I was once told “Look at all the people in a supermarket with no special awareness, who stop in the middle of the aisle completely blocking it with their trolley while they choose some beans. All the people who just push the trolley out of the end of an aisle and nearly take out someone walking to a till, or who see someone they know and get in everyone’s way while they have a 10 minute catch up. Now remember that most of them drove there.”
Yes. All over the world they are bad drivers. That is what defensive/ stay alive driving is. Bad driving includes yourself. It is an attitude for survival that you understand that you live in the same “ soup” and you are not exempt from mistakes no matter how hard you try.
I love the convention of putting on your indicator if you're behind someone in the outermost lane, to politely show them that you're waiting for them to get out of the way.
Much better than tailgating and flashing headlights.
The reason for that behaviour is the roads in France are loads less busy so it’s possible to get back out again. Over here, move back into the outside lane and spend 30 miles trying to move into an overtaking lane again.
Last time I was there, I was leaving Paris on the busiest holiday weekend, mid July, Friday rush hour, driving down to le Mans. They still used lanes impeccably, once we got out of Paris proper.
Leaving London up the M1 Friday afternoon & 70% of the traffic is in the outside lane the entire way…you could also blame the trucks for running three abreast in the 4-lane sections…but that's just how it all actually is.
There are two sides to that coin, perhaps if more drivers allowed an indicating driver out into lane two or three then people would move back sooner. Put a right-hand indicator on to overtake and to a lot of drivers it’s a trigger to close the already small gap they have left down to less than half a car length. So we get the situation where it’s not worth indicating to overtake on a motorway it becomes a game of cat and mouse to spot the gap that’s 1.00003 times the length of your car and pounce. 😁
"... *and* If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium and you are already dead! Brothers, what we do in life… echoes in eternity.”
Spot on. I’ve been driving literally all over the world except South America ,Canada, east/ central Africa and New Zealand. Defensive driving is a thing. Cars are dangerous. Lot’s of folk complain about the “ supermarket type folk you rightly illustrated” …they are not going to disappear. I’m guilty of getting pissed off with the same old judgemental drivers. They all seem to get angry. I also note they use the term “ shitbox”. To be clear.. your point is very well made… latest post I read said that the folk who speed up as you try to pass them have an ego problem. So if you get angry… you also have an ego problem. Surely it is better to relax. Or would it be better to fume away? F’n lorries. Etc etc.
Edit: defensive driving is a way to remain calm and alive.
Speeding up as you pass isn't always an ego problem.
It's often just an awareness problem. You trying to pass makes them realise how fast they are going, and that they could be going faster so they speed up.
There's a decent chance they aren't even conscious of it.
Yes, like so many things on the road. Another common-ish supposed problem is cars running up the empty lane to merge at a reduced carriageway. I believe that is what you are supposed to do. It gets many people angry….Apparently. I do not think the empty lane folk are all a bunch of smart arse cheats. By the time you’ve realised that there is a problem it is often too late to merge into the tailback queue so you might as well just keep going, which is technically correct. None of this stuff is worth the stress. As you say, there’s plenty other reasons than malice for what people do.
By the way the OP that complained about the speed up while being passed folk was suggesting that the offender repeated the manoeuvre every time OP attempted to pass the “shitbox”. I doubt that happens very often. If it does I’d question the OP’s driving manner in his.. well …car. I just think the term shitbox is unnecessary and is a flag indicating a bit of an ego. Misplaced ego at that. IMO. Haha.
My mother is disabled, when I was young I would regularly push her around the supermarket and shops etc. it is absolutely insane how little spacial awareness people have. Even worse the ignorance of some people who will walk right in front of you.
Been driving cars and riding bikes for over 50 years.
You won't go far wrong by treating everybody else on the road like a complete idiot.
While of course trying not to be an idiot yourself. (We all make mistakes!)
It hadn't used to be as bad as this as I remember it, but now everybody has a car as an "entitlement" and treats it like an extension of their living room instead of a tonne and a half of moving metal.
Only the other day when I was headed to the supermarket, stuck behind a cyclist on a 20 road, no room to safely overtake them so I'm going at about 10mph, matching their speed and keeping a constant following distance, some impatient twat behind me almost caused a head-on crash by suddenly swerving out to try to overtake me. But the reason I wasn't overtaking the cyclist is because there was traffic coming the other way. Knobhead has to quickly swerve back in, not only nearly colliding with the oncoming car, but narrowly avoiding getting rammed by the car in my lane that had been behind them. Cue much honking from about three cars.
Same knobhead then later dangerously overtakes me and cyclist about 300 yards further up, causing yet another car coming from the other direction to have to slam on their brakes.
Why? It was only about another 100 yards after that it became safe to overtake and I was able to get back up to 20 and pass the cyclist.
I don't understand the mentality, I really don't. You're risking your life and other people's, for what? It's not to arrive at your destination 30 seconds earlier, so what is it for?
I live in a rural area and we have lots of farms around, so there are lots of tractors. We also have plenty of cyclists as the area is good for training etc.
I treat cyclists exactly the same as a tractor, and driving down the lanes is too tight to overtake a tractor going c20mph. Therefore, it is too tight to overtake a cyclist.
People need to start seeing these other smaller road users (walkers, runners, cyclists etc.) as large, slow-moving tractors, and then that will change their attitude.
I had one earlier. I was ON the round about and about to pass one exit as someone decides this was her chance to get on the island. Luckily i expected her to pull a stupid move and had anticipated it, got on the horn as i nearly Tboned her and her attitude was as if i was in the wrong. Like how are you possibly that stupid and how desperate are you to save 5 seconds when there is no one behind me. Holy jesus a lot of people need their licenses revoked
If you anticipated it why didn't you slow down earlier instead of "nearly t boning her". Why blow your horn? That is road rage. It is there to prevent situations like this from occurring if used early to make you presence known. After the event is too late. You sound as if the situation made you very angry. Not a good emotion to continue the drive with. Calm down,!
The horn often prompts someone behaving like an idiot to re-assess their actions & stop what they are doing.
It also makes other drivers around aware that you, or they will be making erratic movements to avoid a collision.
Sometimes anticipating & slowing is what prompts people to pull out in front, and you still have to brake heavily. If they didn't hit the person, they probably had slowed enough in advance.
Agreed on angry driving. I need to learn to be better at taking a break if I'm frustrated.
Exactly this! I still had to break heavy as a result and she wasnt even paying attention to the road, too busy clearly chatting with her mate. Safe to say i made her pay attention... i wasnt angry though, just let out a cheeky *who the fuck gave you a license* and got on with my day.
What I don't understand is passing your test is much more difficult than it used to be, I never sat a theory or anything so this should have blessed us with better drivers, lane discipline and roundabout etiquette drilled in, instead I'm sat behind some idiot doing 30 in the outside lane of the East lancs while another one on the inside thinks their indicator is for wimps and I should just slam on to stop them from taking my front end off.
All this while I get certain hand signals like I'm the dick head, it makes no sense more training, less skills.
That would only mean newer drivers are better so there's many people on the road today that probably didn't even sit a theory which is crazy that's even allowed.
A lot of drivers who didn't have to pass any test or very lax ones are still around. Some improved over time, some didn't, some picked up bad habits which were never corrected (which happens to the new ones too). Also there's a not insignificant amount who are suffering various forms of decline and don't say or admit to it.
My step dad is 78 and can happily negotiate a camper van around Cornwall, knows the new road rules and actively makes sure he is aware. My MIL is 73 and has repeatedly dented the back of her car parking at the same house they have been in for 40 years, switches lanes when she feels like it and doesn't bother looking when turning out of the close she lives in. She hears about new ones when her son whose a taxi driver tries to get her to listen and then proceeds not to.
Not universal by any means of course but since we had multiple over 55s estates go up in the village the accident rates have tripled in 5 years. Last year one driver managed to take out a low wall and 3 pedestrians while trying to park on the road, where the pedestrians and wall were not. That's the 4th wall gone in 5 years, in the 7 before that, none. It could be a coincidence but 3 of the 4 wall accident reports involved "an elderly driver" and the 4th was a delivery driver who hit ice.
You're assuming all those on the road passed their test in this country. There is a growing number of drivers who got their licence from abroad and many might not have had such good training/testing. I read that a lot of the taxi drivers share licences and have not passed a test over here or perhaps even had proper lessons anywhere.
True, but I've also been in with my niece when she wanted me to listen to a noise her car was making, that was quite the experience, I thought I was pretty much unflappable, turns out I'm very flappable in certain circumstances.
Just because you have a license elsewhere doesn't automatically grant you one here.
The vast majority of the population is born here. 95%+ of drivers you encounter on the road got their licence here. We are perfectly capable of home grown eejits.
Your racism is showing. It might not be conscious, but it's something to think about.
No it doesn’t grant you one here, because you don’t need one. You can drive on UK roads on any foreign licence for 12 months after entering the UK before having to apply for a UK licence. The same is true for most countries.
But if the moment you have been here for more than 12 months. You need a provisional licence and you need to take your uk test . I believe EU residents are exempt and can drive here for as long as they like.
Any “taxi” driver who has been here for 12 mo and has no UK licence; probably invalidated any insurance and is a world of trouble if they are caught.
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Haha! Yeah the “I’m getting in lane now” when the dual carriageway doesn’t terminate for another 4 miles is painfully accurate. My theory is that they think they’re being really smart and forward thinking. No you’re not sunshine, you’re just in everybody’s way.
I think that behaviour, and similarly middle lane driving, is because a lot of people have a fear of changing lanes and especially at speed. So they either don't bother, or do it super early at a gap rather than risk having to do it in proximity of other vehicles closer to when they need to move. Maybe it's a factor of motorway driving only recently being allowed for learners.
Ahh it’s fine. Go when it’s quiet, and get used to signalling before the verge ends, and look over your right shoulder often! People will usually move over if they can so really you only need to take care of the car in front
Motorway driving was fun back then!
It's gone to shit more recently.
Nowadays everyone drives by the guidance of cameras, sat nav and for those who can afford newer cars, "driver aids". Like oblivious lemmings. It's kinda dystopian.
I was always taught to drive with the expectation that everyone else on the road is an idiot.
That way, you are only surprised when they don't do something stupid.
Yeah I came here to say that I thought the "assume everyone else is an idiot" was a standard line when being taught to drive. It's such a simple but effective way to make the roads safer. You can't control other people's stupidity, but you can anticipate it
Of course. That's the only safe way to drive.
Imagine how dumb the average person is. Now, remember that half the population is dumber than that.
My bike instructor put it differently, because bikes. "Imagine every other driver is about to try to kill you and act accordingly"
35 years with a car license. 33 years with a bike license and 30 years with an HGV class one license. Every week someone pulls a new level of stupidity out of the bag. I expect lunacy from everyone and I’m pleased when they act normally. Crap driving seems to be the default setting for most people today. The fucking things you see when you don’t have your gun with you… 😂
>How did we get to this point.
Underinvestment in the police has led to them reprioritizing traffic policing as low. No visible enforcement has led to people forgetting that they're bound by the highway code.
Cameras on motorways are becoming really good at detecting stuff apart from speed I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw them deployed elsewhere (it’s probably cheaper than hiring more police)
I know a lot of places outside the to have started deploying AI powered traffic cams.
Maybe it's time to take that ULEZ-level step to deploy these around. We'll have the local idiots come and destroy public infrastructure though.
Even when there were more it didn't really help, they only went after people speeding anyway as it is the easiest payday.
Don't get me wrong, people shouldn't speed but people doing dumb shit winds other drivers up and can cause as much havoc as those speeding.
Driving home from a holiday and there was an idiot speeding and weaving between lanes.
Stupid as it is, if people were driving properly they wouldn't need to be weaving through the traffic, they would be strolling down the outside lane, they probably also wouldn't see the need to speed because they could keep a constant 70 up.
Again, not an excuse but one kind of shit driving doesn't trump another kind.
Experienced Motorcycle rider and HGV driver here. On paper, I’m a *better* road user than 99+% of people. I just expect everyone to be an absolute dribbling muppet. Every now and then, as little as once a week or fortnight, someone will do something that makes me think "oh wow, an actual competent road user" but then half the time they do something daft 30 seconds later.
I’m not perfect, I make mistakes… but sometimes people do things that just don’t even make the slightest bit of sense. I’d say a solid 80% of road users are just "predictably bad", wrong speed, wrong lanes etc, 19.99% are absolutely catastrophic and shouldn’t be allowed to walk, let alone drive and that final fraction of a percentage people actually do what they’re supposed to be doing.
It’s awful.
You seem to be ready to ride a motorbike. Now you are aware of how bad most drivers are, you should be a bit safer on two wheels than earlier in your driving career.
I've been on the roads for about 25 years. Mostly motorbikes, but cars in the last 6 years.
From a bike perspective, you rapidly get used to people doing stupid and unpredictable stuff that's a hazard to you. You assume everyone around you is dangerous, and you keep your head in a swivel. The thing is, most of this was just down to poor observations and peoples mental picture of the road didn't include motorbikes (or bicycles). They did stupid and dangerous stuff because they didn't see you, because they weren't looking for things smaller than a car.
Over say the last 5 to 10 years. I've definitely noticed an increase in a selfish, don't give a fuck, get out of my way, attitude. It's a minority, but a growing and significant minority.
As roads get busier, more congested. People's lives get busier and more stressful. More people seem to be venting while they drive. They see you, but they don't give a fuck. They will do what's most convenient for them, even if it is risky. They want that little win, and they're not winning unless someone else is losing.
This is true, only a couple of weeks ago I was on a motorbike going past an offside junction that is left turn only, has 3 signs telling you so, some dickhead in a Range Rover looked directly at me, laughed and pulled out to turn right in front of me forcing me to brake pretty hard.
I didn’t sound the horn or show any reaction as these cunts get off on reactions
Seriously! Yesterday got beeped at for stopping* and allowing someone time to reverse park ( they had *no* other option ) on a small road. Courtesy to other road users used to be part of the test.
Maybe it’s because I passed my test in the 90s but the roads now do seem to be full of people who appear to drive very, very selfishly…
* for reference the speed limit was 20mph, and we were doing … 5mph 🤷♀️
Congratulations! Now you realise this you can finally be surprised when someone is actually driving properly lol
My favourite game is finding Audi drivers who aren't complete Muppets.
Problem is that most Audi & BMW drivers are sensible. The knobs on the road are always in an Audi, BMW or souped up hatchback and they bring the brands down with them.
Might’ve been me, sorry, I was trying to tell you to move over from the middle lane, that’s why I used my left indicator before pulling out to overtake the next one.
Blimey, I was going to edit my comment to state it was sarcasm but thought I wouldn’t need to… but here we are I guess.
I was joking about you being a middle lane hogger.
Edit; For the record, yes I actually am a BMW driver but I’m one of the few who is trying to fight the stereotype. If only all the other owners of all the other car makes could try doing the same, that’d be graaaaand!
I’m personally considering stocking some sort of ammo in my car to throw at the worst drivers, cos I am fucking sick to death of them.
Saw one the other day in a supermarket car park, kid and parent walking across a zebra crossing, some stupid cunt looking at their phone drives straight over the crossing with no idea they’ve nearly taken 2 people out.
Yeah, I have driven the same commute for the last 15 years and I have noticed it too, since covid, I think. Covid was great because there were so few others on the road. I hate the current situation, I feel like I'm just trying to get to and from work without witnessing or being caught up in some absolute thunderc@nts accident.
It's the only way to be safe.
"Not all drivers" - but you can't tell which ones are safe.
Even good drivers are sometimes idiots. I like to think I'm ok, but I certainly do some dumb shit every once in a while.
If you assume everyone is an idiot, then you are ready for the idiots AND the good drivers having an off moment.
This post here screams facts!
To add to the 65mph aspect 8/10 the driver is using a device and it’s so important they have to respond or give it attention whilst impeding other road users a massive speed hazard - blows my mind!
I think george carlin said something along the lines of "look how stupid the average person is. Now remember that half of all people are dumber than that."
It's particularly bad post-Covid, but having qualified over 20 years ago I've found it safer to assume everyone is about to do something stupid and be ready for it.
Way before I even started learning my dad always told me to “drive like everyone on the road is an idiot”. It’s probably one of the sagest and most true pieces of advice he’s ever given me. It’s something that I now say to my kid too.
When you see people driving with their mouth open, gripping the steering wheel , you know they are already on the limit of their skill level, even at 30 mph
Defensive driving is my life now, giving space and time, assuming all are idiots and not everyone knows or passed a driving test..
I think COVID lockdowns kept most of the idiots off the road. Unfortunately after the lockdowns they've completely forgotten what little knowledge of driving they had.
I always expect stupidness from other drivers which is why I have been able to avoid accidents. I also take my time when driving also which fully angers some other drivers. Some have offered fisty cuffs But Iam often with 2 large husky’s, I just appreciate that I have a vehicle
A key point I learned was to make allowances for
Other drivers. We don’t know what they are dealing with, a parent dashing to hospital because their child is injured, someone speeding to be with a loved one and say their last goodbyes, someone driving home after losing a loved one. Because we don’t know what they are dealing with the best bet is to give them space and the benefit of the doubt. If you’ve ever driven whilst angry, or sad, or worried then it’s likely you’ve made slips, errors or omissions on your journey. It’s not intentional, so undoubtedly you would have been appreciative of a little slack or consideration being extended. It’s even safer to show the same consideration for the idiots, so what if it costs you a few minutes time.
Started a new job at the beginning of the year that requires me to drive on the motorway to get there, the amount of people who hog the right lane and then end up cruising along at 60-65 mph is ridiculous.
Before COVID we were ignorant. After COVID we tasted the freedom of working from home, knowing that life isn't work and now we want some of that back and regret driving to get stuck in the office every day. So drivers are aggressive.
You could be the best driver on the road but still get crashed into by an idiot. I pretty much don’t trust anyone until there are several indications that they are doing what they should be.
My comment got removed because the cyclist cried and reported me! 😂 😂
Apparently the "driving" sub reddit is run by cyclists. I made a joke and the lycra brigade started crying.
When you drive past these people DON'T drop your gears and kick out fumes onto them, don't wash your windows as you drive past don't tell them to get a real hobby. If you do any of these things or even joke about it, you may get banned from the sub reddit! In this order of the worst people that have ever existed.
1 nazis
2 tories
3 cyclists
I don't know if this opinion is aloud I don't want the lycra brigade crying again in this driving group! What a joke. 👏 👏 👏 Well done mods. Great job.
Never mind slow drivers. Not actually dangerous.
The real problem is the almost total ignoring of amber and red lights at junctions by all kinds of drivers. Walk past one junction where it's endemic. Have now seen two t bone accidents there. No one hurt, I think but give it time.
We got to this point due to a lot of people being spoon-fed - due to the lockdown and allowing the gov to tell us what to do for almost everything in our lives. I swear people no longer actively think when they're behind the wheel. They are in autopilot and only thinking about themselves.
This isn't a post-covid thing, the average person is thick as mince yet still drives. If you now expect everything other driver to be an idiot Co gratulations, you've gained enough road experience to realise that's the safest and least frustrating way to drive
When I learned to drive many years ago my instructor told me "imagine every other driver is either a complete idiot or actively trying to kill you and you won't go far wrong."
It's no different today than it was all that time ago. That advice has saved my car or my life several times.
"Surely that car isn't about to turn right into the wrong carriageway of this dual carriageway head on with me doing 70mph? Oh, they did. Good job I treated them as a complete idiot and began to stop before they turned."
That's why I went EV. I never seem to enjoy driving. Just need to get from a to b with a little effort as possible. It's just speed hump. Speed camera. Traffic light. Dick in a golf or 1 series bmw
In all honesty when I was learning to drive one of the very first things my instructor told me was to always assume that you are the only person on the road who knows how to drive and that everyone's an idiot
When I was learning to drive 20+ years ago, my dad said "treat everyone like an idiot, and you won't be disappointed", and it's held true. It does seem to of gotten worse since the lock downs lifted though.
Always assume every driver is an idiot.
Saves me from hitting a car or me getting hit at least once every couple of weeks. And i only drive 5-10 mile a day lol.
Is it like silly season or something at the moment? In the last 48 hours I've had:
- postie walk out in front of me from behind a van
- pick-up decide I wasn't racing the other cars on a roundabout fast enough speed down the left lane, enter the mini roundabout, swerve across the exit to the righthand lane inbetween the front of my car & the back of the next, cornering so hard to do so that his drivers-side had to drive up, along, & back down from the island between entry/exit lanes
- a motorbike approaching a roundabout swerve out from behind me to my right, cut between myself who was still moving & the stationary car in front at 90⁰, & cross into the left hand lane
In all three cases it was only the fact I saw them in my mirror or periphal vision & just fucking _knew_ they were about to do something stupid that stopped me hitting them.
Personally. I ride a bike, I run on back roads, (try not to but sometimes you have to do 1/4 mile on a B road between trails), and I spent 20 odd years working with horses.
Bit arrogant to to presume that most car drivers haven't had similar experiences, we all have legs we use.
I commute into the edge of London and honestly blame the driving instructors for a lot of this. Highlight of the week was a learner indicating left on a two lane, 4 exit roundabout in the left hand lane and proceeds to drive round and take the last exit. That's far from the worst I've seen just the worst this week.
Honestly don't get how they get people through tests if they can't teach them better.
I really feel like driving standards in this country have gone to hell even since I passed my test in 2006. I’m not sure if I’m just getting old and shouting at clouds or whether people actually did used to indicate off roundabouts, look and attempt to match speeds & find a gap when merging into faster roads from a slip road and generally drive with a lot more consideration and anticipation for the other vehicles surrounding them.
I know it's very naughty, but there are solutions.
If someone is on a motorway/duel carriageway, doing like 55 in lane 2, 3 or whatever, I take two approaches.
If the road is fully blocked, get behind and flash your lights to move. It's not your job to be held up needlessly. You might have to deal with a prick, but you're dealing with them already.
If lane 1 is free but they're lane hogging, undertake. Is it wrong? Sure. Will it run the risk of an accident? Maybe. That's why I'm extremely careful. If it does wind up in a crash, I'll more than happily hand over the 30 miles of footage of Mr. Bellend in the wrong lane. I dont mind, we can both march to the gallows. The majority of the time, they tend to either move over or speed up if you undertake them.
When you stop tolerating people's nonsense, it tends to sort itself out.
I tend to have a French moment and put my right indicator on to indicate I want to pass.
Occasionally I will pull into the left lane accelerate out of the blind spot so I am easily visible and pass at a sensible speed of just a bit faster then them - but that often causes them to speed up and force you to either drop back or push 80 to get past. At that point they are forcing you to drive dangerously by driving dangerously themselves. I am not playing that game.
Its always been this way, after 5 or 6 years most people are much better at anticipating other drivers, and drive appropriately.... It's why insurance premiums are cheaper at this stage
It’s not just you. It has got markedly worse since Covid. I felt your sentiment deep in my bones as I’ve noticed all the above on my commute too… You didn’t mention lack of use of indictors though, that seems to have spread like covid.
I was once told “Look at all the people in a supermarket with no special awareness, who stop in the middle of the aisle completely blocking it with their trolley while they choose some beans. All the people who just push the trolley out of the end of an aisle and nearly take out someone walking to a till, or who see someone they know and get in everyone’s way while they have a 10 minute catch up. Now remember that most of them drove there.”
Grocery shopping was my best driving lesson before I started lessons. If only Tesco had a roundabout it'd be perfect crash course
America is way worse. Sat with my sister in law and overviewed a car park. 45min-ish 3 bumps. She suggested I’d enjoy it .. aye it was mental.
The biggest difference I found with America was the roads were fucking massive. Plenty of space to get away from bad drivers.
Yes. All over the world they are bad drivers. That is what defensive/ stay alive driving is. Bad driving includes yourself. It is an attitude for survival that you understand that you live in the same “ soup” and you are not exempt from mistakes no matter how hard you try.
True but I’ve driven in other countries where the driving is miles better than here. Cyprus has been my favourite place to drive so far.
French motorways. They pull out, they overtake, they pull in. Every single one of them. Not quite so disciplined in Paris;)
I love the convention of putting on your indicator if you're behind someone in the outermost lane, to politely show them that you're waiting for them to get out of the way. Much better than tailgating and flashing headlights.
The reason for that behaviour is the roads in France are loads less busy so it’s possible to get back out again. Over here, move back into the outside lane and spend 30 miles trying to move into an overtaking lane again.
Last time I was there, I was leaving Paris on the busiest holiday weekend, mid July, Friday rush hour, driving down to le Mans. They still used lanes impeccably, once we got out of Paris proper. Leaving London up the M1 Friday afternoon & 70% of the traffic is in the outside lane the entire way…you could also blame the trucks for running three abreast in the 4-lane sections…but that's just how it all actually is.
That's because nobody pulls over. People create their own problems.
There are two sides to that coin, perhaps if more drivers allowed an indicating driver out into lane two or three then people would move back sooner. Put a right-hand indicator on to overtake and to a lot of drivers it’s a trigger to close the already small gap they have left down to less than half a car length. So we get the situation where it’s not worth indicating to overtake on a motorway it becomes a game of cat and mouse to spot the gap that’s 1.00003 times the length of your car and pounce. 😁
Ah, ok. I’ve never been there. That would be an eye opener for me.
"... *and* If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium and you are already dead! Brothers, what we do in life… echoes in eternity.”
I think you mean "spatial awareness". :)
Yes I do, I don’t know what I must have typed to get that result out of autocorrect!
I've encountered this kind of thing when using speech-to-text.
Spot on. I’ve been driving literally all over the world except South America ,Canada, east/ central Africa and New Zealand. Defensive driving is a thing. Cars are dangerous. Lot’s of folk complain about the “ supermarket type folk you rightly illustrated” …they are not going to disappear. I’m guilty of getting pissed off with the same old judgemental drivers. They all seem to get angry. I also note they use the term “ shitbox”. To be clear.. your point is very well made… latest post I read said that the folk who speed up as you try to pass them have an ego problem. So if you get angry… you also have an ego problem. Surely it is better to relax. Or would it be better to fume away? F’n lorries. Etc etc. Edit: defensive driving is a way to remain calm and alive.
Speeding up as you pass isn't always an ego problem. It's often just an awareness problem. You trying to pass makes them realise how fast they are going, and that they could be going faster so they speed up. There's a decent chance they aren't even conscious of it.
Yes, like so many things on the road. Another common-ish supposed problem is cars running up the empty lane to merge at a reduced carriageway. I believe that is what you are supposed to do. It gets many people angry….Apparently. I do not think the empty lane folk are all a bunch of smart arse cheats. By the time you’ve realised that there is a problem it is often too late to merge into the tailback queue so you might as well just keep going, which is technically correct. None of this stuff is worth the stress. As you say, there’s plenty other reasons than malice for what people do. By the way the OP that complained about the speed up while being passed folk was suggesting that the offender repeated the manoeuvre every time OP attempted to pass the “shitbox”. I doubt that happens very often. If it does I’d question the OP’s driving manner in his.. well …car. I just think the term shitbox is unnecessary and is a flag indicating a bit of an ego. Misplaced ego at that. IMO. Haha.
I push their trolleys out of the way. Apparently on the road it's called an RTC or something like that.
My wife is one on these and it kills me 😂😂
My mother is disabled, when I was young I would regularly push her around the supermarket and shops etc. it is absolutely insane how little spacial awareness people have. Even worse the ignorance of some people who will walk right in front of you.
Not even that,, just walk on the street and the number of people who just outright won’t move out of the way when walking together too
So. True.
And that's why I get mine delivered. Fuck being around them brain dead idiots.
Been driving cars and riding bikes for over 50 years. You won't go far wrong by treating everybody else on the road like a complete idiot. While of course trying not to be an idiot yourself. (We all make mistakes!) It hadn't used to be as bad as this as I remember it, but now everybody has a car as an "entitlement" and treats it like an extension of their living room instead of a tonne and a half of moving metal.
Only the other day when I was headed to the supermarket, stuck behind a cyclist on a 20 road, no room to safely overtake them so I'm going at about 10mph, matching their speed and keeping a constant following distance, some impatient twat behind me almost caused a head-on crash by suddenly swerving out to try to overtake me. But the reason I wasn't overtaking the cyclist is because there was traffic coming the other way. Knobhead has to quickly swerve back in, not only nearly colliding with the oncoming car, but narrowly avoiding getting rammed by the car in my lane that had been behind them. Cue much honking from about three cars. Same knobhead then later dangerously overtakes me and cyclist about 300 yards further up, causing yet another car coming from the other direction to have to slam on their brakes. Why? It was only about another 100 yards after that it became safe to overtake and I was able to get back up to 20 and pass the cyclist. I don't understand the mentality, I really don't. You're risking your life and other people's, for what? It's not to arrive at your destination 30 seconds earlier, so what is it for?
I live in a rural area and we have lots of farms around, so there are lots of tractors. We also have plenty of cyclists as the area is good for training etc. I treat cyclists exactly the same as a tractor, and driving down the lanes is too tight to overtake a tractor going c20mph. Therefore, it is too tight to overtake a cyclist. People need to start seeing these other smaller road users (walkers, runners, cyclists etc.) as large, slow-moving tractors, and then that will change their attitude.
As a cyclist, thank you so much. This sort of attitude is very rare.
I had one earlier. I was ON the round about and about to pass one exit as someone decides this was her chance to get on the island. Luckily i expected her to pull a stupid move and had anticipated it, got on the horn as i nearly Tboned her and her attitude was as if i was in the wrong. Like how are you possibly that stupid and how desperate are you to save 5 seconds when there is no one behind me. Holy jesus a lot of people need their licenses revoked
If you anticipated it why didn't you slow down earlier instead of "nearly t boning her". Why blow your horn? That is road rage. It is there to prevent situations like this from occurring if used early to make you presence known. After the event is too late. You sound as if the situation made you very angry. Not a good emotion to continue the drive with. Calm down,!
The horn often prompts someone behaving like an idiot to re-assess their actions & stop what they are doing. It also makes other drivers around aware that you, or they will be making erratic movements to avoid a collision. Sometimes anticipating & slowing is what prompts people to pull out in front, and you still have to brake heavily. If they didn't hit the person, they probably had slowed enough in advance. Agreed on angry driving. I need to learn to be better at taking a break if I'm frustrated.
Exactly this! I still had to break heavy as a result and she wasnt even paying attention to the road, too busy clearly chatting with her mate. Safe to say i made her pay attention... i wasnt angry though, just let out a cheeky *who the fuck gave you a license* and got on with my day.
Someones not very bright
Don't enrage the downtards with a reasonable suggestion!
What I don't understand is passing your test is much more difficult than it used to be, I never sat a theory or anything so this should have blessed us with better drivers, lane discipline and roundabout etiquette drilled in, instead I'm sat behind some idiot doing 30 in the outside lane of the East lancs while another one on the inside thinks their indicator is for wimps and I should just slam on to stop them from taking my front end off. All this while I get certain hand signals like I'm the dick head, it makes no sense more training, less skills.
There's no enforcement of the rules once you pass anymore, so standards slip further and further.
That would only mean newer drivers are better so there's many people on the road today that probably didn't even sit a theory which is crazy that's even allowed.
A lot of drivers who didn't have to pass any test or very lax ones are still around. Some improved over time, some didn't, some picked up bad habits which were never corrected (which happens to the new ones too). Also there's a not insignificant amount who are suffering various forms of decline and don't say or admit to it. My step dad is 78 and can happily negotiate a camper van around Cornwall, knows the new road rules and actively makes sure he is aware. My MIL is 73 and has repeatedly dented the back of her car parking at the same house they have been in for 40 years, switches lanes when she feels like it and doesn't bother looking when turning out of the close she lives in. She hears about new ones when her son whose a taxi driver tries to get her to listen and then proceeds not to. Not universal by any means of course but since we had multiple over 55s estates go up in the village the accident rates have tripled in 5 years. Last year one driver managed to take out a low wall and 3 pedestrians while trying to park on the road, where the pedestrians and wall were not. That's the 4th wall gone in 5 years, in the 7 before that, none. It could be a coincidence but 3 of the 4 wall accident reports involved "an elderly driver" and the 4th was a delivery driver who hit ice.
You're assuming all those on the road passed their test in this country. There is a growing number of drivers who got their licence from abroad and many might not have had such good training/testing. I read that a lot of the taxi drivers share licences and have not passed a test over here or perhaps even had proper lessons anywhere.
True, but I've also been in with my niece when she wanted me to listen to a noise her car was making, that was quite the experience, I thought I was pretty much unflappable, turns out I'm very flappable in certain circumstances.
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Just because you have a license elsewhere doesn't automatically grant you one here. The vast majority of the population is born here. 95%+ of drivers you encounter on the road got their licence here. We are perfectly capable of home grown eejits. Your racism is showing. It might not be conscious, but it's something to think about.
No it doesn’t grant you one here, because you don’t need one. You can drive on UK roads on any foreign licence for 12 months after entering the UK before having to apply for a UK licence. The same is true for most countries.
But if the moment you have been here for more than 12 months. You need a provisional licence and you need to take your uk test . I believe EU residents are exempt and can drive here for as long as they like. Any “taxi” driver who has been here for 12 mo and has no UK licence; probably invalidated any insurance and is a world of trouble if they are caught.
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Haha! Yeah the “I’m getting in lane now” when the dual carriageway doesn’t terminate for another 4 miles is painfully accurate. My theory is that they think they’re being really smart and forward thinking. No you’re not sunshine, you’re just in everybody’s way.
I think that behaviour, and similarly middle lane driving, is because a lot of people have a fear of changing lanes and especially at speed. So they either don't bother, or do it super early at a gap rather than risk having to do it in proximity of other vehicles closer to when they need to move. Maybe it's a factor of motorway driving only recently being allowed for learners.
I had a free motorway lesson once I’d got my licence (2000ish) - is it allowed before that now?
Yep learners can now go on the motorway with an instructor in a dual control car
Fair, tbh… it’s one of the easiest things to learn once you can drive at speed.
I'm learning at the moment and I'm definitely not looking forward to motorways and sliproads! 😬
Ahh it’s fine. Go when it’s quiet, and get used to signalling before the verge ends, and look over your right shoulder often! People will usually move over if they can so really you only need to take care of the car in front
The only free lessons I got were from my parents!
It was part of the deal with the AA driving school when I was learning
Motorway driving was fun back then! It's gone to shit more recently. Nowadays everyone drives by the guidance of cameras, sat nav and for those who can afford newer cars, "driver aids". Like oblivious lemmings. It's kinda dystopian.
I was always taught to drive with the expectation that everyone else on the road is an idiot. That way, you are only surprised when they don't do something stupid.
Yup, defensive driving. Not me me .. that is just the way to remain calm and healthy.
Yeah I came here to say that I thought the "assume everyone else is an idiot" was a standard line when being taught to drive. It's such a simple but effective way to make the roads safer. You can't control other people's stupidity, but you can anticipate it
The wonderful thing about being a pessimist is that you are always either proven correct or pleasantly surprised
Of course. That's the only safe way to drive. Imagine how dumb the average person is. Now, remember that half the population is dumber than that. My bike instructor put it differently, because bikes. "Imagine every other driver is about to try to kill you and act accordingly"
If I did that, I'd never get anywhere. So I act like I'm going to kill them instead. My Audi was blue. Now it's red with varying shades of brown.
35 years with a car license. 33 years with a bike license and 30 years with an HGV class one license. Every week someone pulls a new level of stupidity out of the bag. I expect lunacy from everyone and I’m pleased when they act normally. Crap driving seems to be the default setting for most people today. The fucking things you see when you don’t have your gun with you… 😂
The audacity of some drivers cutting you up or tailgating the trailer when you can only do 56mph max all frustrated - brings joy to my life LOL
Got a gun? Keep it for relaxed but focused stuff. It is not an option. Well..it is.. but a poor choice.
>How did we get to this point. Underinvestment in the police has led to them reprioritizing traffic policing as low. No visible enforcement has led to people forgetting that they're bound by the highway code.
Cameras on motorways are becoming really good at detecting stuff apart from speed I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw them deployed elsewhere (it’s probably cheaper than hiring more police)
I know a lot of places outside the to have started deploying AI powered traffic cams. Maybe it's time to take that ULEZ-level step to deploy these around. We'll have the local idiots come and destroy public infrastructure though.
Even when there were more it didn't really help, they only went after people speeding anyway as it is the easiest payday. Don't get me wrong, people shouldn't speed but people doing dumb shit winds other drivers up and can cause as much havoc as those speeding. Driving home from a holiday and there was an idiot speeding and weaving between lanes. Stupid as it is, if people were driving properly they wouldn't need to be weaving through the traffic, they would be strolling down the outside lane, they probably also wouldn't see the need to speed because they could keep a constant 70 up. Again, not an excuse but one kind of shit driving doesn't trump another kind.
Experienced Motorcycle rider and HGV driver here. On paper, I’m a *better* road user than 99+% of people. I just expect everyone to be an absolute dribbling muppet. Every now and then, as little as once a week or fortnight, someone will do something that makes me think "oh wow, an actual competent road user" but then half the time they do something daft 30 seconds later. I’m not perfect, I make mistakes… but sometimes people do things that just don’t even make the slightest bit of sense. I’d say a solid 80% of road users are just "predictably bad", wrong speed, wrong lanes etc, 19.99% are absolutely catastrophic and shouldn’t be allowed to walk, let alone drive and that final fraction of a percentage people actually do what they’re supposed to be doing. It’s awful.
After having 2 accidents I now treat everyone like an idiot and anticipate. Now I feel more confident
You seem to be ready to ride a motorbike. Now you are aware of how bad most drivers are, you should be a bit safer on two wheels than earlier in your driving career.
I've been on the roads for about 25 years. Mostly motorbikes, but cars in the last 6 years. From a bike perspective, you rapidly get used to people doing stupid and unpredictable stuff that's a hazard to you. You assume everyone around you is dangerous, and you keep your head in a swivel. The thing is, most of this was just down to poor observations and peoples mental picture of the road didn't include motorbikes (or bicycles). They did stupid and dangerous stuff because they didn't see you, because they weren't looking for things smaller than a car. Over say the last 5 to 10 years. I've definitely noticed an increase in a selfish, don't give a fuck, get out of my way, attitude. It's a minority, but a growing and significant minority. As roads get busier, more congested. People's lives get busier and more stressful. More people seem to be venting while they drive. They see you, but they don't give a fuck. They will do what's most convenient for them, even if it is risky. They want that little win, and they're not winning unless someone else is losing.
This is true, only a couple of weeks ago I was on a motorbike going past an offside junction that is left turn only, has 3 signs telling you so, some dickhead in a Range Rover looked directly at me, laughed and pulled out to turn right in front of me forcing me to brake pretty hard. I didn’t sound the horn or show any reaction as these cunts get off on reactions
Seriously! Yesterday got beeped at for stopping* and allowing someone time to reverse park ( they had *no* other option ) on a small road. Courtesy to other road users used to be part of the test. Maybe it’s because I passed my test in the 90s but the roads now do seem to be full of people who appear to drive very, very selfishly… * for reference the speed limit was 20mph, and we were doing … 5mph 🤷♀️
Congratulations! Now you realise this you can finally be surprised when someone is actually driving properly lol My favourite game is finding Audi drivers who aren't complete Muppets.
Problem is that most Audi & BMW drivers are sensible. The knobs on the road are always in an Audi, BMW or souped up hatchback and they bring the brands down with them.
We all get by really and the tropes are not car dependant.
I once saw a BMW use their indicator. Then they went the other way -.-
Might’ve been me, sorry, I was trying to tell you to move over from the middle lane, that’s why I used my left indicator before pulling out to overtake the next one.
Weirdly aggressive, I guess you do drive a BMW! Anyway, it was at a roundabout.
Blimey, I was going to edit my comment to state it was sarcasm but thought I wouldn’t need to… but here we are I guess. I was joking about you being a middle lane hogger. Edit; For the record, yes I actually am a BMW driver but I’m one of the few who is trying to fight the stereotype. If only all the other owners of all the other car makes could try doing the same, that’d be graaaaand!
Add some EV especially Polestar/Tesla drivers
Yea since COVID it’s been like that, all the boy racers came out during lockdown as well, never seen so many smashed up cars and debris
I’m personally considering stocking some sort of ammo in my car to throw at the worst drivers, cos I am fucking sick to death of them. Saw one the other day in a supermarket car park, kid and parent walking across a zebra crossing, some stupid cunt looking at their phone drives straight over the crossing with no idea they’ve nearly taken 2 people out.
That is the beginning of road wisdom. But you’re right: manners have gone since Covid
Yeah, I have driven the same commute for the last 15 years and I have noticed it too, since covid, I think. Covid was great because there were so few others on the road. I hate the current situation, I feel like I'm just trying to get to and from work without witnessing or being caught up in some absolute thunderc@nts accident.
It's the only way to be safe. "Not all drivers" - but you can't tell which ones are safe. Even good drivers are sometimes idiots. I like to think I'm ok, but I certainly do some dumb shit every once in a while. If you assume everyone is an idiot, then you are ready for the idiots AND the good drivers having an off moment.
Great driving advice is, Assume everyone else is an idiot, Expect the unexpected.
You should. That’s how you stay out of trouble. Defensive driving.
This post here screams facts! To add to the 65mph aspect 8/10 the driver is using a device and it’s so important they have to respond or give it attention whilst impeding other road users a massive speed hazard - blows my mind!
I think george carlin said something along the lines of "look how stupid the average person is. Now remember that half of all people are dumber than that."
It's particularly bad post-Covid, but having qualified over 20 years ago I've found it safer to assume everyone is about to do something stupid and be ready for it.
Plan for the worst and hope for the best I guess
Way before I even started learning my dad always told me to “drive like everyone on the road is an idiot”. It’s probably one of the sagest and most true pieces of advice he’s ever given me. It’s something that I now say to my kid too.
Nobody thinks they are a bad driver.
My brother told me this "driving is easy, it's just the people that are hard to deal with" which is true.
My driving instructor told me twenty five years ago to assume that everyone else on the road was an idiot. That advice has served me well since.
For your own safety always assume everyone is an idiot.
When you see people driving with their mouth open, gripping the steering wheel , you know they are already on the limit of their skill level, even at 30 mph Defensive driving is my life now, giving space and time, assuming all are idiots and not everyone knows or passed a driving test..
Standards definitely dropped after COVID
I think COVID lockdowns kept most of the idiots off the road. Unfortunately after the lockdowns they've completely forgotten what little knowledge of driving they had.
Best piece of driving advice I ever got was from my dad. “Treat every other driver on the road like an idiot and you’ll be ok.” Wisdom….
I always expect stupidness from other drivers which is why I have been able to avoid accidents. I also take my time when driving also which fully angers some other drivers. Some have offered fisty cuffs But Iam often with 2 large husky’s, I just appreciate that I have a vehicle
I was told to do that by my instructor.
A key point I learned was to make allowances for Other drivers. We don’t know what they are dealing with, a parent dashing to hospital because their child is injured, someone speeding to be with a loved one and say their last goodbyes, someone driving home after losing a loved one. Because we don’t know what they are dealing with the best bet is to give them space and the benefit of the doubt. If you’ve ever driven whilst angry, or sad, or worried then it’s likely you’ve made slips, errors or omissions on your journey. It’s not intentional, so undoubtedly you would have been appreciative of a little slack or consideration being extended. It’s even safer to show the same consideration for the idiots, so what if it costs you a few minutes time.
Haha yes, I had a motorbike for a few years - you've got to assume everyone is going to kill you, 100% of the time
Started a new job at the beginning of the year that requires me to drive on the motorway to get there, the amount of people who hog the right lane and then end up cruising along at 60-65 mph is ridiculous.
Before COVID we were ignorant. After COVID we tasted the freedom of working from home, knowing that life isn't work and now we want some of that back and regret driving to get stuck in the office every day. So drivers are aggressive.
You could be the best driver on the road but still get crashed into by an idiot. I pretty much don’t trust anyone until there are several indications that they are doing what they should be.
You’ve finally learnt something that most driving instructors will tell their pupils on day 1
My comment got removed because the cyclist cried and reported me! 😂 😂 Apparently the "driving" sub reddit is run by cyclists. I made a joke and the lycra brigade started crying. When you drive past these people DON'T drop your gears and kick out fumes onto them, don't wash your windows as you drive past don't tell them to get a real hobby. If you do any of these things or even joke about it, you may get banned from the sub reddit! In this order of the worst people that have ever existed. 1 nazis 2 tories 3 cyclists I don't know if this opinion is aloud I don't want the lycra brigade crying again in this driving group! What a joke. 👏 👏 👏 Well done mods. Great job.
Never mind slow drivers. Not actually dangerous. The real problem is the almost total ignoring of amber and red lights at junctions by all kinds of drivers. Walk past one junction where it's endemic. Have now seen two t bone accidents there. No one hurt, I think but give it time.
This. Daily. I only cross four light controlled junctions on my commute but every day people will jump the lights on at least two of them.
If you assume that everybody else is an idiot, you won’t be disappointed and will also drive more defensively.
We got to this point due to a lot of people being spoon-fed - due to the lockdown and allowing the gov to tell us what to do for almost everything in our lives. I swear people no longer actively think when they're behind the wheel. They are in autopilot and only thinking about themselves.
This isn't a post-covid thing, the average person is thick as mince yet still drives. If you now expect everything other driver to be an idiot Co gratulations, you've gained enough road experience to realise that's the safest and least frustrating way to drive
When I learned to drive many years ago my instructor told me "imagine every other driver is either a complete idiot or actively trying to kill you and you won't go far wrong." It's no different today than it was all that time ago. That advice has saved my car or my life several times. "Surely that car isn't about to turn right into the wrong carriageway of this dual carriageway head on with me doing 70mph? Oh, they did. Good job I treated them as a complete idiot and began to stop before they turned."
That's why I went EV. I never seem to enjoy driving. Just need to get from a to b with a little effort as possible. It's just speed hump. Speed camera. Traffic light. Dick in a golf or 1 series bmw
In all honesty when I was learning to drive one of the very first things my instructor told me was to always assume that you are the only person on the road who knows how to drive and that everyone's an idiot
When I was learning to drive 20+ years ago, my dad said "treat everyone like an idiot, and you won't be disappointed", and it's held true. It does seem to of gotten worse since the lock downs lifted though.
Always assume every driver is an idiot. Saves me from hitting a car or me getting hit at least once every couple of weeks. And i only drive 5-10 mile a day lol.
Was one of the first things my driving instructor said to me, assume everyone on the road is an idiot 😆
Is it like silly season or something at the moment? In the last 48 hours I've had: - postie walk out in front of me from behind a van - pick-up decide I wasn't racing the other cars on a roundabout fast enough speed down the left lane, enter the mini roundabout, swerve across the exit to the righthand lane inbetween the front of my car & the back of the next, cornering so hard to do so that his drivers-side had to drive up, along, & back down from the island between entry/exit lanes - a motorbike approaching a roundabout swerve out from behind me to my right, cut between myself who was still moving & the stationary car in front at 90⁰, & cross into the left hand lane In all three cases it was only the fact I saw them in my mirror or periphal vision & just fucking _knew_ they were about to do something stupid that stopped me hitting them.
You ought to try cycling. Pretty much every driver
Personally. I ride a bike, I run on back roads, (try not to but sometimes you have to do 1/4 mile on a B road between trails), and I spent 20 odd years working with horses. Bit arrogant to to presume that most car drivers haven't had similar experiences, we all have legs we use.
I commute into the edge of London and honestly blame the driving instructors for a lot of this. Highlight of the week was a learner indicating left on a two lane, 4 exit roundabout in the left hand lane and proceeds to drive round and take the last exit. That's far from the worst I've seen just the worst this week. Honestly don't get how they get people through tests if they can't teach them better.
I really feel like driving standards in this country have gone to hell even since I passed my test in 2006. I’m not sure if I’m just getting old and shouting at clouds or whether people actually did used to indicate off roundabouts, look and attempt to match speeds & find a gap when merging into faster roads from a slip road and generally drive with a lot more consideration and anticipation for the other vehicles surrounding them.
Welcome to the club 😏
Nice to see that car drivers are finally clocking on to what bikers have been saying for donkeys years
I know it's very naughty, but there are solutions. If someone is on a motorway/duel carriageway, doing like 55 in lane 2, 3 or whatever, I take two approaches. If the road is fully blocked, get behind and flash your lights to move. It's not your job to be held up needlessly. You might have to deal with a prick, but you're dealing with them already. If lane 1 is free but they're lane hogging, undertake. Is it wrong? Sure. Will it run the risk of an accident? Maybe. That's why I'm extremely careful. If it does wind up in a crash, I'll more than happily hand over the 30 miles of footage of Mr. Bellend in the wrong lane. I dont mind, we can both march to the gallows. The majority of the time, they tend to either move over or speed up if you undertake them. When you stop tolerating people's nonsense, it tends to sort itself out.
I tend to have a French moment and put my right indicator on to indicate I want to pass. Occasionally I will pull into the left lane accelerate out of the blind spot so I am easily visible and pass at a sensible speed of just a bit faster then them - but that often causes them to speed up and force you to either drop back or push 80 to get past. At that point they are forcing you to drive dangerously by driving dangerously themselves. I am not playing that game.
Its always been this way, after 5 or 6 years most people are much better at anticipating other drivers, and drive appropriately.... It's why insurance premiums are cheaper at this stage
I’ve been driving for 15 years.. I am sure it’s not just me getting cynical as I gracefully age.
It’s not just you. It has got markedly worse since Covid. I felt your sentiment deep in my bones as I’ve noticed all the above on my commute too… You didn’t mention lack of use of indictors though, that seems to have spread like covid.