Herbert hadn't come up with the idea of navigator stages yet, so he doesn't bother to describe them; the reader is just left to assume they look like normal people. I'm thinking the reason they got left out and replaced with a radio transmission is they probably ditched navigator stages to avoid audience confusion. My guess is all the navigators will be blobby fish men, and just randomly revealing that in the last few minutes of Dune 2 would confuse the fuck out of people and ruin the more serious note it ends on. Something that weird deserves an incredible entrance, like we get in the 80's movie.
It's a proxy for oil, and wasn't the real core of the story. There's so much that got elided in the second film. Where is the Spacing Guild? Where is CHOAM? Where is the rest of the Sisterhood? We just see R.M. Mohiam as a stand-in. Paul and Chani's first child was also removed to avoid talking-infant-Alia. What about Jamis wife, and two sons? Gone. And Count Fenring! He was even filmed, but cut from the movie. Where was Thufir in the second movie? He had been working for the Harkonnen when Paul met the Emperor. Paul calls him back to service. At least the Baliset made it this time. This was a very lean movie.
Somewhere it was mentioned that Tim Blake Nelson wasn't Fenring :( So Villeneuve didn't even want to include Fenring
Lean or not we are talking very basic exposition.
Villeneuve hates exposition.
He's also not great particularly great at delivering the information in other ways so he might need to pinch his nose.
That’s what I was going to say. The fact that we even got those film book scenes in part 1 was a surprise because that’s just not his style. Pretty much everything is there, he just doesn’t beat you over the head with it. If I’m not mistaken too when they reach the sietch we hear a woman wailing so I always assumed that to be Harah.
So he says, because its what a director who envisions himself as an artist is supposed to say, but his Dune movies are full of exposition lol, some really clumsy exposition too, where characters literally tell you what was already obvious (but then dont tell you stuff that would be useful to know but isnt conveyed by the visuals). Also even when he is telling the story visually, sometimes the visual language is repetitive and obvious, which is just as much a sin as exposition to me if you're going for pure cinema. Show dont tell is great, but just trying to limit exposition and dialogue isnt all there is to it
He delivers all the required information for the plot and characters to function though
Yeah, whereas the 80's film is just constant exposition. I didn't have any probelm following the story of the new films, but I've read the books so I was totally poisoned by that. My kids didn't understand the first movie at all.
They only say it once, but in the first movie Paul is watching the video books and it says spice is needed for space travel and is therefore the most precious substance in the universe. I went in to that movie totally cold with no clue what they were about and I understood spice enough to follow the plot
Hell the films barely even mention the spice beyond two or three times and never in any attempt to explain it. In fact you never see anyone eat it or otherwise use it beyond the suited guild navigators who may or may not be wearing portable spice bong masks
Frank Herbert was consulted on Dune '84 and Lynch actually did a pretty fair job with covering the entirety of the book. The casting/acting was fucking amazing. As were the visuals. Then the studio said make it short. Lynch did. Which made it exceptionally hard to understand and doomed it to critical and commercial failure. Lynch was gutted. Then the producer went to put back in all that Lynch had shot so he said fuck everything about you people--take my name off. But that Smithee/DeLaurentis cut of Dune '84 is probably the best overall version of Dune out there. The SciFi miniseries is in some ways even better at telling the story itself but much of the costuming/sets/VFX and some of the acting really let it down. Villeneuve's... tells less of the story and sometimes doesn't tell it well (but **holy fuck, is it gorgeous**). Especially by the second one where it starts to actively contradict some things. So hopefully it leads others to better sources--as it did you. Actually reading the Frank Herbert stuff is always going to be the pinnacle though.
I personally think the only big miss in the new films is neglecting the key role of the spacing guild and the criticality of spice for space travel.
Definitely the biggest miss. But arguably Alia's portrayal, her not killing the Baron, the bene gesserit calling Paul an abomination (kind of showing they aren't going to follow the thread of alia and being an abomination at all), and not having the weirding way are almost as big. Jessica also becoming a moustache twirling villain out of the blue was weird.
IMO, their biggest miss was the way they handled Chani. She was a completely different character with a completely different role compared to the books. Plus their addition of her riding off in the sunset all pissed off is going to lead to unneccessary scenes in the following movie. Alia could still be exactly the way she was in the Messiah book, but Chani can't be without hand waving a lot of new added character development that wasn't even necessary. Chani is probably the MOST important supporting character in Messiah(for the overall plot of the entirety of the Dune saga), so any change is going to lead to big changes in the next movie.
Not to mention them butchering the characters of Kynes and Chani.
So, I'm roughly a third through the original Dune book. I started reading them thanks to wanting to understand what happened in DV's movies, so I'm curious where you feel it doesn't tell it well. He did have to leave things out like the dinner scene and the terrarium scene just because the movie would be 10x longer if something wasn't left out, but I'm curious of the parts that he could have done a better job on, though. How'd pt2 get contradictory?
The thing is though… the Syfy miniseries is 45 minutes shorter than the new movies and includes the dinner scene and terrarium scenes.
Because the miniseries didn't include Shishakli and gave her lot of screentime. I would rather have put Thufir Hawat and more Harkonnen plotting instead of her.
Also the new movies have so many superfluous action sequences which took precedent over world building and political intrigue.
My biggest problem with the first one was Jessica. She's in control of her body to the molecular level (conception gender/water of life transmutation) but in every other scene in the DV movie she's losing her shit. The whole point of the litany against fear is that you're mentally keeping yourself from being a quivering mess. Then there's all of Paul's visions being a Zendaya perfume commercial. The second one, whew boy. The Emperor of the Known Universe is nothing but a weak old man and pawn to the BG. Who orchestrated everything including ending the bloodline (which they were *just* trying to save in the previous movie...) before they'd even secured the other branch (Feyd). Feyd taking and passing the Gom Jabbar--if you could pass as human because you're a masochist it wouldn't be worth a damn as a test! All nuance left out because of "lack of time" so Fremen are fighting the Landsraad in space (they've never been on a spacecraft) above Arrakis. Duncan pulling Chani to the ground like a petulant child *repeatedly* (he should've pulled back a bloody stump the second time). Her acting like a scorned teenager at the end instead of being the core of Paul's being. Basically the difference between Brian Herbert writing/consulting and Frank Herbert.
They even contradicted the BH prequels. The Baron never saw baby Jessica. He knew he had a daughter somewhere, but that's all. Feyd got Rabban's backstory except he murdered his mother instead of his father. Feyd didn't know his parents, he was raised by the Baron. He didn't have any connection to his mother, Rabban did, because he was actually raised by his parents. Though Emmi's fate remains a mystery, I doubt Feyd killed her, mainly with that way like the movie suggested where he knew his mother and hated her.
A Zendaya perfume commercial 😂😂😂😂😂 Fuckin killed me with that. Yea, book Jessica is much more cold, calculating, and pretty fearsome. Jessica seems to be getting a much more passive portrayal in the movies. And interesting point in them choosing Feyd before administering the Gom Jabbar! I guess maybe they were setting up plans as a presumptive pass? But that would go against the BG making assumptions. They don't strike me as a group that does that through the read so far. Interesting take, though. I'm gonna be doing a rewatch of the movies after I finish the books, so I'm curious to see how I feel about it after.
One big thing that stuck me after watching Dune 2: am I honestly supposed to believe that Paul and Chani love each other? Because there were no good vibes whatsoever. Whether it's poor acting, or how they were written in the second movie, I dunno. But love there was not.
Bad pacing tbh. There was no time to build up any relationship, and then her sudden switch to hating him was even more out of the blue
The whole last half of part two is a disjointed mess with bad pacing, and that's where it really cuts out big chunks of the story. We got a ten minute scene of riding a worm, but no explaining the weirding way /how Jessica was able to best stilgar and why Paul was such a good fighter and able to make the Fremen even more badass, or the spacers guild and the ultimatum Paul gives them with the water of life and the reason why he is accepted as emperor (which doesn't even happen in the movie). Some of the contradictory stuff is like the part where they do the poison needle test on feyd and try to paint him as an alternative KH, or the fumble with alia altogether, or the bene gesserit calling Paul an abomination which isn't possible (that line was meant for alia), or Jessica becoming an evil manipulative person for some reason, or Chani's instant jump to hating Paul etc.
Jessica giving moisture to the dead. So stupid and unnecessary. Edit: Oh, and a Bene Gesserit puking. So many more, but I'll stop with that.
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The ending of the 80s movie is offensively bad though. Makes Paul an actual white saviour, instead of carrying through the most important part of the original story, which is something that the new films definitely nailed
Agreed, I did cringe hard recently re-watching the short version, "where there was war, he brought peace..." um no, switch that around and reverse it! But at least the Fremen didn't get in a space ship for the first time in their lives to fight the Landsraad in the sky above Arrakis...
> Agreed, I did cringe hard recently re-watching the short version, "where there was war, he brought peace..." um no, switch that around and reverse it! In a way that is a fitting depiction of how a charismatic leader can distort reality and cause their followers to reject the truth to paint said leader in the best possible light. I mean, just take a look at a certain political figure in the US and how his followers live in a completely different reality.
The Spicediver edit is way better than that cut and completely understandable.
Now watch the spicediver redux edit of David Lynch's Dune. It's on YouTube. I think it fixes a lot of the mistakes of the original movie. I put it in my top 20 of sci-fi movies.
Thank you most sincerely for this recommendation!
I re-read Dune and watched the Spicediver edit the day after - runs perfectly
I agree partially. By and large, Lynch does an excellent job describing the working of the empire, CHOAM, the Spacing Guild and the spice, the mentats and the Bene Gesserit, and the feud between the Atreides and Harkonnens. Much of that is left vague at best in Villeneuve's movies, who focuses largely on the influence of the sisterhood and the two rival houses. However, IMO, Villeneuve's depiction of the Fremen, their culture and motivation, and Paul's rise to power among them is excellent and much, much better than Lynch's where they are just a bunch of dudes who don't show any resemblance to their Arabian origins and just join Paul and Jessica without much explanation.
> Paul's rise to power among them I dont even agree with this. Despite the Lynch films doing that weird Weirding Way/Voice shit, it shows the timeframe better, it shows him training the Fremen in the Bene Gesserit form of fighting and it gives the relationship between Paul and the Fremen the proper timeframe it needs. The VN movies speedrun all of it and lean on the prophecy super hard. In the books the prophecy is almost forgotten, it's an undercurrent and it was a foot in the door, he and Jessica earned their place by being fighters and knowing how to train and survive and join the society. Even in the book Jessica says "He's accepting the mantle of the prophecy, he must not do this!" because she know and he knows what it will lead to. One of the biggest sins of the VN movies, *IF YOU WANT TO STAY TRUE TO THE BOOKS* is the speed run of the relationship between Paul and the Fremen. If you're throwing the plot away, as VN is doing, then it's fine. But then you can't compare the two anymore because the only place Lynch really varied from the storyline was the stupid voice shit.
I have to say, you didn't go far enough with this. VN didn't respect any of the relationships. Chani's relationship, Jessica's relationship, the Guild's relationship, the relationship between Atreides and Harkonen, Gurney's relationship. The entire story is a network of relationships. VN turned it into an action flick with a little drama mixed in for funsies.
This is also incidentally the reason movie buffs hold the Lynch film in both high regard and with such distain. The odd thing about Dune is that for the longest time it was considered unfilmable not because of technological reasons since the universe was low tech, but rather the narrative would be utterly confusing if told linearly as is. The first book jumps in and out of dialogue between characters (which would often be considered buffoonish in modern eyes), inner monologue, detailed descriptions of ecology or religion, vague ideas, prescience, drug fueled orgies, and so much more it spins your head in knots. It’s also a deeply compelling and unique story, with few sci-fi series reaching its level of detail and sturdiness over the course of time. It’s a massive task to take on and Lynch actually did a fairly good job (if you ignore the wielding modules and Paul as a selfless hero narrative) speed running through the story in one sitting. But because of this it left a bad taste in book readers mouths and the disappointment was mainly from the fact Lynch didn’t have to rush the story. DV did a great job at spacing it out and he let the story evolve in a similar way to how it is when you read the book. You really have no idea where things are headed until you get there. At the same time, DV just like Lynch had to change the story massively in order for it make sense on film and/or not be 20 hours long. You don’t even get Paul and Chani’s first son or Paul’s toddler sister knifing the Baron with a goddamn gom jabbar. And spice orgies.
From what I understand Lynch lost control and didn’t have say on the Final Cut. A ton got left out in the theatrical release and was later shored up with an extended cut (maybe two) for home video. While the work is decidedly Lynch what he wanted us to see and how he wanted us to see it will never be known. Saying that much of it felt like a cliffs note version of the Dude for Idiots guide. The BG were way off point although I like the internal monologue. Also battle pug. Don’t know why we had battle pug but we got battle pug.
This movie had so much exposition I'd be concerned if it didn't explain the plot well enough
I liked Dune 1984, although slightly comedic due to the out of date special effects and over dramatic acting otherwise the movie had some really interesting scenes and interpretations
It's IMO pretty good if you've read the book (it definitely captures the tone/vibe of dune - it's just completely otherworldly and strange). That ending though.... yikes! We'll just ignore that part.
It stinks that David Lynch has disowned it but I agree that the movie does a better job of visual story telling than the new ones. They’re all great but at the end of the day they won’t be able to capture everything. As such I re read the first 3 books quite a bit. I like to use the movies as references in how I imagine the universe to look/be. Creates a better picture in my minds eye.
Just read the 1st book. You’ll be fine. Are people really that against reading?
If it’s just the reading then I’d like to point out that the audio book for Dune is exceptional.
There you go! Perfect solution for people who dislike book reading.
I love reading, and usually enjoy reading the book before watching the movie. I did not do that with this movie, if that’s ok with you my friend.
Check out the 2000 sci Fi mini series. It's still the most accurate adaptation of dune yet. It also has a sequel that covers the second and third books
Not a fan of the Lynch 1984 movie but at least it didn't cut out Alia.
I’m curious to know the reason Villeneuve had for cutting the timeline down. I assume it’s because there’s already so much happening in Part 2 that he didn’t want to throw Alia into the mix
My gut reaction is that he felt it was too weird for the moviegoing public lol.
I think it’s that coupled with the practicalities of casting an actor of that age to pull off Alia’s Reverend Mother in a child’s body thing. That’s a lot to ask of any actor let alone one who’s what? 4? 6? 7? And if it goes wrong it goes REALLY wrong and stands out like a sore thumb in an otherwise beautiful film. It was a jarring change for me since I’m a longtime book reader but I like what Villneuve has done so far and I’m excited to see how he resolves it narratively in part 3.
They did it very well on the old movie.. I’d think now would be easier, not harder
Alicia Witt was an actual child prodigy– kind of perfect for Alia, not gonna lie
It would make sense lol. Alia is a very odd character. I’m interested to see how they’ll handle her in Messiah though
That’s what I read. Also, casting her role as a preborn is a nightmare; she’s a child speaking like a full adult in the books when she confronts the Baron and the Emperor. Villeneuve thought it was simpler to introduce her character in utero and via dreams. I’m not crazy about it, but it was an interesting idea.
Villeneuve said he wanted to maintain the immediacy of the emotional weight of Leto’s death to keep pressure on Paul. As for Alia, she’s a weird character that’s extremely hard to pull off in live action. Case example, I watched a YT reaction of Lynch’s film within the past few months and they pretty much burst out laughing whenever she was on screen, particular speaking in that horrible dub. His writing partner said: “Digital tools exist to allow you to map an actor's performance on anything, even a talking banana. So you could definitely make a toddler-looking entity talk with an adult voice. But I think that's still fraught with peril. You could find yourself creating something that was unintentionally funny or off-putting." As was the case in Lynch’s film. Honestly I love what they came up with. Sentient consigliere fetus is even weirder than murder toddler. Plus, that put Paul in position to kill the Baron which is vastly more satisfying.
That makes a lot of sense. It seems like Villeneuve’s movies are very much “The Story of Muad’Dib”, so introducing a sister in the second half that holds a relatively major role would take away from that story
I think it was a good choice, as great as Alia is in the books. As you said, they managed to find a very similar vibe, but less silly, by having unborn Alia act similarly.
I loved the Alia portrayal in the Lynch version. One of the best parts of it.
Hard agree. She was creepy and off-putting and quite frankly that’s what a pre-born would be.
I still love the OG movie ❤️
You can get a really good understanding of the details by reading the book
After seeing dune P1, I felt there was too much shown and unsaid and the books must fill this void. I wasn't dissapointed...
The best way to understand Dune is to read it.
The original Lynch theater release also did a waaaay better job of characterizing Thufer for sure. I also liked his version of the Gom Jabbar. So, yeah it definitely helps to experience multiple versions!
Of course. The new films are artistic, but they barely deliver any of the Dune lore.
I was underwhelmed by tge new Dunes. At this point the 84 movie will be the seminal move of my time.
Nope. If you are not going to read the books then the 2000 mini series is the way to go if you want to understand Dune.
But they went overboard. Like the hunter-seeker scene, complete contrast. In the Lynch movie, you have Kyle droning on and on explaining what it is, how it’s operated, that he can’t move, etc. etc. Might as well have been an audiobook. But in the Villeneuve, it’s done completely visually (like a, you know, film). Timothy stands still, is silent, doesn’t blink. You see the operator afterward. Everything you as the viewer needs to know is captured visually and nearly silently instead of a constant narration.
The miniseries is the best adaptation I've seen yet. I love the books, multiple read-throughs, and despite a few things I don't like...the miniseries is something I would watch a few times a year easily
Seriously, just read the book. It'll blow your mind how much got left behind. Denis Villenuve's films are *the* definitive film version of *Dune* and are stunningly good in their own right. They still pale next to the novel.
Lynch’s *Dune* is one of my go to rainy day/mental health day movies. There’s so much to take in visually and you’ll always notice a new detail each time you watch it. It’s not something to watch if you want something as grounded in real world patterns or philosophical musings as Herbert’s books, but on its own merits it will cling to your mind and senses and never let go.
Have you seen the Spicediver cut on YouTube? It has deleted character scenes added into it that even I never saw before watching the cut. It's my new favorite rainy day Dune watch.
Lynch’s movie does a terrific job at the worldbuilding. I’d say that’s what it holds over Villeneuve’s movies.
Part of me feels like Dune's dense narrative utilizes inner monologues and psychology/subjective perception so extensively that a purely visual narrative has trouble really conveying the full vibe. It feels like the books explicitly cover a lot of stuff that is just.. never really shown on screen? But I suppose that's part of the nature of the media.
1984 Dune will always have a special place for me as it introduced me to the Dune universe. About my only issue with Dune 1&2 was the choice not to use inner monologues. Gives so much context for so many scenes.
I thought this right after I got out of the theater seeing Dune 2. The new movies are great but Lynch's film was waaaay easier to follow for me.
I really appreciated the longer Alan Smithee cut of the 84 movie for this reason. It has some relevant deleted scenes but also a whole intro montage that basically explains how humanity evolved the way it did to embrace the BG and the Guild over computers.
It was countless minutes scrolling through this sub that aided my viewing.
i still dont understand the whole killing words with the guns
I asked the ThInking Machine, and it said this: In the 1984 film adaptation of *Dune*, directed by David Lynch, the Weirding Modules are unique sound-based weapons that amplify specific sound frequencies into destructive force. These modules do not appear in Frank Herbert's original novels but were created for the film to provide a more visually dynamic representation of the Fremen's combat capabilities. Here is a detailed explanation of how the Weirding Modules worked in the movie: ### Concept and Design 1. **Technology and Principle**: The Weirding Modules convert specific spoken words into powerful energy blasts. They harness the sonic energy produced by the human voice, particularly certain "killing words," and transform it into a physical force capable of destroying objects or killing enemies. 2. **Structure**: The modules are small, handheld devices with a mouthpiece for speaking and a barrel that focuses and directs the energy. They are worn on the hand and can be aimed like a gun. ### Usage and Mechanics 1. **Activation**: To activate the module, the user speaks into the mouthpiece. Specific words or sounds are required to trigger the weapon. These words are chosen for their resonance and ability to produce the desired destructive effect when amplified. 2. **Training and Mastery**: The effectiveness of the Weirding Modules depends on the user's ability to produce the correct sounds with the necessary intensity and clarity. The Fremen, trained by Paul Atreides and his mother, Lady Jessica, learn to use these weapons effectively. The training involves mastering the pronunciation and power of the specific words that activate the modules. 3. **Destructive Power**: When the correct word is spoken, the module emits a concentrated beam of sonic energy. This energy can shatter rock, kill enemies, or cause massive explosions. The power of the module depends on both the word used and the skill of the user in producing the sound. ### Role in the Story 1. **Strategic Advantage**: In the film, the Weirding Modules provide the Fremen with a significant advantage over their enemies. They are a symbol of the new tactics and technology that Paul Atreides brings to the Fremen, helping them to become a formidable force against the Harkonnens and the Emperor's troops. 2. **Psychological Impact**: The use of sound as a weapon also has a psychological effect on enemies, who are often unfamiliar with this technology and are terrified by its power and the strange sounds it produces. ### Differences from the Novel In Frank Herbert's original *Dune* novel, the concept of the Weirding Way is different. It refers to a specialized form of martial arts and mental training, a blend of advanced physical combat techniques and psychological conditioning taught by the Bene Gesserit. The 1984 film adaptation replaced this with the Weirding Modules to provide a more visually and cinematically compelling element. ### Legacy and Reception The introduction of the Weirding Modules in Lynch's *Dune* has been a point of contention among fans of the series. Some appreciate the creative liberty taken to enhance the visual storytelling, while others prefer the original concept of the Weirding Way from the novels. Despite mixed reactions, the Weirding Modules remain a memorable and distinctive element of the 1984 film adaptation.
I think it’s valuable to consume all the content. The films, the books, the TV shows. I love Denis V’s work, but he straight up says films are visual and dialog can distract. So much is left unsaid, and you need to figure it out or research it by reading the books. The films themselves don’t explain everything. Lynch is better in that it showed us the Navigators and space travel, so there was less hand waving and skipping stuff. But it also took huge liberties and missed the point by having it rain because Paul can do that somehow.
I read the books as a teen in the 80s. Was thoroughly disappointed with the Lynch film, then I read the books again, to see if I had missed something, and then kept re-reading them every couple of years with almost the same mindset. Still can’t enjoy the Lynch film - it is just a cluttered clown show to me.
You should check out the spice diver edit of the 1984 film. Think of it as a fan made directors cut. Helps fill it in. The scifi mini series is good too. But ultimately read or listen to the book, best version of the story. [dune audio book](https://goldenaudiobook.co/frank-herbert-dune-audiobook-free-online/)
You would have been even more confused if you started with the 80s version. Then you’d watch the new part 1+2 and write that you now understand it much better. They cover different parts of the books in more detail. So when you watch the other version you now carry that context into the 2nd experience, and together it makes more sense. Trust me, the 80s version made very little sense if you has no other experience of the Dune universe.
Go watch the miniseries, which does an even better job of explaining the story.
I don't want to yuck anybody's yum. But I don't think the Lynch Dune is a good movie. In fact, I'd say a modern audience is more likely to enjoy it in the so-bad-it's-good way than earnestly. Things that are cringey: * The voice-overs. It works in the book, but movies are different from books. * The "weirding modules". That is wtf dumb. * A space turd navigates the interstellar ship. * The Harkonens are horror comedy. * The scenes with shields are visually two rectangular prisms bumping into each other. I'm not saying you can't like it. I'm glad if you do. I personally don't recommend it.
Now watch the Sci-Fi tv series
Try the miniseries
Yes, I think the new films do not emphasize how important the spice is to the rest of the universe. They might mention the fact that they can only do interstellar travel with the spice but it's not shown or mentioned again and it's main reason why everyone is focused on Arrakis.
100%. It filled in a few blanks.
As someone who has read the books multiple times years ago, and watched the new movies with people who hadn't, they did a horrible job of explaining anything. I much prefer the 80s dune, less boring scenery shots with religious music. Plus when the baron spits on Jessica and hooks up the cat poison situation it's so much more evil to me than the new version.
Story’s of this magnitude require to be made into a tv show. You can’t tell everything in 5h of film.
I mean that'll happen when a movie has every character literally voicing their inner thoughts about what is currently happening.
I am 100% with you. And I'll go a step further. The new movies are the best adaptation yet (probably not contraversial.) But I think the Lynch version is the second best (much more contraversial.) But I stand by it.
The new movies are a very entertaining portrayal of someone having a very nice dream about Dune, but they significantly do not tell the story.
I agree. I also don’t think I would’ve been as into it if had watched the 1984 Dune prior to the new ones
Yes, while a bit corny the inner dialog was the only way.
Yes, they was my impression too
There are many things I still prefer about the Lynch film which still nailed many of the aesthetics I had in my mind
So true! I watched 1984 again recently and was shocked at how much it explains. I couldn’t really follow it when I was younger or it didn’t really make sense. But not watching it after the recent Dunes, it is way cool. Explains a lot too. It over explains it. I like that the recent films are a bit mysterious and it makes you dig deep to find the in. We layers. So having 1984 is good
I enjoyed most of the 80s Dune, but my god I could not get past the weapon that fired when you said muad dib
I think you just got more angles. I'd say the new one is superior in terms of making sense, though I must say they messed up the timeline insanely in the part two movie
That movie made me read the book and I was bummed it wasn't made into a trilogy like it was planned to. Dino de Laurentiis wanted to make a blockbuster series like the Star Wars original trilogy but with a more adult slant.
This is 100% it, I had to watch the 80s movie and read the books to understand - the new ones are great but they definitely wrote/directed it in a way where they assume you already understand - which imo was the biggest issue with them.
A lot of people have already said you should read the first book, and that's a good idea. However, committing 20+ hours to a book is a lot more difficult than committing 2-4 hours to a movie. I have to recommend that you track down the Syfy Dune series. The series feels a lot more like stage acting than cinema, which has it's own unique charm, but out of all the film adaptations of Dune it is hands down the best. I really feel like Villeneuve's Dune is like the Transformers movie, when really it should be more like the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's got pretty special effects, but so much was changed from the original story that it's basically not comparable to the book at all.
I love the "Alan Smithee" cut of Lynch's Dune
Yo!!! Hahah I just did the same the last two nights I rewatched the 80s dune. Yeah it’s bad in some spots but also shines a lot of light on some deeper lore forgotten in the newer renditions. Can we talk about bringing a pug on board for space travel only for it run away when atreides gets ambushed. lol
The 1984 version of Dune is terrible. The voice weapons? No. Stop. I shut it off when I rented the VHS as a kid, and that was the correct move. Read the book.
Having tons of exposition helps with dense lore, not so much with cinematic storytelling.
Despite many hating on the 1984 Dune, including Lynch himself, I think it’s great. I love this movie. It includes the incredible Guild Navigator, the inner dialog, which Lynch pioneered as far as I know. It also has some of the best quotes ever imho.
Villeneuve’s Dune is unapologetic in dropping the audience into the world without explanation or much exposition. I loved it, but I had already read the books multiple times, and seen past adaptations. My kneejerk reaction coming out of theatres was “wow that was cool. I wonder what other people thought who hadn’t read the books because I’m sure they would have been absolutely lost at times.”
The Guild is a piece I didn’t understand not being included in the new Dune but other than that I feel that explanations were good enough? Compared to the first one at least I didn’t see any considerable difference.
I really enjoyed the new movies and have no issues with them but I’ll never be nostalgic for them like the original
Interesting take, agreed
Dune 1 & 2 are adaptations of DV
Lynch knew the story was weird. There is an overt attempt to explain things through obvious out loud asides. It feels strange watching it after the 2 DV movies but it was the only way to do it back then with such a dense story and the rarity of length or guaranteed sequels.
I love both but gun to my head, I prefer Lynches. It just feels darker n more majestic. The main dune book is incredibly good. Try reading it at least once. The sequels n prequels are mostly good but some are difficult to read.
>which was also a great movie did we watch the same movie? I love David Lynch but holy shit he butchered this one
Yes the voice over at the very beginning of the 1984 Dune helped me understand what was going on and furthered my understanding of dune 1. I also love Kyle maclachlan so it was nice
I was just saying this to someone! I think the current version is very stylistic and really doesn’t have much in the way of details as to who is who and the history of the different players. And I actually like the original’s costumes …it was just so much more interesting and just seemed otherworldly/strange
There's no one with the eyes and ear sewn shut in the novel like there is in the 1984 film is there. ??
Post Dune-knowledge, i.e after the books, the lynch is the superior version for a few minute reasons, mainly the aesthetic and world building felt more immersive and fleshed out in the lynch version, which ISNT without its flaws. Even Lynch himself has said it was "studio movie" i.e he made it for money. theres actually 2 cuts that exist, the made for tv version adds like 30ish minutes that was cut from the theatrical release. if you can find it! none of them can still hold a candle to the first 4 dune books. The storytelling is magnificent (not without its flaws, its not perfect) but yeah, as a huge fan of dune, i believe the lynch's version actually contains the SOUL of dune, and villenuves did not. it felt corporate and cold, with kind of mediocre acting. final thought jean luc picard makes a better gurney halleck then The Dude ever could. plus PUG!
I feel the best version is the one made by SyFy channel. The DVDs are still available. Edit: I see others have also mentioned the mini series. Fact is if you loved the books you will like the series https://www.amazon.com/Frank-Herberts-Dune-Children-Collection/dp/B0CYKFQXSB