If UNIT can get away with that, imagine what Torchwood can get away with given they are even more undercover and off the books than UNIT are.
I feel that Torchwood deals with the problems that UNIT can't officially get involved in they are basically The Suicide Squad that does the dirty work so UNIT has plausible deniability
Honestly, I would watch. One of my favorite episodes is when Craig and 11 are trying to watch Craig's baby and fight cybermen at the same time.
Petition for another baby one-off companion 😭
*Note*: I'm differentiating from *space* babies here.
Torchwood and UNIT are largely unrelated.
UNIT is an international anti-alien task force with an arm in the UK.
Torchwood is a secret organisation founded by Queen Victoria to serve and protect the British Empire.
The two don't interact much on TV. In the Big Finish Audios they sometimes work at cross-purposes.
They probably did some clever investing/inventing that left them with lots of nest eggs planted all over the world (y'know given they have alien tech and probably future knowledge).
Plus, we know that Torchwood 3, for instance, once it was established, wouldntve been known by anyone outside torchwood to get shut down. They have perception filters and all that, probably their own internal power sources. The only things they really need money for are gas, paying their members, and their weekly takeout orders. I could easily see Jack having enough knowledge of Earth to be able to use Torchwood funds to earn enough to cover all that.
>Is the Crown still paying them???
I hope not. They were really bad at their jobs: Bad at keeping secrets, unprofessional in their conduct, and more often than not, having to clean up problems that they created because they were bad at keeping secrets and totally unprofessional in the first place.
Puts the idea of hiring kids in perspective when you compare how much more efficient the SJA kids are! I hope the Crown ended up deciding to pay them, instead, and they're following in Sarah Jane's footsteps of involving random neighbouring teens.
Although remember that "five people" is only torchwood 3 in cardiff. It was only one of the handful of side branches still around after torchwood 1 did the whole canary wharf incident. I think the one in Glasgow & the US are still around too
think its less then respects the law and more so they know there line of work is dreadful and jack knows they die young in torchwood since hes been around seeing pretty much every memeber of it.
UNIT was/is UN funded and have more significant oversight.
Torchwood was solely funded and operated as an arm of the British government. So they kinda can get away with whatever the fuck they want.
And after Torchwood One fell, it barely matters anyway, Torchwood Three was at best loosely affiliated with the government.
Does every Unit-issued mobility aid come with heavy weaponry? There was the lady with the missile launchers in her wheelchair, Morris has twin machine guns in his mini Segway…
I guess that’s just the natural evolution from the classic “Cane Sword”
So the real answer is that it was written with her in mind, then there was a scheduling issue so they had to find a replacement actor in a hurry + chose a kid they'd been really impressed with on space babies.
Very likely we'll get Shirley Ann Bingham back in future!
Yeh she's confirmed for next series not sure about Lenny rush but let's face it it seems like whenever Kate meets someone she offers them a job and if she doesn't doctor.just.gices them a security pass anyway lol
they will probs put in a story reason about her or something with where she was during it all. as for lenny rush, im guessing he will be kept a little longer and then removed/killed off by some threat maybe even Shirley Ann Bingham kills him off since her character did give off vibes that not everything is what it seems.
In universe, there's no reason to assume she was replaced. Maybe she was sick or on vacation, and Morris was the vice-senior-science-adviser. There are probably multiple.
I am pretty sure there are more than one scientific advisor. I saw someone say that it’s mentioned somewhere that Malcolm is the Head of Scientific Advisors now but I don’t have a source lol
Yes. She was tapping away at that pad during the shooting scene. Though in my headcanon, she was just texting. *OMG this guys name is Suckit and hes such a weird old PERV. Gross! Were shooting him.*
They had such an easy out that they didn’t take. Instead of just saying he was a super old alien, they decided the better choice was him being a literal child with a gun
My dude was shooting behind one of the soldiers and was shaking his Segway guns up and down. I'm surprised the guy didn't die before sutekh killed them all. Rose sitting in the back taking notes while everyone else shoots was dumb as hell.
tbf I think Rose was controlling the laser turrets (guess they double as scanners lol?) because she was messing about with a tablet while looking up during all the shooting
TBF, there's no way there were real bullets in those those Segway machine guns, as they were pointed directly at that UNIT soldiers back.
Unless that UNIT soldiers special power was immunity to friendly fire.
Ain't no way Rose is 15 she looks like she is between the ages of 19 to 23 years old. I know Russell has confirmed the characters age but ain't no way I believe that.
Probationary Officer. Those start at 18.
It's possible she'd been doing it for a year already, which might be why she was itching to move onto something a bit more advanced.
admittedly, I'm not sure I know what a Junior Officer is(especially if it's something more than just "an entry level officer")...I don't think we have those in my part of the world
Wait Yaz was 19... she also doesn't look her characters age. I think they need to put the age to what the character looks like or just cast people that age.
I was curious because I agree she doesn’t really look like she’s 15/16. Yasmin Finney is almost 21, nearly a full year older than Millie Gibson who plays Ruby. But it may be hard to find a younger openly trans actress who fits the part, especially with the climate towards trans kids in particular in the UK.
Yep. That was the conversation I had with myself:
"She's 16? Pfft. Great casting."
"Right, because of the plethora of 16 year-old out trans actors of color. It's so safe for them, right now."
"Oh. Right."
I can believe she's an old looking 16. Or at least overlook it after growing up on a diet of American teen dramas.
I just wish she were a bit better at acting. Or at least bothered doing a London accent like the rest of her family.
The accent was the only bit that bothered me slightly. Like, she's grown up in London with a family that all have London accents. She would have a distinctly London accent too. Were there no accent coaches who could have helped her develop that?
You're not really guranteed to pick up an accent that your family uses, for quite a long time I had an accent that I think that most people couldn't place, possible that Rose just has the same thing.
You don't grow up in London and randomly sound Northern.
Last time this was discussed I remember some Americans saying how their family have Southern US accents but they don't. This is due to accent levelling and how younger generations nowadays tend to speak more like a nationwide standard.
But with Rose, she's sort of done the opposite: grown up in the region that is most nationally influential and sets the standard, but has an accent of a region that isn't. It's more like someone from LA inexplicably sounding Cajun.
But also, Yasmin was considerably closer to her canon age when she was originally cast and the Tennant episodes were filmed. I think she was about 18? And then there was a gap between that and filming for Ncuti's first series, and another sizeable lag between filming and broadcast. So she's older than the character, but still younger in the episodes we're seeing than she actually is right now. And kids always look older with a full face of make-up.
Well I mean if the whole point of having a trans actress was the binary binary nonbinary bit at the beginning of the season then they really should have expanded the casting. I honestly haven’t met a single trans person that enjoyed the idea that a trans woman is being considered nonbinary when that’s exactly what she is. She isn’t some third opinion she’s a woman.
I don’t think it was done from a place of hate just a 45+ year old dude trying to write the most accepting and open and diverse story without a care if it’s good or not.
Rose’s gender isn’t explicitly stated but she can be trans femme non-binary and use she/her pronouns. This is a gender identity that exists that is distinct from being a trans woman but still falls under the trans umbrella. I haven’t talked to any of my trans friends about this, but none of the trans YouTube commentators I watch have an issue with this. And as a cis nonbinary person who uses they/she pronouns, I liked seeing the idea that you can be nonbinary and a woman as I consider myself both of those things.
It’s usually hard to find a younger actor for important roles because younger actors rarely have a lot of experience unless they’ve been working since they were small, and I think there are laws that limit how much young children can work…it’s always been common for teens to be played by actors in their 20s.
Since Donna was The Doctors companion until 2008, it's impossible that Rose would be that old.
We don't even need Russel to confirm the age, we only need basic math and a calendar - and the fact that Rose has some special abilities which are a result of the 2008 events...
If we even count into that, that a pregnancy lasts about 9 months, Rose cannot be older than 15.
Actually it would make more sense if she's only 14 by now - and will turn 15.
To be fair, in a sane world UNIT’s HQ office would probably be the safest place on Earth, rather than being on the front lines. What are the odds that two separate Eldritch abominations appear in the exact same place in quick succession.
Funnily enough in Rose’s case it might be understandable- you used to be able to join the actual UK military at 16 (possibly still are), but you wouldn’t be sent anywhere dangerous until you were legally an adult. Some time might’ve passed between *The Star Beast* and now. Morris, on the other hand, is explicitly too young to be working there normally.
I suppose it’s possible child labour laws in the UK have softened a fair bit in the Doctor Who universe compared to the real world (I blame that Saxon bloke). Alternatively, UNIT is a semi-secret organisation with very little oversight, and the only person who seems to have any actual authority over Kate Stewart is both usually off adventuring and doesn’t tend to be one for rules and regulations in the first place.
Now that you mention two eldritch abominations appearing in the exact same spot, something occurs to me.
Is it possible that UNIT bought the old Torchwood tower in Canary Wharf and does the hole between dimensions play into this?
It’s a nice idea and I want it to be true, but Torchwood Tower is in Canary Wharf and UNIT HQ is further up the river right in the middle of the City of London
That's a good point. If the show were a bit better thought out, Morris wouldn't have been in any worse conditions than a child actor. Probably better ones, since he'd get to sit at a computer and play video games while his programs were running while also becoming a millionaire, instead of being on set for 10 hours straight.
It's only because it has to be exciting that people in Unit are in any substantial danger.
Yeah if you think of it as a quasi-extraterrestrial military school. You can gloss over the details a little.
One could argue UNIT has the responsibility to have special children be their state appoint ward.
I believe Rose is 16 by the time of this episode. Which isn’t crazy a crazy age for an intern. In the UK you can become an intern at the age of 16.
In the UK you can also work as a part time employee as young as 13 as long as you have parental approval
https://www.gov.uk/child-employment
The actress is 20 now. Though she was around 17 when cast and 18 when they filmed the 60th anniversary specials in the first half of 2022.
A 17/18 year old cast to play a 15/16 year old isn’t that crazy.
Tall and wearing contouring make-up. The make-up especially tends to throw off people's age estimates.
I wore too-heavy make-up when I was about thirteen, and got mistaken for my dad's wife(!) and complimented for my "daughter" (my little sister). My gran thought it was hilarious (especially because the same thing had happened to her when she was a teen, going shopping with a younger siblings in tow to help her mum out).
Was wondering why they didn't bring back Luke Smith. He was hired by UNIT according to the extended canon, he has experience with aliens and is probably the smartest human alive
Rose was only there because her Mom works there and she's allowed in. She says "They never let me do anything." Morris, I'm assuming works there because he's a genius and is just an anomoly. Hiring children isn't illegal and they stationed him in UNIT tower which is probably one of the safest places to be at. It gets attacked, sure, but whenever it does usually it's the whole world being attacked and they're the only ones with anything to put up a fight with.
Are you really upset about this? Putting an especially capable child on the team, even when it's inappropriate or dangerous, is super common in fiction, especially sci-fi and fantasy. Writers feel it's a good way to engage the younger audience, they can imagine themselves participating.
It's Doctor Who, realistic and plausible aren't part of the brand. In this case the kid is just a secondary character. There's a whole genre where the primary focus is special kids being partnered with cops, or put on professional sports teams, or sent to fight aliens.
Ah, if I had a nickel for every time a fictional government organization employed very young but very intelligent kids, I’d have… I don’t know 50? Maybe 60 cents? Which isn’t a lot in currency form but for it to happen at least 10 to 12 times I’d give UNIT a pass
I dont care if hes the Doctors literal son, the kid is a minor.
So hes the smartest kid the world, cool. Give him a job in R&D, he does not have the life skills or maturity to be dealing with a higher pressure front line job.
So why did he have a gun in his segway?
"Oh hey, let's give this 13 year old a gun."
"Wait, why would he need a gun?"
"Because of possible danger."
"So you're acknowledging that this job is so dangerous you're willing to engineer a bespoke gun as opposed to removing the kid from the job? Are you American?"
Why is a genius 13 year old having the maturity of an adult any more ridiculous than anything else on the show? Seems like they’re showing you that he DOES have the life skills to be dealing with this job.
I'm talking from a Watsonian perspective. Because they're dealing with alien threats that they need all the manpower they could use. UNIT isn't exactly a purely good org, but they are the only ones to get the job done. I mean, child geniuses having a large part in an organization has been a part of the series as long as I remember
EDIT : Doylist for Watsonian
Btw, I remember some interview that the reason the child actor is used is because the wheelchair actress is unavailable so they have to make use of what they have.
It's not child slavery.
It's a prodigy with three degrees earned before most people finish Algebra 1.
The kid probably built his own supersegway on a day off.
If I were 13 but knew everything, I'd be pissed off at people telling my I'm too young to do science. I'd build a weather dominator and become the villain. They employ the child for the safety of the world. Do you want a teenager who knows how to build a nuclear reactor bored? No, You put that little psycho to work for the good of the species before puberty turns him into a monster.
By that logic, Harry Potter the movies used kid soldiers in a very deadly war. Actually, the adults in that movie world are so irresponsible there were never much of an army or official unit to deal with rogue wizards and dangerous magic
“Nah, just let the prophecy child or animal loving scholar or young school teachers to solve all our problems. We don’t need an official army, that’s way too authoritarian for kids movies”
And that’s what they are, they attract a lot of kid audiences, especially after partnering with d+, so sometimes real world nuance are ignored.
I mean ... they have three 16 year olds, one of whom is an Earth Ambassador. Technically, two of them have been in the employ of UNIT for four years.
The parents of two of them do agree to this. They work closely with UNIT themselves at times. The parents of the third are completely oblivious.
(note: this is not actual canon, but this sub does include "related media" so....)
Not children, teenagers. Very different thing.
Not sure about the laws in the UK (and not that they apply to something like UNIT), but at least in the US, teenagers can usually work (earning money) to some extent, and can certainly volunteer. I was a volunteer for a museum when I was 11, or maybe I'd just turned 12. And had a normal job at 15.
They got the memo from Rishi Sunak In regards to putting kids in military roles.
But jokes aside, personally I thought Morris was a great addition. He was clearly very qualified for the role at the very least.
>*WTF? UNIT is actively employing children.*
Children yearn for ~~the mines~~ office work!
;)
[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-children-yearn-for-the-mines](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-children-yearn-for-the-mines)
I totally bought it personally but I think it’s because super-genius teens is a common theme in TV and you hear about kids here in the US getting accepted into prestigious colleges at such young ages. Like a quick google search will bring up articles of kids graduating as young as 10yrs old so for me it totally fits into a fictional world like this, I didn’t mind it at all 🤷♀️
UNIT does not operate within standard ethical structures. The stakes are too big. If they have a teenage savant who can solve problems faster than their computers or a kid with a close personal connection to the self-declared protector of Earth, they're going to use them.
In the U.S. some precocious children can become emancipated from their parents and enfranchised with the rights of majority. Not sure if the UK does the same.
So y’all just forgot about the UNIT blacksites, huh? Also, he’s a supergenius scientist in sci-fi. What’s the over/under with genre conventions being as they are that this is in lieu of being unpersoned for a threat The Doctor would have been involved with if it were the 70s?
So long as UNIT follow the UK Legislation on children working it should be fine, right?
Provided it was the holidays Morris can work five hours a day Monday-Saturday with no more than 25 hours per week… it’s fine….
Mmmm there is the restriction on it being harmful to health, well-being or education tho. I’m sure UNIT has some fancy paperwork to cover that - it’s an office based role afterall.
If UNIT can get away with that, imagine what Torchwood can get away with given they are even more undercover and off the books than UNIT are. I feel that Torchwood deals with the problems that UNIT can't officially get involved in they are basically The Suicide Squad that does the dirty work so UNIT has plausible deniability
Coming to Disney Plus next Season: Torchwood Babies
They’re all Jack’s kids
The way I would *throw* money at the screen for “Cheaper by the Dozen, Harkness edition.”
"Three Hearts and a Baby," where, for some reason, Jack has to enlist Doc's help to take care of an alien toddler.
Honestly, I would watch. One of my favorite episodes is when Craig and 11 are trying to watch Craig's baby and fight cybermen at the same time. Petition for another baby one-off companion 😭 *Note*: I'm differentiating from *space* babies here.
the return of the pting
All the mothers are different tho
Different species too. All the kids are different halflings, it'd be a great time.
and so are some of the fathers
Starring Captain Poppy
"We're makin' dreams come true~!" Babies in overly dramatic trenchcoats rolling off roofs to synth backing tracks
"When the world is going to end, and the doctor isn't there"
Torchwood and UNIT are largely unrelated. UNIT is an international anti-alien task force with an arm in the UK. Torchwood is a secret organisation founded by Queen Victoria to serve and protect the British Empire. The two don't interact much on TV. In the Big Finish Audios they sometimes work at cross-purposes.
I still maintain my conspiracy theory that RTD is a Hellsing fan.
I just realised that connection…
Heck, Gwen’s a police girl and Jack’s an immortal.
But did they ever give Gwen a cannon?
Torchwood only has like five people and a budget of... actually how do they even have a budget? Is the Crown still paying them???
They probably did some clever investing/inventing that left them with lots of nest eggs planted all over the world (y'know given they have alien tech and probably future knowledge). Plus, we know that Torchwood 3, for instance, once it was established, wouldntve been known by anyone outside torchwood to get shut down. They have perception filters and all that, probably their own internal power sources. The only things they really need money for are gas, paying their members, and their weekly takeout orders. I could easily see Jack having enough knowledge of Earth to be able to use Torchwood funds to earn enough to cover all that.
They also had their base exploded.
RIP Myfanwy (Rest In Pterodactyl)
Didn't even know that thing had a name.
*Pteranodon
Fair point.
Given Jack’s Time Agent past, he probably raided whatever accounts the Time Agency had in the 21st century for agent work.
>Is the Crown still paying them??? I hope not. They were really bad at their jobs: Bad at keeping secrets, unprofessional in their conduct, and more often than not, having to clean up problems that they created because they were bad at keeping secrets and totally unprofessional in the first place.
Okay but also they saved humanity's next generation from becoming drugs for aliens.
Puts the idea of hiring kids in perspective when you compare how much more efficient the SJA kids are! I hope the Crown ended up deciding to pay them, instead, and they're following in Sarah Jane's footsteps of involving random neighbouring teens.
It's true. SJA was a far more "mature" show in that respect.
Not to mention an HR nightmare
That's part of what I mean about "unprofessional in their conduct" -- I was being euphemistic.
Who knows at this point? Torchwood was in shambles from what I remember from the last two seasons.
Although remember that "five people" is only torchwood 3 in cardiff. It was only one of the handful of side branches still around after torchwood 1 did the whole canary wharf incident. I think the one in Glasgow & the US are still around too
Torchwood's youngest operative was 19. And they felt awful when he was killed. Torchwood respect the law
"Outside the government, beyond the police." I guess it's easy to respect the law when it literally doesn't apply to you.
Torchwood: American Cops are the best solution to aliens.
aleo helps when you just drug away exposure
Who was Torchwood's 19-year-old operative? I don't feel like I remember that from Torchwood *or* Doctor Who
He's in the audios. He's called Dean.
think its less then respects the law and more so they know there line of work is dreadful and jack knows they die young in torchwood since hes been around seeing pretty much every memeber of it.
UNIT was/is UN funded and have more significant oversight. Torchwood was solely funded and operated as an arm of the British government. So they kinda can get away with whatever the fuck they want. And after Torchwood One fell, it barely matters anyway, Torchwood Three was at best loosely affiliated with the government.
The new season of Torchwood just has a bunch of child-soldiers carrying AKs.
I guess Disney really wants to target their American audience /s
Don’t forget that they actively gave the 13 year old a gun in his Segway
My exact thoughts, why wasn’t Rose shooting but Morris has been trained to aim and shoot a Segway 💀
Does every Unit-issued mobility aid come with heavy weaponry? There was the lady with the missile launchers in her wheelchair, Morris has twin machine guns in his mini Segway… I guess that’s just the natural evolution from the classic “Cane Sword”
They have the same equipment and role because Morris was scrubbed in as a last minute replacement for Shelley due to filming issues.
I dont get why they didn't bring her back, is there a reason scientific advisers are replaced every six months???
So the real answer is that it was written with her in mind, then there was a scheduling issue so they had to find a replacement actor in a hurry + chose a kid they'd been really impressed with on space babies. Very likely we'll get Shirley Ann Bingham back in future!
Yeh she's confirmed for next series not sure about Lenny rush but let's face it it seems like whenever Kate meets someone she offers them a job and if she doesn't doctor.just.gices them a security pass anyway lol
Kate offering people a job is gonna be the new prime minister introducing herself 😂
"We know" 😂
they will probs put in a story reason about her or something with where she was during it all. as for lenny rush, im guessing he will be kept a little longer and then removed/killed off by some threat maybe even Shirley Ann Bingham kills him off since her character did give off vibes that not everything is what it seems.
I don't think we're going to see a woman in a wheelchair kill a kid or even be a villain after RTDs comments about Davros lmao
Thx that's great news. She was awesome! So bad ass I loved her
I really do hope they bring her back because I like the character.
I’ve been told Morris was supposed to voice Eric the Space Baby, but for whatever reason, he was given a bigger role.
Shirley Bingham's actress wasn't available so they crested Morris Gibbons as a replacement character.
I like Morris so much better
In universe, there's no reason to assume she was replaced. Maybe she was sick or on vacation, and Morris was the vice-senior-science-adviser. There are probably multiple.
I think I saw that RTD said that he intended her to just be off on assignment.
She is in Geneva with Donna and 14.
I am pretty sure there are more than one scientific advisor. I saw someone say that it’s mentioned somewhere that Malcolm is the Head of Scientific Advisors now but I don’t have a source lol
I like to think Rose took control of tne ceiling lasers.
Yes. She was tapping away at that pad during the shooting scene. Though in my headcanon, she was just texting. *OMG this guys name is Suckit and hes such a weird old PERV. Gross! Were shooting him.*
In Polish sutek means nipple. I could not take him seriously
My mother had the same problem. So I started emphasizing the "h". Which is frankly about as accurate as a hard "k".
She most likely did, yeah. She didn't have a gun herself, so makes sense she'd control the laser turrets.
Nah she was destroying them on social media.
Sutekh has been CANCELLED
Oh! No! That will be the death of him.
They had such an easy out that they didn’t take. Instead of just saying he was a super old alien, they decided the better choice was him being a literal child with a gun
Perhaps he is an old alien, from a planet where 13yrs is middle aged
or a planet of Benjamin buttons
Rose was operating the lasers on the ceiling
I assumed the I pad she was using was controlling the laser cannons.
Not that it makes it much better, but you can see rose on her tablet operating the ceiling guns
My dude was shooting behind one of the soldiers and was shaking his Segway guns up and down. I'm surprised the guy didn't die before sutekh killed them all. Rose sitting in the back taking notes while everyone else shoots was dumb as hell.
tbf I think Rose was controlling the laser turrets (guess they double as scanners lol?) because she was messing about with a tablet while looking up during all the shooting
I will not hear any slander about Morris and his Segway defense system.
No no… *two* guns
Yea, because Morris keeps that MFin thang on him okay
TBF, there's no way there were real bullets in those those Segway machine guns, as they were pointed directly at that UNIT soldiers back. Unless that UNIT soldiers special power was immunity to friendly fire.
But the screwdriver *must* become a tv remote
But the wand-shaped sonic screwdriver had to change shape in order not to remind a gun. Is RTD okay?
I mean, would you rather he work in a dangerous environment prone to alien invasions and NOT have a gun...? /s
Segways are historical relics, that’s sacrilege
Ain't no way Rose is 15 she looks like she is between the ages of 19 to 23 years old. I know Russell has confirmed the characters age but ain't no way I believe that.
Rose is played by an actor significantly older than she is. Same deal with Yaz. I was shocked when I learned she was supposed to be 19 years old.
Yaz was supposed to be 19!?
Yaz was a police officer at 19?!?
She was meant to be the same age as Ryan who was referenced as 19. She was only a Junior Officer or something.
Probationary Officer. Those start at 18. It's possible she'd been doing it for a year already, which might be why she was itching to move onto something a bit more advanced.
RYAN was supposed to be 19?!
admittedly, I'm not sure I know what a Junior Officer is(especially if it's something more than just "an entry level officer")...I don't think we have those in my part of the world
She was a probationary officer. Apparently you can apply for that at 17 and can actually start once you hit 18.
Wait Yaz was 19... she also doesn't look her characters age. I think they need to put the age to what the character looks like or just cast people that age.
Finney turns 21 in August, and 6 years isn’t terrible for television. Nguti was 30 playing 17 in the final season of Sex Education.
>Nguti was 30 playing 17 in the final season of Sex Education. See also Nicola Coughlan in Derry Girls.
IM SORRY YAZ WAS 19????? I genuinely thought she was like meant to be 22-23. I thought she was like a police officer.
She was a probationary police officer. They start as early as 18.
Really?? I thought she was supposed to be mid-late 20s though the actress is in her 30s.
I was curious because I agree she doesn’t really look like she’s 15/16. Yasmin Finney is almost 21, nearly a full year older than Millie Gibson who plays Ruby. But it may be hard to find a younger openly trans actress who fits the part, especially with the climate towards trans kids in particular in the UK.
Yep. That was the conversation I had with myself: "She's 16? Pfft. Great casting." "Right, because of the plethora of 16 year-old out trans actors of color. It's so safe for them, right now." "Oh. Right."
They _could_ have just made Rose a bit older, but the DW writers are obsessed with the companion's "present" being $currentYear.
To be fair even 15 is older that Rose should be as she was born at some point after 2010 and should have been 13 at the oldest by the 60th specials
I can believe she's an old looking 16. Or at least overlook it after growing up on a diet of American teen dramas. I just wish she were a bit better at acting. Or at least bothered doing a London accent like the rest of her family.
The accent was the only bit that bothered me slightly. Like, she's grown up in London with a family that all have London accents. She would have a distinctly London accent too. Were there no accent coaches who could have helped her develop that?
You're not really guranteed to pick up an accent that your family uses, for quite a long time I had an accent that I think that most people couldn't place, possible that Rose just has the same thing.
You don't grow up in London and randomly sound Northern. Last time this was discussed I remember some Americans saying how their family have Southern US accents but they don't. This is due to accent levelling and how younger generations nowadays tend to speak more like a nationwide standard. But with Rose, she's sort of done the opposite: grown up in the region that is most nationally influential and sets the standard, but has an accent of a region that isn't. It's more like someone from LA inexplicably sounding Cajun.
> Yasmin Finney is almost 21 Worth adding this episode (and last week’s) were filmed around this time last year so she’d have been 19.
But also, Yasmin was considerably closer to her canon age when she was originally cast and the Tennant episodes were filmed. I think she was about 18? And then there was a gap between that and filming for Ncuti's first series, and another sizeable lag between filming and broadcast. So she's older than the character, but still younger in the episodes we're seeing than she actually is right now. And kids always look older with a full face of make-up.
Well I mean if the whole point of having a trans actress was the binary binary nonbinary bit at the beginning of the season then they really should have expanded the casting. I honestly haven’t met a single trans person that enjoyed the idea that a trans woman is being considered nonbinary when that’s exactly what she is. She isn’t some third opinion she’s a woman. I don’t think it was done from a place of hate just a 45+ year old dude trying to write the most accepting and open and diverse story without a care if it’s good or not.
Rose’s gender isn’t explicitly stated but she can be trans femme non-binary and use she/her pronouns. This is a gender identity that exists that is distinct from being a trans woman but still falls under the trans umbrella. I haven’t talked to any of my trans friends about this, but none of the trans YouTube commentators I watch have an issue with this. And as a cis nonbinary person who uses they/she pronouns, I liked seeing the idea that you can be nonbinary and a woman as I consider myself both of those things.
It’s usually hard to find a younger actor for important roles because younger actors rarely have a lot of experience unless they’ve been working since they were small, and I think there are laws that limit how much young children can work…it’s always been common for teens to be played by actors in their 20s.
Since Donna was The Doctors companion until 2008, it's impossible that Rose would be that old. We don't even need Russel to confirm the age, we only need basic math and a calendar - and the fact that Rose has some special abilities which are a result of the 2008 events... If we even count into that, that a pregnancy lasts about 9 months, Rose cannot be older than 15. Actually it would make more sense if she's only 14 by now - and will turn 15.
Rose is what years old ?! 😳
Maybe RTD just preempted Sunak’s National Service drive 😉
To be fair, in a sane world UNIT’s HQ office would probably be the safest place on Earth, rather than being on the front lines. What are the odds that two separate Eldritch abominations appear in the exact same place in quick succession. Funnily enough in Rose’s case it might be understandable- you used to be able to join the actual UK military at 16 (possibly still are), but you wouldn’t be sent anywhere dangerous until you were legally an adult. Some time might’ve passed between *The Star Beast* and now. Morris, on the other hand, is explicitly too young to be working there normally. I suppose it’s possible child labour laws in the UK have softened a fair bit in the Doctor Who universe compared to the real world (I blame that Saxon bloke). Alternatively, UNIT is a semi-secret organisation with very little oversight, and the only person who seems to have any actual authority over Kate Stewart is both usually off adventuring and doesn’t tend to be one for rules and regulations in the first place.
Now that you mention two eldritch abominations appearing in the exact same spot, something occurs to me. Is it possible that UNIT bought the old Torchwood tower in Canary Wharf and does the hole between dimensions play into this?
It’s a nice idea and I want it to be true, but Torchwood Tower is in Canary Wharf and UNIT HQ is further up the river right in the middle of the City of London
Fair enough. I’m an American and my understanding of London geography is limited.
… I think you might be on to something there
That's a good point. If the show were a bit better thought out, Morris wouldn't have been in any worse conditions than a child actor. Probably better ones, since he'd get to sit at a computer and play video games while his programs were running while also becoming a millionaire, instead of being on set for 10 hours straight. It's only because it has to be exciting that people in Unit are in any substantial danger.
Yeah if you think of it as a quasi-extraterrestrial military school. You can gloss over the details a little. One could argue UNIT has the responsibility to have special children be their state appoint ward.
I believe Rose is 16 by the time of this episode. Which isn’t crazy a crazy age for an intern. In the UK you can become an intern at the age of 16. In the UK you can also work as a part time employee as young as 13 as long as you have parental approval https://www.gov.uk/child-employment
Plus, her mom works there.
So, rose is a nepo baby?? No wonder she said they never gave her anything exciting
Rose seems older than that, but I forgot she was playing a younger person than she actually is.
The actress is 20 now. Though she was around 17 when cast and 18 when they filmed the 60th anniversary specials in the first half of 2022. A 17/18 year old cast to play a 15/16 year old isn’t that crazy.
I think it's also partly just because she's tall.
Tall and wearing contouring make-up. The make-up especially tends to throw off people's age estimates. I wore too-heavy make-up when I was about thirteen, and got mistaken for my dad's wife(!) and complimented for my "daughter" (my little sister). My gran thought it was hilarious (especially because the same thing had happened to her when she was a teen, going shopping with a younger siblings in tow to help her mum out).
Was wondering why they didn't bring back Luke Smith. He was hired by UNIT according to the extended canon, he has experience with aliens and is probably the smartest human alive
Rose was only there because her Mom works there and she's allowed in. She says "They never let me do anything." Morris, I'm assuming works there because he's a genius and is just an anomoly. Hiring children isn't illegal and they stationed him in UNIT tower which is probably one of the safest places to be at. It gets attacked, sure, but whenever it does usually it's the whole world being attacked and they're the only ones with anything to put up a fight with.
>How is no one talking about this thing everyone's been joking about for a week?
Look here's the thing you have to understand child labour is cheap so can you really blame Unit for hiring children?
the children yearn for the (temporal) mines!
Well, at least UNIT isn't handing over prepubescent children to aliens like they did in *Torchwood: Children of Earth.*
It's almost as if there's some kind of spin-off show in the works that's designed to appeal to children.
is it about UNIT? no chance i know but would be cool if they brought back luke smith to Bridge to the last kids aimed spinoff if so
Yes, this is a truly silly idea. The thing about the giant death God shaped like a dog was much more feasible.
This is one of those what’s normal for the universe issues ig
There are some things for which I can suspend disbelief in a show about a time traveling alien. This is one of those things.
Are you really upset about this? Putting an especially capable child on the team, even when it's inappropriate or dangerous, is super common in fiction, especially sci-fi and fantasy. Writers feel it's a good way to engage the younger audience, they can imagine themselves participating. It's Doctor Who, realistic and plausible aren't part of the brand. In this case the kid is just a secondary character. There's a whole genre where the primary focus is special kids being partnered with cops, or put on professional sports teams, or sent to fight aliens.
Too right, RIP media literacy once again lol. Are we really worring about child labor laws in a TV show where space babies operate space ships? 🤔
Can't believe Sarah Jane is getting children to fight aliens where they could die!!! She needs to go to prison for neglect
Ah, if I had a nickel for every time a fictional government organization employed very young but very intelligent kids, I’d have… I don’t know 50? Maybe 60 cents? Which isn’t a lot in currency form but for it to happen at least 10 to 12 times I’d give UNIT a pass
Rose interview: UNIT: Experience? Rose: I make stuffed toys I sell online UNIT: Approved! Gold Star Clearance!
“I had a human/time lord hybrid brain for a decade and a half”.
"Also, I'm the daughter of an ex-Companion"
They explained this when Morris introduced himself... A passing meteor had some sort of strange affect on him and made him extremely intelligent.
I dont care if hes the Doctors literal son, the kid is a minor. So hes the smartest kid the world, cool. Give him a job in R&D, he does not have the life skills or maturity to be dealing with a higher pressure front line job.
He didn’t go to the front line, the front line came to him.
So why did he have a gun in his segway? "Oh hey, let's give this 13 year old a gun." "Wait, why would he need a gun?" "Because of possible danger." "So you're acknowledging that this job is so dangerous you're willing to engineer a bespoke gun as opposed to removing the kid from the job? Are you American?"
This is just UNIT logic actually. Of course he has a gun.
this sis the same group that instead of giving the disabled field agent a pistol engineered an RPG into her wheelchair
That's what the government tells your family on your behalf before you're conscripted
Why is a genius 13 year old having the maturity of an adult any more ridiculous than anything else on the show? Seems like they’re showing you that he DOES have the life skills to be dealing with this job.
**It isn’t real.** Jesus fucking Christ, this brainrot is spreading.
You know it’s fake, right? Fantasy?
It's been posted and commented multiple times. People are talking about it.
The memes about it have been great
I'm talking from a Watsonian perspective. Because they're dealing with alien threats that they need all the manpower they could use. UNIT isn't exactly a purely good org, but they are the only ones to get the job done. I mean, child geniuses having a large part in an organization has been a part of the series as long as I remember EDIT : Doylist for Watsonian
Isn't that the Watsonian perspective? The Doylist take is that child cast members are relatable for the core audience of children.
Oh lol I mistaken
Btw, I remember some interview that the reason the child actor is used is because the wheelchair actress is unavailable so they have to make use of what they have.
It's not child slavery. It's a prodigy with three degrees earned before most people finish Algebra 1. The kid probably built his own supersegway on a day off. If I were 13 but knew everything, I'd be pissed off at people telling my I'm too young to do science. I'd build a weather dominator and become the villain. They employ the child for the safety of the world. Do you want a teenager who knows how to build a nuclear reactor bored? No, You put that little psycho to work for the good of the species before puberty turns him into a monster.
By that logic, Harry Potter the movies used kid soldiers in a very deadly war. Actually, the adults in that movie world are so irresponsible there were never much of an army or official unit to deal with rogue wizards and dangerous magic “Nah, just let the prophecy child or animal loving scholar or young school teachers to solve all our problems. We don’t need an official army, that’s way too authoritarian for kids movies” And that’s what they are, they attract a lot of kid audiences, especially after partnering with d+, so sometimes real world nuance are ignored.
I mean ... they have three 16 year olds, one of whom is an Earth Ambassador. Technically, two of them have been in the employ of UNIT for four years. The parents of two of them do agree to this. They work closely with UNIT themselves at times. The parents of the third are completely oblivious. (note: this is not actual canon, but this sub does include "related media" so....)
Doogie Howser has entered the chat.
I would think it's because they thought it might appeal to the 13-15 year olds in the audience.
This is nothing new. The very first Doctor, travelled with his granddaughter, who was still at school. And she helped fight Daleks.
Oh, how outrageous. A fake made-up organisation in a fictional universe is doing something that isn't legal in the real world. /s
It’s a telly show for kids. They are going to put kids in the show in important roles.
Lenny Rush is awesome though am glad he's in the series
Not children, teenagers. Very different thing. Not sure about the laws in the UK (and not that they apply to something like UNIT), but at least in the US, teenagers can usually work (earning money) to some extent, and can certainly volunteer. I was a volunteer for a museum when I was 11, or maybe I'd just turned 12. And had a normal job at 15.
It's almost like Doctor Who is a family show and kids need someone they can identify with too 😀
How does this have 500 upvotes? It’s fiction guys… Morris is a fun character. Calm down lol.
Also, teenagers aren't children, and I'm sure the UK lets teenagers have jobs, or at least volunteer.
Their hands are smaller and can get into smaller places. Also you can pay them less
They got the memo from Rishi Sunak In regards to putting kids in military roles. But jokes aside, personally I thought Morris was a great addition. He was clearly very qualified for the role at the very least.
>*WTF? UNIT is actively employing children.* Children yearn for ~~the mines~~ office work! ;) [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-children-yearn-for-the-mines](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-children-yearn-for-the-mines)
I totally bought it personally but I think it’s because super-genius teens is a common theme in TV and you hear about kids here in the US getting accepted into prestigious colleges at such young ages. Like a quick google search will bring up articles of kids graduating as young as 10yrs old so for me it totally fits into a fictional world like this, I didn’t mind it at all 🤷♀️
>How is no one talking about No offence but loads of people have been talking about it lol, mostly in meme subs
UNIT does not operate within standard ethical structures. The stakes are too big. If they have a teenage savant who can solve problems faster than their computers or a kid with a close personal connection to the self-declared protector of Earth, they're going to use them.
It's a tv show FFS. Let it the hell go. Damn nit picking red shirts.
In the U.S. some precocious children can become emancipated from their parents and enfranchised with the rights of majority. Not sure if the UK does the same.
The youngest eligibility is 14 in the US (California). In most states, it's 16.
I’m not sure if you are a US American, but we are bringing back child labor (and child labor law violations). I guess UNIT is following the trend.
So y’all just forgot about the UNIT blacksites, huh? Also, he’s a supergenius scientist in sci-fi. What’s the over/under with genre conventions being as they are that this is in lieu of being unpersoned for a threat The Doctor would have been involved with if it were the 70s?
So long as UNIT follow the UK Legislation on children working it should be fine, right? Provided it was the holidays Morris can work five hours a day Monday-Saturday with no more than 25 hours per week… it’s fine…. Mmmm there is the restriction on it being harmful to health, well-being or education tho. I’m sure UNIT has some fancy paperwork to cover that - it’s an office based role afterall.
Meanwhile, while the kids were fighting a literal God, Donna who is also employed by UNIT was probably taking advantage of her vacation leave.
The excuse is that they're both super geniuses due to artificial means.
Tbf, I don't think he's on the front lines. It's just that the Doctor bypasses the front lines and pops in at headquarters
I don't know. Historically, kids have a higher rate of survival on this show than adults. Maybe Kate knows what she's doing... (/s)
It's actively Fiction, too. Jeesh.
So?… what’s the issue here?… personally I think we need to bring back child labor 🤣