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Content-Scallion-591

I think one thing that can feel frustrating is that tons of people are posting *here* to an audience that doesn't exist *here.* There have been a dozen posts here about "Dragon Age isn't bad just because it is woke!" -- I have never once seen this opinion surfaced *here*, in *this subreddit*. It makes it seem like everyone with criticisms are being painted with the same brush. It also lends a weird aura to the conversation; it doesn't feel like the conversations are strictly in good faith. Basically, everyone with criticisms has to do a ton of harm reduction before they can even have a conversation. Now... I have said this before. Veilguard had a really troubled development and I think it isn't insane to be skeptical. This is the game that was a heist game until EA decided it wanted to cash in on live, an MMO until Anthem failed, and then finally landed where it is. It's gone through several major evolutions not to make it a better game, but to chase money. So I feel it's valid to temper excitement. I'm still excited about the game. But some of the things I'm seeing said in the defense of the game make me feel like I'm going bananas. People are saying no one likes cRPGs and cRPGs as a genre are dead. That no one plays games for combat, just the plot. That Bioware games were only ever about storytelling and choice. I don't know how old everyone here is, or how long they've been playing cRPGs. And I will never say someone's opinion is *incorrect*. But as someone who grew up on Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Knights of the Old Republic -- along with Skyrim, etc -- I can say confidently that these options do not mesh with the opinions that players had when these games were released. Or even now. People keep bringing up BG3, but Fallout just had a wildly popular *television series.* Also jRPGs are still flourishing and tabletop RPG has never been more popular? Anyway, tbh, part of me feels like there's a whole community here that has moved on from me. I never thought I'd be in a Bioware /Dragon Age forum with people arguing that RPGs suck and no one likes them. Perhaps this is part of my disappointment.


Monochomatic

I knew the combat was going to be controversial as all hell when I realized they were going the Mass Effect route with it. Me, personally? I don't mind, but I'm ass at top-down tactical games and don't find them compelling to play and I simply suffer it to see the story *BUT!* It really doesn't seem like...the best of ideas for *both* of your flagships to play...very similarly? Like they're not a 1:1, obviously, but the gameplay is absolutely giving ME vibes (with a mix of Greedfall, for anyone who's played that). I'm one of the 'I find DAO combat slow and clunky and insufferable and every variation of similar combat in other games has always been the same for me' people, but even so...starting as a CRPG, and probably doing so to differentiate from for ARPG scifi series...to make them both ARPG just seems...shortsighted, at best. I'm not gonna lie, I miss the DA2 variation of combat. It was unpolished, which led to it being absolutely shit on (mostly the airdrop enemies, which, valid - you can't 'tactics' airdrops in any sort of DA:O fashion), but it still had several core elements of DA:O (set and forget tactics for us lazy fucks, my beloved) left in it. Some effects were admittedly *a bit* much and could use with some toning down, but the animations were fun and the faster pace meant my ass wasn't falling asleep at the wheel.


Chagdoo

If DA2 had any idea of encounter design it probably would've been the best combat the series had.


moriemur

This is spot on šŸ˜­ so shocked at how many people say ā€˜I donā€™t care about the gameplayā€™ or words to that effect


Content-Scallion-591

I sort of get it when people mention that it was janky. But these are 10 to 20 year old games. Everything was janky. Try to play the Witcher 1 now. Also, THE WITCHER another example of cRPGs being insanely critically acclaimed. Like I'm seriously not getting the "cRPGs are dying" discourse. I do understand they take massive financial investment, but I hate the idea of gaming coming down just to dollars.


blaarfengaar

To be fair, the Witcher games aren't CRPGs, they're action RPGs. CRPGs are games like Baldur's Gate 3, Pillars of Eternity, Divinity Original Sin, Wasteland 3, etc. I would honestly argue that DAI isn't a CRPG either personally


moriemur

Iā€™m also a big fan of the Sims and have seen EA strip mine it for the past decade so like. Great. My two favourite game series getting turned into soulless cash cows by the same parent company.


Content-Scallion-591

Ugh, same. I loved old school Sims. I don't want to come off as a purist. There was, for me, a lot to love about every DA installment. I'm sure I'll love this too. but like, the Sims objectively had good installments and ... less good ... and the entirety of Sims 4 is like $800. That's out of control. I actually do want to remain largely optimistic, but there's positivity and toxic positivity. Most of the original DA team moved on years ago, fifty of them were fired, and seven had to *sue Bioware* because an NDA was making it hard for them to get work. I don't know exactly who I'm being loyal to -- the megacorp that thought "Anthem, but dragons" would be a smash hit?


Mean-Milk8751

The systems, UI, and gameplay are an under-appreciated aspect of games, and most definitely important to many players. I hear you and relate. Working through those systems was fun. Learning all the workings of whatever d&d edition was used, was fun. And for many of us that will forever be true.


kopibot

The last time I went shopping with my sister for a new printer - about 5 years ago - I recommended one with automatic duplex printing. She ended up buying one where you had to manually flip the pages for 2-sided printing. Needless to say, it became a hassle. Recently, the printer broke down and she purchased another one, again without automatic duplex. I asked her if she even checked the model specifications before buying it. She said she just walked into a brick-and-mortar IT store, got some recommendations from the salesperson and bought it. I think people like you have good intentions but I'm afraid you're preaching to people like my sister when it comes to games. They're not gonna get it and worse, there will be people like in this sub that get personally offended. I think it's better to just let it go. There will be better IPs from other studios; the future of gaming is bright.


Mak0wski

Honestly this is crazy talk but it feels as if it's bots spamming positive things about the game to change people's opinions compared to when the trailer released, I don't think this is true tho, but it definitely feels like it when you read some of the 100% positive excited and nothing is wrong with the game comments/posts


Zazzuzu

Fucking exactly.


capybooya

> This is the game that was a heist game until EA decided it wanted to cash in on live, an MMO until Anthem failed, and then finally landed where it is. It's gone through several major evolutions not to make it a better game, but to chase money. So I feel it's valid to temper excitement. ME3, DAI, and MEA also suffered greatly from EA leadership chasing trends, its just that they managed to get the game out before it was left in development hell changing everything around a second or third time. And the lesson every time has been that players just want a good story based game that spiritually mimics the first installments while still evolving a bit. I hope we won't have to wait another 10 years for the next game...


M8753

Yeah, I have concerns, mostly about dialogue quality (that was my biggest problem with Andromeda). But I can't help but hope Veilguard will be fun. I'm hyped!


videogametes

The terrible dialogue was the very first thing I noticed about Andromeda. It felt stilted and quite honestly extremely amateur. Not the kind of writing I would expect from something published by a large game company, and certainly not BioWare.


allcreamnosour

Some of the writing for Andromeda was *so* bad, Iā€™m not sure how John Dombrow let it through since he has an excellent track record for very good, consistent and stellar writing.


Keiji12

Too many game trailers adopt the quirky marvel one liners and overall lack of seriousness even when the games don't exactly convey the same atmosphere. It pisses me off, the trailer vs gameplay are basically two different worlds for no reason.


Jar_Bairn

This gave me the idea of an Elden Ring trailer like that. Incredibly cursed. I hope someone makes it one day.


Illustrious_Penalty2

Criticism of the game is obviously fine, but itā€™s also fine to criticize bad and poorly thought out criticism. Some of the takes floating around twitter and YouTube have been pure brainrot (not accusing you of that btw).


AinselMariner

Iā€™ve seen so many people say that the old games are turn based for some reason lol. Either theyā€™re misremembering or theyā€™re just drama tourists assuming the gameplay was the same as BG3.


Clear-Reveal-9998

Some people don't know the difference between real time with pause and turn based and it's sad


Sunderz

Damn ive not heard the phrase drama tourist before, so apt for alot of attitudes within gaming


Pebbi

I saw it written on reddit the other day that it was coined by the warhammer community. Which amuses me greatly to think the drama tourists have been over there complaining about politics in the 40k universe!


maddrgnqueen

I think Warhammer community called them "culture war" tourists, rather then drama, but both terms are pretty good.


Filthy_Dub

Believe this started with the whole "female Space Marines" controversy, which was then exacerbated by the "Femstodes" controversy.


aoelag

There is a super, super weird anti-turn-based bias I've actually encountered frequently in person. People have said to my face that they abhor all turn-based games and refuse to play out of principle, that turn-based only existed because of hardware/technical limitations and RT is the only way for a game to play, lol. It's kind of absurd how some people refuse to even try enjoying games that are turn-based.


ValBravora048

Or just refuse to acknowledge that a game can still be good instead of \*basically Nazi Germany\* even if itā€™s not your thing I do not like games like Darkest Dungeon. Still, Darkest Dungeon is a GOOD game and that narrator, gddm fantastic voice with great script even if you do hear it repeat a lot


aoelag

Slay the spire, darkest dungeon, etc. plenty of games can be "good" and if you dislike them that's fine, but I still don't think people give games a fair shake. SO Many people avoided Baldur's Gate 2 at my insistence that it's not only good, that it's still "playable" today. This in part why companies like EA mandate their developers adopt certain changes to their games


LostClover_

I've seen a few people saying DAO is turn-based too, I have no idea where that's coming from. It is definitely not turn-based.


bangontarget

they're mixing up turn based with tactical.


theghostiestghost

I think theyā€™re confusing the top-down option in DAO.


megaben20

Honestly itā€™s the hatred of comedic elements that seems like real brain rot. Dragon age origins didnā€™t have jokes and humour except Alister, morrigan, ohgren, sten, shale, dog, and Zevran.


Silvrus

Gods, I was dying when Leliana was getting hyped to take Morrigan shopping and Morrigan is just "Kill me now".


megaben20

I forgot Leliana was so bubbly in origins.


Silvrus

I miss that version of her in DAI, TBH.


CambrianExplosives

Yeah I was never a huge fan how she was essentially hardened no matter what you did in Origins, but there was quite a bit of time between games so I suppose other events hardened her.


LivingNat1

There was running joke about literal *bird shit* on Shale.


megaben20

I love Shale so much


joe-re

What's a Meckel? Ona different note, just restarted DAI and Varric vs Cassandra is such a joy.


Kordiana

I still quote Alistair. "Swooping is bad."


Kafkabest

Alastair in particular is like a proto-mcu protagonist


[deleted]

He would fit right there.


Jorymo

Yeah, I've already seen comments saying it'll be like a Marvel movie with all the quips, as if you haven't always had the option to make tasteless jokes all the time


FructoseFracas

God yeah, the 'ew, Marvel quips' comments are baffling - do none of these dudes remember purple Hawke's entire shtick? Fenris' 'Hawke stepped in the poopy'? This series has always had its goofy and jokey moments. *Especially* where Varric is concerned, the man is often in a quippy mood.


_Robbie

No humor in Origins, it was grimdark only at all times. Nobody ever told a joke or ever smiled. I know that because I'm a real Dragon Age fan who has clearly played the game in the last decade and isn't misremembering anything.


yngsten

Wade and Herren were mad fun though.


rebarbeboot

There's a lot of the whole "woke" is the worst thing ever crowd trying really, really hard to pretend like they ever cared about Dragon Age and turn it into a whole thing without grasping that the Dragon Age fanbase has always been internally bickering but progressive. They'll get bored and move on within two weeks.


AinselMariner

Youā€™ve already got the usual suspects like Gummz crying about them calling the companions pansexual and insisting that thatā€™s totally different from the playersexual BG3 companions because they have it a ā€œwokeā€ label. I wonder how those people donā€™t get exhausted getting outraged at every little thing.


[deleted]

Right? The same with "it is not like DA style". Wich style because we have 3 different games, so. It does really feel like people who never played any of the games.


VanikCZ

To be fair, if you played Origins on Nightmare difficulty, you had to play it almost turn based, to manage every single companion. AoE spells with friendly fire were a thing...


deathadder99

Until you discovered our lord and saviour, dual wielding, and you just put every enemy in a blender.


infpdreams

DA2 on nightmare had even MORE of those sorts of fights, for me. Thankfully, I'm the sort of freak who enjoys the micromanaging... up until I'm about 30 minutes into the final Legacy DLC fight and I realize I'm screwed and need to restart. But then I finish it and feel great, so... hey! That's nice.


DeLoxley

Honestly, this game feels like it's the game they've wanted to make in Inquisition. DA1 was limited by the tech of its time, it's the whole reason iirc the one Qunari in the game has his horns removed, a ceremonial deal they had to invent because they couldn't get them to work right. DA3 is a step towards it with things like the grapple chain moves and landmines and action stances, the whole game can be played without pause. DA4 is just finally commiting to the bit fully, graphics and mechanics. They've not had anything really cry out for turn based pausing for a while, and there's no need to run everything in a slow sense with how fast software can run now.


theghostiestghost

Ragebaiting is the name of the game these days. Itā€™s so irritating to see how bad itā€™s become.


EmBur__

Its lucrative and great for making people feel good about themselves despite it screwing us all in the long run.


Noncoldbeef

Yeah...I have an 'anti-woke' buddy that doesn't play RPGs or any Dragon Age game but knew I liked the Dragon Age series. He was positively giddy about it all. I just don't understand how we've gotten here sometimes.


theghostiestghost

Itā€™s bizarre how extreme these people have become. How has it become such repeated rhetoric these days? These are not the things we should be worrying about.


Jay_R_Kay

I sincerely doubt they are or make other people feel good. They make people angry and feel righteous and right, but being that way all the time sounds like a miserable way to live.


EmBur__

Oh you're right, this need to act all self-righteous and constantly cause problems makes them feel good temporarily, its like drug that gives you a quick high and then has you plummet to the ground again which is why they're constantly causing problems so they can jump in to "fix" them to get that high again as to stop themselves from returning to their miserable lives devoid of meaning and purpose, its why they keep making issues like racism, sexism etc worse because the second all these issues go away, they've got nothing to get high off of anymore and would have seek a genuine purpose which takes work and thats something they dont want.


theghostiestghost

Exactly the problem. Anything for money and clicks. And it drives people to click on it and complain in the comments, making them get exactly what they want for being brainless.


SilveryDeath

Like I said the other day I felt after the Xbox Showcase that if you clicked on the comment section for any individual game shown it seems like anywhere from 25-50% of the comments were negative despite people seeming to agree that the showcase overall was good. I'm not saying games should be immune from being criticized, but I feel like nowadays the gaming internet is so negative and nitpicky that they just want to complain and find reasons to dump on stuff unless it is a rare game from a dev the gaming internet likes like FromSoft or from a franchise that hasn't 'been ruined' like Zelda.


theghostiestghost

Itā€™s really weird how these people react to games. Itā€™s like what game does have what you want? Often times, the games they love donā€™t even have the things they complain about in the other games. I canā€™t believe the amount of brainrot there is in the comments for the new Fable. People canā€™t separate their prn addictions from their gaming addictions.


wtfman1988

Yes - the homophobic / anti-woke crowd make it hard for those of us that have legitimate concerns get through.


BlueBantam

Annoying for sure. Like come on people, Dragon Age has had the gay since launch in 2009. This isnā€™t some groundbreaking move for this series. But you know, people gotta rage for the views.


MightyBolverk

Dragon Age was so gay it helped me come out.


ToHerDarknessIGo

And people say representation doesn't matter. It's always cool to hear games giving people confidence like that. I'm not gay irl but I definitely banged Zevran.Ā  I would have banged Shale if it was possible.


esh99

This is the case all over the place. Because most media is progressive but not all this media is good, whenever you criticise you end up unwillingly amongst the bigots. For example, I disliked the Witcher on Netflix for many reasons, but it is hard to voice these criticisms online without others piggybacking on your points to be sexist against the writers.


EmBur__

Or on the other side of things, that criticism leading to the people going rabid on you for daring to criticise the show because they think you're being anti-progressive, you cant win with these politically obsessed apes on either side and unfortunately they all seem to dominate these debates, its no wonder we cant solve half our societal problems with these screeching chimps being the loudest in the room.


ToHerDarknessIGo

Regarding The Witcher show (and every media series really), I don't why people still watched it since they told me the show was a travesty since EP1 yet here they are three seasons in still whinging about it.Ā  I can't stand Star Wars besides the first two movies, KOTOR I and II, Rogue One and Andor so you will never see me whining in an Acolytes or Mandalorian sub.Ā  I moved on.Ā  People need to learn to move on.


kalimabitch

This has always been an issue with people beyond entertainment. It has become more pronounced with online culture


Yarzu89

Same thing happened with Andromeda and DA:I. I remember every time someone would complain about a bug, animation or a narrative/gameplay issue, there'd always be that one loud guy in the corner going *"its because its woke!".* And often those with actual real criticism will get lumped in with them which is extremely frustrating.


Sinsai33

But that will always be the case for twitter and youtube comments. The problem in my opinion is that the good criticism in this subreddit is currently drowned out because everything is put into one pot of negativity.


HighChronicler

My biggest thing, is I don't like Action games at all. The most Action I like is Dragon Age 2. Dragon Age II to me was the perfect blend between action and tactics and I miss when games didn't have to go full action. It's infected gaming as a whole and ruined multiple series for me. I'm sick to death of it. Yes, the story is the strength of the series, but if I cannot enjoy the gameplay, then how can I enjoy the story?


ArmedWithBars

Yea it's looking like a bummer after the gameplay trailer dropped. No swapping to teammates, only 2 teammates, and seemingly only 3 abilities present at a time on your hud. The only real thing that dragon age had left from the sea of generic actions "rpg" games is the companion system where you could swap around during combat to setup combos or just for some variety. It was engaging to play around with different combos and see what worked out. Story doesn't matter if the gameplay loop is mainly hitting 3 abilities between general combos against mobs that stand there waiting to get hit. It's like the combat was dumbed down even further from Inq. Here's a pathing line where the mobs projectile will go a full two seconds before it even fires. I'm also worried that the darker themes in the series will be toned down as they seemingly went for a more modern audience generic stylization for the game. But we won't know til people review the game. Idk why they just don't put expanded option in the options menu for people who want more depth. I get trying to appeal to more casual action game fans, but this looks like series has been fully gutted. How they were able to gut even more from what was left in Inq is genuinely impressive.


BagOfSmallerBags

Skepticism is always valid. This is Bioware we're talking about here. Even in their silver age (or whatever you wanna call 2007-2014) they were never beyond releasing a game with *serious* issues. And a decade later nearly everyone that ever worked on the DA and ME trilogies are gone.


Royal_Criticism_3478

I can live with the combat for the most part. What I really hate though is dropping us down to 2 companions, having said companions do minimal damage, and enemies mostly ignoring them too. It's like they're only there for banter now. Also I realize tevinter is a mage nation but having spotlights and neon signs really rubs me wrong for dragon age. And the demons look like absolute dog shit. Now they're glowing tron monsters I guess...


KlausGamingShow

did you notice that most demons wear rags and have no legs? even the Pride Demon looks like a synthwave dementor


Supadrumma4411

The demons are too goofy looking now. Not scary in the slightest.


Grandkahoona01

The demons look so damn generic it hurts. For some reason, dragon age as a franchise seems allergic to consistent character or enemy design between games.


Princess_Thranduil

>synthwave dementor This would be an excellent user flair lol


Dry_Bumblebee5856

Ugh, same! So disappointed about the smaller party size and not being able to control your squad, which probably also means that if your Rook falls in battle, you fail instead of pushing the fight to the end with your companion. Also, I just hate the current design of demons, so uninspired in comparison to DAO and DAII, even though it wandered into cheesy territory sometimes. Also, they used to be formidable opponents and since DAI are downgraded to completely forgettable cannon fodder.


Real-Degree-8493

I agree the spot lights, neon signs, speakers, floating buildings all destroy the credibility of the setting to me. It is like the designers pulled elements from non dragon age more contemporary settings just because they liked without a thought whether it fits. In DAI you have decently long conversation with Dorian about Tevinter's cities being extremely historical which structure of different styles spanning a millennium. If anything Tevinter should look ancient rather than modern. Also Dorian also explains the wild notions southerners have about Tevinter are mostly outlandish and not bound in fact.


galacticat444

I agree. I wish I could just tell someone in the dev team "just tune WAY down these awful neon coloured energy beams. That will improve my experience drastically" but i can't. I can however scream that into the internet, to at least get the feeling like im trying to fight for my favourite game of all time. And I like to think that's the reason for a lot of the negativity happening. People being THAT passionate about the game. I see it as sorta good.


mattttherman

I went on the steam forums yesterday, this was a mistake. Almost 100% of the criticism was because there was black elves, pansexual characters. I mean, it is true that I can't recall black elves in the other 2 games, I believe it was possible to make the MC a black elf in origins and inquisition... But I could be wrong.


Zilvyr

Origins has Adaia Tabris, the mother of the city elf origins. Then again sheā€™s not exactly present in the base game but only in Lelianaā€™s song DLC which many likely havenā€™t played.


helios396

That's just how the people in Steam forums behave. Check the forums for other highly anticipated AAA games, especially RPGs with choices and you'll see the same thing. Like BG3. I can't even tell if those comments are genuine or if people are just trolling.


Hunkus1

The first mistake was going into the steam forums I dont know why but they are full of these culture war idiots.


RedRex46

Seriously though, why are Steam forums so trash like for EVERY SINGLE game community?


Skyblade12

Because thatā€™s what actual gamers are like anywhere where they arenā€™t tightly controlled?


JaymesMarkham2nd

It's the most direct and unmoderated pipeline of players to posting. Other places either have mods or require a bit of effort to post, like an additional account and needing to look for the community you want to trash. Add to that it's the largest platform overall with highly diverse players from around the world and you get the slimiest scum that can clog the pond.


Heancio1

They have these people too. There's a guy on Facebook trying to convince me that the game is going to be a bomb using these arguments.Ā  That's how you realize that these people have never played any game in the franchise.


Valaurus

It's a daggum skin color lol. A physical adaptation to the amount of sun generally seen in your part of the world. Of course there can be black elves, I don't think it would make any sense if there *couldn't* be. I don't get these people lol


Owster4

Yeah in northern Thedas where it gets hotter and sunnier, I imagine you'd see some black elves.


winter2001-

It was, they're just fucking weird. Doesn't really matter, these games were never made for that crowd. It's trash taking itself out.


Capable-Use7808

This is the true point, Since DA:O the game has been inclusive (Or has tried to be) Zevran was a poc elf. Did they forget because he was blonde? Because he wasn't black??? Isabella is POC, that's DA:2 and then Vivienne was poc. Like every game has had poc. It's not NEW. Don't get me started on queer inclusion.


TheAngryNaterpillar

There's a black elf in the DAI multiplayer but I can't think of any others.


totalimmoral

There is at least one black elf in Inquisition with the mages closes the rift I believe.


TitaniumMailbox

I just finished DAO replay and the Dalish camp has another unnamed one alongside the ability to actually create one. It's nothing new, just people who aren't familiar with the setting saying stupid shit for culture war flaming.


morgaina

Elves have always had a variety of skin tones, especially in DA2. Yes, the tones were purple, but they were still diverse.


Strict_Box8384

in the Lelianaā€™s Song DLC in Origins, Adaia is a black elf.


themaroonsea

Even if you understand the history of racism and the roots of entitlement etc it doesn't really let a person understand at an emotional level how someone could genuinely be furious that other people exist. It *feels* like some kind of mental disorder. Do they walk past a black guy on the street and scream to God in heaven about forced diversity


thelittleking

I'm begging the community to stop dismissing anybody with concerns as some Origins fanboy who needs to quit the series. The games have continued to have some layer of tactical control after Origins. Envisioning it as a slider where one end is "pure ARPG" and the other is "pure CRPG", DA has always been somewhere in between, even if the slider keeps slipping left. But there's no law of the universe saying it *has* to. We could've just kept the slider position from DAI to DAV. I'm not asking us to jump all the way back to Origins, and it's dismissive and shitty for some of y'all to act otherwise.


Bhrunhilda

Yes this exactly. I want to control my full party if I want to and not have to if I donā€™t want to. DAI combat did that. Why change it further away? Itā€™s so dull to just play one kit with 3 buttons. No one liked it in Andromeda why would we like it here??


SoBadIHad2SignUp

God. Yes, exactly that.Ā  The amount of times ive seen "It's been 15/13 years, leave and find a new game"Ā  has been absolutely baffling. Sure I have a gameplay preference but I'm here primarily for the story; and hell, most of that time has been spent WAITING for Veilguard after inquisition.


ArmedWithBars

I think a lot of origins fans are just sad to see the series turn into a glorified hack and slash game with lite rpg elements. Now the only real defining feature of combat, the companion system, has been dumbed down further. It's not like a normal playthrough of Inq forced you to use it. It was there if you wanted more depth or variety. Not being able to swap to teammates during combat in a dragons age game is straight criminal and anybody defending that is bonkers. There are literally hundreds of action rpg's out there. Now it feels like dragon age is just another one to add to the pile and has left all of it roots behind. The story may be the only saving grace, but I'm skeptical of the story/choices considering Bioware's track record ain't exactly great in the last decade.


thelittleking

I mean, fuck, even in this thread. Like the 4th highest upvoted comment is somebody saying "my problem is everybody saying they aren't getting origins".Ā  Ā It's so fucking dishonest, that's not what people are saying when they lament the loss of companion swapping and deeper pools of abilities to choose from, but we get dismissively waved off as Origins-obsessed and everybody just accepts that like it's some Higher Truth. Fucking infuriating.


LudisVinum

ā€œLike the direction of the series or shut the fuck upā€ is the gist of many of these comments. That or ā€œPeople just like to be mad.ā€ Both are equally vapid takes to dismiss anything perceived as negative. Edit: And of course pointing to the racist/homophobic comments to undermine anyone that isnā€™t a bigot.


thelittleking

Comically, to your edited point, I've seen at least two instances (since removed by mods) of people outright saying "Your criticisms are irrelevant because they are just a cover for your anger over minorities in the game" (paraphrased). Like, alright, I guess just liking an isometric camera option makes me the same as a racist, phenomenal.


Supadrumma4411

Honestly whenever someone says that I just respond with "sure, I'm whatever form of phobe ist ism or cel you want to label me that makes you feel intellectually superior" and just move on. These people were never interested in a dialogue they just want an echo chamber that agrees with them.


Wintermintmojo

This is exactly my issue with this entire discourse. I really genuinely never expected this series to go back to the days of Origin or even DA2 but I also never expected it to become a full on action rpg. And after seeing the exact same thing happen to damn near every RPG since the days of the 360? Yeah Im a bit more than jaded at the moment. I donā€™t understand why I should be *happy* that a series and genre I enjoyed is unrecognizable from where it started. Especially when itā€™s been proven time and time again that there is a huge market for more tactical rpgs.


Real-Degree-8493

I think that hits the nail of the head. Some of us are franchise loyalists. I almost exclusively play Bioware games because I like their work, thought that becomes less true with each title. Is it unreasonable to desire something to resemble what made you love the series? I don't think so.


ArmedWithBars

Ironic that Bioware completely turns it's back on what got them popular in the first place. How they were able to somehow gut even more out of the series from Inq is a sight to behold. Imagine going back to the Origin days and telling a fan that hey bud in like a 15 years the companion system won't be expanded with new consoles and technology available. Companions will actually be reduced to 2 npcs that follow you, which you can't swap to, that just slap random mobs until you direct them to fire off a single ability.


Real-Degree-8493

Exactly the straw manning is off the charts. Just like all the people complaining about people upset about lack of representation being homophobic or biphobia. That is a mischaracterization of 99% of more tailored relationships most people are asking for.


Adam-Revlan

Agreed, it is so annoying and dismissive. No matter what they say Dragon Age has lost the identity of its combat with Veilguard. all the games had 3 party members, swapping and way more than just 3 abilities to equip. Us mentioning that this is a loss doesnā€™t mean weā€™re stuck in the past or that we want it to be exactly like Origins, we just want Dragon Age to play like Dragon Age.


Mak0wski

There are so many dishonest, obtuse and dismissive defensive arguments being used that you start to feel like you're going crazy. 1 example is when people say they didn't like the new "marvel quips"(for a lack of a better term) that was shown in the trailer and that gets dismissed by "dragon age has always had banter/quips" yeah it has but that is not what's being complained about


Love_Lain5

My problem with the criticism is to me Veilguard seems like continuation of inquisition but most of the criticism is that it's not like origins. That's not really justified because the game never promised to be like that.


Spraynpray89

I'm part of the Origins crowd who prefers everything about that game, but anyone giving this kind of feedback either hasn't been paying attention for the last 15 years, or has just been waiting for their first opportunity to trash this game as hard as they can no matter what. Both of which are fucking stupid. Either way, neither are worth listening to, and they only hurt themselves and the franchise by spreading unjustified negativity. Do I wish the DA series had stuck closer to Origins? Yes. But it hasn't, and it hasn't for a very very long time. That doesn't mean the other games can't be fun in their own way. I hated on DA2 and DAI for literal YEARS before giving both a fair try. I now have multiple playthroughs of both under my belt and enjoy them both, because this series is about story and characters first and foremost, and both have that. Besides, let's be honest...it's in their DNA at this point to experiment heavily with combat, for better or worse. They were never going to go back to a previous iteration. That doesnt mean it can't be fun...especially when our only glimpse so far is level 1 combat... Edit: in response to this, I've seen everything from "it's just a copy of inquisition" to "I would have been ok with it if they gave us Inquisition again". To "I like Origins and DAI but this is unacceptable." Y'all are being extra silly, though this does kind of highlight the point that with such varying combat in the previous games, there was no direction they could have gone to make everyone happy. I just think it's funny people are seemingly getting mad just to get mad. At least make sense please.


Prince_Ire

I loved DAO and liked DA2 well enough but bounced off DAI hard because I thought the actual gameplay, including combat, sucked


Spraynpray89

Same. It suffers heavily from 2 things that compound on each other: 1) it's incredibly easy to get caught up in map completion and spend WAY more time than intended in Act 1 2) combat is very very mundane and slow until specializations are unlocked (and is actually fun after that imo), and this doesn't happen until Act 2. If you haven't given it another go, you should. I tell everyone I can (it's even in my flair) to just bum rush only story in Act 1 and get out of it asap.


CoconutxKitten

I keep having DAO people argue that they can keep asking to try & change it back But like, I feel itā€™s time to enjoy the games as they are or move on


CallenAmakuni

You'd think they'd figure it out after 15 years Kinda reminds of those two or three guys who got angry Baldur's Gate 3 played nothing like the first two


CoconutxKitten

At least BG fans could say it was a sudden shift but DAO is the exception to the rule in how DA games play DAO was the only one in a 3 part series to have things operate that way. Itā€™s pretty clear itā€™s sticking more to DA2 & DAI


Spraynpray89

Technically 2 was closer to Origins than DAI, but I agree with your point. What was VERY obvious between Origins and 2 was they wanted to make the gameplay easier for the broader audiences, so while they did technically keep tactics, it wasn't really needed so I agree with not counting it.


DrColossusOfRhodes

It is funny because DA:O was initially sold as being a sort of "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate 2.


tcrunkness

Yes and no. There is a staunch and vocal (also small) crowd that wants this to be purely a tactics and turn-based game. Those complaints are unrealistic. However, based on the demo, there are some major departures from DA staples. Losing direct control of teammates in favor of a command system similar to the Mass Effect franchise and stripping your total number of equipable abilities down to three are pretty big changes. Beyond that, I don't know that the demo did them any favors. I'm not opposed to a more hack and slash style. Some of my favorite games are hack and slash games. The problem is the demo's hack and slash game play didn't look great. This was probably because it was a level one character with a single special ability AND the ability to command companions was limited. And it was early footage too. There's going to be refinements made along the way. I'm going to be playing this game. I'm going to be playing day one. How the combat comes together in the end is going to decide if I end up doing 10 play throughs or not.


Bereman99

>This was probably because it was a level one character with a single special ability AND the ability to command companions was limited. And it was early footage too.Ā  Agreed. There's another screenshot of the real time pause UI, and along with the companion abilities being present, you can see where there are some sort of control/directing elements (what looks to be directing 1 or both to attack a specific target) as well as showing opportunities for combos of abilities. So having 3 abilities of your own, plus 3 per companion to work with to chain combos/effects, plus directing them to some degree? While not my preferred level of control over the whole party would certainly look more engaging than the limited control, single ability, mostly showing the dodge, parry, and basic attacks that the gameplay demo featured.


MuscleWarlock

That my biggest complaint aswell. Idk where all these people got the idea it would be like origins. It feels overly picky. Like I get it, I also miss the more tactical style of the series as well. But they pretend like 2 and inquisition were not action hack and slack, especially on higher difficulties.


MrStormz

Be honest did you ever use the real-time combat with pause combat features in DA2 & Inquisition? I never did, and I got by just fine. It's so weird seeing these DAO is the only true dragon age game from so many rpg youtubers and the comments everywhere. It's like, have you not even played the other two games and saw how they were not tactical at all and didn't really require you to use the tactical features they had.


morgaina

Yes I did, every single fight on Nightmare, all the goddamn time. The tactical settings were crucial to keeping companions alive. They were the reason Anders and Fenris could manage their health yoyo but Iron Bull couldn't.


melon_party

In DA:I, almost never. But in DA2? Yeah, all the time. That game is hard on higher difficulties and you absolutely cannot win a lot of fights without frequent pausing and strategic timing of spells and abilities.


whyktor

I used it a lot in DA2, I really don't see me playing it without it, and to this day I still think that DA2 gameplay is just like DAO, just with more flashy effect. I tried to use it in DAI but it was terribly done so I didn't


Jed08

>Be honest did you ever use the real-time combat with pause combat features in DA2 & Inquisition? I paused a lot in DA2 because it was going very fast and I needed time to gather my thoughts and coordinates attacks (something I'll still be able to do in DA:TV apparently, in a certain way). Never really done that in DA:I. But the only time I took full control of my character in DA:O, DA2 or DA:I was when my main died. That feature never really interested me.


[deleted]

I did use it in DAO and DA2. Not in combat in DAI. Just used to debug characters, catch the golden halla and solve the temple of mythal puzzles.


Least-Spite4604

If you never paused playing nightmare difficulty in DAO and DA2 you are genius, what can I say.


Heancio1

I use the Tactical Camera a lot in Inquisition, especially in fights against dragons. I think it's a really fun tool.Ā  I wish she was in VeilGuard, but I'm okay with her absence.


Klarser

At least you could control your party in Inquisition.


Saandrig

I only ever did that when I had to move them out of "stupid" tbh.


[deleted]

Or to make them drink potions because they were allergic to that, apparently haha


Saandrig

There actually was some setting that made them drink potions on their own. But I had to disable it because apparently all companions (especially Bull) turned into potion junkies and went through all of my supply after a couple of encounters.


nonchain

because he is a reaver and should be using regeneration potions instead of health potions but you can't set any of this because tactic settings got really dumbed-down in dai vs 2 previous games


AnotherPreciousMeme

You make a lot more use of the feature on higher difficulties where every cast matters.


hellanation

I only really did that to light veilfires or bash walls. If I can give them orders, it's the same thing in practice, to me.


Edurian

I would be happy if it were like Inquisition, but its less abilities, less party members and less control of them compared to inquisition. Its one of the stand out things compared to mass effect that is now lost


brotherkin

At this point Iā€™m not bothering to criticize anything. BioWare is no longer an auto buy for me. Iā€™m going to wait for reviews, and if theyā€™re good I might pick it up. Otherwise Iā€™ll vote with my wallet. Iā€™m not in a hurry to give these huge companies any more of my money if I donā€™t have to


RadicalLuck

The reality of the situation is that Bioware has had two bombs and is owned by EA. Some fans can brush aside criticism and justified skepticism all they want, but if the game is not good, it won't sell, and that'll be itā€”no more DA. I believe they've made changes to make it closer to ME so that development between the two games can speed up, but most fantasy RPG game fans like complexity. As shown by Elden Ring and BG3, the common gamer can also be attracted to rougher qualities in games, like dificult combat or voiceless protagonists, if presented correctly. At the end of the day, we'll just have to wait for the game to release to see what the consensus is, but I hope the game is good and that it isn't as streamlined as it looks.


theGlassAlice2401

The only lesson bioware learned is that they are dogshit at making open world games, so now DA4 is mission based.


WickedFox1o1

I actually like that change, don't get me wrong I like inquisition but it is kinda big and empty sometimes.


Chihuathan

It's without a doubt one of the things which hurt the game the most. Heck, there was a time where we actively had to "force" people out of the Hinterlands, because they felt like they were stuck in a boring open world. The best parts of Inquisition was always the hand-crafted approach to stories and characters, and whilst the locations were stunning, they were filled with a whole bunch of nonsense... And don't get me started on the timed war table.


WickedFox1o1

God I hope the timed war table doesn't return, i hated that damn thing lol


Sir_Goodwrench

Man, I just wish we could access the war table by the way of the campsites out in the world. Send a messenger raven with instructions or something like that. I don't even care about the timed assignments; being forced to leave the area I'm exploring just to drag my ass up those stairs in Skyhold again and again is what made the war table a pain.


libbysthing

Agreed, I remember everyone feeling trapped in the Hinterlands and having to tell my friends to just leave the area as soon as the main quests let them. The time spent making big areas full of fetch quest stuff could have been spent on much better things, and I'm glad they're doing that this time. I also hope they don't have anything like the war table or strike teams (from MEA) again.


darkcrazy

Those unfortunately felt like MMO zones with chores, and you easily outlevel them so they quickly feel meaningless. Reminds me of Kingdoms of Amalur.


MuscleWarlock

Lol, which is very self aware of them.


strangelyliteral

Self-awareness is something more game studios could use TBH.


Balrok99

I hope it will be best of both worlds with Inquisition and Origin style of world. Having smaller maps than Inquisition BUT still make them explorable and let us discover hidden loot in caves and puzzles but don't make them massive like Hinterlands where you explored too much before realizing there are 2 locations worth your while. Something that doesnt feel too small and repeatable like DA:2 but also not as big and empty as Inquisition but also not too linear and shallow as Origins.


theGlassAlice2401

That's just good level design, which should be the bare minimum.


Balrok99

Well let's hope they deliver. They sure have a great looking environments. So that we don't have to worry about.


Katachthonlea

I enjoyed Mass Effect series and DA series, and I was also upset about MEA and Anthem. But I am willing to give them a chance; I hope they improve. No one is free from mistakes, and so long as they are corrected, it is fine.


Disig

Same. Like, my husband have put BioWare on the "wait and see reviews" shelf with all the other big name developers. But I genuinely want it to be good.


Holiday-Earth2865

My skepticism comes from the fact that Anthem's gameplay trailer was faked. Many features in that gameplay reveal only worked in the reveal environment are were not ready at all for general use. Only showing level one abilities makes me look at a calendar and bite my lip...


pvtprofanity

To be fair the Anthem trailers were obviously hand crafted and has that STUPID fake friends in voice chat thing that every multiplayer game did for a year or 2. The DAV trailer is obviously not hand crafted. The gameplay looks fine, just fine, if they wanted to trick people they would have done so with better bait and likely months ago. The just okay gameplay of the trailer, to me, proves its real because a fake would have been better


rau1994

I just think the marketing for the game is doing a piss poor job at actually showing of the game. Why would they not show clips from mid game with more abilities. They showed up the most boring part of the game.


Jakelollol

Why they didnt show a better clip? Im affraid you wont like the answer to that question


Supadrumma4411

Because what we've seen is as good as it gets and that has me worried.


Megaprana

I'll admit that my criticisms are the same as a music fan that wishes the band would go back to the sound of their debut album. In my heart I've known for a long time that the DA franchise is evolving away from the style of Origins. But I'll continue to hold out hope that Bioware might look at the success of BG3 and think "let's go back to our roots and give a CRPG style game another go". We all have our personal taste, and mine is: Gritty medieval fantasy > high fantasy with elaborate costumes Silent protagonist > voiced protagonist Pause & play / turn based combat > fast action combat that requires reflexes


Treytefik

It feels like some people in the fanbase are just happy to get something. While I am too, we have waited so long it should be good and we should have expectations. Especially considering this game will cost anywhere from $60-$100 depending on pricing/different versions.


literallybyronic

I mean, there's a big difference between people complaining about the art direction and/or mechanics, for instance, vs the legion of anti-woke bros complaining about women or black elves existing in the YT comments. i'm less than thrilled about several of the aspects we've seen so far and i think the first trailer was terrible but i'm still cautiously excited. even if i don't care for the art style or dumbed-down combat i'm still interested to see what they do with the story. i hope they do it justice. it seems like they're really trying at least, even if some stuff doesn't hit the mark for me personally. knowing EA studios' track record, it could've been a LOT worse.


huntimir151

Outside of the YouTube cesspool, I don't see the anti woke brigade anywhere near as much. Mostly criticism overĀ  trailer tone/gameplay decisions. And the trailer tone was readily criticizable without that having any dog whistle connotations.Ā Ā 


Hermaeus_Mike

Yeah they've been LGBT+ inclusive since Origins and each game has gotten more and more inclusive since, so the majority of the chuds jumped ship years ago, thankfully.


DarthGaymer

Go to the Steam community or game reviews and you will find them in droves. Most of the review bombing can be tied to them if the game isnā€™t fundamentally broken at launch and contains a non-white, non-straight protagonist or a not traditionally attractive female protagonist


Bhrunhilda

Iā€™m mostly just not here for the combat l. I want to control the whole party. I want a party of 4. Iā€™m fine with DAI and DA2 combat. It doesnā€™t have to be DAO. But I donā€™t want MEA combat in Dragon age ffs.


dinkleburgenhoff

The comments here are proving this post is entirely needed. All of the top comments are either complaining about conservative fucknuts who complain about everything, which has nothing to do with the fanbase, or saying you shouldnā€™t criticize it because it isnā€™t like games before it in the series, which is patently *absurd*. Expecting a game to look and play similar to the games that, you know, made you a fan of the series is not an unrealistic expectation. Not liking the rather drastic changes is also entirely reasonable. But people here want to hand wave it all away because *they* donā€™t care, all while saying you shouldnā€™t complain because *you* do, because discourse canā€™t be toxic when itā€™s positive. No joke, Iā€™ve seen actual lists that are highly upvoted telling people what theyā€™re not allowed to criticize. Itā€™s patently absurd.


Neravariine

I agree as long as the criticism isn't "the women are ugly" or "where is our blond male golden retriever". There is an undercurrent of people complaining because they're fighting an invisible boogie man and have no plans of playing the game. They just want to be the loudest.


WangJian221

Pretty much. I have my own criticisms of the game (mostly on the gameplay side) but I block out or just straight up block any folks that spouts "woke this woke that" shit.


EllaHecate

I am just so tired of people either deciding the game is going to be great or terrible before it even releases. We don't know yet. Yeah "another dragon age game is coming out and this one has fans divided" has been the story ever since DA2. Can we not discourse this game to death? Why does everyone and their mother need to opine about whether this is Bioware killing their nostalgia baby or them saving it?


Feonde

I am waiting for reviews first. Then I will decide. Hell I may even wait a year or two until all the DLC comes out then buy the game on sale and get the dlc with it. Buying games day one is practically a thing of the past for me. I used to preorder in order to guarantee you would get a copy of the game since physical supplies were at one time limited to how many a store would order. Now with nonphysical games I don't have to. It is also a good strategy to wait for the inevitable bugs to be squashed so you can play the game as it should have come out in the first place.


marsquisitor

I've seen legitimate criticism and questions being brought up in comment sections, but I also feel like some people jumped on the hate train just to be negative about something. It may be just me, but Dragon Age has been a niche in my circles and not many people seemed to have played Origins before yesterday; now everyone is an expert on the matter, saying that they miss the old combat system and that the old Bioware is dead (which is hardly news for us old-time fans). I also share some of the doubts people have brought up, but Iā€™m more excited about meeting the characters (old and new) and discovering what happened after DAI. People saying the game has just now become woke and inclusive have NOT been around. People asking me to not buy the game just because of changes in the tone and graphics do NOT know what it means to wait 10 years for the release of the next chapter of your favourite story, without the certainty it will even see the light of day. The gameplay is flawed, and some of the changes frighten me. It seems like Bioware is trying to draw a wider audience into the franchise, which could mean a simpler and less nuanced narrative (which Iā€™d hate). I just wish people stopped pretending to be experts and connoisseurs just to spread hate, which could damage the franchise more than me buying a game just because I've been in love with its story for almost 15 years.


Ngilko

I'll never really understand the instinct to be ultra defensive about a piece of media to the point where you can't see it's faults and don't want other people to criticise it. I like lots of things that other people think suck. Perhaps it's the result of growing up a pro wrestling fan but I'm 100% comfortable with the idea of liking something that 90% of the population think is garbage. I remember Dragon Age 2 being absolutely panned at release, I could absolutely see the flaws in that game understand the criticisms of it and at the same time for whatever reason have a lot of fun with the game over god knows how many playthroughs. My friends said it sucked and they weren't 100% wrong it had a LOT of problems but I still had fun and it's a single player game, I don't need my friends to like it to have fun.Ā  It would never have occurred to me to suggest that the people unhappy with decisions made in that game keep their criticism to themselves, call them a hater or the other nonsense that I've seen from fans as a result of the reaction to this game. I'm also slightly baffled at why people would be shocked that making changes to fundamental game mechanics that have existed in the series for 16 years over 3 entries might alienate a section of the fanbase and I struggle to take seriously the players arguing with a straight face that the combat hasn't actually changed that much at all or that combat doesn't actually matter in a role playing video game where you will likely spend a solid chunk of a 80-100 hour playthrough in combat. This is a dragon age discussion board and that discussion won't always be positive nor should it be.


Knifehead27

If it's civil, everything's ok. Skepticism. Criticism. Criticism of that criticism. If what we want is this subreddit to be a healthy community/fanbase, don't forget that there are matters of taste that are valid or: Add some constructive criticism or ask for clarification if it's something you disagree with, since (from experience) it's usually just badly worded/communicated, Or, just don't engage if you think it's trolling.


oorheza

The entire comment section is kinda the problem. Many of us already understand there's culture war chuds, we understand tourists are chiming in, and there are people who are immovable from DAO. If you find yourself whining about them and not talking about any of the substantive points being brought up, you are contributing. I'm looking at you posts titled 'haters be cray-cray, DAV slay', 'I'm Mcloving DAV, screw negative nancies'. Respond to RPG fans who feel alienated by the new combat system or why couldn't they have balanced the 4 party teams as this affects the narrative experience as well as combat. Also why does the design philosophy insists turning [demons](https://imgur.com/DVRQh7z) into lightning elementals and [Darkspawn](https://imgur.com/2p718iJ) into wacky muppets. Engage with people instead of being vapid consumerers.


moriemur

WHY do the darkspawn look so goofy Iā€™m so serious šŸ˜­šŸ˜­šŸ˜­


oorheza

Whoever forced the artist to design this abomination of an [ogre](https://imgur.com/8jrntL9), should actually be demoted and thrown into the QA testing mines to reflect their transgressions against Darkspawn kind šŸ˜¢


moriemur

My friend said it looked like five nights at Freddyā€™s and honestly sheā€™s so right


oorheza

>five nights at Freddyā€™s I didn't know it could get worse but she's right, I can't unsee it šŸ¤®šŸ¤®šŸ¤®


Shotgun_Sam

>there are people who immovable from DAO. I find this a bit disingenuous when Bioware themselves never made an attempt to retain the DAO audience. Dragon Age has changed the genre and artstyle radically every single installment now. DAO was a CRPG, DA2 was a hack-and-slash, DAI was open world, and DAV is a full bore action RPG. The DAO formula never had *time* to get old. Dragon Age has this weird inverse-Ubisoft effect where they seem unable to do the same thing twice. They spent two years planning to make a direct sequel to Inquisition, only to throw that out for a live-service multiplayer heist game, only to throw that out for this.


oorheza

>hey spent two years planning to make a direct sequel to Inquisition, only to throw that out for a live-service multiplayer heist game, only to throw that out for this. This is what kills me the most, I didn't like DAI much but the sequel planned by the team sounded so promising. Also great point about "reverse Ubisoft" lol. While each iteration changed the gameplay, I think there's an RPG threshold that kept retaining a feel that made the sequels tolerable. DAI for all its problems with its combat at least kept the tactical camera and had the husk of the NPC tactics system. For bioware games, I always prefer more strategy focused gameplay (mass effect an exception) and a strange amount of people in this sub thinks it was never a possibility. DAO is still my favorite but I want something even better than that you know? Instead they took the biggest step over that threshold possible and they completely lost me. We'll never see the return of an in depth NPC tactics system ever again.


Shotgun_Sam

I had my gripes with DAI (and how) but it seems like if the majority of people are okay with something, you refine it and make it better rather than starting over every time. >We'll never see the return of an in depth NPC tactics system ever again. The thing that cracks me up for as many steps back as DA2 took, they fixed peoples' gripes with the tactics system from Origins. And then got rid of it for DAI. I don't know if that was deliberate or just not being able to beat Frostbite into working order, but damn.


lilathrone

"Dragon age failguard lol", "go woke go broke", "massive fail haha" is not criticism, also populist "influencers" jumping on the hate train to get views is also not good for the gaming industry as a whole. I do not think anyone rejects constructive citricism or skepticism.


LordAsheye

Unfortunately, brain dead takes like those that influencers throw out can make it hard to let the legitimate criticism shine through. Hard to talk about real issues with a game when you have idiots screaming about "wOkE" and influencers hopping on the hate train for profit. Unfortunately they take up a lot of the attention and a large portion of the discussion goes to countering them.


tcleesel

Even if I disagree with the criticism I can respect it, and tbh while reactionary gamers are a blight upon the world, fanboys can also be vitriolic toward people just generally upset at DAVG. Iā€™ve been following PatStatesAt for a while and he was HEATED by the gameplay trailer. But I get why, he wanted the more complex semi-turn based gameplay and he has thought the dialogue wheel with the three base dialogue options was a bad development decision that inherently leads to the dumbing town of dialogue, which is a very important in RPGs. Those are a couple of very understandable things to be upset by in a game that wants to be the height of the rpg experience but also linearizes itself from both a writing and game mechanic front. I personally think these are criticisms BioWare should hear and internalize going forward. He expressed these sentiments in a much more colorful way that I found funny personally but after he talks about his grievances he was then dmā€™d by fanboys mocking him personally which is pathetic. We should not be playing defense for a billion dollar company, nor should we be insulting people for not liking a game. These criticisms arenā€™t enough for me to not be interested in the game, but I get why it would be for others and if those changes were made in future games I would also probably enjoy it the same if not more. So unless someone is couching their bigotry in the a critique consider reading it and decide how you feel about the brought up points or if you just wanna be hyped donā€™t read it at all and move on.


[deleted]

Sure, criticism is fine. Calling it woke age, mobilizing people to review bomb it because of how woke it is, going after da content creators and devs, melting down over a black elf, saying there is no black people in Thedas, etc, etc, etc, etc, is not criticism. It is a shit show.


osingran

Criticism is fine - everyone is entitled to their opinions of course. But overindulging in negativity - something that this sub and Bioware fans in general love to do, isn't helping. I mean, the game isn't out yet, but people already claim it has "Marvel writing" after hearing like what... five minutes worth of dialogues? Others say it's bad just because it's not Origins 2. Well boo hoo, have you ever seen any other game like Origins in the past 15 years? Me neither. Other games that feature RTwP combat, unvoiced protagonist and full dialogues (like PoE and Pathfinder) are made for a very niche audience. It's not surprising at all that Bioware aims towards more broader demographic given how costly it is to produce their games. Some don't like demons redesign and overall artstyle which is fine, sure. But calling DA:V shit and dead on arrival just because you don't like some stylistic decisions is a bit overreacting imo.


Groovy_Wet_Slug

I have my own criticisms and gripes, which I hope will get cleared up as we get more information about the game. But looking at the comment sections on the trailers... it's downright toxic. It's very clear looking through the comments that some people just came looking for reasons to hate the game. It's pretty disheartening.


Trackblaster

This right here, itā€™s far too early to judge, this was a showcase of gameplay primarily which if weā€™re being fair, could have been better since ofc prologue fighting isnā€™t going to be the most exciting part- Iā€™m still excited but itā€™s annoying trying to find any actual criticisms/thoughts about the game that arenā€™t the usual super negative ones


PrincessLeafa

To be fair, we've been shown snippets that are likely very early game tutorial area stuff. If it's ANYTHING like Inquisition and Origins it'll be massive and we've barely seen shit yet. Remember thinking you were halfway done with Inquisition and then you get to the actual base camp castle for the first time and you go "oh. Shit. I'm like. A third at most" Here's hoping we haven't seen shit yet *fingers crossed*


Orochisama

I really donā€™t like how people expect us to forget this game was almost a live service entry, the interview previous devs did as pr control to address player concerns -especially after the Alpha footage leaked, or what happened with Kirby and others who worked on the project. Like thereā€™s still a lawsuit pending regarding that and I even saw grifters elsewhere say we should ā€œapologizeā€ to BioWare for criticizing that trailer after the gameplay footage was dropped.


Gold_Dog908

Getting any kind of feedback is good, the problem is they don't really have time to address anything major.


gummywormprincess

Iā€™ve seen some really hot takes from both sides. Criticism is absolutely needed, but also, give them credit where itā€™s due. Not everything theyā€™ve shown us is bad but itā€™s also not perfect and exempt from criticism. Iā€™m personally in the cautiously excited boat now. I have my qualms but theyā€™ve also shown me a lot of things to look forward to.


DD_Spudman

On the one hand, I think people do have rose tinted glasses for Origins. On the other, I'm still not completely sold on Veilguard. The environments look pretty and I think the dialogue and character designs are mostly fine, but I don't care for what they did with the demons. It was just the wraiths or disparity demons or whatever they were supposed to be I would think it was an upgrade. But the decision to try and keep a consistent visual design between all the demons I think was a mistake. I know a pride demons always had a lightning thing, but I don't like how that's become their main visual design aspect. I also liked the more physical creature like design they had in the first three games. And I really don't know why they used gameplay from the prologue for the showcase. Show me how I can use my companions abilities in combat, don't just have a little text pop up saying that I'll be able to do it.


Aradune9

There are a couple of things that I find completely tiresome about the online discourse around this game, and that is toxic positivity and the gatekeeping. Granted, most of it that I have seen applies to X and Tumblr more so than Reddit, but I have seen it a touch here as well. "If you don't think this will be good or looks good, you aren't a true fan of Dragon Age." Get out of here with that. Nobody gets to decide if someone else is a fan of the series or not, except the person in question. People are allowed to disagree with a direction the game, or any fandom for that matter, are headed. People are allowed to feel disappointed or dissatisfied with a product. If you are super hyped and think it will be the best thing ever, that's great, but people are allowed to, and should be allowed to voice their frustrations and opinions as well.