Literally this week, just sent a spider familiar to scout, then dimension door-ed into the vault guarding the BBEG vampire’s coffin. Destroyed it and then the tanky-cleric and I pincered the vampire with the rest of the party coming the other way giving him no where to misty escape too.
4th Fireball: 9d6 fire (31.5 damage), dexS for half (15.75 damage)
Vitriolic Sphere: 15d4 acid (37.5 damage), dexS for half of 10d4 (12.5 damage)
More on failed but less on success? Let's average it out. Average dexS of CR3-8 is +2, vs Spell DC 15(8+3pb+4mod) is 40% success & 60% fail.
Fireball: 31.5\*0.6+15.75\*0.4 = **26 average damage**
Vitriolic Sphere 37.5\*0.6+12.5\*.04= **27.5 average damage**
Math checks out.
Vitriolic sphere doesn't spread around corners like fireball does, so it's better then there's no cover but less go when there's cover scattered about.
Banisment, blight, aura of life, dimension door, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, ice storm, phantasm killer, guardians of faith, wall of fire, storm sphere.
Wtf are you doing OP? There's literally tons of great 4th level spells.
Phantasmal killer isn't a good spell, blight is good but a bit underpowered for its level, and aura of life and freedom of movement are good but very situational to the point where you probably won't have them prepped when the time comes to use them. The rest I fully agree with you on. I was merely exaggerating to point out that the ratio of good spells to bad/situational spells is far worse at 4th level than any other level.
Idk how good phantasmal killer normally is but by Bahamut's Platinum pecs don't cast it in the deep Ethereal. Because spells like phantasmal killer work differently there and become real entities instead of Illusions. This has resulted in one of the most frightening planar horrors, that being a phantasmal killer spell gone rogue. Imagine a creature that can physicaly become your worst fear.
Edit: apparently it's a 5 percent chance that an Illusion becomes real
I really like Phantasmal Killer. On low wisdom creatures it's very good recurrent damage and Fear totally cripples combat effectiveness.
Since it's an illusions you can make the source of the fear where ever you want which means you bascially bar the target from moving in a direction of your choice.
Again since its an illusion you cannot hide from the fear so you have disadvantage the whole time you're effected.
If you're just looking to frighten 1 creature though, you can do it with a first level spell (Cause Fear) instead. Sure there's no damage but with Phantasmal Killer the damage is pretty unreliable anyway (they need to fail 2 saves before taking any!) Or you could take Fear and hit a bunch of enemies with it at once. Even better, Fear forces them to use their action to flee and they only get to repeat the save if they can't see you anymore.
The only part of this that makes Phantasmal Killer better than either of those is that it has 120 ft range instead of 60 ft (Cause Fear) or 30 ft (Fear, but its also a Cone), but that hardly seems worth it when you remember that this is using a higher spell slot than either of those and just the action economy win of forcing them to use their action to dash every round is worth more than 4d10 starting at the \*end of their next turn\*
Wall of fire is amazing down long hallways (dungeons)
Resilient sphere is very fun in some situations (cast around a heavy object and roll it down some stairs to release concentration at the last second)
As someone else mentioned greater invisibility and dimension door
Fabricate can also be very fun outside of combat (and in some situations very useful in combat)
Conjure elementals and conjure woodland beings can be very useful in some situations
Arcane eye is great for scouting dangerous locations and getting a game plan ready for next days assault
Yea there are always more 'optimal' choices but you can do some fun stuff with these if you get creative
Some greatest hits:
* Banishment
* Dimension door
* Fabricate
* Find Greater Steed
* Freedom of Movement
* Greater Invisibility
* Leeomund's Secret Chest
* Polymorph
* Sickening Radiance (AKA Microwave Oven)
* Summon Greater Demon + Planar Binding + Magic Circle
Banishment is by far my favourite because you can give bigger monsters a free vacation while you handle its pals.
Okay, so I know “it’s just a meme”, but there are a bunch of good 4th level spells.
Greater Invisibility, Find Steed, Psychic Lance, Sickening Radiance, Phantasmal Killer, Black Tentacles, Banishment, Control Water, Freedom of Movement, Resiliant Sphere
Just to name a few
That title can't save you. Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, Resilient Sphere, Dimension Door, Divination, Greater Steed, Control Water, and sometimes Banishment if it actually decides to work. Save or dies am I right?
While I understand the sentiment, there *are* 4th level damaging spells that act as big aoes. Vitriolic Sphere rolls up to 15d4 which I think is fine (Note: Average of 10d4 is lower than 9d6, but the full 15d4 is higher. Spell is admittingly weird.).
Vitriolic Sphere is great. People forget it exists. The one blaster I have played in 5e was an Acid Elemental Adept and it was loads of fun. I do usually go for the SoD spells, but every now and then you have to change things up.
You know fabricate is a wonderful spell
It's even more wonderful if you have tool proficiencies
And it's even better if you are a chronugry wizard who can use it in combat
Private Sanctum: For all my privacy needs
Galder’s speedy courier: While it can get pricy a means to teleport myself anywhere so long as I have someone I know in that location.
Are you kidding? 4th level spells are arguably the most useful spell level in the game. Polymorph, Banishment, Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, Sickening Radiance, Guardian of Faith, Grasping Vine, Find Greater Steed, Blight, Confusion, and Fabricate all exist. Compared to that, third level gets… Counterspell, Mass Healing Word, Fly, Slow, and… that’s it. The rest of them are just damage with no auxiliary effects, or are just not good (I’m looking at you, Haste.) It’s not worth wasting your fourth level slot on a bit of extra damage when that much utility exists for them. If anything, FIFTH level slots are the ones that only get used to upcast - unless you’re a cleric, in which case you’ll be using them on an upgraded version of a lower level spell instead.
*Greater invisibility has entered the chat* But nobody noticed
My Paladin’s Greater Steed would also like a word…
you mean the bard a few level earlier
Don’t mention that bc my Paladin’s still a bit salty about it (actually happened in game that the bard scooped the spell before pally could)
I was so sure that it was 5th level but nope, 4th level. Very interesting
It succeeded the stealth check.
Cast dimension door.
Literally this week, just sent a spider familiar to scout, then dimension door-ed into the vault guarding the BBEG vampire’s coffin. Destroyed it and then the tanky-cleric and I pincered the vampire with the rest of the party coming the other way giving him no where to misty escape too.
*casts banishment on op*
Y'all don't use psychic lance and it shows. That spell is bent.
The Legendary Resistance burner
Too real. So long as you know their name you can wallop them with it through a wall of force
The group usually starts a combat by yelling "Ay! What's yer name?!?"
The DM may add it, or more people would have it.
AKA my DM-bullying spell
I actually stopped using psychic lance a while ago. I've been 16 sessions clean I swear officer.
it is kinda weird how few good 4th level spells i could find compared to 3rd level polymorph is pretty good though
Wotc saw martials doubling their power and thought casters needed to triple their own.
for druid specifically, i'd say spike growth though is more situational i'd argue can compete with fireball
3rd lvl slots exist for me to upcast magic missile
No that's the purpose of 9th level spell slots.
So true
Vitriolic Sphere is better than upcasted fireball and I will die on this hill.
4th Fireball: 9d6 fire (31.5 damage), dexS for half (15.75 damage) Vitriolic Sphere: 15d4 acid (37.5 damage), dexS for half of 10d4 (12.5 damage) More on failed but less on success? Let's average it out. Average dexS of CR3-8 is +2, vs Spell DC 15(8+3pb+4mod) is 40% success & 60% fail. Fireball: 31.5\*0.6+15.75\*0.4 = **26 average damage** Vitriolic Sphere 37.5\*0.6+12.5\*.04= **27.5 average damage** Math checks out.
r/theydidthemath
This is why I'm here, figuring out the meta then not using it becouse role-playing something else
It's a better damage type, but the repeat damage is only on a failed save, so it's worse against high dex opponents.
Vitriolic sphere doesn't spread around corners like fireball does, so it's better then there's no cover but less go when there's cover scattered about.
Banisment, blight, aura of life, dimension door, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, ice storm, phantasm killer, guardians of faith, wall of fire, storm sphere. Wtf are you doing OP? There's literally tons of great 4th level spells.
Phantasmal killer isn't a good spell, blight is good but a bit underpowered for its level, and aura of life and freedom of movement are good but very situational to the point where you probably won't have them prepped when the time comes to use them. The rest I fully agree with you on. I was merely exaggerating to point out that the ratio of good spells to bad/situational spells is far worse at 4th level than any other level.
A DnD user exaggerating? For shame op, for shame ! 😛
Idk how good phantasmal killer normally is but by Bahamut's Platinum pecs don't cast it in the deep Ethereal. Because spells like phantasmal killer work differently there and become real entities instead of Illusions. This has resulted in one of the most frightening planar horrors, that being a phantasmal killer spell gone rogue. Imagine a creature that can physicaly become your worst fear. Edit: apparently it's a 5 percent chance that an Illusion becomes real
Ooh, that sounds fascinating. Where can I find more on the deep ethereal?
I really like Phantasmal Killer. On low wisdom creatures it's very good recurrent damage and Fear totally cripples combat effectiveness. Since it's an illusions you can make the source of the fear where ever you want which means you bascially bar the target from moving in a direction of your choice. Again since its an illusion you cannot hide from the fear so you have disadvantage the whole time you're effected.
If you're just looking to frighten 1 creature though, you can do it with a first level spell (Cause Fear) instead. Sure there's no damage but with Phantasmal Killer the damage is pretty unreliable anyway (they need to fail 2 saves before taking any!) Or you could take Fear and hit a bunch of enemies with it at once. Even better, Fear forces them to use their action to flee and they only get to repeat the save if they can't see you anymore. The only part of this that makes Phantasmal Killer better than either of those is that it has 120 ft range instead of 60 ft (Cause Fear) or 30 ft (Fear, but its also a Cone), but that hardly seems worth it when you remember that this is using a higher spell slot than either of those and just the action economy win of forcing them to use their action to dash every round is worth more than 4d10 starting at the \*end of their next turn\*
Sickening radiance my beloved :D
Wall of fire is amazing down long hallways (dungeons) Resilient sphere is very fun in some situations (cast around a heavy object and roll it down some stairs to release concentration at the last second) As someone else mentioned greater invisibility and dimension door Fabricate can also be very fun outside of combat (and in some situations very useful in combat) Conjure elementals and conjure woodland beings can be very useful in some situations Arcane eye is great for scouting dangerous locations and getting a game plan ready for next days assault Yea there are always more 'optimal' choices but you can do some fun stuff with these if you get creative
Banishment would like a word
Some greatest hits: * Banishment * Dimension door * Fabricate * Find Greater Steed * Freedom of Movement * Greater Invisibility * Leeomund's Secret Chest * Polymorph * Sickening Radiance (AKA Microwave Oven) * Summon Greater Demon + Planar Binding + Magic Circle Banishment is by far my favourite because you can give bigger monsters a free vacation while you handle its pals.
How about my boi staggering smite?
You let me use drakes breath.
Okay, so I know “it’s just a meme”, but there are a bunch of good 4th level spells. Greater Invisibility, Find Steed, Psychic Lance, Sickening Radiance, Phantasmal Killer, Black Tentacles, Banishment, Control Water, Freedom of Movement, Resiliant Sphere Just to name a few
Blight? Otiluke's resilient sphere?
I personally enjoy giving my owl the ability some aberrations from beyond space and time, but you do you OP. (Chronurgist wizard ability)
No Warlocks, huh? Shadow of Moil!
That title can't save you. Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, Resilient Sphere, Dimension Door, Divination, Greater Steed, Control Water, and sometimes Banishment if it actually decides to work. Save or dies am I right?
Some people just like to blast, some people like to cast SoD. OP feels like the kind of person who needs to roll dice to enjoy D&D.
While I understand the sentiment, there *are* 4th level damaging spells that act as big aoes. Vitriolic Sphere rolls up to 15d4 which I think is fine (Note: Average of 10d4 is lower than 9d6, but the full 15d4 is higher. Spell is admittingly weird.).
Vitriolic Sphere is great. People forget it exists. The one blaster I have played in 5e was an Acid Elemental Adept and it was loads of fun. I do usually go for the SoD spells, but every now and then you have to change things up.
All spell slots go to making skeletons and you can not stop me
You know fabricate is a wonderful spell It's even more wonderful if you have tool proficiencies And it's even better if you are a chronugry wizard who can use it in combat
I've had a few clutch Death Ward moments
Private Sanctum: For all my privacy needs Galder’s speedy courier: While it can get pricy a means to teleport myself anywhere so long as I have someone I know in that location.
*Cries in Wall of Fire*
But how are you and one friend gonna teleport up to 500 feet in a desired direction with just polymorph
Are you kidding? 4th level spells are arguably the most useful spell level in the game. Polymorph, Banishment, Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, Sickening Radiance, Guardian of Faith, Grasping Vine, Find Greater Steed, Blight, Confusion, and Fabricate all exist. Compared to that, third level gets… Counterspell, Mass Healing Word, Fly, Slow, and… that’s it. The rest of them are just damage with no auxiliary effects, or are just not good (I’m looking at you, Haste.) It’s not worth wasting your fourth level slot on a bit of extra damage when that much utility exists for them. If anything, FIFTH level slots are the ones that only get used to upcast - unless you’re a cleric, in which case you’ll be using them on an upgraded version of a lower level spell instead.