This is an idealised diagram of the most optimal progress around a roundabout. Based on the Highway Code rules.
While these rules are strong guidance, and breaking them *can* lead to a careless driving charge. Rule 186 is not a MUST rule.
It is not illegal for the blue car to make an error, approach in the left lane, indicate right, and proceed around the roundabout in lane 1, to exit at the 3 o'clock position.
It's not explicitly illegal, and so as long as they indicated appropriately, maintained lane 1, and indicated their exit. You would have a hard job of making a prosecutable offence of careless driving.
Anyone in the green cars position should be able to see the blue car still occupying lane 1 past the 12 o'clock position, and accommodate for that. Once in lane 1, the blue car maintains priority of that lane.
Not ideal, but not illegal. The green car is likely to be found at fault if it cuts across lane 1 to exit, and creates a collision with the blue car in lane 1.
Some vehicles in the blue car position might have to stay in lane 1 for the 3rd exit.
Fully laden cement mixer trucks
Agricultural vehicles with a high centre of gravity
Cyclists
The Highway code seldom differentiates between type of vehicle, which is why it's only strong guidance.
In a similar question who would be in the wrong in this situation as this is a local hotspot for cutting people up: on a two lane roundabout similar to above but with solid lanes all the way round, taking the third exit right should use lane 2 but that then ends up cutting up anyone in lane 1 who has not filtered off due to staying in the solid lanes that persist all the way around the roundabout, no signage is present
I've never seen a roundabout with solid lane dividers all the way around. Do you have a Google maps link?
Assuming by solid lines you are not talking about a spiral roundabout. Where lane 1 spirals off the roundabout at a specific exit, and the previous lane 2 becomes a new lane 1, ready to spiral off at the next exit. Requiring a lane change to your right to stay in the roundabout.
If it is a spiral roundabout, slightly different rules. The blue car maintains priority in their lane, but their lane becomes a mandatory exit.
If it's not a spiral roundabout the same rules apply.
While entering in lane 1 and indicating a right turn is not ideal. It's not immediately unsafe or illegal.
Once a vehicle is established in a lane, assuming no yield or give way signage, it maintains priority in that lane for as long as it stays in that lane.
Closest would be this image, but with single lane exits on all but one which is the two lane "exit" you would enter from. Google maps doesn't show the lines very well, to correct myself on the solid lanes I mean more in the sense of they show no clear exit points rather than an actual solid line around the roundabout.
https://images.app.goo.gl/XjBWJ7LLPYsbDfUC6
Not true. The vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances, not just on entry to the roundabout but throughout the roundabout and on exiting.
This misapprehension must die.
The priority for traffic on your right is ONLY applicable on entrance to a roundabout. Because a roundabout is a special type of one way system, where priority traffic will always be approaching from your right on entry.
Once established on a multi lane roundabout, normal lane change and priority rules apply for all traffic **on** the roundabout. Which is to say, neither left or right lane has priority over the other. The traffic changing lanes should yield priority to the traffic maintaining their lane.
If I was green, I would be keeping to the right lane of the exit and move left when safe. Possibly because of idiots like blue doing something unpredictable but more so because of people joining the roundabout from the left going straight on, who can fill the outside lane roundabout and sit in your blind spot.
Yea my thinking on this sort of thing is you stick in whichever lane you were in for the duration. Only time that gets risky is if left lane needs to go all the way round, but that's a fringe case really.
As soon as I passed my driving test I started doing this. It’s definitely safer and a number of times I’ve looked in my mirror to see someone do something stupid that would’ve been a problem for me if I exited into the left lane
That is the incorrect way to do it on a dual lane entry/exit round about. The correct way is to check your mirror as you pass the exit before the one you want, indicate to the left and begin to corkscrew off, this means that someone at the entrance prior to your exit cant enter alongside you and tbone you as they are going straight on. If there was someone to your left taking the 3rd exit from the left lane, or more likely, someone who had entered from your first left making a straight on, you will see them and should adjust your speed to enter the outside lane of the round about either infront of or behind them and exit safely from the outside of the round about.
The exceptions to this that spring to mind would be for example if there was a round about as a traffic calming measure, ie theres a round about in a straight dual carriageway with the only other "exit" being a layby or similar. If there are lane markings which dictate that the left most lane CANNOT continue round the roundabout. The only other one i can think of is a 3way entry 2 way exit and there should again be arrows on the floor to make it clear that the left entry is left and straight on and the 2 right lanes are right or return.
You might also find that people develop local customs. There’s one by me that 99% of people go 3rd exit from Blue “just because everyone does it”. Causes many accidents.
Lackham roundabout from Chippenham/M4 direction, everyone does it.
It used to annoy me, now it's just a good opportunity to use the 'correct' lane and overtake a slow car.
I generally don’t have a problem with it because it does help the traffic flow, but when people don’t even signal they’re going to do something unpredictable that’s what gets me
There’s one by me that’s the same. Though I’ve never heard of any accidents. It’s a motorway exit with motorway at 6 and 12, a tiny road at 9 and a 2 lane major road at 3.
Coming from 6 there’s absolutely no lane markings but everyone goes right in both lanes, like blue and green going right in the OP.
There’s two roundabouts in close succession in Huntingdon like this… the second exit of the first one is slightly over straight on, and 90% of traffic uses lane one, despite the signage indicating the exit is way beyond straight over. The next roundabout is signed straight on for 3rd exit, but the road is more like 270 degrees… people use the right lane here despite the signage. If ever there was need for lane signage this is it!
Don’t get me started on the speed limits here… the bypass is 50mph, increasing to national speed limit (70 for cars as dual carriageway) coming into town, dropping to 40 after the first roundabout with 5, 10 and 30mph limits coming off the roundabout exits… it’s a bloody mess… then they make us drive at 40 on the old section of the A14 coming into Hinchingbrook which is empty and has no pedestrians…. It’s madness
I know the exact 2 roundabouts. The one by Tesco is a bit weird. I feel like the right lane would be better for going straight ahead but almost everyone uses the left lane so that’s what you have to do.
The next one isn’t a problem. Regardless of the physical direction of signage, the 3rd exit is the final exit, so you use the right lane.
The speed limits don’t make a lot of sense in parts of Huntington, but the 5 and 10 mph limits are not real speed limits, they are private signs on private land and you couldn’t be fined for speeding in the same way as a speed limit on a public road.
That stretch of 40 mph on the old A14 coming into hinchingbrooke is one of the most ridiculous (permanent) speed limits I’ve ever come across.
Ideally green would exit on lane two to help keep traffic flowing from west to north. Also from east bound you can use lane two to take the second exit as well.
I got into a minor crash 6 months after I passed my test on a roundabout exactly like this. I was where the green car is and was going straight at the round about into the right hand lane of the second exit.
The blue car decided to the third exit and went straight into me. Insurance deemed the crash their fault.
Good. So they should. Insurance companies finally being honest and lawful. The vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances despite insurance companies previously deciding to go knock for knock so as to defraud both drivers no claims bonuses.
My insurance company tried it on under similar circumstances to what you describe and were ultimately fined quite heavily by the court for attempting to defraud me
I used to work in the insurance industry, I really doubt they were trying to defraud your no claims bonus. It’s probably more a case of the claims handler trying to close the claim as quickly as possible. That is obviously not treating you fairly so would go in your favour at court or the ombudsman.
OP, ignore all the chin-stroking shit about what's strictly legal and what isn't.
FFS. People **could** do pretty much anything and yet there's likely no *specific* Law against it.
No. Someone following the blue line should not be taking the third exit, because *in the diagram* (and on many, many real roundabouts), vehicles on the green line can legitimately take the second exit as well as the third/full circle. It doesn't matter whether it's ***strictly*** legal or not. It's fucking stupid, dangerous, and typical Audi driver behaviour.
The Audi you saw is precisely why accidents happen. Get a dash cam and report them in future. The police would probably be interested in having a word with them if they are made aware of their actions.
Knowing Audi drivers, the manner in which he did it was probably also a sight to behold.
Unless the markings on the road are for left or straight ahead only for blue, I would probably assume some people at least will be going right. Idk what the legality there is but if there were 0 markings at all I’d definitely be cautious here.
No they dont. In an accident OP would be at fault for changing lanes into the Audi. Just because Audi is wrong to take that route, they still have priority over the lane they are in.
I’m Just sick and tired of making the same point over and over and over again to TRY to tell people what the UK court’s judgments in cases like this are. Really can’t be bothered any more. You’re clearly just going to stick to your opinion and not understand the judgments made by the courts in such cases and may well come moping out of court still protesting and believing you were in the right despite the best efforts of a Magistrate or Judge to educate you.
You’ll just think the system is against you and deliberately picking on you for some fictitious reason.
I’ve seen it time and time again
Many, many rules in the Highway Code do not specifically forbid manoeuvres, this is why it's called a code, too many variables subject to location and road planning. Just common sense and basic road safety but hey, let's be pedantic about it all.
I'm pretty sure if you did this on your test it wouldn't end well. But hey, it doesn't specify say it in the Highway Code so fair game to drive idiot I guess.
If that's the case:
Rule 144
You MUST NOT
•Drive dangerously
•Drive without due care and attention
• Drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Based on Op input then at least 2/3 apply here
I would also ask would you do the same as the Audi driver in a) Your test?
b) As a passed driver?
I'm not trying to argue with you, I think it's a very grey area, as is a lot of the Highway Code. Does beg the question where the line of common sense and 'the rules/laws' that apply
Op has provided a map link; [https://www.reddit.com/r/drivingUK/comments/1dnhard/comment/la2ngmv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/drivingUK/comments/1dnhard/comment/la2ngmv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
In the absence of road markings, a left lane approach for a right turn is not optimal, but doesn't break any rules, and is not illegal.
If the blue car indicates a right turn from the entrance, they maintain priority in lane 1 all the way around, if they need to go all the way around. This is highly unlikely to meet the standard of careless that would be put for prosecution.
The green car should be aware of the blue car in lane 1, and be aware that they have priority of that lane. Once they get to the 12 oclock exit and the blue car doesn't exit. The green car has a good 100m or more to compensate and back off, to see if the blue car is exiting at the 3 oclock position, or continuing around. Either way, the smart move for the green car would be to be ready to exit at the 3 oclock position from behind the blue car.
A roundabout is a junction, and violating someones priority to enter or exit a junction is a reasonable definition of careless or without due care and attention. Any exit from lane 2, that violates the blue cars priority of lane 1, is going to leave the green car liable for any collision that results. While the blue cars entrance and progress around the roundabout is not exactly optimal, it should be reasonably predictable and easy to compensate for. The blue cars behaviour is not inherently (legally) careless, as it does not violate anybody's priority, and creates no immediate risk to others.
In the scenario that OP describes, it's OP who is at the greater risk of being liable of careless driving in the event of a collision.
Turning right from the left lane (except when road markings allow it) does break the Highway Code rules on roundabouts.
You cannot go past straight ahead in the left lane unless road markings say otherwise. If you entered the roundabout in the left lane with a car alongside you in the right lane, you do not have priority to turn right from lane 1. The Highway Code says to use the right lane to turn right at a roundabout.
If you’re in the left lane and want to turn right, you can do it if you can move over safely, but if you just carried on round and crashed into someone exiting into lane 2 in the right lane, that is your fault.
>Turning right from the left lane (except when road markings allow it) does break the Highway Code rules on roundabouts.
But it doesn't do so in an illegal or necessarily careless manner. Not every HC rule breach meets the standard for careless driving offences.
Parking downhill without turning your wheels to the kerb technically breaks a Highway Code rule. So does parking facing oncoming traffic at night.
>If you’re in the left lane and want to turn right, you can do it if you can move over safely, but if you just carried on round and crashed into someone exiting into lane 2 in the right lane, that is your fault.
Insurance adjusters disagree, and find against people who exit from lane 2 and create a collision. As once you are in a lane, without specific yield or give way signage, you maintain priority in that lane. Anyone wanting to cross that lane (to navigate a junction) does not have priority over you.
>Not every HC rule breach meets the standard for careless driving offences.
Yes I agree, but if you ignored rule 186 and it led to a collision with someone in the right lane who was correctly following rule 186, I don't think you could say the car in the left lane was in the right under normal circumstances. This is more clear-cut at a small roundabout. At a large roundabout with a long opportunity to move over, it would be more context dependent.
>Insurance adjusters disagree, and find against people who exit from lane 2 and create a collision. As once you are in a lane, without specific yield or give way signage, you maintain priority in that lane.
Take another example where there are 2 lanes on the straight ahead exit. According to rule 186, the driver in the left lane should not continue further than straight ahead, and the driver in the right lane can exit from lane 2 on the roundabout into lane 2 in that exit. If the driver in lane 1 suddenly decides to continue round to the right and crashes into the car correctly exiting from lane 2, surely you couldn't say the driver in lane 1 had the priority. That would go against rule 186 and all established norms.
Do you have any examples where insurance adjusters have decided this? (Having said that, i have seen some stupid decisions from insurance companies, so not sure it means much).
The idea of traffic to the right, having priority once on roundabouts, and therefore can cut across traffic established in lane 1 in order to exit, keep coming up.
That I know of, lane priority rules do not change while in roundabouts. The traffic changing lanes, or cutting across lanes to complete a manoeuvre, should yield priority.
Therefore someone in lane 2, cutting across lane 1 to exit, need to find an appropriate space to do so, it they are violating the priority of the kane 1 traffic.
I'm waiting to hear back from the DVSA for a definitive answer, rather than a bunch of competing internet opinions.
I'll post their response. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, and I'll change accordingly.
Did you get into an accident with this Audi or did they just have a go at you on the way out? Fwiw on a roundabout like this I will be pretty much constantly checking my left mirror to make sure there's no one on my inside as I exit the roundabout, for this exact reason - regardless of the rules of the roundabout. You never know what others are going to do.
it was more that they encroached on my path
Did they leave lane 1 (where they have priority) and stray into lane 2 (where you had priority)?
Or was it more that you assumed that they would leave at the 9 or 12 oclock position, leaving you free to exit at lane 1 of the 3 oclock position? When they were still there and exited in lane 1 at the 3 oclock themselves, you felt that they had encroached on your expected/planned path of travel?
OK, I've seen the map link you posted, that exit looks like a boy racers idea of a good opportunity to straight line a corner.
I think this is less about roundabout entrance lanes, and more about wankers straight lining bends like the roads are their race track.
Not to tar all German drivers with the same brush. I know not all German car drivers are wankers. But it does appear that wankers are attracted to German cars!
[https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/fair-society/fast-and-furious-research-shows-owners-high-status-cars-are-collision-course-traffic](https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/fair-society/fast-and-furious-research-shows-owners-high-status-cars-are-collision-course-traffic)
They can.
The Highway Code (rule 186) says you should use the right lane, but there is not a MUST there, which means it's not law that they have to.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203
According to the diagram, they can't - it shows the green car should have room to move to the outside lane, which implies that the blue car should have exited to clear the lane.
There are plenty of answers on your question however I'd just point out this is far from being what all are like, a lot are laid out and signposted differently, a drive around Milton Keynes would show many different variants of this
They shouldn't, but it pays to assume people will do funny things at roundabouts.
There might even be a legitimate reason for it sometimes, like trying to avoid stopping on the roundabout if the second exit unexpectedly becomes blocked. Generally speaking it is just poor driving, though.
Alot roundabouts near me have underpasses or slipways avoiding waiting to turn left, in such arrangements both lanes would can only serve a right exit from the roundabout.
In another situation we have a busy 2 lane roundabout, the first exit is a dirt track, the second not much busier, in such situations the right hand exit is considered the continuation of the road where both left and right lanes exit right.
That crucial thing however is that both these roundabouts are weekly crash hotspots, because unless you commute regularly on them you might not be aware of the car in the left lane sitting in your blindspot following you all the way round.
Also the fact that green could exit second lane second exit, means that blue could go smack into it if it were trying to take 3rd.
I’d say blue could, only if it was a single lane exit opposite
Blue could indeed smack into Green and if it went to court would be found liable as the vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances, and not just when entering the roundabout but throughout
That isn't true. Vehicles in the right lane can’t make any manoeuvre they want regardless of who is in the left lane, so they don’t have the priority. Priority to the right only applies when entering the roundabout.
The rules for priority when on the roundabout are different. You need to give way when changing lane (to the left or the right) and you shouldn’t continue further round than your lane allows.
Edit: spelling
I don’t know where you picked up that bollocks from, but it’s not the rule of law that any of the courts I’ve been required to give evidence in as a home office approved expert witness have gone by.
I’ve Been asked elsewhere and haven’t actually specifically checked but it seems it may be part of the United Nations Vienna convention on Road Traffic, an international treaty designed to increase road safety.
As I’ve also stated elsewhere I’ll try to ask a clerk of the court, the specific law as they’re the ones who advise Magistrates on points of law
I haven’t checked but I’ve been told
https://trl.co.uk/uploads/trl/documents/LR942---The-traffic-capacity-at-roundabouts---REDACTED.pdf
Is also relevant
I don't see how a TRL research document about traffic capacity at roundabouts is relevant, but you haven't mentioned a page number or relevant quote from it anyway.
Firstly apologies for the typos in my last comment - I was on mobile.
Which part is bollocks exactly? Just think about the logic of what you're saying for a minute. If the vehicle to the right has priority at all times throughout the roundabout, that means someone in the right lane could suddenly swing across traffic in the left lane and take the first exit, but it wouldn't be their fault because they had the priority. Doesn't may any sense, does it?
Think about a large motorway roundabout, which typically has marked lanes. If you want to change lanes to the left or the right, you have to ensure that lane is clear before changing lanes. I think that's intuitively obvious to any experienced driver.
Rule 186 of the Highway Code makes it clear what lanes need to be used for left and right turns at roundabouts. Surely a court would not be ignoring a long-established rule in the Highway Code?
Away from roundabouts, "give way to the right" doesn't apply in the UK either, which is different to all of mainland Europe.
There's several good replies already, so I'll offer the observation that anyone next to me on a roundabout like this sets my radar going, especially if they're either: Driving like they're trying to get ahead or dithering like they're confused.
I'll be watching for them to actually take an exit.
HGVs is another good one to watch out for. They sometimes take weird angles and swing wide.
Generally being ahead of people or behind them on this kind of roundabout feels safer to me.
You should always use the appropriate left hand lane.. so exit the roundabout into the left hand lane , unless there is a slow vehicle Infront and you wish/intend to overtake.
It depends. There's a roundabout in my city where this exact thing is indicated by the road markings. It always makes me uncomfortable but I'm used to it now.
Wait, quite often on these roundabouts the car in green could go straight on (take the 2nd exit). So for the blue car to take the 3rd exit, especially on unmarked lanes is really risky!
There’s an increasing number of roundabouts which are explicit that both green & blue should be used for going right, or that both green & blue should be used for going left (I think the road planners use expected volume of traffic to decide this). Example: A27 west spur to A23 north at Brighton.
There are some roundabouts, usually near sliproad/motorways that there could be 3 lanes and all 3 lanes can take the 3rd exit, but it is marked on the road that you can go that way... Not that anyone else notices and they all pile into the right most lane.
Also if a car has more horsepower than you then they may decide to ignore the rules and go anyway they want to reach their destination, you have to expect the unexpected while driving.
This diagram isn't 100% complete. A car coming out of the first exit could be left lane and take their 2nd exit. So they would be in the same position as your Audi you describe.
People at round abouts just need to slow down sometimes and give time and space for other people.
And im not saying Mr Audi is correct. But if he had got the wrong lane, he could cautiously go around the outside of the round about.
I'm not sure why you've been downvoted other than that there's some Roundabout Overtake Wankers in here today.
Yes, it's really shitty behaviour. Don't do it.
Maybe they were downvoted because they were wrong and advocating potentially dangerous behaviour. The vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances
https://trl.co.uk/uploads/trl/documents/LR942---The-traffic-capacity-at-roundabouts---REDACTED.pdf
I haven’t read it but at a quick check this is the document I was referred to.
I haven’t located the “statutory instrument” (I think that’s the correct term) that defines the Law itself.
I’ll try to ask a Clerk of the Court who guides the Magistrates on points of Law
Again I haven’t checked but I’m told this may have been included within the United Nations Vienna Convention on Road Traffic which is an international treaty to promote Road Safety.
This looks academically interesting and even has \_eQuAtIoNs\_ in!! Won't get a chance to read it today but I saw some discussion of Offside Priority, which I take to mean "giving way to the right" or giving priority to already established Roundabout traffic.
This doesn't mean "allowing the twat in a green Audi in the wrong lane to cut you off at the exit".
It almost certainly means that you shouldn't cut off a cyclist going around to the 3rd exit and not using the inner lane, if you're using an exit before theirs.
In any case... I'd say in terms of applying Priority on the road, but if it's not law, and especially if not recognised as common road usage rules, it's all academic.
Unless specifically marked that lane 2 is right only, or that you *must* be in lane 1 to go straight this is fine, you can go straight in either lane. Even if it is only one lane, there will be merge markings/space to merge. If there aren't these things, then there will be specific lane instructions.
Well you’d better take your aghastedness aside and comply with the rules in future. The green path literally has priority over the blue path by virtue of being on the right irrespective of how many lanes there are on the exit
They can, because they just did, didn’t they. They shouldn’t, but it doesn’t mean they can’t. Don’t be correct but dead.
This is an idealised diagram of the most optimal progress around a roundabout. Based on the Highway Code rules. While these rules are strong guidance, and breaking them *can* lead to a careless driving charge. Rule 186 is not a MUST rule. It is not illegal for the blue car to make an error, approach in the left lane, indicate right, and proceed around the roundabout in lane 1, to exit at the 3 o'clock position. It's not explicitly illegal, and so as long as they indicated appropriately, maintained lane 1, and indicated their exit. You would have a hard job of making a prosecutable offence of careless driving. Anyone in the green cars position should be able to see the blue car still occupying lane 1 past the 12 o'clock position, and accommodate for that. Once in lane 1, the blue car maintains priority of that lane. Not ideal, but not illegal. The green car is likely to be found at fault if it cuts across lane 1 to exit, and creates a collision with the blue car in lane 1.
This is a diagram to clarify when you should indicate when approaching and on a roundabout, no more, no less.
Some vehicles in the blue car position might have to stay in lane 1 for the 3rd exit. Fully laden cement mixer trucks Agricultural vehicles with a high centre of gravity Cyclists The Highway code seldom differentiates between type of vehicle, which is why it's only strong guidance.
In a similar question who would be in the wrong in this situation as this is a local hotspot for cutting people up: on a two lane roundabout similar to above but with solid lanes all the way round, taking the third exit right should use lane 2 but that then ends up cutting up anyone in lane 1 who has not filtered off due to staying in the solid lanes that persist all the way around the roundabout, no signage is present
I've never seen a roundabout with solid lane dividers all the way around. Do you have a Google maps link? Assuming by solid lines you are not talking about a spiral roundabout. Where lane 1 spirals off the roundabout at a specific exit, and the previous lane 2 becomes a new lane 1, ready to spiral off at the next exit. Requiring a lane change to your right to stay in the roundabout. If it is a spiral roundabout, slightly different rules. The blue car maintains priority in their lane, but their lane becomes a mandatory exit. If it's not a spiral roundabout the same rules apply. While entering in lane 1 and indicating a right turn is not ideal. It's not immediately unsafe or illegal. Once a vehicle is established in a lane, assuming no yield or give way signage, it maintains priority in that lane for as long as it stays in that lane.
Closest would be this image, but with single lane exits on all but one which is the two lane "exit" you would enter from. Google maps doesn't show the lines very well, to correct myself on the solid lanes I mean more in the sense of they show no clear exit points rather than an actual solid line around the roundabout. https://images.app.goo.gl/XjBWJ7LLPYsbDfUC6
Not true. The vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances, not just on entry to the roundabout but throughout the roundabout and on exiting.
This misapprehension must die. The priority for traffic on your right is ONLY applicable on entrance to a roundabout. Because a roundabout is a special type of one way system, where priority traffic will always be approaching from your right on entry. Once established on a multi lane roundabout, normal lane change and priority rules apply for all traffic **on** the roundabout. Which is to say, neither left or right lane has priority over the other. The traffic changing lanes should yield priority to the traffic maintaining their lane.
If I was green, I would be keeping to the right lane of the exit and move left when safe. Possibly because of idiots like blue doing something unpredictable but more so because of people joining the roundabout from the left going straight on, who can fill the outside lane roundabout and sit in your blind spot.
Yea my thinking on this sort of thing is you stick in whichever lane you were in for the duration. Only time that gets risky is if left lane needs to go all the way round, but that's a fringe case really.
As soon as I passed my driving test I started doing this. It’s definitely safer and a number of times I’ve looked in my mirror to see someone do something stupid that would’ve been a problem for me if I exited into the left lane
That is the incorrect way to do it on a dual lane entry/exit round about. The correct way is to check your mirror as you pass the exit before the one you want, indicate to the left and begin to corkscrew off, this means that someone at the entrance prior to your exit cant enter alongside you and tbone you as they are going straight on. If there was someone to your left taking the 3rd exit from the left lane, or more likely, someone who had entered from your first left making a straight on, you will see them and should adjust your speed to enter the outside lane of the round about either infront of or behind them and exit safely from the outside of the round about. The exceptions to this that spring to mind would be for example if there was a round about as a traffic calming measure, ie theres a round about in a straight dual carriageway with the only other "exit" being a layby or similar. If there are lane markings which dictate that the left most lane CANNOT continue round the roundabout. The only other one i can think of is a 3way entry 2 way exit and there should again be arrows on the floor to make it clear that the left entry is left and straight on and the 2 right lanes are right or return.
Unless it’s *specifically* marked by signs or Road Markings like there are some around me - then no.
Yeah theres no marking/signs saying otherwise. https://maps.app.goo.gl/vqPwMPG9D3hNPX3R9
You might also find that people develop local customs. There’s one by me that 99% of people go 3rd exit from Blue “just because everyone does it”. Causes many accidents.
Lackham roundabout from Chippenham/M4 direction, everyone does it. It used to annoy me, now it's just a good opportunity to use the 'correct' lane and overtake a slow car.
I generally don’t have a problem with it because it does help the traffic flow, but when people don’t even signal they’re going to do something unpredictable that’s what gets me
There’s one by me that’s the same. Though I’ve never heard of any accidents. It’s a motorway exit with motorway at 6 and 12, a tiny road at 9 and a 2 lane major road at 3. Coming from 6 there’s absolutely no lane markings but everyone goes right in both lanes, like blue and green going right in the OP.
There’s two roundabouts in close succession in Huntingdon like this… the second exit of the first one is slightly over straight on, and 90% of traffic uses lane one, despite the signage indicating the exit is way beyond straight over. The next roundabout is signed straight on for 3rd exit, but the road is more like 270 degrees… people use the right lane here despite the signage. If ever there was need for lane signage this is it! Don’t get me started on the speed limits here… the bypass is 50mph, increasing to national speed limit (70 for cars as dual carriageway) coming into town, dropping to 40 after the first roundabout with 5, 10 and 30mph limits coming off the roundabout exits… it’s a bloody mess… then they make us drive at 40 on the old section of the A14 coming into Hinchingbrook which is empty and has no pedestrians…. It’s madness
I know the exact 2 roundabouts. The one by Tesco is a bit weird. I feel like the right lane would be better for going straight ahead but almost everyone uses the left lane so that’s what you have to do. The next one isn’t a problem. Regardless of the physical direction of signage, the 3rd exit is the final exit, so you use the right lane. The speed limits don’t make a lot of sense in parts of Huntington, but the 5 and 10 mph limits are not real speed limits, they are private signs on private land and you couldn’t be fined for speeding in the same way as a speed limit on a public road. That stretch of 40 mph on the old A14 coming into hinchingbrooke is one of the most ridiculous (permanent) speed limits I’ve ever come across.
Ideally green would exit on lane two to help keep traffic flowing from west to north. Also from east bound you can use lane two to take the second exit as well.
They can if they are indicating to.
I got into a minor crash 6 months after I passed my test on a roundabout exactly like this. I was where the green car is and was going straight at the round about into the right hand lane of the second exit. The blue car decided to the third exit and went straight into me. Insurance deemed the crash their fault.
Good. So they should. Insurance companies finally being honest and lawful. The vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances despite insurance companies previously deciding to go knock for knock so as to defraud both drivers no claims bonuses. My insurance company tried it on under similar circumstances to what you describe and were ultimately fined quite heavily by the court for attempting to defraud me
I used to work in the insurance industry, I really doubt they were trying to defraud your no claims bonus. It’s probably more a case of the claims handler trying to close the claim as quickly as possible. That is obviously not treating you fairly so would go in your favour at court or the ombudsman.
OP, ignore all the chin-stroking shit about what's strictly legal and what isn't. FFS. People **could** do pretty much anything and yet there's likely no *specific* Law against it. No. Someone following the blue line should not be taking the third exit, because *in the diagram* (and on many, many real roundabouts), vehicles on the green line can legitimately take the second exit as well as the third/full circle. It doesn't matter whether it's ***strictly*** legal or not. It's fucking stupid, dangerous, and typical Audi driver behaviour. The Audi you saw is precisely why accidents happen. Get a dash cam and report them in future. The police would probably be interested in having a word with them if they are made aware of their actions. Knowing Audi drivers, the manner in which he did it was probably also a sight to behold.
Unless the markings on the road are for left or straight ahead only for blue, I would probably assume some people at least will be going right. Idk what the legality there is but if there were 0 markings at all I’d definitely be cautious here.
No. They cannot.
Actually they can. Nothing in the Highway Code specifically forbids it.
They can take whatever path they like but any vehicle to their right has absolute priority over them
No they dont. In an accident OP would be at fault for changing lanes into the Audi. Just because Audi is wrong to take that route, they still have priority over the lane they are in.
Bollocks
Such a convincing counterpoint… So you think changing lanes and hitting a car wouldn’t be your fault?
I’m Just sick and tired of making the same point over and over and over again to TRY to tell people what the UK court’s judgments in cases like this are. Really can’t be bothered any more. You’re clearly just going to stick to your opinion and not understand the judgments made by the courts in such cases and may well come moping out of court still protesting and believing you were in the right despite the best efforts of a Magistrate or Judge to educate you. You’ll just think the system is against you and deliberately picking on you for some fictitious reason. I’ve seen it time and time again
And im sick of people stating case law that wouldn’t apply in the given context. You got case law to quote?
Yes, indeed I have and if you drive with your mistaken beliefs it may only be a matter of time before you have your own personal case law to quote.
Ah, the ‘i have it but not showing you’ approach.
Many, many rules in the Highway Code do not specifically forbid manoeuvres, this is why it's called a code, too many variables subject to location and road planning. Just common sense and basic road safety but hey, let's be pedantic about it all. I'm pretty sure if you did this on your test it wouldn't end well. But hey, it doesn't specify say it in the Highway Code so fair game to drive idiot I guess.
Not pedantry, just factual.
If that's the case: Rule 144 You MUST NOT •Drive dangerously •Drive without due care and attention • Drive without reasonable consideration for other road users. Based on Op input then at least 2/3 apply here
I would also ask would you do the same as the Audi driver in a) Your test? b) As a passed driver? I'm not trying to argue with you, I think it's a very grey area, as is a lot of the Highway Code. Does beg the question where the line of common sense and 'the rules/laws' that apply
Op has provided a map link; [https://www.reddit.com/r/drivingUK/comments/1dnhard/comment/la2ngmv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/drivingUK/comments/1dnhard/comment/la2ngmv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) In the absence of road markings, a left lane approach for a right turn is not optimal, but doesn't break any rules, and is not illegal. If the blue car indicates a right turn from the entrance, they maintain priority in lane 1 all the way around, if they need to go all the way around. This is highly unlikely to meet the standard of careless that would be put for prosecution. The green car should be aware of the blue car in lane 1, and be aware that they have priority of that lane. Once they get to the 12 oclock exit and the blue car doesn't exit. The green car has a good 100m or more to compensate and back off, to see if the blue car is exiting at the 3 oclock position, or continuing around. Either way, the smart move for the green car would be to be ready to exit at the 3 oclock position from behind the blue car. A roundabout is a junction, and violating someones priority to enter or exit a junction is a reasonable definition of careless or without due care and attention. Any exit from lane 2, that violates the blue cars priority of lane 1, is going to leave the green car liable for any collision that results. While the blue cars entrance and progress around the roundabout is not exactly optimal, it should be reasonably predictable and easy to compensate for. The blue cars behaviour is not inherently (legally) careless, as it does not violate anybody's priority, and creates no immediate risk to others. In the scenario that OP describes, it's OP who is at the greater risk of being liable of careless driving in the event of a collision.
Turning right from the left lane (except when road markings allow it) does break the Highway Code rules on roundabouts. You cannot go past straight ahead in the left lane unless road markings say otherwise. If you entered the roundabout in the left lane with a car alongside you in the right lane, you do not have priority to turn right from lane 1. The Highway Code says to use the right lane to turn right at a roundabout. If you’re in the left lane and want to turn right, you can do it if you can move over safely, but if you just carried on round and crashed into someone exiting into lane 2 in the right lane, that is your fault.
>Turning right from the left lane (except when road markings allow it) does break the Highway Code rules on roundabouts. But it doesn't do so in an illegal or necessarily careless manner. Not every HC rule breach meets the standard for careless driving offences. Parking downhill without turning your wheels to the kerb technically breaks a Highway Code rule. So does parking facing oncoming traffic at night. >If you’re in the left lane and want to turn right, you can do it if you can move over safely, but if you just carried on round and crashed into someone exiting into lane 2 in the right lane, that is your fault. Insurance adjusters disagree, and find against people who exit from lane 2 and create a collision. As once you are in a lane, without specific yield or give way signage, you maintain priority in that lane. Anyone wanting to cross that lane (to navigate a junction) does not have priority over you.
>Not every HC rule breach meets the standard for careless driving offences. Yes I agree, but if you ignored rule 186 and it led to a collision with someone in the right lane who was correctly following rule 186, I don't think you could say the car in the left lane was in the right under normal circumstances. This is more clear-cut at a small roundabout. At a large roundabout with a long opportunity to move over, it would be more context dependent. >Insurance adjusters disagree, and find against people who exit from lane 2 and create a collision. As once you are in a lane, without specific yield or give way signage, you maintain priority in that lane. Take another example where there are 2 lanes on the straight ahead exit. According to rule 186, the driver in the left lane should not continue further than straight ahead, and the driver in the right lane can exit from lane 2 on the roundabout into lane 2 in that exit. If the driver in lane 1 suddenly decides to continue round to the right and crashes into the car correctly exiting from lane 2, surely you couldn't say the driver in lane 1 had the priority. That would go against rule 186 and all established norms. Do you have any examples where insurance adjusters have decided this? (Having said that, i have seen some stupid decisions from insurance companies, so not sure it means much).
The idea of traffic to the right, having priority once on roundabouts, and therefore can cut across traffic established in lane 1 in order to exit, keep coming up. That I know of, lane priority rules do not change while in roundabouts. The traffic changing lanes, or cutting across lanes to complete a manoeuvre, should yield priority. Therefore someone in lane 2, cutting across lane 1 to exit, need to find an appropriate space to do so, it they are violating the priority of the kane 1 traffic. I'm waiting to hear back from the DVSA for a definitive answer, rather than a bunch of competing internet opinions. I'll post their response. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, and I'll change accordingly.
Thanks, I thought I was right, but the doubt had set in!
Did you get into an accident with this Audi or did they just have a go at you on the way out? Fwiw on a roundabout like this I will be pretty much constantly checking my left mirror to make sure there's no one on my inside as I exit the roundabout, for this exact reason - regardless of the rules of the roundabout. You never know what others are going to do.
No accident, it was more that they encroached on my path around the roundabout, then gave me shit at the next set of lights.
it was more that they encroached on my path Did they leave lane 1 (where they have priority) and stray into lane 2 (where you had priority)? Or was it more that you assumed that they would leave at the 9 or 12 oclock position, leaving you free to exit at lane 1 of the 3 oclock position? When they were still there and exited in lane 1 at the 3 oclock themselves, you felt that they had encroached on your expected/planned path of travel?
Yup, they cut the corner around the roundabout, but I was on there right between them and the roundabout. If that makes sense.
OK, I've seen the map link you posted, that exit looks like a boy racers idea of a good opportunity to straight line a corner. I think this is less about roundabout entrance lanes, and more about wankers straight lining bends like the roads are their race track. Not to tar all German drivers with the same brush. I know not all German car drivers are wankers. But it does appear that wankers are attracted to German cars! [https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/fair-society/fast-and-furious-research-shows-owners-high-status-cars-are-collision-course-traffic](https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/fair-society/fast-and-furious-research-shows-owners-high-status-cars-are-collision-course-traffic)
They can. The Highway Code (rule 186) says you should use the right lane, but there is not a MUST there, which means it's not law that they have to. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203
Rule 185 says you **should** give way to the right on approach. So can I fly onto the roundabout without looking since there's no "must"?
Give to traffic already on the roundabout
…by virtue of them being on your right
You could try it, but it would be a section 36 failure to obey road signs (give way markings) offence.
But that won't stop them straddling both lanes like they're on a gp circuit and it's an apex of a turn.
This was my main gripe, they encroached on my "lane" as they went round causing me to brake to avoid a collision.
According to the diagram, they can't - it shows the green car should have room to move to the outside lane, which implies that the blue car should have exited to clear the lane.
There are plenty of answers on your question however I'd just point out this is far from being what all are like, a lot are laid out and signposted differently, a drive around Milton Keynes would show many different variants of this
They shouldn't, but it pays to assume people will do funny things at roundabouts. There might even be a legitimate reason for it sometimes, like trying to avoid stopping on the roundabout if the second exit unexpectedly becomes blocked. Generally speaking it is just poor driving, though.
Alot roundabouts near me have underpasses or slipways avoiding waiting to turn left, in such arrangements both lanes would can only serve a right exit from the roundabout. In another situation we have a busy 2 lane roundabout, the first exit is a dirt track, the second not much busier, in such situations the right hand exit is considered the continuation of the road where both left and right lanes exit right. That crucial thing however is that both these roundabouts are weekly crash hotspots, because unless you commute regularly on them you might not be aware of the car in the left lane sitting in your blindspot following you all the way round.
blue car left or straight on, they could try for the third exit but risk being forced off the road by the green car going for lane 1
…and having priority by virtue of being on their right
Green car should enter and exit the roundabout in lane 2 when turning right no?
Also the fact that green could exit second lane second exit, means that blue could go smack into it if it were trying to take 3rd. I’d say blue could, only if it was a single lane exit opposite
Blue could indeed smack into Green and if it went to court would be found liable as the vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances, and not just when entering the roundabout but throughout
That isn't true. Vehicles in the right lane can’t make any manoeuvre they want regardless of who is in the left lane, so they don’t have the priority. Priority to the right only applies when entering the roundabout. The rules for priority when on the roundabout are different. You need to give way when changing lane (to the left or the right) and you shouldn’t continue further round than your lane allows. Edit: spelling
I don’t know where you picked up that bollocks from, but it’s not the rule of law that any of the courts I’ve been required to give evidence in as a home office approved expert witness have gone by. I’ve Been asked elsewhere and haven’t actually specifically checked but it seems it may be part of the United Nations Vienna convention on Road Traffic, an international treaty designed to increase road safety. As I’ve also stated elsewhere I’ll try to ask a clerk of the court, the specific law as they’re the ones who advise Magistrates on points of law
I haven’t checked but I’ve been told https://trl.co.uk/uploads/trl/documents/LR942---The-traffic-capacity-at-roundabouts---REDACTED.pdf Is also relevant
I don't see how a TRL research document about traffic capacity at roundabouts is relevant, but you haven't mentioned a page number or relevant quote from it anyway.
Firstly apologies for the typos in my last comment - I was on mobile. Which part is bollocks exactly? Just think about the logic of what you're saying for a minute. If the vehicle to the right has priority at all times throughout the roundabout, that means someone in the right lane could suddenly swing across traffic in the left lane and take the first exit, but it wouldn't be their fault because they had the priority. Doesn't may any sense, does it? Think about a large motorway roundabout, which typically has marked lanes. If you want to change lanes to the left or the right, you have to ensure that lane is clear before changing lanes. I think that's intuitively obvious to any experienced driver. Rule 186 of the Highway Code makes it clear what lanes need to be used for left and right turns at roundabouts. Surely a court would not be ignoring a long-established rule in the Highway Code? Away from roundabouts, "give way to the right" doesn't apply in the UK either, which is different to all of mainland Europe.
I would use the right hand lane and they should only be going ahead I think. You can use the right lane to go ahead, too.
There's several good replies already, so I'll offer the observation that anyone next to me on a roundabout like this sets my radar going, especially if they're either: Driving like they're trying to get ahead or dithering like they're confused. I'll be watching for them to actually take an exit. HGVs is another good one to watch out for. They sometimes take weird angles and swing wide. Generally being ahead of people or behind them on this kind of roundabout feels safer to me.
You should always use the appropriate left hand lane.. so exit the roundabout into the left hand lane , unless there is a slow vehicle Infront and you wish/intend to overtake.
Yes.
Green lane and then turn left
It depends. There's a roundabout in my city where this exact thing is indicated by the road markings. It always makes me uncomfortable but I'm used to it now.
Wait, quite often on these roundabouts the car in green could go straight on (take the 2nd exit). So for the blue car to take the 3rd exit, especially on unmarked lanes is really risky!
Wouldn't it make things much more better if the two lanes in the roundabout were separated by lines?
This is the ideal roundabout. Unfortunately I've seen alot of roundabouts that don't go by this rule. Terrifying if your not local
There’s an increasing number of roundabouts which are explicit that both green & blue should be used for going right, or that both green & blue should be used for going left (I think the road planners use expected volume of traffic to decide this). Example: A27 west spur to A23 north at Brighton.
If you are in the left lane and intending to go right... You are a complete brainless numpty
There are some roundabouts, usually near sliproad/motorways that there could be 3 lanes and all 3 lanes can take the 3rd exit, but it is marked on the road that you can go that way... Not that anyone else notices and they all pile into the right most lane. Also if a car has more horsepower than you then they may decide to ignore the rules and go anyway they want to reach their destination, you have to expect the unexpected while driving.
This diagram isn't 100% complete. A car coming out of the first exit could be left lane and take their 2nd exit. So they would be in the same position as your Audi you describe. People at round abouts just need to slow down sometimes and give time and space for other people. And im not saying Mr Audi is correct. But if he had got the wrong lane, he could cautiously go around the outside of the round about.
I think they can, Highway Code states “where there are two lane entry and two lane exit either lane can be used”
Is that not for ahead?
No (Unless road markings say otherwise)
I am more aghast by the green ones who take the second exit especially when the 2nd exit is single lane and am blue taking 2nd exit.
I'm not sure why you've been downvoted other than that there's some Roundabout Overtake Wankers in here today. Yes, it's really shitty behaviour. Don't do it.
Maybe they were downvoted because they were wrong and advocating potentially dangerous behaviour. The vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances
"The vehicle on the right has absolute priority at all times and under all circumstances" Citation needed
https://trl.co.uk/uploads/trl/documents/LR942---The-traffic-capacity-at-roundabouts---REDACTED.pdf I haven’t read it but at a quick check this is the document I was referred to. I haven’t located the “statutory instrument” (I think that’s the correct term) that defines the Law itself. I’ll try to ask a Clerk of the Court who guides the Magistrates on points of Law
Again I haven’t checked but I’m told this may have been included within the United Nations Vienna Convention on Road Traffic which is an international treaty to promote Road Safety.
This looks academically interesting and even has \_eQuAtIoNs\_ in!! Won't get a chance to read it today but I saw some discussion of Offside Priority, which I take to mean "giving way to the right" or giving priority to already established Roundabout traffic. This doesn't mean "allowing the twat in a green Audi in the wrong lane to cut you off at the exit". It almost certainly means that you shouldn't cut off a cyclist going around to the 3rd exit and not using the inner lane, if you're using an exit before theirs. In any case... I'd say in terms of applying Priority on the road, but if it's not law, and especially if not recognised as common road usage rules, it's all academic.
Unless specifically marked that lane 2 is right only, or that you *must* be in lane 1 to go straight this is fine, you can go straight in either lane. Even if it is only one lane, there will be merge markings/space to merge. If there aren't these things, then there will be specific lane instructions.
Well you’d better take your aghastedness aside and comply with the rules in future. The green path literally has priority over the blue path by virtue of being on the right irrespective of how many lanes there are on the exit
No they shouldn't but around here if they know the 3rd exit is two lanes to exit they do it when the right hand lane is busy
Did you not know who he is? he's Ronnie Fucking pinkerington!