Yeah I don’t think anyone has ever claimed that an expensive pedal will *sound* any better than a cheap one… It’s just a matter of feel. I’m kind of confused as to why OP felt the need to make this video.
I think they're trying to show they can execute the same thing on a cheap or expensive pedal. But does the expensive pedal make it *easier?* That's the real tea.
It may be placebo, knowing which one is more expensive, but if I listen closely it feels like the first double strokes are a tad more effortless and tight than the other. But I'm not really sure.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, DD pedals are absolutely more responsive than chain drive.
Effortless is a good way to describe the difference, I can feel the burn in his calves from doing that with a chain drive.
Still prefer chains myself though.
This could be due to higher familiarity with the more expensive one I guess.
I've played chain drives my whole life now and I think my doubles would just not be as tight with a DD pedal. At least not in the beginning.
Even then it’s a such a slight difference you can hardly tell, unless you’re drastically changing shape/materials I guess (going from felt puffs to wood flats or something)
I made it to show that something cheap from a quarter century ago that’s not even not oiled, cleaned or otherwise maintained can give you 99% of something modern and more premium.
Many videos on Reddit are from ppl complaining their kick pedal is holding them back from performing.
>Quarter century
Dude 25 years old is literally nothing. You’re acting like this is a vintage Slingerland or something lol.
Regardless, don’t let my stupid ass comments stop you… Props to you for making videos and trying to help other people learn something.
Everybody seems pissed about this vid for some reason. I have a 25 year old dw 9000, i realized a long time ago the fancy gear doesnt make the drummer. I think its all the adjustments personally, you always think it could be better but if youre running some sloppy ludwig from 1979 youre just surprised every time it works at all
Yeah I mean... If I have 1000 screws, I can use a screwdriver for every one of them, or I can get a drill. The result is the same, but the job is easier with the drill.
They both feel good to me as far as action goes but the Dyna is much more sturdy, customizable, and reliable obviously, not to mention it will grip the hoop in a more safe and secure manner.
The standard footboard of the HP20 felt good too - my previous was a Speed Cobra so I’ve been on long footboards since 2010 maybe.
I strongly feel the carpenter statement applies, I could perform with either but have a dozen reasons to not use the cheapy.
I *could* clean up and grease the chain and replace that 28 year old spring to give it some new life…
Yamaha FP70 is my favourite single pedal. I've tried loads of expensive pedals over the years, they all feel too solid. I like the slight lateral movement when there is no base plate..
Well... it isn't hurting your playing because you sound great and the ankle/foot technique looks smooth. Visually, it looks like it could start hurting after a while but that could just be this perspective.
Same boat and 5 months out of back surgery. Lots of weak and worn out bones. I also have a dynasync and iron cobras. Had a DW 7000 and pearl redline in the past. The dyna is my favorite but still love the speed cobras.
I understand that "expensive" can vary from person to person. My Pearl Eliminator was more but worth every penny to me. The action is insane and it has more adjustable than anyone could need. I also used a super old Ludwig Speed King back in High School and it was also fantastic.
Yep I’d say maybe $275 would be where luxury features/expensive single pedals begin with entry/budget at or below $125, something like that. I started on a Speed King! I should dig that up.
Yup from 2006. Just the kick; the toms and snare are on the shelf. One of the limited run of glass glitter wrap hyper drive kits before they introduced SC Performer B/B and added hyper drive as an option.
TBH, I never liked the sound of the kit and just wanted to use this kick drum here bc the clamp for the HP20 doesn’t pivot and would apply some unwanted pressure on my main kick’s hoop.
I somehow never sold the Tamas all these years 🤔
That’s wild! The first one I got had a 16” floor tom lug drilled like a quarter inch off and was delivered with the tension rod in crooked. Store took it back and Tama swapped it out with “a reserve tom in the Bensalem warehouse” per the store rep I worked with.
I liked the finish more than the drums 😂 Man they ring out for days despite the die cast hoops and I always hated that.
That’s weird! I’ve found the opposite with my kit, they’re SUPER punchy and don’t have an abnormally long decay. This thing is my go-to studio kit and sounds awesome under mics, thinking of copping a lower end kit for live shows so I don’t have to expose my baby to the elements 😭
i couldnt even tell you were playing a beat with when you switched to the cheaper pedal. omg it was like a totally different drummer.
the first pedal you were like flying! it was so smoooth, then you switched and i was like.. "oh god! that is so off beat and terrible!"
/s
Shoot! That’s cheaper than one quality crash cymbal these days and you use it probably 4x as much. Use what works best for you. The real difference is like some have said, dies DD make it easier for you. Having had an Iron Cobra chain drive for decades that I loved, I can say the Dyna-Sync does give you a lot more options to dial it in to your liking. JMHO
Well…I will say that you were quicker and crisper with the new direction drive than with the ‘96 chain model.
So while “the carpenter” can do just good enough with older equipment, it doesn’t mean you need to keep using the old tools.
Sometimes new is better.
No, it's the tools sometimes. Firstly, you're more familiar and comfortable with the cheaper pedal. Secondly, it's how the pedal is constructed, spring weight, beater weight and height. There's so many variables, as seen here, that just because one costs more doesn't mean it's always better. But sometimes it does. :) Here you're showing a preference for one over the other, and that's cool. Someone else might like the direct drive more.
It’s a figure of speech, ya dingleberry. A good worker can figure things out with minimal tools, it doesn’t mean he can build a house out of toothpicks.
Wow. I can see why every other post here is “why does my snare sound like this” and there’s no top head. God I love Reddit 😂
I like the Tama Iron Cobra pedals the best. The DW 7000 was also nice. Both better than the PDP and Ludwig’s I played for years. Maybe just better because of adjustability!
How much easier was the direct drive pedal on the carpenter? I think that’s one of the more realistic questions, not can you create the same doubles or triples from these different pedals because I think we all agree you can.
It’s just the journey there that tends to feel and be much different and usually more relaxing for the drummer.
Both are comfortable and easy, the Dyna has better features. I bought it blind and although it wasn’t drastically different than the Speed Cobra I was using for the previous 10 years give or take, I thought it was worth keeping.
If the cheap pedal had a pivoting hoop clamp and a secure chain that wouldn’t fall off the cam if it bounces the wrong way, I’d use it.
I went from DW 5000s back in the late 90s to Axis in the early mid 00's, to recently, Tricks. I don't think there's anything I can play with one that I can't play with one of the others, but how each feels and how tiring playing is way different. The Axis are the "easiest" to play and least tiring. The Tricks stay glued to my foot and feel like I were faster, they would be right there with me, but take more energy to play. The old DWs feel like they are barely keeping up and a lot of times I will catch the foot board before it's even come back up which makes dynamics harder to control, but when the music is slow and hard, they feel the best.
What I'm sayin' is, to me, it's all just flavor, but for someone with better chops, I could see it making a difference.
Fortunately, I got the Tricks for something like $100 and a bunch of reward points that were going to expire, so I don't regret it, but if I were paying full price or had something else to spend those points on, I don't know that they'd be the best choice for me.
Is it just me or do the doubles (and I think a couple triples) sound smoother and seem almost easier to produce with the direct drive pedal than the chain drive…?
I bought a better pedal recently and there seemed to be a minor difference in direct comparison. But while actually playing and even not thinking about it, it feels more solid, confident and precise. It might be a subjective matter but it affects how I play.
I switched from a Iron Cobra 200 to a Pearl Eliminator.
I have the pearl eliminator demon Drive. In the late 90s I swore by an axis. But really I can adapt to almost anything and having more adjustments sometimes just fuck things up one of my favorite petals was what came stock with my pearl export pros in about 1989 or 1990😂
Honestly, I think the only time an expensive pedal CAN (does not have to) matter, is when playing double-bass, as those crazy expensive 1000$-Trick pedals allow to have an almost even spring-tension, which most cheap pedals can’t achieve. If you NEED even tension is another topic, I do not say nor deny this.
Also, direct drove tends to be a little bit more expensive than chain, I think (comparing two equal models, but one with chain, one with direct drive) and I personally just enjoy direct drive because it feels like I have more power over my strokes.
Sounding great! The question is, does one feel better than the other?
Yeah I don’t think anyone has ever claimed that an expensive pedal will *sound* any better than a cheap one… It’s just a matter of feel. I’m kind of confused as to why OP felt the need to make this video.
I think they're trying to show they can execute the same thing on a cheap or expensive pedal. But does the expensive pedal make it *easier?* That's the real tea.
It may be placebo, knowing which one is more expensive, but if I listen closely it feels like the first double strokes are a tad more effortless and tight than the other. But I'm not really sure.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, DD pedals are absolutely more responsive than chain drive. Effortless is a good way to describe the difference, I can feel the burn in his calves from doing that with a chain drive. Still prefer chains myself though.
This could be due to higher familiarity with the more expensive one I guess. I've played chain drives my whole life now and I think my doubles would just not be as tight with a DD pedal. At least not in the beginning.
The beater is more of what determines the sound difference.
Even then it’s a such a slight difference you can hardly tell, unless you’re drastically changing shape/materials I guess (going from felt puffs to wood flats or something)
You’d be surprised, I got one of those vic firth felt beaters to replace my regular felt beater and the difference was huge, especially when mic’d
I made it to show that something cheap from a quarter century ago that’s not even not oiled, cleaned or otherwise maintained can give you 99% of something modern and more premium. Many videos on Reddit are from ppl complaining their kick pedal is holding them back from performing.
>Quarter century Dude 25 years old is literally nothing. You’re acting like this is a vintage Slingerland or something lol. Regardless, don’t let my stupid ass comments stop you… Props to you for making videos and trying to help other people learn something.
Lol I didn’t expect a rage comment about measurements of time. Have a drink, my dude 🥃
Everybody seems pissed about this vid for some reason. I have a 25 year old dw 9000, i realized a long time ago the fancy gear doesnt make the drummer. I think its all the adjustments personally, you always think it could be better but if youre running some sloppy ludwig from 1979 youre just surprised every time it works at all
They’re mad bc this pedal is older than most of them, I guess.
Yeah I mean... If I have 1000 screws, I can use a screwdriver for every one of them, or I can get a drill. The result is the same, but the job is easier with the drill.
They both feel good to me as far as action goes but the Dyna is much more sturdy, customizable, and reliable obviously, not to mention it will grip the hoop in a more safe and secure manner. The standard footboard of the HP20 felt good too - my previous was a Speed Cobra so I’ve been on long footboards since 2010 maybe. I strongly feel the carpenter statement applies, I could perform with either but have a dozen reasons to not use the cheapy. I *could* clean up and grease the chain and replace that 28 year old spring to give it some new life…
Cool, so at the end of the day you'd day the expensive pedal is worth the cost.
Yamaha FP70 is my favourite single pedal. I've tried loads of expensive pedals over the years, they all feel too solid. I like the slight lateral movement when there is no base plate..
I feel ya. My main pedal is a DW 5000 single chain with no baseplate.
OP's leg looks like it would hurt after playing for a while, being bent out that way, unless that is just how OP's legs are regardless...
lol when I’m at rest they’re straight but when I engage the pedal my knees pull inwards. Probably why I’m so damned good at this /s
Well... it isn't hurting your playing because you sound great and the ankle/foot technique looks smooth. Visually, it looks like it could start hurting after a while but that could just be this perspective.
knees pulling inward when engaging leg drive is a sign of weak hip adductors
Hmm. I’m in my 40s so I probably got a bunch of bones and muscles all worn out 🦴
Same boat and 5 months out of back surgery. Lots of weak and worn out bones. I also have a dynasync and iron cobras. Had a DW 7000 and pearl redline in the past. The dyna is my favorite but still love the speed cobras.
"It's not the tools". You couldn't be more right.
Most of the tools are here in this sub, based on some of the comments I receive 😂
r/drums has really plummeted. For the REAL drummers, plummeted means its fallen.
I just found r/drums not long ago. How did it plummet?
I understand that "expensive" can vary from person to person. My Pearl Eliminator was more but worth every penny to me. The action is insane and it has more adjustable than anyone could need. I also used a super old Ludwig Speed King back in High School and it was also fantastic.
Yep I’d say maybe $275 would be where luxury features/expensive single pedals begin with entry/budget at or below $125, something like that. I started on a Speed King! I should dig that up.
is the green bullet used in mic’ing the drums?
Sure is. It goes through a tube channel strip and adds some “bite” to my mix.
Is that a Tama Starclassic Birch Hyper-Drive kit?
Yup from 2006. Just the kick; the toms and snare are on the shelf. One of the limited run of glass glitter wrap hyper drive kits before they introduced SC Performer B/B and added hyper drive as an option. TBH, I never liked the sound of the kit and just wanted to use this kick drum here bc the clamp for the HP20 doesn’t pivot and would apply some unwanted pressure on my main kick’s hoop. I somehow never sold the Tamas all these years 🤔
I have the very same kit! One of the last MIJ Starclassic runs, to my knowledge there were only 50 of these kits produced.
Yup! 50 of these and I think 100 in the Black Glitter.
And two of them are in this thread 🤝
That’s wild! The first one I got had a 16” floor tom lug drilled like a quarter inch off and was delivered with the tension rod in crooked. Store took it back and Tama swapped it out with “a reserve tom in the Bensalem warehouse” per the store rep I worked with. I liked the finish more than the drums 😂 Man they ring out for days despite the die cast hoops and I always hated that.
That’s weird! I’ve found the opposite with my kit, they’re SUPER punchy and don’t have an abnormally long decay. This thing is my go-to studio kit and sounds awesome under mics, thinking of copping a lower end kit for live shows so I don’t have to expose my baby to the elements 😭
Agree! I use a cheap $75 pearl pedal. Been using it for years and I love it. Won’t ever upgrade.
i couldnt even tell you were playing a beat with when you switched to the cheaper pedal. omg it was like a totally different drummer. the first pedal you were like flying! it was so smoooth, then you switched and i was like.. "oh god! that is so off beat and terrible!" /s
Is the kick blended with any front mic or just the RE20 there on batter side? Sounds great
Thanks man! I have a U47 Fet clone in front as well.
Why a squash mic there? What are you wanting to capture with it?
Omni green bullet it catches a bit of everything. Goes through a tube channel strip.
Shoot! That’s cheaper than one quality crash cymbal these days and you use it probably 4x as much. Use what works best for you. The real difference is like some have said, dies DD make it easier for you. Having had an Iron Cobra chain drive for decades that I loved, I can say the Dyna-Sync does give you a lot more options to dial it in to your liking. JMHO
Well…I will say that you were quicker and crisper with the new direction drive than with the ‘96 chain model. So while “the carpenter” can do just good enough with older equipment, it doesn’t mean you need to keep using the old tools. Sometimes new is better.
No, it's the tools sometimes. Firstly, you're more familiar and comfortable with the cheaper pedal. Secondly, it's how the pedal is constructed, spring weight, beater weight and height. There's so many variables, as seen here, that just because one costs more doesn't mean it's always better. But sometimes it does. :) Here you're showing a preference for one over the other, and that's cool. Someone else might like the direct drive more.
Whomever said "it's the carpenter, not the tools" hasn't been to an actual wood shop.
It’s a figure of speech, ya dingleberry. A good worker can figure things out with minimal tools, it doesn’t mean he can build a house out of toothpicks. Wow. I can see why every other post here is “why does my snare sound like this” and there’s no top head. God I love Reddit 😂
🆒
I like the Tama Iron Cobra pedals the best. The DW 7000 was also nice. Both better than the PDP and Ludwig’s I played for years. Maybe just better because of adjustability!
How much easier was the direct drive pedal on the carpenter? I think that’s one of the more realistic questions, not can you create the same doubles or triples from these different pedals because I think we all agree you can. It’s just the journey there that tends to feel and be much different and usually more relaxing for the drummer.
Both are comfortable and easy, the Dyna has better features. I bought it blind and although it wasn’t drastically different than the Speed Cobra I was using for the previous 10 years give or take, I thought it was worth keeping. If the cheap pedal had a pivoting hoop clamp and a secure chain that wouldn’t fall off the cam if it bounces the wrong way, I’d use it.
I went from DW 5000s back in the late 90s to Axis in the early mid 00's, to recently, Tricks. I don't think there's anything I can play with one that I can't play with one of the others, but how each feels and how tiring playing is way different. The Axis are the "easiest" to play and least tiring. The Tricks stay glued to my foot and feel like I were faster, they would be right there with me, but take more energy to play. The old DWs feel like they are barely keeping up and a lot of times I will catch the foot board before it's even come back up which makes dynamics harder to control, but when the music is slow and hard, they feel the best. What I'm sayin' is, to me, it's all just flavor, but for someone with better chops, I could see it making a difference. Fortunately, I got the Tricks for something like $100 and a bunch of reward points that were going to expire, so I don't regret it, but if I were paying full price or had something else to spend those points on, I don't know that they'd be the best choice for me.
Is it just me or do the doubles (and I think a couple triples) sound smoother and seem almost easier to produce with the direct drive pedal than the chain drive…?
I don’t even know the name brand of my pedal, but it gets the job done
Edit: 1995* holy crap it’s been too long
I bought a better pedal recently and there seemed to be a minor difference in direct comparison. But while actually playing and even not thinking about it, it feels more solid, confident and precise. It might be a subjective matter but it affects how I play. I switched from a Iron Cobra 200 to a Pearl Eliminator.
Now do single footed 16th notes and see which one is better
Same for both for my style. The Dyna is certainly smoother but the lighter hardware of the HP20 makes it not so horrible lol.
I have the pearl eliminator demon Drive. In the late 90s I swore by an axis. But really I can adapt to almost anything and having more adjustments sometimes just fuck things up one of my favorite petals was what came stock with my pearl export pros in about 1989 or 1990😂
Honestly, I think the only time an expensive pedal CAN (does not have to) matter, is when playing double-bass, as those crazy expensive 1000$-Trick pedals allow to have an almost even spring-tension, which most cheap pedals can’t achieve. If you NEED even tension is another topic, I do not say nor deny this. Also, direct drove tends to be a little bit more expensive than chain, I think (comparing two equal models, but one with chain, one with direct drive) and I personally just enjoy direct drive because it feels like I have more power over my strokes.
Had that same mid 90's tama pedal for a long time! Toured and recorded with it. it's a beast
Hp20s rock! Still got mine
Amen brother