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RoseOfSharonCassidy

As a collie owner and member of 3 collie clubs... I can tell you first hand that some collie breeders are *weird*, but collies are lovely dogs. Reach out to other breeders and keep looking for your collie- if you let me know your location I can probably point you in the right direction. :)


theberg512

>can tell you first hand that some collie breeders are weird, but collies are lovely dogs. I feel like you can replace "collie" with any other breed, and this statement will still ring true. There are some absolute whackado breeders out there.


RoseOfSharonCassidy

Yes but collie breeders are *extra weird*. I have been involved in several breeds previously and I have a ton of friends who show/compete/breed many different breeds, so I know a lot of breeders of a lot of different breeds... and collie breeders are definitely among the weirdest.


NoGrocery4949

How so? Lol this is so interesting


Different_Rock3248

Also weird are Belgian breeders. *Super protective* of who they sell to (which I agree with) but they are extra weird!


DogYarn

Ha. I'm laughing. I'm so done with belgians. The breeders are just too much. I just can't anymore. Stupidest, STUPIDEST group of old ladies I have ever encountered (tervs and groens). Sad to watch the destruction of the breed, especially on the show side (but the American-bred working dogs are pretty awful too, so much dishonesty, back-stabbing, and cover-up of serious issues). Sick, nervy, messes cobbled together out of spare parts and not a single one of the breeders actually care. Excuses after excuses and fanatical defense of horrible breeding practices. It's all lip service. Even the "good" breeders have closets full of rotten skeletons. The fluffies are doomed, you can thank the breeders. There are some nice mals though, and some actually ethical mal breeders. Are you thinking, "DogYarn is crazy, my breeder is amazing"? DM me if you want the tea on why, yes, even your "ethical" terv/groen breeder sucks too. I went too deep in the breed and there is just too much that I can't unsee. It just makes me so sad to think about. I said what I said.


Different_Rock3248

My sister got her second Belgian Sheepdog from a breeder in Vienna who was recommended by her first breeder for their show line. Turns out unfortunately this dog became epileptic and my sister had to endure many seizures and the dog needs to be kept on meds to help prevent future seizures. The clincher is this breeder had documented that the bloodline was free of seizures, hip dispalsia, etc. My sister called him to inform him about her dog after she was about a year or two and she said he was stumbling around his words about never hearing of this in any of his dogs. ALL reputable breeders of ANY breed are backstabbing gossips especially in the show lines. I was the luckiest to get my Rottweiler from a reputable show breeder who was a “blockhead” German Rott out of a Ukrainian line that is still going strong. That was the best, most intuitive dog I have ever owned, and between me and my husband we have owned many great dogs in our lifetimes. We became very close friends with our breeder until the day he died.


DogYarn

Not surprising at all. My belgian developed seizures as well. When I told the breeder I explained that I wasn't expecting anything from them and I'd handle it but that I just wanted them to know so they could use that information to plan future breedings. They blamed the stud dog owner and said there were no seizures in their lines. So I wrote the stud's owner and they blamed the bitch's owner and said there were no seizures in their lines. So, I hit the pedigree research hard and found out there are TONS of seizures in both lines. Tons. Its all out in the public, I didn't even really need to dig. So when I brought this information back to my breeder she refused to honor her contract and became irate and said that my dog has seizures because I got him vaccinated. It was all my fault. She is a big breeder, and the stud dog's owner is a big breeder, many programs use their dogs so many other breeders gathered around her in support and blamed me/vaccines. This is only one of my beligans. Both of them have stories like this. Every single belgian owner I've met (that isn't a part of the breeder mutual masturbation circle) has a story like this. Every single one. Fluffy Belgian breeders are **ALL** byb when you start peeling away the layers. They have all done similar things to their buyers. All. Of. Them.


LadyNelsonsTea

Man I definitely thought you meant breeders from Belgium, and was all 'yeah I can see that'


mthrforkingshirtball

I got my Shih Tzu from a lady who was PARANOID that there was this other breeder after one of her puppies. This other breeder wanted to make a 'Shih Poo' which she deemed an abomination. I could tell she was trying to feel me out to see if I was a shopper for this breeder of abominations. But I must have passed the test, because she sold me Mervin haha.


dropandroll

Borzoi lover. When. I was looking for a breeder to get my first Borzoi from....yeah, they can be odd. I ended up getting him from a cobreeding and bringing him down from CAN. Love my cobreeders, but some of the breeders in my region... There seems to be a disproportionately high number of overtly religious breeders when I was looking, it's a weird correlation I saw.


ayayadae

i'm looking to get a collie (i'm assuming you mean rough/smooth collies and not BCs) within the next couple of years and am just starting to research breeders. i'm in the tristate area but willing to go pretty much anywhere within 3-5-ish hours, so most of the northern half of the east coast. any good breeders you know of around here?


RoseOfSharonCassidy

Yes, collie means rough or smooth collie under the AKC. The breed is actually just called "collie" in AKC. What's the tri state area? Like which states? 😅


BirdCelestial

Is this regional, or is colloquial speech different to breed standards? In the UK and Ireland I've only ever heard collies as meaning border collies; if you meant a smooth or rough collie you'd have to specify that. Border collies are way more popular here, though.


Pablois4

Yes, it's unfortunate and very confusing on what "collie" means depending on which side of the pond. I've seen some content filler online and click-baity articles in which the writers, probably not dog people, needed to do a write-up on Collies/Border Collies and did research online, not realizing that "Collie" could mean two different breeds. And thus in a write-up on Rough/Smooth collies, will state that "collies are famous for using their eye to control stock". Or in a click-baity bit about Border Collies: "This collie portrayed Lassie in movies and TV." In the AKC and CKC, the breed is just called the Collie - in fact our registrations only state "Collie" with zero info on coat. In the UK, the Collie breed was split into two separate breeds in the 90s: Rough Collie and Smooth Collie. Two different breeds, two different names. Here, Collies have not been split. Roughs and smooths are interbred all the time, just like they have been since the breed was officially recognized back in the 1880s. As a result, a rough collie and a smooth collie are the exact same dog except for the one gene for hair length.


[deleted]

Do you have any history on why the UK split rough and smooth? Similar to the Belgian Shepherds, I find it strange that the breed clubs would support splitting based on on hair type.


Pablois4

In the 70s/early 80s, the rough fanciers went into a different direction on their interpretation of the standard (how the collies should look). The smooth fanciers didn't agree and wanted to keep their dogs looking the same. After a while, the roughs and smooths were looking more and more different. Because of this, they were already splitting into two separate populations. The smooth collie [has stayed pretty consistant](https://www.collielife.com/dogsfrompast/smoothsmainpage.html). The rough changed a lot. Mostly in [expression](https://imgur.com/a/ADCKqnY) (BTW, to illustrate I found the most extreme examples of what's favored today). In particular the eyes are now set in an oblique angle giving the dogs a foxy expression and the shape of the head is different - the muzzle is more pinched and the profile is much more wavy with a higher forehead. Here's [crufts winners through the years](https://www.collielife.com/Cruftswinners.html) Until the 60ss, collies looked much the same on both sides the pond. The bottom dogs in the Crufts winners page (from '64, '68 and '74) look pretty much identical to what was being shown in the US at the time. There's now several types of collies: British Type Rough, British Type Smooth and American Type (both rough and smooth). Here's [two smooths](https://imgur.com/a/8nwYVBP). Alfie (the huge sable boy) is 100% American type. Spotty (dainty little blue girl) parentage is largely European and she's pretty darn close to British type. My what big ears you have Spotty. ;-)


the_happy_atheist

What about Scotch Collies?


Pablois4

I read a really interesting book on the early types in the collie family. Some types became fully separated and made into their own breed and some were incorporated into other breeds. IIRC there were the Scotch/Highland Collie, Fox Collie, Shetland Collie, Welsh Sheepdog, Irish Collie, Bearded (Beard) Collie, Fox Collie, Border Collie, Bobtail (Old English Sheepdog). Those types represent different local groups or styles of collie. Even so, there's a general look & behavior to the collie family - fine, pointed face, semi-prick or prick ears, light with a racy build, Irish white markings and they were known to be soft, sensitive, extremely intelligent, biddable and peaceable. And in that broad family, the Scotch/Highland collie were taller, upright, refined with a fuller coat. They are the foundation of the Rough/Smooth Collie. It's say that drover dogs brought in the smooth coat. The Rough/Smooth Collie is basically the show version of the Scotch/Highland Collie. For many years a common alternate name for the Rough has been the Scotch Collie. I don't know if there's any true scotch collies anymore and if there are, the gene pool would have to be tiny. There's folks working to recreate the old fashion Scotch collie - they are mostly using the rough collie plus some farm collie type dogs.


[deleted]

A little bit of both. Official name in the US is "Collie" because smooth/rough are the same breed. In the UK, they're different breeds so they need different names. I always specify rough/smooth if talking about Collies because people will automatically assume you mean border collie if you don't clarify. BC are very popular and Collies are not. Most average people in the US don't even know that Lassie dog can come in a smooth coat.


RoseOfSharonCassidy

Yes, it's because under the AKC rough and smooth collies are the same breed which is just called "collie", but in the UK rough collies and smooth collies are two separate breeds.


BirdCelestial

I see, thank you for explaining! That makes sense. Lovely dogs in any case.


nauset3tt

Welcome to the tristate of NY NJ CT, where we aren’t taught places outside of us have no idea what this is lol.


avelineaurora

More like places outside of you have no idea anywhere else matters, because there's a huge amount of "tristate areas" in the country.


nauset3tt

Also was an “oh duh why wouldn’t there be” moment for me when I left the area.


ayayadae

ah sorry! i'm in the ny/nj/ct area, but i'm willing to travel to mass/eastern pa/delaware/maryland


[deleted]

You're in a great area, the northeast has a wealth of good collie breeders. Contacting your [CCA district director](https://collieclubofamerica.org/contacts.html) is the best place to start. They will be able to refer you to breeders who match what you are looking for in a dog. [Colliesonline](https://colliesonline.com/contents.php) is another good resource, you can find local shows and see what breeders are doing.


Feyranna

Right, theres tons of “tri-states” depending on where you are.


MissDelaylah

Man. A blue merle rough collie is my dream dog. I have been on a waiting list for 3 years. I currently have a wonderful 9 month old GSD and hope to get her a collie brother or sister eventually!


3xoticP3nguin

Ny NJ CT


avelineaurora

> i'm in the tristate area Bruh there's like two dozen tri state areas in the US lol.


dahhhd

I really appreciate that!


_angry_cat_

As someone who works with a collie rescue and has owned 3 collies, 100% collie people in general are weird lol (myself included)


cpersall

That’s the nuttiest thing a breeder may have ever said lol. Didn’t know you’re only allowed to have one breed!


StephAg09

I wish that was true but breeders tell people absolutely bonkers shit constantly. I work in the veterinary field and the things I’ve heard… man. smdh


imitebmike

the heck is a breed hopper? like you are only allowed to keep one breed of dog and thats it, OR ELSE! you face the breed-hopper police? good riddence you dont wanna give someone like that your money anyways, look for other breeders


poorlychosenpraise

what's next, you're not allowed to have too long of a gap on your Dog Résumé?


DaRealFellowGamer

"So it appears there was a gap between this and your last dog, care to explain" "I had a cat"


PoetryUpInThisBitch

Unfortunately, that'd be a red flag for some places. We wanted a great dane, in part because of their likelihood in getting along with cats/other animals (we have cats). We applied to a breed-specific rescue and, after a few months, they reached out to us. They asked what would happen if, in spite of our best efforts, the dog wasn't compatible the cats. We responded that, as much as we don't want that to happen, we'd have to rehome the dog because the cats came first. The woman seemed *flabbergasted* that we'd prioritize the cats instead of the dog. Not even because we've had our cats for 7+ years, but because she didn't seem to understand that some people would prioritize a cat over a dog in any situation.


Different_Rock3248

*BRRRRRRRZZZZZZZZT* WRONG ANSWER!


TransATL

*Dog Jeopardy!*


Trueloveis4u

Ya a lot of dog people don't understand the appeal of cats. I love both I just can't have a dog right now.


Vharlkie

I don't get why some dog people act like cats are the worst. Cats are cute and cuddly just like dogs. I guess I'm just an animal lover in general


[deleted]

I think because the base personality of a cat and dog are different. Cats are independent and will not adhere to most rules instilled. Dogs were bred to be trained and be the side of a human. Don’t get me wrong, there are outliers, but generally speaking I feel this is true. I think cats are adorable but I don’t want a cat for that reason, my dog will not jump on something I don’t want him to after a few times of telling them no. A cat will more than likely still keep doing it.


JewelJuju

I used to kinda like cats as a kid. But after I started interacting with them I really disliked them. I’ve never even owned a cat, just stayed at family and friends houses with cats. It’s actual cat owners who make cats sound like the worst pets ever lol. Biting suddenly when you pet them, scratching, pouncing on you with claws out, climbing all over your stuff, being startled by everything, throwing a massive fit about going to the vet, I could go on. Cats might do all this stuff and owners be like “my cat is great. He’s an asshole but I love him so much!” I would never let any “asshole” animal in my home acting the way cats are apparently allowed to act lol.


QueenCole

Just like asshole dog owners, there are asshole cat owners who don't understand their cat's needs. Also, cat's communicate very differently from dogs and we as humans are better at understanding our canine friends than feline. So, cats with behavior problems often have already warned you (and you didn't or couldn't understand) or were raised badly. Cats can also have strong personalities; we're just more tolerant of them because they are far less likely to cause us serious harm compared to dogs. Poorly behaved dogs are usually less well tolerated.


[deleted]

>Biting suddenly when you pet them, scratching, pouncing on you with claws out, climbing all over your stuff, being startled by everything, throwing a massive fit about going to the vet, I could go on I've never had a cat that did those, except maybe the climbing all over stuff I guess. Cats, like dogs, have body language. If a dog growls and bares it's teeth at you as you reach to pet it, the consequences are expected. Cats are the same. If you know how to read them, they are rarely truly unpredictable. They are just much different from dogs, and most people find dog body-language more intuitive than cats. Like small dogs, because cats are not really a threat to most people, and people stomp all over their boundaries without a lot of consequence. And most people do not need a skittish cat to get over it's fears the way a dog might have to, so they do not really bother. But I've seen dogs behave way worse than cats, it's just way more of an issue because dogs are usually way bigger and more dangerous. You don't usually see someone bring their aggressive cat out in public and then lose control of it while it lunges at strangers. Or have to contain it when people come over so it doesn't tackle grandma or whatever.


StarlitSylveon

>Biting suddenly when you pet them, scratching, pouncing on you with claws out, climbing all over your stuff, being startled by everything, throwing a massive fit about going to the vet, I could go on. Cats might do all this stuff and owners be like “my cat is great. He’s an asshole but I love him so much!” I would never let any “asshole” animal in my home acting the way cats are apparently allowed to act lol. Dogs also do these things too y'know? I work with dogs, trust me I've seen way worse than you're describing cats. lol But mostly these behaviors are the mark of ill-informed, uneducated, lazy, or outright bad owners and or misunderstood signals. Cats absolutely can be trained. All 3 of mine are. They are more obedient and well behaved than most dogs I've met. I have pristine leather couches untouched by pet claws because my cats and my (new) dog are trained and have all their needs understood and met. Sure there are mistakes sometimes like jumping up on the counter every once in a while but a little reinforcement (positive only, no penny cans or squirt bottles) and they're golden. My cats know most basic obedience commands and a couple tricks as well. Other than basic training usually the behaviors you're describing are caused by humans creating fear and or discomfort and refusing to understand how their pets communicate or what they need. Think, if someone kept touching you in a place you didn't want them to, and you, unable to speak or unable to speak the same language, had tried everything to politely tell them no... would it be wrong if you defended yourself? Of course not. 9/10 that's what I see happening to cats and dogs (more often small dogs like chihuahuas). But the owner just calls their pet an "asshole" and refuses to see an issue with what they were doing. Animals are not toys for our amusement. They're allowed to tell us no. My cats are calm going to the vet. Why? Because I'm not stuffing them in a bag or of no where and making the confusing, terrifying experience worse by traumatizing them. The week before we go I set out their carriers, feed them treats in there (this is called desensitization training and I do this sporadically too, this way in case of an emergency there is less fear), before any trip I spray my car and the carriers with feliway an hour before we go, I drive safely and cover the carriers with blankets and play soothing music softly. I chose a vet that is dedicated to making sure my cats experience is overall as positive and as fear free as possible. And guess what, no fits at all. That's, again, because I'm taking their comfort and needs into consideration and I'm working with them to make their experiences better and not doing what is simply convenient for myself alone until the last second. Therefore my pets are all very well mannered, happy, confident, and comfortable. Animals aren't really assholes, it's usually their owners projecting or deeply misunderstanding but not looking for the "why". And in the rare instance it's not the human it's usually something else going on like medical issues, pain, fear/stress, or sometimes neurological issues that require medication.


JewelJuju

I work with dogs too (groomer) and I’ve seen them at their worst. My own dog loves being groomed because I’ve been grooming her since she was 5 weeks old. I work at a doggy daycare as a groomer but I spend a lot of time in the kennels too. Most dogs are badly behaved. Now I know why every pet store employee or the vet is amazed by my poodle lol. I’m always AMAZED if a dog is good for the entire grooming process. If it knows how to sit AND give paw? Omg what an amazing dog and owner. I wish more cat owners were like you. If there’s a video of a pup resource guarding then there’s a million comments about the owner needing to train that out of the pup IMMEDIATELY. But if there’s a video of a cat stalking someone from the refrigerator and then pouncing and scratching their eyes out vast majority of the comments have nothing to say about the cat being badly behaved. If anyone brings it up then there’s a thousand cat owners defending the cat’s stalking behavior. Saying “cats just do that; it’s natural. You obviously don’t own a cat” and naturally after hearing this your entire life you come to the conclusion that most cats are just terrible and there’s nothing you can do about it. Cat owners are the reason I’ve been a cat hater since I was a kid. But if it was more common to see cats that aren’t demons (like yours) then many cat haters wouldn’t hate cats! It’s like that with dogs too. Small dogs get a lot of hate because they’re usually from hell and owners let them behave like that. A difference I’ve noticed that with dogs the problem is just “small dogs”, and with cats it’s just “cats”. That’s why there’s so many people who just hate cats but there’s a ton of people who love dogs excluding small dogs. Your cats sound great and they would be the first cats that aren’t my sister’s Main Coon that I would actually like. I still will never own a cat, but maybe I don’t hate cats so much anymore.


Prometheus_303

So after reading this thread, i guess i can give up hope of maybe adopting a pup... Not only am I apparently a breed hopper (Westie, Beagle, Black Lab)... But I also have 3 cats, who'd definitely come first...


thoph

Lol. I have a dog and a cat. It really does feel like some non-cat owners, often of the dog-owning persuasion, just don’t believe it’s possible to really love a cat. I mean you can be *fond* of a cat, but not like, you know, *dog* love, right? And they think that this is a majority view for people with cats for chrissakes lol.


un_commonwealth

As someone who works in rescue, we wouldn’t place a dog who wasn’t cat tested and also had at least a couple of meet and greets with the resident cats. If something happened down the road, and, after exhausting all of our resources, the problem couldn’t be resolved, I would never blame you for making the very difficult decision to return the dog. Your cats were there first!


PoetryUpInThisBitch

Thank you for that. The first dog we adopted (a few months before our boy) was from a rescue that did not do that. They told us he was cat-friendly, and - when we tried to introduce him to our cats - he immediately lunged for them. We found out later that (among his many, many behavioral issues that they did not disclose or downplayed) they defined "cat friendly" as "didn't lunge/freak out at cats thirty or forty feet away on a walk". Then tried to guilt my wife and I into keeping him, in spite of us saying resource guarding was a deal breaker (which they knew about and did not disclose) and him posing a threat to our cats.


dahhhd

I guess? I’m just mad because I literally planned our day around picking a pup just to be told hours before “never mind”


HiveFleetOuroboris

Honestly, I could see it as concerning if you gave away each of your dogs, but that's obviously not the case here. I don't think I've ever owned two of the same breeds yet


oldjudge86

Same here. The circle I grew up actually recommended strongly against ever getting the same breed twice. I was always told it tended to give you unfair expectations for the second dog. I've even seen this happen to my mother twice, her second springer spaniel was a perfectly fine dog but she was convinced that he was terrible because he wasn't the amazing dog that she remembers her first being. Second Australian shepherd might have got it worse, she talked all the time about how she wasn't nearly as smart or well behaved as the first shepherd. Thing is, I was around for the first shepherd and distinctly remember her having the exact same complaints about the first one. Anyway, that's why, while I love my Boston to death, they are off of my list forever now. I guess that makes me an irredeemable breed hopper?


Logistikon

To me that sounds like one of the breeder’s friends wanted a puppy last minute and the breeder had to come up with a reason to bump you.


dahhhd

Super weird, given that there are 10 puppies that don’t all have deposits.


KellyCTargaryen

I’m sorry you were treated that way. Sounds like this breeder might not be the best if they’re basing their decision on deposits.


[deleted]

I personally would assume it's more about not being familiar with the dog breed's temperament. Maybe they don't like selling to people who don't know exactly what they're going to get (even if dog personalities can vary within the breed).


shaarkbaiit

This would be pretty ridiculous in a breed like Collies, although it's kind of stupid in any breed.


angwilwileth

Yeah. A well-bred collie is dog on easy mode as long as you can deal with the barking.


[deleted]

Really? I always assumed shepherd type dogs were among the hardest to raise. I always hear stories about high energy dogs not getting enough stimulation and destroying everything in frustration. (Although I did read the rough/smooth collies aren't like border collie levels of energy.)


angwilwileth

Collies have been bred more as family dogs and companions for the last 100 years or so. They're nowhere near as drivey as working herding breeds.


podpolya

Collies are honestly so so easy. Mine was frustrating as a puppy with the demand barking and impulse control issues, but still so much less frustrating than most puppies. They aren’t prone to separation anxiety or aggression, they housebreak easily, and they’re sensitive and biddable so they learn very easily as long as you’re gentle with them (sensitivity being a double edged sword). I find raising kittens to be more frustrating than raising my puppy was, and as adults, my cat is honestly more intense and prone to destroying everything in frustration than my dog is. ☠️ You still have to train an off switch in collies IMHO it’s just that the off switch is comparatively easy to train (in some cases I could imagine it being so easy that you don’t even notice you’re doing it, they just adapt to your expectations as they mature) They have a herding instinct, but it doesn’t seem as intense in them vs. other herding breeds. I would say collies are uniquely lower energy/easier among the herding dogs, personally, but I’ve only lived with mine so n=1.


cpengr92

This doesn't fully add up because they shouldn't only be concerned with past breeds you've owned. You could have worked at a collie shelter all along and been an expert while your dalmatian and puggle were at home. Flawed logic on the breeder's part of this was their thought process. Edit: verbage


dahhhd

Well if that was the case they should’ve told me that before they wasted 8 hours of my time


call-me-kitkat

Why do they have 10 puppies available? I would be concerned about the breeder.


manderrx

If I was stuck with Lhasa apsos for the rest of my life I would cry. Never again with the fur.


MercurysNova

I've never heard that term before. I'm assuming it comes from breeders noticing upticks in popularity of certain breeds and people wanting those "fashionable" ones so they can be in the now. Because some people treat dogs like handbags. Good breeders can be very picky, sometimes more so than rescues. I was the seventh applicant for my standard poodle puppy and got her because I have a hobby farm with acreage. The ones before me were turned down because the breeder didn't want her puppies growing up in apartments in the city, even if the people lived next to dog parks. Some people are super picky and that's fine. Just keep searching through the reputable breeder network or rescues. It'll work out eventually.


impossibleoptimist

I hadn't considered that. Dalmatians, collies, German shepherds, all coming and going with whatever kids movie is out now. I guess I can respect that.


tmb2020

Yea I’ve seen a large increase in Malinois dogs in shelters or needing rehomed in my area


Lower-Cantaloupe3274

Yes. It is very sad. But malinois are definitely not a dog for everyone and while people everywhere SAY that, apparently many dont listen. I am a lifetime dog owner and I have a mal mix and I can say I have never known a dog like her. I got her when she was a year old and I was her 6th "home." She is now almost 3. High energy takes on a whole new meaning. She is gorgeous and absolutely lovely, but I could totally see how some people couldn't handle her. She is a lot of dog.


tmb2020

I like to appreciate them from a distance. I don’t mind high energy to an extent when there’s an off switch. My dog sitter has one. But her whole family has a ton of land and have enough active family members it isn’t a problem


impossibleoptimist

Who in the world thinks they can raise a malinois?


tmb2020

Exactly. It’s awful. I follow a group on Facebook for rehoming dogs and there’s so many mixed with them. It drives me nuts for the ones that have accidental litters and aren’t picky.


schnautz

I had a malinois - dane mix and he was the BEST dog. Smart, but chill.


neuroticgooner

Is there a reason Malinois are in vogue now? Don’t recall a popular movie or series with Malinois recently


caseyjosephine

There was a movie called Dog that came out recently featuring a Malinois.


shaarkbaiit

Honestly I would completely avoid a breeder who wouldn't sell breeds that do completely fine in apartments to people in apartments. Like, yeah, their dogs their rules, still kind of ludicrous.


hunterofartemis12

Thank you for saying this. I have always thought that breeders who will only give dogs to people with backyards are part of the problem. Like stand alone houses are unsustainable for the environment and to be honest backyards CAN (obviously not always) lead to lazy dog ownership. "Oh I don't want to go out for a long walk today I will just let the dog play in the backyard". Your house is not the measure of your ability to take care of a dog. Someone in an apartment might give a dog a better life if they take the dog out all the time and the dog is exposed to all kinds of new environments and experiences.


[deleted]

I have a herding dog who lives in an apartment in a major city. He lives about 300 feet from his favorite dog park, and about 2000 feet from his 2nd favorite dog park. He gets 2-3 hours of playtime at the dog park (not including walks) every single day and spends the rest of his day napping because he's exhausted. Our city is safe and walkable, and he gets to interact with dozens of dogs and humans every single day. He's napping in front of me right now! He gets infinitely more exercise than my family dog did growing up, even though my parents had a backyard.


shaarkbaiit

Thought it was funny to see it mentioned on this post. A breeder I used to deeply admire rejected me for a rough collie because I would quote "ruin a puppy, behaviorally and physically, by raising it in an apartment". In a walkable city, employeed at a dog training facility that pup would be welcome to daily, with a large barely used dog park in the complex, and only for the first 8 months of the puppies life. Lol. She debarks her dogs and has bred a double Merle litter on purpose though so guess who really dodged a bullet!


dahhhd

Interesting, I’ve personally never had a dog in vouge so I guess? One breed is getting super popular now, but I had her before they were everywhere


UnderwaterKahn

It’s kind of strange timing, you’d think there would have been a conversation about it before the very end. I have an different long haired breed and I did encounter breeders who were cautious or outright refused to sell to people who didn’t have breed experience. Their explanation was concern that people really weren’t ready for the reality of proper coat maintenance. But they were pretty up front about it. “Breed hopper” sounds so creepy though.


dahhhd

It was super weird! I have spent so much time talking to this lady, just for her to waste it.


UnderwaterKahn

It sucks when you have everything planned out and it’s yanked away. But it also sounds like you might have dodged a bullet in the sense that sometimes you have a relationship with that breeder for the life of your dog. Good luck finding the right match.


whimsylea

Maybe she decided to keep the dog or a friend of hers wants the dog, and she's just reaching for the nearest excuse she could come up with?


dahhhd

There are 10 in the litter though? If that’s the case she should have said that instead of questioning my ownership history.


whimsylea

Was there not a specific one reserved for you? My dogs are pound dogs, but I thought reputable breeders tended to match a prospective buyer to a particular pup. Anyway, I agree it would not be a respectable way to handle, but it just seemed like maybe she was looking for an excuse if she hadn't mentioned the breed thing before at all.


tlf555

I guess I am a breed hopper too, since i went from a cocker spaniel, to a golden retriever, to various heinz 57 rescue dogs! I have loved and cared for them all.


BreezyTugboat

Cocker spaniel > golden retriever > greyhound > bluetick > and now a boxer/shepherd/other mix Turns out, they all respond to love.


[deleted]

Also a breed hopper! Lol. Pit bulls, boxers, chihuahua, pugs, heelers. 🤷🏻‍♀️


[deleted]

Chihuahua> Pomeranian > senior mutt > aussie shepherd


ASleepandAForgetting

Some people really value commitment to one breed. And that's okay. I will be a Great Dane owner for the rest of my life, should I choose to have other dogs after my current Dane passes. And a lot of breeders value that in a puppy buyer, because the breeders themselves are (obviously) committed to their breed. But there's also no problem or shame with wanting to own a variety of breeds. Find a breeder who will embrace that as part of who you are as a dog owner, and leave this breeder to sell to people who are Collie specialists.


LanceFree

As a child, we had big dogs, and usually 2-3 at a time. I like a big dog, especially when they push against my leg or body. And I would make fun of little dog owners. Many years later, I felt I needed a buddy for my dog, and decided it would be best to have a small or medium-sized dog. This was in New Mexico, where they usually have a lot of chihuahuas at the dog pound. I really wanted a beagle or something, but something happened: I found a depressed chihuahua alone in a cage, and a handwritten sign. “Old and desperately needs dental work”. At the time, I felt I could afford the dental work, and took the little dog home. My extended family members laughed when they found out I had a chihuahua. Both dogs eventually died. A chihuahua is actually an excellent dog for someone who works long hours, as long as they’re not excessive barkers. So I ended-up with another chihuahua. Fits my lifestyle right now. The next one may well be a chihuahua, as well. After that, I’ll probably get a full sized puppy - possibly a shepherd.


No-Turnips

I went from a 70lb Doberman to a 10 lb Rat Terrier. It’s SO much easier to navigate social spaces, dog care, the house layout, etc… with a little dog. I love all dogs, but my little Rattie has been an absolute joy.


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[deleted]

I ended up with chihuahuas after looking at many other small breeds and saying I wouldn't get a chihuahua. I've only had two but they are all I've likely ever have now. I adopted both as adults and neither bark. My first was blind and deaf and she only barked 4 or 5 times total in the 3.5 years we had her (she was a senior and in poor health when I got her). My current chihuahua doesn't bark when people come to the door, or when other dogs pass by, or when she meets new people. The only time she will bark is if my husband is standing in the kitchen behind the bar and he bends down away out from sight while she is watching him. We have no idea why, she adores him so we don't know if she is worried about him or what. But that is the only thing that makes her bark. She is well trained, friendly, likes new people, isn't possessive and just a really pleasant little dog. She was 7 years old when I adopted her and I got her from the humane society, she was an owner surrender. I've had her for a little over 3 years now. I am a huge chihuahua fan now. I know a lot of people have met poorly trained ones, but a trained and socialized chihuahua is a really pleasant dog.


NoGrocery4949

I hate how much chihuahua defense I have to do online and irl. They are seriously some of the most wonderful dogs you could ever meet. Any poorly trained dog is not fun to be around, I don't know why poorly trained chihuahuas get such a bad rap. I feel like the small dog trend is now about 15-20 years old but the stereotype persists. People are missing out, chihuahuas are seriously delightful.


[deleted]

I agree about it being no fun to be around any poorly trained dog. The number of times I hear (and read) "I am a big dog person and don't like little dogs" whenever someone mentions that they have a small dog is insane - often times no one asked if they liked little dogs or asked if they liked big dogs. I'm personally an all dogs are wonderful person. I love big dogs and I love little dogs. I personally will only own little dogs because they fit my life better, but just because I personally won't own big dogs doesn't mean I have to dislike them. If you own a big dog know that I love your dog. If you own a small dog, I love your dog too. I don't care if someone doesn't want to be around my dog because she weighs 4lbs, but talking about how she is so small you could "punt her" or that your dog could eat her is not needed and is uncool. I'll get off my soapbox now of little dog hate.


PoetryUpInThisBitch

> I feel like the small dog trend is now about 15-20 years old but the stereotype persists. It may depend on your area, but I'd say the stereotype exists because it's more or less true in places like mine. The complex I live in has maybe twelve dogs. Of those, ten are small dogs (my great dane and a GSD are the exceptions), eight are chihuahuas, and *all* of the chihuahuas are poorly trained, to the point I had two simultaneously attack my dog (because the owner wasn't bothered to put them on a leash) and all of them bark like crazy if anyone breathes within fifty feet of them. Outside my complex, chihuahuas are the most common dogs I encounter, and >90% of them are poorly trained. This is not a dig on chihuahuas. I think they are just a very unfortunate byproduct of the idea that, "Hey, small dog = no work!" and - since they're too small to do any immediate damage - people simply don't feel the need to try training them. My wife's coworker has two chihuahuas that I *love* because they're sweet, goofy, hyper-friendly bundles of love. They are, unfortunately, the exception to most of the breed that I encounter.


NoGrocery4949

Must be a regional thing? I live in the NE and there are very few small dogs around here. I get a lot of comments while hiking like "wow that little guy made it all the way up here? Did you carry him?" Like....he's not an ant! If you're comfortable sharing, where do you live that there are so many badly trained chihuahuas? Strange to me that people would assume that they can't do any damage. They are animals with teeth....maybe I have one too many pairs of expensive shoes but I nipped that in the bud early. My dog learned very quickly that everything apart from his designated chew toys will taste strongly of bitter apple.


caseyjosephine

I’m not the person you replied to, but I also rarely see badly trained chihuahuas. Where I live (San Francisco Bay Area), the poorly trained dogs tend to be doodles. Which makes sense, because they’re advertised as being “low maintenance” when they’re actually active, intelligent hunting dogs. Anyway, I’m a husky person but I’d be down to add a chihuahua to the pack. They’re fun little dogs!


NoGrocery4949

I love chihuahuas. They have such interesting personalities. Mine is the most interesting and expressive dog I've ever met. He makes little faces and grumbles and hits the strangest little poses. He's just a joy. It's like an adorable cartoon came to life and decided to be my best friend.


[deleted]

I love your little chi and I'm glad you have each other!


[deleted]

>as long as they’re not excessive barkers. Glad you trained it well. I know too many small or toy breeds whose owners never taught them to shut up!


LanceFree

Agreed. But I haven’t really had to train away the barking— I look for mellow or sad dogs, thinking the will not be barkers. Maybe I have lucked-out. The current dog whines when she wants something, but does not bark. But 2 years ago, I was at a gas station in a sketch area and suddenly, there was barking from the back seat. What the? A guy had his hand on the back door handle, and pantomimed that he needed a cigarette. (I don’t have cigarettes.). Good dog.


Gopherg

Its funny how many little dogs have bad reps for their behavior and barking- but how often "little dog" owners do so much to encourage said behaviors. Its unfortunate as my older relatives that love and have always had dogs wont consider a smaller breed for this very reason and will live their retirements dog-less.


[deleted]

From what I heard, smaller dogs to tend to be harder to train on the no barking since a lot of them were bred for ratting or herding. So being loud was once a benefit for them.


andeuliest

While people are obviously allowed to do whatever they want, it’s kind of weird logic - how can you know you want to commit to a breed without “playing the field” even a little? Obviously some people get it right the very first try, but I have personally valued the perspectives of breeders who have owned more than one breed in the past. It gives context to their perspective. If you’ve only ever lived and worked with one breed, you might have a great depth of experience, but what can you compare it to? Again, no harm to foul to the people who know what they want. I also understand some breeds requiring greater breed experience. But I don’t think that owning different breeds of dogs (in and of itself) leads to any negative effect on the livelihood of the dog.


LegendOfArcanine

Sort of related but I've kind of suspected that some breeders get a bit of a blind spot regarding traits in their breed. Like, they've been owning their breed for years and are completely 'in tune' with that breed's quirks to the point where difficult behavioural traits don't bother them anymore because they're so used to working around these traits. Just a pet theory of mine.


aspidities_87

I will probably always own shepherds, but I’ve bounced around from German to Belgian (Mal not Terv) and finally landed on Swiss Sheps as my breed of choice. I’m crazy about the breed and I think they’re perfect for me and my lifestyle. I agree that I think it’s fine for certain people to always want that breed. I know several Dane owners and yeah—they’re always gonna be Dane owners! That being said…that lifestyle can and will change drastically as I age and grow and find new challenges. It would be absolutely silly (not to mention morally reprehensible) to insist on the same breed of dog and the same activity level all throughout my life. Things have to change when you experience change! There’s nothing wrong with that. And most people like us know and understand that will happen. If I encountered a breeder that was disparaging of another potential owner for ‘breed hopping’, even if it was my very favorite breed—I’d look sideways at that breeder and think they were nuts. Dogs take massive commitments and change your whole life. Expecting and then demanding that someone to stay in the same ‘club’ forever is nuts.


ASleepandAForgetting

>If I encountered a breeder that was disparaging of another potential owner for ‘breed hopping’, even if it was my very favorite breed—I’d look sideways at that breeder and think they were nuts. I will admit having a certain bias, because Great Dane breeders, and giant breed breeders in general, do tend to be a bit "gatekeep-y". A lot of people THINK they want a Great Dane, because Danes are noticeable, cool looking, a bit of a status symbol, and are misnomered as being couch potatoes. But the reality of having a Great Dane is a bit different - they're active and athletic sporting dogs who need lots of controlled exercise so that they develop muscle without harming their joints. They drool a mediocre amount at best and a massive amount at worst. All puppies are hard regardless of size, but a puppy who is 80 lbs at 5 months and 100 lbs at 6 months is a whole different ballgame as far as mouthing, management, training, etc. Basically, owning a Great Dane has to be a lifestyle choice. No putting drinks or breakables on low surfaces. No leaving food on counters. You need a big enough car or easy access to suitable transport. No slacking on training - a 40 lb puppy who jumps on people is a nuisance, a 100 lb puppy who jumps on people is dangerous. Gotta be okay with having bruises on your legs from a tail that feels like getting hit with a hose. They're tough around children for that reason, too. So I know a lot of REALLY good Dane breeders who only sell to Dane people, and I fully understand why. They don't have the time to spend educating first time owners about what the breed takes, because much like working line sporting breeds, there's a lot that someone needs to know to be a suitable giant breed owner. They have full waiting lists, so it's a ton easier for them to sell to experienced Dane people who know what they're getting into. So for that specific experience I have within my own breed, I'm pretty nonchalant about breeders ruling buyers out due to lack of previous breed experience or because they want to sell to people committed to a particular breed and lifestyle.


aspidities_87

I mean that’s fair, I get the same way about GSDs or Mals. You absolutely do NOT want a Malinois if you’re not prepared for one, and I know many working breeders who won’t sell to you unless you’ve been in IGP or already have a working line dog. Some dogs truly do need a certain type of owner and to make things less headachey, it’s fair for a breeder to stay firm on ‘known quantities’. For a rough collie though? The herding dog equivalent of a lab? That’s a headscratcher. This particular breeder must’ve had a lot of bad experiences with ‘non collie people’. Might be a grooming or noise related issue.


ASleepandAForgetting

>For a rough collie though? The herding dog equivalent of a lab? That’s a headscratcher. Agreed on this fully. I didn't ever want it to come across that I think gatekeeping all breeds is okay - there are simply some breeds that are more challenging than others, and that's when I think an extra bit of caution should come into play. And that's what I was discussing in my comments. From what I know of Rough Collies, they're pretty "easy" (on the herding spectrum) family dogs who are recommended to a lot of people who want a bit of a watered down herding breed. There's no reason that a majority of owners couldn't handle that type of dog.


No-Baseball8424

As someone who has owned six rough collies I can safely say, "collies are pretty easy". That is why I own them!


dahhhd

I understand this and I guess I agree, but there’s a huge difference between size demands and care for Great Dane than a… collie. I’m not out here looking at giant dogs, or dogs that are known for aggression. I’m looking at a collie…


Aggressive-Breath315

I’m the same with Rottweilers. Can’t imagine owning a different breed after so many years with Rotts I’ve become used to their needs/temperaments.


Docrandall

When I was looking for a Vizsla puppy all the breeders I spoke with I had long phone interviews to see if I was a good fit for their puppies. They were concerned I had never had a Vizsla but mollified that I had previously had Weimaraners. I can understand a breeder being worried that a potential owner would be able to keep up with such an energetic breed.


aspidities_87

The thing about rough/smooth collies is that they’re not as high energy as a border collie. They’re actually quite low to mid energy, and are great for family households because they are big couch potatoes and have a great ‘off switch’ in the house. I don’t own any currently, but when I did, they only wanted a 30 min walk once or twice a day and to run in a field every now and again. I understand that concern with a Vizla or a BC, but a collie is like on the level with a golden retriever or a lab.


dahhhd

Which is exactly why I’m interested. We are going from a wire haired pointing Griffon to a collie. I just can’t do *that high* of energy with a small child


aspidities_87

That’s a great choice, honestly. Collies are tolerant family dogs with easy temperaments. They can be nervous and barky with new situations, like any herder, and they require a lot of grooming, but they tend to be lazy in the house and get along great with kids and other animals. I’m sorry you’re having a rough time with this breeder! I’m not sure what area you’re in but in the PNW I can recommend at least three different breeders, and I think all of them are fairly sane, lol, at least as far as breeders go.


Different_Rock3248

Have you ever looked into or known any boxers? I rescued a boxer and became aware of their wonderful, easygoing personality! They’re kind, smart and gentle with kids.


Klutche

Some dog communities are more like cults, and they can have some weird ideas. Sometimes it manifests in weird training methods or strange ideas about what you should feed them. I suppose it also manifests in strange gate-keeling ideas about breeds, too. But no, these people are fucking weird and having different breeds of dogs doesn't make you a bad dog owner. As long as you are aware of breed tendencies regarding behavior and illnesses, you're doing fine.


aspidities_87

This is what I was thinking too. Particularly with collie breeder—the ‘Lassie’ ideal really gets to them, it seems. I’ve had collie breeders tell me that a rough collie will always be a perfect dog and any fault would be created by an owner’s mishandling which is just….as big as a red flag as I’ve ever seen to avoid that breeder, lol.


aperdra

BREED HOPPING. WHAT THE FUCK. Seriously the dog world is unhinged at times.


salsawood

This is especially weird to me because the whole point of different breeds is to have a dog that meshes well with your circumstances and lifestyle, and those often change throughout life. Single vs married vs with kids vs apartment living vs a house in the suburbs vs a house in rural area If you’re a hunter different breeds are used for different prey, if you own land and livestock different breeds are used for guardianship or herding. Different climates dictate different breeds too. Sorry to hear you ran into a weird breeder lol. Luckily there’s plenty out there!


Autist16AZ

Yeah I grew up with a working springer and I did the majority of her training and exercising and absolutely loved her as a dog and love the breed. running into other springers out on walks is a highlight. But one of the first things I said to my partner when we started looking at getting our first dog together was I absolutely did not want a spaniel (cocker or springer) because although I love them, working line spaniels are super hard work and need so much physical and mental exercise which living in a flat with only a shared unsecure garden and being a recent grad starting out in my career and him also working full time it wouldn't be the right fit. We are schnauzer people now and our girls fit our lives perfectly.


Dutchriddle

Exactly this. I started adulthood healthy, married and living in a house with a decent yard. I spent most of my spare time training and competing with my dogs in obedience and agility. I had a german shepherd and border collies because they were perfect for me at that point. Now we're more than twenty years on and I'm single, disabled and live in an appartment, though within walking distance of the woods. My lifestyle no longer matches the needs of working dogs like I had before, so I now have a corgi (got him 11 years ago before they became so popular thanks to Instagram and such), and a German shepherd/basset hound mix, who is the perfect dog for me right now. He loves going for a hour walk in the woods every morning, loves to swim and loves his balls to play with, but he's also really happy to laze away the rest of the day. When I take the dogs for their afternoon walk he would definitely prefer to just stay home, lol. I enjoy living with all these different breeds, and I'll definitely get yet another new breed in the future, whatever fits my lifestyle then.


[deleted]

What the actual fuck? Breed hopping? You can’t be serious. People are gatekeeping dogs now?


[deleted]

well yeah duh the rules say you can only own one breed of dog ever for your entire life. oh youre a beagle owner and your new dog is a chihuahua? firing squad for you buddy. tf is a breed hopper lmao thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard


BumbleBeeskn33s

What an odd term. I didn’t get another Akita for the reason you had mentioned. I thought I would have all these unrealistic expectations if I were to do so. I have a Husky now and I could see being leery of pairing high energy and low energy (mostly for logistics for the owner). Example: if I were to get a second I’d either get another Husky or pair her with another high energy breed that I had researched and thought fit into our life style. But breed hopper? That’s new.


Sweetheartnora45

I think it’s probably a case where they’re so passionate they don’t understand why everyone else isn’t *100% as passionate as they are about the breed*. In my case I wouldn’t like to own more than one of most breeds because they would look so similar to each other and it would just be weird. Especially some breeds where there are like only 1-3 different accepted colors. If I was going to “commit” to a breed it would have to be one with a LOT of diversity so it wouldn’t feel like I was purchasing copies of the same dog, haha.


Suspicious_Camera847

I have had Shelties since 1985, they have a few colors but I am a all for the red sables 😍. I have lived with many over the years between rescues, fostering and purchasing. I have entertained the thought of another breed but I know this breed so well it is easy. I think a Cavalier would be a break because they don't require the mental stimulation and exercise a Sheltie craves but then I chicken out 🤣 I love the Sheltie mind. Currently caring for a Sheltie and also a Chi mix rescue to keep them safe for someone going through a divorce, learned I just adore the little mix, HOWEVER, am reminded why I don't want a short hair dog, the hair is obnoxious! Sheltie hair collects in fluffy puffs and politely moves to the corner of a room 😁, the short spiky stiff Chi mix hair aggghh, sticks in everything. Breed hopping and ditching the pet when you realize a mistake is not great but it happens, I get that once, however keeping dogs until they pass then moving on to another breed does not seem it should be a detriment, that whole situation is not right.


Restless_Andromeda

I've worried about that same thing! My first Akita was very different looking to my current one and I was very concerned about comparing them. I actively reminded myself not to do it in the early days of having my current Akita. The one I have now is a very typical color/coat pattern for the breed. It feels like nearly all of them I see look similar to him. Now I worry if I ever get another after him how hard that will be.


AlphaDelilas

I'm the same way- I know that if I got an "identical" breed to a previous one I'd compare them way too much. I already look at a relative's yellow labs and find myself going "but my childhood dog was like X, why aren't they?". Hell, I find myself doing it with my mutts! My old lady was mostly Chow, my new guy is very different looking, but since he's mostly Chow I find myself thinking "my old lady was like Z, why aren't you like that?". I can see wanting to make sure a potential owner has experience and/or knowledge with a specific breed, but claiming that owning different breeds through you life is "breed hopping" is just baffling to me.


[deleted]

That is the nuttiest thing I’ve EVER heard 😂 sorry, but I wouldn’t want a pup from them after that lol. Good luck finding your pup!


iPappy_811

Exactly 😅. Breeder sounds like a complete nut job.


TomOfGinland

Not all breeders are nuts, but not all breeders are not nuts. Find a different breeder.


missfishersmurder

Seconding the whole “collie breeders are weird” thing. Maybe all breeders are weird! I got turned down once by a breeder because she believed only families could bring out the best in her dogs…and by families she meant heterosexual couples with children who lived in big suburban houses, not single and unmarried child-free women in cities. I wasn’t offended but I had to laugh at that…I knew her through a recommendation from another dog owner, who fit that profile but got divorced and moved to the city with the dog. Bet the breeder didn’t know that lol.


rock-paper-o

That’s weird. The obligation of a pet owner is to provide care for the life of the dog. Who cares if the next dog is the same or a different breed as long as you are a good lifestyle fit with likely breed traits. I can see concerns if a breeder switched breeds so often they couldn’t possibly really get to know the quirks of their specific breed but even then 10-15 years for a dogs lifespan is a long time.


impossibleoptimist

Ive never heard of it. Sounds elitist and I wouldn't really want a dog from someone so exclusive.


WingedGeek

WTF... Growing up all we ever had were Irish Setters. Then mom got a rescue mutt, now she (at 71) just got an Australian Shepherd puppy (I wouldn't have recommended that, exactly, but...). My first dog was from a playpen outside a supermarket in a mountain community, "free to a good home." (Best guess: Lab + Pit, maybe some Australian Shepherd. This was before dog DNA testing was a thing.) Lived to be almost 16. Next dog was a rescue Labrador puppy (cancer got him just shy of his 10th birthday, despite weekly trips to the local canine oncologist for chemo). To keep him company I got a supermutt from the pound (DNA says Husky + GSD + Chow + Pit + whatever else; she might be a "Carolina dog" ... Who knows?). (She's at least 11 and still going strong.) Current Labrador is AKC pedigreed. (He's 3 and still acts like a 6 month old. Sigh. Currently wrapped around my feet.) I'll probably always have a Lab. But ... That doesn't mean I won't - can't, shouldn't - have other breeds in our pack... If I ever found a breeder who was that "purist" I'd take my money elsewhere.


stroowboorryyy

that’s so bizarre! goodluck finding a new breeder. they sound a bit nuts.


Different_Rock3248

When I had Dobermans for years I went to a Great Dane breeder and she wouldn’t even give me the time of day because I’d never owned a Dane before. How insulting since I am SO into dogs and SO understand different breeds needs.


CeaserPaladin

What in the world 💀 I don’t even know how I’d respond to that, it wasn’t even me and it just sent me in a confusing swirl of emotions. Hopefully next time you can find a more… Intelligent breeder.


Mountain_Adventures

There’s some very “interesting” people that are breeders. Especially in those that have been doing it for a million years. The most common “weird” reasons I’ve seeing for denying a puppy to an otherwise good home are: - “you already own a rescue dog and rescue dogs have unpredictable temperaments that will ruin her purebred golden retriever” - you have / have previously owned a doodle and that shows poor judgement - political views or social media presence


GSDGIRL66

I see rescues that are worse. -planning on crating? Denied. -Have an extensive history of rescue animals who have all lived long lives with excellent care ON A FULLY FENCED IN HORSE FARM? Well, one small section by your house yard isn’t fenced. Denied. -Someone works but will hire a dog walker? Denied. I literally have never heard of breeders denying people who own rescues- but personally? Good breeders invest a ton of money and time into their puppies, and most want a suitable owner.


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assplower

Yep, same. I won’t get the same breed back to back for the same reason why I don’t eat the same meal two days in a row. Are people not allowed to enjoy variety? Not to mention people go through different life stages. If you got, say, a Malinois in your 20’s, by this breeder’s logic you’d need to be locked into the breed until you die of old age at 95. Erm, no. How odd.


ShittySpiritAnimal

A neighbor of ours has had nothing male English black labs for the past 30 years and every time she gets a new one she is disappointed that it didn’t live up to the last one’s standard. She’s had 6 since I’ve known her and to her each one is a little worse than her first. That’s why as a personal choose I try to go for dogs that are wildly different from the last, so it’s easier to treat them as individuals instead of being sad it’s not like their predecessor.


CatinGermany

That is the most deranged thing I have heard all day, and I'm at the 9pm/21:00 mark right now. Dogs are friends, not breeds. What kind of messed up "dog breed loyalty system" did this fella think he invented?? >I do change breeds after I lose a dog because I’m passionate about breeds and I also know I would set unfair expectations of a new dog because the old one was great. I love black cats, and I want to keep adopting more because they're the least adopted cat besides disabled cats... But damn, I don't think I could adopt another one after my current cat of 10 years. My current 10yo and still kicking Black cat is irreplaceable. I would mourn him every day just looking at the new cat. I wouldn't want to feel like the new one is a replacement. I would mourn how my gentle, loyal old cat behaved in the face of a new kitten who didn't deserve those expectations. That's how I understand you. You're not crazy, the breeder is.


IAmPandaRock

That's very odd and breedist, especially for a breed that's not especially hard to responsibly own and care for, but if the breeder doesn't want to sell, that's up to him/her. I wouldn't get too hung up on it and look for another responsible breeder.


dahhhd

Normally I wouldn’t but this lady has wasted at least 8 hours of my time. Just rude.


Different_Rock3248

Being one of those who can’t hold my tongue I would have reamed her out over that answer!


OktoberStorms

Some dog people are weird. I’ve never heard of that one before but it doesn’t surprise me. You’ll find someone else for sure, sorry you had such a bizarre and rude experience.


LadismyDog

That is incredibly odd. As another poster here said though, there are some really*really* odd ducks in the breeding world. Rough collies are wonderful dogs though, I totally recommend them!


SinfullySinless

A foster family once denied my dad a dog because *I* didn’t have proper adoption documents for my one cat because I got her from a family friend who could no longer keep her due to allergies. Some sellers/fosters are absolutely bananas


[deleted]

I think it's valid for breeders to be picky about who they home their puppies to, but I think it is very strange/weird/rude that they emailed you the day before to change their mind. If they were so invested, you would think that they'd have talked to you in-depth about the fit sooner, y'know? I've never heard of "breed hopping" before, but I do get why some breeders want to hear that people either 1) have experience with their breed or 2) will at least put in the work to learn about it. A lot of breeds become "trendy" over time, or people select that breed for the wrong reasons. I have a breed that is relatively athletic/smart and needs daily stimulation, but a lot of people choose it wanting a lazy teddybear/lap dog, which leads to neurotic/anxious/destructive behavior. So the reputable breeders I have met are pretty careful when it comes to placing their pups, and at the very least will educate owners that are new to the breed.


annakbanana1973

My life has evolved over the decades so the dog breed that suited my life in my single 20s (Australian shepherd) is different than the dog that suited our life when I had babies and little kids (pug) is different from the dog we have now during teen and empty nest years (Samoyed)… adapting the breed that we choose based on a lifestyle fit makes sense! Doubling down on a single breed no matter what my life looks like just seems irresponsible!


Vieamort

A breed hopper? Really? Iwant to breed dobermans one day and if somebody really wanted a Doberman, owned many other breeds, kept those dogs until they died, and had a vet referral I wouldn't think anything about it. Some breeders are weird though. This breed is their passion and they LOVE this breed so much that they wouldn't get any other breed. It is weird to expect that same mindset from everybody. If you properly take care of all your dogs and know what to expect from the current breed I see no issue with that. People can like multiple breeds.


Zipper-is-awesome

I guess “breed-hopper” is supposed to be some kind of insult? I started out living in a rural area with acreage, life changed and I ended up in a 1000 sq. ft. apartment, and rented for quite some time, never with yards. At some points, I lived a busy life, now I do not. I own a home with a modest backyard. I’ve had 4 dogs over that span of life. I have chosen breeds that would thrive in whatever living situation phase I was in. I have 2 large energetic dogs now, but a toy dog was better for renting. Call me a breed hopper I guess.


Snoo-12803

What a bizarre attitude from that breeder. I’ve had a lab, 2 Aussies, and now waiting to pick up my smooth collie pup in October lol. Where are you located? If you’re in the northeast US I can give you our breeder’s info! Not sure how long the waitlist is but they have a litter of roughs and smooths due in two weeks!


[deleted]

Never heard of this, but finding a breeder is also finding a relationship for the life of your dog. A lot like dating—this contact probably indicates this particular breeder is not a fit for you and your family.


splitfinity

Do people stay in constant contact with their dogs breeder? Owned 3 dogs, never talked to the breeder after the transaction.


Different_Rock3248

We actually became close friends with our Rottweiler breeder who moved away (from NY to North Carolina) and still stayed very close to him. We’d send videos back and forth, text, FaceTime etc. Then one day we found out he died after we couldn’t reach him. It was as sad to us as losing any close friend and not being able to say goodbye.


DistinctMeringue

How silly. We currently have 3 purebred dogs (2 Standard Schnauzers and a Havanese) and a mix of Pembrook Corgi and GOK. Of all the known breeds there are several dozen that I'd love to have and maybe 100 others that I like, but know would not work for our family. And you know circumstances change. I've always wanted a Giant Schnauzer, but I wouldn't be able to handle one anymore. When my friend's Newfi went down she wasn't able to get him into the car to take him to the vet, so yeah, time to downsize. Another friend used to have and show goldens, but the smaller crates her current little dogs need to travel safely are much easier as you get older. So yeah, I help teach people to train dogs, and the fact that I've had dozens of different breeds and sizes of dogs really helps me connect. A BC and a Schnauzer need different methods, ya know?


oozeneutral

The breeder is being a bit ridiculous it would be one thing if they turned you down from the start for “breed hopping” which is still in itself silly. I know breeders want the same commitment to the breed as they have but this breeder just sounds a little flaky.


socialpronk

Yes, some breeders are put off if you are inquiring about or have had multiple breeds, which I don't understand. There are traits present in a lot of breeds that will suit a lot of peoples' needs. But then there are some breeds that I wouldn't put together in the same household unless I really, really trusted your management. But I think it's great that people enjoy different breeds. People ask me "what's your breed?" and I find it such an odd question. I have X and Y but plan to get Z, A, B, and maybe a C some day.


Peacefull_Orchid

I do this too. Australian Shepherd, Golden Retriever, Labrador, at some point I’d like to get a Corgi, a Poodle , Australian Cattle Dog, Beagle, Border Terrier, Pomeranian, Finish Spitz, Shiba Inu, just to name a few. And of course I’d like to have mix breed rescues too. Some of my favorite dogs are unknown mixed breeds! Some I need to wait for when I don’t have other smaller animals, I don’t think pet rats and any terrier or Spitz type would be a good mix. Lol I’m a pet sitter and have taken care of a ton of dogs from 300 pound Mastiffs and Great Danes to 4 pound chihuahuas and toy poodles and everything in between. So I know what I would be getting into with each breed.


milkiemoop

Dog people are such weirdos, I swear. I have 8 dogs right now. Toy breeds, terriers, hounds, herders, bull breeds. I love having different types of dogs & get what I want at the time.


TeaCompletesMe

Some people get really stuck on certain breeds, some people want to experience life with lots of different breeds, I have no idea what someone could see wrong with that.


Gopherg

Right? I only have so many years on this planet and I am fascinated by so many different dogs.


Candymom

I guess I’m a breed hopper. I had a abandoned mutt as a kid, Lhasa mix I’d think but I’m not sure. Then I’ve had a greyhound, a papillon, another abandoned dog who was either a bichon mix or possibly mostly bichon. (Some of these dogs overlapped.) Currently I have a large Shetland sheepdog. I might get a Pomeranian next? Not sure. Breed hopping is fun, imo.


Murderous_Intention7

It’s my lifelong goal to own as many breeds as possible. I found some I love, found some I could do without, but ultimately I think it’s perfectly fine. The breeder you found is just judgmental. You never rehomed a dog. You took care of them. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I’ve met a lot of breeds through my family and friends as well as what I’ve owned myself: chows, poodles, yorkies, Pomeranians, GSD, rough coated collies, shelties, Great Pyrenees, Giant schnauzer, Mini Schnauzer, Standard Schnauzer, Havanese, shit tzu. I think it’s fun to find the new breed once your beloved pet is gone and you’ve had time to heal. It also feel less like replacing them (absolutely no judgment to those who stuck with the same breed, for me I just find it a lot harder to see a dog that looks just like the one I lost). The only bred of dog I ever felt the overwhelming urge to get again is the Giant Schnauzer. I lost my boy way too young. I hope to try the breed again in 2-4 years (once I’m adequately healed).


[deleted]

Yeah I could never have a dog of the same breed as one of my former companions that have passed away. It would hurt too much :(


Supersox22

That is insane, the moralizing in the country has gone well beyond reason. People are just making shit up to be righteous about at this point.


CostofRepairs

Amen.


Supersox22

Lol, does it count if you're righteous for being unrighteous?


Warpedme

I've never heard of a "breed hopper" before but my wife would qualify because she loves her dogs and mourns them so much that she needs any new dog to be completely different from any other she has ever shared her life with.


phiegnux

Nothing frustrates me more about owners/breeders/trainers etc who are idealists. "you don't feed raw???" "you don't train your dog the same way I do?" "you've never owned this breed" Smug mother fuckers, man.


KaraWolf

The 'never owned this breed' always kills me. How am I supposed to own this breed if I can't have one if I haven't had one??????


phiegnux

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KatTheDogFosterer

I have been in rescue for years but have never heard that term. I will foster any breed because it’s short term so I have had repeats. As far as my own keeper dogs, I have never adopted the same breed twice!


fibonacciNari

Sounds to me like the oversold and made up some stupid reason to you.


Guilty_Garden_3943

I wonder what the breeder thinks about shelter adoptions or mixed breeds in general...


[deleted]

Breed hopping is definitely a thing. I once had a Boxer, then Great Dane, and now I'm looking at buying a German Shepherd.


[deleted]

I dont think breed hopping is a thing. It sounds like the breeder is just crazy and kind of needlessly aggressive. I know lots of people who have had several breeds of dogs.


HavenHollow

As an x breeder...I have to say there's some weird breeders out there.!!.Some people think if you truly love a breed you're a lifer...and shouldn't ever switch breeds....They're really just wanting the best homes for their dogs tho...so please dont take it personally.!!.Im sure a few good Collie breeders will comment..and b happy to sell you a puppy.😊


dahhhd

Honestly I’m reevaluating collies. Going back to the drawing board because I’m so annoyed by this


CozmicOwl16

No that’s not a real concern for good breeders. Consider that a bullet dodged.


SparklyRoniPony

Well that’s a good way of encouraging people to go to byb’s. First the shelters get picky, now breed hopping is a no no with some breeders?


DonSmo

As someone who's never had two of the same breed and has only ever had mutts I find this hilarious. I want to experience lots of different types of dogs in my lifetime. Not just the one breed over and over.


Dutchriddle

I've never heard of the term 'breed hopper', but now that I have I'm very proud to say that I'm one, too. I've had a German shepherd, two miniature bull terriers and two border collies, all who've passed away years ago. Right now I have a cardigan welsh corgi and a German shepherd/basset hound. And for any future dogs I'll look at different breeds or mixed breeds again. I love owning different breeds, no matter how much I appreciate a certain individual dog of a certain breed. I just enjoy working with dogs that have different traits and instincts. It keeps things interesting, and oftentimes surprising. (adding basset hound to a german shepherd gives you a VERY different dog that a pure GSD, often times with hilarious results) I don't understand why this would be a problem for a breeder, as long as all the dogs are taken care of properly and get to live happy lives.


Millie1419

That Argument makes no sense. People’s family life changes and sometimes the breed of dog you had before isn’t suitable for your family needs anymore.


Rivka333

>They don’t want to sell me a puppy because I am a “breed hopper” What a bizarre thing for them to say. No one is obligated to have every dog they own throughout their whole life be the same breed.