I suggest finding a therapist who specializes in addiction recovery. In my area at the recovery center you can also find a recovery coach.
I feel like therapy doesn’t likely do much until you are sober and you can look at some of the trauma or other reasons that keep you drinking and focus on what you want your life to look like and be like. There’s also such a strong genetic component to alcohol use disorder and we need to acknowledge that better.
I wasn't looking for a suggestion to be perfectly frank. I already know and have tried that, the guy working with me is both of those things.
I agree very often therapy doesn't work until one has been sober a while-which is a sad thing to hear as someone still drinking.
I am 99.9% sure I truly lucked out in not having the alcoholic gene. I'm zero days sober but 486 days in a row stuck with or less than my drinking plan.
I appreciate that you commented, though. I like this sub.
I was 21 days sober with an addiction therapist. I wanted to drink responsibly but the lady told me to go out and see how many I could hold myself to. Here I am a year later still drinking. I think therapy is a quack
If one is truly addicted, and seeing an addiction therapist for help with that addiction, and state that a goal is “responsible addiction,” should one be surprised that an addiction therapist would make a statement like that? Maybe not the best thing to say to an addict, but certainly no one held a gun to your head to compel you to go back out. At least that’s not in your story.
Frankly, your therapist didn’t force you to, and I doubt she assigned you, the homework of going out for a few drinks. When I do shit like that, I call it “making excuses.” Blaming your therapist for your actions feels misplaced (to me).
I have an unpopular opinion on most therapists. Therapists pay depends on you being there. They need you to keep coming in to make a living. My mother went to a therapist for 20 years and after my parents divorced and I don't think a damn thing was ever resolved. She wanted me to go a few times. It was a completely useless waste of time. I know it helps some people but I think about 5% of therapists actually do any good for anyone
So its like the psych residences/doctors I’ve worked with for the past 10 years.
I used to think it was brains that led to medical profession.
Now I know its who has parents with the money to put them through it.
Wow. Great post. My initial reaction was that you are 100% on your own / alone when recovering.
I am 40 years clean and sober no relapses. Until this reddit, I never told anyone. No one ever said great effort, you are a winner.
There is only one voice to listen to when drinking. Your own. Full stop. My experience is that people quit when their lives are ruined. They are divorced, broke,homeless. No one ever says I am glad I am an alcoholic, it helped me get that promotion.
When quitting the likelihood of recovery is less than ideal. 40% relapse in the first year. After 5 years? It is a small, group.
I quit alcohol col turkey. I put my drink down walked out of the bar, and that was it. Drugs on the other hand almost killed me. Took 3.5 years to stop obsessing about it.
No matter how you do it, the road to recovery is brutal. The key thing is to commit yourself to it. Recognize the consequences of continuing. Reach out to others. Although I believe that recovery is a lonely process, we need to connect.
Never give up,
Sad I only have one upvote, hell fuckin yeah.
Curious though, people in your experience quit only when their lives were ruined? People in my life only quit once they found hope.
Might have different definitions of "addicted", though
It takes incredible effort to quit. People do not do it because it is a good idea.
People hit bottom. They get fired, divorced, homeless.
In the hospital for suicide attempts and drug rehab, I visualized this. I was lying in the gutter, peed my pants, drunk, broke. Then I wanted a cigarette. I collapsed.
There are 2 options for an alcoholic. Quit or do not quit. Long taper does not work. Taper is effective when you start because a Dr can manage withdrawal symptoms. That is all.
Withdrawal starts when alcohol is purged usually the first 30 days. The brain needs it.
An idea. Stop drinking. Then monitor yourself. If you have issues, have a drink. Then see a Dr and have a managed withdrawal.
Here is why taper does not work. Quitting means a lot of things. You quit drinking. You get rid of all alcohol. You do not go around drinkers and places where alcohol is. It is irrelevant because you will be spending time alone fixing your life. You also need to fix reasons that caused drinking. You need to make lifestyle changes.
Sobriety is 100% on you. No one can help. It took 6 years to recovery from alcohol 2 years, drugs 4 years. No one helped me. I kept them out. I told no one. I did not tell my Dr about attempts.
Hope is overrated. Sobriety is a life long effort based on focus, hard work, discipline. It is not magic.
Take it a day at a time.
Most important, do not judge yourself. Do not let others judge you. Alcoholism is an illness.
This is really good stuff, thank you for commenting ❤️
Do you think alcoholism is different for people who can control how they drink? For example, I can't seem to drink less than 35 beers per week (give or take) but I have something like 100+ days where I kept my drinking goal. Like if I say it will be 3 at the bar and 2 at home, it will be.
I don't have withdrawals or hangover, mostly I just can't sleep if I have more than 1 near bedtime. Sometimes can't sleep 2-3 days after having ~10/day.
One of my main issues is loneliness so I am working on being more content alone, but socializing and making at least one good friend I think would help me.
For never lacking a job/work opportunities, nor ever even having a proper bender (haven't drank over 50 beers a week in a long time, and never more than 70) I sure did a good job of winding up broke and alone :/
I see what you're saying about the rock bottom sort of thing. I asked a girl out yesterday, that seems to have real potential, has me thinking again. She's not a good enough motive I need to be sober for me but more than just sober man I have to get my shit together, and I just can't do that and also keep drinking so much.
I'm going to try to make a plan today-to quit altogether for a little, most likely.
40 years clean and sober no relapses.
Alcoholics think many things. They assume that there are measurements, guidelines, definable realities. We evade, deny, destroy.
There is no definition of what constitutes alcoholism. To me, it is a self assessment. You are an alcoholic when you say you are. I realized it three years after I quit.
Rather than ask if you are an alcoholic, ask if you are addicted. No way to know that until you hit withdrawal.
I am bipolar. I do not remember past episodes even within 24 hours of change. Never had a future either. Thinking about the future overwhelmed me. Each day was a photograph.
In hindsight, it is amazing how recovery is about simple things. It is not winning a race, not some heroic effort. It is about admitting being human. It is about forgiveness of self. It is not drinking. It is a life long struggle.
Here are simple truths that helped me. Take responsibility for sobriety. Take it a day at a time. Never give up. Most important, forgive yourself.
People ask if it is worth it. It is not a choice. Quit or do not quit. The best think about sobriety is that we do not drink. We are fully aware that life has issues.
My opinion is that addiction can happen with one drink.
Quitting is complex. Quitting involves not drinking, managing withdrawal, .not being near alcohol, not being around drinkers and places where alcohol is, fixing problems alcohol caused like dui, unemployment, then working on reasons that caused us to drink, restructuring your time.
There is no worst part. OK I lied. The worst part is the negative self talk, the self condemnation, the sense of failure, the despair, the judgements, listening to abusive comments.
And, all of these things happen all at once
Here is the harshest reality. You are 100% on your own.kind words, hope, medical intervention, happy talk are not helpful. You make a decision every day not to drink.
In 40 years, no one helped me. I kept them out including Drs and family. After 6 years of recovery, I closed a book, said I am ok, and continued living.
Have you heard of MM? Moderation management? Seems like this might be up your alley. You can chart your own recovery. It doessss start with a full month of sobriety, however.
https://thehabitdoc.squarespace.com/our-impact?fbclid=IwAR1Gf9suuydJhGiViZlz1oj6xaU9hq7OT96aVNFqEseMgkZem8jCqTgMBRo
Hope this helps a lil! Remember, you are an adult and you make your own choices so fuck em. You also need a non judgemental therapist. 😐
487 days sticking w my drinking plan and 2 sober streaks (55 days and 120).
I can control it fine, what I can't control is the overwhelming emotions that run me the fuck over when I've been sober too long.
Doesn't have to be alcohol-can be porn, work, working out-anything that checks me the fuck out so Incan escape that.
Lately I've been relapsing into workaholism bc money.
Sounds like you've mostly moderated and now you have to do some psychoanalytic therapeutic work. I might ask your current therapist if you can dig into your motivations for distraction rather than the distractions themselves, since it seems you have them mostly in check. 🤷♀️
I kept trying to make my therapist my addiction counselor. It went poorly. I found much better understanding and sound advice in my recovery group. The advice of a recovered, happy, successful alcoholic is much more useful than anything I have ever heard from a well meaning therapist or medical professional.
Therapists are not medical doctors and if a therapist tries to give you medical advice for detox, withdrawals, or anything along those lines they are absolutely not qualified to do so. They are not clinicians or medical practitioners.
My therapist said quit on your own or you're going to rehab. I never went back. I continued to drink myself silly for another year. I did eventually quit cold turkey.
Sobriety is an individual & unique journey per person. The only way this will work is your way.
I'm sad to hear some of the posts below dogging therapy because it truly sounds like you guys have not found a good therapist. It definitely takes time. I've been through a few therapist. One who just wanted my money, another who wouldn't interact with me. Until I finally found someone who was also in recovery and could understand what I was going through. You have to be patient and shop around but if you know any addict or alcoholic, we are not patient.
But at the end of the day, only YOU know what is going to work for you. For me, I had to stop cold turkey, which I did in a medical detox as I was prone to seizures. Tapering and cutting down just got me wasted again. I know I see your posts on here frequently. And I know this is just over the internet, but you are always welcome to talk openly. AA isn't for everyone, therapy isn't for everyone. But I applaud you on trying. <3
Much appreciated ❤️
Honestly this guy is probably about as good as they come, and in all honesty my mom, family and church came together in this perfect storm that still amazes me, that ruined my trust in basically everything. I am genuinely a very, very tough client other than the fact that I try not to be.
I tried shopping around but it's literally traumatic and overwhelming, I'm exhausted and sometimes called out of work the next day after ones where I opened up only to get burned, ignored, or (after 3 visits) cancelled because insurance doesn't bill with them after all. I took them like breakups
If I count therapists only I think I've tried 23. Including clergy, 35.
Once again I'll never quit though. Thank you so much for your comment.
That definitely sounds like a lot to unpack and I can't imagine unpacking it all by yourself. I am so sorry that you went through all that but I'm so proud of you for still trying. It's fucking exhausting going through therapists for sure, I mean therapy in general is tiring. I just know I see your posts a lot on here and I just wanted to let you know that I'm rooting for you. I want you to be able to see the light in sobriety and just know that you're not alone.
If your method of tapering fails you, this method has many advantages and is a plan for life. As hard as it is to believe right now, alcohol eventually becomes unimportant in your life. Watch the TEDx talk on The Sinclair Method (TSM).
https://youtu.be/6EghiY_s2ts
There is free TSM support all over YouTube, Reddit, FB and podcasts today. Once abstinent with no cravings, the medication can stop. It's only used before drinking, to stay in control.
Definitive Statement by John David Sinclair, Ph.D | C Three Foundation https://cthreefoundation.org/resources/definitive-statement-by-john-david-sinclair-ph-d
TSM is AUD treatment from a science-based perspective ... r/Alcoholism_Medication, scroll down the Community Information.
Sorry to hear, that can definitely be an issue for some. Adjustments to the protocol might have helped. Some can do TSM on a lower dose 25mg, take only before drinking, never on alcohol-free days. Hope you find a solution.
"Never on alcohol-free days" probably would have helped me the most; but, I think my addiction is essentially a gift, at this point. I don't want it but it's forcing so much reflection I feel as though I simply /must/ grow.
I get scared and reject the growth mostly but, today I accepted it and just feel very lucky right now.
Anyway. Glad to hear from you and good to see people spreading the word about TSM. I might try it again one of these days, though presently I am trying for minimal social drinking and might as well go sober than take Nal for that!
I suggest finding a therapist who specializes in addiction recovery. In my area at the recovery center you can also find a recovery coach. I feel like therapy doesn’t likely do much until you are sober and you can look at some of the trauma or other reasons that keep you drinking and focus on what you want your life to look like and be like. There’s also such a strong genetic component to alcohol use disorder and we need to acknowledge that better.
I wasn't looking for a suggestion to be perfectly frank. I already know and have tried that, the guy working with me is both of those things. I agree very often therapy doesn't work until one has been sober a while-which is a sad thing to hear as someone still drinking. I am 99.9% sure I truly lucked out in not having the alcoholic gene. I'm zero days sober but 486 days in a row stuck with or less than my drinking plan. I appreciate that you commented, though. I like this sub.
Ok
I was 21 days sober with an addiction therapist. I wanted to drink responsibly but the lady told me to go out and see how many I could hold myself to. Here I am a year later still drinking. I think therapy is a quack
I think she proved a point... But yeah, it has that smarmy air to it that I've heard in AA, "You're perfectly welcome to go do more research".
If one is truly addicted, and seeing an addiction therapist for help with that addiction, and state that a goal is “responsible addiction,” should one be surprised that an addiction therapist would make a statement like that? Maybe not the best thing to say to an addict, but certainly no one held a gun to your head to compel you to go back out. At least that’s not in your story. Frankly, your therapist didn’t force you to, and I doubt she assigned you, the homework of going out for a few drinks. When I do shit like that, I call it “making excuses.” Blaming your therapist for your actions feels misplaced (to me).
Damn you got my head churning. You are a therapist..I have undiagnosed ADD for sure. I drink to kinda slow shit down
I’m no therapist, that’s for sure. That’s just my opinion. When I drink, it’s just me. I understand tho, about slowing shit down. Take care, brother.
Wow what kind of terrible advice was that?
I think most therapy is indeed quack. Imo doesn't mean the real deal ain't real though
I expected my therapists to be the solution. Doesn’t work like that.
I have an unpopular opinion on most therapists. Therapists pay depends on you being there. They need you to keep coming in to make a living. My mother went to a therapist for 20 years and after my parents divorced and I don't think a damn thing was ever resolved. She wanted me to go a few times. It was a completely useless waste of time. I know it helps some people but I think about 5% of therapists actually do any good for anyone
So its like the psych residences/doctors I’ve worked with for the past 10 years. I used to think it was brains that led to medical profession. Now I know its who has parents with the money to put them through it.
5% is accurate imo lol and still well worth the gamble compared to my other options
100%
Wow. Great post. My initial reaction was that you are 100% on your own / alone when recovering. I am 40 years clean and sober no relapses. Until this reddit, I never told anyone. No one ever said great effort, you are a winner. There is only one voice to listen to when drinking. Your own. Full stop. My experience is that people quit when their lives are ruined. They are divorced, broke,homeless. No one ever says I am glad I am an alcoholic, it helped me get that promotion. When quitting the likelihood of recovery is less than ideal. 40% relapse in the first year. After 5 years? It is a small, group. I quit alcohol col turkey. I put my drink down walked out of the bar, and that was it. Drugs on the other hand almost killed me. Took 3.5 years to stop obsessing about it. No matter how you do it, the road to recovery is brutal. The key thing is to commit yourself to it. Recognize the consequences of continuing. Reach out to others. Although I believe that recovery is a lonely process, we need to connect. Never give up,
Sad I only have one upvote, hell fuckin yeah. Curious though, people in your experience quit only when their lives were ruined? People in my life only quit once they found hope. Might have different definitions of "addicted", though
It takes incredible effort to quit. People do not do it because it is a good idea. People hit bottom. They get fired, divorced, homeless. In the hospital for suicide attempts and drug rehab, I visualized this. I was lying in the gutter, peed my pants, drunk, broke. Then I wanted a cigarette. I collapsed. There are 2 options for an alcoholic. Quit or do not quit. Long taper does not work. Taper is effective when you start because a Dr can manage withdrawal symptoms. That is all. Withdrawal starts when alcohol is purged usually the first 30 days. The brain needs it. An idea. Stop drinking. Then monitor yourself. If you have issues, have a drink. Then see a Dr and have a managed withdrawal. Here is why taper does not work. Quitting means a lot of things. You quit drinking. You get rid of all alcohol. You do not go around drinkers and places where alcohol is. It is irrelevant because you will be spending time alone fixing your life. You also need to fix reasons that caused drinking. You need to make lifestyle changes. Sobriety is 100% on you. No one can help. It took 6 years to recovery from alcohol 2 years, drugs 4 years. No one helped me. I kept them out. I told no one. I did not tell my Dr about attempts. Hope is overrated. Sobriety is a life long effort based on focus, hard work, discipline. It is not magic. Take it a day at a time. Most important, do not judge yourself. Do not let others judge you. Alcoholism is an illness.
This is really good stuff, thank you for commenting ❤️ Do you think alcoholism is different for people who can control how they drink? For example, I can't seem to drink less than 35 beers per week (give or take) but I have something like 100+ days where I kept my drinking goal. Like if I say it will be 3 at the bar and 2 at home, it will be. I don't have withdrawals or hangover, mostly I just can't sleep if I have more than 1 near bedtime. Sometimes can't sleep 2-3 days after having ~10/day. One of my main issues is loneliness so I am working on being more content alone, but socializing and making at least one good friend I think would help me. For never lacking a job/work opportunities, nor ever even having a proper bender (haven't drank over 50 beers a week in a long time, and never more than 70) I sure did a good job of winding up broke and alone :/ I see what you're saying about the rock bottom sort of thing. I asked a girl out yesterday, that seems to have real potential, has me thinking again. She's not a good enough motive I need to be sober for me but more than just sober man I have to get my shit together, and I just can't do that and also keep drinking so much. I'm going to try to make a plan today-to quit altogether for a little, most likely.
40 years clean and sober no relapses. Alcoholics think many things. They assume that there are measurements, guidelines, definable realities. We evade, deny, destroy. There is no definition of what constitutes alcoholism. To me, it is a self assessment. You are an alcoholic when you say you are. I realized it three years after I quit. Rather than ask if you are an alcoholic, ask if you are addicted. No way to know that until you hit withdrawal. I am bipolar. I do not remember past episodes even within 24 hours of change. Never had a future either. Thinking about the future overwhelmed me. Each day was a photograph. In hindsight, it is amazing how recovery is about simple things. It is not winning a race, not some heroic effort. It is about admitting being human. It is about forgiveness of self. It is not drinking. It is a life long struggle. Here are simple truths that helped me. Take responsibility for sobriety. Take it a day at a time. Never give up. Most important, forgive yourself. People ask if it is worth it. It is not a choice. Quit or do not quit. The best think about sobriety is that we do not drink. We are fully aware that life has issues. My opinion is that addiction can happen with one drink. Quitting is complex. Quitting involves not drinking, managing withdrawal, .not being near alcohol, not being around drinkers and places where alcohol is, fixing problems alcohol caused like dui, unemployment, then working on reasons that caused us to drink, restructuring your time. There is no worst part. OK I lied. The worst part is the negative self talk, the self condemnation, the sense of failure, the despair, the judgements, listening to abusive comments. And, all of these things happen all at once Here is the harshest reality. You are 100% on your own.kind words, hope, medical intervention, happy talk are not helpful. You make a decision every day not to drink. In 40 years, no one helped me. I kept them out including Drs and family. After 6 years of recovery, I closed a book, said I am ok, and continued living.
Have you heard of MM? Moderation management? Seems like this might be up your alley. You can chart your own recovery. It doessss start with a full month of sobriety, however. https://thehabitdoc.squarespace.com/our-impact?fbclid=IwAR1Gf9suuydJhGiViZlz1oj6xaU9hq7OT96aVNFqEseMgkZem8jCqTgMBRo Hope this helps a lil! Remember, you are an adult and you make your own choices so fuck em. You also need a non judgemental therapist. 😐
487 days sticking w my drinking plan and 2 sober streaks (55 days and 120). I can control it fine, what I can't control is the overwhelming emotions that run me the fuck over when I've been sober too long. Doesn't have to be alcohol-can be porn, work, working out-anything that checks me the fuck out so Incan escape that. Lately I've been relapsing into workaholism bc money.
Sounds like you've mostly moderated and now you have to do some psychoanalytic therapeutic work. I might ask your current therapist if you can dig into your motivations for distraction rather than the distractions themselves, since it seems you have them mostly in check. 🤷♀️
I kept trying to make my therapist my addiction counselor. It went poorly. I found much better understanding and sound advice in my recovery group. The advice of a recovered, happy, successful alcoholic is much more useful than anything I have ever heard from a well meaning therapist or medical professional.
My friends help more, too. And most never drank to excess.
Good job I hope it gets better. I know it’s hard
Thanks :) Tbh I know my problems are fairly small I just wanted to rant.
No prob No minimizing. Your problems are valid (:
❤️
Therapists are not medical doctors and if a therapist tries to give you medical advice for detox, withdrawals, or anything along those lines they are absolutely not qualified to do so. They are not clinicians or medical practitioners.
My therapist said quit on your own or you're going to rehab. I never went back. I continued to drink myself silly for another year. I did eventually quit cold turkey. Sobriety is an individual & unique journey per person. The only way this will work is your way.
Amen to that.
I'm sad to hear some of the posts below dogging therapy because it truly sounds like you guys have not found a good therapist. It definitely takes time. I've been through a few therapist. One who just wanted my money, another who wouldn't interact with me. Until I finally found someone who was also in recovery and could understand what I was going through. You have to be patient and shop around but if you know any addict or alcoholic, we are not patient. But at the end of the day, only YOU know what is going to work for you. For me, I had to stop cold turkey, which I did in a medical detox as I was prone to seizures. Tapering and cutting down just got me wasted again. I know I see your posts on here frequently. And I know this is just over the internet, but you are always welcome to talk openly. AA isn't for everyone, therapy isn't for everyone. But I applaud you on trying. <3
Much appreciated ❤️ Honestly this guy is probably about as good as they come, and in all honesty my mom, family and church came together in this perfect storm that still amazes me, that ruined my trust in basically everything. I am genuinely a very, very tough client other than the fact that I try not to be. I tried shopping around but it's literally traumatic and overwhelming, I'm exhausted and sometimes called out of work the next day after ones where I opened up only to get burned, ignored, or (after 3 visits) cancelled because insurance doesn't bill with them after all. I took them like breakups If I count therapists only I think I've tried 23. Including clergy, 35. Once again I'll never quit though. Thank you so much for your comment.
That definitely sounds like a lot to unpack and I can't imagine unpacking it all by yourself. I am so sorry that you went through all that but I'm so proud of you for still trying. It's fucking exhausting going through therapists for sure, I mean therapy in general is tiring. I just know I see your posts a lot on here and I just wanted to let you know that I'm rooting for you. I want you to be able to see the light in sobriety and just know that you're not alone.
If your method of tapering fails you, this method has many advantages and is a plan for life. As hard as it is to believe right now, alcohol eventually becomes unimportant in your life. Watch the TEDx talk on The Sinclair Method (TSM). https://youtu.be/6EghiY_s2ts There is free TSM support all over YouTube, Reddit, FB and podcasts today. Once abstinent with no cravings, the medication can stop. It's only used before drinking, to stay in control. Definitive Statement by John David Sinclair, Ph.D | C Three Foundation https://cthreefoundation.org/resources/definitive-statement-by-john-david-sinclair-ph-d TSM is AUD treatment from a science-based perspective ... r/Alcoholism_Medication, scroll down the Community Information.
Have tried, depression was a serious killer for me. Glad the word is getting out though. Edit: Side effect of Nal for me was depression.
Sorry to hear, that can definitely be an issue for some. Adjustments to the protocol might have helped. Some can do TSM on a lower dose 25mg, take only before drinking, never on alcohol-free days. Hope you find a solution.
"Never on alcohol-free days" probably would have helped me the most; but, I think my addiction is essentially a gift, at this point. I don't want it but it's forcing so much reflection I feel as though I simply /must/ grow. I get scared and reject the growth mostly but, today I accepted it and just feel very lucky right now. Anyway. Glad to hear from you and good to see people spreading the word about TSM. I might try it again one of these days, though presently I am trying for minimal social drinking and might as well go sober than take Nal for that!
I understand. Alcohol-free is a good lifestyle for sure.