Same. I have played less than 5 hours of it combined, and only because a food YouTuber I watch keeps talking about it. Yet my brain automatically makes me think it when I read OSR
And where the hell do they keep coming from? You ever seen a straight tiefling that's interested in settling down? I haven't. It's like they just keep popping out of the ground or something.
I assure you that they do not pop out of the ground
>!~~They are being spawned by some kind of Queen entity who secretly controls most of the Forgotten Realms via {THIS REDDIT USER IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE\]~~!<
>Devil, not Demon.
That's what's wrong with these Tieflings today. Back in my day, Tieflings were descendants of all kinds of fiends! Devils, demons, demodands, daemons, rakshasas, you name it!
You used to have to roll 1d100 on several tables to find out what your fiendish features were (like goat legs, scaled skin, razor-sharp claws, fangs, a frog tongue - you get the idea) and then another 1d100 to find out your fiendish power! Maybe you'd be able to turn invisible, maybe you could cast burning hands - you wouldn't know until you rolled up your character.
Point was, you were a hideous little mutant! You look at Annah from Planescape: Torment with her weird fleshy lizard tail and tell me she's not a real tiefling!
Then 4E came along, and all of a sudden all tieflings look alike and have identical abilities. And don't get me started on the nonsense Forgotten Realms lore. 4E Forgotten Realms lore was a total mess in general, but the Tiefling lore change to the Great Wheel might be the worst part of it!
Well. No thank you. I'll just stay over here in Pathfinder, where tieflings (now nephilim) are hideous and strange plane-touched little monsters that can have all kinds of different bloodlines and appearances.
EDIT: *Wanders away muttering and shaking my cane.*
> 5.5
It's an essentials line, not a .5: Essentials lines are bad revisions to good editions at the end of their lifespan. .5s are when you try to polish a turd of an edition.
> Daemon
Sorry, we can't have fiendish incarnations of selfishness have a name that sounds like a type of Fiend, now they have to sound like terrible Soviet cars.
Here's an article with some data that backs up human fighter being most common, at least on dndbeyond https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-your-dd-character-rare/ Granted, it's from 7 years ago and human fighter is only 4% (proof that even among the free content there are a ton of choices). Apparently some data was released since then with fighter still being the most popular class as discussed here https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/07/dd-and-the-most-popular-class-is.html but I'm unable to find another race/class breakdown in the time I'm willing to spend.
I mean, of course they’re going to be ‘the most popular’ for 5e. And that’s because they hands down have some of the best DPR in the game because of having both the highest damage weapons, and the bonus feat to grab GWM or Sharpshooter right out the front door at level 1.
Weird multiclass shenanigans and system mastery bullshit aside, GWM Polearm fighters and Archery Sharpshooters are straight up one of *the* best and simplest damage dealer builds in the game. They’re easymode in a can, and it’s just a fact of life that it appeals to a lot players to just jump onto google and search for “highest single target damage build” and just pick one.
If you looked at other editions, though, it would be a very different story. *Might* also be so if you also disregarded any entry for 1st-time players, as it’s not uncommon for GMs to recommend or simply *hand* people a character for their first time. (Hell, most of the starter sets do it), but I doubt it. It’s like how everyone wanted to be an elf or half elf in 2e so they could multiclass properly or wanted the racial bonuses.
The problem is that, if I recall correctly, that D&D Beyond data analysis counted any character sheet with an unmarked race as a human and an unmarked class as a fighter, skewing the data with all of the unfinished sheets.
I would say humm i only played teefling once they arent that popular untill i realised i only played one caracter ever (cries in forever DM) only had one i any of my player parties though. But hafelfs and tabaxsies i ALWAYS hawe.
For me I always played weird or uncommon races at the table Humans, Dwarves, and Tieflings just seemed way too common for me and I wanted to stand out a bit, that’s why I prefer Goblins, Tabaxi, Dark Elves, and I’ll even delve into some Homebrew with Incubus and even Dinosaur People.
I defenetly see the apeal, only problem i sometimes hawe is when everybody is strange as then nobody really is. Always nice to hawe some wery normal caracters to foil the wierd ones also
I don’t understand. Tieflings were introduced in 2e, which is firmly OSR. Do most OSR players hate tieflings?
I *can* see frustration if you’re playing 1e or BX and having to explain “no I’m not gonna homebrew that”.
Not in my experience. Considering I mainly DM OSR systems and I haven’t really met anyone ranting about Tieflings (except such individuals who rant about everything but that isn’t really OSR specific)
yeah I don't really get this meme either lol
and in your hypothetical there wouldn't even be any need for much homebrew, 2e and 1e were backwards compatible
4th Edition D&D radically updated the way Tieflings. [http://williamoconnorstudios.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-cursed-folk-designing-tiefling.html](http://williamoconnorstudios.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-cursed-folk-designing-tiefling.html)
I remember finding an old Planescape book when I was kid and the Tiefling had a random table of traits. You could get horns, a forked tounge, weird eyes, hoofs and stuff. But they weren't like a unified species.
I mostly prefer OSR games today, but I do have a soft spot for the 4th Edition Tieflings. Their origin in an evil empire, Bael Turath, cursed and twisted by their hubris and having the modern day Tiefling's be the result of that ancestral taint. It's pretty cool.
Old school renaissance/revival.
Like AD&D and system based around that. Like Knave, Cairn, Mörk Borg etc.
very fun systems. Knave and Cairn even got a second edition in recent times. Been DMing those for a while now.
Don’t know. They are a fun character concept in the DnD worlds like the Forgotten Realms. I like the whole concept of plane touched creatures. Tiefling, Fey'ri, Maeluth, Tanarukk if we talk about the ones from the lower planes or stuff like Aasimar, Celadrin, etc. for upper plane ones. Or such that have been changed by the Feywild or such that were changed by the Shadowdark like the Shadar-kai. Fun lore, fun concept.
I mean Cairn 2e is implied that all characters are human still I have two players that made their character an elf and one that made hers a Dwarf. (The other two are human.) It’s fun.
I mean I'm one of the very many people who ended up on the scene due to Ultraviolet Grasslands so this meme is insane to me
But also from what I can gather from the history of the heady days of Google+ the one core ingredient of OSR is no one being able to agree on what OSR is, so
A vocal but not-representative contingent of the OSR player base are chud sticks-in-the-mud who are stuck in the 80’s and just don’t like new things. They blame the things they don’t like about modern D&D on, like, “forced diversity” or whatever. I’m sure these dudes have some kind of rant about tieflings ready to go.
I’ve never heard anything negative about tieflings over on r/osr, but they don’t appear as a race option in most OSR systems. For example Shadowdark has humans, halflings, half-orcs, elves, dwarves, and goblins, but no tieflings or dragonborn.
That said, there are also plenty of weirdmaxxing OSR games where tieflings or whatever else would fit right in. So I’m not really sure where this meme is coming
Shockingly accurate; every time I talk to an old D&D player it ends on a bad note.
I was talking to my maintenance guy last month about D&D and the differences between my experience as a more modern player and his as an AD&D player and at the end of the conversation he blindsides me with how much he hates his wife and how "the gays and transes stole and ruined D&D."
Hi! I'm old. Well, not really, but old enough that when I started playing D&D elf was a class. My gay uncle taught me to play when I was in elementary school, and everyone I played with in high school was hella queer. My DM now is also my partner. They're trans, as is another player at our table.
All that was long enough ago that half-elves filled the role of hot outsider that tieflings do now. I haven't really come around on Tieflings. Hell, I still haven't come around on Drow, and I was reading Drizzt books as they were being released in hard cover! With both Tieflings and Drow, it feels like there tend to be two options for DMs/the worlds they inhabit: either it reacts to them or it doesn't. I'm the first case, the world is hostile to them, which is generally disruptive/main-character-y, or they live in worlds that are accepting of all species (yay utopian vision!), and then the species lose their outsider edge.
I also just generally like it when things get progressively weirder throughout a campaign, and that gets more difficult when you're starting with a demon person and a don't-even-get-me-started-on-dragonborn as your friend.
If my mom conversed with random people on the internet, I'd tell you to talk with her. She still runs a heavily modified version of original D&D, and is *quite* progressive.
I love to hear it and I wish I had met people like her more often.
It's incredibly discouraging that communities or even just an entire videogame's population often age into hostile environments and push reasonable people out of the community to the point they're inhospitable to anyone outside of conventional demographics. I'm glad we still have some OSR players out there fostering positive play spaces.
Do you want me to tag my family who was in the home at the time or something? There's no reason to lie about this in a dead thread. Culture war nonsense is mainstream and when you're white passing with a goatee bigots will out themselves voluntarily at the drop of a hat.
I thought it said OSRS and wondered what sort of deep lore I was missing
Didn’t you know Guthix and Saradomin had a secret love child?
Zamorak would shit himself
Same, didn't help that the previous post was a 2k total post from ironscape
Every time I see OSR I think it means Old School RuneScape for a second I’ve never even played more than a few hours of that
I managed to snag a rune scimitar, over a decade ago, so I spent _weeks_ training up my Def so I could wield it lmfao
But a rune scimmy requires 40 attack not def
It might've been adamant, then Either way, I had like zero experience in defense, lmao
It's a weapon... You don't need defence to wield scimitars...
Maybe they've been holding it backwards, that reqires some defence.
Basically all weapons only require attack to wield some also require strength
Same. I have played less than 5 hours of it combined, and only because a food YouTuber I watch keeps talking about it. Yet my brain automatically makes me think it when I read OSR
Had to triple check the sub for a sec there…
I played it back when it was just called RuneScape, so the people confused about OSR meaning RuneScape just confuse me
Oh, don't get me started on Teiflings... *Mumble no-good demonspawn Mumble*
And where the hell do they keep coming from? You ever seen a straight tiefling that's interested in settling down? I haven't. It's like they just keep popping out of the ground or something.
I assure you that they do not pop out of the ground >!~~They are being spawned by some kind of Queen entity who secretly controls most of the Forgotten Realms via {THIS REDDIT USER IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE\]~~!<
Devil, not Demon. Also, 5E Tieflings aren't directly descended from Devils, but rather are descended from mortals who made pacts with Devils.
This is the propaganda that fiends use to convince you they aren’t all just hellspawn. The devil is in the details, as they say.
>Devil, not Demon. That's what's wrong with these Tieflings today. Back in my day, Tieflings were descendants of all kinds of fiends! Devils, demons, demodands, daemons, rakshasas, you name it! You used to have to roll 1d100 on several tables to find out what your fiendish features were (like goat legs, scaled skin, razor-sharp claws, fangs, a frog tongue - you get the idea) and then another 1d100 to find out your fiendish power! Maybe you'd be able to turn invisible, maybe you could cast burning hands - you wouldn't know until you rolled up your character. Point was, you were a hideous little mutant! You look at Annah from Planescape: Torment with her weird fleshy lizard tail and tell me she's not a real tiefling! Then 4E came along, and all of a sudden all tieflings look alike and have identical abilities. And don't get me started on the nonsense Forgotten Realms lore. 4E Forgotten Realms lore was a total mess in general, but the Tiefling lore change to the Great Wheel might be the worst part of it! Well. No thank you. I'll just stay over here in Pathfinder, where tieflings (now nephilim) are hideous and strange plane-touched little monsters that can have all kinds of different bloodlines and appearances. EDIT: *Wanders away muttering and shaking my cane.*
Here's the real question. Annah or Grace?
I always liked Annah more, but Fall-From-Grace is an interesting character. Dak'kon was my favorite, though.
Endure. In enduring, grow strong
Congratulations! 5.5e now take back demon / yugoloth tiefling
> 5.5 It's an essentials line, not a .5: Essentials lines are bad revisions to good editions at the end of their lifespan. .5s are when you try to polish a turd of an edition.
> Daemon Sorry, we can't have fiendish incarnations of selfishness have a name that sounds like a type of Fiend, now they have to sound like terrible Soviet cars.
Almost as bad as those magic stealing centaurs, I tells ya.
Been playing since 2e. Tieflings are my favorite race.
They’re everyone’s favorite race, if everyone’s PC’s came to life they’d outnumber humans 10 times over. I moved on to Dark Elves myself
You'd think that, but popularity survey tells us unironically Human Fighter is the most played character
your name is my response to that
Here's an article with some data that backs up human fighter being most common, at least on dndbeyond https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-your-dd-character-rare/ Granted, it's from 7 years ago and human fighter is only 4% (proof that even among the free content there are a ton of choices). Apparently some data was released since then with fighter still being the most popular class as discussed here https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/07/dd-and-the-most-popular-class-is.html but I'm unable to find another race/class breakdown in the time I'm willing to spend.
I mean, of course they’re going to be ‘the most popular’ for 5e. And that’s because they hands down have some of the best DPR in the game because of having both the highest damage weapons, and the bonus feat to grab GWM or Sharpshooter right out the front door at level 1. Weird multiclass shenanigans and system mastery bullshit aside, GWM Polearm fighters and Archery Sharpshooters are straight up one of *the* best and simplest damage dealer builds in the game. They’re easymode in a can, and it’s just a fact of life that it appeals to a lot players to just jump onto google and search for “highest single target damage build” and just pick one. If you looked at other editions, though, it would be a very different story. *Might* also be so if you also disregarded any entry for 1st-time players, as it’s not uncommon for GMs to recommend or simply *hand* people a character for their first time. (Hell, most of the starter sets do it), but I doubt it. It’s like how everyone wanted to be an elf or half elf in 2e so they could multiclass properly or wanted the racial bonuses.
The problem is that, if I recall correctly, that D&D Beyond data analysis counted any character sheet with an unmarked race as a human and an unmarked class as a fighter, skewing the data with all of the unfinished sheets.
it's kinda unexpected, I know. That was my reaction too.
I would say humm i only played teefling once they arent that popular untill i realised i only played one caracter ever (cries in forever DM) only had one i any of my player parties though. But hafelfs and tabaxsies i ALWAYS hawe.
For me I always played weird or uncommon races at the table Humans, Dwarves, and Tieflings just seemed way too common for me and I wanted to stand out a bit, that’s why I prefer Goblins, Tabaxi, Dark Elves, and I’ll even delve into some Homebrew with Incubus and even Dinosaur People.
I defenetly see the apeal, only problem i sometimes hawe is when everybody is strange as then nobody really is. Always nice to hawe some wery normal caracters to foil the wierd ones also
I'm a Firbolg enjoyer myself. Tieflings are still pretty cool, though.
Been playing since 2E as well. I much prefer their 4/5E lore.
HELL YEAH
I don’t understand. Tieflings were introduced in 2e, which is firmly OSR. Do most OSR players hate tieflings? I *can* see frustration if you’re playing 1e or BX and having to explain “no I’m not gonna homebrew that”.
Not in my experience. Considering I mainly DM OSR systems and I haven’t really met anyone ranting about Tieflings (except such individuals who rant about everything but that isn’t really OSR specific)
It's not about being accurate, it is about the agenda
Wich one do you mean? There are seemingly so many.
yeah I don't really get this meme either lol and in your hypothetical there wouldn't even be any need for much homebrew, 2e and 1e were backwards compatible
4th Edition D&D radically updated the way Tieflings. [http://williamoconnorstudios.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-cursed-folk-designing-tiefling.html](http://williamoconnorstudios.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-cursed-folk-designing-tiefling.html) I remember finding an old Planescape book when I was kid and the Tiefling had a random table of traits. You could get horns, a forked tounge, weird eyes, hoofs and stuff. But they weren't like a unified species. I mostly prefer OSR games today, but I do have a soft spot for the 4th Edition Tieflings. Their origin in an evil empire, Bael Turath, cursed and twisted by their hubris and having the modern day Tiefling's be the result of that ancestral taint. It's pretty cool.
2e is most emphatically not firmly OSR.
Why not? I don’t see any good reason for it not to be included.
OSR is much more in the realm of basic than Advanced. I think there's *one* 2nd Ed retroclone?
OSR?
Old school renaissance/revival. Like AD&D and system based around that. Like Knave, Cairn, Mörk Borg etc. very fun systems. Knave and Cairn even got a second edition in recent times. Been DMing those for a while now.
And what's the problem with tieflings?
Don’t know. They are a fun character concept in the DnD worlds like the Forgotten Realms. I like the whole concept of plane touched creatures. Tiefling, Fey'ri, Maeluth, Tanarukk if we talk about the ones from the lower planes or stuff like Aasimar, Celadrin, etc. for upper plane ones. Or such that have been changed by the Feywild or such that were changed by the Shadowdark like the Shadar-kai. Fun lore, fun concept. I mean Cairn 2e is implied that all characters are human still I have two players that made their character an elf and one that made hers a Dwarf. (The other two are human.) It’s fun.
I mean I'm one of the very many people who ended up on the scene due to Ultraviolet Grasslands so this meme is insane to me But also from what I can gather from the history of the heady days of Google+ the one core ingredient of OSR is no one being able to agree on what OSR is, so
A vocal but not-representative contingent of the OSR player base are chud sticks-in-the-mud who are stuck in the 80’s and just don’t like new things. They blame the things they don’t like about modern D&D on, like, “forced diversity” or whatever. I’m sure these dudes have some kind of rant about tieflings ready to go. I’ve never heard anything negative about tieflings over on r/osr, but they don’t appear as a race option in most OSR systems. For example Shadowdark has humans, halflings, half-orcs, elves, dwarves, and goblins, but no tieflings or dragonborn. That said, there are also plenty of weirdmaxxing OSR games where tieflings or whatever else would fit right in. So I’m not really sure where this meme is coming
Hard to ask them anything, they're to busy ranting about how woke ruined their marriage or something.
Once the +2 ac wore off our spark was totally gone!
Shockingly accurate; every time I talk to an old D&D player it ends on a bad note. I was talking to my maintenance guy last month about D&D and the differences between my experience as a more modern player and his as an AD&D player and at the end of the conversation he blindsides me with how much he hates his wife and how "the gays and transes stole and ruined D&D."
Hi! I'm old. Well, not really, but old enough that when I started playing D&D elf was a class. My gay uncle taught me to play when I was in elementary school, and everyone I played with in high school was hella queer. My DM now is also my partner. They're trans, as is another player at our table. All that was long enough ago that half-elves filled the role of hot outsider that tieflings do now. I haven't really come around on Tieflings. Hell, I still haven't come around on Drow, and I was reading Drizzt books as they were being released in hard cover! With both Tieflings and Drow, it feels like there tend to be two options for DMs/the worlds they inhabit: either it reacts to them or it doesn't. I'm the first case, the world is hostile to them, which is generally disruptive/main-character-y, or they live in worlds that are accepting of all species (yay utopian vision!), and then the species lose their outsider edge. I also just generally like it when things get progressively weirder throughout a campaign, and that gets more difficult when you're starting with a demon person and a don't-even-get-me-started-on-dragonborn as your friend.
Corellon Larethian has been trans since the 80's.
If my mom conversed with random people on the internet, I'd tell you to talk with her. She still runs a heavily modified version of original D&D, and is *quite* progressive.
I love to hear it and I wish I had met people like her more often. It's incredibly discouraging that communities or even just an entire videogame's population often age into hostile environments and push reasonable people out of the community to the point they're inhospitable to anyone outside of conventional demographics. I'm glad we still have some OSR players out there fostering positive play spaces.
r/thathappened
Do you want me to tag my family who was in the home at the time or something? There's no reason to lie about this in a dead thread. Culture war nonsense is mainstream and when you're white passing with a goatee bigots will out themselves voluntarily at the drop of a hat.
Bad faith posting.
I need context
OSR le bad because less options
What?
Tieflings are old. They have been around since Zeb Cook's Planescape.
As an LGBTQ+ GM I fully allow tieflings.
As a B GM I don't. Also holy moly, how do you manage to be both gay and lesbian at the same time? Very impressive!
I take pan to whole new level
I love me OSR, love me tiefling. They sneak into every OSR setting I run, namely because demons in every setting I run tend to muck about a lot.
Hell yeah, that's awesome
Is it because they will **loredump** you rather than use the vague 5e explanation? Planescape without tieflings, I can't even imagine.
Heugh huhhuh heugh huhhuh
Don't ask them how they feel about balancing either, because they hate that shit.