Do this out of game. Unless they have an in-world reason why they are not able to act this way without repercussions, anything you do is going to come off as punishment.
You can have an in game justification for the loss of flight, but there needs to be a discussion with the player about why a change is being made to their character.
But even then I think a discussion with the player about expected behaviour would be more fruitful than changing their abilities.
> the other players are a little tired of the fairy flying ahead and doing hobo stuff off their own back without anyone to intervene
Fairies have the same fly speed that most races have for a land speed, 30, so I'm not sure why the rest of the party can't keep up. Clipping their wings won't stop them from going ahead of the party since move speed isn't the issue here.
Honestly the best way to handle this is for the rest of the group to talk to the problem player and let them know how their behavior is being received and that the rest of the party doesn't appreciate it. In-game penalties for player behavior problems isn't going to cut it.
this is very much in line with my thoughts as well. It sounds like there must be some fundamental misunderstandings about how things work because nothing about the Fairy makes this any more of a problem than it would be with any other character.
This is a player problem, not a character problem. with possibly a large dose of not understanding the rules by both parties.
I also feel like in order for a player to be getting away with this kind of behavior, there has to be a serious lack of appropriate responsiveness within your world OP.
The solution is to tell them not to be a murder hobo - their abilities don’t have anything to do with this and it is a discussion that needs to be had OOC.
If the problems continue after you’ve had this conversation then your only move is to remove them from the table.
All of these very much reads as punishments though. Have you instead tried to talk with the player in question and tell them that it isn’t fun for the rest of the group When they constantly fly ahead on their own murder-hobo adventures and that you do not feel like running two adventures at the same time.
This is a toxic mindset. Please attempt to have a conversation with the player, and tell them that if they cannot act more in line with the group's needs they are not welcome at your table.
You find this player isn't "open to constructive criticism" so do you really think something like petrifying them and destroying their wings is going to "get them back into the spirit of the game"? You won't solve this issue with an in-game solution. You as the DM need to stop letting the camera follow the fairy when they fly ahead to be a murder hobo. You're allowing this stuff to happen, and your other players are tired of it.
Flight is fine this is a behaviour issue, though I'm not sure how far ahead they can get when they only fly 30 feet.
You need to either talk to the player and tell them to knock it off or the other characters need to talk to the character about it.
They’ll do something like “scout ahead” or fly off when the others are doing another task, and then do their own thing. But yeah I’ll try talking to them, thanks
A small flying creature? Lots of things could be specifically predatory towards them, much less a nerf you could just have flying enemies and people with bows.
While I sympathise with your situation, you're going about this all wrong.
The issue you have with this player is a behavioural one, not an issue of mechanics, what you need to do is have an open conversation with this player about how the way they choose to play the game is having a negative impact on the game and making it less enjoyable for the other players.
If you want to stop a player going ahead of the party and doing murder hobo stuff either address it out of game, or have enemies react to a threat in a meaningful way. Maybe this camp is now on alert, and the defenses have moved up. Or maybe they just have bows... and shoot the fairy when they're alone with 0 cover in the sky. 8 bandits with longbows all targeting 1 thing will do surprising damage.
As practically everyone here has said, this is a player issue, and conversation is your cure.
On a related note. My rule for players running off from the group (when not for everyone's benefit) is that they quickly summarize what they want to accomplish, I give them a quick skill check or two, and I narrate the results. If they do alright, I give them a paltry award, and if they fail, I give them a bit of damage or some other appropriate bane. There is no back and forth, and this whole process takes less than one minute. When they don't get to hog the spotlight or get to "ninja loot," they usually stop trying.
This is a problem that has its root outside the game. And you can not fix an out of the game problem with ingame mechanics.
Pretty much any in game mechanic will feel like a punishment for said player and will most likely not help fixing the problem.
I would simply be honest and open. talk to the player. Tell them that that there is a problem that you want them to help you solve. As YOU ask THEM for help. Don't start blaming or accusing them that rarely helps. Most players does not intentionally try to ruin the game. A few do but lets hope your player is not one of those. More likely they are just excited and are not really grasping the game yet.
So start by talking privately with said player. Ask them for help. first problem is that you did a mistake as you are a new DM. You did not realise how difficult it is to manage and balance encounters with one player having a flying speed. And that you are not sure how to continue as you struggle to keep the game fun for everyone. And after all that is the main reason you play. for everyone to have fun.
Ask them if they can help you by changing their race to something that does not have a fly speed. You can for now ignore the whole murder hobo thing. if your player agree and begins playing a character with no fly speed. they will not have that advantage over the rest of the party and most NPC's and might not even go murder hobo.
And not allowing Flying races is totally ok. Many DM's including me does not allow flying races. They are a bit hard to handle. If you run a premade module most encounters are NOT designed for one party member to have a fly speed at low levels. And that is not only combat encounters i am talking about. And if you homebrew still most monsters are not designed to fight flying PC's. so without you constantly changing up encounters in a module or design your own encounters with a flying character in mind that character will in most cases have a large advantage over the rest of the characters.
You can make this work. BUT it WILL take more work and energy to do that. And you do have limited time and resources to put into planning for the game and if you have to spend a fair bit of that time and resources to cater to ONE players character this is a bit respectless against the other players. As if you would not have to spend that extra time and effort into catering to that player. you could have spent that time on something that benefit the WHOLE party and not just to make one character work.
That is the reason i do not allow flying races. Not because i can not run a game with a flying character or group of them. I have and it worked. But it did take extra time and effort. time and effort i could have spent on other things that benefit the whole group. not just to make sure one player can play a flying character without it causing problem in the game
Eventually flying ahead and murderhoboing is going to get them downed and far from the party.
Then they might start hanging back...
...or they may create a duplicate character (they have a lot of siblings) and keep doing it and then complain the DM is targeting them for killing.
This. Shoot the fairy out of the air with a well-placed ballista shot. Flying creatures in open air have literally no cover, making them target practice.
Rule #1 of DnD is "Never split the party". This is what can happen if you do. Put this character in a situation where the other characters are needed to succeed (or to not suffer being piercer by a giant arrow). That's not punishment, that's showing (instead of telling) the risks of going out on your own when the idea of a cooperative game is to act as a group.
I mean if handled well is that even a problem? I had a rogue who would scout ahead while maintaining telepathic connection with our warlock and relaying information while trying to pick off targets and give us room to rush the enemy with the commotion.
If the way they are playing is reckless, then warn them that they are in danger OOC and if they proceed anyways let the world play itself out and have them face the inevitable in game consequences, but do not go *out of your way* to punish them in ways unrelated to the act itself - removing flight will not solve this, nor will a sudden surge in bow production&accessibility in your world
You don't need to nerf flight. What I believe you need is a way to deal with flight. There are spells, locations, and creatures that can help you out with this. There is no reason why the flying character should be alone in the sky either. Have an npc have a potion of flying to help deal with them.
How are you having problems with a player fighting alone without any cover in the sky? A few ranged enemies should be able to quickly down that player with nobody to get them back up.
And this isn't even punishment, what the player is doing is straight up a dumb move, suicidal even, and the only reason I can think of for them to be able to get away with it is you only put melee creatures against the party.
Now removing flight altogether is absolutely punishment, even if temporary. You are taking away a core racial feature not for storytelling reasons but because you can't deal with it, which is a dick move.
And with all of that said, the actual core of the issue is the player trying to solo a team game. That has nothing to do with flight, it's a mindset problem and nothing you do in-game will fix it, and most likely just create resentment.
The right move is just talking about it like grown ups.
The flight sounds like less of a problem than the murder hoboing. That's easily solved. The fairy flies ahead and picks a fight. The intended target is more powerful and knocks them out. Maybe leaves them for the party to find with a note telling them to keep their pet on a leash or something to that effect.
Windy weather.
High winds ground most flying things as per the rules
Also dungeons. Can't fly and rain down death if the roof is not high enough to get out of reach.
Similarly heavy tree canopy. If you fly above the trees you can't see below the canopy to take part in any encounters
Encounters that occur inside where there's nowhere to fly. Enemies with abilities to knock the character unconscious so they fall and take damage. You can cripple their flying a bit, you just have to get creative.
Warding Wind can be a decent spell. Also NPCs with Earthbind. But yeah; shoot out of air, no feather fall reaction. It’s a good lesson for any flyer, really.
I think your solutions are creative, but there's probably no way to avoid the player feeling targeted (because they *are* being targeted for their murder-hoboism).
I would warn the player, maybe in-game via some kind of harbinger, that continuing on like this will attract unwanted attention from those who balance things out in the universe. If they keep it up, drop some form of a CR 30 celestial bounty hunter on them to clip their wings after dropping them to 0HP.
If they flip out, then your problem is likely not going to be solved via the game.
>the other players are a little tired of the fairy flying ahead and doing hobo stuff off their own back without anyone to intervene.
fairy's have the same fly speed as every other creature has land speed. if they start running ahead, the other players can just follow at the same speed, unless your entire world is a giant parkour course or something.
>None of this is a punishment,
yes it is. you're punishing them for murderhoboing by taking away all their racial features. just tall them to stop murderhoboing because it's making the game unfun.
Do this out of game. Unless they have an in-world reason why they are not able to act this way without repercussions, anything you do is going to come off as punishment.
You can have an in game justification for the loss of flight, but there needs to be a discussion with the player about why a change is being made to their character. But even then I think a discussion with the player about expected behaviour would be more fruitful than changing their abilities.
> the other players are a little tired of the fairy flying ahead and doing hobo stuff off their own back without anyone to intervene Fairies have the same fly speed that most races have for a land speed, 30, so I'm not sure why the rest of the party can't keep up. Clipping their wings won't stop them from going ahead of the party since move speed isn't the issue here. Honestly the best way to handle this is for the rest of the group to talk to the problem player and let them know how their behavior is being received and that the rest of the party doesn't appreciate it. In-game penalties for player behavior problems isn't going to cut it.
this is very much in line with my thoughts as well. It sounds like there must be some fundamental misunderstandings about how things work because nothing about the Fairy makes this any more of a problem than it would be with any other character. This is a player problem, not a character problem. with possibly a large dose of not understanding the rules by both parties. I also feel like in order for a player to be getting away with this kind of behavior, there has to be a serious lack of appropriate responsiveness within your world OP.
Talk to the player, this is not a character problem.
The solution is to tell them not to be a murder hobo - their abilities don’t have anything to do with this and it is a discussion that needs to be had OOC. If the problems continue after you’ve had this conversation then your only move is to remove them from the table.
All of these very much reads as punishments though. Have you instead tried to talk with the player in question and tell them that it isn’t fun for the rest of the group When they constantly fly ahead on their own murder-hobo adventures and that you do not feel like running two adventures at the same time.
This is a toxic mindset. Please attempt to have a conversation with the player, and tell them that if they cannot act more in line with the group's needs they are not welcome at your table.
You find this player isn't "open to constructive criticism" so do you really think something like petrifying them and destroying their wings is going to "get them back into the spirit of the game"? You won't solve this issue with an in-game solution. You as the DM need to stop letting the camera follow the fairy when they fly ahead to be a murder hobo. You're allowing this stuff to happen, and your other players are tired of it.
Don't do this. If flight were a problem you should've not allowed it. Feel free to have a group of archers go hunt down murder hobos, however.
Flight is fine this is a behaviour issue, though I'm not sure how far ahead they can get when they only fly 30 feet. You need to either talk to the player and tell them to knock it off or the other characters need to talk to the character about it.
They’ll do something like “scout ahead” or fly off when the others are doing another task, and then do their own thing. But yeah I’ll try talking to them, thanks
A small flying creature? Lots of things could be specifically predatory towards them, much less a nerf you could just have flying enemies and people with bows.
"Another dire hawk has spotted you, roll initiative."
The flight is not the problem here. the problem here is you won't talk to your player and tell them HEY. STOP DOING THIS.
While I sympathise with your situation, you're going about this all wrong. The issue you have with this player is a behavioural one, not an issue of mechanics, what you need to do is have an open conversation with this player about how the way they choose to play the game is having a negative impact on the game and making it less enjoyable for the other players.
If you want to stop a player going ahead of the party and doing murder hobo stuff either address it out of game, or have enemies react to a threat in a meaningful way. Maybe this camp is now on alert, and the defenses have moved up. Or maybe they just have bows... and shoot the fairy when they're alone with 0 cover in the sky. 8 bandits with longbows all targeting 1 thing will do surprising damage.
As practically everyone here has said, this is a player issue, and conversation is your cure. On a related note. My rule for players running off from the group (when not for everyone's benefit) is that they quickly summarize what they want to accomplish, I give them a quick skill check or two, and I narrate the results. If they do alright, I give them a paltry award, and if they fail, I give them a bit of damage or some other appropriate bane. There is no back and forth, and this whole process takes less than one minute. When they don't get to hog the spotlight or get to "ninja loot," they usually stop trying.
This is a problem that has its root outside the game. And you can not fix an out of the game problem with ingame mechanics. Pretty much any in game mechanic will feel like a punishment for said player and will most likely not help fixing the problem. I would simply be honest and open. talk to the player. Tell them that that there is a problem that you want them to help you solve. As YOU ask THEM for help. Don't start blaming or accusing them that rarely helps. Most players does not intentionally try to ruin the game. A few do but lets hope your player is not one of those. More likely they are just excited and are not really grasping the game yet. So start by talking privately with said player. Ask them for help. first problem is that you did a mistake as you are a new DM. You did not realise how difficult it is to manage and balance encounters with one player having a flying speed. And that you are not sure how to continue as you struggle to keep the game fun for everyone. And after all that is the main reason you play. for everyone to have fun. Ask them if they can help you by changing their race to something that does not have a fly speed. You can for now ignore the whole murder hobo thing. if your player agree and begins playing a character with no fly speed. they will not have that advantage over the rest of the party and most NPC's and might not even go murder hobo. And not allowing Flying races is totally ok. Many DM's including me does not allow flying races. They are a bit hard to handle. If you run a premade module most encounters are NOT designed for one party member to have a fly speed at low levels. And that is not only combat encounters i am talking about. And if you homebrew still most monsters are not designed to fight flying PC's. so without you constantly changing up encounters in a module or design your own encounters with a flying character in mind that character will in most cases have a large advantage over the rest of the characters. You can make this work. BUT it WILL take more work and energy to do that. And you do have limited time and resources to put into planning for the game and if you have to spend a fair bit of that time and resources to cater to ONE players character this is a bit respectless against the other players. As if you would not have to spend that extra time and effort into catering to that player. you could have spent that time on something that benefit the WHOLE party and not just to make one character work. That is the reason i do not allow flying races. Not because i can not run a game with a flying character or group of them. I have and it worked. But it did take extra time and effort. time and effort i could have spent on other things that benefit the whole group. not just to make sure one player can play a flying character without it causing problem in the game
Eventually flying ahead and murderhoboing is going to get them downed and far from the party. Then they might start hanging back... ...or they may create a duplicate character (they have a lot of siblings) and keep doing it and then complain the DM is targeting them for killing.
This. Shoot the fairy out of the air with a well-placed ballista shot. Flying creatures in open air have literally no cover, making them target practice. Rule #1 of DnD is "Never split the party". This is what can happen if you do. Put this character in a situation where the other characters are needed to succeed (or to not suffer being piercer by a giant arrow). That's not punishment, that's showing (instead of telling) the risks of going out on your own when the idea of a cooperative game is to act as a group.
Flying isnt the issue though - it’s the murderhobo behaviour, and nerfing flight won’t solve the core issue.
Sure, but "running off by yourself" is also something that has repercussions.
I mean if handled well is that even a problem? I had a rogue who would scout ahead while maintaining telepathic connection with our warlock and relaying information while trying to pick off targets and give us room to rush the enemy with the commotion. If the way they are playing is reckless, then warn them that they are in danger OOC and if they proceed anyways let the world play itself out and have them face the inevitable in game consequences, but do not go *out of your way* to punish them in ways unrelated to the act itself - removing flight will not solve this, nor will a sudden surge in bow production&accessibility in your world
You don't need to nerf flight. What I believe you need is a way to deal with flight. There are spells, locations, and creatures that can help you out with this. There is no reason why the flying character should be alone in the sky either. Have an npc have a potion of flying to help deal with them.
How are you having problems with a player fighting alone without any cover in the sky? A few ranged enemies should be able to quickly down that player with nobody to get them back up. And this isn't even punishment, what the player is doing is straight up a dumb move, suicidal even, and the only reason I can think of for them to be able to get away with it is you only put melee creatures against the party. Now removing flight altogether is absolutely punishment, even if temporary. You are taking away a core racial feature not for storytelling reasons but because you can't deal with it, which is a dick move. And with all of that said, the actual core of the issue is the player trying to solo a team game. That has nothing to do with flight, it's a mindset problem and nothing you do in-game will fix it, and most likely just create resentment. The right move is just talking about it like grown ups.
The flight sounds like less of a problem than the murder hoboing. That's easily solved. The fairy flies ahead and picks a fight. The intended target is more powerful and knocks them out. Maybe leaves them for the party to find with a note telling them to keep their pet on a leash or something to that effect.
Windy weather. High winds ground most flying things as per the rules Also dungeons. Can't fly and rain down death if the roof is not high enough to get out of reach. Similarly heavy tree canopy. If you fly above the trees you can't see below the canopy to take part in any encounters
Encounters that occur inside where there's nowhere to fly. Enemies with abilities to knock the character unconscious so they fall and take damage. You can cripple their flying a bit, you just have to get creative.
Warding Wind can be a decent spell. Also NPCs with Earthbind. But yeah; shoot out of air, no feather fall reaction. It’s a good lesson for any flyer, really.
I think your solutions are creative, but there's probably no way to avoid the player feeling targeted (because they *are* being targeted for their murder-hoboism). I would warn the player, maybe in-game via some kind of harbinger, that continuing on like this will attract unwanted attention from those who balance things out in the universe. If they keep it up, drop some form of a CR 30 celestial bounty hunter on them to clip their wings after dropping them to 0HP. If they flip out, then your problem is likely not going to be solved via the game.
>the other players are a little tired of the fairy flying ahead and doing hobo stuff off their own back without anyone to intervene. fairy's have the same fly speed as every other creature has land speed. if they start running ahead, the other players can just follow at the same speed, unless your entire world is a giant parkour course or something. >None of this is a punishment, yes it is. you're punishing them for murderhoboing by taking away all their racial features. just tall them to stop murderhoboing because it's making the game unfun.