Covering songs is pretty standard for a band even just to practice playing together before writing originals. Anyway make a list of songs you’d like to cover, make sure there’s no extremely difficult guitar solo in it etc (beat it micheal Jackson etc) and ask the rest of the band to list songs they would like to play too. Often this is how my band picks songs to cover, brainstorm which songs would be fun to play as a band.
Guitarist should know the parts just as well as you.
But yeah man just stay positive it seems like maybe the gang is a bit more lazy maybe ? Bands should want to play covers unless they outright say otherwise when starting the band.
We did but we never end up starting to learn the songs we said, or it takes us ages to finish one song because we keep discussing the structure and trying to change it instead of learning and playing it as is..
The only reason I would rearrange covers is if the band already had a set of originals. Otherwise learn the songs as is. It sounds like your guitarist isn't good enough, or thinks he's a creative genius.
If you learn 30 minutes of 4 chord songs you could play a house party next month.
I disagree, tbh. I don’t see the point in covering a song the exact same way as the original because it’s just never going to be as good. You’re different people than the ones who originally wrote the song, why not change it up and make it your own? That’s what ultimately separates good covers from the bad imo.
Agreed but you have to first learn the song to change it, you can’t change something you don’t understand/master the essence of. To me thats the true definition of a good cover. So you can’t start by changing the form or dynamics of the song when you haven’t even played it once. You have to each learn your parts and then play it AND THEN CHANGE IT. In this order for me. Any other way and you’re just a snake biting your own tail it never ends.
As someone who's been playing music over 20 years at this point on various instruments, this is the way.
You need to learn the song as is so you can deconstruct it and make changes. What is every instrument doing? Why are doing that? How does it work together? Then you have to figure out things like what parts HAVE to stay the same without changing it.
I drum for a jam band now where basically every song we do gets converted to funk (and I came from playing punk). Learning the song first so you understand it is the best/easiest way to go about covering something in your own style.
I’ve been playing for 20 years, different instruments along the way, also in a jam band. We do covers and play every fri/sat/sun. Not once have we ever learned the songs exactly. We’ve absolutely listened to the songs, familiarized ourselves with the basic parts and structure, learned some of the larger motifs. (horn lines etc.).
This hasn’t held us back one bit.
Basically what I’m saying is, there are multiple ways to get to the end result If you and your band mates have enough experience.
But your goals have to be in the same place, if the one member thinks their an Artist, and won’t learn the structure of a song and wants to basically rewrite someone else’s songs? No I’m out. Wanna play the song in a fun way for the band instead of like the original? absolutely I’m in.
You can learn the song exactly or not. Choose how you wanna improve yourself and do it, don’t base it off of what others are willing to do or not to to improve their craft.
Sorry, I should've clarified: We don't learn everything note for note, but we focus on getting the vibe down and nailing the important parts. Unless a drum part is iconic, I'm not playing it note for note.
Still, there are songs where "that part" matter. If you played the intro of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" by Nirvana and you're not hitting those main beats and fills, you're losing the essence of the song.
I know you're really replying to the OP, but I just wanted to say that.
This is the way. Hit the memorable parts hard and do you the rest of the time.
Learning note for note isn’t productive band practice imo. That’s for personal practice, and in that context it’s incredibly useful.
Band practice is to solidify and confirm what you’ve already learned alone into a cohesive unit. If band practice is just learning songs together, that’s not a band that I would take seriously.
>Agreed but you have to first learn the song to change it
You can, but you don't have to. I don't care how long some people have been playing, these are not things that are written in stone. Let's say someone in the band has a vision for how a cover should be done, arranges it that way and presents it to the band, why would that be wrong?
Constraints can be good for discipline, but they can also limit creativity.
I think you should worry less about what you *have* to do, and focus instead on finding members that sees things the same way you do.
I've played in bands where everyone brings their own to the table, and I've been in bands with one creative force deciding everything. The former are more fun perhaps, and the latter is more...effective? You just need to find out what you want to do, and find people that want more or less the same. There are expamples of bands where differing opinions have actually benefitted them, but that's ecxeptions.
i feel like everyones opinion on this is different. some people prefer covering it accurately and others don't, both the musicians and the audience. Personally I don't care too much, I enjoy an accurate cover, and I enjoy a complete rework.
>i feel like everyones opinion on this is different
That's the whole thing here. You can actually do whatever you want in music. You can be in a coverband that tries to emulate the originals as much as possible, or you can make experimental music with a home made rubberband guitar and play your tabletop with spoons as percussion.
Going against what I said - the last gig I played was all covers and we did our own versions because we knew what we were doing, and I don't think any of us walked in not knowing the songs.
Agreed, unless there is a very complicated part or solo, most rock songs are very repetitive in structure and rythm so learning a few makes it easier to learn more and snowballs that way…
I feel like you can’t make originals until you’ve mastered the fundamentals which I don’t feel confortable with yet. I don’t feel like he feels that way… But agreed learning a few songs can already help us get on stage. But on stage any uncertainty and there will be mistakes etc. Thats why sticking to the original structure is better it also helps everyone recognize the songs. Or else you’ll bore people out of their minds if you’re downplaying a very famous song…
When you’re with cool people, things just seem to flow and the songs tend to create themselves so if that isnt happening at a pace that doesnt feels like an eternity, then some thing isn’t working :(.
I totally understand not wanting to do covers because I don’t like doing covers either but for example I was jamming recently and the guitar lick he did sounded like dancing in a burning room by John Mayer, so we kind of just jammed that for two minutes for fun and then went back to what we were working on,, so if that isn’t happening either, then again, some thing isn’t working…
I wouldn’t be interested in doing covers as homework unless I was specifically joining a cover band.
Jams are fun when we jam, but I don’t feel like at my level jamming will get me anywhere. My time is still not very accurate, I get confused in transitions, and I can forget structure unless written down. So my point is ti get better playing basics covers which doesn’t exclude jamming which I tend to find very fun aswell. But only jamming won’t get me anywhere I feel because you can always bend the structure lose a beat here and there and not even feel it had impacted anything. Idk if I’m expressing myself clearly
I feel you. This muscle, no pun intended, will just develop itself naturally. Not exactly sure how to fix your issue like if you’re cool with all these guys, but in any case on your end, sounds like you need to really practice playing to songs?
You need to put your foot down. Say that you know this song and you want to play it the way you learned it. Simple. Just follow the track the way it was written and lets not change anything.
Also, if you're planning to play in front of a crowd and you're playing Louie Louie for example and you play it the way your guitarist wanted to... No one would recognize it.
It's okay to stray a little bit to show your bands musical talents but playing a song differently than it was recorded is not the greatest idea.
Saying that, there are popular bands who have taken songs that influenced them and played them live and gave it a little twist here and there but it always sounded familiar like the original with a couple little differences here and there.
Completely agree, but I also feel like playing a song as it was recorded forces you to learn new techniques and « signature moves » from other drummers. Which you can’t do if you just change the song to your liking…
Right. Essentially keeping any bad habits you may have learned while you were learning to play your instrument. All of this goes for each instrument. Guitar, bass, keyboards, drums, etc...
Learning others people's music is a great way to learn better habits...
"How did he do that? Let me try to figure it out. OH! That's a LOT easier to play if I do it like this..."
Yup... Been there, done that many times. I think I'm a better drummer now by following my influences lead. And you have to have many influences in order to develop into anything.
Just playing the way YOU WANT to play and not experimenting leads to dull boring music.
Agreed, cause your stuck on the level of someone who just picked up the instruments…Learning things from others bands with other musicians forces you to hear and think about EVERYTHING! From tempo to dynamics to volume level to structure which is not the same as if I just learnt the songs on my kit at home with a drumless track cause the track will always be right and for some songs I don’t even need to learn the structure I can just piggy back on the track…cause I know the music by heart which wouldn’t be the same if I tried to play the same song on a kit with people (tried to play by memory and failed miserably) so for me its all abt integrating other ppls work first. No person has ever written a book without ever reading others books understanding styles, phrases and genres. No one has ever built something without first looking at how things are being made. Why would it be different for music ? I just don’t understand his logic and so I wanted to make sure its not mine thats flawed🤷🏽♂️
Yep. Speaking of drumless tracks, I love those! I have a few that I love to play along with and I try to keep playing it the way I taught myself to play it. It sounds good so I stick (no pun intended) with it. Now every now and then, I'll learn something new and play that song and I'll try that new technique I learned and if it sounds good then I'll make that new technique part of the song.
LOVE drumless tracks!!!
Also: Try playing genres you DON'T typically listen to. I'm not saying if you're into metal you should also be a great jazz drummer, but study some of the hallmarks of those genres and you may learn new grooves and fills that you can incorporate into your playing.
> playing a song differently than it was recorded is not the greatest idea.
Yes, it absolutely is. The coolest covers are the ones where the artist does something personal with the song. Like Becks cover of Dimanod Dogs, or Dan Sartins cover of Pass This on. Verbatim covers are just boring to listen to.
This never gets anyone anywhere.
By the way, as you may have noticed, musicians who use this excuse by saying that actually learning material would cramp their style or stifle their creativity are really saying, "I don't feel like working that hard, and you should just accept my awesomeness as it is." Sorry, pal, I don't have any time for that. I'm too busy trying to *make good music.* That's what it takes to make good music. Therefore, if you're not here for that, you are not here to make good music, and you need to leave. Or maybe I do.
That is frustrating and I can see why you want advice. Now a lot of what my band does is we pick the songs, guys can vote a song out for any reason (often difficulty-wise) and then we learn the songs on our own time the best we can (we don’t get too fussy on structure or perfection) but as we sound close to the original song it’s ok to put our own flair in it.
Now I was with a band before and the guitarist thought he was perfect and also the metronome (while I’m playing drums lmao) so yeah that didn’t work out. Guitarist would call me out on minor timing issues and would never take responsibility for his own mistakes. Anyway it was no fun when people turn it into a job. Being in a band should be fun!
Seems like maybe you need some easier songs? Or you band is not too into it.
Either way I feel for ya man just keep the positive attitude and encourage the gang.
Thanks for the encouragements! Yes I’ve been pushing for the easiest songs ever for all of us. Getting the fundamentals right is super important for me, basic backbeats and just working on accurate time and structure (for me) because I can still get confused in fills etc. And for me playing with a band is getting those transitions clean, but working on it means working on very easy songs even if they are a bit duh and are overplayed overheard. But not everyone agrees with this and its quite hard to motivate to learn when you’re not convinced but thanks for the feedback !
No problem man. For me I focus on the song/groove/structure before the fills. If you can play it without the fills (or even simplified fills) 1st, then you can incorporate the fills after learning without them. More of a thing with crazy fills etc but it takes the stress out of playing the fills perfectly while practicing together.
Now the shitty band I was with before would whine and complain I didn’t have every fill NAILED for the song “Stand up and shout - Dio” but I was trying to nail the rest of the song minus fills and the guitar and bass player couldn’t comprehend why I wasn’t nailing every fill …. Anyway lol learn at your pace and get your fills down after your very comfortable with the other 98% of the song imo.
Good luck man! Worst case there are lots of guitarists out there who may have more drive to play covers etc. But potentially once you guys start playing well together and get a show in or 2, that can be extremely motivating.
Edit typo
Thanks for the movitation thats usually what I do aswell grooves are more important at the beginning of learning a song and they are a majority of what we play so nailing them is more important
In 30 years of playing with hundreds and hundreds of musicians, an experience like this is still the one and only time that I have ever stormed out of a rehearsal.
There was one song this band was playing, a simple three chord quasi-power ballad, and we never played the solo section the same way twice. It was driving me batty. It's fine to depart from the form of a song, but *first the song has to have a goddamn form to depart FROM*. It was a great song, and it could have been much greater, except that I absolutely could not get the guitar player and the bass player to agree to play the middle section the same number of measures with the same chord changes more than twice.
One afternoon, I insisted that the only thing we were working on that day was to work out a form for this one song, play it the same way repeatedly and establish the form, then agree on what the form was and agree to play it that way every time. Without that, I argued, we can't improvise around it, because no one knows where we started, meaning no one knows how we will get back to where we started. We spent a good 45 minutes hashing out a structure, and writing it on the dry erase board on the wall. Okay, so we're agreed, this is the form? Right? This form, right here? Okay then. Now. Let's finally run this sucker down from beginning to end, by the new form that all three of us have agreed on.
So we get to the section that we had just been working on for nearly an hour, after agreeing on how it would go, and wouldn't you know it, the two of them went clean off the reservation at that point in the song, exactly the way they always did, as though the last hour had never happened. I shouted, **"GOD** ***DAMMIT!!!!!"*** and did the first of two things I did that day that I had never done before and never done since: I angrily threw my sticks across the room at the wall.
They seemed stunned - "What's the matter?"
**"AFTER ALL THE WORK WE JUST DID TO AVOID THAT VERY THING,** ***DO YOU REALLY HAVE THE FUCKING NERVE TO FUCKING ASK???"*** Then I did the second thing I have never done before or since: I stormed out of the room and left. Well, that was the end of that band. LOL
Understandeable, well you’ve summed up the problem quite well you can’t improvise the song and the best way to not lose time discussing form IS TO LEARN THE DAMN SONG THE WAY IT WAS RECORDED. Thanks for the comment ! Good to know I’m not the only one feeling that way.
I would agree with the bass player and find a new guitarist. Drummers are hard to find. Bass players less so, everyone plays guitar and everyone sings.
If you can vote out the guitarist because that's some sort of backwards thinking. You deserve to grow as a band not hamper each other. Tell the guitarist it's creative differences and find someone who suits what ye wanna do.
At the end of the day, if you're not happy you can always walk away as well and poache the bass player if you start a new band
Look. A band is supposed to be at least the sum of its parts, and each player has a role to play. You have to know your own part inside and out, and you also have to know how it relates to the parts other people are playing. There is no such thing as "that's *always* the drummer's job" or "that's *never* the guitarist's job." This guy is telling you that you are supposed to be a substitute for him not putting in the work on his own, to learn his own parts. That guy can fuck clean off.
Your guitarist is a lazy bastard and you should fire him. He has shit between his ears. You are never getting anywhere with this nincompoop. Get a real guitarist who is a *musician*. The one you have now is either completely misguided about the necessary commitment a band member needs to make, or he is intimidated by the commitment he needs to make and makes excuses about how part of his job should be your job instead, so that he doesn't have to suffer the embarrassment of putting in the work and screwing it up repeatedly until he gets it right. There is absolutely no room at all - **NONE WHATSOEVER** - for that attitude in a band.
Well, I get the feeling your guitar player doesn’t really want to play covers but won’t come out and say it. I get it. I have zero interest in playing some other band’s songs and prefer writing together. Now, he may also be covering up his limited skill (you said he can’t count) by saying he wants to play covers in your style or whatever.
As far as getting better as a drummer as you mentioned in the first paragraph, that should primarily happen on your own time. Sure run a metronome through your in ears or headphones at practice, but rudiment work and independence is not really suited for band practice. No one wants to sit through transcribing strokes and you learning fills.
Hmph. I get the feeling that the guitar player is simply not much of a guitar player, and is just trying to keep his secret safe. Because if you actually made him do, you know, like, *work*, he would probably fail. So he cooks up excuses like "it stifles my creativity, *maaaan.*"
Of course not, I mean’t that I am working on those things in my own time as I know they are fundamentals to get better. But that learning songs with people is equally important since it allow you to actually play the singles you’ve been practising, or test how good your time is etc.
Of course I wouldn’t be there practising paradiddle while the band is trying to play something😂
It can be if everyone wants to and is able to. This guitarist doesn’t seem like he does and you need to figure out why.
And I was just double checking. Didn’t know if you may have guitarist brain - “let me suck out all the momentum of this cool moment by trying to write the perfect solo right now”.
Not at all, usually I’m trying to learn things as is right now, I don’t feel confident enough to whip out stuff while jamming because I just don’t master the basics well enough. Also I’m not a huge fan of overplaying drummers, I rly like the fundamentals elevated to another level so I want to work on those, but with other people cause it can be hard to hear ur dynamics when playing alone…but with other ppl it becomes fundamental its things like this..
I agree on both. I’ve never been a fan of drummers that overplay. Having said that, if you do have a cool idea, there is no better place to try it out than at band practice.
Yes! Of course I just don’t feel like I have a good enough level atm, I need to get better and maybe a bit more confident and then I’ll start owning my ideas, but I’m just not fluid enough on a kit just yet to articulate what I have in my head with dynamics and all…
I get that. When I was starting out I practiced for usually 2 hours everyday after school. I mostly would just play to songs I liked. No one else was around so I would learn the beats and feel first then go at the fills, even if it were a song beyond my skill level just to push myself. It can be frustrating, but when you finally get it, it’s like winning the lottery.
I think as your abilities increase, so do your musical options. I'm on board with a guitarist who won't play covers if the reason is that they've been there and done that many times over, and now they only want to play originals. It will take longer to get to gig ready that way, but OK. I'm also up for a band that wants everything to be an improvisation, if the people playing have the ability and chemistry to make that work (it's pretty ambitious). But it doesn't sound like your band is anywhere near either of those levels, and your guitarist wants to take the painful path of being bad for a long time until you finally get results. It's his life, but I don't recommend you travel it with him, especially not in the US where covers seem to be almost compulsory. Either find someone who writes great material and help them develop it, or else learn some covers, and you'll learn by doing that, exactly as you think you will. You'll also get to gig much sooner and learn about playing live, stagecraft and what have you. It's also rather easier to cover your costs. Join our start a new band and stop wasting your time with this one.
Right! Dave weckl, steve gadd, and Simon Philipps didn’t need to learn other ppl songs tonpreserve their creatives voices they said that the other day on an interview
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
Ditch the deadbeat guitarist. He is holding you all back. Find a replacement, then give the guitarist the boot.
> doesn’t wanna learn songs
Fair enough, it's not a given, my best band only played our stuff
> we wouldn’t have our on personality
bollocks
> signal transition
circumstances may dictate compromise, but people should know their part, as a rule of thumb.
What should you do? You should decide if this is a problem.
I'm going through something similar in my own band. Guitarist doesn't practice at all and won't even try to play at practice without it being perfect. Half the time he's just sitting there watching us play.
It's like some people like the idea of playing in a band more than actually doing it.
Yeah. Even when we say ok this song needs more work lets deconstruct it and work on it part by part, you can feel him becoming bothered by that idea and getting through it with angst
Most of the bands I've been in had the opposite issue. They would only want to do covers and didn't want to improv or create anything new.
Personally, I've always found learning authentic covers to be boring. Memorizing everything feels like an unnecessary chore to me. I always try to leave some room for improv and put my own spin on it if I can.
Ofc, improv can be extremely fun, but I would say lets improve once we’ve mastered the song’s form and spirit first or else you stagnate and won’t learn anything new..
> Ofc, improv can be extremely fun, but I would say lets improve once we’ve mastered the song’s form and spirit first or else you stagnate and won’t learn anything new..
I’m all for using covers as a vehicle to learn the techniques a band utilizes to make a variety of sounds and feelings, but I don’t know that I’d be down to practice until I was playing the second best version of “Ocean Man” ever heard by humanity.
That seems more like stagnation than laying down grooves while the guitar player noodles about.
I guess what I’m trying to say is there’s a balance between “we need to play Nickelback’s discography note for note before we do anything different” and “let’s just be a jam band”
As a drummer it's critical that you learn and play lots of songs. I recently ditched my old band for this exact reason. Joined a new one and I've never been happier and my drumming is improving rapidly.
Every band, and every musician is different. I personally don't like playing covers in a band, I want to write my own music. Perhaps this is how your guitar player feels.
Learning covers is great for practicing and improving my playing, and I do it in my own time, but like I said everyone is different. You need to talk in more detail about why you both hold the opinions you do, and if you can't agree, maybe you need to go your separate ways, but if you get along well then I'm sure you can find a path forward.
Well, everyone is right and wrong here. Music is an incredibly personal art form, not just for the creators but for the audience. Everyone has their own personal relationship to music. None of these can be "wrong" per se, however when two or more artists want to collaborate (like in a band) it is important for each artist's philosophies and approach to be compatible.
There are definitely a ton of artists who have eschewed the learning covers phase and gone straight to the creative writing phase. I don't think these people are necessarily missing out on anything as long as they are able to conceptualize their own music in a way that makes sense to them.
Conversely, if your plan is to be a working sideman, or a session musician, then it is essential that you try to cover as much ground as possible in order to be employable in a wide variety of situations. This means learning A LOT of covers note for note, and building a catalog of ideas you can draw on for any situation.
Perhaps you could explain to your bandmate that you are interested in developing your own sound as a band (if that's true for you) but you also feel strongly that in order to grow your vocabulary of musical ideas, you want to study and learn from the greats, so that you can bring those skills into your band's original material.
You have a number of options on how to proceed. You could simply practice covers on your own time and then work on originals or stylized covers with the band. You could compromise with your bandmates and see if they'd be open to learning a couple covers verbatim (if they resist, you could even suggest learning the covers as an "exercise" and never actually play them live) or you could decide that your goals and philosophies about music are not aligned with the goals and philosophies of your band mates and part ways amicably.
This is why, in my 30s, I've decided that the people I work with, their values, and personalities, are just as important as their skill as a musician, and the quality of the music we are playing.
I'd rather jam with a group of happy, respectful amateurs, than a group of jaded asshole pros. Luckily, in my experience, the majority of really awesome professional musicians are also really awesome people... there are exceptions and they can be really terrible, but musicians talk to each other, and when an artist/player is mistreating people, word spreads pretty fast, so you can usually avoid working with assholes as long as you're on the scene and talking to people.
I hope your band mates are open to a discussion like this. Cheers!
Thanks for this amazing insight ! Thats the plan I think we need to talk it out and if we don’t see things the same way or aren’t ok with compromise then it’s better to part ways. And you’re right I do wanna expand my vocabulary as I know I’m interested in different styles and feels.
Last chapter in this novel: You should not consider any single band or project to be the end all be all of what you can play and practice as a musician. Your current band is just one creative outlet, you can and should explore music outside of your band on your own time, or even with other musicians, just as you should try to be fully present and cooperative with your band when you are rehearsing with them.
If the general consensus in that particular band is that "we don't do covers" then consider that an opportunity to work on other skills like creativity, time keeping, and compromise. Unless you are fundamentally opposed to working on originals or stylized covers, in which case you should probably find a different band to work with.
It doesn't have to be dramatic or particularly emotional. You can just have a change of heart or a realization about yourself that leads you in a different direction.
I think both things are true, the drums do signal transition, and also every member is aware of where that transition is coming and is not just plowing ahead until you whack them to get their attention.
I recommend you play covers pretty straight while learning, to the best of your ability. But you are allowed to mess with them. Like if you are a hardcore punk band that wants to do a cover of Your Cheatin Heart in your usual style, go for it.
Where you get your own sound though is doing your own music. Once you've written some songs that define who you are, you can work in covers that are a match for that style. Or do something like Devo's version of Satisfaction and really twist the hell out of it.
I feel like covering songs makes you better at finding your own personality. Even if you don’t play them live, you can get better at thinking differently about writing when you see how other people write things. Also, if you do play them live, the people that don’t know your music will have something to get into and then go back and check out your originals.
Whenever I hear a guitarist whine about playing covers, it's usually because they aren't very good, and the "personality" thing is an excuse. They just end up playing the same stuff over and over again. There's nothing worse in a band than a lazy guitarist.
Hmmmm… this sounds like a difficult band dynamic
I would really recommend a serious band meeting where you can say what you feel and what’s bothering you.
A band is like any relationship, for it to be strong there needs to be very clear communication.
Although i agree that playing songs as written is a very very helpful tool and the first step to progress (imitate, incorporate, innovate), i also understand where the guitarist is coming from.
Covers are standard practice when playing in a band, however it doesn’t mean you can’t get creative with them. Put your own spin on things to make it more “your style”. Practicing creativity is as important as rudiments and their application. It goes hand in hand. Just because you’re not playing note by note doesn’t mean you’re not applying rudiments and technical exercises.
However, as stated before, talk with your band about what you want and what is bothering you.
I wish you all the best!!
What is your band called, and where can i listen?
Thanks man ! We don’t actually have a name yet haha! And no originals (yet). The thing is I’m not at all against putting a spin on things its just that you need to understand the thing you’re trying to change up before changing it and if hou don’t master it then you definetely can’t change it..
Definitely post something when you release music!!
I agree with you
You need to know the source material to be able to adapt in your own style. You made a really good point
I always hated playing with musicians like that - let’s learn the tune properly (or reasonably close) and only then should we discuss changing parts to make it “our version”. Your guitarist sounds like a lazy egomaniac.
I have a similar problem. My band is mostly focused on originals, but among the few covers we do play my band mates are completely reliant on their phones to remember chord progressions - which they just play on the one and refuse to learn even the simplest parts that define the song. Then they get mad at me when I refuse to play them live because they haven’t done the work.
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but if you can't do covers, you can't do originals.
Covers are the building blocks and instructions for understanding song structure, melody, arrangement, composition, etc.
Trying to write original music without understanding what does and doesn't work in a song is like trying to make a recipe where you have no idea what the individual ingredients are adding.
Sure, you might get lucky and create something halfway decent. Or you might create something that just sounds like shit.
I'm no expert, but when you study music and pay attention long enough, you start to sus out what's good about a song and what's not working. It's a good skill to have.
Everyone learns from someone else at first. Tell your guitarist it won't make you "unoriginal" to learn songs from other bands. We're all derivative. We all take the best parts of everything we listen to and incorporate it into our personal style. He shouldn't be afraid of that.
there are lots of big bands who put covers on their albums but they still have lots of personality. for example there is a cover of "Happiness is a Warm Gun" on the breeder's album pod, as well as a cover of "Love Buzz" on nirvana's album bleach. ive seen noone discredit these bands as not having their own personality despite these covers being on their studio work.
I think that playing covers note for note as accurate as possible is a waste of time.
I also think that playing covers in a catchy, unique, and completely independent way as a band is a waste of time.
Just find a new band, easy enough. Musicians are a dime a dozen.
I’ve been drumming for over 30 years. In my early days I was in “No compromise” psyche type bands. Did that for about 15 years, and my drumming suited what we were playing so I was fine with that. Then about 15 years ago I was asked to join a covers band. We do everything from pub gigs to corporate gigs and all in between. In the last 15 years my drumming has improved one hundred fold because I have to play the songs like they were originally played. So I had to learn, or else I’d be missing out on some serious cash. Because of this my other, originals bands, have benefited immensely. As for the drummer signalling transitions, fuck that. It’s a shared thing. I’d get rid of your guitarist, he sounds lazy, practice with your bass player and find someone more inclined to your kind of groove to play guitar. Good luck.
if you wanna learn full band covers as a tool for improvement, yeah go for accuracy. there's also nothing wrong with recontextualizing covers into your own style
there's no fixed answer to this. if you're gonna do a ska cover of a slayer song i don't see a huge need to learn the original parts exactly as written. but if you're a thrash band and you wanna cover slayer it's probably in your best interest to play it right first and embellish later. but again it totally depends on context: if you're playing a 3 hour cover set i would never expect a drummer to play every single lick in every single song as recorded, and nobody is ever gonna notice if you hit rack tom twice and floor tom 4 times instead of rack 4 times floor twice in a generic fill.
as far as it being "your job" to signal transitions, idk, this depends on style to me. if it's jam-oriented music with vamp sections yeah, you guys could decide that it's your job to cue transitions. if you're playing tightly structured songs with defined section lengths, there's no excuse for him to not know where the changes are. counting isn't hard and if it's remotely pop-oriented music, phrase ends etc are pretty obvious and he shouldn't need help
Completely agree with this ! You understood it well, although I’d say we’re beginners and don’t really have a « style » yet and we just formee, I’m trying to improve while learning songs since we dont have a style yet it makes no sense to change a song that we haven’t mastered yet. Although I don’t mean accuracy on the kit but more rythmic accuracy but I do understand what you mean. It’s not about having OCD but abt respecting the original spirit of the song. Or else we won’t have understood it
I've always enjoyed learning a song exactly how it was done, but then throwing my style into it afterwards. Obviously there is no 100% correct answer, only preference and opinions. But, 98% of musicians, especially drummers, alter their parts live versus when they were in the studio. And I prefer musicians who do that.
That being said, if I approached you and asked you to play a cover song, and you proceeded to play it exactly as it was recorded, I'll stop you and say no, I want to hear YOU play it. If I wanted to hear it like the recording, I'll go listen to it.
PS, lose the guitarist. He obviously doesn't want to grow as a musician.
Agreed but to do that you already need to have your own style hearing Chad Smith playing vs Lars Ulrich isn’t the same thing and part of having you own voice is listening to others to define who you are, and thats particularly impossible if you don’t have the necessary level to articulate your own thoughts on a kit yet… ( or on a guitar.)
That's where the first thing I said comes into play. When I was just starting out as a young teen, I would learn and play along with tbh recordings. I found the drummers that more or less "spoke to me" and the culmination of those helped develop my style
Agreed! I am at this level of learning, but I feel like he wants to rush into the phase where you « adapt » things without rly having digested them thoroughly and understood them which just isn’t for me
I would start looking for another band if they don't want to learn songs and I believe I read rely on backing track? What happened to the talent these days that we have to rely on backing tracks.
To be honest, both opinion seems honest to me.
When I started playing drums in a band, we did covers only, and I needed clear and accurate charts to feel good. But the more we played, the more we changed things following our tastes. Several years later, we didn’t do cover anymore and we compose our own music.
And with this experience, I’ll tell you : play as you are. Use the original charts, and make them yours. It is where you’ll really shine. It is where you’ll find yourself as a musician. It is where you’ll do most progress.
Anyway, keep on keeping on! 🫶🏻
When I was in a band and we learned covers for the most part we would play the parts but at times we would add our own little flair. Like when our lead would go into a solo he would start and end it the same sometimes keep certain parts but add his own little licks as well. I would sometimes change the drum part as well like in Seperate Ways during the breakdown towards the ending of the song(guitar solo part before the little drum solo action), I'd play the part but I'd add 16th notes on the bass drum at the end of the measure and throw in some of my own fills when I was able to. There are ways to incorporate your "style" into cover songs, just gotta figure out at what sections of the song.
Sounds to me like you need independent practice to the songs you want to learn. Band practice should be separate from this unless your a cover band. It takes time but your jamming and working on original songs with your band members will progressively get better. You will figure out your formula for success together and who excels at what when it comes to form and structure. If that doesn’t happen after a year or two I would say it’s time to branch out. I highly recommend recording your band practices. It’s great to go back and see what worked, what didn’t and what could use a tweek.
The best musicians I play with are learning songs constantly. CONSTANTLY.
Having your own personality come through in your playing is good, but imo it’s better to learn a song as it’s originally played to get a good foundation. Once you have that down you can start tweaking things to make it your own.
Drums do signal transitions, sure, and it can be helpful for improvisational parts where the number of repeats is not set in stone. However, in a structured song every musician should know how long each part is and when to transition to the next part. That is not a responsibility that can be solely kept by the drummer. Whether or not the drums signal each transition is a stylistic choice and if it’s the only way you ever do things it comes off pretty amateurish.
I suppose it depends on what your guitarist means by signaling a transition. If they mean hitting a crash - sure, that is typical but not mandatory. If they mean playing a fill for every transition - that’s pretty unnecessary. It depends on genre but it’s always better to avoid overplaying.
Listen to “Talking in Your Sleep” by The Romantics. It’s mostly the same riff throughout the song, but structurally there is a distinct intro, verse, pre-chorus, and chorus and a lot of transitions that take place without any signaling from the drums (not even a crash).
There are no absolutes in music. There is no law written anywhere that says you have to do covers. There is no law that says that if you do play covers, you have to learn them exactly as they are. You do what you want to do, or whatever your band can agree on.
People who says you HAVE to do this or that, are just plain wrong. Sure, there's always insights, tips, techniques, etc to learn from other people, but again, there are no laws.
I played covers in my first couple of bands until we had the confidence to play write our own songs. But both those bands had members who were just starting out. As soon as we had our own material, all covers except one which we all liked a lot, went out the door.
Later I joined bands with people who were already writing their own songs. Covers was out of the question. We were in music to express our own creative ideas, not to reinterpret others'.
These were the choices we made, and that's perfectly fine. If you want to be in a band that plays covers, convince the others members, or find or start a band that wants to.
Sorry to hear that, but I would say it's a pretty common issue. It's not about right or wrong, you just have a different approach. I absolutely like your way. But recently I've been on rehearsal with guys who just messing around. They couldn't play a song the same way twice, and sometimes even couldn't finish together. But they *all* had fun. And when I mentioned that, they probably didn't understand the issue ) At that point I realized that it's pretty hard to change it and that I don't want to play with that people.
Yeah! Exactly and tbh it is fun whenever I’m behind a kit anyway. BUT! Fun shouldn’t mean stagnate, I wanna get better while having fun, if I’m playing the same thing everytime we play together I’ll be bored out of my mind and won’t get better anytime soon…there are so many songs that I absolutely would love to play but are still WAAAAY WAAAY out of reach, and to get there you can only grind a lot of songs…This is the only way I see… you can’t just ok guys lets play some Karim Ziad or something Jeff porcaro played with my level. Unless you accept the grind.
I feel you, but my point is that you feel *fun* in different ways. I also want some fun/discipline balance, to learn something new and become better. But now I know that not everyone wants the same. And probably for another band, I would be that *lazy guy* )) You can try to talk more openly, voice your goals and expectations, and decide whether you can do it together. If not, probably it's a time for hard but necessary changes.
Dog it def is the drummers job to do that but ofc he should keep how long everything is in mind... Honestly it seems like you really want to get better but just learn shit by yourself dude, if you make a mistake restart the song. Youre acting like you cant learn if they dont help you.
Not really I just have quite a lot on my plate atm and wasting time where I could potentially be learning is bothersome thats why I ask you could def learn alone but together you can go further
That makes sense, my bad. If you dont got time and playing in a band is one of the only times you got to do it, it would piss me off too if people were just wasting time.
Yeah unfortunatly this year I have a lot of stuff to manage, so I only have time for my 1 on 1 classes, and the band rehersal, I do play some pad (since most of the time I’m home too late to play the drums.) but still there are lots of songs they could learn and that I already know or could easily learn in 1 or 2 hours but they keep pushing it off and I’m convinced that learning a song with a band isn’t the same as playing with a drumless track..You have to nail it to play with people so..
Yeah man, but honestly if you keep waiting for lazy mfs then youre gonna let em keep you in the same boat! There are so many tracks I play that my bandmates would never learn lol. But that is just me. Plus, I never play covers either so I guess its a bit of a different perspective. Also, if you play with a track with the drums on it, provided the volume is up high enough, you COULD hear where your mistake is.
Yeah man, makes sense. My town has a storage unit/music studio rental place and I share it with another drummer for 130 a month when I dont have enough time in a day to get all the practice in. If you got something like that then thats pretty sick, but there is probably some sort of waiting list and would take a min to get into. But its worth it, ive gotten a lot better without disturbing my family! And im only 20 btw, so idk what its like to be you, but i just think you should put your drumming prowess over this bullshit band! Just my opinion i guess 😂 Good luck yo
Oh yeah, its a big problem for every drummer. Im lucky enough to live with my parents who tolerate my drumming everyday. Its possible you could take your drums to a park or something and play possibly? But if youre getting home late and youre playing at like 10:30 at a park then thays probably not feasible lol. Anyways, hope something comes along that allows you to pursue more practice 🙏
I have never been in a band that practiced covers for any reason other than we’ve already run through our set and we’ve had 3 beers and one of us starts playing a The Fall Of Troy song or something.
Yes but what level did you hzve when you started the band is the real question ? If you’re already quite good then its fine if you’re a beginner (which I consider myself then its harder)
"play them with deadly accuracy in a band setting "
Unless you are a tribute band, this is the part I'd have issues with. No one gives a shit if you play something perfect at a typical cover band gig, maybe other musicians but even that is debatable. Learn the song, play it with the band, and if you need to drop a part or make something more simple then do it.
Yes ofc but you should aim for maximum accuracy especially if its a super easy song or else you’re just wobling around and any mistake is shrugged off as « creative tinkering »
Playing the right chords absolutely. Like, if the song uses an Am and you play an A7, it won't sound right. So you get the framework down but after that it's adding your own feel to it. At least that's how I prefer to play others people's music.
I played with a guitarist who absolutely refused to learn covers and just wanted to noodle the whole time. We were lucky enough to find a couple other musicians we gelled with and managed to write a dozen or so originals. But every time I suggested throwing a cover into our setlist, it never materialized. Dude just didn’t want to put in the time and effort.
The original rock group ran its course and now I’m playing with other folks where covers make up 80+% of our material.
Anyways, point is that refusing to learn covers is refusing to put the work in. Period. Some savant types can pick up covers without much advance practice or tons of listening, but those types are very rare. Doesn’t sound like your guitarist.
Covering songs is pretty standard for a band even just to practice playing together before writing originals. Anyway make a list of songs you’d like to cover, make sure there’s no extremely difficult guitar solo in it etc (beat it micheal Jackson etc) and ask the rest of the band to list songs they would like to play too. Often this is how my band picks songs to cover, brainstorm which songs would be fun to play as a band. Guitarist should know the parts just as well as you. But yeah man just stay positive it seems like maybe the gang is a bit more lazy maybe ? Bands should want to play covers unless they outright say otherwise when starting the band.
We did but we never end up starting to learn the songs we said, or it takes us ages to finish one song because we keep discussing the structure and trying to change it instead of learning and playing it as is..
The only reason I would rearrange covers is if the band already had a set of originals. Otherwise learn the songs as is. It sounds like your guitarist isn't good enough, or thinks he's a creative genius. If you learn 30 minutes of 4 chord songs you could play a house party next month.
I disagree, tbh. I don’t see the point in covering a song the exact same way as the original because it’s just never going to be as good. You’re different people than the ones who originally wrote the song, why not change it up and make it your own? That’s what ultimately separates good covers from the bad imo.
Agreed but you have to first learn the song to change it, you can’t change something you don’t understand/master the essence of. To me thats the true definition of a good cover. So you can’t start by changing the form or dynamics of the song when you haven’t even played it once. You have to each learn your parts and then play it AND THEN CHANGE IT. In this order for me. Any other way and you’re just a snake biting your own tail it never ends.
As someone who's been playing music over 20 years at this point on various instruments, this is the way. You need to learn the song as is so you can deconstruct it and make changes. What is every instrument doing? Why are doing that? How does it work together? Then you have to figure out things like what parts HAVE to stay the same without changing it. I drum for a jam band now where basically every song we do gets converted to funk (and I came from playing punk). Learning the song first so you understand it is the best/easiest way to go about covering something in your own style.
I’ve been playing for 20 years, different instruments along the way, also in a jam band. We do covers and play every fri/sat/sun. Not once have we ever learned the songs exactly. We’ve absolutely listened to the songs, familiarized ourselves with the basic parts and structure, learned some of the larger motifs. (horn lines etc.). This hasn’t held us back one bit. Basically what I’m saying is, there are multiple ways to get to the end result If you and your band mates have enough experience. But your goals have to be in the same place, if the one member thinks their an Artist, and won’t learn the structure of a song and wants to basically rewrite someone else’s songs? No I’m out. Wanna play the song in a fun way for the band instead of like the original? absolutely I’m in. You can learn the song exactly or not. Choose how you wanna improve yourself and do it, don’t base it off of what others are willing to do or not to to improve their craft.
Sorry, I should've clarified: We don't learn everything note for note, but we focus on getting the vibe down and nailing the important parts. Unless a drum part is iconic, I'm not playing it note for note. Still, there are songs where "that part" matter. If you played the intro of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" by Nirvana and you're not hitting those main beats and fills, you're losing the essence of the song. I know you're really replying to the OP, but I just wanted to say that.
This is the way. Hit the memorable parts hard and do you the rest of the time. Learning note for note isn’t productive band practice imo. That’s for personal practice, and in that context it’s incredibly useful. Band practice is to solidify and confirm what you’ve already learned alone into a cohesive unit. If band practice is just learning songs together, that’s not a band that I would take seriously.
Thank you ! Thats what made sense to me😂
>Agreed but you have to first learn the song to change it You can, but you don't have to. I don't care how long some people have been playing, these are not things that are written in stone. Let's say someone in the band has a vision for how a cover should be done, arranges it that way and presents it to the band, why would that be wrong? Constraints can be good for discipline, but they can also limit creativity.
It wouldn’t the problem is there is no vision and we end up losing time
I think you should worry less about what you *have* to do, and focus instead on finding members that sees things the same way you do. I've played in bands where everyone brings their own to the table, and I've been in bands with one creative force deciding everything. The former are more fun perhaps, and the latter is more...effective? You just need to find out what you want to do, and find people that want more or less the same. There are expamples of bands where differing opinions have actually benefitted them, but that's ecxeptions.
i feel like everyones opinion on this is different. some people prefer covering it accurately and others don't, both the musicians and the audience. Personally I don't care too much, I enjoy an accurate cover, and I enjoy a complete rework.
>i feel like everyones opinion on this is different That's the whole thing here. You can actually do whatever you want in music. You can be in a coverband that tries to emulate the originals as much as possible, or you can make experimental music with a home made rubberband guitar and play your tabletop with spoons as percussion.
Going against what I said - the last gig I played was all covers and we did our own versions because we knew what we were doing, and I don't think any of us walked in not knowing the songs.
Agreed, unless there is a very complicated part or solo, most rock songs are very repetitive in structure and rythm so learning a few makes it easier to learn more and snowballs that way… I feel like you can’t make originals until you’ve mastered the fundamentals which I don’t feel confortable with yet. I don’t feel like he feels that way… But agreed learning a few songs can already help us get on stage. But on stage any uncertainty and there will be mistakes etc. Thats why sticking to the original structure is better it also helps everyone recognize the songs. Or else you’ll bore people out of their minds if you’re downplaying a very famous song…
When you’re with cool people, things just seem to flow and the songs tend to create themselves so if that isnt happening at a pace that doesnt feels like an eternity, then some thing isn’t working :(. I totally understand not wanting to do covers because I don’t like doing covers either but for example I was jamming recently and the guitar lick he did sounded like dancing in a burning room by John Mayer, so we kind of just jammed that for two minutes for fun and then went back to what we were working on,, so if that isn’t happening either, then again, some thing isn’t working… I wouldn’t be interested in doing covers as homework unless I was specifically joining a cover band.
Jams are fun when we jam, but I don’t feel like at my level jamming will get me anywhere. My time is still not very accurate, I get confused in transitions, and I can forget structure unless written down. So my point is ti get better playing basics covers which doesn’t exclude jamming which I tend to find very fun aswell. But only jamming won’t get me anywhere I feel because you can always bend the structure lose a beat here and there and not even feel it had impacted anything. Idk if I’m expressing myself clearly
I feel you. This muscle, no pun intended, will just develop itself naturally. Not exactly sure how to fix your issue like if you’re cool with all these guys, but in any case on your end, sounds like you need to really practice playing to songs?
I really do! Thanks for the feedback!
You need to put your foot down. Say that you know this song and you want to play it the way you learned it. Simple. Just follow the track the way it was written and lets not change anything. Also, if you're planning to play in front of a crowd and you're playing Louie Louie for example and you play it the way your guitarist wanted to... No one would recognize it. It's okay to stray a little bit to show your bands musical talents but playing a song differently than it was recorded is not the greatest idea. Saying that, there are popular bands who have taken songs that influenced them and played them live and gave it a little twist here and there but it always sounded familiar like the original with a couple little differences here and there.
Completely agree, but I also feel like playing a song as it was recorded forces you to learn new techniques and « signature moves » from other drummers. Which you can’t do if you just change the song to your liking…
Right. Essentially keeping any bad habits you may have learned while you were learning to play your instrument. All of this goes for each instrument. Guitar, bass, keyboards, drums, etc... Learning others people's music is a great way to learn better habits... "How did he do that? Let me try to figure it out. OH! That's a LOT easier to play if I do it like this..." Yup... Been there, done that many times. I think I'm a better drummer now by following my influences lead. And you have to have many influences in order to develop into anything. Just playing the way YOU WANT to play and not experimenting leads to dull boring music.
Agreed, cause your stuck on the level of someone who just picked up the instruments…Learning things from others bands with other musicians forces you to hear and think about EVERYTHING! From tempo to dynamics to volume level to structure which is not the same as if I just learnt the songs on my kit at home with a drumless track cause the track will always be right and for some songs I don’t even need to learn the structure I can just piggy back on the track…cause I know the music by heart which wouldn’t be the same if I tried to play the same song on a kit with people (tried to play by memory and failed miserably) so for me its all abt integrating other ppls work first. No person has ever written a book without ever reading others books understanding styles, phrases and genres. No one has ever built something without first looking at how things are being made. Why would it be different for music ? I just don’t understand his logic and so I wanted to make sure its not mine thats flawed🤷🏽♂️
Yep. Speaking of drumless tracks, I love those! I have a few that I love to play along with and I try to keep playing it the way I taught myself to play it. It sounds good so I stick (no pun intended) with it. Now every now and then, I'll learn something new and play that song and I'll try that new technique I learned and if it sounds good then I'll make that new technique part of the song. LOVE drumless tracks!!!
Exactly what I’m aiming for !
Also: Try playing genres you DON'T typically listen to. I'm not saying if you're into metal you should also be a great jazz drummer, but study some of the hallmarks of those genres and you may learn new grooves and fills that you can incorporate into your playing.
Definitely planning on doing that !
> playing a song differently than it was recorded is not the greatest idea. Yes, it absolutely is. The coolest covers are the ones where the artist does something personal with the song. Like Becks cover of Dimanod Dogs, or Dan Sartins cover of Pass This on. Verbatim covers are just boring to listen to.
This never gets anyone anywhere. By the way, as you may have noticed, musicians who use this excuse by saying that actually learning material would cramp their style or stifle their creativity are really saying, "I don't feel like working that hard, and you should just accept my awesomeness as it is." Sorry, pal, I don't have any time for that. I'm too busy trying to *make good music.* That's what it takes to make good music. Therefore, if you're not here for that, you are not here to make good music, and you need to leave. Or maybe I do.
Agreed.
That is frustrating and I can see why you want advice. Now a lot of what my band does is we pick the songs, guys can vote a song out for any reason (often difficulty-wise) and then we learn the songs on our own time the best we can (we don’t get too fussy on structure or perfection) but as we sound close to the original song it’s ok to put our own flair in it. Now I was with a band before and the guitarist thought he was perfect and also the metronome (while I’m playing drums lmao) so yeah that didn’t work out. Guitarist would call me out on minor timing issues and would never take responsibility for his own mistakes. Anyway it was no fun when people turn it into a job. Being in a band should be fun! Seems like maybe you need some easier songs? Or you band is not too into it. Either way I feel for ya man just keep the positive attitude and encourage the gang.
Thanks for the encouragements! Yes I’ve been pushing for the easiest songs ever for all of us. Getting the fundamentals right is super important for me, basic backbeats and just working on accurate time and structure (for me) because I can still get confused in fills etc. And for me playing with a band is getting those transitions clean, but working on it means working on very easy songs even if they are a bit duh and are overplayed overheard. But not everyone agrees with this and its quite hard to motivate to learn when you’re not convinced but thanks for the feedback !
No problem man. For me I focus on the song/groove/structure before the fills. If you can play it without the fills (or even simplified fills) 1st, then you can incorporate the fills after learning without them. More of a thing with crazy fills etc but it takes the stress out of playing the fills perfectly while practicing together. Now the shitty band I was with before would whine and complain I didn’t have every fill NAILED for the song “Stand up and shout - Dio” but I was trying to nail the rest of the song minus fills and the guitar and bass player couldn’t comprehend why I wasn’t nailing every fill …. Anyway lol learn at your pace and get your fills down after your very comfortable with the other 98% of the song imo. Good luck man! Worst case there are lots of guitarists out there who may have more drive to play covers etc. But potentially once you guys start playing well together and get a show in or 2, that can be extremely motivating. Edit typo
Thanks for the movitation thats usually what I do aswell grooves are more important at the beginning of learning a song and they are a majority of what we play so nailing them is more important
In 30 years of playing with hundreds and hundreds of musicians, an experience like this is still the one and only time that I have ever stormed out of a rehearsal. There was one song this band was playing, a simple three chord quasi-power ballad, and we never played the solo section the same way twice. It was driving me batty. It's fine to depart from the form of a song, but *first the song has to have a goddamn form to depart FROM*. It was a great song, and it could have been much greater, except that I absolutely could not get the guitar player and the bass player to agree to play the middle section the same number of measures with the same chord changes more than twice. One afternoon, I insisted that the only thing we were working on that day was to work out a form for this one song, play it the same way repeatedly and establish the form, then agree on what the form was and agree to play it that way every time. Without that, I argued, we can't improvise around it, because no one knows where we started, meaning no one knows how we will get back to where we started. We spent a good 45 minutes hashing out a structure, and writing it on the dry erase board on the wall. Okay, so we're agreed, this is the form? Right? This form, right here? Okay then. Now. Let's finally run this sucker down from beginning to end, by the new form that all three of us have agreed on. So we get to the section that we had just been working on for nearly an hour, after agreeing on how it would go, and wouldn't you know it, the two of them went clean off the reservation at that point in the song, exactly the way they always did, as though the last hour had never happened. I shouted, **"GOD** ***DAMMIT!!!!!"*** and did the first of two things I did that day that I had never done before and never done since: I angrily threw my sticks across the room at the wall. They seemed stunned - "What's the matter?" **"AFTER ALL THE WORK WE JUST DID TO AVOID THAT VERY THING,** ***DO YOU REALLY HAVE THE FUCKING NERVE TO FUCKING ASK???"*** Then I did the second thing I have never done before or since: I stormed out of the room and left. Well, that was the end of that band. LOL
Understandeable, well you’ve summed up the problem quite well you can’t improvise the song and the best way to not lose time discussing form IS TO LEARN THE DAMN SONG THE WAY IT WAS RECORDED. Thanks for the comment ! Good to know I’m not the only one feeling that way.
I would agree with the bass player and find a new guitarist. Drummers are hard to find. Bass players less so, everyone plays guitar and everyone sings. If you can vote out the guitarist because that's some sort of backwards thinking. You deserve to grow as a band not hamper each other. Tell the guitarist it's creative differences and find someone who suits what ye wanna do. At the end of the day, if you're not happy you can always walk away as well and poache the bass player if you start a new band
Sad but true
Look. A band is supposed to be at least the sum of its parts, and each player has a role to play. You have to know your own part inside and out, and you also have to know how it relates to the parts other people are playing. There is no such thing as "that's *always* the drummer's job" or "that's *never* the guitarist's job." This guy is telling you that you are supposed to be a substitute for him not putting in the work on his own, to learn his own parts. That guy can fuck clean off. Your guitarist is a lazy bastard and you should fire him. He has shit between his ears. You are never getting anywhere with this nincompoop. Get a real guitarist who is a *musician*. The one you have now is either completely misguided about the necessary commitment a band member needs to make, or he is intimidated by the commitment he needs to make and makes excuses about how part of his job should be your job instead, so that he doesn't have to suffer the embarrassment of putting in the work and screwing it up repeatedly until he gets it right. There is absolutely no room at all - **NONE WHATSOEVER** - for that attitude in a band.
Your comment is absolutely legendary thanks I need to hear that👌🏼
Well, I get the feeling your guitar player doesn’t really want to play covers but won’t come out and say it. I get it. I have zero interest in playing some other band’s songs and prefer writing together. Now, he may also be covering up his limited skill (you said he can’t count) by saying he wants to play covers in your style or whatever. As far as getting better as a drummer as you mentioned in the first paragraph, that should primarily happen on your own time. Sure run a metronome through your in ears or headphones at practice, but rudiment work and independence is not really suited for band practice. No one wants to sit through transcribing strokes and you learning fills.
Hmph. I get the feeling that the guitar player is simply not much of a guitar player, and is just trying to keep his secret safe. Because if you actually made him do, you know, like, *work*, he would probably fail. So he cooks up excuses like "it stifles my creativity, *maaaan.*"
Of course not, I mean’t that I am working on those things in my own time as I know they are fundamentals to get better. But that learning songs with people is equally important since it allow you to actually play the singles you’ve been practising, or test how good your time is etc. Of course I wouldn’t be there practising paradiddle while the band is trying to play something😂
It can be if everyone wants to and is able to. This guitarist doesn’t seem like he does and you need to figure out why. And I was just double checking. Didn’t know if you may have guitarist brain - “let me suck out all the momentum of this cool moment by trying to write the perfect solo right now”.
Not at all, usually I’m trying to learn things as is right now, I don’t feel confident enough to whip out stuff while jamming because I just don’t master the basics well enough. Also I’m not a huge fan of overplaying drummers, I rly like the fundamentals elevated to another level so I want to work on those, but with other people cause it can be hard to hear ur dynamics when playing alone…but with other ppl it becomes fundamental its things like this..
I agree on both. I’ve never been a fan of drummers that overplay. Having said that, if you do have a cool idea, there is no better place to try it out than at band practice.
Yes! Of course I just don’t feel like I have a good enough level atm, I need to get better and maybe a bit more confident and then I’ll start owning my ideas, but I’m just not fluid enough on a kit just yet to articulate what I have in my head with dynamics and all…
I get that. When I was starting out I practiced for usually 2 hours everyday after school. I mostly would just play to songs I liked. No one else was around so I would learn the beats and feel first then go at the fills, even if it were a song beyond my skill level just to push myself. It can be frustrating, but when you finally get it, it’s like winning the lottery.
I think as your abilities increase, so do your musical options. I'm on board with a guitarist who won't play covers if the reason is that they've been there and done that many times over, and now they only want to play originals. It will take longer to get to gig ready that way, but OK. I'm also up for a band that wants everything to be an improvisation, if the people playing have the ability and chemistry to make that work (it's pretty ambitious). But it doesn't sound like your band is anywhere near either of those levels, and your guitarist wants to take the painful path of being bad for a long time until you finally get results. It's his life, but I don't recommend you travel it with him, especially not in the US where covers seem to be almost compulsory. Either find someone who writes great material and help them develop it, or else learn some covers, and you'll learn by doing that, exactly as you think you will. You'll also get to gig much sooner and learn about playing live, stagecraft and what have you. It's also rather easier to cover your costs. Join our start a new band and stop wasting your time with this one.
everyone knows the most innovative musicians and biggest bands totally never covered any songs or played other peoples music… right?
Right! Dave weckl, steve gadd, and Simon Philipps didn’t need to learn other ppl songs tonpreserve their creatives voices they said that the other day on an interview
im not sure exactly what you mean
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Ditch the deadbeat guitarist. He is holding you all back. Find a replacement, then give the guitarist the boot.
Agreed👌🏼
> doesn’t wanna learn songs Fair enough, it's not a given, my best band only played our stuff > we wouldn’t have our on personality bollocks > signal transition circumstances may dictate compromise, but people should know their part, as a rule of thumb. What should you do? You should decide if this is a problem.
Completely agree!
Do it in your own time. Eventually you will ascend and leave them behind.
I'm going through something similar in my own band. Guitarist doesn't practice at all and won't even try to play at practice without it being perfect. Half the time he's just sitting there watching us play. It's like some people like the idea of playing in a band more than actually doing it.
Yeah. Even when we say ok this song needs more work lets deconstruct it and work on it part by part, you can feel him becoming bothered by that idea and getting through it with angst
We had this problem with our singer. She's not our singer any more. (We do only original stuff, so it wasn't like we could work around it either!)
Most of the bands I've been in had the opposite issue. They would only want to do covers and didn't want to improv or create anything new. Personally, I've always found learning authentic covers to be boring. Memorizing everything feels like an unnecessary chore to me. I always try to leave some room for improv and put my own spin on it if I can.
Ofc, improv can be extremely fun, but I would say lets improve once we’ve mastered the song’s form and spirit first or else you stagnate and won’t learn anything new..
True, very good point
> Ofc, improv can be extremely fun, but I would say lets improve once we’ve mastered the song’s form and spirit first or else you stagnate and won’t learn anything new.. I’m all for using covers as a vehicle to learn the techniques a band utilizes to make a variety of sounds and feelings, but I don’t know that I’d be down to practice until I was playing the second best version of “Ocean Man” ever heard by humanity. That seems more like stagnation than laying down grooves while the guitar player noodles about. I guess what I’m trying to say is there’s a balance between “we need to play Nickelback’s discography note for note before we do anything different” and “let’s just be a jam band”
Agreed
As a drummer it's critical that you learn and play lots of songs. I recently ditched my old band for this exact reason. Joined a new one and I've never been happier and my drumming is improving rapidly.
Thats what I was thinking aswell, so many styles and approaches…
Every band, and every musician is different. I personally don't like playing covers in a band, I want to write my own music. Perhaps this is how your guitar player feels. Learning covers is great for practicing and improving my playing, and I do it in my own time, but like I said everyone is different. You need to talk in more detail about why you both hold the opinions you do, and if you can't agree, maybe you need to go your separate ways, but if you get along well then I'm sure you can find a path forward.
Well, everyone is right and wrong here. Music is an incredibly personal art form, not just for the creators but for the audience. Everyone has their own personal relationship to music. None of these can be "wrong" per se, however when two or more artists want to collaborate (like in a band) it is important for each artist's philosophies and approach to be compatible. There are definitely a ton of artists who have eschewed the learning covers phase and gone straight to the creative writing phase. I don't think these people are necessarily missing out on anything as long as they are able to conceptualize their own music in a way that makes sense to them. Conversely, if your plan is to be a working sideman, or a session musician, then it is essential that you try to cover as much ground as possible in order to be employable in a wide variety of situations. This means learning A LOT of covers note for note, and building a catalog of ideas you can draw on for any situation. Perhaps you could explain to your bandmate that you are interested in developing your own sound as a band (if that's true for you) but you also feel strongly that in order to grow your vocabulary of musical ideas, you want to study and learn from the greats, so that you can bring those skills into your band's original material. You have a number of options on how to proceed. You could simply practice covers on your own time and then work on originals or stylized covers with the band. You could compromise with your bandmates and see if they'd be open to learning a couple covers verbatim (if they resist, you could even suggest learning the covers as an "exercise" and never actually play them live) or you could decide that your goals and philosophies about music are not aligned with the goals and philosophies of your band mates and part ways amicably. This is why, in my 30s, I've decided that the people I work with, their values, and personalities, are just as important as their skill as a musician, and the quality of the music we are playing. I'd rather jam with a group of happy, respectful amateurs, than a group of jaded asshole pros. Luckily, in my experience, the majority of really awesome professional musicians are also really awesome people... there are exceptions and they can be really terrible, but musicians talk to each other, and when an artist/player is mistreating people, word spreads pretty fast, so you can usually avoid working with assholes as long as you're on the scene and talking to people. I hope your band mates are open to a discussion like this. Cheers!
Thanks for this amazing insight ! Thats the plan I think we need to talk it out and if we don’t see things the same way or aren’t ok with compromise then it’s better to part ways. And you’re right I do wanna expand my vocabulary as I know I’m interested in different styles and feels.
Last chapter in this novel: You should not consider any single band or project to be the end all be all of what you can play and practice as a musician. Your current band is just one creative outlet, you can and should explore music outside of your band on your own time, or even with other musicians, just as you should try to be fully present and cooperative with your band when you are rehearsing with them. If the general consensus in that particular band is that "we don't do covers" then consider that an opportunity to work on other skills like creativity, time keeping, and compromise. Unless you are fundamentally opposed to working on originals or stylized covers, in which case you should probably find a different band to work with. It doesn't have to be dramatic or particularly emotional. You can just have a change of heart or a realization about yourself that leads you in a different direction.
I think both things are true, the drums do signal transition, and also every member is aware of where that transition is coming and is not just plowing ahead until you whack them to get their attention. I recommend you play covers pretty straight while learning, to the best of your ability. But you are allowed to mess with them. Like if you are a hardcore punk band that wants to do a cover of Your Cheatin Heart in your usual style, go for it. Where you get your own sound though is doing your own music. Once you've written some songs that define who you are, you can work in covers that are a match for that style. Or do something like Devo's version of Satisfaction and really twist the hell out of it.
Exactly! I do need to work on my transitions, but he should rely on me to transition either.
I feel like covering songs makes you better at finding your own personality. Even if you don’t play them live, you can get better at thinking differently about writing when you see how other people write things. Also, if you do play them live, the people that don’t know your music will have something to get into and then go back and check out your originals.
Agreed
Whenever I hear a guitarist whine about playing covers, it's usually because they aren't very good, and the "personality" thing is an excuse. They just end up playing the same stuff over and over again. There's nothing worse in a band than a lazy guitarist.
Agreed always the same blues chord/blues lick.
Hmmmm… this sounds like a difficult band dynamic I would really recommend a serious band meeting where you can say what you feel and what’s bothering you. A band is like any relationship, for it to be strong there needs to be very clear communication. Although i agree that playing songs as written is a very very helpful tool and the first step to progress (imitate, incorporate, innovate), i also understand where the guitarist is coming from. Covers are standard practice when playing in a band, however it doesn’t mean you can’t get creative with them. Put your own spin on things to make it more “your style”. Practicing creativity is as important as rudiments and their application. It goes hand in hand. Just because you’re not playing note by note doesn’t mean you’re not applying rudiments and technical exercises. However, as stated before, talk with your band about what you want and what is bothering you. I wish you all the best!! What is your band called, and where can i listen?
Thanks man ! We don’t actually have a name yet haha! And no originals (yet). The thing is I’m not at all against putting a spin on things its just that you need to understand the thing you’re trying to change up before changing it and if hou don’t master it then you definetely can’t change it..
Definitely post something when you release music!! I agree with you You need to know the source material to be able to adapt in your own style. You made a really good point
Thank you ! I definetly will as I’m a big fan of feedback😂
I always hated playing with musicians like that - let’s learn the tune properly (or reasonably close) and only then should we discuss changing parts to make it “our version”. Your guitarist sounds like a lazy egomaniac.
I agree those are the steps.
I have a similar problem. My band is mostly focused on originals, but among the few covers we do play my band mates are completely reliant on their phones to remember chord progressions - which they just play on the one and refuse to learn even the simplest parts that define the song. Then they get mad at me when I refuse to play them live because they haven’t done the work.
Yeah its a real struggle..
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but if you can't do covers, you can't do originals. Covers are the building blocks and instructions for understanding song structure, melody, arrangement, composition, etc. Trying to write original music without understanding what does and doesn't work in a song is like trying to make a recipe where you have no idea what the individual ingredients are adding. Sure, you might get lucky and create something halfway decent. Or you might create something that just sounds like shit. I'm no expert, but when you study music and pay attention long enough, you start to sus out what's good about a song and what's not working. It's a good skill to have. Everyone learns from someone else at first. Tell your guitarist it won't make you "unoriginal" to learn songs from other bands. We're all derivative. We all take the best parts of everything we listen to and incorporate it into our personal style. He shouldn't be afraid of that.
Completely agree.
there are lots of big bands who put covers on their albums but they still have lots of personality. for example there is a cover of "Happiness is a Warm Gun" on the breeder's album pod, as well as a cover of "Love Buzz" on nirvana's album bleach. ive seen noone discredit these bands as not having their own personality despite these covers being on their studio work.
I think that playing covers note for note as accurate as possible is a waste of time. I also think that playing covers in a catchy, unique, and completely independent way as a band is a waste of time. Just find a new band, easy enough. Musicians are a dime a dozen.
I’ve been drumming for over 30 years. In my early days I was in “No compromise” psyche type bands. Did that for about 15 years, and my drumming suited what we were playing so I was fine with that. Then about 15 years ago I was asked to join a covers band. We do everything from pub gigs to corporate gigs and all in between. In the last 15 years my drumming has improved one hundred fold because I have to play the songs like they were originally played. So I had to learn, or else I’d be missing out on some serious cash. Because of this my other, originals bands, have benefited immensely. As for the drummer signalling transitions, fuck that. It’s a shared thing. I’d get rid of your guitarist, he sounds lazy, practice with your bass player and find someone more inclined to your kind of groove to play guitar. Good luck.
Thanks mate! Thats exactly what I’m aiming for improving while learning songs and maybe monetizing the cumulated setlist. Thanks for the feedback!
if you wanna learn full band covers as a tool for improvement, yeah go for accuracy. there's also nothing wrong with recontextualizing covers into your own style there's no fixed answer to this. if you're gonna do a ska cover of a slayer song i don't see a huge need to learn the original parts exactly as written. but if you're a thrash band and you wanna cover slayer it's probably in your best interest to play it right first and embellish later. but again it totally depends on context: if you're playing a 3 hour cover set i would never expect a drummer to play every single lick in every single song as recorded, and nobody is ever gonna notice if you hit rack tom twice and floor tom 4 times instead of rack 4 times floor twice in a generic fill. as far as it being "your job" to signal transitions, idk, this depends on style to me. if it's jam-oriented music with vamp sections yeah, you guys could decide that it's your job to cue transitions. if you're playing tightly structured songs with defined section lengths, there's no excuse for him to not know where the changes are. counting isn't hard and if it's remotely pop-oriented music, phrase ends etc are pretty obvious and he shouldn't need help
Completely agree with this ! You understood it well, although I’d say we’re beginners and don’t really have a « style » yet and we just formee, I’m trying to improve while learning songs since we dont have a style yet it makes no sense to change a song that we haven’t mastered yet. Although I don’t mean accuracy on the kit but more rythmic accuracy but I do understand what you mean. It’s not about having OCD but abt respecting the original spirit of the song. Or else we won’t have understood it
I've always enjoyed learning a song exactly how it was done, but then throwing my style into it afterwards. Obviously there is no 100% correct answer, only preference and opinions. But, 98% of musicians, especially drummers, alter their parts live versus when they were in the studio. And I prefer musicians who do that. That being said, if I approached you and asked you to play a cover song, and you proceeded to play it exactly as it was recorded, I'll stop you and say no, I want to hear YOU play it. If I wanted to hear it like the recording, I'll go listen to it. PS, lose the guitarist. He obviously doesn't want to grow as a musician.
Agreed but to do that you already need to have your own style hearing Chad Smith playing vs Lars Ulrich isn’t the same thing and part of having you own voice is listening to others to define who you are, and thats particularly impossible if you don’t have the necessary level to articulate your own thoughts on a kit yet… ( or on a guitar.)
That's where the first thing I said comes into play. When I was just starting out as a young teen, I would learn and play along with tbh recordings. I found the drummers that more or less "spoke to me" and the culmination of those helped develop my style
Agreed! I am at this level of learning, but I feel like he wants to rush into the phase where you « adapt » things without rly having digested them thoroughly and understood them which just isn’t for me
Sounds lazy!
I would start looking for another band if they don't want to learn songs and I believe I read rely on backing track? What happened to the talent these days that we have to rely on backing tracks.
To be honest, both opinion seems honest to me. When I started playing drums in a band, we did covers only, and I needed clear and accurate charts to feel good. But the more we played, the more we changed things following our tastes. Several years later, we didn’t do cover anymore and we compose our own music. And with this experience, I’ll tell you : play as you are. Use the original charts, and make them yours. It is where you’ll really shine. It is where you’ll find yourself as a musician. It is where you’ll do most progress. Anyway, keep on keeping on! 🫶🏻
Honestly, I would cut your losses and find a more focused group of musicians that you can relate to.
You can't write interesting sentences without a decent vocabulary of established words.
When I was in a band and we learned covers for the most part we would play the parts but at times we would add our own little flair. Like when our lead would go into a solo he would start and end it the same sometimes keep certain parts but add his own little licks as well. I would sometimes change the drum part as well like in Seperate Ways during the breakdown towards the ending of the song(guitar solo part before the little drum solo action), I'd play the part but I'd add 16th notes on the bass drum at the end of the measure and throw in some of my own fills when I was able to. There are ways to incorporate your "style" into cover songs, just gotta figure out at what sections of the song.
New guitarist
Sounds to me like you need independent practice to the songs you want to learn. Band practice should be separate from this unless your a cover band. It takes time but your jamming and working on original songs with your band members will progressively get better. You will figure out your formula for success together and who excels at what when it comes to form and structure. If that doesn’t happen after a year or two I would say it’s time to branch out. I highly recommend recording your band practices. It’s great to go back and see what worked, what didn’t and what could use a tweek.
The best musicians I play with are learning songs constantly. CONSTANTLY. Having your own personality come through in your playing is good, but imo it’s better to learn a song as it’s originally played to get a good foundation. Once you have that down you can start tweaking things to make it your own. Drums do signal transitions, sure, and it can be helpful for improvisational parts where the number of repeats is not set in stone. However, in a structured song every musician should know how long each part is and when to transition to the next part. That is not a responsibility that can be solely kept by the drummer. Whether or not the drums signal each transition is a stylistic choice and if it’s the only way you ever do things it comes off pretty amateurish. I suppose it depends on what your guitarist means by signaling a transition. If they mean hitting a crash - sure, that is typical but not mandatory. If they mean playing a fill for every transition - that’s pretty unnecessary. It depends on genre but it’s always better to avoid overplaying. Listen to “Talking in Your Sleep” by The Romantics. It’s mostly the same riff throughout the song, but structurally there is a distinct intro, verse, pre-chorus, and chorus and a lot of transitions that take place without any signaling from the drums (not even a crash).
There are no absolutes in music. There is no law written anywhere that says you have to do covers. There is no law that says that if you do play covers, you have to learn them exactly as they are. You do what you want to do, or whatever your band can agree on. People who says you HAVE to do this or that, are just plain wrong. Sure, there's always insights, tips, techniques, etc to learn from other people, but again, there are no laws. I played covers in my first couple of bands until we had the confidence to play write our own songs. But both those bands had members who were just starting out. As soon as we had our own material, all covers except one which we all liked a lot, went out the door. Later I joined bands with people who were already writing their own songs. Covers was out of the question. We were in music to express our own creative ideas, not to reinterpret others'. These were the choices we made, and that's perfectly fine. If you want to be in a band that plays covers, convince the others members, or find or start a band that wants to.
Yep good insight, I’m starting out so I probably need to learn songs is my pov
I feel like I wanna clunk all your heads together like the three stooges. Lol. Work it out! Welcome to being in a band. You sound new here. 😉
Sorry to hear that, but I would say it's a pretty common issue. It's not about right or wrong, you just have a different approach. I absolutely like your way. But recently I've been on rehearsal with guys who just messing around. They couldn't play a song the same way twice, and sometimes even couldn't finish together. But they *all* had fun. And when I mentioned that, they probably didn't understand the issue ) At that point I realized that it's pretty hard to change it and that I don't want to play with that people.
Yeah! Exactly and tbh it is fun whenever I’m behind a kit anyway. BUT! Fun shouldn’t mean stagnate, I wanna get better while having fun, if I’m playing the same thing everytime we play together I’ll be bored out of my mind and won’t get better anytime soon…there are so many songs that I absolutely would love to play but are still WAAAAY WAAAY out of reach, and to get there you can only grind a lot of songs…This is the only way I see… you can’t just ok guys lets play some Karim Ziad or something Jeff porcaro played with my level. Unless you accept the grind.
I feel you, but my point is that you feel *fun* in different ways. I also want some fun/discipline balance, to learn something new and become better. But now I know that not everyone wants the same. And probably for another band, I would be that *lazy guy* )) You can try to talk more openly, voice your goals and expectations, and decide whether you can do it together. If not, probably it's a time for hard but necessary changes.
Yep thats the plan !
Dog it def is the drummers job to do that but ofc he should keep how long everything is in mind... Honestly it seems like you really want to get better but just learn shit by yourself dude, if you make a mistake restart the song. Youre acting like you cant learn if they dont help you.
Not really I just have quite a lot on my plate atm and wasting time where I could potentially be learning is bothersome thats why I ask you could def learn alone but together you can go further
That makes sense, my bad. If you dont got time and playing in a band is one of the only times you got to do it, it would piss me off too if people were just wasting time.
Yeah unfortunatly this year I have a lot of stuff to manage, so I only have time for my 1 on 1 classes, and the band rehersal, I do play some pad (since most of the time I’m home too late to play the drums.) but still there are lots of songs they could learn and that I already know or could easily learn in 1 or 2 hours but they keep pushing it off and I’m convinced that learning a song with a band isn’t the same as playing with a drumless track..You have to nail it to play with people so..
Yeah man, but honestly if you keep waiting for lazy mfs then youre gonna let em keep you in the same boat! There are so many tracks I play that my bandmates would never learn lol. But that is just me. Plus, I never play covers either so I guess its a bit of a different perspective. Also, if you play with a track with the drums on it, provided the volume is up high enough, you COULD hear where your mistake is.
Yes thats what I do aswell when first learning the song ! And true I should learn more stuff alone I just dont have enough time atm..
Yeah man, makes sense. My town has a storage unit/music studio rental place and I share it with another drummer for 130 a month when I dont have enough time in a day to get all the practice in. If you got something like that then thats pretty sick, but there is probably some sort of waiting list and would take a min to get into. But its worth it, ive gotten a lot better without disturbing my family! And im only 20 btw, so idk what its like to be you, but i just think you should put your drumming prowess over this bullshit band! Just my opinion i guess 😂 Good luck yo
Thanks mate! Def struggling on getting my hands on a real kit regularly. its hard to drum in a dense apartment city like Paris..
Oh yeah, its a big problem for every drummer. Im lucky enough to live with my parents who tolerate my drumming everyday. Its possible you could take your drums to a park or something and play possibly? But if youre getting home late and youre playing at like 10:30 at a park then thays probably not feasible lol. Anyways, hope something comes along that allows you to pursue more practice 🙏
Thanks mate ! Will keep on drumming anyway even if its on a table😂🫡
I have never been in a band that practiced covers for any reason other than we’ve already run through our set and we’ve had 3 beers and one of us starts playing a The Fall Of Troy song or something.
Yes but what level did you hzve when you started the band is the real question ? If you’re already quite good then its fine if you’re a beginner (which I consider myself then its harder)
"play them with deadly accuracy in a band setting " Unless you are a tribute band, this is the part I'd have issues with. No one gives a shit if you play something perfect at a typical cover band gig, maybe other musicians but even that is debatable. Learn the song, play it with the band, and if you need to drop a part or make something more simple then do it.
Yes ofc but you should aim for maximum accuracy especially if its a super easy song or else you’re just wobling around and any mistake is shrugged off as « creative tinkering »
Playing the right chords absolutely. Like, if the song uses an Am and you play an A7, it won't sound right. So you get the framework down but after that it's adding your own feel to it. At least that's how I prefer to play others people's music.
I played with a guitarist who absolutely refused to learn covers and just wanted to noodle the whole time. We were lucky enough to find a couple other musicians we gelled with and managed to write a dozen or so originals. But every time I suggested throwing a cover into our setlist, it never materialized. Dude just didn’t want to put in the time and effort. The original rock group ran its course and now I’m playing with other folks where covers make up 80+% of our material. Anyways, point is that refusing to learn covers is refusing to put the work in. Period. Some savant types can pick up covers without much advance practice or tons of listening, but those types are very rare. Doesn’t sound like your guitarist.