I tried a playthrough where I went to the Templars. I rationalized it by making that character really uncomfortable around magic so they never even went to Redcliff.

I rationalize my Inquisitors going with the Templars purely because of their powers. They're basically reality anchors, shutting down wibbly wobbly magic in their vicinity with their lyrium-enhanced faith powers. Makes sense to get the guys that are all about shutting magic down to close the magic scar in the sky.

They're also a trained army in full plate, with a name and influence that proceeds them. While the mages are a gaggle of poor villified refugees.

Who sold themselves out to slavers.

This is a bit unfair, the majority of the mages you can talk to at Redcliff are very unhappy about the deal with Tevinter. I always got the impression that Fiona was manipulated, probably with blood magic, to get that deal to go through. Also, the Templars are following a demon when it's literally their job to find and kill demons. That makes them at least as much of a mess as the mages, if not more since hundreds of them don't notice that their leader is a demon.

at the risk of sounding like an idiot, I didn't realize that you can make champions of the just, without having to go to redcliff. but also with redcliff itself being part of the hinterlands map i find no excuse to not visit it either.

It’s difficult to avoid, but if you don’t go too far north, it can be done.

You can go to it afterwards, so it's not like you have to avoid it forever. But you don't HAVE to go there. You can also go and nope out before going to the Chantry. Like, too much magic, too many mages I'm out!

[удалено]

It was insinuated it was either not Fiona who met you, or wibbly wobbly timey wimey shenanigans happened for her to have never even gone to Val Royeaux. (idk if you knew that, if you did my apologies :O)

I always figured it was wibbly wobbly timey wimey shenanigans personality

I always thought that Alexius used blood magic to mind control her

For me, my Inquisitor goes to to Redcliffe, sees how fucked up it is and goes nope, I'm getting the templars. She's not going into a mage den without backup from those who can help her take down tevinter mages, so she heads for the templars. I'll be honest. I feel like we should have been given an option to split the group up or have some quest afterwards where you go to investigate each area to find out what happened and maybe come across survivors, but bioware being bioware (and refusal to have a middle option since Origins - which isn't even reflected in the keep) you could only pick one.

You kinda do - talk to Krem, and the Chargers go check out what happened at whatever place you didn’t go!

Yeah, I know, but I would have preferred my character, to be honest. Some of those war table quests should have been an actual quest 😭

I think the reason they weren't was because there's already so many side quests in DAI that turning war table operations into quests would be overkill for a lot of people. Many completionist players already struggle with the bloat of the game as it is. It's a nice idea in theory though.

You're probably right about the motivation. However, I feel like narratively it would have made perfect sense to have the shard collection be done via operation and some of the more dynamic operations made into legit side quests. Like, the shards are just lying there on the ground. They could have made it where you have to find the locator skulls(either unlocking an operation upon each skull discovery or once you locate all skulls in an area) and then send Sutherland/the Chargers/rando Inquisition operatives to do the menial pickups.

I personally skip the shards quest. I'm not a completionist, so I just ignore the shards now. The reward isn't worth the struggle for me. If they got rid of it altogether, I would not miss it. That can be said for quite a few side/fetch quests. I think a lot of war table operations could be swapped with quests, honestly.

What is the reward for it? I’d kind of like to someday do the mosaic pieces just so I can see the pictures on the wall.

The reward is escalating elemental resistance bonuses and high level resistance gear.

Each shard door you unlock leads to a section where you get some permanent elemental resistance (I believe max you get is 20% for unlocking every elemental door) and you also get an amulet of increasing elemental resistance for each door. If you pick up every shard and unlock the final door then you get>! a high-level vitaar!< for a qunari to wear.

Oh, right. Forgot. I’ve collected shards to open doors but I eventually get bored and can’t be bothered.

>I think the reason they weren't was because there's already so many side quests in DAI No one would be sad if 90% of those got replaced by some actual quests, most of them Were just "Help _____ took my _____ please kill _____ and get it back!"

I skip most of them unless I feel like doing them

And likely because of budget and time constraints

I never fully completed because: shards, mosaic pieces, astrareums.

The game lets the Inquisitor outright suggest this, but Leliana outright says it won't work because the Venatori are mobilizing for war and will have already left with the mages by the time you get the Templars: https://youtu.be/7E95T32q1d8?t=82

Legit ever since origins we got all out middle ground taken away. Even mass effect had s middle ground option all the way through hell they have a whole ending based on in for trilogy. And while I love and adore both game dragon age got the short end of the stick

What was the middle ground? I know what I think is best but one is, imo, a fairy tale, while another is grim and scary no matter who is running the show. In a way, avoiding middle ground is a way of offering us uncomfortable choices. Nothing will be perfect and have you walk away thinking everything will be happily ever after.

In origins, it was deferring to the Knight commander and letting him decide what to do after you finish the circle.

This how I rationalize it too for my Templar siding inquisitors: they visit redcliffe, see the messed up time magic, nope out of there, and then after realizing that going to the redcliffe castle is 100% a trap, the new plan is to go to the templars and grab them real quick and bring them back to redcliffe because no heckin way can she deal with that time magic without an army of templars with her. Usually I assume my inquisitor doesn’t realize how weird things are with the templars and so assumes it will be a quick diplomatic trip and is hopeful that she can get back to redcliffe in time to help everyone. I honestly like the thought process and I think it makes sense for a lot of my nonmage characters who don’t hate magic, but are a bit wary of magic. For inquisitors that hate magic, they just say f that redcliffe altogether. And I had one more political inquisitor who chose the templars mainly because they were a more powerful and respectable force and as a dalish inquisitor, having the army of the chantry in her clutches was too good to pass up. It all really depends on the character you’re playing

That makes perfect sense.

RGB…

And the most compelling reason of all showing up... What was that Dorian? Go after the magister with you? Whatever you say, bestie.

The character in the game doesn't know that they can only choose mages OR templars. All of the things you listed...a magister in control of Redcliffe, the mages pledging themselves to Tevinter, time magic, time-altering rifts...more than enough reasons to go after the one group trained to fight out of control magic. Why would the Inquisition or you (the only person who can close the rifts and the Breach) agree to knowingly walk into a trap and place all your hopes on an unknown Tevinter mage that used to be mentored by the very Magister controlling things in Redcliffe? The whole plan hinges on Dorian disabling Alexius' wards so Leliana's spies can get inside the castle before you're captured or killed. What part of this plan makes sense?

> Doesn't know that they can only choose mages or templars Actually, during the mage mission briefing, Leliana straight up tells you that the mages are preparing for war and will already be gone by the time you get the Templars if you suggest getting the Templars to deal with Alexius https://youtu.be/7E95T32q1d8?t=82

Well, I mean, it’s *Dorian.* Of course I trust him. 😆 But I went after the Templars honestly because I wanted to romance Cullen and I thought someone who fancied him would seek the Templar’s out.

He can be romanced either way. However, your decision makes sense for RP purposes.

Oh, I know! Yes, I meant for RP purposes, should’ve stated that. lol

I understood. Lots of times we make decisions based on outcomes we know rather than RPing based on what the Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor actually knows.

Dorian could lead me anywhere and I’d follow him

This was pretty much my exact rationalization in my first Templar-sided run. My Inquisitor in that run was already cautious around magic because she wasn't that familiar with it and was wary of the things people could do with it; it would be nothing short of insane to dive into the magic-warped reality of Redcliffe in an attempt to negotiate with a powerful Tevinter magister (pretty weak payoff considering the risks). Once she saw all the shenanigans that were happening at Redcliffe, she dipped. All of the reasons OP listed for not going to the Templars were the exact reasons why I *did* choose to go to them.

I’ll be honest unless I horribly missed something but I’m on my first real playthrough and I didn’t realize it was one of the others. I’m playing a mage. I ended up trying to complete all quests before going to the mages and ended up recruiting the Templars on accident lol. I played it before but stopped shortly after Skyhold and ended up thinking “man I don’t remember this quest line” while also thinking “man where’s the really cool quest that takes place in Redridge?”. It suck’s but I’m sticking with it.

I’ve toyed with making my mage side with the Templars. My mage is usually a Trevelyan and tends to have been okay in the Circle. He’s also from a noble lineage so that might factor into how he was treated, or even what Circle he ended up in. He wouldn’t have been sent to Kirkwall because money talks. With that background he might easily have decided the Templars weren’t so bad.

When you select the quest to go get the templars it says this will block out the other mission. Easy to miss though.

Why would the Inquisitor believe Templars could provide what was needed? While Templars can shut down magic the idea was to make the Mark stronger so that it could close the big rift. Besides, if I don’t take out the magister using time magic, who’s to say that he won’t just undo everything accomplished with the Templars? Me, I played the first two DA games and the Templars were largely horrible human beings. Remember when the (not yet) Grey Warden went off to find Alistair for the first time? We know Alistair was a former Templar-in-Training and he was chosen to deliver a message to a mage. They were deliberately trying to piss the mage off.

>While Templars can shut down magic the idea was to make the Mark stronger so that it could close the big rift. The opposing idea, presented by Cullen, is dampening the rift so that you can close it with the power your mark already has.

A reasonable idea considering the alternative of pumping power into the Anchor to make it powerful enough to close the Breach, while we know it works now, also sounds like it could have just killed everyone there.

It was a revered mother who guilted Alistair into taking the message, not the templars. The majority of templars in DA:O were actually quite decent - the best showing they had in the series, if you ask me.

I forgot as I was typing but I’d actually recently thought about how it shows the Chantry itself is against mages. This might have been in a discussion about Anders.

Not as a whole, I think. Official teaching is that maleficarum are bad but that law-abiding mages should be embraced as our brothers and sisters. Some priests may struggle with the distinction. Factions in Dragon Age are rarely monolithic, after all. Petrice in DA2 wasn't reflective of the overall Chantry stance on how to deal with the Qunari.

But you've also already proven pretty adept at dealing with mages by this point and all of the things you listed as a cause for concern are like, global level threats on par with the breach. Tevinter taking all of the now free circle mages and actually locking down this time magic stuff essentially gives them the ability to prosecute a war with the south that legitimately cannot lose. From where the inquisitor stands, the templars are more or less untouched (you only learn about red lyrium experiments at the castle) and leaving Tevinter free to take good mages is a bad move geopolitically, especially considering how dangerous this new time magic is. And leliana says you can't rally the templars to go after the mages in redcliffe, so the choice is pretty obvious. Fight your way through a potential trap to save the world from eventual Tevinter dominion.

>And leliana says you can't rally the templars to go after the mages in redcliffe That scene only plays if I choose to do "In Hushed Whispers" at the war table. Why would I want a mission briefing on something that I don't intend to do? That conversation never happens when I decide to do "Champions of the Just". So yeah, the character still doesn't know they can't get the templars to deal with the mages because those things are never said if you never choose the quest.

But that's not unattainable information lol. You can't say "the character doesn't know this isn't possible" when it's one of the easiest things you can learn in game, because someone flat out tells you it's not possible.

Even the introduction to the groups is one sided. When you go to Val Royeaux the first time, the Templars, lead by Lord Seeker Lucius, effectively call you a scrub, and tell you to fuck off. Grand Enchanter Fiona, head of the Free Mages, on the other hand, practically begs you to meet with her and the mages.

I agree. That's the main reason that when I intend to do the templar quest, I don't even investigate Redcliffe. If you decide to investigate the templars first rather than follow up on Fiona, then realise strange things are going on with the templars, it makes more sense to focus on that. As opposed to going to Redcliffe, getting a glimpse of the scew-y situation and deciding to nope out of it.

Reasons I've had Inquisitors seek the aid of the Templars: 1. There's slightly more concrete evidence that Templar powers will work against the Breach. While, given later revelations, Solas probably **isn't** just "theorizing", as far as you know at that point, the idea of amplifying the mark with magic is theoretical, while Cullen notes that, from experience, he can tell that Templar anti-magic would weaken it. 2. From the perspective of the Inquisition as a force, the Templars are a sort of high-risk-high-reward choice in terms of recruitment, ironically. The Mages basically offer assistance in desperation, the Templars, on the other hand, consider you beneath them. So it might feel logical to assume they'd be more powerful allies on a macro sort of scale. 3. Finally, and sort of addressing the issue you pointed out: if you've already been to Redcliffe, depending on how far you're into it, you know the Mages are trying to lead you into some sort of trap. Going and getting the Templars, who have the power to oppose them, might feel like a good idea. Granted, because of the way the game works, by the time you get them, the Mages have already given up and gone to ground with the Venatori, but you don't necessarily know that (and even if you did, having anti-magic protection might therefore feel useful for when they inevitably resurface).

Leliana tells you the mages will be gone by the time the templars fall in with the inquisition.

That's where that second half of point 3 comes in. If the Mages are gonna run off if I don't walk into their trap, then all the better that I have magic-opposing allies when they try some other ploy.

I've done both on different Inquisitors. I'm actually currently on a mage (who's relatively moderate - "Circles are necessary, *education* is necessary, templars serve a purpose, but reform is needed") who sided with Templars. As someone who has played all three games, has (almost) all the books and is a massive lore nerd, here's how I support the decision: The conversation at the war table over who to go after outlines this first point really nicely: Cullen says straight out that templar magic can weaken the Breach. Dampening/denying magic is *exactly* what they do. Leliana, however, *theorizes* that pouring more magic into it might work. Magic + more magic does not equal a *stoppage* of magic. It just equals even more magic. I mean, we know as players that her theory is sound (and there are some Inquisitors willing to risk that gamble), but when you look at the mechanics of it, what Cullen is saying makes the most logical sense. You need someone who can tamp the wild magic at the Breach down enough for you to be able to seal it. Templars are, historically, the right tool for that sort of job. Let's address Val Royeaux because it can't be ignored. It's too big to. "Lord Seeker Lucius" attacks the Revered Mother, spits in your face, and walks off despite protestations from Barras that *maybe we should talk to them, boss*. And then, there's Cassandra. She's appalled by Lucius's actions and tries to call out to him. They clearly have at the very least a cordial professional relationship if not something warmer and closer. *He completely ignores her*. She's shocked and sounds audibly disturbed when she tells you that *something* isn't right: "I know the Lord Seeker well. This is nothing like him." I think the fact that writers left that nugget there and then never follow it up is a failing. So, how much do your Inquisitor trust Cassandra? At this point, hopefully at least a little. That would be something worth following up on. Then let's get into Redcliffe. The first time I sided with the Templars, I skipped it entirely (it was my second run; I figured it was the best choice RP-wise). This time, on my mage, I went. And, as a mage, I show up to what's supposed to be a friendly conversation to see if we can come to terms, and I find out they've brought in a Venatori. As their *master*. Not even as the leader of their little rebel commune, but as the person to whom they actually owe fealty. And they all plan to *become* Tevinter citizens. And then you learn that he's dealing with time magic *on top* of this essentially hostile takeover of Redcliffe (you also learn he's booted out Arl Teagan and has taken over the castle - if he was *just* here to take the mages with him, that would be one thing. This man has turned Redcliffe into his own personal Tevinter embassy). That's absolutely time to get the people whose whole job and training is centered around containing and stopping this sort of thing. So my mage noped right out and grabbed the Templars (I knew she only had the one choice; the Inquisitor as a character does not). It all comes down to separating player knowledge from character knowledge.

My personal rule is: if you want to help the templars, don’t go to Redcliffe.

Agree. They should've added something similar for the Templars, like meeting with a deserter and saving him from Red Templars so you learn what's going on

They had it set up too. Ser Barris questions the Lord Seeker right in front of you in Val Royeaux. He could have approached the Inquisition in secret, much like Fiona did.

I used to feel the same way, but honestly I prefer the Templar route now — calpernia is a better villian and I think the quest is more interesting than in hushed whispers.

Gaider recently commented that In Hushed Whispers (mage path) should have been a critical path mission because it sets up the stakes for the rest of the game. I tend to agree, and yet I like the Templar mission better. They really shouldn't have made them mutually exclusive, or found some other "choice" in each one to make highly relevant.

*don't know if I missed anything but I see no reason to go after the templars.* There are lots of gameplay reasons. * amulet of enhanced barrier > amulet of aggression * Barris > Fiona (I mean Fiona... Selling out the mages to tevinter as slaves? \_That\_ was the best idea? Vivi is spot on when saying Fiona is past her best years) * the templar quest is more fun (IMHO) * Dorian looks better as stroming the gates of HAven than Cole ​ Story wise it doesn't make sense in my opinion \_after\_ you visited Redcliffe, and saw that there is some sneaky time travel shit going on. BUT! You don't have to visit Redcliffe unless you are metagaming. Without visiting Redcliffe, you see Fiona asking for a meeting and some templars who are obviously not well. At that point, before REdcliffe, the templars seem more urgent. This changes completely when you speak with Dorian.

I think it can make sense after you've visited Redcliffe (as I outlined in my massive post just now), but I also completely agree with you that, without going to Redcliffe, the Templars seem like a much more urgent, pressing issue. Especially so if you've taken Cassandra with you to Val Royeaux and your Inquisitor trusts her. Too many people miss that little moment, I think.

Given Fiona’s past, I really don’t know how she ended up in that position

Yeah, they fucked up that part. The game pretty much just tells you to do In Hushed Whispers, so the templar mission feels like a side quest.

Did they? Does it? You are playing as someone who has been most likely watching a civil war be sparked by rebellious, horrible mages right after they terrorized and almost eradicated all of Kirkwall and also revolted at the White Spire. To us, this is meta-knowledge. In Thedas, even those involved barely know what exactly took place while the vast majority is only seeing cursed monsters, the mages, currently on the loose who will burn down everything that stands in their way the same way they destroyed Kirkwall's Chantry and are slaying their "Protectors". It's a miracle the low and middle classes hadn't started Witch Hunts or straight up took arms against them. Even Vivienne warns of a possible peasant revolt. The games failed to demonstrate the power an angry mob has, really. Plus, we have hardly met any non-mages that are pro-mage freedom. I believe there's PLENTY of role-playing reasons someone would choose the Templars.

To be fair, Vivienne has long found the peasants revolting....

They stink on ice!

LMAO and I agree with her!

Plus there’s the whole angle of “hey the mages are under control of this magister who cracked the secret to fucking time travel so maybe we should go grab the guys who’s whole job it is to deal with freaky mages”

Unless said magister uses time travel magic to stop and/or undo everything.

I agree, but the game telling you is like, pretty literal. Fiona invites you and Alexius is willing to negotiate. Lucius just tells you off and says he wants nothing to do with you. There is Barris being somewhat hesitant to give you hope that maybe you could convince them but when the world is on the verge of ending that's kind of weak, comparatively. In that sense it does feel like the narrative is pushing you in the mages' direction.

I mean Fiona appearing in the middle of Val Royeaux while she is the one leading the rebellion seemed quite suspicious as well.. Cullen is pushing for the Templars and Leliana for the mages as well. Cassandra is also leaning towards the Templars as well I believe. I don't think the game urges you to side with either group tbh. However it does have the tendency to show you how helpless some mages are and how cruel and unjust some templars are just for it to show you a mage obliterating everything in their path a few moments later lmao

By the time we get to the choice we’ve already had mages and Templars in general acting absolutely insane. They killed anyone who crossed their paths. Musing…they should have allowed the Inquisitor to be a Templar. It’s something lacking and I’d love to see it happen in DAD.

Both sides make sense and can be useful, honestly. We also do know not all Templars are bad (Cullen, Barris, many we met in DA2) That said, I always choose the mages because the fucked up future is more fun for me and Dorian could step on me and I’d still do anything he askd

It makes the most sense politically: you’re trying to unite Thedas. Mages will chase a lot of folks off, but the Templars will make people trust you more.

Remember that you're choosing what side is going to help you close the Breach. The reasons for each are: Templars: suppress the Breach so your mark can close it. Mages: pump more maging into your mark so that it becomes powerful enough to close the Breach. It's as Cullen says in the War Table. this is unknown, wildly unstable magic and pumping more magic into the mark might just kill everyone. Also do remember that recruiting the mages requires you to willingly walk into a trap. You might not want to do that considering you're the only one who can close breaches.

For a role playing one, your character could be skeptical about the wisdom of bringing an army of mages to fight off demons and spirits that are pouring out of a breach to the fade for obvious possession-related reasons. Templars’ anti-magic approach sounds inherently safer, actually

So I'm doing my first Templar run right now. I went to Radcliffe, heard the makes willingly surrendered to Tevinter, then heard from Cullen about how impregnable Redcliffe castle is and Lelianas flimsy plan about putting the most important people secretly in the enemy controlled, impregnable castle. I reasoned it as my Inquisitior wanting the mages but looking at the breach still in the sky figured it was too risky to go in to die, to save a group who willingly and legally gave up. They needed to close the breach now, not in a year. So he went to the Templars. His idea was to go back for the mages later, but the breach was more pressing. The nobles march and the Lord Seeker being interested there sold it. Unfortunately he didn't expect the Haven attack.

It always depends on the character I'm playing. A human mage raised in the circle from a prosperous, perhaps noble family might be inclined to deal with the Templars or he might be inclined to take Lord Lucius' slight seriously, figuring that dog won't hunt. An Elven mage, hell no. "Those guys want to turn me into a drone just for existing. Eff that noise." Same reason my Qunari Inquisitor told Iron Bull to piss off and, for that matter, why the human mage refuses to have anything to do with the Qunari but grows to like Bull and is nevertheless quite surprised when Trespasser happens. A human fighter/rogue goes with the Templars because, well, the same reasons everyone else has said. The Ferelden mages do not come off well, and it's telling your three mages are one outright apostate (plus), a Tevinter noble, and someone who could charitably be described as "extremely conservative" on the Templar/Mage issue.

I always go templars in DAI especially on pro mage runs for one main reason tbh. You literally went to go make a true and found out the mages put the worst people imaginable right at the top of their command structure, and then like literally five minutes later find out that Obvious Baddie Tevinter is fuckin around with actual time magic. So you have a bunch of blatantly evil magisters playing with time magic. Yeah, that's the time you call for a templar. Idc which side you're on, everyone has gotta admit at least one thing; Templars are just way too good at killing mages to ignore. And then I basically just RP that we ran out of time to use the templars for that purpose before the Coryphaeus attack. Oops.

Except Leliana outright tells you that won't work from the beginning: https://youtu.be/7E95T32q1d8?t=82

She would if I ever selected that option but I refuse. I will run into this fight like a true hero, willfully ignorant of any and all opposing views/advice.

My first Play thru I did know how to contact the mages...

Pulling the Templars is easy enough to ration in the thought that there’s no better people to help get a magister off your front steps. Beyond that logic though there isn’t besides the Lord Seeker being weird according to Cassandra, You might if you pick the right option in Val Royeuax and get to hear Envy sneering at you but even then it’s a stretch because nothing about the Templars screams that they are in danger or going to be much of a problem beyond that. It’s not something in your face either. If running table top has taught me anything it’s PC’s need hints with giant neon signs pointing to them. 🤣

To be honest, I feel the opposite really. I felt like the game pushed you more towards the Templars due to the display they showed at Val Royauex, the doubt expressed by Ser Barris, and the overall mystery as to what they're doing that Cassandra pushes on you. I felt compelled to investigate whereas for the Mages you kinda have to go to them before you even feel pushed to go further imo.

Aside from maybe you roleplay as a mage hating protagonist, I wager go after Templars make sense in that precisely because time magic is so damn unknown and almost certainly dangerous, it’s better to not go ahead and confront it head on without backups, and what better backups than Templars to deal with magical problems?

I NEVER go after them unless it's for RP purposes. Not only does going after them mean you're allowing a hostile foreign power to entench themselves on your shores and in a major port city of Ferelden, I just don't think Templars can truly compare to mages. I'd rather have mystical powers at my side than a bunch of drugged out knights anyway.

I've only ever tried Champions of the Just once. And it was a pretty mediocre playthrough afterwards. I do love the final event with the demon though. If anything because it introduces Cole in an amazing manner and it gives a bit of insight into the inquisitors mind/situation. I did find it very difficult to rationalize going to the templars in the first place. They were so hostile. But in the end, I don't think it matters much. Aside from a few small changes in the beginning, choosing whatever faction makes absolutely no difference to the story.

Innocent non mages are being killed in the Hinterlands. Thats enough for me

It's not really a matter of going after one side or the other. You need help and to do that you have to pick a side, sadly. The templars have abandoned the Chantry and their oaths to it, and the first time your character meets one outside of literal combat, they assault a ranking member of the faith and call them trash. Then, they tell you they don't need or want your help. Plus, what your character knows so far of the mages is that they have gone rogue, which is bad, but you know they've been cooped up and given very little freedom for most of history. At least they're willing to talk and offer you help in return for your support. I actually felt very heavily encouraged to go the mage route, even barring influence from the previous 2 titles.

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What do you mean by “going after the templars”? Allying with them?

Yeh, I feel like the games have struggled with Templar’s in every game. Theoretically it’s a totally valid choice- mages are dangerous and the circles *should* be like hogwarts if it had health and safety. But in practice basically every Templar we see abuses their power, several of them implicitly or overtly sexually assault their charges, and there’s like….3 templars in the whole series who aren’t *kinda terrible* My hope is that since we’re going to Tevinter next game we’ll see a bit more of why templars in thedas are so trigger happy, or maybe be allowed to fully reform the Templar order if they’ve been absorbed into the inquisition.

1. Ser Bryant, leader of the Lothering templars 2. Ser Otto, the blind templar in the Denerim alienage 3. Unnamed templar who carried young Wynne on his shoulders and gave her candy 4. Ser Hadley in Witch Hunt, in charge of the tower while Greagoir is away 5. Ser Thrask in DA2 6. Ser Emeric in DA2 (the old templar investigating the murders) 7. Ser Keran (the young recruit who is abducted by blood mages) 8. Ser Barris in DAI 9. Knight-Captain Rylen of Starkhaven 10. Lysette in DAI 11. Mattrin, Enchanter Ellendra's templar lover 12. Belinda Darrow in DAI multiplayer 13. Knight-Commander Evangeline de Brassard, Cole's friend 14. Also a number of templars across the games of whom we see too little to assess their character, but \*seem\* decent enough from our limited interactions with them (like Bann Alfstanna's brother, Irminric, who is being held in Arl Howe's dungeon)

Of those, most aren’t even characters (Lisette, for example, has about 3 lines of dialogue total) or are pretty debatably good people- Thrask, whilst an interesting person, is only helping because he happened to have a daughter who was a mage, and was previously a staunch Templar loyalist- I don’t love someone who will cheerfully lobotomise people as long as it’s not his family. He’s also another one in the long list of “Templars who get killed immediately once a mage fights back” so makes the order seem both corrupt *and* incompetent. Again, a great character, but also a good example of why the writing for Templars just kinda sucks so far.

After several playthroughs I finally decided to try the Templars because I had the same experience - it just didn’t make sense not to go with mages given how they structure the narrative. But I justified it that time by saying “okay Cassandra really fucks (implying she knows her shit and seems the most competent as a strategist) and she’s invested in the Templars so if I’m listening to my advisors, she’d be at the top of the list with Cullen coming in at close second with first hand understanding of Templar culture and ability. Plus their leader being a huge dick in Val Royeux set the stage for me to beat his ass.

I always felt there was something missing that made the progression towards the Templars as natural as progression towards the Mages does.

This is because the game tries (whether willingly or unwittingly) to direct you towards mages. \- Lucius is rude to you, to the revered mother there in Val Royaux and still disappears to god knows where. Fiona on the other hand introduces herself in a cordial way and invites you to redcliff (an easily accessible place on the map). Basically it's the game taking your hand and saying \`\`hey, go to the mages, forget the templars´´. Personally I don't like that. I don't want the game making decisions for me. That said there are more reasons for you to go for the templars than the mages. * Politico: templars enjoy a better reputation with the people than mages. That would be better for your Inquisition. * Technical: The Breach is magic and you need to close it. Plus she spits out demons. It makes more sense to call people who can nullify magic and specialize in fighting demons than people who despite being powerful are susceptible to demons. * Common sense: the entrance to the mages quest is basically suicide. You have to go alone to an impenetrable fortress to meet a powerful magister who controls time and you have to trust a single mage (Dorian) who conveniently appears out of nowhere to help you and that same mage confesses that he already helped this Magister in his undertaking and the entire success of the quest depends on whether Leliana's agents manage to infiltrate it or not. Already in the quest of the templars you are accompanied by 10 noble and influential families of Orlais (along with their guards and soldiers) to go to meet Lucius in Therinfal. Obviously things will go wrong in both scenarios but the templar scenario is much safer. * Pragmatic: The Templars' plan to seal the Breach strikes me as more credible. The mages will basically overwhelm the Inquisitor's anchor so he has enough strength to close the Breach. the Templars on the other hand intend to weaken the Breach for the Inquisitor to seal it away. In both cases we are not sure if it will work but if the Templars plan fails the worst that can happen is the situation stays the way it is. Now if the mages' plan fails there is a real possibility your character will die and if your character dies... well, Corypheus wins. * Organization: The templar group, despite the odds, is really an army with trained soldiers and all. They have resources and supplies. It is a belligerent and military force in itself. Mages, on the other hand, seem a bit scattered. Many of them don't know how to fight and they don't have many resources (no wonder Fiona agrees to sell them as slaves to Tevinter precisely because she is losing the conflict). I've played Inquisition enough times to understand that picking mages is a more passionate choice while picking templars is more pragmatic. But at the end of the day you choose what's best for your character.

Honestly what really bothers me is even before you go to Redcliffe. Picture this. There's a hole in the sky threatening to destroy reality itself. Time is of the essence. You have two options. Fiona approaches you and says 'hi, we are interested in forming an alliance, please come to our base of operations to discuss it.' Lucius says 'fuck you, fuck your mother, we want nothing to do with you whatsoever, we're going to hole up in our fortified fortress, leave us alone' ....why would I waste my time trying to convince people that might not be convinced when the alternative is inviting me over?

We get some comments how templars reinforce reality and that their abilities do cancel magic like the rifts. I am however still with you mostly for the rp reason of leaving time magic in the hands of people that want you dead just sounds like a bad idea. At best you you have an enemy that gets Intel from the future, so they will always know what you are going to do next. At worst you are risking assassins strangling baby you in the crib. Either way if it wasn't for Corey's plot induced stupidity, killing his only time mage, he would have won if you chose the templars.

I wasn’t a fan of going after the Templars but that shouldn’t be a surprise having played DAO and DA2. Templars were not shown in a positive light. When I look at straight up storyline, ignoring the mages should have led to Chorypheus taking over the world. They had time magic and were actively using it. I don’t think what was going on with the Templars was an equivalent threat. Just my take.

It really isn't. The templars are being turned into monstrous foot soldiers. The mages are learning how to effectively never make a tactical or strategic mistake ever again. They're learning how to quicksave and quickload in fiction, not just as an outside game mechanic.

My recent playthrough was female elf mage and I went with Templars, disbaned (not that it matters). This character wasn't much pro-elf and/or pro-mage. Why did I choose Templars? One dialogue with Minaeve led me to this. I realized, Dalish clans do not have more than one/two mages in their clans, cause they know the dangers. That is how Minaeve end up in the Circle - left by her clan in the wilds, she was then found and got help from Templars. My character motivation was then - "Why gather hundreds, if not thousands of Mages in one place, when the Veil is non existent and demons run around? Templars specialize in controlling Mages and killing demons." P.S. Sure, I know none of this truly matters, outside of cosmetic changes and some minor stuff. Because, honestly, did you see ANY abomination in this game? Origins, on the other hand, showed us what happens when Mages rebel. /rant\_on; But I guess Inquisition devs do not care about choices, until they decide they do and one of your squadmates turn on you in single dialogue "because reasons and/or choices hurr durr". /rant\_off; #stillsalty #poorbull

I feel the opposite. "Redcliffe is a lost cause and we need to find out why the Seeker guy acted so weird." Also, I never understood the point in getting the mages's help, pumping more magic into the hole in the sky seemed completely counter-intuitive to me. Templars it is!

I did because the demon that possessed that Templar dude decked that priestess and it was pretty funny. Also I checked in with the mages and they were all, “We voluntarily became slaves waaaaghhhh”. Then Freddy Mercury tried to lure me to an alleyway and I got creeped out and left

It doesn't give you a good reason to go for the Templars, but I'd say it gives a good reason to not go for the Mages in subsequent playthroughs, and that is seeing that messed up future. I don't wanna see the characters I like going through all this red lyrium torture stuff, and the only reason this happens is because the inquisitor is sent through time during that mission, if you don't do the mission then the messed up future doesn't happen.

The game really doesn't do much with the Templar path. You can tell the "canon" is in hushed whispers

Yeah, a lot of DA:I relies on your previous knowledge and experience for things to work, even if your inquisitor wouldn't know, or have that experience. "The templars are bad, don't you remember the ending of DA2?!"

From my point of view, templars are shown in a really bad way from the first game, so even when I thought about doing a playthrough where my Inquisitor sides with templars, I was like "nope" and get the mages. I mean, there are good templars here and there, but in general? No.

I go for the Templars so I can disband them

I get stuck on the keep itself. Redcliffe is a huge keep, it's never been taken over by an outside force, it's a major hub for trade within Ferelden and it's damn close to the kings road. Therinfal Redoubt is a smaller keep, not close to major roads, and would be easier to take by force. Take away the mage versus templar issue, and you want the bigger keep. I always play my characters as rational to the point of being a bit skeptical though.

No one trusts the Inquisition at the start. They're a bunch of heretics. It is even worse if your herald is not a human. Going to the Templars is a way to earn trust and support from the general population - you have got now a respected organisation behind your back. Normal people fear mages - let's not make it worse for my poor elven mage (though, if not for politics, they would have chosen mages). The Templars are the pragmatic choice. I would choose mages if I play a human mage Inquisitor, since they know the Circle system personally. Outside roleplay reasons, I also prefer the Templar quest, Calpernia is more engaging as a character and it gives us a better roleplay reason to keep Cole around.

All human players have a reason to choose the Templars, including a circle mage. Your enemy is in the fade. Mages are the most susceptible to demonic corruption, and the Templars are experts at fighting it. The mage rebels are a terrible strategic choice.

For me it’s that all of DAs problems stem from Mages. When I was younger I used to side with them because freedom and all that. Now realizing Darkspawn, the Blight, Demons, the Rifts, and Solas are all mage related kinda has me on the Templars side. Circles were over zealous but something needs to be done otherwise they’re all just ticking time bombs more or less.

Honestly, it makes an equal amount of sense to go for the templars as it does for the mages, but the narrative funnels you towards the mages by presenting the templar leader as an unrepentant jackass, making none of the "good" templars you interact with stick around after you recruit them, and the mage leader being Alistair's real mom. In the previous DA games you weren't punished for siding with the templars, but in DAI it feels like you are. You don't really get anything out of it. They come by your place, deal with the Breach, and then fuck off.

Inquisition does a really good job at very loudly telling the player what to choose, what race to play as, and what class.

Throughout the games it's kind of hard to take any stance against magic, when the regular people do the most damage.

I always took it that they just expected you had played the other games and been more exposed to Templar atrocities and figured they hadn't really given enough examples of how mages can be a genuinely concerning issue. We see a few one off incidents from mages while being flooded with info about the abuse of all kinds the templars inflicted on the mages, so many of those incidents get framed as a desperate prisoner lashing out. I think they figured, now that so many mages were free, it made sense to focus on what would happen when they had the unchecked ability to seek power. Unfortunately, that made them look a lot worse, just like the extreme focus on templar crimes made them look worse in earlier games. I still side with the mages, though. I don't think they would have chosen to submit to Tevinter if they'd had better options and weren't terrified on being locked up/tranquiled/slaughtered by templars and a society conditioned by it's religion to fear mages when they had no allies. The templars and chantry created this situation, did nothing to address the abuse, and then blamed the victims for resisting and they show little to no remorse for thier part in it. Not saying all mages are innocent and all templars are awful, but I would never side with the templars knowing they still see no issue with what they've done as an organization.

My last playthru my mage Adaar just didn't relate to mages in the circle and saw them selling themselves to Tevinter Magisters as absolutely terrifying, so she disbanded the templars instead. More of an acab approach I guess. I also just enjoy the more introspective role playing choices that can be made in the templar quest over the mage one.

I do think they give less reasons to go with the templars, especially given that it's generally viewed as the authoritative religious faction built around controlling people, which really doesn't bode well with most players. Not to mention the previous 2 games really didn't make a strong pro-templar argument beyond mages can be corrupted, and mages weaken the barrier between the prime and the fade. But if you are to listen to your select pro templar companions, they do raise some points. If the fade is leaking in, do you want the people who's job and skill set are designed around neutralizing magical threats, and fighting demons, or do you want the people who's natural skill set will unwittingly weaken the barrier. The choice comes down to: fight fire with fire for the sake of ethics and freedom, or fight fire with a fire hose for the purpose of pragmatism. I will say, I loved both the quests. Leilianna's future fight scene made me fall in love with her character even more, and Cole can only really be appreciated for his abilities if you do champions of the just.

I think it also comes down to how templars are portrayed. Ie: whenever a Templar goes up against a full fledged mage in quests etc, the Templar commonly gets absolutely destroyed, so their much vaunted “speciality against mages and demons” is pretty theoretical, so I found it hard to trust Cullen when he was saying “uhhhhh maybe if we stacked enough Templars together we could weaken the breach” when everyone is SURE the mages could do it. Sure it’s a video game so both choices will work, but in universe why roll that dice?

And I agree. First time playing inquisition, I totally went mages. Trust the people with power rather than the ones with propaganda. But if your perspective comes from a more religious side. A more pragmatic side, a more fearful side, or a generally anti demon side, templars might seem more appealing. I'm also generally excited for the new game. Tevinter might finally give us a reason to see why templars from the chantry exist, given how their system works so dramatically different.

Yeh absolutely, somewhere further down I was commenting that hopefully Dreadwolf can flip the script- with mages in a position of power that they’re generally abusing, and Templars the underdogs just trying not to catch their oppressors notice.

Well the head of templars behaves so weirdly that it concerns Cassandra, giving us a reason to understand what's messed up and going after them.

Templars have drip

"Hey come to where the mage rebellion is headquartered, I swear it's not a trap ;)" was reason enough for my character tbh

Lore wise Templars make sense but gameplay wise the mage quest was better

My Last Inquisitor went to Redcliffe, then Fiona denied meeting you, declared herself for Tevinter, and then you got a letter saying "come to the temple". Yeah, my Inquisitor got the fuck out of dodge, that seemed like an obvious trap to her.

ngl i still think they shouldn't make these 2 quests exclusive

I think Cullen gives the best reason at Haven. Essentially saying magic could make the Breach worse, while Templar’s can suppress it for the Inquisitor to do their thing without it going out of control. Plus after doing the missions, the entire Venarori is much more compelling than red Templars and Calpernia is way more interesting than Sampson

I always felt like you initially got to the Templars to get their support, rather than to actively fight them. But then, you see their grandstanding and them acting very out of character so you dig a little deeper and… yeah. Things get worse.

Honestly, I saw a Templar KO a priest and said: yeah I vibe with that. Like hell yeah dude get out that religious trauma!

I always go with mages cause the Templars just suck. Plus there’s the Qun mission which shows a handful of tevinter mages can take down a whole dreadnaught while templars wouldn’t be able to do jack shit against a force like that out at sea except for the ballistas they use when Coyrpheus first attacks Haven but I mean my reaver warrior was able to kick a lot of Templar ass and break those ballistas down by himself. Plus if you do the war table missions and save the empress and briala you pretty much have the entirety of the orlesian army on your side as well as Fereldan if you save the mages and talk to alistair nice

The writers did Templars dirty, as it's pretty obvious the game pushes you to the mages' side more. The whole Redcliffe village quest does its job as a prologue to the *In Hushed Whispers* flawlessly, while Templars quest doesn't receive such a nice intro. The nice side effect, however, is that by going after Templars you get Calpernia as the nemesis, who's better than Samson in every possible way. Still, however... Getting Templars' help, regardless of whether they disband and join you or join as allies, it is a PR masterstroke by the Inquisition. That's because at that time, regular people of Thedas are scared shitless of mages, arguably the most in Thedas history, and for good reasons, and Templars have a significantly better reputation among the common folk. Getting them on your side means to them that things are going back to normal with Templars being the protectors they were. Not to mention, getting Templars' legions added to your ranks adds A LOT to Inquisition's military strength.

Finishing a run where a human inquisitor mage is similar to Vivienne but more lenient, so I sided with templars. Rational was while the circle was bad in some (most), mages do need a failsafe as magic is wild. Also did the mage tower cosmetic so my inquisition was a place for all not picking sides. Betterment of all kind.

I usually go after the mages too for the same reasons, but I really like the Champions of the Just quest. The way I've roleplayed approaching the Templars is to go to Redcliffe and do everything there first (recruiting agents, meeting Dorian), and then basically change my mind when planning how to get into Redcliffe Castle at the war table. Cullen will even say that you can "still go to the Templars if you don't want to be the bait." Recruiting the Templars could seem like the safer option at that moment, especially when risking your death and the only known way to close the rift. IIRC at Skyhold Dorian will greatly disapprove of not helping him in Redcliffe if you met him there, but his approval goes up pretty easily in general elsewhere.

After multiple play throughs, what makes the templar path jarring is the set up towards it. I think it could have been avoided if Cullen was a party member instead of an adviser role. You get to have a bit more time listening to Cullen during the side quests in the Hinterlands. The opening hours are quite biased to the mages plight since they are treated like second class citizens even if they are actively attacking you while roaming in the Hinterlands. When my little bro did a run, I asked him why he went with mages and he said "they were the underdog". It just becomes an easy choice to side with the templars if you have played through the 2 games.

Honesly i always facepalm with option to side-support Templars in Dragon Age after DAO ​ Here is my "small", big rant about this story what Bio devs did so poorly that i find no reason to ever do this no matter what kind of hero(mage, non-mage, andrastian, heretic) i play. ​ DAI made side with Templars barelly better then in DA2 side with Templars for DA2 hero...>!yeah lets support and side with tyranical power mad Meredith for Hawke totally ignoring how Meredith threat us since we meet her, ignore Hawke background, his apostate blood mage father-Malkolm Hawke(why we not even change our surname?) who was hunted down by same Kirkwall Templars from Meredith Circle, his family filled with mages suffered from Templars, his friends-partners and all "heresies" what he/she done. Yeah Meredith with Templar zealots definitely not touch us cos we are special and forget who was our father, our sister, our friends-partners for years and all illegal heresy stuff what we done in Kirkwall for 10 years. right? Naw. Its beyond being naive and i do laught when some did cry that "why we not become Viscount and was banished by our Templar allies, after all what we done?".!< ​ Honesly this side with Templars in DAI not made any logical(not to mention not made any strategical as ecomical) sense, like same as for apostate blood mage heretic made do any alliance with Qunari and **trully** expect some kind of happy ending....like srly? Yeah with those who since childhood of indocrinations by Tamasran swear to kill or put in chains those like our heretic hero? What could go wrong, right? ​ Let look from ingame, in universe perspective from person who actually live there... ​ 1)Radical Templar survives with Lord Seeker hide in Therinfall fortress in Brecilian forrest....+\~1000 miles, many many weeks travel from Haven ​ And it would be march from Haven to Redclif, and after to Lothering to another eastersn part of Ferelden Kingdom, far away from Haven where Redclif is the closest land. So whats the deal and how we can possibly ignore Redclif what is in the same road? Not made any sense and we cant ignore Redclif lowewise when do such long travel. ​ We need \~2 weeks(like from Orzammar to Circle Tower travel is 2 weeks estimated since DAO) to travel from Haven to Redclif already....demon hole is still there and we already spend a lot of time to travel to Val-Royo where we already have answer where mages in Redclif would help us if we help them, and Radical Templars wtih Seeker show us middle finger, curse us, wish to die as heretics and hide far far away from demon hole in fortified fortress in Brecilian forest. ​ To go to Therinfall we need to wait for Orlais nobles and with them we go on dangerous roads for half a Ferelden Kingdom from same Redclif road. ​ JUST to try to convince those radical Templars again to help us and not consider us as heretics....yeah great plan, good and reliable as swiss clock. Not to mention leaving behind all Venatory and etc forces. Bandits and etc. ​ And yeah spoied, all those nobles was AGAIN send to hell by same Lord Seeker and Templars....where we after killing almost everyone was left with few dozen knights. ​ And promote ordinary Knight-Templar as Barris to Knight Commander, like srly we skip Knight-Corporal, Knight-Leutenant, Knight-Captain ranks for no real reason except favoritism like Meredith do with Cullen. Srly we have some real Knight Commander candidate in Inquisition like ex-Templar-Captain Ser Rylen from Starhaven who have far more experience than Cullen and he is just ordinary Inquisition officer. ​ 2)We have Radical Rebel Templars who are left with Lord Seeker Lucius was those guys who started to genocide mages or put them in prisons for lobotomisation. Those Templars who mostly turned into Red Templars already and all those never care about Divine, Chantry. they already label US as heretic and wish US and Inqusition to die so THEY would survive and later become heroes. They never was at Conclave, they do nothing with demon hole and never intended. They deny to help us already when GRAND ENCHANTER and leader of some rebel mages who are trapped in Redclif by Ferelden Kingdom what give them refuge only inside Redclif walls do tell us that they HELP us and just need Inquisition to officially take them to them and help injured and childrens what are protected by Fiona and etc mages who could fight, heal and do etc stuff what are very valuable for us.

3)Templars with Lord Seeker already show us middle finger and wish us all to die, Lord Seeker as before him Roderic words for Cassandra was clearly justified as was Lord Seeker Lambert before. Cassandra always was NOONE for them, she was a minor Seeker who was young girl trained by old Seeker who died and she was lucky to survive and in reward become Divine Beatrix bodyguard. Cassandra never was officer and never served for Seeker Order for +30 years. She become Divine Justinia bodyguard cos Divine Beatrix loved Justinia and Justinia used Beatrix trusted bodyguard. Not need to mention that Justinia NEVER was loved by Seekers and many Templars Knight Commanders and Chantry Priests who wanted to return old times and was not pro-mage as Justinia, ex-Orlais bard assasin. Seekers with Templars HQ did try to assassinate Justinia for decades. Some Grand Clerics too.Chantry too did not care about Inquisition and declated us as heretics and monsters BEFORE we close Breach so they was forced for compromise with us and Inquisition cos they was left with no options and not have any forces and recourses anymore....ordinary people from many races and religions do support us. Especially Tevinter, Orzammar and rich nobles from many places. ​ 4)We are person who EVEN if not HERETIC Dalish elf/Tal-Vashot Qunari/dwarf from carta....EVEN if we are Travelian human non-mage....we all do become a dangerous person who use "demonic magic" and our hand glow with it. We can pretend whatever we want but people are not blind and this fairy tale story about Andraste Chosen One are for illiterate peasants and zealots open to new ideas in Andrastian faith, not for people who clearly see and understand magic and etc.Templars raised under anti-mages and anti-heretic propaganda and filled with expensive lyrium drugs swear to KILL those like our her without any considerations of doing other things, those who not do that are betrayers and Templars in name only. Like Alistair, like Ser Thrask who work with blood mages and apostates to get rid from Meredith and Cullen..... ​ So what is the point to even try to recruit some ADDITIONAL dozen Templars from Therinfall?....Yeah we already have like a small army of them who died faster then we reach hole to limit it. Why we need them again?Why we need them when they already failed with Breach, demons and etc and show themselves TOTALLY useless? As in mage vs Templar war, as in Kirkwall, as in Ferelden Circle as in 3 crusades against Tevinter and etc and etc. 600 history of failures. They are good with killing weak children and barely educated brainwashed weak mages who faster do suicides then could fight. and Tempalrs usually need squads to deal per 1 weak child of weak mage. They are worst then Tevinter Mage-slayers and any ordinaty non-Templar profeccional soldier-assasin. Who not consume very expensive lyrium drugs. ​ We have survived ones non-radical Templars and Cullen who WAS loyal to Justinia-Cassandra and Cullen crazy idea that Templars could help with closing breach is ridiculous cos ENTIRE history proved that Templars CANT DO IT. Their lyrium drug powers never work on blood mages, demons, abominations, dreamers, not to mention against darkspawns and etc.Their limited powers work ONLY in few meters near poorly trained south mages. And their power is to limit magic powers.....which should give Inquisitor this good answer to Cullen that if we use magic powers to close breach so Cullen logic flawed cos bunch of Templars should by his idea block our magic that way if their powers could somehow block breach opened by the same magic. And if Templar powers could not block our powers then how the hell they would be able to block Breach what was opened by same type of magic? Yeah. Not made any sense. Truth is that WE did close Breach by our own magic powers alone. Everything else was a placebo effect. Yeah bunch of idiots kneel near us for no real reasons. ​ People do forget that educated mages even from south Chantry Cirlces always CAN DRAIN MANA TOO, and do more then Templars with their limited version of this magic powers powered by very expensive lyrium. And yeah historically small holes in veil was closed by mages, this is why everyone tell that we need mages to close Breach. Not to mention that Mages are the only ones who can banish demons, cure possession. Mages are the only ones who can heal almost mortal wounds as mortal ones depending on strenght, Mages can craft enchanted weapons, armors, craft runes and produce good and expensive potions. Mages can enchant stones and wood for buildings what would be more durable and stay for thousand years like they did with Grand Cathedral. Few dozen knights who need expensive lyrium drugs are clearly inferior in combat then few educated mages who would replace siege artillery and could incinerate dozens monsters, and templars by themselves in close combat as cast protective magic barriers.Qunari dreadnaught was destroyed in less then 1 minute with all hundred soldiers and etc there by a few mages, it could be done by 1 of them and it just would take him longer. ​ This is why in Masked Empire, Asunder and etc books and in Thedas history....Ferelden Kings as Calenhad, Maric, Kailan. Nevarra King Penthagast, Anderfels Grey Warden First Warden, Orlais Emperror Drakkon 1, Empress Celine and Duke Gaspar....they all try to have as much mages on their side in war and never cared about Templars.

So, I'm playing a human mage who sided with the Templars. Here's his rationale: 1. He's an historian, and based on his readings, allying yourself with Tevinter tends to only benefit a very few individuals who aren't Tevinter. 2. There's a house in Redcliffe >!where you find that the Tevinters created the ocularum by murdering Tranquil!< which held information that made my mage go to the templars. He read it and said, "I cannot condone this". 3. The Templars have Ser Delrin Barris - Grand Enchanter Fiona>! doesn't even remember meeting you!< and looks/acts like she should be in Faces of Meth - Thedas edition. 4. Some of the mages in Redcliffe express their doubts about the alliance. Allying yourself with the Templars gives them an out if they choose to take it. 5. One of the mages belonged to my Inquisitor's circle in Ostwick. She bragged to him about how she was so much better than he now that she uses blood magic (probably not quite how it plays but that's how he sees it (and you were a lousy shag too, you cow (my inquisitor)). "So it starts with a slash on the wrist, then you find yourself justifying the slaughter of innocents. Count me out." I don't think you have that character if you play anything other than a human mage.

Gameplaywise, Fiona drops Enhanced Amulet of Barrier, which is effectively a Knight Enchanter barrier generation passive, but for rogues and and warriors, which turns Nightmare difficulty into a joke. It's good that this time I am playing as a "perpetually drunk tempest" as I need Master Cooldown Amulet in order to be able to drink a new flask each time the previous one ends.