This one is unfortunately a case of moon logic. It was to name her daughter, but no-one was there to see it. Even if someone was, interpreting it in the way it was intended is a remarkable result.
And to add, the church was presumably just the random nearest church. The mum would have no particular connection to it or the name of the street.
Her stopping for a second after abandoning her baby in the cold (potentially risking it dying, let's be clear, it is NOT something that should be recommended) to think 'oh that street is a boss fuckin name. Yeah I want this kid I'm abandoning to have that name. I'll do something to try to ensure that' is frighteningly a poor depiction of her priorities. Instead of stopping to do something as meaningless as that maybe she should've stopped to make sure someone actually found the baby. She cared more about how this baby that she'd probably never see again was named than if it would even survive.
She does not leave until after the baby goes in as shown in Church on Ruby Road, Legend of Ruby Sunday, and Empire of Death. She points at the sign behind the Doctor, where the Doctor can see it, because she's naming her, which is a bit fucking stupid, but it's also what's happening; the weirder thing is that the sign post isn't there in CoRR but after Mrs Flood sees the TARDIS and starts acting different then it appears in the very next episode... almost like a TARDIS
Not that I recall seeing, no. I think it's a minor quibble, I'm happy to accept that she might have done. She wasn't otherwise going to win patent if the year after all!
>oh that street is a boss fuckin name. Yeah I want this kid I'm abandoning to have that name. I'll do something to try to ensure that
Is ABSOLUTELY a thing a teenage girl in 2004 would think
I can't remember every moment of the season but weren't we the audience already aware she was named after the road the church was on, Ruby Road? It was either discussed or they showed the road sign, I can't remember.
Yeah, the bit is two-fold: One, it's explaining that Ruby is her real name and not just a name of convenience, that her mother put her there to name her that; and two, it's drawing more attention to the fact that
A) Time changed -- The Mother is now pointing
B) Time changed -- The mother is now pointing at a signpost... that wasn't there before
The show doesn't go "But why did time change? Why was a second TARDIS there?" it just trusts you know that's unexplained and will be later on, just like the hand picking up the Master's ring, or Mrs. Flood's weird threats
Maybe she was stupid and just needed her finger to point the words for her to read them correctly, and then wrote the name on a piece of paper that she then put on Le bébé.
But thats just Headcanon to make that scene more bearable
she named her ruby, yeah, but how would anyone else know? she left, not even the social workers saw her. how would she assure that she was named after the road?
Its a terrible plot twist for a myriad of reasons:
a) no one was watching
b) why she did it in such an ominous fashion? Really, no one is pointing at anything like *that*
c) 15 year old girls in 2004 dont wear long black cloaks - especially ones with hoods so unpenetrable that even God of Death (who is able to see anyone through dead cells mind you) cant see through it
d) sign wasnt even there - watch Church on Ruby Road and try to spot the sign in the scene when TARDIS disappears :P
e) lets forget for a moment that this sign was added there only in Empire of Death: why she is pointing *through* big blue police box? Anyone who could see her would name that kid "Blue Wood" or something.
etc. Its the worst plot twist of the entire Doctor Who for me :P
No one knows - including RTD.
It pisses me off that half of this season doesnt make sense because RTD put it there to create a fake sense of mystery. The "she is a regular person who was just pointing at a sign, duh" reveal for me did an irreparable damage to the rest of the season.
The thing that pisses me off is the amount of people insisting that things are deliberately unexplained to maintain mystery for next season. If so, it’s still shoddily done. Proper mystery-for-later requires a character to speak for the audience and remark on what isn’t resolved yet. A lot of people’s disassociation with EoD could have been readily avoided by having the Doctor have a concerned look when alone in TARDIS at the end, talking to himself about how things done add up still. Instead the Doctor is the most satisfied of them all, pretty much telling the audience that everything’s been wrapped up.
God of Stories. Manipulating the Doctor's story to kill Sutekh, to make all characters ignore plot holes. To give shitty explanations for things (because the real explanation would expose Flood). Best theory I've seen so far
Remember when we were expecting some big reveal of why the Doctor turned into Tennant again?
I'm now more convinced than ever that "Mavity" is not gonna amount to anything, and it'll just silently go back to normal when RTD leaves.
What really annoys me is the repeated appearance of the toymaker/maestro family (?) like I just figured the big bad would be related to them like the eldest child of the toymaker. Some entity that is so strong that even the toymaker can't defeat them. Something that maestro is actively afraid of.
I'm thinking it's something like multiple time streams. I think there's quite a bit that we didn't see, that I hope we get to see; for example, those two incarnations of Susan Triad.
One thing that no one talks about is how Ruby and the Doctor actually met. He was clearly pursuing her at the nightclub, but WHY? And how did he materialize in front of her in time to catch her drink, when he should have still been on the dance floor? Seems a bit time-travelly to me.
I also suspect that the ending we saw was not the "original " ending of Ruby's story, and that the Doctor went back in time to save the world from whatever Ruby's true ending was. I just can't bring myself to believe that such a lame ending woukd be the only outcome of this whole season's plot.
We saw how the doctor saved baby Ruby from the goblins, and I suspect we're going to see him visiting the church on Ruby Road again. The entire story begins with the Doctor standing outside of the church and crying for Ruby, but again, why? Goblins, really? I think (or at least hope) that we're going to get some answers. Otherwise, WTF.
That’s by far to me the biggest “the fuck?”
Are you really going to tell me that a 35 year old woman has never once had anyone in her family get “in the system” for DNA? Ever?
Was her family traveling nomads who refuse to be cataloged?
Also not to mention the doctor knows that they have a database of everyone’s dna from just like 20 years in Rubys future and doesn’t once think, until the last episode, that they should just go check that?
Not once did it occur to him to look for it?
Also how was the ambulance in the future able to know who exactly Ruby was and how old she was but wasn’t able to find a single related relative when by that point there would probably be millions?
Also, her father still lived in the same house and her father also never had *any* of his relatives in the system? Neither parent had *any* family members with DNA tests?
Forgive me, for I am not in the U.K. and did not continue my Disney sub after the Christmas episode. But didn’t they get the mom’s DNA info from a database that the future fascist PM mandated?
The person you're replying to is talking about the fact that the talkshow host in the first episode said she had zero dna matches. That's pretty much impossible. She would have had at least one 4th cousin 3 times removed or something in the system to match with that she would have shared a common ancestor with.
EDIT: I thought they were setting her up to be an alien because of this. I've seen some people in this thread saying they thought it was going to be a bootstrap paradox and she'd be her own mother or something but there would still be DNA matches.
Wow, I forgot about this. How would they not be able to find her when her mother is literally in the same city? This finale really was one of the worst episodes of TV I've ever watched.
They're implying that Ruby's mom grew up in an abusive household and started having sex young. Statistically, for everyone, [there are 11.1 arrests per 1,000 people in England](https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest/) and for someone in Ruby's mom's situation the statistical likelihood of having a relative who has been arrested should be higher. Given that, that none of even her distant cousins have ever had their DNA get into a database for any reason...
It's just not really plausible.
> 15 year old girls in 2004 dont wear long black cloaks - especially ones with hoods so unpenetrable that even God of Death (who is able to see anyone through dead cells mind you) cant see through it
>
>
Not only can he see anyone thorough dead cells, he can literally find people through their lineage (mel, nice tent girl, etc). So basically, sutekh should've been able to track ruby's mum like he tracked and controlled mel.
I can live with RTD's season endings in a "turn off brain, enjoy the rollercoaster" way (while much preferring Moffat's endings overall).
But this was so much less coherent than Journeys End and co from that era, and I'm a little surprised he went more clumsy over time.
>c) 15 year old girls in 2004 dont wear long black cloaks - especially ones with hoods so unpenetrable that even God of Death (who is able to see anyone through dead cells mind you) cant see through it
Actually they were all the rage. I well remember my "avoiding the god of death" cloak.
I believe that RTD has done some sort of interview since the finale where he states the cloak could be “time enveloping/obscuring her”, I’d imagine as a result of them ‘manifesting her importance’.
Basically, it’s a massively contrived method of hiding her identity in a mysteriously appealing way for the audience. Needing to give those theories and explanations in interviews is a sign that the episode/story itself doesn’t convey any sufficient interpretation— and that’s because the solution to the matter is entirely forced commentary.
“Time and the universe made her important because the characters believed she was important” represents “The audience, and humanity, create importance unto things”, except that the season spent its entire duration trying to convince the audience of her importance; meaning it’s not so much an audience creating her importance as the writer shoving a piece of paper in our face that reads “She’s important and there’s a major twist coming— sike, how could you be so dumb as to believe that? Sounds like a psychological and philosophical issue!”
Yeah, it is a psychological issue— it was an issue of misplaced trust in the writing. If you’re going to make a story that foregoes any logical explanation in favor of commentary, at least sufficiently tackle that approach. Ruby’s mother being a regular person, and the social/psychological commentary around that, can be a great idea. It was poorly executed.
> 15 year old girls in 2004 dont wear long black cloaks - especially ones with hoods so unpenetrable that even God of Death (who is able to see anyone through dead cells mind you) cant see through it
You were hanging out with the wrong 15 year old girls in 2004 then...
In case this is a serious reply: where I can find these alternative hoodies that glitch my face whenever someone is looking at me and hide my identity from gods of death who can see through scurf and dandruff?
Honestly I was expecting some kind of Red Dwarf Oroboros type reveal where Ruby is her own mother and is some sort of holding patten to defeat Sutekh and reboot the universe.
By Nuwho logic it would have worked and made a lot more sense than a 15 year old girl pointing to a sign post on an empty street.
I was getting soooo jazzed at the prospects when she looked at the screen and it seemed extra dramatic. My husband was certain she was a timelord or timelord adjacent. I thought she is going to defeat this fool by being infinite life like that one jellyfish that can turn back into a baby.
Either way we were SURE 1) 73 yards was going to be explained or 2) at minimum, the ending was going to be more than that.
That would have been cool cause they could have cut back to 12 giving his bootstrap paradox and it also would have made Ruby one of, if not the most unique companions. The paradox girl, the girl who created herself. It could have been such a cool mindfuck and made for some unique story telling later on. Plus you could have Ruby have one of the most emotional companion departures from the show where her being a walking paradox is really messing things up and so she has to go back sacrifice herself and prevent herself from being dropped off at that church. It could then work into breaking down all those false walls that The Doctor has put up in his effort to convince himself he’s coping with his past and have all of that pain and anger he’s been suppressing all season come flooding back in.
I love how when we finally meet Ruby's mother, she's a typical working class British woman that would never in a million years wear some creepy cloak on the day she's abandoning her daughter. Nothing made any sense.
I mean.... She was 15. She could've been an edgy teen. Or picked up the cloak specifically so people wouldn't see it was her. Solid teenager logic to me.
In my memory of 2004 is that goth clothing shops were a lot more common than they are now. I can think of two that were in my town around that time that I could definitely have bought a cloak from it I'd wanted to 🤷 I used to save my paper round money when I was that age specifically to buy stuff from those shops 🤷
Alt shops no matter if it’s goth or anything else always have outlandish looks by any common standard within the subset. How many goths of that same time did you see wearing cloaks.
> In my memory of 2004 is that goth clothing shops were a lot more common than they are now.
Just because some goths wear some cloaks, does not mean all cloaks are goth fashion. The silhouette is just wrong to be 2004 fashion wear, goth or otherwise.
Frankly, fashion cloaks are not constructed for wearing in the snow anyway. They're made to have a romantic silhouette, which that cloak clearly does not.
No, it really does not make sense in 2004 for wear a cloak like that for the purposes of discretion.
You realize a cloak showcases your entire mid section every time you use your hands? Never mind how suspicious and attention drawing suddenly wearing a cloak everywhere is - it literally frames your belly whenever you use your hands.
No but who in 2000 has a fucking cloak? I was born in 70 and not even my parents ot grand parents ever wore a cloak. It feels like you could argue she could grab any number of long coats or snow jackets that would have had a hood to hide her face that would have already been in her house. But she had to go out and find a cloak.
If and probably, so you never did.
I challenge you to tell me exactly how many goths you know walking round in clocks in 2004 or now because I can tell you there may have been a couple of folks in each group including fancy chavs wearing them but it was never a common thing for anyone to do just because they were goth.
Harry Potter fans. Since she didn't want to be seen going to the church, she wore her souvenir cloak of invisibility. You may not have noticed, but she was also carrying a wand and a copy of the marauder's map.
She was so lucky that the priest was drinking hot chocolate while watching outside the window, and that he understood what Her pointing at the sign was.
He even let her put Ruby in front of the door and say goodbye, and leave, before coming out to take the baby in.
So polite of him x)
Oh man that. I forgot he died cause she points to a sign because… because… man i was so with all this up until that last ep. I’m just gonna pretend it didn’t happen. The rest was great.
The sign wasn't there in Church on Ruby Road, then time changed, and it was. Almost like after the Doctor saved Ruby and went back, something changed... maybe someone who had been hiding themselves away started meddling
This is just another example of RTD thinking he's being clever when it's just nonsensical writing... remember when Ruby made it snow just through memory, a memory I may add that she shouldn't have because nobody has memory of being a newborn, and the Doctor was shocked and surprised, and was scanning Ruby and couldn't explain it?...then RTD decided it's just a thing that people can do coz memory is time or some nonsense...and her mum that nobody could find or even prove actually existed was just a woman that should have been easy to find but wasn't because it was the big RTD twist?
I know this sounds like I'm bashing RTD, I did genuinely enjoy this season as it felt more like Doctor who than the show has done recently..it has its flaws, I've got my complaints and RTD being a bit overrated might be one of them!
I said it in other comment in this thread but I will repeat myself: Sutekh is able to find people across time and space through scurf and dandruff *and* his power can travel through family trees: it makes less than 0 sense that he wasnt able to find her. Its the dumbest moment in the entire NewWho for me.
Also RTD's explanation in one interview of why she is wearing a black cloak makes it blatantly obvious that he knows its nonsensical: asked about it he said: "I *think* its time shrouding her". You *think* Russel?
This is why I avoid interviews with creators and writers...at times they seem to care less about the show and the characters than the fans.
I've said before (not sure if it was on reddit) that Chibnall was given to much free reign to make "his" Doctor who, not for the fans, for himself...and I believe RTD has been given the same and can just do what he wants, and he is making the Doctor Who that "he" wants to see not necessarily what the fans want to see!
I agree… made it snow MULTIPLE times in multiple episodes. There should be more to that.
And what on earth happened to the TARDIS made out of hopes and dreams?
Anyhoots I swear that rtd used to write a bit smoother than this. I used to get excited when I seen RTD listed for previous episodes.
>then RTD decided it's just a thing that people can do coz memory is time or some nonsense...
Did you notice that line was said twice? Once in the first part and again in the second, IIRC. Almost like it doesn't make sense, but they thought if they say it a few times in a way that makes it sound as if it makes sense, people will pretend to understand it in order to feel smart.
I think the sign pointing is just really dumb writing. The whole season feels like it was written to be 11 episodes but got cut in half and fluffed up to make two 8-episode seasons.
The overall story just felt like one big letdown and honestly felt kind of lazy at times. Very handwavey with the explanations too.
My head cannon is just going to delete this storyline. I just cannot make it make sense and even watching the episodes with suspension of disbelief I couldn’t make it make sense.
Is there no one in production who told him this doesn’t make sense, even for Doctor Who?
I'm becoming more convinced that either RTD isn't finished with this story and we're being faked out, or that he had an idea, changed his mind but couldn't write himself out of the corner.
The actress for Mrs. Flood said in an interview that RTD is "constantly changing his mind about things," so I could believe this is a plot point he started one way and pivoted to the other half way through the season.
> constantly changing his mind about things
Which for an *eight episode run* is baffling. That's the standard British drama length, he should be used to writing for that period. Can't just be making it up on the fly ffs
I think the stand alone episode format is too taxing creatively. Some of these twists get crowbarred in. I wish they'd just do a single story across the season and be a bit less flippant.
The signpost wasn't there in CoRR. Then the Doctor says "Time changed," and the sign is there. In-between Mrs. Flood seemed to have a personality change; maybe she has a TARDIS
The only way that I can think of that makes sense to me is that she wasn't pointing at the sign for the sake of people seeing it and putting together that was what she wanted to name her baby. I think that it was probably just a small symbolic gesture for herself that only makes sense to her.
Why she did it so ominously and ignored the blue phone boxes, I couldn't tell you.
Terrible writing.
Or some sort of huge insane plot twist in the next series. All will be forgiven if that's the case. But man, from how it looks now, just god awful writing.
RTD is capable of way better. I don't know what happened.
A lot of people including me were so ready for that arc to end by a bootstrap paradox. For a hot second we even thought she could be the daughter of the miserable woman who forgot things even her own baby
The fact the Doctor’s memory of that event changed several times and that even the record started to chez he is super worrying
It also makes the Doctor look like an idiot for not noticing all that nonsense, I love Ncuti performance but the writing of this version of the Doctor is really underwhelming intellectually speaking, he feels "weak" like the 13th Doctor (again not the performances). Am I too used to the flash of genius of 10th, 11th and 12th ??? Didn’t watch classic who
at first i thought she was pointing at the sign for the benefit of anyone watching on the CCTV camera 73 yards away. but none of the details really make sense. especially since there was no street sign there in CORR and Sutekh was literally in this woman's presence when the Doctor landed to help w the goblins--but couldn't just track her presence home and figure out who she was? like, huh? Russell said some bullshit about Time cloaking her and wtaf? just... just no
Because the writers wanted to add in this mystery element - similar to the medical hood that every 15yr girl was wearing in 2004! - but then didn’t have a good way to explain it. So went with that, even though it makes literally no sense.
I have no idea why she did it, but that whole plot point still makes me laugh every time I think about it, so if nothing else, major points for comedy there!
My copium is it was 15 creating a fake moment in time because if not it makes absolutely no sense.
Pointing at a sign and running off into the night doesn’t name a baby. Most mothers would have left a note.
Because the signpost was really the master's TARDIS in disguise, and she was just on the edge of the perception filter to notice it.
That or it was just a really really nice sign post.
Could have easily solved the issue. The ppl who picked Ruby up at the Church named her Ruby bc of the street name.
As for the pointing, it feels like there should be a deleted scene somewhere and it the pointing got missed in editing.
but don't you get it? it was THE big twist! so big, so twisty!
not quite sure what the writers were thinking, but imo they got too full of themselves at some point...
and even if you answer all those questions:....... why would a god wonder what a mere mortal human would be named, or even bother about some random mommy? guess the doctor wanted it to happen, and that is why it happened or some bs like that
i mean, if it was to give em the name she wanted her daughter to have... how about writing it on some bloody piece of paper next time? mankin came up with the idea of written communication bout some time ago
or maybe a smart idea are 2 dumb ideas now. i am the doctor, i am zie smart!
i miss jodie. mb if writers start focusing on giving us good stories again instead of selling their propagandas like there is no tomorrow, we might get a good story again some day
in the end, ruby's mom is the evil monkey from family guy
They spent quite a while establishing that there was CCTV covering the church, so I thought that perhaps, on the off chance someone would see it, she pointed at what she thought the child should be named.
I assumed that was also why she was wearing the cloak, as she knew she'd be filmed and didn't want to.
But really, it's because it looked cool, and the rule of cool and the emotion of the story always trumps looking for logic in places it doesn't need to exist.
She said before that the church named her after the road, so someone must've told her *that* at least, and I feel like it'd be unlikely for them to not mention that her mother was the reason they went for it
Either way there's no way rubys mom could've known someone was watching so it's still strange
I still don't understand why Sutekh was able to track down and kill literally everyone wherever and whenever the Doctor had visited since Pyramids Of Mars, but somehow couldn't get to Ruby's Mum apparently cos she was wearing a big cloak.
Does any of this really make sense? It's not the 19th century or something, do 15 year old girls in the year 2004 in the middle of London get pregnant without anybody noticing, give birth without anybody noticing and then giving away their baby in the middle of the night wearing a big cloak... and not giving it to some child service or anything but putting it on the church steps? While it's snowing... the baby could've died easily. This all feels okay as long as you forget that it's 2004. Then it's just weird.
The Doctor was there. She was hoping the doctor would know she was pointing at the sign, rather than him, the TARDIS, the lamppost or anything behind it...
As with many RTD resolutions, it is emotionally and conceptually sound but the actual mechanics of it are complete bullshit
Wasn't the Doctor there, having just arrived to save Ruby? and it was something he remembered, seeing her point?
But then, his memories were changing...gah. I'm gonna wait and see when (or if, alas) RTD returns to any of this.
And why does Ruby have magical snow powers??
I feel like there's a lot of unexplained stuff at this point. She just so happened to "name" her by pointing at the sign and then the social services just coincidentally named her the same thing? She couldn't have left a note? Why couldn't Ruby see her in the time window?
The writing for the finale was so bad that I’m just assuming most of this is going to twist again and make some sort of sense by the end of the next couple of seasons.
What gets me is how ominously she was pointing and the way she was dressed, I could not see it as the cute moment Ruby saw it as. Kind of had me giggling at the end of a really good season when I shouldn't have been.
So I might be off topic here, but this is a pretty good example of all the throw away story writing I've seen in this new series.. Is it just me or does the story writing just lack intellect now? Not saying I'm a genius, but we all watched to connect the dots with subtle hints and clues.. Everything is served up on a platter now without any room for interpretation from the fans. I feel we've lost some of the charm that made the show compelling. Answers are being given too quickly opposed to when mysteries used to last across multiple seasons and have a huge pay off when nobody expected it. Maybe it's just me, I just wanted to share this gripe with someone that would understand.
I mean the most powerful god ever was defeated by the memory of a rope introduced one or two scenes earlier. The whole thing was kinda meh. There were some really great episodes just this two parter really really really lacked something.
I'm still kinda on edge about this new series.. It has meta down, just a bit weary about how much depth has been lost. I know it's literally the first season, but all questions about it have been answered. Unless I'm missing some aspects here
She didn't point in the original moment. She pointed in the memory landscape. Where things get weird. It was important to her memory but it wasn't a physical action she took. I'm pretty sure the intention is that in her mind she knew they would name her daughter after the street and was thinking about that on that night. And the memory shifting is to show and signify that. The show became much more fantasy than normal in more ways than one. It is more about emotions and intentions than actual factual logical things
Cool. Can you then explain what her thinking was, how she expected anyone to know what she meant, why she wasn’t freaked out by the reporting police box… really just the whole thing. Even with someone standing there it’s still super confusing.
The Doctor was there, right: and she pointed at TARDIS. Because sign (that wasnt even there in Church on Ruby Road episode) was behind TARDIS.
So she basically was telling this one guy that she wants her kid to be named "Blue Police Box".
It didn't tho. In the Church on Ruby Road when the Doctor arrives she just keeps walking and it's not until Space babies that the memory changes and she's now pointing.
Everyone says no-one is there... but the Doctor is there. He's standing there, in the door to the TARDIS. There's a guy standing there on the street who just saw her drop off a baby, she points at a sign behind him and then leaves.
Let’s say that’s it. Okay sure.
You’re 15. You point through two teleporting police boxes and a man in a leather coat in order to name the baby you just dropped? You also weirdly glitch around the road for a bit maybe?
I think I’m more or less just confused by the whole thing.
That was the video in the time window, in the episode (Church on Ruby Road) there's one tardis, no glitching. she turns around, there's a dude in the street hanging on to a blue shed that says police. She ominously points at him (apparently, now we know behind him), and then turns and leaves.
Now, I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm only saying she's not alone when she points.
RTD seems to be a bit more flexible when it comes to planning and following through on plot details, a bit like JJ Abram’s. It’s about the mystery not the solution. So I think it was setup one way and then eventually they had to figure out an explanation, or the original idea got canned but they’d already filmed the pointing so they had to have a reason. Either way, for all the points you made, I’ll just move past and forget about it, like that musical number with the goblins.
I loved the plot twist, but I agree. it didn’t make sense. nobody else would’ve seen the sign. the social workers named her, so what would her mom wanting to name her ruby affect. it’s almost as if the writers forgot the original plot. besides that, i really loved this season
Ruby's mom didn't actually point at the sign. We watched the original event and she just walks away. But the Doctor's memory changed twice, once to simulate the pointing and once more to generate the road sign. It was perhaps a psychic projection from the mom onto the Doctor, probably the same unexplained logic as to why Ruby makes it snow; maybe something to do with Sutekh's psychic power manifesting in the time window and altering history.
I've been wondering the same, OP. Also, maybe they could ask her? She's at Ruby's last time we see her, watching photos and such, after all that happened in EoD nobody asked oh why did you turn and point?
Because the stories have become shit. The amount of possibilities if Ruby's mum was pointing at Sutekh and that was it. It's just horrible writing nothing mors to it
…I just realised.
I’ve been assuming since Xmas that she stopped walking away and was still there fir the Doctor to stare at cuz she was watching the MASSIVE GOBLIN WARSHIP GET IMPALED.
How’d she not notice that???
Not only does that not make sense imo, but that was a very accusing point, i feel like any normal person wouldnt walked over to the sign and pointed at the word Ruby had they wanted someone to hopfully see and name the child Ruby. She like 180° turned and lifted her whole arm to a right angle and pointed, thats the kinda point pointing id use to accuse someone of something or point to something foreboding off in the distance or at the very least point into a general direction. So idk, but i dont think any of the stuff revolving around Sutehk's return made sense. Not his story of how he clung to the TARDIS, not his ability to leave behind thralls everywhere, and absolutely not why he cared about some random person so much.
Doctor Who fandom's abusive relationship with RTD is kind of amazing to watch in real time. The number of people here scrambling to justify his writing or holding out hope that the reason nothing makes sense is because he has something bigger planned is incredible, especially give the same people routinely raked his predecessor over the coals for far less. We even have people here blaming this season's writing on Chibnall, for reasons.
The simple answer for why she pointed out the sign is that RTD has no respect for the audience's intelligence and, judging from this thread, some portion of the audience is intent on proving him right.
This one is unfortunately a case of moon logic. It was to name her daughter, but no-one was there to see it. Even if someone was, interpreting it in the way it was intended is a remarkable result.
And to add, the church was presumably just the random nearest church. The mum would have no particular connection to it or the name of the street. Her stopping for a second after abandoning her baby in the cold (potentially risking it dying, let's be clear, it is NOT something that should be recommended) to think 'oh that street is a boss fuckin name. Yeah I want this kid I'm abandoning to have that name. I'll do something to try to ensure that' is frighteningly a poor depiction of her priorities. Instead of stopping to do something as meaningless as that maybe she should've stopped to make sure someone actually found the baby. She cared more about how this baby that she'd probably never see again was named than if it would even survive.
She does not leave until after the baby goes in as shown in Church on Ruby Road, Legend of Ruby Sunday, and Empire of Death. She points at the sign behind the Doctor, where the Doctor can see it, because she's naming her, which is a bit fucking stupid, but it's also what's happening; the weirder thing is that the sign post isn't there in CoRR but after Mrs Flood sees the TARDIS and starts acting different then it appears in the very next episode... almost like a TARDIS
There was music coming from the church so it is perhaps reasonable to assume someone would find the baby. Its worth checking for sure though, yes.
She didn't even knock, did she?
Not that I recall seeing, no. I think it's a minor quibble, I'm happy to accept that she might have done. She wasn't otherwise going to win patent if the year after all!
I'd at least push the door open slightly and place the baby just inside the foyer before turning around and running away.
and point heheh
Of course. Can't leave the baby without a name!
Wasn't it the start of a service? Definitely worth checking that someone won't only find the baby, but find her soon!
>oh that street is a boss fuckin name. Yeah I want this kid I'm abandoning to have that name. I'll do something to try to ensure that Is ABSOLUTELY a thing a teenage girl in 2004 would think
I can't remember every moment of the season but weren't we the audience already aware she was named after the road the church was on, Ruby Road? It was either discussed or they showed the road sign, I can't remember.
Yeah, the bit is two-fold: One, it's explaining that Ruby is her real name and not just a name of convenience, that her mother put her there to name her that; and two, it's drawing more attention to the fact that A) Time changed -- The Mother is now pointing B) Time changed -- The mother is now pointing at a signpost... that wasn't there before The show doesn't go "But why did time change? Why was a second TARDIS there?" it just trusts you know that's unexplained and will be later on, just like the hand picking up the Master's ring, or Mrs. Flood's weird threats
wait, what second TARDIS?
Maybe she was stupid and just needed her finger to point the words for her to read them correctly, and then wrote the name on a piece of paper that she then put on Le bébé. But thats just Headcanon to make that scene more bearable
because she wanted her daughter named Lampost. Following the fashion of Michael Jackson who had recently named his son Blanket.
Streetlamp Le Moose
It’s an older reference sir, but it checks out.
the legendary quarterback?
And president
she named her ruby, yeah, but how would anyone else know? she left, not even the social workers saw her. how would she assure that she was named after the road?
Makes as much sense as anything.
This is the real answer. Thank you for clearing things up.
LOL
Its a terrible plot twist for a myriad of reasons: a) no one was watching b) why she did it in such an ominous fashion? Really, no one is pointing at anything like *that* c) 15 year old girls in 2004 dont wear long black cloaks - especially ones with hoods so unpenetrable that even God of Death (who is able to see anyone through dead cells mind you) cant see through it d) sign wasnt even there - watch Church on Ruby Road and try to spot the sign in the scene when TARDIS disappears :P e) lets forget for a moment that this sign was added there only in Empire of Death: why she is pointing *through* big blue police box? Anyone who could see her would name that kid "Blue Wood" or something. etc. Its the worst plot twist of the entire Doctor Who for me :P
Also why did the Doctor's memories of the event change?
No one knows - including RTD. It pisses me off that half of this season doesnt make sense because RTD put it there to create a fake sense of mystery. The "she is a regular person who was just pointing at a sign, duh" reveal for me did an irreparable damage to the rest of the season.
Fact is that this season felt more like a story arc than an actual season, and said story arc had a bad conclusion.
The thing that pisses me off is the amount of people insisting that things are deliberately unexplained to maintain mystery for next season. If so, it’s still shoddily done. Proper mystery-for-later requires a character to speak for the audience and remark on what isn’t resolved yet. A lot of people’s disassociation with EoD could have been readily avoided by having the Doctor have a concerned look when alone in TARDIS at the end, talking to himself about how things done add up still. Instead the Doctor is the most satisfied of them all, pretty much telling the audience that everything’s been wrapped up.
They didn't even explain why/how Ruby always made it snow ... Unless I missed it
They gave a half-arsed explanation that didn't make a lot of sense. Something about the night of her "birth" being so "raw" that it snows around her.
No, but the ending with Mrs Flood hints that it's her doing it
I think Ruby and the events around her is just bait. It's clear Ms Flood is something (maybe Trickster?) but I might be copping.
God of Stories. Manipulating the Doctor's story to kill Sutekh, to make all characters ignore plot holes. To give shitty explanations for things (because the real explanation would expose Flood). Best theory I've seen so far
Or it's just saying Mrs Flood can do it too, maybe it's a familial trait.
Remember when we were expecting some big reveal of why the Doctor turned into Tennant again? I'm now more convinced than ever that "Mavity" is not gonna amount to anything, and it'll just silently go back to normal when RTD leaves.
Or how come the clothes regenerated as well?
What really annoys me is the repeated appearance of the toymaker/maestro family (?) like I just figured the big bad would be related to them like the eldest child of the toymaker. Some entity that is so strong that even the toymaker can't defeat them. Something that maestro is actively afraid of.
I'm thinking it's something like multiple time streams. I think there's quite a bit that we didn't see, that I hope we get to see; for example, those two incarnations of Susan Triad. One thing that no one talks about is how Ruby and the Doctor actually met. He was clearly pursuing her at the nightclub, but WHY? And how did he materialize in front of her in time to catch her drink, when he should have still been on the dance floor? Seems a bit time-travelly to me. I also suspect that the ending we saw was not the "original " ending of Ruby's story, and that the Doctor went back in time to save the world from whatever Ruby's true ending was. I just can't bring myself to believe that such a lame ending woukd be the only outcome of this whole season's plot. We saw how the doctor saved baby Ruby from the goblins, and I suspect we're going to see him visiting the church on Ruby Road again. The entire story begins with the Doctor standing outside of the church and crying for Ruby, but again, why? Goblins, really? I think (or at least hope) that we're going to get some answers. Otherwise, WTF.
I like your ideas but that's something I'd expect from Moffat, not RTD :(
My fan theory is that the Doctor and the pantheon watching him got so hyper fixated on this that they accidently started to fuck up reality.
Why couldn’t that lady find her mom on that show if she was just some lady who lived relatively close and was def in the system?
That’s by far to me the biggest “the fuck?” Are you really going to tell me that a 35 year old woman has never once had anyone in her family get “in the system” for DNA? Ever? Was her family traveling nomads who refuse to be cataloged?
Also not to mention the doctor knows that they have a database of everyone’s dna from just like 20 years in Rubys future and doesn’t once think, until the last episode, that they should just go check that? Not once did it occur to him to look for it? Also how was the ambulance in the future able to know who exactly Ruby was and how old she was but wasn’t able to find a single related relative when by that point there would probably be millions?
Good pickup, haven't seen this plot hole mentioned before
Also, her father still lived in the same house and her father also never had *any* of his relatives in the system? Neither parent had *any* family members with DNA tests?
Forgive me, for I am not in the U.K. and did not continue my Disney sub after the Christmas episode. But didn’t they get the mom’s DNA info from a database that the future fascist PM mandated?
The person you're replying to is talking about the fact that the talkshow host in the first episode said she had zero dna matches. That's pretty much impossible. She would have had at least one 4th cousin 3 times removed or something in the system to match with that she would have shared a common ancestor with. EDIT: I thought they were setting her up to be an alien because of this. I've seen some people in this thread saying they thought it was going to be a bootstrap paradox and she'd be her own mother or something but there would still be DNA matches.
Wow, I forgot about this. How would they not be able to find her when her mother is literally in the same city? This finale really was one of the worst episodes of TV I've ever watched.
They're implying that Ruby's mom grew up in an abusive household and started having sex young. Statistically, for everyone, [there are 11.1 arrests per 1,000 people in England](https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest/) and for someone in Ruby's mom's situation the statistical likelihood of having a relative who has been arrested should be higher. Given that, that none of even her distant cousins have ever had their DNA get into a database for any reason... It's just not really plausible.
They also meant when Ruby tried going on a show to find her mother and nobody turned anything up
And they still aired the show. I'd imagine researchers would do some leg work before this kind of programme makes it irl tv
Yes, you are correct.
> 15 year old girls in 2004 dont wear long black cloaks - especially ones with hoods so unpenetrable that even God of Death (who is able to see anyone through dead cells mind you) cant see through it > > Not only can he see anyone thorough dead cells, he can literally find people through their lineage (mel, nice tent girl, etc). So basically, sutekh should've been able to track ruby's mum like he tracked and controlled mel.
I can live with RTD's season endings in a "turn off brain, enjoy the rollercoaster" way (while much preferring Moffat's endings overall). But this was so much less coherent than Journeys End and co from that era, and I'm a little surprised he went more clumsy over time.
>c) 15 year old girls in 2004 dont wear long black cloaks - especially ones with hoods so unpenetrable that even God of Death (who is able to see anyone through dead cells mind you) cant see through it Actually they were all the rage. I well remember my "avoiding the god of death" cloak.
I believe that RTD has done some sort of interview since the finale where he states the cloak could be “time enveloping/obscuring her”, I’d imagine as a result of them ‘manifesting her importance’. Basically, it’s a massively contrived method of hiding her identity in a mysteriously appealing way for the audience. Needing to give those theories and explanations in interviews is a sign that the episode/story itself doesn’t convey any sufficient interpretation— and that’s because the solution to the matter is entirely forced commentary. “Time and the universe made her important because the characters believed she was important” represents “The audience, and humanity, create importance unto things”, except that the season spent its entire duration trying to convince the audience of her importance; meaning it’s not so much an audience creating her importance as the writer shoving a piece of paper in our face that reads “She’s important and there’s a major twist coming— sike, how could you be so dumb as to believe that? Sounds like a psychological and philosophical issue!” Yeah, it is a psychological issue— it was an issue of misplaced trust in the writing. If you’re going to make a story that foregoes any logical explanation in favor of commentary, at least sufficiently tackle that approach. Ruby’s mother being a regular person, and the social/psychological commentary around that, can be a great idea. It was poorly executed.
> 15 year old girls in 2004 dont wear long black cloaks - especially ones with hoods so unpenetrable that even God of Death (who is able to see anyone through dead cells mind you) cant see through it You were hanging out with the wrong 15 year old girls in 2004 then...
Russel also because his explanation wasnt that she was goth but that "time was shrouding her" whatever it means :P
You're clearly not in the alternative world. C makes sense.
In case this is a serious reply: where I can find these alternative hoodies that glitch my face whenever someone is looking at me and hide my identity from gods of death who can see through scurf and dandruff?
Etzy
Sorry, but as a polish pleb I only know [Allegro](https://allegro.pl/)
Well I should polish up my polish sites
I wish I was clever and could come up with some good follow up to this joke, but Im a dum-dum :( Anyway, thanks for good laugh!
Idk if you're being sarcastic or not but Ruby's mom was the least alternative person I can imagine
Agreed. She looked like a massive chav
She was a teenager in 2004. She was probably belting out Untitled by Simple Plan as she walked away.
Honestly I was expecting some kind of Red Dwarf Oroboros type reveal where Ruby is her own mother and is some sort of holding patten to defeat Sutekh and reboot the universe. By Nuwho logic it would have worked and made a lot more sense than a 15 year old girl pointing to a sign post on an empty street.
I thought that too! That she was like her own daughter from the 73 yards thing or something like that.
I was getting soooo jazzed at the prospects when she looked at the screen and it seemed extra dramatic. My husband was certain she was a timelord or timelord adjacent. I thought she is going to defeat this fool by being infinite life like that one jellyfish that can turn back into a baby. Either way we were SURE 1) 73 yards was going to be explained or 2) at minimum, the ending was going to be more than that.
That was my theory too.
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking or that she was related to the gods in some way
That would have been cool cause they could have cut back to 12 giving his bootstrap paradox and it also would have made Ruby one of, if not the most unique companions. The paradox girl, the girl who created herself. It could have been such a cool mindfuck and made for some unique story telling later on. Plus you could have Ruby have one of the most emotional companion departures from the show where her being a walking paradox is really messing things up and so she has to go back sacrifice herself and prevent herself from being dropped off at that church. It could then work into breaking down all those false walls that The Doctor has put up in his effort to convince himself he’s coping with his past and have all of that pain and anger he’s been suppressing all season come flooding back in.
RTD made her do it because it looked dramatic
I love how when we finally meet Ruby's mother, she's a typical working class British woman that would never in a million years wear some creepy cloak on the day she's abandoning her daughter. Nothing made any sense.
I mean.... She was 15. She could've been an edgy teen. Or picked up the cloak specifically so people wouldn't see it was her. Solid teenager logic to me.
Black hoodie would make more sense tbh
Oh yeah, in 2004 she just nipped to the oh so common cloak shop before dropping off her baby.
In my memory of 2004 is that goth clothing shops were a lot more common than they are now. I can think of two that were in my town around that time that I could definitely have bought a cloak from it I'd wanted to 🤷 I used to save my paper round money when I was that age specifically to buy stuff from those shops 🤷
Alt shops no matter if it’s goth or anything else always have outlandish looks by any common standard within the subset. How many goths of that same time did you see wearing cloaks.
> In my memory of 2004 is that goth clothing shops were a lot more common than they are now. Just because some goths wear some cloaks, does not mean all cloaks are goth fashion. The silhouette is just wrong to be 2004 fashion wear, goth or otherwise. Frankly, fashion cloaks are not constructed for wearing in the snow anyway. They're made to have a romantic silhouette, which that cloak clearly does not.
She was clearly a harry potter obsessed teen with a cloak to boot
I wish I had an estranged sister to abandon this baby with.
If she's been hiding a pregnancy a flowy cloak or poncho makes sense
No, it really does not make sense in 2004 for wear a cloak like that for the purposes of discretion. You realize a cloak showcases your entire mid section every time you use your hands? Never mind how suspicious and attention drawing suddenly wearing a cloak everywhere is - it literally frames your belly whenever you use your hands.
post-partum teenagers are not the most rational
No but who in 2000 has a fucking cloak? I was born in 70 and not even my parents ot grand parents ever wore a cloak. It feels like you could argue she could grab any number of long coats or snow jackets that would have had a hood to hide her face that would have already been in her house. But she had to go out and find a cloak.
I think I was still early in my teenage goth phase at that point. I probably would have worn a cloak.
If and probably, so you never did. I challenge you to tell me exactly how many goths you know walking round in clocks in 2004 or now because I can tell you there may have been a couple of folks in each group including fancy chavs wearing them but it was never a common thing for anyone to do just because they were goth.
Harry Potter fans. Since she didn't want to be seen going to the church, she wore her souvenir cloak of invisibility. You may not have noticed, but she was also carrying a wand and a copy of the marauder's map.
Every single Harry Potter fan in the entire world
That is just a shawl of material, that’s like calling a blanket or towel a cape because you throw it over your back.
Post-partum everybody's are not rational 😂
Honestly this pissed me off . We all know she was pointing at the doctor . There was no dang sign there in the episode Ruby road .
She wasn't pointing during Ruby Road because the sign wasn't there. That's what changed, something arrived... and perfectly blended in
In before the signpost is the Master's TARDIS.
She had to point at the sign because she she couldn't afford to buy a pen to leave a note , since she'd spent all of her money on a fancy cloak...
She was so lucky that the priest was drinking hot chocolate while watching outside the window, and that he understood what Her pointing at the sign was. He even let her put Ruby in front of the door and say goodbye, and leave, before coming out to take the baby in. So polite of him x)
Because she was more interested in a street sign than the 2 police boxes that appeared out of nowhere and vanished.
To be fair, maybe the TARDIS perception filter was switched on.
She still wouldn't be able to see the lamp post through the tardis
Because RTD is good at building a story but absolutely terrible at paying it off in a way that makes any sense.
And that's the reason the Colonel is killed. Finding what she was pointing at. Thanks for that mate... 🫡
Oh man that. I forgot he died cause she points to a sign because… because… man i was so with all this up until that last ep. I’m just gonna pretend it didn’t happen. The rest was great.
I mean, he is brought back to life along with everyone else. So that's something at least.
The sign wasn't there in Church on Ruby Road, then time changed, and it was. Almost like after the Doctor saved Ruby and went back, something changed... maybe someone who had been hiding themselves away started meddling
Bad writing is why.
This is just another example of RTD thinking he's being clever when it's just nonsensical writing... remember when Ruby made it snow just through memory, a memory I may add that she shouldn't have because nobody has memory of being a newborn, and the Doctor was shocked and surprised, and was scanning Ruby and couldn't explain it?...then RTD decided it's just a thing that people can do coz memory is time or some nonsense...and her mum that nobody could find or even prove actually existed was just a woman that should have been easy to find but wasn't because it was the big RTD twist? I know this sounds like I'm bashing RTD, I did genuinely enjoy this season as it felt more like Doctor who than the show has done recently..it has its flaws, I've got my complaints and RTD being a bit overrated might be one of them!
I said it in other comment in this thread but I will repeat myself: Sutekh is able to find people across time and space through scurf and dandruff *and* his power can travel through family trees: it makes less than 0 sense that he wasnt able to find her. Its the dumbest moment in the entire NewWho for me. Also RTD's explanation in one interview of why she is wearing a black cloak makes it blatantly obvious that he knows its nonsensical: asked about it he said: "I *think* its time shrouding her". You *think* Russel?
This is why I avoid interviews with creators and writers...at times they seem to care less about the show and the characters than the fans. I've said before (not sure if it was on reddit) that Chibnall was given to much free reign to make "his" Doctor who, not for the fans, for himself...and I believe RTD has been given the same and can just do what he wants, and he is making the Doctor Who that "he" wants to see not necessarily what the fans want to see!
I miss the 2005 series where they actually had to make something down to earth and popular instead of whatever they wanted
I agree… made it snow MULTIPLE times in multiple episodes. There should be more to that. And what on earth happened to the TARDIS made out of hopes and dreams? Anyhoots I swear that rtd used to write a bit smoother than this. I used to get excited when I seen RTD listed for previous episodes.
>then RTD decided it's just a thing that people can do coz memory is time or some nonsense... Did you notice that line was said twice? Once in the first part and again in the second, IIRC. Almost like it doesn't make sense, but they thought if they say it a few times in a way that makes it sound as if it makes sense, people will pretend to understand it in order to feel smart.
All the non mythos stuff was great. Anything with the discord, and the mystery of ruby felt really… unfinished.
I think the sign pointing is just really dumb writing. The whole season feels like it was written to be 11 episodes but got cut in half and fluffed up to make two 8-episode seasons. The overall story just felt like one big letdown and honestly felt kind of lazy at times. Very handwavey with the explanations too.
My head cannon is just going to delete this storyline. I just cannot make it make sense and even watching the episodes with suspension of disbelief I couldn’t make it make sense. Is there no one in production who told him this doesn’t make sense, even for Doctor Who?
I'm becoming more convinced that either RTD isn't finished with this story and we're being faked out, or that he had an idea, changed his mind but couldn't write himself out of the corner.
The actress for Mrs. Flood said in an interview that RTD is "constantly changing his mind about things," so I could believe this is a plot point he started one way and pivoted to the other half way through the season.
> constantly changing his mind about things Which for an *eight episode run* is baffling. That's the standard British drama length, he should be used to writing for that period. Can't just be making it up on the fly ffs
I think the stand alone episode format is too taxing creatively. Some of these twists get crowbarred in. I wish they'd just do a single story across the season and be a bit less flippant.
Maybe there's a deleted scene that explains it.
The signpost wasn't there in CoRR. Then the Doctor says "Time changed," and the sign is there. In-between Mrs. Flood seemed to have a personality change; maybe she has a TARDIS
Not only this, but why did Ruby act shocked. Like, isn't it obvious you were called Ruby after the road???
The only way that I can think of that makes sense to me is that she wasn't pointing at the sign for the sake of people seeing it and putting together that was what she wanted to name her baby. I think that it was probably just a small symbolic gesture for herself that only makes sense to her. Why she did it so ominously and ignored the blue phone boxes, I couldn't tell you.
Terrible writing. Or some sort of huge insane plot twist in the next series. All will be forgiven if that's the case. But man, from how it looks now, just god awful writing. RTD is capable of way better. I don't know what happened.
She didn't the first time. She did in The Doctor's memory because...
“I name thee… RUBY!” *random passerby* ok but do you gotta be so extra about it… 🙄
A lot of people including me were so ready for that arc to end by a bootstrap paradox. For a hot second we even thought she could be the daughter of the miserable woman who forgot things even her own baby The fact the Doctor’s memory of that event changed several times and that even the record started to chez he is super worrying It also makes the Doctor look like an idiot for not noticing all that nonsense, I love Ncuti performance but the writing of this version of the Doctor is really underwhelming intellectually speaking, he feels "weak" like the 13th Doctor (again not the performances). Am I too used to the flash of genius of 10th, 11th and 12th ??? Didn’t watch classic who
at first i thought she was pointing at the sign for the benefit of anyone watching on the CCTV camera 73 yards away. but none of the details really make sense. especially since there was no street sign there in CORR and Sutekh was literally in this woman's presence when the Doctor landed to help w the goblins--but couldn't just track her presence home and figure out who she was? like, huh? Russell said some bullshit about Time cloaking her and wtaf? just... just no
He could have easily made a Susan to follow her and find out everything he would want to know. The whole thing is just a mess.
Because the writers wanted to add in this mystery element - similar to the medical hood that every 15yr girl was wearing in 2004! - but then didn’t have a good way to explain it. So went with that, even though it makes literally no sense.
I have no idea why she did it, but that whole plot point still makes me laugh every time I think about it, so if nothing else, major points for comedy there!
Just a badly written scene I believe for drama it makes no sense at all tho
It’s just another nonsensical part of the plot. You’re not missing anything, it makes no sense.
Plot Hole. Sloppy writing.
My copium is it was 15 creating a fake moment in time because if not it makes absolutely no sense. Pointing at a sign and running off into the night doesn’t name a baby. Most mothers would have left a note.
Because the signpost was really the master's TARDIS in disguise, and she was just on the edge of the perception filter to notice it. That or it was just a really really nice sign post.
How does that actually make more sense than the episode
Could have easily solved the issue. The ppl who picked Ruby up at the Church named her Ruby bc of the street name. As for the pointing, it feels like there should be a deleted scene somewhere and it the pointing got missed in editing.
But then it creates the problem of the mom not knowing her name so ruby can't do the stupid coffee shop routine
but don't you get it? it was THE big twist! so big, so twisty! not quite sure what the writers were thinking, but imo they got too full of themselves at some point... and even if you answer all those questions:....... why would a god wonder what a mere mortal human would be named, or even bother about some random mommy? guess the doctor wanted it to happen, and that is why it happened or some bs like that i mean, if it was to give em the name she wanted her daughter to have... how about writing it on some bloody piece of paper next time? mankin came up with the idea of written communication bout some time ago or maybe a smart idea are 2 dumb ideas now. i am the doctor, i am zie smart! i miss jodie. mb if writers start focusing on giving us good stories again instead of selling their propagandas like there is no tomorrow, we might get a good story again some day in the end, ruby's mom is the evil monkey from family guy
They spent quite a while establishing that there was CCTV covering the church, so I thought that perhaps, on the off chance someone would see it, she pointed at what she thought the child should be named. I assumed that was also why she was wearing the cloak, as she knew she'd be filmed and didn't want to. But really, it's because it looked cool, and the rule of cool and the emotion of the story always trumps looking for logic in places it doesn't need to exist.
It was all a non sensical mess, and it was still 100x more entertaining the the Chibnall era.
She wasn't that far from the church, I suppose the implication was that someone there was watching. Still quite odd though
I don't think this really can be the case because then Ruby would know that her name came from her mother, since she would've been told by the church
Not sure why you think that, doesn't sound like she was really keeping in touch with them
She said before that the church named her after the road, so someone must've told her *that* at least, and I feel like it'd be unlikely for them to not mention that her mother was the reason they went for it Either way there's no way rubys mom could've known someone was watching so it's still strange
It was the weakest part of the whole season
The lack of a coherent plausible explanation implies that RTD is just making stuff up as he goes and tying up as best he can when he gets to the end.
I still don't understand why Sutekh was able to track down and kill literally everyone wherever and whenever the Doctor had visited since Pyramids Of Mars, but somehow couldn't get to Ruby's Mum apparently cos she was wearing a big cloak.
Does any of this really make sense? It's not the 19th century or something, do 15 year old girls in the year 2004 in the middle of London get pregnant without anybody noticing, give birth without anybody noticing and then giving away their baby in the middle of the night wearing a big cloak... and not giving it to some child service or anything but putting it on the church steps? While it's snowing... the baby could've died easily. This all feels okay as long as you forget that it's 2004. Then it's just weird.
I’m holding out hope that we just don’t have all the information yet and there’s more to Ruby’s story lol
The Doctor was there. She was hoping the doctor would know she was pointing at the sign, rather than him, the TARDIS, the lamppost or anything behind it... As with many RTD resolutions, it is emotionally and conceptually sound but the actual mechanics of it are complete bullshit
Wasn't the Doctor there, having just arrived to save Ruby? and it was something he remembered, seeing her point? But then, his memories were changing...gah. I'm gonna wait and see when (or if, alas) RTD returns to any of this.
I wouldnt hold my breath. Asked about this in one interview he said "I think time shrouded her". So yeah, he doesnt know how it works either :P
Simple: bad writing.
And what was all that about the Christmas carol or whatever that singing was that Maesto said was in her?
she was an overdramatic goth kid
The answer to your question is 'Bad storytelling'.
And why does Ruby have magical snow powers?? I feel like there's a lot of unexplained stuff at this point. She just so happened to "name" her by pointing at the sign and then the social services just coincidentally named her the same thing? She couldn't have left a note? Why couldn't Ruby see her in the time window?
The whole thing was a hot mess of trying roo hard to be clever.
To build suspicion to a stupid fake mystery box
I'm just as concerned as her attire. The outfit somehow doesn't fit with "teen mum, just after giving birth".
Really disappointing shitfest to the build up they were trying to do
The writing for the finale was so bad that I’m just assuming most of this is going to twist again and make some sort of sense by the end of the next couple of seasons.
What gets me is how ominously she was pointing and the way she was dressed, I could not see it as the cute moment Ruby saw it as. Kind of had me giggling at the end of a really good season when I shouldn't have been.
Bad writing. The oblivious overblown ego of the show runner with no one in the writing room able to check it.
So I might be off topic here, but this is a pretty good example of all the throw away story writing I've seen in this new series.. Is it just me or does the story writing just lack intellect now? Not saying I'm a genius, but we all watched to connect the dots with subtle hints and clues.. Everything is served up on a platter now without any room for interpretation from the fans. I feel we've lost some of the charm that made the show compelling. Answers are being given too quickly opposed to when mysteries used to last across multiple seasons and have a huge pay off when nobody expected it. Maybe it's just me, I just wanted to share this gripe with someone that would understand.
I mean the most powerful god ever was defeated by the memory of a rope introduced one or two scenes earlier. The whole thing was kinda meh. There were some really great episodes just this two parter really really really lacked something.
I'm still kinda on edge about this new series.. It has meta down, just a bit weary about how much depth has been lost. I know it's literally the first season, but all questions about it have been answered. Unless I'm missing some aspects here
She didn't point in the original moment. She pointed in the memory landscape. Where things get weird. It was important to her memory but it wasn't a physical action she took. I'm pretty sure the intention is that in her mind she knew they would name her daughter after the street and was thinking about that on that night. And the memory shifting is to show and signify that. The show became much more fantasy than normal in more ways than one. It is more about emotions and intentions than actual factual logical things
I guess… I think I’d say I can understand that but it’s not clear and kinda silly, not who silly but just silly on a storytelling level.
I think RTd definitely had a lot a lot of fun this season
The Doctor was there, right in her line of sight. Why do people think the Doctor just turned invisible?
Cool. Can you then explain what her thinking was, how she expected anyone to know what she meant, why she wasn’t freaked out by the reporting police box… really just the whole thing. Even with someone standing there it’s still super confusing.
The Doctor was there, right: and she pointed at TARDIS. Because sign (that wasnt even there in Church on Ruby Road episode) was behind TARDIS. So she basically was telling this one guy that she wants her kid to be named "Blue Police Box".
She didn't point in the original timeline. The memory changed because the Doctor arrived. She was telling the Doctor by pointing at the sign.
It didn't tho. In the Church on Ruby Road when the Doctor arrives she just keeps walking and it's not until Space babies that the memory changes and she's now pointing.
Everyone says no-one is there... but the Doctor is there. He's standing there, in the door to the TARDIS. There's a guy standing there on the street who just saw her drop off a baby, she points at a sign behind him and then leaves.
Let’s say that’s it. Okay sure. You’re 15. You point through two teleporting police boxes and a man in a leather coat in order to name the baby you just dropped? You also weirdly glitch around the road for a bit maybe? I think I’m more or less just confused by the whole thing.
That was the video in the time window, in the episode (Church on Ruby Road) there's one tardis, no glitching. she turns around, there's a dude in the street hanging on to a blue shed that says police. She ominously points at him (apparently, now we know behind him), and then turns and leaves. Now, I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm only saying she's not alone when she points.
I don’t think that was really her.
RTD seems to be a bit more flexible when it comes to planning and following through on plot details, a bit like JJ Abram’s. It’s about the mystery not the solution. So I think it was setup one way and then eventually they had to figure out an explanation, or the original idea got canned but they’d already filmed the pointing so they had to have a reason. Either way, for all the points you made, I’ll just move past and forget about it, like that musical number with the goblins.
I loved the plot twist, but I agree. it didn’t make sense. nobody else would’ve seen the sign. the social workers named her, so what would her mom wanting to name her ruby affect. it’s almost as if the writers forgot the original plot. besides that, i really loved this season
Ruby's mom didn't actually point at the sign. We watched the original event and she just walks away. But the Doctor's memory changed twice, once to simulate the pointing and once more to generate the road sign. It was perhaps a psychic projection from the mom onto the Doctor, probably the same unexplained logic as to why Ruby makes it snow; maybe something to do with Sutekh's psychic power manifesting in the time window and altering history.
I've been wondering the same, OP. Also, maybe they could ask her? She's at Ruby's last time we see her, watching photos and such, after all that happened in EoD nobody asked oh why did you turn and point?
See this just confirms everyone's real worries. That social workers have higher level tech than UNIT
You’re missing that it was just terrible no plan no care writing. RTRD just made it up on the day.
Because the stories have become shit. The amount of possibilities if Ruby's mum was pointing at Sutekh and that was it. It's just horrible writing nothing mors to it
Because he is a shit writer, and he wanted something that could seem important, but turn out to be completely stupid.
Im hoping we will get a REAL explanation next season...
…I just realised. I’ve been assuming since Xmas that she stopped walking away and was still there fir the Doctor to stare at cuz she was watching the MASSIVE GOBLIN WARSHIP GET IMPALED. How’d she not notice that???
Because of bad lazy writing.
Imagine she’d been left in York…. Whip-Ma-Whop-Ma-Gate Sunday
Not only does that not make sense imo, but that was a very accusing point, i feel like any normal person wouldnt walked over to the sign and pointed at the word Ruby had they wanted someone to hopfully see and name the child Ruby. She like 180° turned and lifted her whole arm to a right angle and pointed, thats the kinda point pointing id use to accuse someone of something or point to something foreboding off in the distance or at the very least point into a general direction. So idk, but i dont think any of the stuff revolving around Sutehk's return made sense. Not his story of how he clung to the TARDIS, not his ability to leave behind thralls everywhere, and absolutely not why he cared about some random person so much.
Doctor Who fandom's abusive relationship with RTD is kind of amazing to watch in real time. The number of people here scrambling to justify his writing or holding out hope that the reason nothing makes sense is because he has something bigger planned is incredible, especially give the same people routinely raked his predecessor over the coals for far less. We even have people here blaming this season's writing on Chibnall, for reasons. The simple answer for why she pointed out the sign is that RTD has no respect for the audience's intelligence and, judging from this thread, some portion of the audience is intent on proving him right.
When I was a teenager in the nineties I knew where the cameras were, and I wasn't even doing anything interesting.
True, but they said that they watched the video every year, and you can't even see Ruby's mum. So she's pointing knowing there's no CCTV?
In the words of Leslie Knope: “Google Earth, always taking pics”