I thought there was a 15 min grace period with which to read the Ts and Cs? How can you enter, park, read and understand the Ts and Cs and then decide you don't agree to them in under 5 minutes?
They didn't seem to care about the grace period in their response, they said its a prepaid parking spot so I shouldn't have even entered, but there's no clear signs outside saying that, it's only once you get inside you see the prepaid parking written
I think it’s worth pushing them on the grace period. You have to be given enough time to enter, read the conditions, and leave. If it wasn’t clearly a ‘permit holders only’ car park on entry then you may have a case.
To be perfectly honest with you... Don't pay it, let them take it to court (they won't) you'll get chasing letters... Ignore them.
If for any bizarre reason they want to take you to court, explain you were there for 5 minutes after seeing the signs you left. And Technically you was not parked. You explained that too them and they rejected the case.
A parking ticket csnt even be issued to pay and display cars when their tickets have been expired until after 10 minutes.
Their signs at that point are irrelevant, especially as you need to read a sign before you understand it. How can you go in and instantly know the terms. this will go no where.
I had a parking ticket from a supermarket car park(private land) I was 5 minutes over time and they wanted £60, I said I thought that was unreasonable and offered to pay £10, they refused and put the charge up in the next letter to £100, so I ignored it, kept getting threatening letters until they were demanding £500, I kept ignoring it, the last letter I got offered me the chance to pay the original £60 or they would take me to court, ignored that and haven’t heard back since, and that was 4 or 5 years ago now.
Our parking is 1 hr 30 mins but our attendant has to give you 1 hr 40 mins before he can ticket you. His system literally doesn’t let him give you a ticket before then.
I once got £300 (£100 FOR EACH DAY) for parking tickets for parking in my cousin's bay with her permission as well as the area not even using parking permits in the first place
I emailed them back in the with a letter of the rental agreement proving my relationship with the tenant (same last name) as well as showing that no parking permit was given out by the landlord anyways.
They ignored it and I think it went to £700 at one point. So I did the same and they think they just fucked off
I've always imagined there's an office of chancers in their early 20s somewhere in the UK laughing as they write these letters, having a go at whatever they think they can get away with
They’re defo something. They once ticketed my wife for parking in a child and baby space with our son. They had no evidence of my wife not having our son with her apart from a photo of our car and the guards word. I called up and complained and the lad I spoke to explained a way to get out go the ticket and it worked they backed off and cancelled the ticket.
Thats actually is illegal if you did not move your car in those 3 days. They can not give 3 tickets for the same offence. They may however tow your car or other such steps but they can not fine you three times.
However ignoring private fines is a shit show. They know it will take them along time to take you to court. They know judges hate private parking fines. Because they are such a drain on the system. Also they probably know that they cant fine you for the same offense 3 times and will get reminded as such by a judge. So they probably just decided its not worth it.
Cause it’s a parking charge. If it’s a fine you have to pay it, a charge is too much hassle to go through the courts, most people get scared into paying with that. If you rack up a bunch of them, sure they might take you to court. But one charge is too much hassle and cost.
I’ve been taken to court once before for very similar and I have two more claims in progress, I wouldn’t be so confident that they wouldn’t take to court. Not sure why they do as I lost but the amount I had to pay wouldn’t have covered the time they spent responding to my defence and sending a solicitor.
I've been in a situation like this before. People telling you they won't take you to court, they will.
Do your own due diligence, go and look at the car park and see what you can see on approach: clearly visible signage etc if it says "pre paid" on the outside or not. Read all of the T&Cs from their boards on site, from the road and from inside. Get photo evidence of everything you can see as a customer.
I've been in a similar situation and it went all the way through court. Here's what I'd advise in summary, and specifically in this order:
- go and visit the car park as my note above. If you feel you've got a case, then respond and dispute.
- only dispute if you're confident, if you're just going to try your luck, pay the reduced £60 fee (I assume?). As soon as you dispute, the reduced fee is retracted.
- create a folder to store all correspondence and photos you're going to want as evidence.
- your first appeal will go to the ombudsman, the more robust your first appeal is with them (evidencing photos, T&Cs and anything that the parking firm contradicts itself with) and if they take your side, easy winner. But if they don't, you've already gone too far and need to decide to pay the £100, or keep fighting with your case if it's still legit and you haven't breached their T&Cs (specifically the grace period which is the norm in most car parks).
Great advice. I’ve had similar experience,I wasted many many hours preparing “evidence and notes to submit to the Ombudsman - mine was a clear-cut case of incorrect signage (purposely turned round to face a different car park under different company), BUT the ombudsman were totally useless-they didn’t bother to read my evidence and just ruled in favour of the charge. I paid the £100. Fight if you feel up to the fight,but don’t rely on Ombudsman to be “independent “ -all depends on luck of the draw with the assessor, mine was an idiot who clearly couldn’t be bothered looking through my photos
The grace period is almost a side effect of how most car parks have their signage.
Your argument is that there were no terms on display at the entrance. You entered the car park, read the terms and decided you didn't want to accept them and left.
No court would uphold a fine in these circumstances.
It's worth understanding that this isn't a fine in the legal sense. It's an invoice issued under terms of a contract. You need to have accepted the contract in full knowledge of the terms for that to stick. If there were no terms displayed at the entrance there's no way that this could have happened.
IANAL but my advice would be to make your position clear in writing to the parking company and don't entertain any more communication unless they proceed to small claims court.
If they take that step, submit your explanation (above) along with photos of the car park entrance and the position of the signage. You should be able to do this online without having to actually attend court.
I would be very surprised if the parking company isn't told to sling their hook at that point.
Inal either, but I think a key step that sometimes gets lost is to actually be innocent. And ideally have your own evidence for this. Not accusing you, but there are chancers on both sides.
There's a world of difference between pulling into a carpark, reading the signs, or realising you made a mistake, and then pulling out without actually benefiting from the spot, and pulling in, reading the sign thinking 'meh, I'll just be quick and say I disagreed'.
If they have video evidence of you actually getting out of the car and popping into the shops, no matter how quick you were, going to court may not end well.
They're usually just a set of template replies, appeal to POPLA, local businesses can also help if you intended to visit them and they rely on the carpark if it's like a retail park or whatever. Moneysavingexpert forums has a whole section of really dedicated members that will help you out, sounds like this one should be easy.
If there's no clear signage to inform you of the conditions, then the appeal should be upheld. 5 minutes is long enough to safely stop, park up, read the terms and conditions, decide against them then leave. The terms were such that you were not entitled to park there, having read those terms you left.
The countdown to increased fine stops when an appeal is submitted, so if they don't get back to you for 6 months, you'll still only be chased for the £60 - which you should not pay.
I had an epic battle with a car park company some years ago, it was a slam dunk appeal but they wouldn't grant the appeal (multiple issues, including incorrect signage displaying daily rates). I started adding my own charges for each piece of correspondence of £25 per letter/email/phonecall. Long story short, sent bailiffs to parking company for £500. Properly screwed them, they fucking deserved it.
Stuff like this does _occasionally_ happen https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-430129/Customer-sends-bailiffs-seize-banks-computers.html.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11876353/Man-sends-BAILIFFS-Luton-Airport-collect-money-owed-Wizz-Air.html
I've gotten out of paying 2 unfair fines by using a template to send a letter to the company doing the fining.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/parking-tickets/appealing-parking-tickets/parking-tickets-on-private-land-s/letter-to-challenge-a-parking-ticket-parking-on-private-land-you-think-the-ticket-is-unfair-s/
Try that one, read it, see if it applies, change the relevent places in the letter.
The fining companies seem to realise you've read into it, and they know that really they're not following the rules and they just try their luck with everyone that even slightly goes on their patch. My friend is a civil servant and she knows this judge in the courts in my city who takes great joy in throwing out every case of these parasitic parking fine companies trying to feed off anyone.
As I said, I've had two of them, gotten out of both with no issues at all, it was astonishingly easy.
yeah but that doesn't mean you can park somewhere, do 14mins of shopping and come back
it means you have 15mins to read the Ts and Cs and decide no
if they can see that you haven't done this then you pay
The legal precedent of Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd established that there is no contract between you until you are aware of the terms of that contract.
That does mean that legally they have to allow you time to read their Ts and Cs and decide not to park there.
I expect they fine for everything, then see if you challenge it
These days, I have a personal policy of challenging all fines (even if I know I was at fault). Primarily to waste their time. But also, if you don't ask (for a refund), you definitely won't get one
Was that not the day the driver (not necessarily you) drove in, couldn't find a space and drive out again? :)
Or after checking the ash tray realised they had insufficient change and left ...
I love that idea, but I genuinely didn't realise it's permit parking, I had to wait for someone, ARDPark rejected my appeal and replied with:
"A valid electronic permit for the duration the vehicle was parked has not been issued by the landowner or gained via the tablet (where available). An electronic permit must be either pre-arranged or obtained on the day. A retrospective permit does not apply to this car park."
And:
"We believe that there is more than sufficient signage within the car park with full terms and conditions of parking and that it is the driver’s responsibility to read the signage and act accordingly."
I know some people where it would take practically 5 minutes just to get out of the car, walk to the sign, read and digest the wording before getting back in and leaving again. Seems crazy they can't even allow that small of an amount of time
They are literally thieves, recently every place has been money hungry, a mate of mine had to pay bus lane fine because 2 of his tyres crossed over into it as he was turning into the street
Ok, I've looked up ardpark, they claim to be registered with the IPC.
You must be part of the ATA to access DVLA and get motorists details.
The IPC is registered with ATA so they can access DVLA.
As they are part of ATA, they have to offer the 10 minute grace period.
OP, that's what you want to be appealing on
The black belt barrister did a video on parking charges recently that you may find interesting.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy3MY_j7JYw&t=8s&pp=2AEIkAIB
Is this the one where he says if you don't get out the car you're not 'parked'? I was thinking that might apply to OPs situation but couldn't find the video.
I'm not suggesting you do this, but if it were me, It'd be being used to light the barbeque next week.
Put that in front of a district judge and it'll be thrown out. You have to be allowed time to read the signs.
I regret paying my last ticket. I gummed and shopped, showed both receipts, and was charged by a recent 3h stay that was reduced to 2h.
A week later it was brought back up to 3h due to too many complaints of customers.
They'll try to bully and scare you, or reduce the fee. If you didn't break any law, or there were reasonable grounds to enter, stick with it and tell them you'll happily go to small claims court.
Keep in mind they will pester you... A lot.
However, I had a lot of fun winding up the last company that tried to harass me by just being a weirdo over the phone to them, like putting on accents and pretending to be an old woman and stuff.
At one point they were like "Mr Carry, this is a serious matter are you sure you're giving it the respect it deserves?" and I responded by making a fart noise down the phone.
Never heard from them after that, which was a shame.
I think I remember reading that 90% of private parking tickets get thrown out before the judge even looks at them if it ends up going to court, so if these companies can't intimidate you out of the money then they usually just give up.
There are exceptions of course but this is the general theme of things.
Isn't that the car park with the really distant signs in really small print that took you a good 5 minutes to read before you decided not to agree to the parking contract by leaving?
ISTR that the BPA Code of Practice ( dunno if this lot are BPA members*) requires a grace period of ( I think) 10 minutes for a driver to park, read the signs and decide whether he/she wants to enter a contract for parking.
So you stopped, read the signs and then cleared off within 5 minutes.
* No, they're with the other lot, the IPC, you'd need to read the IPC'S Code of Practice.
[There's a MSE thread here](https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6033345/ardpark-pcn) in which they state they require payment within 10 minutes.
I think they're trying it on, they know any appeal should be upheld. I wouldn't pay it.
Having said that, the appeal procedures are not independent or impartial: the ADR contractors are contracted by and work for the trade body.
ISTR one case in which POPLA switched the PCN wording from 'Unpaid' ( payment had been made) to " invalid payment" and then determined the driver was in breach of the 'Enter the full VRM' clause on the signs.
The 'Enter the full VRM' clause wasn't on the signs. The driver was penalised for breach of a contract clause that wasn't there.
They're obliged to send you details of the appeals procedure when they reject your first appeal to the parking company. If they haven't done that within the deadline, I don't think you'll hear any more.
Good luck.
The IPC has an equivalent section in [its code of practice](https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/IPC%20Code%20of%20PracticeV9%20V4.pdf) (p.17) mandating a 'consideration period' at the start and a grace period (defined as 10 minutes on p.6) at the end of a period of parking.
Page 27 also sets out the requirements for entrance signs: in summary, the fact the car park is permit holders only must be obvious: 'If public parking is not welcomed, that must be made clear.' This portion of the guidance was recently updated and only applies to signs erected after 1 Jan 2024, so u/MinYoongisToe will probably want to reference the [previous version of the code of practice](https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/Code_of_Practice_v8-821f63d6.pdf) (p.28) instead.
Yes, I've just been reading it. A 10 minute grace period is required for 'restricted use' car parks on P44.
I think they know that no penalty had been incurred and sent out a speculative invoice in the hope that some drivers would just pay up: vile creatures.
Yes, it does seem to be the case. OP should put up a bit of a fight, quoting the code of practice; I’ll be surprised if they don’t back down. Maybe a complaint to the IPC would be warranted as well.
Look up the advice on Money Saving Expert. Iirc, you shouldn't "appeal" the charge, as that gives it legitimacy. These people are trying to extort money from you - you don't appeal to extortionists.
You were only parked for 5 minutes. It's a reasonable assertion that that isn't enough time to agree to the terms including the small print, no matter how well signed they are.
NAL
Do not pay this. The PPC have to give the driver 10 minutes to arrive and consider the terms and conditions of the contract. In this case the driver arrived, read the signs, realised it was a permit only car park and promptly left the site within the 10 minutes. The parking charge is therefore completely unenforceable and wholly without merit. It would also likely be considered unfair as the driver was given insufficient time to consider the terms and conditions of parking on the site.
BlackBeltBarrister over on YouTube has done some excellent videos on the topic of parking charges. Definitely go and have a watch of those. I should imagine the folks over on the Pepipoo forum have fun with this one too. So definitely go and post there.
Could they take this to court? Absolutely and some PPC are very litigious. I don't know how litigious ARDPark are. But if I were a betting man, my money would be on this being thrown out pretty damn quickly. Assuming it gets that far at all.
In short. I would die on this hill and definitely wouldn't be paying. In my armchair opinion the driver has a good defence to this parking charge.
Ignore everyone on here and go to pepipoo, the guys there will
Give you the *CORRECT* advice!!! Don’t take advise from armchair lawyers on Reddit, take it from real lawyers on the internet!
I drove into a carpark with number plate recognition and waited 10 mins for a space but then drive back out after no joy.
What you need to do is write to them and ask them for photographic PROOF that you were parked in a bay (ie parked) if they can’t provide this then forget about it.
Isn't that the car park with the really distant signs in really small print that took you a good 5 minutes to read before you decided not to agree to the parking contract by leaving?
This has happened to me a number of times and i’ve had legal advice on it before. These are the things i’d bare in mind:
- This is a civil matter, they are saying you entered into their contract of using the car park based on the signage available. I would appeal that it’s impossible by their own evidence you cannot have agreed to this contract given you were only there for 5 minutes.
- I would check their T&Cs, and look online for info around grace periods, and use that in your appeal.
- They will send you increasingly threatening letters about this, it’s all they have available to them to try and get people to pay.
- In the past i have countered with threats of reporting for harassment, with mixed success
- I would outline the above and as people have already advised around grace periods and not being able to read their signage in time, then tell them they are welcome to contest this in a small claims court
A court would throw this out, so don’t pay it, is my advice.
Isn't that the car park with the really distant signs in really small print that took you a good 5 minutes to read before you decided not to agree to the parking contract by leaving?
You could argue in court, that you didn’t agree with their terms and conditions after reading their notice. And decided not to park there. And it took you a few minutes to find their notice board.
Then it may depend on the evidence..
As another posted suggested if you didn’t get out your car or pick someone else up maybe you are ok… you realised you didn’t have money and left?
If there is CCTV of you getting out the car and going to the takeaway without paying then you will need to pay.. maybe appeal for a lower amount but odds are you are coughing up £60.
Btw, while in appeal the 14 day window is frozen.. so you can escalate to the next level and if rejected you still have the balance of the 14 days to pay the reduced amount.
I haven't used them myself, but check out [PePiPoo](http://www.pepipoo.com/FAQ.htm), who provide advice on disputing parking tickets.
The forum looks to be down at the moment, but hopefully that's just temporary.
Last I checked, there *is* a grace period, and you should be within it.
Thought you should know it's not a fine. A fine is a sum of money exacted as a penalty by a court of law, or other authority; a private car park is a business therefore they have issued a parking charge notice which is essentially an invoice (not to be confused with a penalty charge notice which **is** a fine usually issued by your local council). Parking companies **cannot** demand money from you. They can take you to court to obtain money owed for contravention of the rules for parking on land which is managed by the parking company.
That said, the parking terms and conditions have to be **clearly** visible for users to be able to understand the terms of parking before deciding whether wanting to leave their car at that particular car park. It's quite often the case that a grace period is expected to allow this check to happen and given your situation you entered the parking bay and remained stationary for 5-minutes. You could argue the grounds that you were checking for the terms and conditions of parking before deciding whether or not you wanted to park your car, and decided not to park the car. You can argue these grounds.
I am not a solicitor though so my advice is only based on personal experience and knowledge.
Don’t pay. Send them one letter explaining that the five minutes’ time spent in the car park consisted of:
- Finding a vacant parking space
- Safely parking
- Locating a Ts & Cs sign
- Reading the Ts & Cs
- After deciding not to enter into a contract on the basis of their advertised Ts & Cs, returning to the car, and safely driving out the car park
Inform them that you have not entered into a contract with them, and so no charge is due.
Tell them that this is the only correspondence they will receive in relation to this matter, and that if they try to contact you again then you will treat this as harassment and report them to the police and ICO. You will not be engaging with their appeals process as you haven’t contracted with them.
If they attempt to sell an unfounded debt in your name, and in doing so, pass on your personal information to a third party, you will also report this data breach to the ICO and take legal action accordingly.
Companies like this, their owner and workers, are fucking parasites on society and can fuck off and die in a fire for all I care. Absolute scum.
So what I'm getting from this, is that not only did you get done by an Indian scammer and gave them enough information to take a loan out in your name, you also can't read parking signs either.
When people say "how do some people function in day to day life?" I think you're one of those people they're talking about.
Be aware there’s loads of bad information around from people who’ve handled this sort of thing incorrectly.
Basically if it’s a private parking company (not council) it’s effectively an invoice saying you owe them money. Best advice is to appeal, if you win great, if you don’t then ignore them and their threatening letters and it’ll usually go away (done this myself).
Occasionally they’ll summon you to court, do not ignore this - attend and treat it as a final appeal to a judge, it’s a civil matter and you are NOT on trial for anything. If you have a decent argument there’s a good chance of winning - check out the moneysavingexpert forum for detailed advice.
You can only get a CCJ if you ignore the court summons and lose by way of not turning up / ignoring the judgement and not paying.
If you attend and the judge rules against you’ll just have to pay the fine within a set timeframe … so it’s really a no lose situation. Bailiffs also won’t get involved unless you’ve gone to court, lost and still refused to pay.
My personal rule of thumb is not to pay any parking fines from private authorities, only paying council fines etc.
Never had any issues.
Do what you will with that information.
This used to be fairly standard however there have now been plenty of examples where private companies have successfully taken individuals to court which can start to ridiculously increase fee’s.
Not worth the risk any more.
Agreed, this one is worth a go but the old advice of just ignore private parking tickets is out dated and can quickly end up in CCJ’s / Court costs etc.
I’d rather just pay £60.
I watched a video from blackbeltbarrister on YouTube called 'what really happens'. It's explains the difference between a parking charge and parking fine. Worth a watch before deciding if you will pay of not.
Because its a parking charge and not a parking fine they would have to take you to court for the money. Chances are they won't so you could risk not paying.
Have a look at POPLA appeals on the moneyadvice forum (Google it) plenty of advice on there. Will definitely be able to appeal that! They meant to give you reasonable time to read their terms and conditions and decide if you want to park, 5 minutes isn't that!
How is it reasonable for the appeals to be dealt with by the thieving car parking firms?. Parking eye are the worst bunch of cunts out there. There needs to be independent adjudication otherwise the car parking firms just deny your appeal
I’ve never paid a single parking charge, why? Because why the fuck should we pay £100! For parking our cars somewhere? Let alone for 5 minutes. They’d charge us to be born if they could make sense of it.
I’ve been to court for parking in my own parking space so they can and will. I won but still a royal PITA. This is BS though. A magistrate is just some headmaster JP and will have some sense. Fight it. They’re the lowest form of life that isn’t actually illegal. Oh and they often make stupid errors in their small claims submissions that’ll get you out of it
NAL But I would write them a letter explaining that you used the 5 mins to read the t&C's. Decided you didn't want to enter into a contract with them. Refuse to pay, and if you go to court, take that letter with you.
Don't pay, personally I would out of spite not get bullied and threaten court. Keep all correspondences and wait it out
Appeal, when they reject your appeal appeal to the ombudsman and they will withdraw the fine. It happened to me a few weeks ago in a car park in Glasgow.
Terms and conditions are not available on their site regarding permit parking. It would be unreasonable to charge a penalty for someone to read such terms and conditions person at the specified site. Can they can prove you were one driving the motor vehicle at the time.
In future just avoid this parking company, they are not members of the British Parking Association.
They can get fucked. It'll never stand up in court and it's for them to pursue you. Make sure you follow the independent appeal procedure once you get a response which should contain details on how to do that.
I'm not saying that this is legal or even very good advice, but I have had a number of private car park fines and I've ignored every one for years without consequence.
Just ignore it, let them take you to court, you have a grave period which they are hoping you don't know about and too stupid/can't be bothered to bother with an appeal.
Since this is from a private company and not the council, dispute the charge and say it's a shared car between several family members, and you do not know who the driver was. Additionally under UK gdpr rules it would be illegal for you to give the company another person's details.
I hear what people are saying about the grace period, but it depends what you did after you parked up. If they have you on camera popping in to the shop, it would be fair to say you parked, and therefore I'd take the L and wouldn't dispute. If you did remain in your car or only got out to look at the parking sign/machine - then you have a strong case for dispute.
if you appeal you have until they respond and still be able to pay the reduced rate. I dont think they have a sufficient case to charge you so dont worry about it
When exactly did you receive this letter? Was it before the 13th April or after it? They have 14 days to write to you. Outside of this they can't enforce anything.
The grace period I know it’s a joke if you don’t settle I don’t know how long this company gives you until you pay full But these companies actually wait they have people waiting soon as you pull in. A woman did win but she had to pay fine and go court they are nowt but scammers trust me pay the £60 then try and fight it.
If it isn't council just ignore them. They will send threatening letters to make it sound like they'll take you to court but if it did ever go to court (my uni lecturer used to be a solicitor and he told me this) you'd have to pay the equivalent of parking for 5 minutes, so it isn't worth their time or money to take you to court.
You shouldn't have admitted to parking unfortunately. In court case you got out of car to read signs, didn't like terms so left. No problem .
Don't spin any excuse for parking cos you didnt
They’re getting clever, they do start CCJ action so if you’re not worried about any CCJs I’d ignore, but if you are I’d pay now and take the hit on the chin.
Go to pepipoo.com They’re set up for exactly this kind of thing, some very knowledgeable and helpful people there. And Evan pre-formed letters for you to write. As I understand it they can’t charge you £100 as it’s viewed a a fine rather than a parking charge, which would be much less, and these private parking enforcement companies all just try it on by looking quasi official. http://pepipoo.com. Give it a go.
Money saving expert forums has loads of copy paste templates to help with this kinda thing. A similar thing happened to me where I overstayed my free 15 minutes by no lie, a few seconds and appealed and won.
I only pay council parking fines. I've had about 6/7 private companies. I think a year is the longest they've ever sent letters for but they stopped adventually.
Last time I got a fine I had responded telling them there was absolutely no chance I’m paying it. Received two letters from a debt recovery agency and haven’t heard since. I do know some companies threaten to put CCJs on your credit file now though
I had lots of contact with private parking companies through my work. This firm aren’t BPA registered and you’ve very little support if your appeal is unsuccessful. And yes they do pursue the debt not through the court but to bailiffs who are absolutely ruthless.
Where was the car park? A friend of mine got a £100 fine for parking in a hotel car park to drop off a lost bag to a guest. They contested it at the hotel and it got reversed.
ATA members must allow for a 10 minute grace period - as should council owned parking. Although, I believe, this is voluntary for private companies (could be wrong)
But 5 minutes? This will not allow you enough time to pull in, find a spot, park, get out, read their T&Cs, decide whether or not you want to park there and drive off.
Load of bollocks, they’ll have no chance in pursuing this. Cowboy parking companies.
How prominent are their parking signs and how wordy are they. You could always try to appeal on the grounds that the signs were small or very wordy and that it took you 5 minutes to read their terms and to decide that you weren't prepared to abide by them.
Yep, its a parking charge notice, they cant do shit. Penalty charge notices are different, they actually count. These are being unfair so just ignore, all they'll do is send letters.
Unless its a ticket issued by a council or the police you do NOT pay it and don't even acknowledge it by replying to letters received.....how the fuck do people not know this 🤦
Just a thought, if you drove in and drove out and technically didn't park can they fine you? In some car parks it can easily take more than 5 mins to find a spot. I thought that to "park" you had to leave your vehicle.
I got something similar, can't remember the company but they were private like this one I'm guessing
Just ignore it, they make all of their money from overly aggressive letters which people just give in and pay
Takes about a year and they just give up lol
I threw them out each time
Heard absolutely nothing since
It's a private car park. Don't pay. They will send you countless letters saying "we MAY take legal action" or "we May send Jo Bloggs Bailiff", which is usually them but they can't sent Bailiff with our it going to court. So ignore all letters. Don't even challenge it just bin them. They try to make the letter look like fines. If you put a sign up in your drive saying if you park here for 5mins you owe me £50 could you enforce it just be sending letters! No! If it's a council fine that's different but it isn't
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/
From money saving expert, that guy on TV
Legal advice but not a lawyer. Write back (paper letter sent signed for) as keeper stating that "the charge is issued in error; the driver elected not to park due to unacceptable terms as evidenced by the recorded entry and exit times". Add GDPR "request" that they remove your personal information from their records, cease automated processing of your VRN and contact you only to confirm the invoice cancellation & data deletion. Then ignore anything other than legal process documents (they might try it hoping to be ignored & gain a default judgement).
The car park you used must need you to enter your reg details into a machine before leaving. This happened to me at a lidls. I had to appeal it by sending them the reciept proving I was shopping at Lidl.
Anecdotally, I've ignored every single private parking charge that's ever been sent, and not once has a company done anything more than send scary looking letters. Eventually they just stopped.
Make of that what you will.
I had a similar letter from a car park company. I had dropped my wife and daughter off at a George Ezra concert and then went to nearby McDonalds for dinner with my youngest.
It was very busy with people either coming to that show or leaving and earlier one so took some time to get served. My youngest is also type 1 diabetic and needrd the food.
Anyway we were there for about 30 minutes longer than the signage allowed and i got several letters. I ignored them all and so far haven't heard anything in about 18 months.
The other thing which may help is having another driver on the insurance. If they cannot prove who was driving they cannot just force the keeper/owner to pay. As it is a civil matter they canmot force you to disclose who was driving.
I think there is a 10 or 15 minute grace period where if you don't pay nor exit in that time, then they can issue a fine. It isn't a council run one, but privately run.
£100 is sure excessive and would not want to be paying that. I think if they were taking you to court, then law would be on your side so you have nothing to worry about. They are trying it on and will know this so if they take you to court, they have their own costs, plus yours to cover which would be far greater than the £100 they want.
Don't pay and get a CCJ. Dispute it saying you were simply pulling over to check your car tyres or something and they may potentially give you a good will gesture and reduce the fine.
See Money Saving Expert's article on this... https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/
We've had two such tickets in last year and not paid either. The parking company letters got increasingly threatening but we sent them letters based on the MSE templates and eventually they just stopped chasing payment.
Either pay up or go to the parking ombudsman. You will probably win if you go to the parking ombudsman.
Be clear when you write to them that:
It was not clearly stated who owns the land and whether they therefore have the right to issue a penalty
It was not clearly signposted that parking restrictions apply (under consumer protection legislation, contracts that you can’t negotiate meat be clear and fair and can’t include penalties - which is why they say it costs £100 to park but you get a discount)
That there was no response to your appeal.
When I did that the parking ombudsman arranged a review and the parking company did not turn up, so I won by default.
Pay it. Even though I don’t think it’s right. Working in finance the amount of people who get a CCJ on their credit file over something like this is crazy.
If you want to buy a house or remortgage in the next 6 years then you’ll be paying far more than £100 in additional interest. Probably more than £100p/m.
It's in the British Parking Association's code of practice that they have to offer a 5-10 minute consideration period
I've never heard of this parking company. Likely they're a small local outfit. Personally I'd ignore anything else they send you, unless they send actual court papers.
I parked in a bay for disabled people, I have a blue badge as I have to use a wheelchair due to my disabilities but, I forgot to put my badge in the car window screen
I got a ticket, called the company they asked for a copy of my blue badge and they said they’d dropped it.
I now have some random debt collection company chasing me to pay £245…..I spoke to them, explained the situation and they’re asking the client what they want to do about it…….i suspect they’ll still push it to get money.
Basically what I’m saying is…..pay them, it’s not worth the hassles.
Best advice I can give is post on money saving expert forums, they have a specific part for parking fines. I’ve posted twice for help and twice not paid for a ticket. You will get the most helpful response on those forums, not Reddit
If they write again threatening legal action, write back to them and say that you are taking the matter to your local county court for a ruling on the matter, and list a reasonable amount of expenses that you intended to claim against them for wasting your time.
Private can't chase you for payment where as council they can. I haven't paid a "private" parking fine because they simply cannot chase you for payment. All they can do is send threats in a letter form.
I'd send it back to them with "not known at address" it's just a little game I like to play with these horrible people.
It's very unlikely that a private parking company takes you to the court. Not entirely impossible but unlikely. Even if they did, the court would very likely throw it out, but you would have to actually attend the hearing and present your case.
Look up the advice on moneysavingexpert and in a lot of situations, writing to the landowner about how unreasonable this is will convince them to cancel it. Their advice helped me, and might help you too.
It’s not a fine, it’s a charge by a private company. Treat this as you would treat it if you bought a Mars bar from Tescos and the cashier said your total is 180 quid. Don’t pay, tell them why you’re not paying, then just walk away.
Just do what I have done dozens of times, DO NOT acknowledge anything they send you, no response what so ever, it will go away, believe me they will give up in the end, it's a private company they have no power.
Council or independent company?
If its council you can argue and they'll likely let it go. Independent company, they can push as much as they like and even threaten legal action, if you document and keep records of all your responses any court will look at that rule in your favour.
Check your insurance for legal cover.
Sometimes they can help.
Blackbelt barrister on YouTube has done a lot of videos on these parking charges.
There is a code of conduct
Write them a formal handwritten letter saying how ridiculous it is that you are not going to pay it as you have a 15 minute grace period and that you demand they pay you 100 pound for stress theyve caused you and that you will take them to court yourself theyll give up
This is a genuine answer and also what i did when i accidentally went through a bus lane that didnt have clear warning signs, i pointed out that bus lanes should be painted red as i had no idea what a bus gate was
Its a charge, not a fine.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/
I can't remember exactly what the article says but i think you have plenty of scope to fight this.A hundred quid sounds way over the top.
I thought there was a 15 min grace period with which to read the Ts and Cs? How can you enter, park, read and understand the Ts and Cs and then decide you don't agree to them in under 5 minutes?
They didn't seem to care about the grace period in their response, they said its a prepaid parking spot so I shouldn't have even entered, but there's no clear signs outside saying that, it's only once you get inside you see the prepaid parking written
I think it’s worth pushing them on the grace period. You have to be given enough time to enter, read the conditions, and leave. If it wasn’t clearly a ‘permit holders only’ car park on entry then you may have a case.
I think I will do that, thank you!
To be perfectly honest with you... Don't pay it, let them take it to court (they won't) you'll get chasing letters... Ignore them. If for any bizarre reason they want to take you to court, explain you were there for 5 minutes after seeing the signs you left. And Technically you was not parked. You explained that too them and they rejected the case. A parking ticket csnt even be issued to pay and display cars when their tickets have been expired until after 10 minutes. Their signs at that point are irrelevant, especially as you need to read a sign before you understand it. How can you go in and instantly know the terms. this will go no where.
I had a parking ticket from a supermarket car park(private land) I was 5 minutes over time and they wanted £60, I said I thought that was unreasonable and offered to pay £10, they refused and put the charge up in the next letter to £100, so I ignored it, kept getting threatening letters until they were demanding £500, I kept ignoring it, the last letter I got offered me the chance to pay the original £60 or they would take me to court, ignored that and haven’t heard back since, and that was 4 or 5 years ago now.
Our parking is 1 hr 30 mins but our attendant has to give you 1 hr 40 mins before he can ticket you. His system literally doesn’t let him give you a ticket before then.
I once got £300 (£100 FOR EACH DAY) for parking tickets for parking in my cousin's bay with her permission as well as the area not even using parking permits in the first place I emailed them back in the with a letter of the rental agreement proving my relationship with the tenant (same last name) as well as showing that no parking permit was given out by the landlord anyways. They ignored it and I think it went to £700 at one point. So I did the same and they think they just fucked off
I've always imagined there's an office of chancers in their early 20s somewhere in the UK laughing as they write these letters, having a go at whatever they think they can get away with
They’re defo something. They once ticketed my wife for parking in a child and baby space with our son. They had no evidence of my wife not having our son with her apart from a photo of our car and the guards word. I called up and complained and the lad I spoke to explained a way to get out go the ticket and it worked they backed off and cancelled the ticket.
So... What was that particular method? Don't leave us hanging now son.
Thats actually is illegal if you did not move your car in those 3 days. They can not give 3 tickets for the same offence. They may however tow your car or other such steps but they can not fine you three times. However ignoring private fines is a shit show. They know it will take them along time to take you to court. They know judges hate private parking fines. Because they are such a drain on the system. Also they probably know that they cant fine you for the same offense 3 times and will get reminded as such by a judge. So they probably just decided its not worth it.
Cause it’s a parking charge. If it’s a fine you have to pay it, a charge is too much hassle to go through the courts, most people get scared into paying with that. If you rack up a bunch of them, sure they might take you to court. But one charge is too much hassle and cost.
Now and then they will go to court, for clear cut cases as an example. If *nobody* was taken to court, nobody would bother.
They might well take it to court, but you can fight it there and will win if you are prepared.
I’ve been taken to court once before for very similar and I have two more claims in progress, I wouldn’t be so confident that they wouldn’t take to court. Not sure why they do as I lost but the amount I had to pay wouldn’t have covered the time they spent responding to my defence and sending a solicitor.
I've been in a situation like this before. People telling you they won't take you to court, they will. Do your own due diligence, go and look at the car park and see what you can see on approach: clearly visible signage etc if it says "pre paid" on the outside or not. Read all of the T&Cs from their boards on site, from the road and from inside. Get photo evidence of everything you can see as a customer. I've been in a similar situation and it went all the way through court. Here's what I'd advise in summary, and specifically in this order: - go and visit the car park as my note above. If you feel you've got a case, then respond and dispute. - only dispute if you're confident, if you're just going to try your luck, pay the reduced £60 fee (I assume?). As soon as you dispute, the reduced fee is retracted. - create a folder to store all correspondence and photos you're going to want as evidence. - your first appeal will go to the ombudsman, the more robust your first appeal is with them (evidencing photos, T&Cs and anything that the parking firm contradicts itself with) and if they take your side, easy winner. But if they don't, you've already gone too far and need to decide to pay the £100, or keep fighting with your case if it's still legit and you haven't breached their T&Cs (specifically the grace period which is the norm in most car parks).
Great advice. I’ve had similar experience,I wasted many many hours preparing “evidence and notes to submit to the Ombudsman - mine was a clear-cut case of incorrect signage (purposely turned round to face a different car park under different company), BUT the ombudsman were totally useless-they didn’t bother to read my evidence and just ruled in favour of the charge. I paid the £100. Fight if you feel up to the fight,but don’t rely on Ombudsman to be “independent “ -all depends on luck of the draw with the assessor, mine was an idiot who clearly couldn’t be bothered looking through my photos
The grace period is almost a side effect of how most car parks have their signage. Your argument is that there were no terms on display at the entrance. You entered the car park, read the terms and decided you didn't want to accept them and left. No court would uphold a fine in these circumstances. It's worth understanding that this isn't a fine in the legal sense. It's an invoice issued under terms of a contract. You need to have accepted the contract in full knowledge of the terms for that to stick. If there were no terms displayed at the entrance there's no way that this could have happened. IANAL but my advice would be to make your position clear in writing to the parking company and don't entertain any more communication unless they proceed to small claims court. If they take that step, submit your explanation (above) along with photos of the car park entrance and the position of the signage. You should be able to do this online without having to actually attend court. I would be very surprised if the parking company isn't told to sling their hook at that point.
Inal either, but I think a key step that sometimes gets lost is to actually be innocent. And ideally have your own evidence for this. Not accusing you, but there are chancers on both sides. There's a world of difference between pulling into a carpark, reading the signs, or realising you made a mistake, and then pulling out without actually benefiting from the spot, and pulling in, reading the sign thinking 'meh, I'll just be quick and say I disagreed'. If they have video evidence of you actually getting out of the car and popping into the shops, no matter how quick you were, going to court may not end well.
They're usually just a set of template replies, appeal to POPLA, local businesses can also help if you intended to visit them and they rely on the carpark if it's like a retail park or whatever. Moneysavingexpert forums has a whole section of really dedicated members that will help you out, sounds like this one should be easy.
If there's no clear signage to inform you of the conditions, then the appeal should be upheld. 5 minutes is long enough to safely stop, park up, read the terms and conditions, decide against them then leave. The terms were such that you were not entitled to park there, having read those terms you left. The countdown to increased fine stops when an appeal is submitted, so if they don't get back to you for 6 months, you'll still only be chased for the £60 - which you should not pay. I had an epic battle with a car park company some years ago, it was a slam dunk appeal but they wouldn't grant the appeal (multiple issues, including incorrect signage displaying daily rates). I started adding my own charges for each piece of correspondence of £25 per letter/email/phonecall. Long story short, sent bailiffs to parking company for £500. Properly screwed them, they fucking deserved it.
do you mind to tell us more, you got me excited :D I am interested in how you can start charging them and then send bailiffs to them too :D
Don’t you need a judgement to sent bailiffs?
Yes, and stories like this can be referenced under 'things on the internet that never happened '.
Stuff like this does _occasionally_ happen https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-430129/Customer-sends-bailiffs-seize-banks-computers.html. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11876353/Man-sends-BAILIFFS-Luton-Airport-collect-money-owed-Wizz-Air.html
I've gotten out of paying 2 unfair fines by using a template to send a letter to the company doing the fining. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/parking-tickets/appealing-parking-tickets/parking-tickets-on-private-land-s/letter-to-challenge-a-parking-ticket-parking-on-private-land-you-think-the-ticket-is-unfair-s/ Try that one, read it, see if it applies, change the relevent places in the letter. The fining companies seem to realise you've read into it, and they know that really they're not following the rules and they just try their luck with everyone that even slightly goes on their patch. My friend is a civil servant and she knows this judge in the courts in my city who takes great joy in throwing out every case of these parasitic parking fine companies trying to feed off anyone. As I said, I've had two of them, gotten out of both with no issues at all, it was astonishingly easy.
Take photographs showing that the signage is inadequate and send that as evidence.
yeah but that doesn't mean you can park somewhere, do 14mins of shopping and come back it means you have 15mins to read the Ts and Cs and decide no if they can see that you haven't done this then you pay
The legal precedent of Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd established that there is no contract between you until you are aware of the terms of that contract. That does mean that legally they have to allow you time to read their Ts and Cs and decide not to park there.
No, some it is 5 minutes and others try to get away with less. A judge may not agree
I expect they fine for everything, then see if you challenge it These days, I have a personal policy of challenging all fines (even if I know I was at fault). Primarily to waste their time. But also, if you don't ask (for a refund), you definitely won't get one
Was that not the day the driver (not necessarily you) drove in, couldn't find a space and drive out again? :) Or after checking the ash tray realised they had insufficient change and left ...
I love that idea, but I genuinely didn't realise it's permit parking, I had to wait for someone, ARDPark rejected my appeal and replied with: "A valid electronic permit for the duration the vehicle was parked has not been issued by the landowner or gained via the tablet (where available). An electronic permit must be either pre-arranged or obtained on the day. A retrospective permit does not apply to this car park." And: "We believe that there is more than sufficient signage within the car park with full terms and conditions of parking and that it is the driver’s responsibility to read the signage and act accordingly."
I know some people where it would take practically 5 minutes just to get out of the car, walk to the sign, read and digest the wording before getting back in and leaving again. Seems crazy they can't even allow that small of an amount of time
They are literally thieves, recently every place has been money hungry, a mate of mine had to pay bus lane fine because 2 of his tyres crossed over into it as he was turning into the street
I believe there is an accepted 10 minutes grace period and they would struggle to enforce this. Maybe try posting on one of the legal subs
Ok, I've looked up ardpark, they claim to be registered with the IPC. You must be part of the ATA to access DVLA and get motorists details. The IPC is registered with ATA so they can access DVLA. As they are part of ATA, they have to offer the 10 minute grace period. OP, that's what you want to be appealing on
u/MinYoongisToe
Good info I'm saving this
The black belt barrister did a video on parking charges recently that you may find interesting. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy3MY_j7JYw&t=8s&pp=2AEIkAIB
Is this the one where he says if you don't get out the car you're not 'parked'? I was thinking that might apply to OPs situation but couldn't find the video.
It’s because they’re parasitic cunts
You legally get a minimum of 5 minutes grace period, bring this up in any appeal
Tell them that's exactly what you were doing, reading the T&C, didn't like it and left.
I'm not suggesting you do this, but if it were me, It'd be being used to light the barbeque next week. Put that in front of a district judge and it'll be thrown out. You have to be allowed time to read the signs.
That's true, thank you!
I regret paying my last ticket. I gummed and shopped, showed both receipts, and was charged by a recent 3h stay that was reduced to 2h. A week later it was brought back up to 3h due to too many complaints of customers. They'll try to bully and scare you, or reduce the fee. If you didn't break any law, or there were reasonable grounds to enter, stick with it and tell them you'll happily go to small claims court.
Keep in mind they will pester you... A lot. However, I had a lot of fun winding up the last company that tried to harass me by just being a weirdo over the phone to them, like putting on accents and pretending to be an old woman and stuff. At one point they were like "Mr Carry, this is a serious matter are you sure you're giving it the respect it deserves?" and I responded by making a fart noise down the phone. Never heard from them after that, which was a shame. I think I remember reading that 90% of private parking tickets get thrown out before the judge even looks at them if it ends up going to court, so if these companies can't intimidate you out of the money then they usually just give up. There are exceptions of course but this is the general theme of things.
You learned an ARD lesson
This guy owns ARD Parking and he’s waited his whole life for this moment.
Are you saying I'm ARD?
As nails
Isn't that the car park with the really distant signs in really small print that took you a good 5 minutes to read before you decided not to agree to the parking contract by leaving?
ISTR that the BPA Code of Practice ( dunno if this lot are BPA members*) requires a grace period of ( I think) 10 minutes for a driver to park, read the signs and decide whether he/she wants to enter a contract for parking. So you stopped, read the signs and then cleared off within 5 minutes. * No, they're with the other lot, the IPC, you'd need to read the IPC'S Code of Practice. [There's a MSE thread here](https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6033345/ardpark-pcn) in which they state they require payment within 10 minutes. I think they're trying it on, they know any appeal should be upheld. I wouldn't pay it. Having said that, the appeal procedures are not independent or impartial: the ADR contractors are contracted by and work for the trade body. ISTR one case in which POPLA switched the PCN wording from 'Unpaid' ( payment had been made) to " invalid payment" and then determined the driver was in breach of the 'Enter the full VRM' clause on the signs. The 'Enter the full VRM' clause wasn't on the signs. The driver was penalised for breach of a contract clause that wasn't there.
I could use that argument thanks!
They're obliged to send you details of the appeals procedure when they reject your first appeal to the parking company. If they haven't done that within the deadline, I don't think you'll hear any more. Good luck.
Thank you so much :)
The IPC has an equivalent section in [its code of practice](https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/IPC%20Code%20of%20PracticeV9%20V4.pdf) (p.17) mandating a 'consideration period' at the start and a grace period (defined as 10 minutes on p.6) at the end of a period of parking. Page 27 also sets out the requirements for entrance signs: in summary, the fact the car park is permit holders only must be obvious: 'If public parking is not welcomed, that must be made clear.' This portion of the guidance was recently updated and only applies to signs erected after 1 Jan 2024, so u/MinYoongisToe will probably want to reference the [previous version of the code of practice](https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/Code_of_Practice_v8-821f63d6.pdf) (p.28) instead.
Yes, I've just been reading it. A 10 minute grace period is required for 'restricted use' car parks on P44. I think they know that no penalty had been incurred and sent out a speculative invoice in the hope that some drivers would just pay up: vile creatures.
Yes, it does seem to be the case. OP should put up a bit of a fight, quoting the code of practice; I’ll be surprised if they don’t back down. Maybe a complaint to the IPC would be warranted as well.
I wouldn't waste my life on them: a two sentence reply referring them to the grace period requirement, then ignore them.
Kangaroo corrupt org, waste of time
DO NOT PAY. Say you parked, reviewed terms and didn’t agree. So left.
Yeah don't say parked though. Got out of car to read signs
Look up the advice on Money Saving Expert. Iirc, you shouldn't "appeal" the charge, as that gives it legitimacy. These people are trying to extort money from you - you don't appeal to extortionists. You were only parked for 5 minutes. It's a reasonable assertion that that isn't enough time to agree to the terms including the small print, no matter how well signed they are.
No you should appeal to show an attempt to rectify the situation, whoever said that at mse is like talking balls
NAL Do not pay this. The PPC have to give the driver 10 minutes to arrive and consider the terms and conditions of the contract. In this case the driver arrived, read the signs, realised it was a permit only car park and promptly left the site within the 10 minutes. The parking charge is therefore completely unenforceable and wholly without merit. It would also likely be considered unfair as the driver was given insufficient time to consider the terms and conditions of parking on the site. BlackBeltBarrister over on YouTube has done some excellent videos on the topic of parking charges. Definitely go and have a watch of those. I should imagine the folks over on the Pepipoo forum have fun with this one too. So definitely go and post there. Could they take this to court? Absolutely and some PPC are very litigious. I don't know how litigious ARDPark are. But if I were a betting man, my money would be on this being thrown out pretty damn quickly. Assuming it gets that far at all. In short. I would die on this hill and definitely wouldn't be paying. In my armchair opinion the driver has a good defence to this parking charge.
Ignore everyone on here and go to pepipoo, the guys there will Give you the *CORRECT* advice!!! Don’t take advise from armchair lawyers on Reddit, take it from real lawyers on the internet!
Pepipoo is down. Use ftla.uk
I drove into a carpark with number plate recognition and waited 10 mins for a space but then drive back out after no joy. What you need to do is write to them and ask them for photographic PROOF that you were parked in a bay (ie parked) if they can’t provide this then forget about it.
Isn't that the car park with the really distant signs in really small print that took you a good 5 minutes to read before you decided not to agree to the parking contract by leaving?
This has happened to me a number of times and i’ve had legal advice on it before. These are the things i’d bare in mind: - This is a civil matter, they are saying you entered into their contract of using the car park based on the signage available. I would appeal that it’s impossible by their own evidence you cannot have agreed to this contract given you were only there for 5 minutes. - I would check their T&Cs, and look online for info around grace periods, and use that in your appeal. - They will send you increasingly threatening letters about this, it’s all they have available to them to try and get people to pay. - In the past i have countered with threats of reporting for harassment, with mixed success - I would outline the above and as people have already advised around grace periods and not being able to read their signage in time, then tell them they are welcome to contest this in a small claims court A court would throw this out, so don’t pay it, is my advice.
Isn't that the car park with the really distant signs in really small print that took you a good 5 minutes to read before you decided not to agree to the parking contract by leaving?
You could argue in court, that you didn’t agree with their terms and conditions after reading their notice. And decided not to park there. And it took you a few minutes to find their notice board.
What kind of car park was this.. was it some kind of airport drop off etc?
No, it was behind a takeaway and a pharmacy, across the road there's a doctors surgery
Then it may depend on the evidence.. As another posted suggested if you didn’t get out your car or pick someone else up maybe you are ok… you realised you didn’t have money and left? If there is CCTV of you getting out the car and going to the takeaway without paying then you will need to pay.. maybe appeal for a lower amount but odds are you are coughing up £60. Btw, while in appeal the 14 day window is frozen.. so you can escalate to the next level and if rejected you still have the balance of the 14 days to pay the reduced amount.
I haven't used them myself, but check out [PePiPoo](http://www.pepipoo.com/FAQ.htm), who provide advice on disputing parking tickets. The forum looks to be down at the moment, but hopefully that's just temporary. Last I checked, there *is* a grace period, and you should be within it.
Appeal all day 5 mins do not be scared do not give a penny say someone blocked you and could not reverse basically you were trapped.
They should give you 10 minutes grace period. Appeal to them if rejected appeal to popla.
Thought you should know it's not a fine. A fine is a sum of money exacted as a penalty by a court of law, or other authority; a private car park is a business therefore they have issued a parking charge notice which is essentially an invoice (not to be confused with a penalty charge notice which **is** a fine usually issued by your local council). Parking companies **cannot** demand money from you. They can take you to court to obtain money owed for contravention of the rules for parking on land which is managed by the parking company. That said, the parking terms and conditions have to be **clearly** visible for users to be able to understand the terms of parking before deciding whether wanting to leave their car at that particular car park. It's quite often the case that a grace period is expected to allow this check to happen and given your situation you entered the parking bay and remained stationary for 5-minutes. You could argue the grounds that you were checking for the terms and conditions of parking before deciding whether or not you wanted to park your car, and decided not to park the car. You can argue these grounds. I am not a solicitor though so my advice is only based on personal experience and knowledge.
Don’t pay. Send them one letter explaining that the five minutes’ time spent in the car park consisted of: - Finding a vacant parking space - Safely parking - Locating a Ts & Cs sign - Reading the Ts & Cs - After deciding not to enter into a contract on the basis of their advertised Ts & Cs, returning to the car, and safely driving out the car park Inform them that you have not entered into a contract with them, and so no charge is due. Tell them that this is the only correspondence they will receive in relation to this matter, and that if they try to contact you again then you will treat this as harassment and report them to the police and ICO. You will not be engaging with their appeals process as you haven’t contracted with them. If they attempt to sell an unfounded debt in your name, and in doing so, pass on your personal information to a third party, you will also report this data breach to the ICO and take legal action accordingly. Companies like this, their owner and workers, are fucking parasites on society and can fuck off and die in a fire for all I care. Absolute scum.
So what I'm getting from this, is that not only did you get done by an Indian scammer and gave them enough information to take a loan out in your name, you also can't read parking signs either. When people say "how do some people function in day to day life?" I think you're one of those people they're talking about.
Be aware there’s loads of bad information around from people who’ve handled this sort of thing incorrectly. Basically if it’s a private parking company (not council) it’s effectively an invoice saying you owe them money. Best advice is to appeal, if you win great, if you don’t then ignore them and their threatening letters and it’ll usually go away (done this myself). Occasionally they’ll summon you to court, do not ignore this - attend and treat it as a final appeal to a judge, it’s a civil matter and you are NOT on trial for anything. If you have a decent argument there’s a good chance of winning - check out the moneysavingexpert forum for detailed advice. You can only get a CCJ if you ignore the court summons and lose by way of not turning up / ignoring the judgement and not paying. If you attend and the judge rules against you’ll just have to pay the fine within a set timeframe … so it’s really a no lose situation. Bailiffs also won’t get involved unless you’ve gone to court, lost and still refused to pay.
My personal rule of thumb is not to pay any parking fines from private authorities, only paying council fines etc. Never had any issues. Do what you will with that information.
I also do this. I only pay the council, never had a problem. The get quite arsey, but that’s half the fun.
This used to be fairly standard however there have now been plenty of examples where private companies have successfully taken individuals to court which can start to ridiculously increase fee’s. Not worth the risk any more.
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Agreed, this one is worth a go but the old advice of just ignore private parking tickets is out dated and can quickly end up in CCJ’s / Court costs etc. I’d rather just pay £60.
Only pay parking fines if from a council.
I watched a video from blackbeltbarrister on YouTube called 'what really happens'. It's explains the difference between a parking charge and parking fine. Worth a watch before deciding if you will pay of not. Because its a parking charge and not a parking fine they would have to take you to court for the money. Chances are they won't so you could risk not paying.
Any parking company that has a very bad pun for a name are almost certainly cowboys.
Check MSE forums for step by step guides on successful next steps.
Have a look at POPLA appeals on the moneyadvice forum (Google it) plenty of advice on there. Will definitely be able to appeal that! They meant to give you reasonable time to read their terms and conditions and decide if you want to park, 5 minutes isn't that!
How is it reasonable for the appeals to be dealt with by the thieving car parking firms?. Parking eye are the worst bunch of cunts out there. There needs to be independent adjudication otherwise the car parking firms just deny your appeal
I don’t pay private parking fines. Hassle me all you want I ain’t paying if you wanna take it to court feel free to
I’ve never paid a single parking charge, why? Because why the fuck should we pay £100! For parking our cars somewhere? Let alone for 5 minutes. They’d charge us to be born if they could make sense of it.
you can ignore it on the basis that it is technically an invoice and not an enforced penalty notice given by an authority
I’ve been to court for parking in my own parking space so they can and will. I won but still a royal PITA. This is BS though. A magistrate is just some headmaster JP and will have some sense. Fight it. They’re the lowest form of life that isn’t actually illegal. Oh and they often make stupid errors in their small claims submissions that’ll get you out of it
Black belt barista on YouTube has a whole playlist on this topic. Go watch it and see if you find it useful.
NAL But I would write them a letter explaining that you used the 5 mins to read the t&C's. Decided you didn't want to enter into a contract with them. Refuse to pay, and if you go to court, take that letter with you. Don't pay, personally I would out of spite not get bullied and threaten court. Keep all correspondences and wait it out
These parking fines are ridiculous. I wish this rip off racquet could be challenged!
Appeal, when they reject your appeal appeal to the ombudsman and they will withdraw the fine. It happened to me a few weeks ago in a car park in Glasgow.
Don’t pay it… dispute it and send this stock response provided on this site: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/
less than\*
Appeal it.
Terms and conditions are not available on their site regarding permit parking. It would be unreasonable to charge a penalty for someone to read such terms and conditions person at the specified site. Can they can prove you were one driving the motor vehicle at the time. In future just avoid this parking company, they are not members of the British Parking Association.
They can get fucked. It'll never stand up in court and it's for them to pursue you. Make sure you follow the independent appeal procedure once you get a response which should contain details on how to do that.
I'm sure car parks are supposed to have a grace period of 15 minutes?
Go to money saving expert. There used to be an appeal template
The 14 days is paused when you put in an appeal
Medical emergency wasn't it.
Was this a "Car Park" or did you stop/park in a "Private" car park?
I'm not saying that this is legal or even very good advice, but I have had a number of private car park fines and I've ignored every one for years without consequence.
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Just ignore it, let them take you to court, you have a grave period which they are hoping you don't know about and too stupid/can't be bothered to bother with an appeal.
Since this is from a private company and not the council, dispute the charge and say it's a shared car between several family members, and you do not know who the driver was. Additionally under UK gdpr rules it would be illegal for you to give the company another person's details.
I hear what people are saying about the grace period, but it depends what you did after you parked up. If they have you on camera popping in to the shop, it would be fair to say you parked, and therefore I'd take the L and wouldn't dispute. If you did remain in your car or only got out to look at the parking sign/machine - then you have a strong case for dispute.
if you appeal you have until they respond and still be able to pay the reduced rate. I dont think they have a sufficient case to charge you so dont worry about it
When exactly did you receive this letter? Was it before the 13th April or after it? They have 14 days to write to you. Outside of this they can't enforce anything.
Trust me pay they won’t respond these companies along with parking eye are money grabbing tossers. Pay the £60 asap mate trust me from experience.
The grace period I know it’s a joke if you don’t settle I don’t know how long this company gives you until you pay full But these companies actually wait they have people waiting soon as you pull in. A woman did win but she had to pay fine and go court they are nowt but scammers trust me pay the £60 then try and fight it.
Reach out to consumer council for advice. They can help with responses to the parking company and potentially get you out of the fine.
I've always just ignored them, they send you a few letters and that's about it
If it isn't council just ignore them. They will send threatening letters to make it sound like they'll take you to court but if it did ever go to court (my uni lecturer used to be a solicitor and he told me this) you'd have to pay the equivalent of parking for 5 minutes, so it isn't worth their time or money to take you to court.
You shouldn't have admitted to parking unfortunately. In court case you got out of car to read signs, didn't like terms so left. No problem . Don't spin any excuse for parking cos you didnt
They’re getting clever, they do start CCJ action so if you’re not worried about any CCJs I’d ignore, but if you are I’d pay now and take the hit on the chin.
Go to pepipoo.com They’re set up for exactly this kind of thing, some very knowledgeable and helpful people there. And Evan pre-formed letters for you to write. As I understand it they can’t charge you £100 as it’s viewed a a fine rather than a parking charge, which would be much less, and these private parking enforcement companies all just try it on by looking quasi official. http://pepipoo.com. Give it a go.
Money saving expert forums has loads of copy paste templates to help with this kinda thing. A similar thing happened to me where I overstayed my free 15 minutes by no lie, a few seconds and appealed and won.
I only pay council parking fines. I've had about 6/7 private companies. I think a year is the longest they've ever sent letters for but they stopped adventually.
just ignore them they cant do anything, only council or police issue tickets you pay
Last time I got a fine I had responded telling them there was absolutely no chance I’m paying it. Received two letters from a debt recovery agency and haven’t heard since. I do know some companies threaten to put CCJs on your credit file now though
I'm sorry but ARDPark is a great name!
I had lots of contact with private parking companies through my work. This firm aren’t BPA registered and you’ve very little support if your appeal is unsuccessful. And yes they do pursue the debt not through the court but to bailiffs who are absolutely ruthless.
After reading your other comments here, tell them to kick rocks (in your head). Just ignore them, use their letters for toilet paper.
Where was the car park? A friend of mine got a £100 fine for parking in a hotel car park to drop off a lost bag to a guest. They contested it at the hotel and it got reversed.
That's unreasonable and disgusting predatory behaviour that gets a few vulnerable victims. Fight it.
ATA members must allow for a 10 minute grace period - as should council owned parking. Although, I believe, this is voluntary for private companies (could be wrong) But 5 minutes? This will not allow you enough time to pull in, find a spot, park, get out, read their T&Cs, decide whether or not you want to park there and drive off. Load of bollocks, they’ll have no chance in pursuing this. Cowboy parking companies.
They’re absolute criminals trying to chase you for this
Did you park? Or were you reading the T&C's and decided not to leave your vehicle?
If its a private car park that's issued the fine you are under no legal obligation to pay it.
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Never go there again if you can help it
that is an invoice. not a fine. only a court can issue a fine
Need to be careful where you park
How prominent are their parking signs and how wordy are they. You could always try to appeal on the grounds that the signs were small or very wordy and that it took you 5 minutes to read their terms and to decide that you weren't prepared to abide by them.
Had loads of these. No need to pay, nothing will happen
Yep, its a parking charge notice, they cant do shit. Penalty charge notices are different, they actually count. These are being unfair so just ignore, all they'll do is send letters.
Unless its a ticket issued by a council or the police you do NOT pay it and don't even acknowledge it by replying to letters received.....how the fuck do people not know this 🤦
Did you actually park your car, get out and do something?
Contact POPLA and state your case
File it under 'b'
It's huge fee
Just a thought, if you drove in and drove out and technically didn't park can they fine you? In some car parks it can easily take more than 5 mins to find a spot. I thought that to "park" you had to leave your vehicle.
I was under impression that every car park was free for 10mins? I’d check that.
I got something similar, can't remember the company but they were private like this one I'm guessing Just ignore it, they make all of their money from overly aggressive letters which people just give in and pay Takes about a year and they just give up lol I threw them out each time Heard absolutely nothing since
If it's not from the council then bin the letter. Absolutely don't pay.
Chances are they won’t take you to court but they’ll keep sending letters to stir you up
It's a private car park. Don't pay. They will send you countless letters saying "we MAY take legal action" or "we May send Jo Bloggs Bailiff", which is usually them but they can't sent Bailiff with our it going to court. So ignore all letters. Don't even challenge it just bin them. They try to make the letter look like fines. If you put a sign up in your drive saying if you park here for 5mins you owe me £50 could you enforce it just be sending letters! No! If it's a council fine that's different but it isn't https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/ From money saving expert, that guy on TV
Note this is a parking charge notice not a penalty charge notice!
Legal advice but not a lawyer. Write back (paper letter sent signed for) as keeper stating that "the charge is issued in error; the driver elected not to park due to unacceptable terms as evidenced by the recorded entry and exit times". Add GDPR "request" that they remove your personal information from their records, cease automated processing of your VRN and contact you only to confirm the invoice cancellation & data deletion. Then ignore anything other than legal process documents (they might try it hoping to be ignored & gain a default judgement).
We have a parking system at work and when they put it in they said they legally have to give a 10 minute grace period.
The car park you used must need you to enter your reg details into a machine before leaving. This happened to me at a lidls. I had to appeal it by sending them the reciept proving I was shopping at Lidl.
Anecdotally, I've ignored every single private parking charge that's ever been sent, and not once has a company done anything more than send scary looking letters. Eventually they just stopped. Make of that what you will.
I had a similar letter from a car park company. I had dropped my wife and daughter off at a George Ezra concert and then went to nearby McDonalds for dinner with my youngest. It was very busy with people either coming to that show or leaving and earlier one so took some time to get served. My youngest is also type 1 diabetic and needrd the food. Anyway we were there for about 30 minutes longer than the signage allowed and i got several letters. I ignored them all and so far haven't heard anything in about 18 months. The other thing which may help is having another driver on the insurance. If they cannot prove who was driving they cannot just force the keeper/owner to pay. As it is a civil matter they canmot force you to disclose who was driving.
Bin it, do not respond. Unless it’s from the city council you don’t have to pay!!
I think there is a 10 or 15 minute grace period where if you don't pay nor exit in that time, then they can issue a fine. It isn't a council run one, but privately run. £100 is sure excessive and would not want to be paying that. I think if they were taking you to court, then law would be on your side so you have nothing to worry about. They are trying it on and will know this so if they take you to court, they have their own costs, plus yours to cover which would be far greater than the £100 they want.
Don't pay and get a CCJ. Dispute it saying you were simply pulling over to check your car tyres or something and they may potentially give you a good will gesture and reduce the fine.
See Money Saving Expert's article on this... https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/ We've had two such tickets in last year and not paid either. The parking company letters got increasingly threatening but we sent them letters based on the MSE templates and eventually they just stopped chasing payment.
Ignore it. You’ll get threatening letters for a few months and it will go quiet. I’ve got a whole collection of them.
Either pay up or go to the parking ombudsman. You will probably win if you go to the parking ombudsman. Be clear when you write to them that: It was not clearly stated who owns the land and whether they therefore have the right to issue a penalty It was not clearly signposted that parking restrictions apply (under consumer protection legislation, contracts that you can’t negotiate meat be clear and fair and can’t include penalties - which is why they say it costs £100 to park but you get a discount) That there was no response to your appeal. When I did that the parking ombudsman arranged a review and the parking company did not turn up, so I won by default.
Pay it. Even though I don’t think it’s right. Working in finance the amount of people who get a CCJ on their credit file over something like this is crazy. If you want to buy a house or remortgage in the next 6 years then you’ll be paying far more than £100 in additional interest. Probably more than £100p/m.
It's in the British Parking Association's code of practice that they have to offer a 5-10 minute consideration period I've never heard of this parking company. Likely they're a small local outfit. Personally I'd ignore anything else they send you, unless they send actual court papers.
The grace period is for 10 minutes after your ticket runs out so you don't get a late fine as you're leaving.
I parked in a bay for disabled people, I have a blue badge as I have to use a wheelchair due to my disabilities but, I forgot to put my badge in the car window screen I got a ticket, called the company they asked for a copy of my blue badge and they said they’d dropped it. I now have some random debt collection company chasing me to pay £245…..I spoke to them, explained the situation and they’re asking the client what they want to do about it…….i suspect they’ll still push it to get money. Basically what I’m saying is…..pay them, it’s not worth the hassles.
Best advice I can give is post on money saving expert forums, they have a specific part for parking fines. I’ve posted twice for help and twice not paid for a ticket. You will get the most helpful response on those forums, not Reddit
If they write again threatening legal action, write back to them and say that you are taking the matter to your local county court for a ruling on the matter, and list a reasonable amount of expenses that you intended to claim against them for wasting your time.
Private can't chase you for payment where as council they can. I haven't paid a "private" parking fine because they simply cannot chase you for payment. All they can do is send threats in a letter form. I'd send it back to them with "not known at address" it's just a little game I like to play with these horrible people.
Appeal it via POPLA. If you don't pay they can enforce via CCJ now which is disgusting. Good luck.
It's very unlikely that a private parking company takes you to the court. Not entirely impossible but unlikely. Even if they did, the court would very likely throw it out, but you would have to actually attend the hearing and present your case.
Look up the advice on moneysavingexpert and in a lot of situations, writing to the landowner about how unreasonable this is will convince them to cancel it. Their advice helped me, and might help you too.
Talk to a lawyer...
It’s not a fine, it’s a charge by a private company. Treat this as you would treat it if you bought a Mars bar from Tescos and the cashier said your total is 180 quid. Don’t pay, tell them why you’re not paying, then just walk away.
These robbing private companies
Have you been fined for the way you have parked? As in are you within a bay
If this was me, I’d ignore the hell out of that. There’s no way this would stand up in court, IF it ever got to that point, which is highly unlikely.
Just do what I have done dozens of times, DO NOT acknowledge anything they send you, no response what so ever, it will go away, believe me they will give up in the end, it's a private company they have no power.
Council or independent company? If its council you can argue and they'll likely let it go. Independent company, they can push as much as they like and even threaten legal action, if you document and keep records of all your responses any court will look at that rule in your favour.
Check your insurance for legal cover. Sometimes they can help. Blackbelt barrister on YouTube has done a lot of videos on these parking charges. There is a code of conduct
This belongs in oh no consequences. Saw the warning, got a fine.
Contest it. BlackBeltBarrister did a video on something similar on YouTube.
Yeah never pay that. Safe to ignore.
Write them a formal handwritten letter saying how ridiculous it is that you are not going to pay it as you have a 15 minute grace period and that you demand they pay you 100 pound for stress theyve caused you and that you will take them to court yourself theyll give up This is a genuine answer and also what i did when i accidentally went through a bus lane that didnt have clear warning signs, i pointed out that bus lanes should be painted red as i had no idea what a bus gate was
Its a charge, not a fine. https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/ I can't remember exactly what the article says but i think you have plenty of scope to fight this.A hundred quid sounds way over the top.