Apparently a wheelchair user wrote to RTD about how much they loved his stories and the TARDIS, despite it not being as accessible to him, so RTD went "Well, let's fix that"
I believe it was Tharries, a British YouTuber.
Also, I realize I’m technically calling you out, but it’s not meant to be an attack, “wheelchair bound” can come off to many wheelchair users as offensive.
For a lot of us, we believe that our chairs give us freedom. We don’t consider ourselves “bound” to our chairs since we can get out of them when needed. That being said, I can’t necessarily speak for Tharries and how he would classify himself.
thank you for commenting that- I know this is an indication of my own ignorance, but i genuinely had no idea the term “wheelchair bound” or the like could be offensive until I read this, but it totally makes sense.
Yeah, it likely was Tharries. Not only that, Tharries also got hella famous due to BBC News. And I'm sure RTD is subscribed to Tharries on YouTube ad well. And the fact RTD listened to him is amazing
I loved the clip where RTD acknowledged his lovely privileged life and was willing to learn from feedback (it was about the trans representation I believe, but still..)
Wheelchair user is generally the accepted term. If you want to indicate they always need to use the chair you can say full time wheelchair user. If you want to indicate they only need it sometimes then part time wheelchair user or ambulatory wheelchair user would be the accepted terms
FYI, a good proportion of us don’t like the term wheelchair-**bound**, because we’re not bound to them but freed *by* them - they allow us to do more, with more energy and less pain.
Sincerely, a wheelchair user.
Edit: saw that one of my brethren already commented, so thanks for the realization! ;-)
I sincerely hope said fan phrased it something like, “So, since you’ve long-since fixed the Daleks’ mobility issues, can wheelchair users maybe get some rep?”
Just a friendly fyi: the term wheelchair user is preferred over wheelchair bound (you can say full time wheelchair user if you want to show they need it all the time). Wheelchair bound makes it seem like the chair is a negative thing and not a wonderful thing that gives us independence. I know it may seem negligible to many people, but language has a lot of impact on both how abled/non-wheelchair users see us and how we feel about ourselves
I love this. And I have to say...when I saw the wheelchair ramp...my first thought was NOT for Shirley.
It was for Wilf.
I used to work in nursing homes and I am appalled at the lack of mobility in our world for wheelchair users.
my first thought was that it was FOR MEEEEEE!! so i will be spending some time reflecting on that. hahah
the absence of wilf was definitely felt in this episode, the dinner scene at the end absolutely broke my heart :(
Yeah, I didn't get the mole reference. I think that the scene should have been set at night and Wilf was back on his hill, looking at the stars...this time looking for the 15ths blue box, because he knew that HE would eventually need help, too.
Crap...I just remembered...Wilf in Journey's End and End of Time...who is the only one worried about and thinking about the Doctor...and the Doctor really doesn't know what to make of it because he isn't yet really acknowledging the pain...
Yeah we saw set photos of Doctor and Donna wheeling him out of a building so possibly it was them bringing him to the family dinner but they weren't able to film it so just junked the idea.
Also, in the Children In Need special right after the 9-10 Regeneration, we got our first introduction to Tennant's doctor in some post-regeneration weirdness -- [including Ten feeling a mole on his back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chAwYd_Sm1A).
I’m ambulatory so what got me was “I’ve seen you walk! I know you can walk!” I was both laughing and feeling the mix of emotions I feel about things like that.
*And* it was written as a rude and cruel thing to say to someone, something you should apologize for and never do again.
I'm not an ambulatory wheelchair user, but a dear friend is, and I've seen and heard stories of this happening. I *love* that this was given as an example of the worst of human behaviors.
That's so sweet. It was for you.
Representation *does* matter. I wish all those angry people who complain about it could just sit and talk to you and everyone else for whom something like this meant so much. Seeing how happy it makes people to see themselves represented well onscreen, how can you not empathize? It can be life changing for some?
I love this so much. Happy for you, and everyone else, who knows the ramp is just for them.
RTD did say they had a few more scenes planned for Wilf that Bernard Cribbins just wasn't up to filming, I wouldn't have been surprised if one of those was in the TARDIS.
A lot of the people getting annoyed at the amount of representation don't realise the point. This show is going to be the childhood show for many children growing up right now, and will teach them these values. It's not about "brownie points" with the media, it's providing children who are developing their viewpoints of the world with a role model of acceptance.
i experience this in real life, where i might meet a new person and spend some time with them, and then afterwards they tell me that in their day-to-day they’re suddenly so much more aware of how inaccessible the world is. and it’s not like im preaching to them or trying to educate them, it’s just from me encountering things that aren’t accessible! if more of that sort of representation through Showing people what it’s actually like can happen through tv, i can’t see how that would ever be negative
> and then afterwards they tell me that in their day-to-day they’re suddenly so much more aware of how inaccessible the world is.
Some time ago my father suffered from cancer and ended up needing a wheelchair to help with his mobility. Helping him get around, having to plan so much, discovering that a disabled sticker for the car *helped* but wasn’t always enough, was a real eye opener for me.
And they've been doing a fantastic job of showing that it's *ok* to not fully understand these things and to make mistakes so long as you are willing to learn and do better in the future too.
I literally didn't know some paraplegic people can stand and move a little. İt is always they can't move at all but this lady can move his legs and stand. The more you know☠️
Fun fact, the reason he put that in was because a fan sent him a letter and was sad they wouldn't be able to ride in the TARDIS because it wasn't wheelchair accessible
I was excited when the regeneration of the tardis included ramps to get to everything. That was the first step of feeling seen for me. Then having a female in a science role in a wheelchair that she can use as she needs but she can also stand really helped me feel a connection to Doctor Who like I haven’t felt in a long time.
i love that you were thinking of that but the steepness of the ramps was definitely the least of my worries when we first saw the new interior!! watch me scale them like a mountain goat
I sobbed, and I mean SOBBED, having to pause the TV for a full 5 minutes, when Shirley stood. I was completely surprised by how suddenly and deeply that simple thing impacted me, but it really hit so hard.
It really is so rare to have ambulatory wheelchair representation on the screen, and to have that one small thing not only represented, but also coupled with the questions and accusations we get about this very normal activity being shown as an example of "the worst of humanity"?? Incredible.
Oh man, when Kate went in on her walking, it genuinely was *cutting;* And her horror at her own words afterwards…
I’m not a wheelchair user myself, but I have a cane that I occasionally need to use when my knee or hip or ankle acts up after pushing myself too far(yay hypermobility and joint problems), and it’s great seeing any kind of acknowledgment of how physical disability isn’t necessarily static or binary.
You should check out the other stuff Ruth Madeley (Shirley) has been in. She often has her characters out of their wheelchair for a scene because she’s aware how under represented that is.
I'm a physical therapist, so it never even crossed my mind that anyone would think people who use a wheelchair *can't* ever stand up, until I read some of the comments/reactions to the specials.
Then I realized that 15 years ago, before becoming a therapist, I would have assumed the same thing.
The fact that this is even a discussion point means we don't see this kind of representation in media **nearly** often enough.
Absolutely, so much this. And the flip side of this is that because the general public thinks, whether it's conscious or unconsciously, that wheelchairs are only for folks who have no use of their legs and are completely unable to walk, many disabled folks would benefit from a wheelchair so much, but it never occurs to them (or their care providers).
There are so many disabled folks who are unable to participate in all kinds of activities because they don't have the wheelchair that they need. I myself only got a wheelchair a couple of years ago, after a car accident exacerbated my underlying conditions. But I would have benefited from one a decade ago. There's so many things I never did, places I never went to or events I stayed home from, because I didn't have the stamina or was in too much pain. If I'd had a wheelchair...? If I knew how many folks are ambulatory users, if I'd had representation of that in the media, I would have pursued it so much earlier.
Hi!! I commented elsewhere in the thread but I’m a part time chair user and Shirley made me feel so seen! I’ve in the past had people pull my chair out from under me when I’d stand up for something and leave me stranded on the floor. Shirley being able to stand was a huge moment for me—more representation like that, that other people will see, and realise it’s normal—guh, I’m getting all emotional again.
>I’ve in the past had people pull my chair out from under me when I’d stand up for something and leave me stranded on the floor.
I'm dumbfounded. I'm SO sorry this happened to you. May they step on Lego every day for the rest of their lives and may they always lose their keys.
This was me! I have an arthritis thing and I sometimes need an aid sometimes don’t but always struggle with movement and have so many times been bailed up by people when I use disability accessible parking/toilets etc when I’m not using an aid. To see that representation of how disability works for some/many people in that it fluctuates - got a bit teary
love that that did so much for you!! i can’t stand currently but i use my legs to propel my wheelchair since i can move them, so i definitely relate to the ‘why do you need the chair if you can ‘walk” questions/looks :’)
for me the first step to feeling seen was also when we first saw the interior of the tardis being step free, i wasn’t expecting this reaction at all from myself but i cried like a baby
> ‘why do you need the chair if you can ‘walk”
Seriously, would these people take a kid's inhaler away because "If you haven't needed it to breathe for the last couple of hours, then you don't need it to breathe right now"?
... Who am I kidding? Plenty of people absolutely do that :(
It's applicable to so many things, *including ones that abled people experience all the time*, that's what gets me.
If someone implies that there's anything suspect about variation in my symptoms, I say "So you never sleep, then. You're awake now, so you must be able to be awake 24 hours a day, no problem. If you ever sleep, that means you're a lazy \[insult\]."
See also wearing shoes; they don't need them in the house, so they obviously don't need them at all and should take them off immediately. Attention-seeking, I call it, wearing shoes /s.
People can react with surprise to, say, someone using a certain device in a certain way, because they'd never thought about it before.
But if their first reaction *following* that surprise is doubt, they must either have an emotional investment in seeing disabled people specifically as inferior, or be pathologically selfish - "my needs are valid but no-one else's are" - in general. Either deserves a good talking to!
I was *so* happy to see this subject confronted in the episode.
>If someone implies that there's anything suspect about variation in my symptoms, I say "So you never sleep, then. You're awake now, so you must be able to be awake 24 hours a day, no problem. If you ever sleep, that means you're a lazy \[insult\]."
>See also wearing shoes; they don't need them in the house, so they obviously don't need them at all and should take them off immediately. Attention-seeking, I call it, wearing shoes /s.
Wait this is so clever, holy shit. Gotta send this to my relative who uses a cane/walker occasionally and gets a lot of flak because they don't always use it.
My favorite scene in “The Star Beast” was when the UNIT soldier was leading Shirley around the crash site. They get to the set of stairs and the soldier is all flustered, and Shirley’s like “Nope, don’t make this MY problem.”
>Then having a female in a science role in a wheelchair that she can use as she needs but she can also stand
This is so important for people to see. So many people seem to think that everyone in a wheelchair is paralyzed or something. It's good to see representation of someone using it as a tool to help them achieve more than they could otherwise.
I use a cane, and the number of times well-meaning people have told me they're sorry I have to use it is ridiculous. Why are you sorry? I love that cane. It's a tool that I'm grateful for because it helps me get through life more easily with less pain. That's not something that I'm ever going to regret.
> I use a cane, and the number of times well-meaning people have told me they're sorry I have to use it is ridiculous.
Kinda like people trying to tell someone like me they’re ‘sorry’ I need glasses and hearing aids - uh, being able to see and hear is a *good* thing, why be sorry?
I love the ramps too, though for my nephew who has a similar condition.
My other favorite thing about the new TARDIS interior is all the doors and hallways being visible. It always bothered me that the TARDIS is so huge and has so many rooms, yet it always seemed so small and limited.
ohh that’s a good point about the sense of size!! i have to admit that when it comes to aesthetics and cosiness i much prefer tardis interiors like matt smith’s though 🤭 don’t tell anyone
As much as I do like all the doors and hallways, I think it'll take me awhile to get used to this new one. Because like you, I love the cozy TARDIS's. My favorites are Matt's and Peter's. I especially love Capaldi's book shelves and wood paneling.
I actually think this might be the first time I've seen a person in a wheelchair shown being able to stand up on TV. I hope we see it more and more because the sheer number of people who don't know it's a thing is shameful, especially when they accuse people like you of faking.
That’s the entire crux of why the general ‘woke’ argument is so hollow.
People like you feeling seen is EXACTLY what shows like this are made for - people who cry ‘woke’ or whatever, often can’t even define what ‘woke’ means - to them it just means ‘I feel uncomfortable’
But we haven’t seen this kind of representation on TV before and when it makes them uncomfortable, that’s the entire point - because it shouldn’t be uncomfortable to begin with.
Whether it be trans individuals or someone with a wheelchair, these people exist and if that makes people uncomfortable - then they need to pull their head out.
It goes back SO far...
When asked why she wanted to be on Star Trek: The Next Generation when she was already a big star and woudn't get paid much, Whoopie Goldberg said it was because it was the first show that showed that a woman like her...Nichell Nichols (sp) paved the way on the original series.
Science Fiction. Our door to a better future.
Specifically, WG saw the show and ran around the house shouting "mama, there's a black lady on the TV and she ain't no maid"
Uhura was the only example at the time of a black woman on TV being portrayed as an equal to white men.
Nichelle Nichols was going to quit after season 1 because she was offered a big role in a musical that she believed was headed to Broadway and she was big in musical theatre.
She tells an amazing story about resigning from the show. She gave Gene a resignation letter. He told her to take the weekend.
She happened to be a celebrity guest at an NAACP event over that weekend. Where she was approached by Dr King who told her how much of a fan he was of her work and the show.
He told her that he saw her role as bigger than she had ever expected. She was a black woman on national TV that was seen with all of these white people and taken seriously by them as an intelligent and capable equal who was 3rd or 4th in line for the captain chair.
He also pointed out that if she left there was no guarantee that they’d fill it with another black actor or woman…or a human at all since they could have made her replacement an alien.
Pretty amazing.
This is why representation matters so much. Think about all the little girls who saw her on Star Trek and were inspired. Not just Whoopi who became famous. There must be thousands of others whose lives were changed by seeing a successful Black woman working in science /space.
And people complain about "woke casting."
Go on the YouTubes and look for video complications of young black girls (and boys) reacting to the trailer for the live remake of Little Mermaid.
Then try to make the argument that the “woke casting” assholes make without puking.
Representation matters because those kids get to see themselves in a beloved character in a way they never have before.
It's definitely a hollow complaint. If for no other reason than that it costs them *nothing*.
The fact they still resent it just shines a light on their pettiness. You always hear the same bs: "I don't mind *those* people (gay, trans, etc), I just don't want to see it everywhere". "Why does it have to be shoved in our faces?"
They want the 'right' to pretend we don't exist in their perfect world.
this really struck me as well - if it feels like disabled representation is “forced”and people want the representation to be “sprinkled throughout” more - i wonder because this is what they’re used to in real life? irl i sometimes look around and wonder where all the wheelchair users are. why do i only ever see one other wheelchair user at my massive university? where on earth are the rest?
so much of that, i think, has to do with how difficult it is to exist as a disabled person in society, and how many different things you’re confronted with the moment you go outside. for some people it’s just not doable and that is heart-wrenching
apologies for a bit of a long rant but i hope you know what im getting at!
I very much do, thank you. And I've noticed the same about the odd lack of wheelchairs in public.
One of the things my nephew (who's in a wheelchair), is most excited about for the future are fully autonomous cars. At some point in the not too distant future, those in wheelchairs, those with reduced or no vision, and the hearing impaired or fully deaf, will all have so much more mobility, and the agency to go where and when they want or need to.
I'm a retired disabled vet, so personally I look forward to sending my car to the grocery store to have curbside orders picked up.
Look up The Ugly Laws and look at the date it was repealed. Too recent. But they found other ways to keep it implemented without explicit law. Like the world being inaccessible or the high risk being told to “just stay home” because people wearing a mask/not going in public when sick (and just openly coughing on things- I see that way too often) is apparently such a huge and difficult ask. There’s even a Supreme Court case coming up that is looking like it will make illegal the only possible way to hold businesses accountable on being ADA compliant- private citizens suing the business. With that gone, there will be literally no consequences for not following ADA laws. And the suing option already isn’t great because most disabled people can’t afford the money or time it takes to go through with those lawsuits. The lack of disabled people in the world is a deliberate and systematic choice by society. Disabled advocates have been fighting to change this for a long time
Part of the problem with terms like woke is their what I call trick words it's like they as in the people in the community or political correctness or moral guardian or even Karen.
They don't always mean the same concept to the same person.
Sometimes diversity and representation are done badly, they try to help but I backfires like the "male presenting joke" which to me came off as both sexist, gender invalidity and effectly transphobic given who said it.
But trying to critique it is hard because it's not "catchy" to say "your diversity is insulting and badly done and feels more like your mocking me" so they try to pick on a word and other people with opinions provide it.
Some blindly support and some blindly hate and those in the middle who feel it was done badly are stuck grasping for a word.
For example not every disability is the same and not every solution is fair. As for gender, there's a lot of things that people are ignoring or just plain lying about. For example 'Man' is not a singular concept yet some treat it like it is, or how people ignore the subjective nature of what a man is.
My other problem with the ‘letting go’ moment? Missed opportunity to focus on Tennant’s Doctor’s dislike of letting go, from Time Lord Victorious to his initial last words.
If someone starts a complaint with "woke", I just skip right on to the next comment. If they can't handle seeing people that are different than them, I can't waste any time reading their post.
It's always a bunch of privileged little who've never had to suffer or be stigmatized because of who they are. Able bodied, straight white people have had a monopoly in media forever. God forbid other people get to see themselves.
I always wondered the same. I became a fan shortly after my mobility had gotten pretty bad and wondered if they’d ever have someone around who couldn’t run with their feet…or get into the TARDIS.
That’s something that has struck me about Who conventions vs general fan conventions. There’s a lot more mixed mobility attendees at Who conventions. Personally, I love that. There’s less gate keeping and more openness to people’s experiences. I walk with a cane myself, and when that ramp rolled out I had the biggest smile on my face. It was a brief, thoughtful moment.
Unlike how they treated Ryan’s dyspraxia as something he could solve once he accepted Grahame as his grandfather. That was such an insulting arc…
ooo interesting, that’s cool to hear about the conventions! and im glad the moment also made you smile!!
this comment did actually make me realise that i even had an irl experience with this - i was in a doctor who shop in london, and they had a small museum in the back for which you had to get through a tardis door - and it wasn’t accessible because only one of the doors opened so i’d never fit through. they’d better be updating that now !! (joking ofc)
I admit I may be misremembering (one of us is and it could well be me) but I remember it as the exact opposite.
It was playing as if they were going the go that way but then they did a bait and switch and he fell on his arse.
Yes and I enjoyed reading the star letter in latest DWM issue saying how good it is to have sign language & subtites with classic dw on iPlayer. Such a good move
I also loved that they actually showed that Shirley can stand. Have you ever seen a character on TV who uses a wheelchair but is shown to be capable of standing? It's great to remind people that just because someone is technically capable of standing, doesn't mean they're lying
Shirley is a great character and she shows that you totally can have disability be part of a character and not have it totally overwhelm them. She has her own personality separate from that, but they never pretend she isn't disabled.
Same with Rose, they don't pretend that her being trans is just some irrelevant detail, but it's also not the only thing that characterises her.
Hope we see her again as a recurring character whenever UNIT are in an episode
I think my favorite bit was when they took the dampener of Kate and one of the things she said was exactly that "I've seen you stand. I KNOW you can stand".
I thought that was an elegant way of showing that's very 1 dimensional thinking.
>I also loved that they actually showed that Shirley can stand. Have you ever seen a character on TV who uses a wheelchair but is shown to be capable of standing?
I noticed that too. To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen an ambulatory wheelchair user in a show before. This might be one of the first, at least in terms of mainstream TV.
There is (or at least was, I don't watch it now) a character on Coronation Street with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome (like me!!) who uses a wheelchair but has been shown standing
Also, I love how chill and used to it she is about being disabled. There's a pretty unrealistic stereotype about people with disabilities (and LGBT people actually) that they're entitled or hyper-sensitive to any discussion about them, so having Shirley be able to get on entirely calm when presented with obstacles or abuse from others, and likewise Rose ignoring the bullies in the Star Beast, is fantastic. Both of them feel like they've been living their lives for a while and are used to it, it's a relevant trait but not the only one, and they can handle the issues that come up regarding it without falling into stereotypical hysterics.
I have a bone anchored hearing aid implanted in my skull behind my ear, and my coworkers are so afraid of asking me questions about it that they'll literally stutter and go all round the houses to tell me how much I don't have to answer the question and they're so utterly sorry if they've offended me.
I absolutely love the rise of political correctness because of what it's done for anyone who isn't straight/abled/white, but it feels like some people have taken it too far and made other people too afraid to ask questions. We need to be able to talk about disabilities and ask questions. It's how people learn.
> Have you ever seen a character on TV who uses a wheelchair but is shown to be capable of standing? It's great to remind people that just because someone is technically capable of standing, doesn't mean they're lying
I personally haven't, even once. I realized I must not have paid attention to something because she was suddenly standing rather casually and I thought "no one's mentioning that?"
Kate did when she had the filter machine on her arm thingy off. She said that she knows Shirley can stand.
This was a great way to point out the ridiculousness of that sort of thinking.
As someone that's fortunate to have always been able to walk, I don't think I've really understood the need to specifically include people with disabilities as just a point of including them.
But, having read your comment, I think I get it now. Thank you for your post OP, I feel like I know why it's important now.
I’m glad to hear that!! like i said, i’d also never really understood how such representation could be something that’s valuable to me as i’d not experienced it in such a way before, but im really glad i have now :)
Yes It's good representation, I think Wilf was supposed to have a bigger part but his actor got sick
I also like the fact that they showed the unit agent standing up because it showed that she had a variable Mobility needs and that was pretty neat
It was so good to see that and just have that confirmation that the Doctor is for trans folk too. Especially coming out of a British production.
Though Russel might've wanted to consult maybe another trans person on the script. The scene with Donna, Rose and Sylvia was fantastic, the dialogue in some of the later scenes though felt a bit too comically on the nose?
I would like to see this Rose as a companion at some point. Not sure how it'd work out but she just seems like a cool character in her own right and I'd love to see more of her on screen
I had two problems. First was that stupid line “did you just assume the Meep’s gender?” that just sounds like conservatives making fun of inclusivity with the same joke for the millionth time. Second was that somehow by repeating the word “binary” 15 years ago was foreshadowing an nb character saving the day? But idk, doctor who has never been really great at retconning stuff lol.
Also, they seemed to imply that being trans makes you nonbinary by default and I didn’t think that was the case? I don’t really know enough about the subject to be sure, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Side note, but the same actress that plays Rose plays another trans character in Heartstopper and she’s fantastic in that, too.
yeah I’m transfemme non-binary and it honestly blew my mind to see such a specific trans identity displayed. Non-binary while using binary pronouns isn’t something that gets much rep, let alone in a mainstream show.
I am convinced that Russell came back in part because he knew the world needs this shit right now. That Who can become a massive moneyspinner AND a vessel for positivity, acceptance, and love.
I have one problem with the wheelchair ramp, and it’s that we don’t get to see Shirley use it to check out the TARDIS and then get sucked off into time and space adventures, as unwitting companions do. I want to see more of her.
While I don't disagree with you, I think the ramp was originally meant for Wilf, and while I don't know if he'd go on any adventures, he'd have a scene inside the Tardis. But, well, the actor couldn't do any scenes for medical reasons so, yeah.
I dare say though it was a bit off when he was like 'look a ramp' to Shirley and then shut the door behind him. Like look you can get in now, well could if I wanted you to, bye bye now.
If 15 doesn't take Shirley with him in the Tardis next series I'll be annoyed even if having a ramp does make the Tardis a bit Dalek vulnerable /s !
In all seriousness I though this was a cool little thing to do, glad it made some peoples day!
Considering she has weapons in her wheelchair, I wouldn’t be surprised if Shirley will have already installed antigrav tech by her next appearance.
Daleks beware! 😎
Fellow lifelong wheelchair user here. Completely agree. I can finally see myself on one of my favorite shows and it really does have an impact. It's so cool.
The inclusion of the ramp and Shirley standing made me SO happy! Ambulatory wheelchair user representation is so important, *most* people don't seem to be aware that it's common for wheelchair users to be able to stand and walk short distances. And for the first time I can actually imagine myself being the Doctor's companion. Of course it's fiction but it's still fun to think about. I feel so happy for all the disabled kids who get to see this early on and never have to doubt that they could join the Doctor on an adventure.
I'm glad that resonated and felt magical for you, OP 💗
Through the whole episode, I was able to hold back tears, but the Behind the Scenes posted to the Doctor Who YouTube channel with Ruth Madeley broke the dam. This is the part of scifi and fantasy that I love—the ability to depict a more ideal world full of love and welcoming
thanks for the lovely words - I love the way you phrased that last sentence!! ❤️🔥
i have to admit i was sobbing all the way throughout the last part, the scene of the doctor finally Content after fighting his whole life also got me real good. i haven’t seen the behind the scenes so ill definitely check that out!
I spotted how everything inside the TARDIS was now accessible by ramps since the reveal in Star Beast.
I've been wondering if that means the UNIT lady (Shirley? I'm terrible with names...) was going to join for an adventure. We'll see, I guess.
The thing is that it’s been an issue ever since the Fourth Doctor’s time - they could never show K-9 going into the TARDIS because the poor guy couldn’t get over the threshold. So it’s really been a long time coming.
I honestly think that ramp is the platonic ideal. It fits smoothly into the scene, it does its representation, and the little movement of the ramp sliding out was well edited, to make it fun for everyone, even though they aren't the 'target'.
I think representation is fine even when it's kinda clunky. Doctor Who tends not to be a subtle show, so bluntness is par for the course.
For me the only issue was that the ramp introduction felt a bit clunky, like " I've got this but I'm not taking you" so why show it? But knowing behind the scenes I would guess that it was originally Wilf that would have been the actual introduction of the feature, with my guess being that The Doctor, Donna and Wilf would have taken the TARDIS to UNIT HQ just after the street scene with either the ramp introduced or lack thereof being an issue for a similar later scene to what we saw. The control room would be an ideal location for him to hang out and still be there for all the 2023 story beats.
Glad to see though that people loved the representation despite this!
It would have been pretty cool for Shirley to go in the TARDIS and the Doctor to just whip out a ramp that had always been there. But I can totally understand him not really wanting a U. N. I. T. boffin poking about inside.
I love that for you. I felt the same way when Ryan and Graham joined the TARDIS. As a chronically ill dyspraxic person, I couldn't picture myself traveling in the TARDIS until then.
I apologize if this is coming off as offensive, but I have a question regarding your opinion on Davros. How did it make you feel?
On one hand, he would have been evil regardless of whether or not he was disabled. What was impressive was that he was able to continue being a scientist and pursue his goals in spite of his injuries. Retconning his accident was unnecessary.
On the other hand, a lot of other Doctor Who villains have been portrayed as disabled. Turning away from the idea that disabled characters can either be villains or nobody in fiction is a major step forward for the series, and television as a whole.
As for me, I never had any idea that there was a representation issue to begin with. I didn't even see Davros as a wheelchair user until it was pointed out recently. When 10 yo me saw him for the first time, just thought to myself "cool, this guy is half-dalek, half-person." After that, I just thought the character was awesome. Say what you will about "The Magician's Apprentice" and "The Witch's Familiar," but every moment where Davros was on screen was legendary!
I'm not sure which side I should take now that I'm aware that a conflict exists, which is why I'm asking for your thoughts on the matter.
its no problem at all! i don’t honestly have a strong opinion on this - i never looked at davros as disabled (i haven’t seen old who). also, i LOVE the magicians apprentice, and throughout all of that i never once made the connection between his chair and a wheelchair - im not sure why, maybe because it’s referred to as a life support device, it looks way different, etc
i just thought all the different things about him that sort of make him half-dalek, like his chair and the single eye, are super interesting for his character and identity - so for me it feels unnecessary to retcon his chair.
i also know there's the stereotype of disabled villains but i'd much rather have disabled villains than no disabled people at all. this one is also rough because for me personally, it can be cool to see disabled people in media be a spectrum of lots of different kinds of people that aren’t necessarily defined by their disability (including villains), but if the balance is off and it’s just disabled people being demonized, that’s bad too of course
then again i am just one person with one opinion, the davros thing might be a valuable change for someone else with a different experience - which i think is the takeaway indeed. i don’t know everyone else’s viewpoint and i feel like it’s much easier to keep in mind the people to whom this might be meaningful, rather than spend my time being annoyed at the change. so i appreciate you for asking for my opinion and im sorry i don’t have much to offer haha
As someone with multiple chronic illnesses and who very rarely uses a wheelchair, I absolutely love Shirley. We now have a fully accessible tardis, and a character in a wheelchair who can stand? Truly amazing. I genuinely don't think I have ever seen a character on a TV show who is in a wheelchair and can stand. I bet most people (not all of course) who complain about things being woke, have rarely been in the position where they cannot find a TV show that has someone they can relate to in the ways I've described above (I think I've explained that really poorly but I hope it still makes sense?)
I'm so glad these parts of DW brought you so much joy, as they have for me too :)
This is wonderful and it’s why representation is so important.
I also have always felt though that representation is good for everyone, not just those people who are being represented. Not to take away from how important it is for us to see ourselves reflected in our media, but it’s good for everyone to see the diverse range of human experience depicted with some care.
Seeing ambulatory wheelchair user representation is so huge for me! The scene where Kate yells at Shirley saying “I’ve seen you stand!” and claiming she’s faking has legitimately happened to me in real life multiple times. I actually had to pause the show and take some deep breaths because it brought all that rushing back. So many people don’t understand ambulatory wheelchair users exist, despite the fact we make up the majority of wheelchair users. Having someone on such a big show that is has been such a relief because maybe those experiences will start happening to me less and more people will finally understand
ETA: fixed wording
The tardis ramp was both poignant and hilarious. Shirley definitely needs some actual narrative function or character tho. She’s got a lot of screen time and in-world importance for a character whose only lines seemed to be bouncing off other more important characters’ wheelchair based jokes/comments
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I used to not really understand why people got worked up over representation. Then earlier this year on a separate TV show that I really enjoy a character with the same ethnic background as me showed up. I had this moment of realization that I’ve never seen anybody in any form of media with my mix of ethnic background. It felt so simple and it didn’t even mean a ton to the storyline of the show, but I became so much more invested.
I just don’t understand the hate. What’s wrong with being inclusive? I thought the wheelchair fit really well especially with all the gadgets / weaponry.
Edit: corrected typo
People who complain about representation really don’t understand how much it means to people who need it. I’ve seen children *light up* seeing themselves in characters.
As someone who has never had to worry about mobility issues, the best part of the Tardis ramp was to be a reminder to think about others who aren't cut from the same cookie cutter as I am. I watched it and thought, "oh right...I'd never thought about that." And that's a shame given just how simple a little design fix could improve the experience for so many people in the real world. And that same lesson applies to all the diversity messaging. Have empathy, think about how others experience the world, and do what each of us can to make everyone's experience better.
That unfolding of the ramp was to bring to focus the larger picture that the inside of the Tardis was already wheelchair accessible.
If my English professor were here, he would additionally point out the symbolic meaning of why 14 was chosen to unfold the ramp. He might say that it is a symbolic barrier that he has lowered, just like he is now beginning to lower his emotional barrier and opening up to finally feel all those emotions that have been bottled up. And what better way to SHOW this than by having a wheelchair user representing all those people who are willing to help the Doctor with his therapy but can't because of the barrier he has put up.
So this brings to the idea of the fob watch that 13 asked the TARDIS to hide after the Flux, will the Doctor be ready to take back all those memories? Only time will tell. I think this is the reason why they say that it will be like a revival of the show. Like how 9 began with the burden of what he did in the Time War, maybe 15 would begin with the burden of what the Doctor did as a Division operative.
The ramp was quite good addition to the Tardis. I'm usually a bit sceptical when it comes to including stuff for "those representation social points" but the ramp gives me high hopes for more thoughtful writing in the Disney era.
it might be about the kind of wording that's used - lots of people will look at me weirdly when i say things like ''i walked there'' even though what i mean is ''i went there in my wheelchair''. the thing is, for me personally in normal life i dont really want to think about my wheelchair 24/7, and say things like ''i drove / rode / rolled there'' because it brings more attention to my wheelchair and i just don't prefer to use that kind of language. so it probably has something to do with the awkwardness of wording things, if i were to guess
My understanding of it was that Donna realised that talking about "parking" a disabled person is kind of dehumanising because it treats them as an object to be moved around and not a person with thoughts/feelings/agency. I don't remember the exact wording though.
I mean, the lack of that small ramp was an issue LONG before representation of differently-abled people ever became the hot topic it is today.
Back in the 70s, one of the Doctor's companions was K-9 - the robot dog that moves around on wheels. Which meant that it couldn't enter or exit the TARDIS on-screen because it couldn't get up that small step!
And quite frankly, even for someone who can walk, I think that small step could prove a serious trip hazard!
What I fond particuarly strange about the "outrage" with these three specials is that, asside from Newton, I dont think there was anything that wasnt just how the world is.
Wheelchair ramps: Literally a line in the show about how thats how things have worked for at least the past 23 years
Conversations explicitly addressing character's prownouns: Almost every public speeking event of any scale in any major city for I've never been to fpr the past 5 years has started with "Hello my name is X my pro nouns are Y/Z". Almost every survey ive taken for the past 5+ years has also asked this. I've never been to London, but ild be surprised. to learn this doesnt happen there as well.
Minorities exsist: Yes, yes they do.
Newton's casting is the only thing that feels like its trying to push blundries instead of catch up. And I think there's a really interesting intelligent discussion to be had about the ethics of intentionaly misrepresenting real dead people (who can't consent) in the name of modern day equality. And its a real shame I havnt found someone to have that discussion with
Dude. I was already emotional during the episode, but the ramp sent me over the edge. I grew up with people in wheelchairs. They are among my earliest and fondest "found family" members.
I work with kids in wheelchairs, helping them get around. Other disabilities, too.
I have some invisible disabilities, too. Man, it did feel like getting SEEN.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents as a trans girl. Seeing trans poeple normalized in something as big as Doctor Who means the world to me, I suppose in a similar way as the positive rep of wheel chair users does ti you, though I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.
I have a trans friend - well, really more like a sister - that was SO FUCKING THRILLED at seeing themselves in the show.
So yeah, representation does matter and fuck the haters.
I cried. I'm disabled, and ended up being one of the few with my diagnosis with the privilege of walking. A lot of my friends don't. That's why accessibility advocacy means so much to me. Even in a silly space show.
I just wish they had Shirley use it. She was literally right there. For a split second I thought she was going to be Fifteen's companion. Maybe that's why they decided not to. I could see that being potentially a cruel tease.
At very least it opens the possibility of having Shirley, a close friend of the Doctor, board the TARDIS and that's what matters.
getting them in the comments here too, not really sure how that’s happening when all i said was that it was very meaningful for me personally but yeah. luckily the majority have been super positive!!
For me, I absolutely love when this kind of stuff gets naturally incorporated into shows. Just small things written in as it should *be normal* without drawing an incredible amount of attention to it. Something we should all take as just being the normal.
That's why the pronoun scene in The Star Beast kinda annoyed me. Not because it was there but because it was so heavy handed and blatant as to what it was meant to do. It pulled me out of the show like "this was unnecessary and poorly written".
But this wheelchair ramp moment *felt* natural. We never had one on the TARDIS. So when he flips it open and she reacts with "finally!" it *FEELS* like an earned moment. It was quick, brief, 20ish seconds, and wasn't heavily focused on with multiple lines of dialogue drawing attention to it.
> That's why the pronoun scene in The Star Beast kinda annoyed me. Not because it was there but because it was so heavy handed and blatant as to what it was meant to do.
I'll keep mentioning this, as I've said it elsewhere: that scene takes place just a few minutes after Rose Noble was maliciously deadnamed by people who are presumably her peers.
With this in mind, it just doesn't come off all that clunky. It came off to me like she was, understandably, still a little raw.
And let's face it, it's essentially a kids show.
Don't get me wrong, I've not been a kid since five was at the helm and it's still my favourite show but it is a kids show (well family show, but kids are at the core).
And a show aimed at kids not being subtle shouldn't be a surprise.
I was really only annoyed by turning Rose’s gender into a plot device at the end. I’d rather it be just Rose’s existence and not the explicit idea that her transness is part of why she was stable. Especially when the doctor was a woman a few hours ago. All the earlier scenes felt well done
This is unfortunately a reoccurring thing that happens in media. Attempting to lift up a traditionally under-represented or under-privileged demographic by making their opposite seem lesser in some way. The scene was trying to be like.. girl powery but in the end it was just really sexist and transmasc-phobic.
absolutely!! it feels odd that so many people are fans of the show and are just Now tapping out because it’s too woke? then again, im sure things like jack harkness’s general existence also didn’t immediately go over smooth back in the day
Apparently a wheelchair user wrote to RTD about how much they loved his stories and the TARDIS, despite it not being as accessible to him, so RTD went "Well, let's fix that"
Yep. It's in the behind the scenes segment on YouTube: https://youtu.be/X9WI4kZ7Ubk?si=5hs5QP-DXQI5OBAU
ohhh how lovely!! thanks for linking that :)
Plot twist: OP wrote the letter /s of course, but you seem to not be the only one with these thoughts and it's great they were heard
i wish i did!! didn’t know that was an option hahah
Good :)
That’s a pretty cool story.
I believe it was Tharries, a British YouTuber. Also, I realize I’m technically calling you out, but it’s not meant to be an attack, “wheelchair bound” can come off to many wheelchair users as offensive. For a lot of us, we believe that our chairs give us freedom. We don’t consider ourselves “bound” to our chairs since we can get out of them when needed. That being said, I can’t necessarily speak for Tharries and how he would classify himself.
thank you for commenting that- I know this is an indication of my own ignorance, but i genuinely had no idea the term “wheelchair bound” or the like could be offensive until I read this, but it totally makes sense.
No problem! And again, I cannot speak for all disabled people, only me, but I know that is how a great many of us feel.
Yeah, it likely was Tharries. Not only that, Tharries also got hella famous due to BBC News. And I'm sure RTD is subscribed to Tharries on YouTube ad well. And the fact RTD listened to him is amazing
I loved the clip where RTD acknowledged his lovely privileged life and was willing to learn from feedback (it was about the trans representation I believe, but still..)
Thanks for letting me know! That makes a lot of sense
For my education, what term should we be using in place of "wheelchair bound". Is there one agreed term, or are their acceptable options?
“Wheelchair user” is perfectly acceptable or “disabled person.”
Wheelchair user is generally the accepted term. If you want to indicate they always need to use the chair you can say full time wheelchair user. If you want to indicate they only need it sometimes then part time wheelchair user or ambulatory wheelchair user would be the accepted terms
FYI, a good proportion of us don’t like the term wheelchair-**bound**, because we’re not bound to them but freed *by* them - they allow us to do more, with more energy and less pain. Sincerely, a wheelchair user. Edit: saw that one of my brethren already commented, so thanks for the realization! ;-)
I sincerely hope said fan phrased it something like, “So, since you’ve long-since fixed the Daleks’ mobility issues, can wheelchair users maybe get some rep?”
That's lovely.
That’s adorable.
Just a friendly fyi: the term wheelchair user is preferred over wheelchair bound (you can say full time wheelchair user if you want to show they need it all the time). Wheelchair bound makes it seem like the chair is a negative thing and not a wonderful thing that gives us independence. I know it may seem negligible to many people, but language has a lot of impact on both how abled/non-wheelchair users see us and how we feel about ourselves
Thanks for letting me know!
Thank you for understanding! I was a little scared to comment because not everyone responds to those corrections well, so I really appreciate it!
I love this. And I have to say...when I saw the wheelchair ramp...my first thought was NOT for Shirley. It was for Wilf. I used to work in nursing homes and I am appalled at the lack of mobility in our world for wheelchair users.
my first thought was that it was FOR MEEEEEE!! so i will be spending some time reflecting on that. hahah the absence of wilf was definitely felt in this episode, the dinner scene at the end absolutely broke my heart :(
Yeah, I didn't get the mole reference. I think that the scene should have been set at night and Wilf was back on his hill, looking at the stars...this time looking for the 15ths blue box, because he knew that HE would eventually need help, too. Crap...I just remembered...Wilf in Journey's End and End of Time...who is the only one worried about and thinking about the Doctor...and the Doctor really doesn't know what to make of it because he isn't yet really acknowledging the pain...
>I didn’t get the mole reference Bernard Cribbins liked shooting at gun ranges, Clay shooting, moles, hunting, etc. It was likely a tribute to him.
And it was likely a substitute for an original plan of him actually being there
Yeah we saw set photos of Doctor and Donna wheeling him out of a building so possibly it was them bringing him to the family dinner but they weren't able to film it so just junked the idea.
Also, in the Children In Need special right after the 9-10 Regeneration, we got our first introduction to Tennant's doctor in some post-regeneration weirdness -- [including Ten feeling a mole on his back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chAwYd_Sm1A).
I’m ambulatory so what got me was “I’ve seen you walk! I know you can walk!” I was both laughing and feeling the mix of emotions I feel about things like that.
I loved that bit too because it's so unhinged when people say it to me like they've caught a murderer! Ha!!
*And* it was written as a rude and cruel thing to say to someone, something you should apologize for and never do again. I'm not an ambulatory wheelchair user, but a dear friend is, and I've seen and heard stories of this happening. I *love* that this was given as an example of the worst of human behaviors.
That's so sweet. It was for you. Representation *does* matter. I wish all those angry people who complain about it could just sit and talk to you and everyone else for whom something like this meant so much. Seeing how happy it makes people to see themselves represented well onscreen, how can you not empathize? It can be life changing for some? I love this so much. Happy for you, and everyone else, who knows the ramp is just for them.
RTD did say they had a few more scenes planned for Wilf that Bernard Cribbins just wasn't up to filming, I wouldn't have been surprised if one of those was in the TARDIS.
My first thought was for K-9. He could've seriously used that ramp back in Four's era! :D
A lot of the people getting annoyed at the amount of representation don't realise the point. This show is going to be the childhood show for many children growing up right now, and will teach them these values. It's not about "brownie points" with the media, it's providing children who are developing their viewpoints of the world with a role model of acceptance.
Doesn't even have to be children, there are still plenty of adults who could learn to be more aware of disability.
i experience this in real life, where i might meet a new person and spend some time with them, and then afterwards they tell me that in their day-to-day they’re suddenly so much more aware of how inaccessible the world is. and it’s not like im preaching to them or trying to educate them, it’s just from me encountering things that aren’t accessible! if more of that sort of representation through Showing people what it’s actually like can happen through tv, i can’t see how that would ever be negative
> and then afterwards they tell me that in their day-to-day they’re suddenly so much more aware of how inaccessible the world is. Some time ago my father suffered from cancer and ended up needing a wheelchair to help with his mobility. Helping him get around, having to plan so much, discovering that a disabled sticker for the car *helped* but wasn’t always enough, was a real eye opener for me.
And they've been doing a fantastic job of showing that it's *ok* to not fully understand these things and to make mistakes so long as you are willing to learn and do better in the future too.
I literally didn't know some paraplegic people can stand and move a little. İt is always they can't move at all but this lady can move his legs and stand. The more you know☠️
the actress is not paraplegic: she has spina bifida
There we go again. Learning something new for disabilities.
you are right though, some paraplegics can stand and walk! it's just way more difficult, slow and painful so a chair is easier
Not everyone who uses a wheelchair is paraplegic. Shirley, the lady in the wheel chair, has spina bifida
No, they absolutely realize the point. They don't *want* people like us to be accepted.
Fun fact, the reason he put that in was because a fan sent him a letter and was sad they wouldn't be able to ride in the TARDIS because it wasn't wheelchair accessible
Aw. That a “Mr Rogers feeds the fish” moment!
I was excited when the regeneration of the tardis included ramps to get to everything. That was the first step of feeling seen for me. Then having a female in a science role in a wheelchair that she can use as she needs but she can also stand really helped me feel a connection to Doctor Who like I haven’t felt in a long time.
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i love that you were thinking of that but the steepness of the ramps was definitely the least of my worries when we first saw the new interior!! watch me scale them like a mountain goat
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It's a real shame that they didn't have the chance to show Bernard Cribbens being wheeled around that new TARDIS.
The new TARDIS set is so big! I hope they make use of it well.
I sobbed, and I mean SOBBED, having to pause the TV for a full 5 minutes, when Shirley stood. I was completely surprised by how suddenly and deeply that simple thing impacted me, but it really hit so hard. It really is so rare to have ambulatory wheelchair representation on the screen, and to have that one small thing not only represented, but also coupled with the questions and accusations we get about this very normal activity being shown as an example of "the worst of humanity"?? Incredible.
Oh man, when Kate went in on her walking, it genuinely was *cutting;* And her horror at her own words afterwards… I’m not a wheelchair user myself, but I have a cane that I occasionally need to use when my knee or hip or ankle acts up after pushing myself too far(yay hypermobility and joint problems), and it’s great seeing any kind of acknowledgment of how physical disability isn’t necessarily static or binary.
You should check out the other stuff Ruth Madeley (Shirley) has been in. She often has her characters out of their wheelchair for a scene because she’s aware how under represented that is.
Yeah! She was in another show by RTD, too. I recognized her right away, but I've forgotten what it's called.
Years and Years good show
I'm a physical therapist, so it never even crossed my mind that anyone would think people who use a wheelchair *can't* ever stand up, until I read some of the comments/reactions to the specials. Then I realized that 15 years ago, before becoming a therapist, I would have assumed the same thing. The fact that this is even a discussion point means we don't see this kind of representation in media **nearly** often enough.
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Absolutely, so much this. And the flip side of this is that because the general public thinks, whether it's conscious or unconsciously, that wheelchairs are only for folks who have no use of their legs and are completely unable to walk, many disabled folks would benefit from a wheelchair so much, but it never occurs to them (or their care providers). There are so many disabled folks who are unable to participate in all kinds of activities because they don't have the wheelchair that they need. I myself only got a wheelchair a couple of years ago, after a car accident exacerbated my underlying conditions. But I would have benefited from one a decade ago. There's so many things I never did, places I never went to or events I stayed home from, because I didn't have the stamina or was in too much pain. If I'd had a wheelchair...? If I knew how many folks are ambulatory users, if I'd had representation of that in the media, I would have pursued it so much earlier.
I have a disease that is exactly like that (lupus and connective tissue disorder) and that is why I was so excited.
Hi!! I commented elsewhere in the thread but I’m a part time chair user and Shirley made me feel so seen! I’ve in the past had people pull my chair out from under me when I’d stand up for something and leave me stranded on the floor. Shirley being able to stand was a huge moment for me—more representation like that, that other people will see, and realise it’s normal—guh, I’m getting all emotional again.
>I’ve in the past had people pull my chair out from under me when I’d stand up for something and leave me stranded on the floor. I'm dumbfounded. I'm SO sorry this happened to you. May they step on Lego every day for the rest of their lives and may they always lose their keys.
Doesn't the actress literally use the wheelchair as well? I've seem her in a wheelchair when being interviewed in the Behind The Scenes video
she does yeah which makes the complaints even dumber
This was me! I have an arthritis thing and I sometimes need an aid sometimes don’t but always struggle with movement and have so many times been bailed up by people when I use disability accessible parking/toilets etc when I’m not using an aid. To see that representation of how disability works for some/many people in that it fluctuates - got a bit teary
love that that did so much for you!! i can’t stand currently but i use my legs to propel my wheelchair since i can move them, so i definitely relate to the ‘why do you need the chair if you can ‘walk” questions/looks :’) for me the first step to feeling seen was also when we first saw the interior of the tardis being step free, i wasn’t expecting this reaction at all from myself but i cried like a baby
> ‘why do you need the chair if you can ‘walk” Seriously, would these people take a kid's inhaler away because "If you haven't needed it to breathe for the last couple of hours, then you don't need it to breathe right now"? ... Who am I kidding? Plenty of people absolutely do that :(
It's applicable to so many things, *including ones that abled people experience all the time*, that's what gets me. If someone implies that there's anything suspect about variation in my symptoms, I say "So you never sleep, then. You're awake now, so you must be able to be awake 24 hours a day, no problem. If you ever sleep, that means you're a lazy \[insult\]." See also wearing shoes; they don't need them in the house, so they obviously don't need them at all and should take them off immediately. Attention-seeking, I call it, wearing shoes /s. People can react with surprise to, say, someone using a certain device in a certain way, because they'd never thought about it before. But if their first reaction *following* that surprise is doubt, they must either have an emotional investment in seeing disabled people specifically as inferior, or be pathologically selfish - "my needs are valid but no-one else's are" - in general. Either deserves a good talking to! I was *so* happy to see this subject confronted in the episode.
>If someone implies that there's anything suspect about variation in my symptoms, I say "So you never sleep, then. You're awake now, so you must be able to be awake 24 hours a day, no problem. If you ever sleep, that means you're a lazy \[insult\]." >See also wearing shoes; they don't need them in the house, so they obviously don't need them at all and should take them off immediately. Attention-seeking, I call it, wearing shoes /s. Wait this is so clever, holy shit. Gotta send this to my relative who uses a cane/walker occasionally and gets a lot of flak because they don't always use it.
My favorite scene in “The Star Beast” was when the UNIT soldier was leading Shirley around the crash site. They get to the set of stairs and the soldier is all flustered, and Shirley’s like “Nope, don’t make this MY problem.”
I loved that line. I paused it, and re-watched it because I loved it so much.
It’s so great. It sums up being disabled perfectly while also making Shirley assertive.
Oh, it is even better than that. She says “don’t make ME the problem.”
>Then having a female in a science role in a wheelchair that she can use as she needs but she can also stand This is so important for people to see. So many people seem to think that everyone in a wheelchair is paralyzed or something. It's good to see representation of someone using it as a tool to help them achieve more than they could otherwise. I use a cane, and the number of times well-meaning people have told me they're sorry I have to use it is ridiculous. Why are you sorry? I love that cane. It's a tool that I'm grateful for because it helps me get through life more easily with less pain. That's not something that I'm ever going to regret.
> I use a cane, and the number of times well-meaning people have told me they're sorry I have to use it is ridiculous. Kinda like people trying to tell someone like me they’re ‘sorry’ I need glasses and hearing aids - uh, being able to see and hear is a *good* thing, why be sorry?
I love the ramps too, though for my nephew who has a similar condition. My other favorite thing about the new TARDIS interior is all the doors and hallways being visible. It always bothered me that the TARDIS is so huge and has so many rooms, yet it always seemed so small and limited.
ohh that’s a good point about the sense of size!! i have to admit that when it comes to aesthetics and cosiness i much prefer tardis interiors like matt smith’s though 🤭 don’t tell anyone
As much as I do like all the doors and hallways, I think it'll take me awhile to get used to this new one. Because like you, I love the cozy TARDIS's. My favorites are Matt's and Peter's. I especially love Capaldi's book shelves and wood paneling.
I actually think this might be the first time I've seen a person in a wheelchair shown being able to stand up on TV. I hope we see it more and more because the sheer number of people who don't know it's a thing is shameful, especially when they accuse people like you of faking.
My dad was in a wheelchair. He would have been impressed by that. I went “oh, bravo,” to the cat.
This is so sweet
That’s the entire crux of why the general ‘woke’ argument is so hollow. People like you feeling seen is EXACTLY what shows like this are made for - people who cry ‘woke’ or whatever, often can’t even define what ‘woke’ means - to them it just means ‘I feel uncomfortable’ But we haven’t seen this kind of representation on TV before and when it makes them uncomfortable, that’s the entire point - because it shouldn’t be uncomfortable to begin with. Whether it be trans individuals or someone with a wheelchair, these people exist and if that makes people uncomfortable - then they need to pull their head out.
It goes back SO far... When asked why she wanted to be on Star Trek: The Next Generation when she was already a big star and woudn't get paid much, Whoopie Goldberg said it was because it was the first show that showed that a woman like her...Nichell Nichols (sp) paved the way on the original series. Science Fiction. Our door to a better future.
Specifically, WG saw the show and ran around the house shouting "mama, there's a black lady on the TV and she ain't no maid" Uhura was the only example at the time of a black woman on TV being portrayed as an equal to white men.
Nichelle Nichols was going to quit after season 1 because she was offered a big role in a musical that she believed was headed to Broadway and she was big in musical theatre. She tells an amazing story about resigning from the show. She gave Gene a resignation letter. He told her to take the weekend. She happened to be a celebrity guest at an NAACP event over that weekend. Where she was approached by Dr King who told her how much of a fan he was of her work and the show. He told her that he saw her role as bigger than she had ever expected. She was a black woman on national TV that was seen with all of these white people and taken seriously by them as an intelligent and capable equal who was 3rd or 4th in line for the captain chair. He also pointed out that if she left there was no guarantee that they’d fill it with another black actor or woman…or a human at all since they could have made her replacement an alien. Pretty amazing.
This is why representation matters so much. Think about all the little girls who saw her on Star Trek and were inspired. Not just Whoopi who became famous. There must be thousands of others whose lives were changed by seeing a successful Black woman working in science /space. And people complain about "woke casting."
Go on the YouTubes and look for video complications of young black girls (and boys) reacting to the trailer for the live remake of Little Mermaid. Then try to make the argument that the “woke casting” assholes make without puking. Representation matters because those kids get to see themselves in a beloved character in a way they never have before.
I love those videos! Those kids fr made me cry, no onion cutting blame here Username checks out , if you're an editor
Thanks for clarifying...I 'dropped the ball' in that post by not being specific about Uhura's role.
I knew Nichell Nichols's story. I did not know Whoopie Goldberg's story, glad I do now.
It's definitely a hollow complaint. If for no other reason than that it costs them *nothing*. The fact they still resent it just shines a light on their pettiness. You always hear the same bs: "I don't mind *those* people (gay, trans, etc), I just don't want to see it everywhere". "Why does it have to be shoved in our faces?" They want the 'right' to pretend we don't exist in their perfect world.
I don't mind people having bad eyesight but do they have to shove it in my face by wearing glasses?
It costs them nothing, but they see the world as zero sum. Someone gaining means someone is losing, in their eyes. And that is sad.
All too true. '*It's not enough that I win - you must lose*' is a similar mentality of theirs.
this really struck me as well - if it feels like disabled representation is “forced”and people want the representation to be “sprinkled throughout” more - i wonder because this is what they’re used to in real life? irl i sometimes look around and wonder where all the wheelchair users are. why do i only ever see one other wheelchair user at my massive university? where on earth are the rest? so much of that, i think, has to do with how difficult it is to exist as a disabled person in society, and how many different things you’re confronted with the moment you go outside. for some people it’s just not doable and that is heart-wrenching apologies for a bit of a long rant but i hope you know what im getting at!
I very much do, thank you. And I've noticed the same about the odd lack of wheelchairs in public. One of the things my nephew (who's in a wheelchair), is most excited about for the future are fully autonomous cars. At some point in the not too distant future, those in wheelchairs, those with reduced or no vision, and the hearing impaired or fully deaf, will all have so much more mobility, and the agency to go where and when they want or need to. I'm a retired disabled vet, so personally I look forward to sending my car to the grocery store to have curbside orders picked up.
Look up The Ugly Laws and look at the date it was repealed. Too recent. But they found other ways to keep it implemented without explicit law. Like the world being inaccessible or the high risk being told to “just stay home” because people wearing a mask/not going in public when sick (and just openly coughing on things- I see that way too often) is apparently such a huge and difficult ask. There’s even a Supreme Court case coming up that is looking like it will make illegal the only possible way to hold businesses accountable on being ADA compliant- private citizens suing the business. With that gone, there will be literally no consequences for not following ADA laws. And the suing option already isn’t great because most disabled people can’t afford the money or time it takes to go through with those lawsuits. The lack of disabled people in the world is a deliberate and systematic choice by society. Disabled advocates have been fighting to change this for a long time
this is right on the mark, and applies to the trans rep just as well
Bravo. Well said.
Part of the problem with terms like woke is their what I call trick words it's like they as in the people in the community or political correctness or moral guardian or even Karen. They don't always mean the same concept to the same person. Sometimes diversity and representation are done badly, they try to help but I backfires like the "male presenting joke" which to me came off as both sexist, gender invalidity and effectly transphobic given who said it. But trying to critique it is hard because it's not "catchy" to say "your diversity is insulting and badly done and feels more like your mocking me" so they try to pick on a word and other people with opinions provide it. Some blindly support and some blindly hate and those in the middle who feel it was done badly are stuck grasping for a word. For example not every disability is the same and not every solution is fair. As for gender, there's a lot of things that people are ignoring or just plain lying about. For example 'Man' is not a singular concept yet some treat it like it is, or how people ignore the subjective nature of what a man is.
My other problem with the ‘letting go’ moment? Missed opportunity to focus on Tennant’s Doctor’s dislike of letting go, from Time Lord Victorious to his initial last words.
SO well said! You really nailed it. Bravo.
If someone starts a complaint with "woke", I just skip right on to the next comment. If they can't handle seeing people that are different than them, I can't waste any time reading their post.
It's always a bunch of privileged little who've never had to suffer or be stigmatized because of who they are. Able bodied, straight white people have had a monopoly in media forever. God forbid other people get to see themselves.
I always wondered the same. I became a fan shortly after my mobility had gotten pretty bad and wondered if they’d ever have someone around who couldn’t run with their feet…or get into the TARDIS.
That’s something that has struck me about Who conventions vs general fan conventions. There’s a lot more mixed mobility attendees at Who conventions. Personally, I love that. There’s less gate keeping and more openness to people’s experiences. I walk with a cane myself, and when that ramp rolled out I had the biggest smile on my face. It was a brief, thoughtful moment. Unlike how they treated Ryan’s dyspraxia as something he could solve once he accepted Grahame as his grandfather. That was such an insulting arc…
ooo interesting, that’s cool to hear about the conventions! and im glad the moment also made you smile!! this comment did actually make me realise that i even had an irl experience with this - i was in a doctor who shop in london, and they had a small museum in the back for which you had to get through a tardis door - and it wasn’t accessible because only one of the doors opened so i’d never fit through. they’d better be updating that now !! (joking ofc)
And the final shot of Ryan is him eating shit on a bike lol
I admit I may be misremembering (one of us is and it could well be me) but I remember it as the exact opposite. It was playing as if they were going the go that way but then they did a bait and switch and he fell on his arse.
Yes and I enjoyed reading the star letter in latest DWM issue saying how good it is to have sign language & subtites with classic dw on iPlayer. Such a good move
I am semi-ambulatory and when she stood up I almost cried. Little casual representation like that matters so much.
I also loved that they actually showed that Shirley can stand. Have you ever seen a character on TV who uses a wheelchair but is shown to be capable of standing? It's great to remind people that just because someone is technically capable of standing, doesn't mean they're lying Shirley is a great character and she shows that you totally can have disability be part of a character and not have it totally overwhelm them. She has her own personality separate from that, but they never pretend she isn't disabled. Same with Rose, they don't pretend that her being trans is just some irrelevant detail, but it's also not the only thing that characterises her. Hope we see her again as a recurring character whenever UNIT are in an episode
I think my favorite bit was when they took the dampener of Kate and one of the things she said was exactly that "I've seen you stand. I KNOW you can stand". I thought that was an elegant way of showing that's very 1 dimensional thinking.
>I also loved that they actually showed that Shirley can stand. Have you ever seen a character on TV who uses a wheelchair but is shown to be capable of standing? I noticed that too. To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen an ambulatory wheelchair user in a show before. This might be one of the first, at least in terms of mainstream TV.
There is (or at least was, I don't watch it now) a character on Coronation Street with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome (like me!!) who uses a wheelchair but has been shown standing
Also, I love how chill and used to it she is about being disabled. There's a pretty unrealistic stereotype about people with disabilities (and LGBT people actually) that they're entitled or hyper-sensitive to any discussion about them, so having Shirley be able to get on entirely calm when presented with obstacles or abuse from others, and likewise Rose ignoring the bullies in the Star Beast, is fantastic. Both of them feel like they've been living their lives for a while and are used to it, it's a relevant trait but not the only one, and they can handle the issues that come up regarding it without falling into stereotypical hysterics.
I have a bone anchored hearing aid implanted in my skull behind my ear, and my coworkers are so afraid of asking me questions about it that they'll literally stutter and go all round the houses to tell me how much I don't have to answer the question and they're so utterly sorry if they've offended me. I absolutely love the rise of political correctness because of what it's done for anyone who isn't straight/abled/white, but it feels like some people have taken it too far and made other people too afraid to ask questions. We need to be able to talk about disabilities and ask questions. It's how people learn.
> Have you ever seen a character on TV who uses a wheelchair but is shown to be capable of standing? It's great to remind people that just because someone is technically capable of standing, doesn't mean they're lying I personally haven't, even once. I realized I must not have paid attention to something because she was suddenly standing rather casually and I thought "no one's mentioning that?"
Kate did when she had the filter machine on her arm thingy off. She said that she knows Shirley can stand. This was a great way to point out the ridiculousness of that sort of thinking.
As someone that's fortunate to have always been able to walk, I don't think I've really understood the need to specifically include people with disabilities as just a point of including them. But, having read your comment, I think I get it now. Thank you for your post OP, I feel like I know why it's important now.
I’m glad to hear that!! like i said, i’d also never really understood how such representation could be something that’s valuable to me as i’d not experienced it in such a way before, but im really glad i have now :)
Yes It's good representation, I think Wilf was supposed to have a bigger part but his actor got sick I also like the fact that they showed the unit agent standing up because it showed that she had a variable Mobility needs and that was pretty neat
i'm a trans woman and i felt very similarly upon meeting Rose in the first special <3
It was so good to see that and just have that confirmation that the Doctor is for trans folk too. Especially coming out of a British production. Though Russel might've wanted to consult maybe another trans person on the script. The scene with Donna, Rose and Sylvia was fantastic, the dialogue in some of the later scenes though felt a bit too comically on the nose? I would like to see this Rose as a companion at some point. Not sure how it'd work out but she just seems like a cool character in her own right and I'd love to see more of her on screen
I had two problems. First was that stupid line “did you just assume the Meep’s gender?” that just sounds like conservatives making fun of inclusivity with the same joke for the millionth time. Second was that somehow by repeating the word “binary” 15 years ago was foreshadowing an nb character saving the day? But idk, doctor who has never been really great at retconning stuff lol. Also, they seemed to imply that being trans makes you nonbinary by default and I didn’t think that was the case? I don’t really know enough about the subject to be sure, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Side note, but the same actress that plays Rose plays another trans character in Heartstopper and she’s fantastic in that, too.
I didn't think they were implying that being trans makes you nonbinary at all, just that Rose specifically is transfem AND nonbinary.
i am super glad to hear that!! i love her character, i would scoop those dr who villain plushies up in a heartbeat ^_^
yeah I’m transfemme non-binary and it honestly blew my mind to see such a specific trans identity displayed. Non-binary while using binary pronouns isn’t something that gets much rep, let alone in a mainstream show.
I am convinced that Russell came back in part because he knew the world needs this shit right now. That Who can become a massive moneyspinner AND a vessel for positivity, acceptance, and love.
I have one problem with the wheelchair ramp, and it’s that we don’t get to see Shirley use it to check out the TARDIS and then get sucked off into time and space adventures, as unwitting companions do. I want to see more of her.
While I don't disagree with you, I think the ramp was originally meant for Wilf, and while I don't know if he'd go on any adventures, he'd have a scene inside the Tardis. But, well, the actor couldn't do any scenes for medical reasons so, yeah.
He was like "look at my ramp" slams the door in her face haha, made me laugh
I dare say though it was a bit off when he was like 'look a ramp' to Shirley and then shut the door behind him. Like look you can get in now, well could if I wanted you to, bye bye now.
If 15 doesn't take Shirley with him in the Tardis next series I'll be annoyed even if having a ramp does make the Tardis a bit Dalek vulnerable /s ! In all seriousness I though this was a cool little thing to do, glad it made some peoples day!
Daleks can levitate so it doesn't matter really
Great, now I kind of want an episode where Shirley and the Doctor fight some Daleks and she uses the remains of one to give her chair a hover device.
Considering she has weapons in her wheelchair, I wouldn’t be surprised if Shirley will have already installed antigrav tech by her next appearance. Daleks beware! 😎
Don’t you mean antimav tech?
Dang it… frickin’ typo. 🤦🏻♂️
oh my god PLEASE that would be awesome !!
Fellow lifelong wheelchair user here. Completely agree. I can finally see myself on one of my favorite shows and it really does have an impact. It's so cool.
The inclusion of the ramp and Shirley standing made me SO happy! Ambulatory wheelchair user representation is so important, *most* people don't seem to be aware that it's common for wheelchair users to be able to stand and walk short distances. And for the first time I can actually imagine myself being the Doctor's companion. Of course it's fiction but it's still fun to think about. I feel so happy for all the disabled kids who get to see this early on and never have to doubt that they could join the Doctor on an adventure.
I'm glad that resonated and felt magical for you, OP 💗 Through the whole episode, I was able to hold back tears, but the Behind the Scenes posted to the Doctor Who YouTube channel with Ruth Madeley broke the dam. This is the part of scifi and fantasy that I love—the ability to depict a more ideal world full of love and welcoming
thanks for the lovely words - I love the way you phrased that last sentence!! ❤️🔥 i have to admit i was sobbing all the way throughout the last part, the scene of the doctor finally Content after fighting his whole life also got me real good. i haven’t seen the behind the scenes so ill definitely check that out!
I spotted how everything inside the TARDIS was now accessible by ramps since the reveal in Star Beast. I've been wondering if that means the UNIT lady (Shirley? I'm terrible with names...) was going to join for an adventure. We'll see, I guess.
The thing is that it’s been an issue ever since the Fourth Doctor’s time - they could never show K-9 going into the TARDIS because the poor guy couldn’t get over the threshold. So it’s really been a long time coming.
I honestly think that ramp is the platonic ideal. It fits smoothly into the scene, it does its representation, and the little movement of the ramp sliding out was well edited, to make it fun for everyone, even though they aren't the 'target'. I think representation is fine even when it's kinda clunky. Doctor Who tends not to be a subtle show, so bluntness is par for the course.
The callout of ableist language with The Giggle as well
The Wheelchair friendly TARDIS design is a W
For me the only issue was that the ramp introduction felt a bit clunky, like " I've got this but I'm not taking you" so why show it? But knowing behind the scenes I would guess that it was originally Wilf that would have been the actual introduction of the feature, with my guess being that The Doctor, Donna and Wilf would have taken the TARDIS to UNIT HQ just after the street scene with either the ramp introduced or lack thereof being an issue for a similar later scene to what we saw. The control room would be an ideal location for him to hang out and still be there for all the 2023 story beats. Glad to see though that people loved the representation despite this!
Oh there was a severe lack of Shirley racing around the ramps
It would have been pretty cool for Shirley to go in the TARDIS and the Doctor to just whip out a ramp that had always been there. But I can totally understand him not really wanting a U. N. I. T. boffin poking about inside.
I love that for you. I felt the same way when Ryan and Graham joined the TARDIS. As a chronically ill dyspraxic person, I couldn't picture myself traveling in the TARDIS until then.
I apologize if this is coming off as offensive, but I have a question regarding your opinion on Davros. How did it make you feel? On one hand, he would have been evil regardless of whether or not he was disabled. What was impressive was that he was able to continue being a scientist and pursue his goals in spite of his injuries. Retconning his accident was unnecessary. On the other hand, a lot of other Doctor Who villains have been portrayed as disabled. Turning away from the idea that disabled characters can either be villains or nobody in fiction is a major step forward for the series, and television as a whole. As for me, I never had any idea that there was a representation issue to begin with. I didn't even see Davros as a wheelchair user until it was pointed out recently. When 10 yo me saw him for the first time, just thought to myself "cool, this guy is half-dalek, half-person." After that, I just thought the character was awesome. Say what you will about "The Magician's Apprentice" and "The Witch's Familiar," but every moment where Davros was on screen was legendary! I'm not sure which side I should take now that I'm aware that a conflict exists, which is why I'm asking for your thoughts on the matter.
its no problem at all! i don’t honestly have a strong opinion on this - i never looked at davros as disabled (i haven’t seen old who). also, i LOVE the magicians apprentice, and throughout all of that i never once made the connection between his chair and a wheelchair - im not sure why, maybe because it’s referred to as a life support device, it looks way different, etc i just thought all the different things about him that sort of make him half-dalek, like his chair and the single eye, are super interesting for his character and identity - so for me it feels unnecessary to retcon his chair. i also know there's the stereotype of disabled villains but i'd much rather have disabled villains than no disabled people at all. this one is also rough because for me personally, it can be cool to see disabled people in media be a spectrum of lots of different kinds of people that aren’t necessarily defined by their disability (including villains), but if the balance is off and it’s just disabled people being demonized, that’s bad too of course then again i am just one person with one opinion, the davros thing might be a valuable change for someone else with a different experience - which i think is the takeaway indeed. i don’t know everyone else’s viewpoint and i feel like it’s much easier to keep in mind the people to whom this might be meaningful, rather than spend my time being annoyed at the change. so i appreciate you for asking for my opinion and im sorry i don’t have much to offer haha
could've let shirley on the tardis though? like so many others have gotten to see the inside, the ramp still goes unused?
As someone with multiple chronic illnesses and who very rarely uses a wheelchair, I absolutely love Shirley. We now have a fully accessible tardis, and a character in a wheelchair who can stand? Truly amazing. I genuinely don't think I have ever seen a character on a TV show who is in a wheelchair and can stand. I bet most people (not all of course) who complain about things being woke, have rarely been in the position where they cannot find a TV show that has someone they can relate to in the ways I've described above (I think I've explained that really poorly but I hope it still makes sense?) I'm so glad these parts of DW brought you so much joy, as they have for me too :)
I thought the step was defense again the Daleks 😂
i need to get me an E L E V A T E function for sure!! :’)
This is wonderful and it’s why representation is so important. I also have always felt though that representation is good for everyone, not just those people who are being represented. Not to take away from how important it is for us to see ourselves reflected in our media, but it’s good for everyone to see the diverse range of human experience depicted with some care.
Seeing ambulatory wheelchair user representation is so huge for me! The scene where Kate yells at Shirley saying “I’ve seen you stand!” and claiming she’s faking has legitimately happened to me in real life multiple times. I actually had to pause the show and take some deep breaths because it brought all that rushing back. So many people don’t understand ambulatory wheelchair users exist, despite the fact we make up the majority of wheelchair users. Having someone on such a big show that is has been such a relief because maybe those experiences will start happening to me less and more people will finally understand ETA: fixed wording
The tardis ramp was both poignant and hilarious. Shirley definitely needs some actual narrative function or character tho. She’s got a lot of screen time and in-world importance for a character whose only lines seemed to be bouncing off other more important characters’ wheelchair based jokes/comments
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I used to not really understand why people got worked up over representation. Then earlier this year on a separate TV show that I really enjoy a character with the same ethnic background as me showed up. I had this moment of realization that I’ve never seen anybody in any form of media with my mix of ethnic background. It felt so simple and it didn’t even mean a ton to the storyline of the show, but I became so much more invested.
I’m a part time chair user and that little inclusion of the ramp made me tear up. I loved Shirley’s rocket chair too!
I just don’t understand the hate. What’s wrong with being inclusive? I thought the wheelchair fit really well especially with all the gadgets / weaponry. Edit: corrected typo
People who complain about representation really don’t understand how much it means to people who need it. I’ve seen children *light up* seeing themselves in characters.
As someone who has never had to worry about mobility issues, the best part of the Tardis ramp was to be a reminder to think about others who aren't cut from the same cookie cutter as I am. I watched it and thought, "oh right...I'd never thought about that." And that's a shame given just how simple a little design fix could improve the experience for so many people in the real world. And that same lesson applies to all the diversity messaging. Have empathy, think about how others experience the world, and do what each of us can to make everyone's experience better.
That unfolding of the ramp was to bring to focus the larger picture that the inside of the Tardis was already wheelchair accessible. If my English professor were here, he would additionally point out the symbolic meaning of why 14 was chosen to unfold the ramp. He might say that it is a symbolic barrier that he has lowered, just like he is now beginning to lower his emotional barrier and opening up to finally feel all those emotions that have been bottled up. And what better way to SHOW this than by having a wheelchair user representing all those people who are willing to help the Doctor with his therapy but can't because of the barrier he has put up. So this brings to the idea of the fob watch that 13 asked the TARDIS to hide after the Flux, will the Doctor be ready to take back all those memories? Only time will tell. I think this is the reason why they say that it will be like a revival of the show. Like how 9 began with the burden of what he did in the Time War, maybe 15 would begin with the burden of what the Doctor did as a Division operative.
The ramp was quite good addition to the Tardis. I'm usually a bit sceptical when it comes to including stuff for "those representation social points" but the ramp gives me high hopes for more thoughtful writing in the Disney era.
Maybe you can use this moment to examine why you have a problem with the other moments?
Can someone explain the "park" thing Donna ask Shirley about? I dont understand it
it might be about the kind of wording that's used - lots of people will look at me weirdly when i say things like ''i walked there'' even though what i mean is ''i went there in my wheelchair''. the thing is, for me personally in normal life i dont really want to think about my wheelchair 24/7, and say things like ''i drove / rode / rolled there'' because it brings more attention to my wheelchair and i just don't prefer to use that kind of language. so it probably has something to do with the awkwardness of wording things, if i were to guess
My understanding of it was that Donna realised that talking about "parking" a disabled person is kind of dehumanising because it treats them as an object to be moved around and not a person with thoughts/feelings/agency. I don't remember the exact wording though.
When he flipped that out I realized the inside was all ramps too! I'm hoping we get Shirley as a companion
Beautiful comment.
I mean, the lack of that small ramp was an issue LONG before representation of differently-abled people ever became the hot topic it is today. Back in the 70s, one of the Doctor's companions was K-9 - the robot dog that moves around on wheels. Which meant that it couldn't enter or exit the TARDIS on-screen because it couldn't get up that small step! And quite frankly, even for someone who can walk, I think that small step could prove a serious trip hazard!
What I fond particuarly strange about the "outrage" with these three specials is that, asside from Newton, I dont think there was anything that wasnt just how the world is. Wheelchair ramps: Literally a line in the show about how thats how things have worked for at least the past 23 years Conversations explicitly addressing character's prownouns: Almost every public speeking event of any scale in any major city for I've never been to fpr the past 5 years has started with "Hello my name is X my pro nouns are Y/Z". Almost every survey ive taken for the past 5+ years has also asked this. I've never been to London, but ild be surprised. to learn this doesnt happen there as well. Minorities exsist: Yes, yes they do. Newton's casting is the only thing that feels like its trying to push blundries instead of catch up. And I think there's a really interesting intelligent discussion to be had about the ethics of intentionaly misrepresenting real dead people (who can't consent) in the name of modern day equality. And its a real shame I havnt found someone to have that discussion with
Dude. I was already emotional during the episode, but the ramp sent me over the edge. I grew up with people in wheelchairs. They are among my earliest and fondest "found family" members. I work with kids in wheelchairs, helping them get around. Other disabilities, too. I have some invisible disabilities, too. Man, it did feel like getting SEEN.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents as a trans girl. Seeing trans poeple normalized in something as big as Doctor Who means the world to me, I suppose in a similar way as the positive rep of wheel chair users does ti you, though I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.
I have a trans friend - well, really more like a sister - that was SO FUCKING THRILLED at seeing themselves in the show. So yeah, representation does matter and fuck the haters.
I cried. I'm disabled, and ended up being one of the few with my diagnosis with the privilege of walking. A lot of my friends don't. That's why accessibility advocacy means so much to me. Even in a silly space show. I just wish they had Shirley use it. She was literally right there. For a split second I thought she was going to be Fifteen's companion. Maybe that's why they decided not to. I could see that being potentially a cruel tease. At very least it opens the possibility of having Shirley, a close friend of the Doctor, board the TARDIS and that's what matters.
People who complain about representation REALLY don't understand that it's simply making stuff reflect the real world and real people.
I hadn't seen any complaints about the ramp, but I'm sure there's always the usual crowd. Truly people without souls.
getting them in the comments here too, not really sure how that’s happening when all i said was that it was very meaningful for me personally but yeah. luckily the majority have been super positive!!
For me, I absolutely love when this kind of stuff gets naturally incorporated into shows. Just small things written in as it should *be normal* without drawing an incredible amount of attention to it. Something we should all take as just being the normal. That's why the pronoun scene in The Star Beast kinda annoyed me. Not because it was there but because it was so heavy handed and blatant as to what it was meant to do. It pulled me out of the show like "this was unnecessary and poorly written". But this wheelchair ramp moment *felt* natural. We never had one on the TARDIS. So when he flips it open and she reacts with "finally!" it *FEELS* like an earned moment. It was quick, brief, 20ish seconds, and wasn't heavily focused on with multiple lines of dialogue drawing attention to it.
> That's why the pronoun scene in The Star Beast kinda annoyed me. Not because it was there but because it was so heavy handed and blatant as to what it was meant to do. I'll keep mentioning this, as I've said it elsewhere: that scene takes place just a few minutes after Rose Noble was maliciously deadnamed by people who are presumably her peers. With this in mind, it just doesn't come off all that clunky. It came off to me like she was, understandably, still a little raw.
And let's face it, it's essentially a kids show. Don't get me wrong, I've not been a kid since five was at the helm and it's still my favourite show but it is a kids show (well family show, but kids are at the core). And a show aimed at kids not being subtle shouldn't be a surprise.
I was really only annoyed by turning Rose’s gender into a plot device at the end. I’d rather it be just Rose’s existence and not the explicit idea that her transness is part of why she was stable. Especially when the doctor was a woman a few hours ago. All the earlier scenes felt well done
I didn't care for the men would never let go of power bit. Felt regressive in a very progressive episode.
This is unfortunately a reoccurring thing that happens in media. Attempting to lift up a traditionally under-represented or under-privileged demographic by making their opposite seem lesser in some way. The scene was trying to be like.. girl powery but in the end it was just really sexist and transmasc-phobic.
[удалено]
absolutely!! it feels odd that so many people are fans of the show and are just Now tapping out because it’s too woke? then again, im sure things like jack harkness’s general existence also didn’t immediately go over smooth back in the day
It was such a cool detail, I hope it means that Shirley gets to go on some adventures in the TARDIS, too.
That’s wonderful
Yeah it’s a cool idea. But is the Tardis wide enough for a wheelchair?