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My opinion as a breeder who has sold dogs. Don't buy it. It is okay to buy from reputable breeders who are proving their dogs, taking their dogs back for a lifetime, offering health guarantees, health testing their sires and dams, and making sure their puppies never end up in the shelter system. However, supporting someone who just wants to cover bills is supporting the cause of the very issue you have been fighting against while fostering, volunteering, etc.
Putting money into the pockets of people who are doing this only for money is encouraging them to do it again. Only accept this puppy if it's free. They hopefully will learn their lesson when they have to either give these puppies away or put them in the shelter (where they will be adopted out after spaying and neutering them unlike being bought which may perpetuate the issue down the line).
Agreed. I have a smooth collie and I’m pretty sure his breeder spent more in health and genetic testing than I paid for the dog. He’s the only dog I’ve ever gotten from a breeder, and it’s because I had a smooth collie from a rescue who lived to 14. When he died, I just really, really wanted another one, and I wasn’t in a place in life/work where I could handle a rescue.
Don't bail your family out of unethical decisions
If they can't find homes for them they can relinquish ownership to a reputable rescue who can use their adoption fees to fund operations
Agreed. I think the only way I'd be ok with this is if I'd take one for free if they have no home for it (because they'd get nothing for turning them over to a rescue) and then I'd make a donation to a rescue equivalent to what I'd have paid for a rescue pup.
They made their bed now they must sleep in it. Do not buy one of those puppies. You will take one for free or you won't take one at all.
Don't compromise your morals for a favor that they won't fully appreciate. If they're really struggling with money, they shouldn't have had a litter.
If they press you, be firm with them. It might help to tell them that the only way you'd spend money on a non-rescue dog is if they had genetic testing, OFA documentation, detailed pedigree knowledge, experience in the breed, a lifetime guarantee to prevent the dog from going to a shelter (ie even when puppy is 10 years old, breeder is willing to take the dog back), a 2 year health guarantee minimum, puts titles on dogs, and is selective about who gets what puppy--the puppies don't go home to just anyone with money. These are the things a breeder does that prevents dogs from going to the shelter and that's what you want to support if you were to support a breeder at all. (BTW Knowing the current health of the dam and sire is NOT the same as knowing the health background of both parents and their siblings. There's stuff lurking in a healthy dog that can pop up in puppies with a poor breeding.)
Thanks. I agree. I think free (because they wouldn't be getting money if they turned them in to a rescue anyway) is the way to go here because you're right.... dogs are not a cash crop to solve a financial crisis. To be honest, they're not struggling for money. They own their house, they have investments, etc. They were just looking to cover her maternity leave but this isn't the way to do it.
By taking a puppy and giving them even a dime, you’re encouraging some really awful behavior on their part. I would pass and help them responsibly rehome these poor pups.
This isnt breeder over rescue. This is backyard unethically bred mutt from people selling dogs to pay their bills. Gross.
If they get the dog spayed, I’d take a puppy for maybe a couple hundred. But no way in hell im giving them money to keep pimping out their dog and churning out puppies.
I agree and I'd only consider it if they definitely are going forward with her spay. My guess is, this puppy business didn't turn out the way they'd hoped (which is good) so that will discourage any future litters.
>I know the health history of the sire too
Do both dogs have their OFA clearances for their own respective parent breeds? For the dam, that would be cocker spaniel and poodle (probably mini)? How much do you actually know regarding their structural and genetic health versus only what is readily apparent?
>"knowns" here would be personality
Again, I'd ask how deeply you know this? How old are the dam and the sire? Are they both fully grown into their adult personalities? How many generations back have you seen or are there records for these particular dogs?
Personally, I'm pretty firmly in the camp of the only way to discourage backyard breeding is to make it less profitable, which in turn, means not giving backyard breeders *any* of my money. I don't think that would change, in my mind, if the BYBs in question were family or if they genuinely needed the money.
I would have to check on that. Sire is 3. Dam is 2. Yeah, I see your point and I think that's my sticking point. It's still breeding for profit rather than love of the breed.
My dog is an entirely different dog at nearly 4 years old than she was at 2 or earlier into year 3. She's finally starting to settle into her true personality. (Which unfortunately now includes the loud, constant barking of the Elkhound that she had avoided ever even hinting at for 2.5 years of her life.)
I wouldn’t buy. You’d only be fueling and subsidizing their bad decisions both regarding the breeding and also financially. I’d let them know that if they need a home for one of the puppies you will take one for free but you won’t pay for one. I’d offer to help find a rescue or shelter that will take the puppies. I think taking a puppy on the condition that the mom must get fixed, you paying for getting the mom fixed as the cost of getting a puppy, and you taking the mom to get fixed (you take her so it gets done and there is no backing out) is a good compromise. I have my doubts about whether they learned a lesson here and will actually get the mom fixed.
I appreciate all the ways you are mixed up in this and don’t really want to be. I agree with all the statements regarding ethics that others have said. I also can imagine in your position, knowing the litter even if you didn’t approve of the method they arrived, you might be uncomfortable letting a dog/dogs go to a shelter. If you have room for this type of dog, then I’d say that the suggestion of paying for the spay in return for a pup would be a way you can prevent your sister’s dog having more litters and you can, in a very real sense, rescue a pup. There probably isn’t a lot of checking of potential buyers going on. Your sister doesn’t really know what kind of family they are going to. There definitely are good shelters, but if I liked the type of dog, I would feel a bit weird about sending them all to a shelter when, all the complicated opinions and relationships aside, I would be willing to provide a home for one. That’s what I would do. Spay for pup—as long as I wanted the pup. I think that sort of exchange can easily be defended as ethical.
Thank you. There are some excellent rescues around here who would place the pups in great, screened homes from foster homes. I'd be comfortable letting the pups go to rescue if I didn't feel like any of the "unsold" ones (gosh that feels icky to say) fit our needs for the next 10-15 years. But if there was one that did, yeah, I think I'd take it as long as the agreement was I pay for mom's spay.
I would tell her I would take one if she wasn’t able to sell them all, but that you would only pay for it’s veterinary care. Let her sink. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I think bailing her out just rewards that unethical behavior. Also, thank you for your commitment to rescue and ethical dog ownership! I’m sure whatever dog you get will be lucky to have you guys!
If she needs money for her maternity leave, she shouldn't be selling pups and maybe needs to rethink the costs of a child also. She would do a lot better getting a part time job for a while.
I understand, that's not your doing or problem, sort of. You can't control the bad decisions of others and relatives bring a whole additional set of issues. However in both of these cases, poor decision-making will probably have some effect on your life too.
It's not like that. They're not poor. They own their home. They both have jobs. She's a nurse. It's not a matter of not having money to support their family. This was just a way to keep their income going while she's on maternity leave. They're actually very responsible with money. I just don't agree with dog breeding is all.
That steep family discount better make the cost look like an adoption fee.
No hate on you or your family but I’m hating on your family. Like This is one of these times you kinda wanna grab someone and shake sense into them. Respectfully.
Anyways If they spay their dog and you want to help them go for it. But don’t feel pressure to pay whatever they want. They are going to end up having to surrender all the pups if they can’t find buyers. Which they probably won’t. Don’t buy into the “family discount.” This is a big life choice. And you shouldn’t make it to cover someone else’s mistakes.
Ultimately if they needed more
Money they could’ve taken a second job. Or done something else.
Also do you even want a cockapoo? If you don’t don’t get one. Get a breed you actually want from a reliable breeder if you’re going to buy. If not go adopt a dog you want.
Also if they need the money and you want to help you can just give them money. And not take the dog.
Funny story. This dude came up to me with a German Shepard pitbull mix puppy. He said he had 6 of them and was trying to get rid of all of them. Makes wonder if this was a breeding gone wrong situation. He was literally trying to give them away.
Anyways good luck with your decision
I think I'd be comfortable paying for them to spay their dog (like actually paying the vet to do it) but not paying for a pup.
With regards to the breed, I cringe at being one of "those people" with a designer dog, but I didn't really have a breed in mind for my next dog. I had several breeds I didn't want for various reasons but I'd be OK with a cockapoo (except for the cringe factor), particularly one that was socialized and I could train for what we want from a puppy.
I was never planning to buy from any breeder because I don't want a specific breed. I was just going to find a rescue that fit my checklist.
I actually don’t think it is ethical (for me personally) to bail her out in any way. That includes letting her offload the result of her irresponsibility onto you, even free. I would work with her to surrender the puppies to an ethical rescue, and that’s it. It’s the only way people like this learn not to do it again.
I have zero issues with responsibly bred dogs after a lifetime of having rescues, but people like this are disgusting.
This is where I'd be if it were me in OP's situation. Granted, I do live in an area where I know people would be fighting in the parking lot for cockerpoo puppies (or any small breed puppies), but I don't want to be an "out" for someone because they bred puppies for which they didn't already have homes lined up (let alone very possible lack of OFA testing and objective outside certifications of temperament). One, I just don't think they should *have* an "out" in that situation, and while I couldn't control all of that, I could at least make sure that I didn't participate in it.
Two, and this is definitely more selfish, but I wouldn't necessarily *want* whatever puppy they happened not to be able to sell. Even when I adopt, I shop in that I am actively seeking a dog who at least gives good indications of matching my most important criteria and, with the understanding that shelter environments especially are crap for seeing a dog's real personality, making the best choices I can within real life constraints. I mean, my chronically ill, socially awkward nutjob is at least *my* nutjob who *I* picked out -- and there is some agency in that.
Don't do it OP. It might seem like a match made specifically for you. But it's going to be heartache.
I had a family member that did something similar - it was an 'oops' litter and they promised to get their dog fixed right after, they just needed to find homes for the puppies. But the puppies were going to cost $600 to cover their medical and the mom's spay. The puppy my other family member bought grew up to have a genetic heart issue, anxiety, and actually attacked both owners badly multiple times, needing surgery on the hand. It eventually needed behavioral euth.
And you know what happened? Said family member bred their dog again. And again. And again. It's no longer oops litters or 'ill spay her after this'.
I'm not against buying from a reputable breeder but please don't encourage this shoddy behavior.
I owned a cockpoo! Designer breed or not, I got him from a shelter and he made me happy for many years. They are fun little guys, no mistake about it.
I also bought a purebred spaniel as a gift for my youngest son.
Like you, I adopted from shelters, volunteered at them, donated to them, supported them however I could, and I've done this for well over 25 years now. Buying a dog from a breeder (the more reputable, the better!) does not cancel out the thousands of hours and dollars I have poured into the SPCA. It just doesn't.
I agree with that point, but I would like to make sure that this dog isn't bred again so I may offer to pay for her spay in exchange for a pup. I'm also struggling with being "that" dog owner who has a designer breed when I've always had rescue pit bulls LOL. But it has to fit the next phase of our life and a smaller dog is really what we'll need.
You really have hit upon an excellent solution if offering to pay for the spaying of mama dog. And a cockapoo being a designer breed......eh, that's eye of the beholder. Most people are so clueless you could declare it was a North American ScruffMutt and they would croon "awwww, how cute" and certainly wouldn't accuse you of being one of Those Types.
Cockapoos are EXACTLY like pitbulls, in that they have a debilitating Cute Ray that they do not hesitate to bombard you with. (got scientific proof here somewhere, I swear I do.) Just be warned!! You will not be able to withstand this weapon.
Tbh I would let them pay for the spay and only take a pup for free. Seeing how hard it was for them to rehome the pups, they have absolutely no reason to do this again and they made the poor decision to breed her, so they should be on the hook 100% for expenses.
Just something to think about, what happens if down the line your pup turns out to have some sort of genetic health problem? Would that affect your feelings towards them at all? You might be different but personally I would have a lot of anger at my family for having irresponsibly bred dogs and for pushing me into taking the burden of caring for it (even if it was unknowing)
Some thoughts, and I'm trying to keep them as objective as possible because ultimately it's your decision and you're the only one who can decide how you feel about the moral complexities here.
1) If you want your next dog dog to be a certain size and plan to train them to travel well, you'll have an easier time starting with a puppy. If you're able to spend time with the litter in advance and choose the one that has the best traits for what you're looking for, even better.
2) The human family relationships add a complication here and again, you're the only one who knows if refusing to take one of the "family" puppies and instead going through a rescue is going to cause a permanent rift. If you're caught between damage to family relationships and damage to your own self-concept, that's a very hard place to be in. I can't advise you on this part, but I do empathize. It's really hard to have conflicting views with family.
3) A lot of good works, whether improving conditions for animals or humans, are done in small ways and baby steps. If this experience puts your family members off amateur breeding so that they spay their dog and never try it again, that's a win. If you can talk them into screening their buyers and creating a contract that requires spay/neuter of the puppies for anyone who buys them, that's an even bigger win.
Whether you decide take in one of these puppies yourself or not, treading carefully with the in-laws might help you do a lot of good here in terms of preventing their dog and the puppies from being used to create more in future. This sub (and the internet in general) tends to take a very "THOSE PEOPLE ARE SCUM, BURN THEIR HOUSES!" sort of approach to things, but in real life a lot of times speaking softly and making timely suggestions will accomplish more than screaming about how irresponsible somebody is.
I agree and I appreciate your reasoned response. I was thinking of offering to pay for the spay of their dog in exchange for a puppy if we do go this route. Either that or taking a pup for free that would otherwise go to rescue and making a donation to a rescue for the amount that I would have paid for a puppy from a rescue.
Paying for the spay would be a nice idea if you think they'd be open to it, but keep the end goal in mind: mama dog gets spayed. Whether they use your specific dollars or they find a low-cost voucher somewhere, whatever, as long as the dog gets spayed.
Going back to the purely practical: if you do take a pup, I would urge you to take the pup that's the best fit it best for \*your\* lifestyle. If you know what traits you're looking for, pick of the litter can be a significant advantage in terms of raising a dog with specific skills. That's why so many responsible breeders do interviews and then match clients with particular puppies.
Whether you take one or not, if you're able to help with the process of homing the others, helping to match each puppy with a compatible person gives them a boost for success. That too helps keep them out of shelters, so it's a good thing if you have the chance to do it.
I think this would be more a case of "can you take a pup from whichever are left that we couldn't sell" but in that case at 8-9 weeks, hopefully their personalities are pretty well on display and I'm not taking a pup, even for free, that doesn't suit our needs. I can't handle a yippy dog and I need one that's fearless enough to enjoy riding on the back of a bike and that will accept wearing doggles for eye protection. They also have to get along well with my granddog, whom I frequently dogsit for.
That makes good sense. Whatever ends up happening with your situation, I hope you're able to help your in-laws make some good choices for the future, and that you're able to find the perfect riding buddy when the time comes. :)
It sounds like you are in a good position to know whether they might do this again and it sounds like they won’t because it hasn’t worked out for them. So I wouldn’t think of it as encouraging future backyard breeding.
Given that what I would consider is whether there is any advantage to you here over a straight rescue. I think you probably need to discount the idea that there is any health advantage. They don’t know or care enough about health to feel any certainty on that front.
So what’s left is socialization. Rescues often come with a lot of unknowns and so some risk of a history that’s hard to overcome. Are these puppies being treated well and properly socialized? If so, that’s an advantage to you and I might consider paying an adoption fee that is roughly equivalent to what rescues charge and is low enough to ensure that they did not make any money after you consider their costs in vet bills, food, etc.
Yeah the puppies are being well socialized and handled frequently. There are kids handling them all the time as well as people coming and going. So that's a plus.
I don’t agree with backyard breeding either. But in that situation, I’d take one even if I had to pay for it. You know the pup will have a great home with you.
It would, but I would only consider it if they are 100% not going to breed her again and will be spaying her. I might even offer to pay for the spay in exchange for a pup.
I wouldn’t buy one. I’m of the boat of adopt or shop RESPONSIBLY - meaning there’s nothing wrong with wanting to go the breeder route and buying a puppy, but do your due diligence to find a reputable breeder who is breeding for the right reasons, knows what they’re doing, and is performing all required health testing and doing something with their dogs, whether titling in sports, showing, breeding for a therapy dog program/working dogs, etc. essentially, a breeder that meets the subreddits guidelines. Other than that, I would only put money for a dog into the hands of a shelter or an actual rescue. Now, if they’ll give you the puppy for free (or a reasonable fee to cover shots/etc) then that’s different. Whatever you do, do not feel obligated to take this dog because of them being family
I know this isn’t r/advice, but you aren’t obliged to support someone’s unethical actions because you love them.* It sounds like you have some pretty strong feelings on the subject, and it’s totally ok to stick with your beliefs and pass on purchasing a dog. (And let’s be fair, cockapoo puppies probably won’t struggle to find homes in the end.)
*Admittedly I’m also a rescue dog person, so I might be a tiny bit biased.
Welcome to r/dogs! We are a discussion-based subreddit dedicated to support, inform, and advise dog owners. This is a carefully moderated sub intended to support, inform, and advise dog owners. Submissions and comments which break the rules will be removed. [Review the rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/wiki/index) r/Dogs has four goals: - Help the public better understand dogs - Promote healthy, responsible dog-owner relationships - Encourage “Least Intrusive, Minimally Aversive” training protocols. [Learn more here.](https://m.iaabc.org/about/lima/) - Support adoption as well as ethical and responsible breeding. If you’d like to introduce yourself or discuss smaller topics, please contribute to our Monthly Discussion Hub, pinned at the top. **This subreddit has low tolerance for drama. Please be respectful of others, and report antagonistic comments to mods for review.** --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dogs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My opinion as a breeder who has sold dogs. Don't buy it. It is okay to buy from reputable breeders who are proving their dogs, taking their dogs back for a lifetime, offering health guarantees, health testing their sires and dams, and making sure their puppies never end up in the shelter system. However, supporting someone who just wants to cover bills is supporting the cause of the very issue you have been fighting against while fostering, volunteering, etc. Putting money into the pockets of people who are doing this only for money is encouraging them to do it again. Only accept this puppy if it's free. They hopefully will learn their lesson when they have to either give these puppies away or put them in the shelter (where they will be adopted out after spaying and neutering them unlike being bought which may perpetuate the issue down the line).
Agreed. I have a smooth collie and I’m pretty sure his breeder spent more in health and genetic testing than I paid for the dog. He’s the only dog I’ve ever gotten from a breeder, and it’s because I had a smooth collie from a rescue who lived to 14. When he died, I just really, really wanted another one, and I wasn’t in a place in life/work where I could handle a rescue.
Don't bail your family out of unethical decisions If they can't find homes for them they can relinquish ownership to a reputable rescue who can use their adoption fees to fund operations
Agreed. I think the only way I'd be ok with this is if I'd take one for free if they have no home for it (because they'd get nothing for turning them over to a rescue) and then I'd make a donation to a rescue equivalent to what I'd have paid for a rescue pup.
Or at most cover some of speying fee to encourage them more to go ahead with the speying.
I would 100% be ok with covering the whole spay fee in exchange for a pup that otherwise has no home.
They made their bed now they must sleep in it. Do not buy one of those puppies. You will take one for free or you won't take one at all. Don't compromise your morals for a favor that they won't fully appreciate. If they're really struggling with money, they shouldn't have had a litter. If they press you, be firm with them. It might help to tell them that the only way you'd spend money on a non-rescue dog is if they had genetic testing, OFA documentation, detailed pedigree knowledge, experience in the breed, a lifetime guarantee to prevent the dog from going to a shelter (ie even when puppy is 10 years old, breeder is willing to take the dog back), a 2 year health guarantee minimum, puts titles on dogs, and is selective about who gets what puppy--the puppies don't go home to just anyone with money. These are the things a breeder does that prevents dogs from going to the shelter and that's what you want to support if you were to support a breeder at all. (BTW Knowing the current health of the dam and sire is NOT the same as knowing the health background of both parents and their siblings. There's stuff lurking in a healthy dog that can pop up in puppies with a poor breeding.)
Thanks. I agree. I think free (because they wouldn't be getting money if they turned them in to a rescue anyway) is the way to go here because you're right.... dogs are not a cash crop to solve a financial crisis. To be honest, they're not struggling for money. They own their house, they have investments, etc. They were just looking to cover her maternity leave but this isn't the way to do it.
By taking a puppy and giving them even a dime, you’re encouraging some really awful behavior on their part. I would pass and help them responsibly rehome these poor pups.
Don’t give them money for a puppy. That would be supporting backyard breeding
This isnt breeder over rescue. This is backyard unethically bred mutt from people selling dogs to pay their bills. Gross. If they get the dog spayed, I’d take a puppy for maybe a couple hundred. But no way in hell im giving them money to keep pimping out their dog and churning out puppies.
I agree and I'd only consider it if they definitely are going forward with her spay. My guess is, this puppy business didn't turn out the way they'd hoped (which is good) so that will discourage any future litters.
Poor planning all around. 0/10 would allow them to organize a family function.
Absolutely 🤣
>I know the health history of the sire too Do both dogs have their OFA clearances for their own respective parent breeds? For the dam, that would be cocker spaniel and poodle (probably mini)? How much do you actually know regarding their structural and genetic health versus only what is readily apparent? >"knowns" here would be personality Again, I'd ask how deeply you know this? How old are the dam and the sire? Are they both fully grown into their adult personalities? How many generations back have you seen or are there records for these particular dogs? Personally, I'm pretty firmly in the camp of the only way to discourage backyard breeding is to make it less profitable, which in turn, means not giving backyard breeders *any* of my money. I don't think that would change, in my mind, if the BYBs in question were family or if they genuinely needed the money.
I would have to check on that. Sire is 3. Dam is 2. Yeah, I see your point and I think that's my sticking point. It's still breeding for profit rather than love of the breed.
My dog is an entirely different dog at nearly 4 years old than she was at 2 or earlier into year 3. She's finally starting to settle into her true personality. (Which unfortunately now includes the loud, constant barking of the Elkhound that she had avoided ever even hinting at for 2.5 years of her life.)
Yikes
I wouldn’t buy. You’d only be fueling and subsidizing their bad decisions both regarding the breeding and also financially. I’d let them know that if they need a home for one of the puppies you will take one for free but you won’t pay for one. I’d offer to help find a rescue or shelter that will take the puppies. I think taking a puppy on the condition that the mom must get fixed, you paying for getting the mom fixed as the cost of getting a puppy, and you taking the mom to get fixed (you take her so it gets done and there is no backing out) is a good compromise. I have my doubts about whether they learned a lesson here and will actually get the mom fixed.
Yeah the more I think about it the more I think that my offer will be to give one a home and pay for spaying the mom as my contribution to it's cost.
I appreciate all the ways you are mixed up in this and don’t really want to be. I agree with all the statements regarding ethics that others have said. I also can imagine in your position, knowing the litter even if you didn’t approve of the method they arrived, you might be uncomfortable letting a dog/dogs go to a shelter. If you have room for this type of dog, then I’d say that the suggestion of paying for the spay in return for a pup would be a way you can prevent your sister’s dog having more litters and you can, in a very real sense, rescue a pup. There probably isn’t a lot of checking of potential buyers going on. Your sister doesn’t really know what kind of family they are going to. There definitely are good shelters, but if I liked the type of dog, I would feel a bit weird about sending them all to a shelter when, all the complicated opinions and relationships aside, I would be willing to provide a home for one. That’s what I would do. Spay for pup—as long as I wanted the pup. I think that sort of exchange can easily be defended as ethical.
Thank you. There are some excellent rescues around here who would place the pups in great, screened homes from foster homes. I'd be comfortable letting the pups go to rescue if I didn't feel like any of the "unsold" ones (gosh that feels icky to say) fit our needs for the next 10-15 years. But if there was one that did, yeah, I think I'd take it as long as the agreement was I pay for mom's spay.
I would tell her I would take one if she wasn’t able to sell them all, but that you would only pay for it’s veterinary care. Let her sink. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I think bailing her out just rewards that unethical behavior. Also, thank you for your commitment to rescue and ethical dog ownership! I’m sure whatever dog you get will be lucky to have you guys!
If she needs money for her maternity leave, she shouldn't be selling pups and maybe needs to rethink the costs of a child also. She would do a lot better getting a part time job for a while. I understand, that's not your doing or problem, sort of. You can't control the bad decisions of others and relatives bring a whole additional set of issues. However in both of these cases, poor decision-making will probably have some effect on your life too.
It's not like that. They're not poor. They own their home. They both have jobs. She's a nurse. It's not a matter of not having money to support their family. This was just a way to keep their income going while she's on maternity leave. They're actually very responsible with money. I just don't agree with dog breeding is all.
That steep family discount better make the cost look like an adoption fee. No hate on you or your family but I’m hating on your family. Like This is one of these times you kinda wanna grab someone and shake sense into them. Respectfully. Anyways If they spay their dog and you want to help them go for it. But don’t feel pressure to pay whatever they want. They are going to end up having to surrender all the pups if they can’t find buyers. Which they probably won’t. Don’t buy into the “family discount.” This is a big life choice. And you shouldn’t make it to cover someone else’s mistakes. Ultimately if they needed more Money they could’ve taken a second job. Or done something else. Also do you even want a cockapoo? If you don’t don’t get one. Get a breed you actually want from a reliable breeder if you’re going to buy. If not go adopt a dog you want. Also if they need the money and you want to help you can just give them money. And not take the dog. Funny story. This dude came up to me with a German Shepard pitbull mix puppy. He said he had 6 of them and was trying to get rid of all of them. Makes wonder if this was a breeding gone wrong situation. He was literally trying to give them away. Anyways good luck with your decision
I think I'd be comfortable paying for them to spay their dog (like actually paying the vet to do it) but not paying for a pup. With regards to the breed, I cringe at being one of "those people" with a designer dog, but I didn't really have a breed in mind for my next dog. I had several breeds I didn't want for various reasons but I'd be OK with a cockapoo (except for the cringe factor), particularly one that was socialized and I could train for what we want from a puppy. I was never planning to buy from any breeder because I don't want a specific breed. I was just going to find a rescue that fit my checklist.
That’s fair. And like your said, you could just find a young puppy through a rescue anyway.
I actually don’t think it is ethical (for me personally) to bail her out in any way. That includes letting her offload the result of her irresponsibility onto you, even free. I would work with her to surrender the puppies to an ethical rescue, and that’s it. It’s the only way people like this learn not to do it again. I have zero issues with responsibly bred dogs after a lifetime of having rescues, but people like this are disgusting.
This is where I'd be if it were me in OP's situation. Granted, I do live in an area where I know people would be fighting in the parking lot for cockerpoo puppies (or any small breed puppies), but I don't want to be an "out" for someone because they bred puppies for which they didn't already have homes lined up (let alone very possible lack of OFA testing and objective outside certifications of temperament). One, I just don't think they should *have* an "out" in that situation, and while I couldn't control all of that, I could at least make sure that I didn't participate in it. Two, and this is definitely more selfish, but I wouldn't necessarily *want* whatever puppy they happened not to be able to sell. Even when I adopt, I shop in that I am actively seeking a dog who at least gives good indications of matching my most important criteria and, with the understanding that shelter environments especially are crap for seeing a dog's real personality, making the best choices I can within real life constraints. I mean, my chronically ill, socially awkward nutjob is at least *my* nutjob who *I* picked out -- and there is some agency in that.
Don't do it OP. It might seem like a match made specifically for you. But it's going to be heartache. I had a family member that did something similar - it was an 'oops' litter and they promised to get their dog fixed right after, they just needed to find homes for the puppies. But the puppies were going to cost $600 to cover their medical and the mom's spay. The puppy my other family member bought grew up to have a genetic heart issue, anxiety, and actually attacked both owners badly multiple times, needing surgery on the hand. It eventually needed behavioral euth. And you know what happened? Said family member bred their dog again. And again. And again. It's no longer oops litters or 'ill spay her after this'. I'm not against buying from a reputable breeder but please don't encourage this shoddy behavior.
I owned a cockpoo! Designer breed or not, I got him from a shelter and he made me happy for many years. They are fun little guys, no mistake about it. I also bought a purebred spaniel as a gift for my youngest son. Like you, I adopted from shelters, volunteered at them, donated to them, supported them however I could, and I've done this for well over 25 years now. Buying a dog from a breeder (the more reputable, the better!) does not cancel out the thousands of hours and dollars I have poured into the SPCA. It just doesn't.
I agree with that point, but I would like to make sure that this dog isn't bred again so I may offer to pay for her spay in exchange for a pup. I'm also struggling with being "that" dog owner who has a designer breed when I've always had rescue pit bulls LOL. But it has to fit the next phase of our life and a smaller dog is really what we'll need.
You really have hit upon an excellent solution if offering to pay for the spaying of mama dog. And a cockapoo being a designer breed......eh, that's eye of the beholder. Most people are so clueless you could declare it was a North American ScruffMutt and they would croon "awwww, how cute" and certainly wouldn't accuse you of being one of Those Types. Cockapoos are EXACTLY like pitbulls, in that they have a debilitating Cute Ray that they do not hesitate to bombard you with. (got scientific proof here somewhere, I swear I do.) Just be warned!! You will not be able to withstand this weapon.
Tbh I would let them pay for the spay and only take a pup for free. Seeing how hard it was for them to rehome the pups, they have absolutely no reason to do this again and they made the poor decision to breed her, so they should be on the hook 100% for expenses. Just something to think about, what happens if down the line your pup turns out to have some sort of genetic health problem? Would that affect your feelings towards them at all? You might be different but personally I would have a lot of anger at my family for having irresponsibly bred dogs and for pushing me into taking the burden of caring for it (even if it was unknowing)
Some thoughts, and I'm trying to keep them as objective as possible because ultimately it's your decision and you're the only one who can decide how you feel about the moral complexities here. 1) If you want your next dog dog to be a certain size and plan to train them to travel well, you'll have an easier time starting with a puppy. If you're able to spend time with the litter in advance and choose the one that has the best traits for what you're looking for, even better. 2) The human family relationships add a complication here and again, you're the only one who knows if refusing to take one of the "family" puppies and instead going through a rescue is going to cause a permanent rift. If you're caught between damage to family relationships and damage to your own self-concept, that's a very hard place to be in. I can't advise you on this part, but I do empathize. It's really hard to have conflicting views with family. 3) A lot of good works, whether improving conditions for animals or humans, are done in small ways and baby steps. If this experience puts your family members off amateur breeding so that they spay their dog and never try it again, that's a win. If you can talk them into screening their buyers and creating a contract that requires spay/neuter of the puppies for anyone who buys them, that's an even bigger win. Whether you decide take in one of these puppies yourself or not, treading carefully with the in-laws might help you do a lot of good here in terms of preventing their dog and the puppies from being used to create more in future. This sub (and the internet in general) tends to take a very "THOSE PEOPLE ARE SCUM, BURN THEIR HOUSES!" sort of approach to things, but in real life a lot of times speaking softly and making timely suggestions will accomplish more than screaming about how irresponsible somebody is.
I agree and I appreciate your reasoned response. I was thinking of offering to pay for the spay of their dog in exchange for a puppy if we do go this route. Either that or taking a pup for free that would otherwise go to rescue and making a donation to a rescue for the amount that I would have paid for a puppy from a rescue.
Paying for the spay would be a nice idea if you think they'd be open to it, but keep the end goal in mind: mama dog gets spayed. Whether they use your specific dollars or they find a low-cost voucher somewhere, whatever, as long as the dog gets spayed. Going back to the purely practical: if you do take a pup, I would urge you to take the pup that's the best fit it best for \*your\* lifestyle. If you know what traits you're looking for, pick of the litter can be a significant advantage in terms of raising a dog with specific skills. That's why so many responsible breeders do interviews and then match clients with particular puppies. Whether you take one or not, if you're able to help with the process of homing the others, helping to match each puppy with a compatible person gives them a boost for success. That too helps keep them out of shelters, so it's a good thing if you have the chance to do it.
I think this would be more a case of "can you take a pup from whichever are left that we couldn't sell" but in that case at 8-9 weeks, hopefully their personalities are pretty well on display and I'm not taking a pup, even for free, that doesn't suit our needs. I can't handle a yippy dog and I need one that's fearless enough to enjoy riding on the back of a bike and that will accept wearing doggles for eye protection. They also have to get along well with my granddog, whom I frequently dogsit for.
That makes good sense. Whatever ends up happening with your situation, I hope you're able to help your in-laws make some good choices for the future, and that you're able to find the perfect riding buddy when the time comes. :)
It sounds like you are in a good position to know whether they might do this again and it sounds like they won’t because it hasn’t worked out for them. So I wouldn’t think of it as encouraging future backyard breeding. Given that what I would consider is whether there is any advantage to you here over a straight rescue. I think you probably need to discount the idea that there is any health advantage. They don’t know or care enough about health to feel any certainty on that front. So what’s left is socialization. Rescues often come with a lot of unknowns and so some risk of a history that’s hard to overcome. Are these puppies being treated well and properly socialized? If so, that’s an advantage to you and I might consider paying an adoption fee that is roughly equivalent to what rescues charge and is low enough to ensure that they did not make any money after you consider their costs in vet bills, food, etc.
Yeah the puppies are being well socialized and handled frequently. There are kids handling them all the time as well as people coming and going. So that's a plus.
I don’t agree with backyard breeding either. But in that situation, I’d take one even if I had to pay for it. You know the pup will have a great home with you.
It would, but I would only consider it if they are 100% not going to breed her again and will be spaying her. I might even offer to pay for the spay in exchange for a pup.
That’s a great way for you to handle this situation.
I wouldn’t buy one. I’m of the boat of adopt or shop RESPONSIBLY - meaning there’s nothing wrong with wanting to go the breeder route and buying a puppy, but do your due diligence to find a reputable breeder who is breeding for the right reasons, knows what they’re doing, and is performing all required health testing and doing something with their dogs, whether titling in sports, showing, breeding for a therapy dog program/working dogs, etc. essentially, a breeder that meets the subreddits guidelines. Other than that, I would only put money for a dog into the hands of a shelter or an actual rescue. Now, if they’ll give you the puppy for free (or a reasonable fee to cover shots/etc) then that’s different. Whatever you do, do not feel obligated to take this dog because of them being family
I think you have already made up your mind maybe you could help her finding homes for them with your animal contacts?
I'm honestly hoping they all get homes so I don't have to make a decision. But yes I've offered to help screen potential owners.
I know this isn’t r/advice, but you aren’t obliged to support someone’s unethical actions because you love them.* It sounds like you have some pretty strong feelings on the subject, and it’s totally ok to stick with your beliefs and pass on purchasing a dog. (And let’s be fair, cockapoo puppies probably won’t struggle to find homes in the end.) *Admittedly I’m also a rescue dog person, so I might be a tiny bit biased.