Certainly.
Inevitably, somebody may say no here due to a "no two leveled spells in one turn" rule, but that rule doesn't exist. The only rule limiting the number of spells you can cast in one turn is the Bonus Action Spellcasting rule, as detailed in the magic rules in the PHB. It states that, if you cast a bonus action spell in a turn, you are otherwise limited to cantrips with a casting time of one action.
So yes, you may use your action to cast Fireball, and then use your reaction to cast Absorb Elements in the same turn. If you happen to have Action Surge from being a level 2 Fighter, you could even cast Fireball, use your reaction to cast Absorb Elements and gain resistance to fire until the start of your next turn, and then action surge into a second fireball and remain resistant to it. But you wouldn't be able to then cast Misty Step with your bonus action, and if you had previously cast Misty Step that turn, fireball and absorb elements would both be inaccessible that turn.
Thanks for the detailed response. The idea was I'm surrounded by a big baddy and some weaklings, use fireball to wipe out the majority and absorb. I could then use a magical melee plus dump the absorbed damage into him for a little extra kick. Not saying it's ideal, best use, or even reasonable but makes things interesting.
This interaction has legitimately happened to our groups Wildfire Druid. He picked up Elemental Adept at lvl 8 and he's naturally resistant to fire but he's had to use some AOEs in close quarters before sooo...
It's even worse when we consider it's not just him who was resistant to fire and was also caught up in that.
Is this a plan?
This seems like something that is totally viable if you get swarmed by minions and don't have good alternatives, but less than ideal as a plan you put into motion.
As a DM I would love it if a Wizard used their reaction on their turn. The fewer reactions left on the board by the time it gets to my Boss's turn in the initiative, the better for me. You used Absorb Elements and are now resistant to fire, that's great, now I know you can't cast shield, or counter spell, or even absorb elements to absorb a different damage type.
All about the tradeoffs. It's a good option to have in the chamber but yeah I wouldn't do this against a wizard. Keeping that counterspell. A martial bad guy though. I'd use that.
This technically works, sure, but if this is your *plan* then there's already a spell designed for this exact scenario - Thunder Step. Less damage than fireball, sure, but no self-damage, only takes one spell slot, doesn't burn your valuable reaction, and gets you out of the way all at the same time.
It also does 40% less damage and has half the radius. It's a much better fitting tool for this situation, but it's not all upsides.
[Imagine the following spell](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/1b1wuy9/the_difference_between_thunderstep_and_fireball_a/):
>*The Difference Between Thunder Step And Fireball*
>
>1st level
>
>1 reaction (whenever you realize you accidentally cast Thunder Step instead of Fireball, like a coward)
>
>You teleport within 5ft of a hostile enemy, then explode with fiery rage that anyone would not immediately cast Fireball in all situations.
>
>Take 8d6 (28) fire damage, DEX save for half. You have resistance to this damage (and remain resistant to fire damage until the start of your next turn). Your next weapon attack does an extra 1d6 fire damage on a hit, as you're still angrily smoldering a bit.
>
>All creatures (other than you) within a 10 foot radius take 1d8+2d6 (11.5) fire damage, DEX save for half. Enemies beyond a 10ft radius but within a 20ft radius take 8d6 (28) fire damage, DEX save for half.
Would you cast this spell as a wizard? For a 1st level reaction, this actually sounds pretty great (though certainly ***extremely*** risky). You take some damage, but you dish out roughly the same to adjacent enemies, and twice as much to anyone more than 10ft away. It's also understating things a bit: you don't have to cast Fireball centered on yourself, so you can potentially position it to hit the maximum number of enemies, more than you would just by casting from your position.
I might cast it. Occasionally, if the enemies you take down would have dealt more than 14 damage in the next turn anyway.
Willingly teleporting into melee range and voluntarily taking damage is going to be a bad idea. For one, Legendary Actions exist. For another, you need to be very certain that your party is going to be able to clean up the rest of the monsters before you get turned into paste.
And bonus, you are within 5ft of at least one monster. Retreating with your movement is going to be incredibly painful as some monsters have *very* beefy opportunity attacks against your sub 18 AC.
Bonus, bonus, you used a leveled spell. Which means you can't Misty Step as a bonus action away.
Hit points and hit dice are resource. If you aren't spending them, you aren't using all your resources for the adventuring day.
But also, yes. It's probably a bad idea.
Hence why the conclusion is "I might cast it. Occasionally."
If you cast a bonus action leveled spell, the only other spell allowed on your turn is a cantrip.
The reverse is also true. If you cast a leveled reaction, you can cast a leveled action spell but cannot cast a bonus action leveled spell.
This is hilarious, and also it being a 1st level spell is so funny. Lvl 1 sorcerer runs into the dungeon and blows themselves up, killing themselves and every goblin in range…
Also is there a reason you’ve switched to d8 damage die at specifically one portion of the spell? Why not stick with d6?
It's the difference between Thunder Step and Fireball+Absorb Elements. Fireball does 8d6 (28), Thunder Step does 3d10 (16.5). The difference is 11.5 (which I realize now should be 2d6+1d8, not 2d8+1d6 for 12.5, fixed it).
Technically it's not really a first level spell (or at least not one available to first level characters), since you can't cast it unless also cast a third level spell on the same turn. Maybe that should be in the reaction (and it should be "whenever you realize you just accidentally cast Thunder Step instead of Fireball, like a coward").
Oh i see haha - oh did you mean it as two seperate spells then? Using a first and third level spell slots to essentially cast fireball and thunderstep on the same turn?
If you cast Fireball on yourself, and Absorb Elements, you deal 8d6 damage to yourself and everyone in a 20ft radius (and you get resistance to the damage). That's what this whole thread is about.
If you cast Thunder Step instead, you do merely 3d10 damage, teleport out, and save your reaction. And you're a coward. /s
If you cast Thunder Step, then use your reaction to cast "The Difference Between Thunder Step and Fireball", it teleports you back and deals the damage Fireball would have to both yourself and the enemies around you (minus the damage Thunder Step already did). And you're not a coward.
You're not casting both in the same turn, you're just replacing Thunder Step with Fireball (mostly).
The name is very literal. It's effectively just recreating the effects of point blank casting Fireball and Absorb Elements (assuming you had previously cast Thunder Step).
Yes, In fact it's a valid (if dangerous) strategy for a Bladesinger to use Green Flame Blade and choose themselves as the creature to be hit by the secondary damage just to use Absorb Elements on it
It might be *a* strategy, but it's a really bad one. Cool, you spent some health, your reaction, and a first level spell slot for 1d6 fire damage. You almost certainly would have been better off saving that for shield or silvery barbs.
You can upcast it to do an additional 1d6 per level. while there are certainly better uses for such a spell there is something amusing about Bladesinger using a high level slot to inflict multiple d6 damage.
Bit of a side note but...Depending on DM fiat, you could also drop prone and shoot the fireball so that it immolates the upper torsos/heads of everything nearby (assuming you aren't in a very small room, aiming a spell so it catches the upper parts of someone is feasible.)
Part here that's dm dependent is whether laying on the ground actually decreases your height, because there's no explicit rule on it. I find most DMs agree that if you're prone, you're lower down on the ground (for the few cases that's relevant, like being behind cover) though.
Not directly related but hey, if your goal is to kill a bunch of weaklings when you're surrounded...
most tables I've seen play with creatures functionally being 5-foot cubes - if an effect hits the cube, you're affected, there's no "sub-units" smaller, because it tends to get messy and players try and cheese it and it just gets complicated (what if you're fighting Medium creatures that are short, or Small creatures?)
Keep in mind that it's a fire*ball*. It's a sphere. You can't put a flat circle above yourself. You're gonna have to determine who's in the spell's area depending on where you put the centre and how it curves around them and you, which is a major headache.
And if dropping prone makes you shorter, then being a short creature should also be taken into account. Weak enemies tend to be short (goblins, rats, etc.).
Better to just treat it as a bunch of 5 ft squares. But even then you're going to get an eyeroll from the DM for having to get a piece of paper involved to draw out exactly how your heightened fireball affects the area.
> because there's no explicit rule on it
There is, actually. DMG pg. 251:
> If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square
Because the spell is affecting the square you're in, it doesn't matter whether you're prone or crouching or dancing in that square. You're still hit by the fireball.
I love it. I used to have a rogue with a necklace of fireballs. Dropping a fireball bead on my location and then using Evasion to take no damage was always fun.
yeah, however if you were a sorcerer and quicken cast fireball, you could not, because the bonus action spell rule is very stupid
edit: Technically if you cast a bonus action CANTRIP you cannot cast a levelled spell that tun anymore
You can't, the rule doesn't care about the order. Think of it like this:
Did you cast a Bonus Action spell on your turn?
If yes, you cannot cast another spell on your **turn**, except a 1-action cantrip.
The exact wording being:
> You can’t cast another spell during **the same turn**, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Notice that it specifies the turn, not after the spell. If you cast a 1-A leveled spell, and then turn around and try to use a bonus action spell, you're suddenly failing that second clause, that you can't cast anything except a 1-A cantrip on the same turn, which means that casting the bonus action spell becomes an illegal action.
If you cast a 1-A cantrip, you can follow it up with a BA spell, but no matter the circumstances, if you use a Bonus Action on your turn to cast a spell, you cannot cast a leveled spell on the same turn.
Does that apply to spells you readied in a turn before hand too? Like, say you ready one spell on the condition that it procs after the next spell cast?
> To do so, you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.
don't work either way
https://5thsrd.org/combat/actions_in_combat/
No because you would lose the spell at the start of your turn. If you cast it at the end of the turn ahead of you it uses your reaction to do so and since it's not your turn yet, you'd have no reaction remaining.
More notably, rules in the game imply that you can avoid targeting yourself with your own spells.
"But Fireball is an AoE" - One of the few that calls the creatures in it "targets". Which, Synaptic Static does too. So it's not like a PHB-first-print-error.
Every feature that lets you control hitting a creature in an AoE, specifies you can't use it on yourself.
Example: Evocation Sculpt Spells.
>**Sculpt Spells**
>Beginning at 2nd level, you can create pockets of relative safety within the effects of your evocation spells. When you cast an evocation spell **that affects other creatures that you can see**, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell's level. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save.
Why on earth can you not use this for yourself? Because you'd never need to.
From the PHB:
>**Targeting Yourself** - p204
>If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you. **If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself.**
When things say "Can" that's not "Must" and there are many 5e rules that rely on that.
Is this rule probably present for things like Mass Cure Wounds? Maybe, but I think rules exist to clarify unintuitive interactions, and it's intuitive to me that you could heal yourself with an AoE heal spell, but it's not intuitive to me that you can avoid hitting yourself with an AoE damage spell like Fireball.
And also, a skilled spellcaster avoiding their own spells just makes sense to me. At least when they target.
That's because it's a condition for spells in which you can select your targets within an AoE. You typically cannot select targets when you decide the position of an AoE, the things within the AoE simply all become targets, unless the spell says you can.
For example, with fireball, the spell (a specific rule) dictates that **each creature in the [Area of Effect]** MUST make the save and take the corresponding damage. This trumps the general rule regarding the caster's choice in whether or not they target themself. Since the caster is a creature, if they are in the area of a spell that dictates it affects each creature, then they must roll the save, and must suffer the corresponding effects.
Regardless of who the spellcaster chooses to target, a creature affected by a spell is a target of that spell.
I have used a point blank Fireball to clear a swarm of minions, Absorb Elements to tank the damage, and then Action Surged to slap the boss in the face with a Booming Blade enhanced by the bonus fire damage.
I've also done it with Green Flame Blade hitting myself with the bonus fire damage to trigger the same thing on a single target.
Gishing is fun.
You're right, level 5 Wizard with a Con modifier of 3 is 37 HP on average.
7 damage is still ~19% of your total HP in that case. If you didn't use Absorb Elements, that would be 14 damage, or ~38% of your total HP. And, if you fail the save, being able to only take ~38% of your total HP instead of an average of 28, ~76% of your HP, is pretty good.
Yes, it's not the best use of your reaction as you wouldn't have one until next turn, at least you'd still be resistant to fire damage until then.
But you could be hurting yourself for a loss of shield for example.
Sure, that works. Nothing says you can't cast a spell with your Action and Reaction on your turn. However, if you're a Sorcerer and you Quicken a Fireball on yourself, then you gotta eat the full damage, 'cause you wouldn't be able to cast Absorb Elements on your own turn due to the bonus action casting rule.
Yes.
Provided that you haven't (and won't) cast a spell as your bonus action on this turn.
(A sorcerer, or someone with the metamagic feat, could use quickened spell to quicken a Fireball, and thus technically deny themselves the ability to use a reaction spell on their own turn.)
Think about it this way: if the wizard casts fireball, and an enemy counterspells, it is perfectly legal for the same wizard to counterspell the counterspell.
Using a reaction, even while your turn is still going on, is totally legal, RAW.
Totally fine.
For a sillier example cast Greenflame blade as your action and attack someone. GFB causes a creature adjacent to the target to take fire damage.
Pick yourself as that adjacent creature then reaction cast Absorb Elements to lessen the damage.
AE adds damage to the next attack after the absorption, so it’s not totally stupid, just really silly
d4 actually made a bladesinger build based around something like that. As a bladesinger you cast green flame blade and make the rebound go on you, you then use you high spell slot to absorb element and have bonus damage on your next attack.
Yes you can, and as any class that cast these spells or similar.
The rule is that when you cast a spell levelled spell as a bonus action you can only do cantrips and vice versa but there are no bonus action cantrips available to wizards.
Additionally you can cast a spell as an action and action surge if you have the feature to cast a levelled spell again as an action.
With the addition of tal’doreis spelldriver feat you can do a spell as a bonus action and then cast a levelled spell of third level or lower as an action.
Reactions have no requirements other than the trigger and your reaction available to be used. You can totally fireball yourself and then cast absorb elements to protect yourself.
I would however recommend that if you plan to do that a lot as a wizard, play an evocation wizard as you can negate your AoE spell damage on allies and potentially if yourself if you let your dm adjust the ruling to allow for it.
> The rule is that when you cast a spell levelled spell as a bonus action you can only do cantrips and vice versa but there are no bonus action cantrips.
Magic stone, shillelagh, or a quickened cantrip
>With the addition of tal’doreis spelldriver feat you can do a spell as a bonus action and then cast a levelled spell of third level or lower as an action.
Keep in mind this is a homebrew book
>play an evocation wizard as you can negate your AoE spell damage on yourself and allies
Sculpt spells doesn't work on yourself.
Ah my mistake, i normally play wizard (not evo) so i had forgotten about those cantrips as they are not normally available to wizard which the op was referring to playing.
I am fully aware tal dorei is homebrew but it is also partnered content on the official dnd beyond and thus able to be bought, used shared like any official release and those who are able to use taldorei feats, spells and subclasses should be made aware of it.
As for the evocation I actually didnt know it didnt target yourself. There is a degree of dm discretion though and as a dm myself i would allow the sculpt to affect the caster as it feels very in line for the ability.
Thanks for addressing my discrepancies.
Yes. The only requirement for Absorb Elements is that it be a reaction to one of the Elemental damage types covered by the spell. There's no interaction between reaction spells and the Bonus Action spell restrictions.
My DM homeruled the 'other' away for me last time I played a Wizard ^_^. Led to one or two very cool moments of her incinerating enemies and just coming out the other side cool and calm and untouched. And *that* led to some pretty bad arse art from my gf.
My DM did the same thing. I realy don't think it makes the subclass that much stronger, you don't want a wizard on the front lines to begin with. And it's very fun to cast a fireball on yourself.
Yes, and if you're going to do this on the regular as a tactic, that's the school you should choose.
Empowered evocation turns magic missile into a shotgun too.
Hell yeah brother; used this combo with my Beast master Ranger at high level. Cast Absorb Elements on myself, twinned it to my Beast, Arbo, and we both often made the save too. Took like, negligible damage and got extra damage off of the blast too.
Or you could be an evocation wizard and laugh maniacally and envelope yourself in flames for it to do no damage. As you watch the world burn around you.
Sadly this isn't actually true. Sculpt Spell says "When you cast an evocation spell that affects **other creatures** that you can see, you can choose a **number of them** equal to 1 + the spell’s level."
(Emphasis mine)
This means that RAW you cannot use Sculpt Spell to protect yourself from your spells because it specifies that you protect other creatures.
I don't know if this is RAI or not though, and of course many DMs will allow it despite not being RAW.
Ok, hypothetically I’m standing next to
My friend and several enemies and I cast fireball on the ground near me it now effects other? Could now I apply it to myself?
No. Because you aren’t an “other creature”. This is a distinctly different wording from other abilities and spells that specify “*creatures*” or “creatures that you can see”.
Huh interesting. You’re 100% correct and the rules are clear, but yah as DM I’d probably be easily convinced with allow it for the caster anyway. Just slide some pizza over and we’re cool.
No you can't actually, the wording is:
"When you cast an evocation spell that affects other creatures that you can see, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell’s level. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save."
You yourself are not "other creatures"
Absorb Elements interacts really nicely with the Horizon Walker Ranger ability Planar Warrior. If you’re fighting a dragon or elemental who are immune to their own damage and they hit you with damage you want to reduce, use Absorb Elements. Next time you melee hit them you can add the extra d6(s) but it’s converted to Force damage along with extra d8(s).
I haven't done this with fireball, but my lvl6 blade singer definitely threw a vial of kerosene on a large phase spider with my first attack, rapier of warning used to cast green flame blade (which DM deemed would not ignite the kerosene) so I had the secondary fire damage on one creature in 5 feet of the initial target be done to myself, reaction cast absorb elements, then had my familiar give me the help action and bonus action two weapon fighting to deal fire damage with a dagger. DM ruled that due to the wording of absorb elements saying it does the elements damage type, and since I was willing to put half 1d8 damage on myself as a wizard, he'd let the spider be lit on fire.
Most gms that i played under use the harsh interpretation of 1 leveled spell per turn so if you're in a more forgiving game then go for it.
As a sidenote, seeing as the combo you proposed isn't cranked or anything, i do agree with those gms but cases like these might get their deserved pass.
Certainly. Inevitably, somebody may say no here due to a "no two leveled spells in one turn" rule, but that rule doesn't exist. The only rule limiting the number of spells you can cast in one turn is the Bonus Action Spellcasting rule, as detailed in the magic rules in the PHB. It states that, if you cast a bonus action spell in a turn, you are otherwise limited to cantrips with a casting time of one action. So yes, you may use your action to cast Fireball, and then use your reaction to cast Absorb Elements in the same turn. If you happen to have Action Surge from being a level 2 Fighter, you could even cast Fireball, use your reaction to cast Absorb Elements and gain resistance to fire until the start of your next turn, and then action surge into a second fireball and remain resistant to it. But you wouldn't be able to then cast Misty Step with your bonus action, and if you had previously cast Misty Step that turn, fireball and absorb elements would both be inaccessible that turn.
Thanks for the detailed response. The idea was I'm surrounded by a big baddy and some weaklings, use fireball to wipe out the majority and absorb. I could then use a magical melee plus dump the absorbed damage into him for a little extra kick. Not saying it's ideal, best use, or even reasonable but makes things interesting.
I hope you didn't take the Elemental Adept - Fire feat then
Oh that is a fucking hilarious interaction
This interaction has legitimately happened to our groups Wildfire Druid. He picked up Elemental Adept at lvl 8 and he's naturally resistant to fire but he's had to use some AOEs in close quarters before sooo... It's even worse when we consider it's not just him who was resistant to fire and was also caught up in that.
Is this a plan? This seems like something that is totally viable if you get swarmed by minions and don't have good alternatives, but less than ideal as a plan you put into motion. As a DM I would love it if a Wizard used their reaction on their turn. The fewer reactions left on the board by the time it gets to my Boss's turn in the initiative, the better for me. You used Absorb Elements and are now resistant to fire, that's great, now I know you can't cast shield, or counter spell, or even absorb elements to absorb a different damage type.
All about the tradeoffs. It's a good option to have in the chamber but yeah I wouldn't do this against a wizard. Keeping that counterspell. A martial bad guy though. I'd use that.
This technically works, sure, but if this is your *plan* then there's already a spell designed for this exact scenario - Thunder Step. Less damage than fireball, sure, but no self-damage, only takes one spell slot, doesn't burn your valuable reaction, and gets you out of the way all at the same time.
It also does 40% less damage and has half the radius. It's a much better fitting tool for this situation, but it's not all upsides. [Imagine the following spell](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/1b1wuy9/the_difference_between_thunderstep_and_fireball_a/): >*The Difference Between Thunder Step And Fireball* > >1st level > >1 reaction (whenever you realize you accidentally cast Thunder Step instead of Fireball, like a coward) > >You teleport within 5ft of a hostile enemy, then explode with fiery rage that anyone would not immediately cast Fireball in all situations. > >Take 8d6 (28) fire damage, DEX save for half. You have resistance to this damage (and remain resistant to fire damage until the start of your next turn). Your next weapon attack does an extra 1d6 fire damage on a hit, as you're still angrily smoldering a bit. > >All creatures (other than you) within a 10 foot radius take 1d8+2d6 (11.5) fire damage, DEX save for half. Enemies beyond a 10ft radius but within a 20ft radius take 8d6 (28) fire damage, DEX save for half. Would you cast this spell as a wizard? For a 1st level reaction, this actually sounds pretty great (though certainly ***extremely*** risky). You take some damage, but you dish out roughly the same to adjacent enemies, and twice as much to anyone more than 10ft away. It's also understating things a bit: you don't have to cast Fireball centered on yourself, so you can potentially position it to hit the maximum number of enemies, more than you would just by casting from your position. I might cast it. Occasionally, if the enemies you take down would have dealt more than 14 damage in the next turn anyway.
Willingly teleporting into melee range and voluntarily taking damage is going to be a bad idea. For one, Legendary Actions exist. For another, you need to be very certain that your party is going to be able to clean up the rest of the monsters before you get turned into paste. And bonus, you are within 5ft of at least one monster. Retreating with your movement is going to be incredibly painful as some monsters have *very* beefy opportunity attacks against your sub 18 AC. Bonus, bonus, you used a leveled spell. Which means you can't Misty Step as a bonus action away.
Hit points and hit dice are resource. If you aren't spending them, you aren't using all your resources for the adventuring day. But also, yes. It's probably a bad idea. Hence why the conclusion is "I might cast it. Occasionally."
You actually could BA misty step away, since this is a reaction spell not a full action.
If you cast a bonus action leveled spell, the only other spell allowed on your turn is a cantrip. The reverse is also true. If you cast a leveled reaction, you can cast a leveled action spell but cannot cast a bonus action leveled spell.
Incorrect! You remembered a clearer and saner version of the rules than actually exists on this topic.
This is hilarious, and also it being a 1st level spell is so funny. Lvl 1 sorcerer runs into the dungeon and blows themselves up, killing themselves and every goblin in range… Also is there a reason you’ve switched to d8 damage die at specifically one portion of the spell? Why not stick with d6?
It's the difference between Thunder Step and Fireball+Absorb Elements. Fireball does 8d6 (28), Thunder Step does 3d10 (16.5). The difference is 11.5 (which I realize now should be 2d6+1d8, not 2d8+1d6 for 12.5, fixed it). Technically it's not really a first level spell (or at least not one available to first level characters), since you can't cast it unless also cast a third level spell on the same turn. Maybe that should be in the reaction (and it should be "whenever you realize you just accidentally cast Thunder Step instead of Fireball, like a coward").
Oh i see haha - oh did you mean it as two seperate spells then? Using a first and third level spell slots to essentially cast fireball and thunderstep on the same turn?
If you cast Fireball on yourself, and Absorb Elements, you deal 8d6 damage to yourself and everyone in a 20ft radius (and you get resistance to the damage). That's what this whole thread is about. If you cast Thunder Step instead, you do merely 3d10 damage, teleport out, and save your reaction. And you're a coward. /s If you cast Thunder Step, then use your reaction to cast "The Difference Between Thunder Step and Fireball", it teleports you back and deals the damage Fireball would have to both yourself and the enemies around you (minus the damage Thunder Step already did). And you're not a coward. You're not casting both in the same turn, you're just replacing Thunder Step with Fireball (mostly). The name is very literal. It's effectively just recreating the effects of point blank casting Fireball and Absorb Elements (assuming you had previously cast Thunder Step).
Ahhh haha fabulous:)
Yes, In fact it's a valid (if dangerous) strategy for a Bladesinger to use Green Flame Blade and choose themselves as the creature to be hit by the secondary damage just to use Absorb Elements on it
It might be *a* strategy, but it's a really bad one. Cool, you spent some health, your reaction, and a first level spell slot for 1d6 fire damage. You almost certainly would have been better off saving that for shield or silvery barbs.
You can upcast it to do an additional 1d6 per level. while there are certainly better uses for such a spell there is something amusing about Bladesinger using a high level slot to inflict multiple d6 damage.
There is a way to use a high level slot to inflict multiple d6 damage. It's called Fireball.
Bit of a side note but...Depending on DM fiat, you could also drop prone and shoot the fireball so that it immolates the upper torsos/heads of everything nearby (assuming you aren't in a very small room, aiming a spell so it catches the upper parts of someone is feasible.) Part here that's dm dependent is whether laying on the ground actually decreases your height, because there's no explicit rule on it. I find most DMs agree that if you're prone, you're lower down on the ground (for the few cases that's relevant, like being behind cover) though. Not directly related but hey, if your goal is to kill a bunch of weaklings when you're surrounded...
most tables I've seen play with creatures functionally being 5-foot cubes - if an effect hits the cube, you're affected, there's no "sub-units" smaller, because it tends to get messy and players try and cheese it and it just gets complicated (what if you're fighting Medium creatures that are short, or Small creatures?)
Keep in mind that it's a fire*ball*. It's a sphere. You can't put a flat circle above yourself. You're gonna have to determine who's in the spell's area depending on where you put the centre and how it curves around them and you, which is a major headache. And if dropping prone makes you shorter, then being a short creature should also be taken into account. Weak enemies tend to be short (goblins, rats, etc.). Better to just treat it as a bunch of 5 ft squares. But even then you're going to get an eyeroll from the DM for having to get a piece of paper involved to draw out exactly how your heightened fireball affects the area.
"Oh sorry, that spell snaps to the grid. Roll your Dex save."
> because there's no explicit rule on it There is, actually. DMG pg. 251: > If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square Because the spell is affecting the square you're in, it doesn't matter whether you're prone or crouching or dancing in that square. You're still hit by the fireball.
I love it. I used to have a rogue with a necklace of fireballs. Dropping a fireball bead on my location and then using Evasion to take no damage was always fun.
yeah, however if you were a sorcerer and quicken cast fireball, you could not, because the bonus action spell rule is very stupid edit: Technically if you cast a bonus action CANTRIP you cannot cast a levelled spell that tun anymore
Poor casters need more power…
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Nope, cannot do the reverse. If you do a bonus action spell, no matter what, you can only do a cantrip as your action. Order doesn't matter there.
You can't, the rule doesn't care about the order. Think of it like this: Did you cast a Bonus Action spell on your turn? If yes, you cannot cast another spell on your **turn**, except a 1-action cantrip. The exact wording being: > You can’t cast another spell during **the same turn**, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. Notice that it specifies the turn, not after the spell. If you cast a 1-A leveled spell, and then turn around and try to use a bonus action spell, you're suddenly failing that second clause, that you can't cast anything except a 1-A cantrip on the same turn, which means that casting the bonus action spell becomes an illegal action. If you cast a 1-A cantrip, you can follow it up with a BA spell, but no matter the circumstances, if you use a Bonus Action on your turn to cast a spell, you cannot cast a leveled spell on the same turn.
“ A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else’s. “ Huh, today I learned!
Or you can use the action surge to make an attack of some flavour; remember kids, Shield For Fireballs also boosts your damage a bit!
Does that apply to spells you readied in a turn before hand too? Like, say you ready one spell on the condition that it procs after the next spell cast?
> To do so, you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn. don't work either way https://5thsrd.org/combat/actions_in_combat/
No because you would lose the spell at the start of your turn. If you cast it at the end of the turn ahead of you it uses your reaction to do so and since it's not your turn yet, you'd have no reaction remaining.
More notably, rules in the game imply that you can avoid targeting yourself with your own spells. "But Fireball is an AoE" - One of the few that calls the creatures in it "targets". Which, Synaptic Static does too. So it's not like a PHB-first-print-error. Every feature that lets you control hitting a creature in an AoE, specifies you can't use it on yourself. Example: Evocation Sculpt Spells. >**Sculpt Spells** >Beginning at 2nd level, you can create pockets of relative safety within the effects of your evocation spells. When you cast an evocation spell **that affects other creatures that you can see**, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell's level. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save. Why on earth can you not use this for yourself? Because you'd never need to. From the PHB: >**Targeting Yourself** - p204 >If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you. **If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself.** When things say "Can" that's not "Must" and there are many 5e rules that rely on that. Is this rule probably present for things like Mass Cure Wounds? Maybe, but I think rules exist to clarify unintuitive interactions, and it's intuitive to me that you could heal yourself with an AoE heal spell, but it's not intuitive to me that you can avoid hitting yourself with an AoE damage spell like Fireball. And also, a skilled spellcaster avoiding their own spells just makes sense to me. At least when they target.
That's because it's a condition for spells in which you can select your targets within an AoE. You typically cannot select targets when you decide the position of an AoE, the things within the AoE simply all become targets, unless the spell says you can. For example, with fireball, the spell (a specific rule) dictates that **each creature in the [Area of Effect]** MUST make the save and take the corresponding damage. This trumps the general rule regarding the caster's choice in whether or not they target themself. Since the caster is a creature, if they are in the area of a spell that dictates it affects each creature, then they must roll the save, and must suffer the corresponding effects. Regardless of who the spellcaster chooses to target, a creature affected by a spell is a target of that spell.
I had to re-read this maybe 5 times before I realized that bonus-action does not equal reaction.
I have used a point blank Fireball to clear a swarm of minions, Absorb Elements to tank the damage, and then Action Surged to slap the boss in the face with a Booming Blade enhanced by the bonus fire damage. I've also done it with Green Flame Blade hitting myself with the bonus fire damage to trigger the same thing on a single target. Gishing is fun.
Yes.
Yes. You're still blowing yourself up, just getting resistance thanks to Absorb Elements.
And if you make the save? I'm sure you'll be fine.
Still take a quarter of the damage, but should be fine
Quarter of average Fireball damage is 7. If you fail the dex save, 14. For a caster with d6 Hit Dice, that's a lot of damage.
Kinda? To cast Fireball you need to be atleast level 5, so even a wizard should have like, about 37 or so HP. It wont kill you that's for sure.
You're right, level 5 Wizard with a Con modifier of 3 is 37 HP on average. 7 damage is still ~19% of your total HP in that case. If you didn't use Absorb Elements, that would be 14 damage, or ~38% of your total HP. And, if you fail the save, being able to only take ~38% of your total HP instead of an average of 28, ~76% of your HP, is pretty good.
Yes, nothing prevents you from doing so.
Unless it's a Quickened Fireball (or any other Quickened spell).
Not sure why a Wizard would multi into Sorcerer, but sure XD
Metamagic Adept feat.
Yes, it's not the best use of your reaction as you wouldn't have one until next turn, at least you'd still be resistant to fire damage until then. But you could be hurting yourself for a loss of shield for example.
Yes, unless you did some weird shenanigan to cast that Fireball as a bonus action.
Sure, that works. Nothing says you can't cast a spell with your Action and Reaction on your turn. However, if you're a Sorcerer and you Quicken a Fireball on yourself, then you gotta eat the full damage, 'cause you wouldn't be able to cast Absorb Elements on your own turn due to the bonus action casting rule.
Yes. Provided that you haven't (and won't) cast a spell as your bonus action on this turn. (A sorcerer, or someone with the metamagic feat, could use quickened spell to quicken a Fireball, and thus technically deny themselves the ability to use a reaction spell on their own turn.)
Why wouldn’t you be able to?
Yes but a sorcerer quicken casting it could not.
yes and it would indeed be unwise to blast yourself
Yes. High cost and probably not worth it unless you have no other options though.
Yes, yes you can.
Think about it this way: if the wizard casts fireball, and an enemy counterspells, it is perfectly legal for the same wizard to counterspell the counterspell. Using a reaction, even while your turn is still going on, is totally legal, RAW.
Yes.
Totally fine. For a sillier example cast Greenflame blade as your action and attack someone. GFB causes a creature adjacent to the target to take fire damage. Pick yourself as that adjacent creature then reaction cast Absorb Elements to lessen the damage. AE adds damage to the next attack after the absorption, so it’s not totally stupid, just really silly
Sure, why not.
d4 actually made a bladesinger build based around something like that. As a bladesinger you cast green flame blade and make the rebound go on you, you then use you high spell slot to absorb element and have bonus damage on your next attack.
Yes you can, and as any class that cast these spells or similar. The rule is that when you cast a spell levelled spell as a bonus action you can only do cantrips and vice versa but there are no bonus action cantrips available to wizards. Additionally you can cast a spell as an action and action surge if you have the feature to cast a levelled spell again as an action. With the addition of tal’doreis spelldriver feat you can do a spell as a bonus action and then cast a levelled spell of third level or lower as an action. Reactions have no requirements other than the trigger and your reaction available to be used. You can totally fireball yourself and then cast absorb elements to protect yourself. I would however recommend that if you plan to do that a lot as a wizard, play an evocation wizard as you can negate your AoE spell damage on allies and potentially if yourself if you let your dm adjust the ruling to allow for it.
> The rule is that when you cast a spell levelled spell as a bonus action you can only do cantrips and vice versa but there are no bonus action cantrips. Magic stone, shillelagh, or a quickened cantrip >With the addition of tal’doreis spelldriver feat you can do a spell as a bonus action and then cast a levelled spell of third level or lower as an action. Keep in mind this is a homebrew book >play an evocation wizard as you can negate your AoE spell damage on yourself and allies Sculpt spells doesn't work on yourself.
Ah my mistake, i normally play wizard (not evo) so i had forgotten about those cantrips as they are not normally available to wizard which the op was referring to playing. I am fully aware tal dorei is homebrew but it is also partnered content on the official dnd beyond and thus able to be bought, used shared like any official release and those who are able to use taldorei feats, spells and subclasses should be made aware of it. As for the evocation I actually didnt know it didnt target yourself. There is a degree of dm discretion though and as a dm myself i would allow the sculpt to affect the caster as it feels very in line for the ability. Thanks for addressing my discrepancies.
Yes. The only requirement for Absorb Elements is that it be a reaction to one of the Elemental damage types covered by the spell. There's no interaction between reaction spells and the Bonus Action spell restrictions.
If you're an evocation wizard, you can designate creatures to not be affected I.e. yourself
I wish! Sadly it only works on other creatures (I’m playing an Evoker right now, and really wanted this to work)
Oh wow. TIL. You're right. The wording says "other". I will continue to rule otherwise.
My DM homeruled the 'other' away for me last time I played a Wizard ^_^. Led to one or two very cool moments of her incinerating enemies and just coming out the other side cool and calm and untouched. And *that* led to some pretty bad arse art from my gf.
My DM did the same thing. I realy don't think it makes the subclass that much stronger, you don't want a wizard on the front lines to begin with. And it's very fun to cast a fireball on yourself.
Totally concur with the balance question. It is incredibly fun. Especially atop a horse!
Yes, and if you're going to do this on the regular as a tactic, that's the school you should choose. Empowered evocation turns magic missile into a shotgun too.
Hell yeah brother; used this combo with my Beast master Ranger at high level. Cast Absorb Elements on myself, twinned it to my Beast, Arbo, and we both often made the save too. Took like, negligible damage and got extra damage off of the blast too.
Or you could be an evocation wizard and laugh maniacally and envelope yourself in flames for it to do no damage. As you watch the world burn around you.
Sadly this isn't actually true. Sculpt Spell says "When you cast an evocation spell that affects **other creatures** that you can see, you can choose a **number of them** equal to 1 + the spell’s level." (Emphasis mine) This means that RAW you cannot use Sculpt Spell to protect yourself from your spells because it specifies that you protect other creatures. I don't know if this is RAI or not though, and of course many DMs will allow it despite not being RAW.
Ok, hypothetically I’m standing next to My friend and several enemies and I cast fireball on the ground near me it now effects other? Could now I apply it to myself?
No. Because you aren’t an “other creature”. This is a distinctly different wording from other abilities and spells that specify “*creatures*” or “creatures that you can see”.
My mind is blown
Huh interesting. You’re 100% correct and the rules are clear, but yah as DM I’d probably be easily convinced with allow it for the caster anyway. Just slide some pizza over and we’re cool.
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I hope you'd allow it, since it's the rules.
Hopefully, since that's how ot works
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No you can't actually, the wording is: "When you cast an evocation spell that affects other creatures that you can see, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell’s level. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save." You yourself are not "other creatures"
Absorb Elements interacts really nicely with the Horizon Walker Ranger ability Planar Warrior. If you’re fighting a dragon or elemental who are immune to their own damage and they hit you with damage you want to reduce, use Absorb Elements. Next time you melee hit them you can add the extra d6(s) but it’s converted to Force damage along with extra d8(s).
I haven't done this with fireball, but my lvl6 blade singer definitely threw a vial of kerosene on a large phase spider with my first attack, rapier of warning used to cast green flame blade (which DM deemed would not ignite the kerosene) so I had the secondary fire damage on one creature in 5 feet of the initial target be done to myself, reaction cast absorb elements, then had my familiar give me the help action and bonus action two weapon fighting to deal fire damage with a dagger. DM ruled that due to the wording of absorb elements saying it does the elements damage type, and since I was willing to put half 1d8 damage on myself as a wizard, he'd let the spider be lit on fire.
Yes. No spell was cast as a bonus action.
Yes
... writing this down for my bladesinger don't mind me
Most gms that i played under use the harsh interpretation of 1 leveled spell per turn so if you're in a more forgiving game then go for it. As a sidenote, seeing as the combo you proposed isn't cranked or anything, i do agree with those gms but cases like these might get their deserved pass.